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"I posted in pt2 as a last comment, I will add it here. These types of discussions are pointless unless entered with a view of listening and not simply preaching, it becomes us v them, and us and them pick out the worst things to highlight leaving the actual issues unanswered. Why is anyone with experience and understanding of the world surprised there are tensions between native British people and immigrants entering the country illegally and being housed in hotels, or Muslims? Protestant and Catholic troubles, Jews and Muslim troubles, not just here all over the world. Why does anyone think this country would or will be different, humans don’t like each other as a rule." There are areas of tension but more positively there are millions of people of different faiths and culture who manage to just get on with life too without hate.. | |||
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"I've only started this thread to say that the 'information' on Wikipedia posted by 50shadesof filth is factually incorrect.. Yes there have been 3395 terrorist related deaths in the UK since 1970 but as the article referred to clearly states.. The majority of them were during the troubles in NI.. Since 2001 it states there has been 100 deaths in the UK caused by terrorism.. Not sure why anyone might want to twist this type of sad statistic at the time..? Perhaps he can answer? " Correct that is how it reads on wiki and then goes on to read: ‘During the 21st century, however, most terrorist incidents in Britain have been linked to Islamic fundamentalism.[1]’ | |||
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"I've only started this thread to say that the 'information' on Wikipedia posted by 50shadesof filth is factually incorrect.. Yes there have been 3395 terrorist related deaths in the UK since 1970 but as the article referred to clearly states.. The majority of them were during the troubles in NI.. Since 2001 it states there has been 100 deaths in the UK caused by terrorism.. Not sure why anyone might want to twist this type of sad statistic at the time..? Perhaps he can answer? Correct that is how it reads on wiki and then goes on to read: ‘During the 21st century, however, most terrorist incidents in Britain have been linked to Islamic fundamentalism.[1]’ " It makes no reference to what you falsely claimed though on the other thread, you stated from 1970 and it states the 'vast majority were during the troubles ' it doesn't mention islam at all in that paragraph.. It's pretty clear in what it says so why deliberately change it..? | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. " You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. | |||
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"I posted in pt2 as a last comment, I will add it here. These types of discussions are pointless unless entered with a view of listening and not simply preaching, it becomes us v them, and us and them pick out the worst things to highlight leaving the actual issues unanswered. Why is anyone with experience and understanding of the world surprised there are tensions between native British people and immigrants entering the country illegally and being housed in hotels, or Muslims? Protestant and Catholic troubles, Jews and Muslim troubles, not just here all over the world. Why does anyone think this country would or will be different, humans don’t like each other as a rule." Probably out of context but why has UK chosen to support Israel’s creation of the largest detention camp since WW2. 2 million people without/restricted food water medical shelter. Sunak Israel ‘ I hope you win’ This is not in the name of self defence nor representative of the majority view ? | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. " I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town | |||
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"I wonder what legitimate concerns the people who vandalised Muslim graves in Burnley were expressing?" Was this before or after the town centre and in particular Barclays Bank got smashed up in support of Palestine? | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town "Then why not just say that.. | |||
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"I wonder what legitimate concerns the people who vandalised Muslim graves in Burnley were expressing? Was this before or after the town centre and in particular Barclays Bank got smashed up in support of Palestine? " Does a branch Barclays bank mean as much to people as graves of their passed loved ones? | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that.."I am now, once you've questioned it. You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it. There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes. | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes. "They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on.. Enjoy if you do.. | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes.
They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on..
Enjoy if you do.."I'm not trawling 'every type of media' 
As I said, open your eyes, it's really easy to find. Or don't, if you don't want to. | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes.
They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on..
Enjoy if you do..
I'm not trawling 'every type of media'
As I said, open your eyes, it's really easy to find. Or don't, if you don't want to."If I see it I say it, you know by now I have and will (unlike some) call out wrongs by whomsoever.. So in relation to what you've clearly mentioned is by one side I do not need nor accept any advice on opening my eyes cheers.. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. " Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm." I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes.
They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on..
Enjoy if you do..
I'm not trawling 'every type of media'
As I said, open your eyes, it's really easy to find. Or don't, if you don't want to.
If I see it I say it, you know by now I have and will (unlike some) call out wrongs by whomsoever..
So in relation to what you've clearly mentioned is by one side I do not need nor accept any advice on opening my eyes cheers.."Usually you do say it as you see it. In this instance, you only seem to have seen one side, like many others tbf. Maybe it's the algorithms, maybe it's selective, or maybe it's because you're only being shown one side. There were a few people on the other thread saying what's happening, being ridiculed by people who don't want to open their eyes, I lumped you in with them. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but it does seem convenient. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October " I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. " Really? How? | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. Really? How?" I'm guessing incitement charges. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. Really? How? I'm guessing incitement charges. " I wouldn't be so sure, he has smartened up over the years and have watched his daily twitter videos to his fans. He mouths off etc etc but then tells everyone not to use violence. Whilst his follows just need a little reminder doesn't exactly order anyone to do anything. Might not stand up in court??? | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. Really? How? I'm guessing incitement charges. I wouldn't be so sure, he has smartened up over the years and have watched his daily twitter videos to his fans. He mouths off etc etc but then tells everyone not to use violence. Whilst his follows just need a little reminder doesn't exactly order anyone to do anything. Might not stand up in court??? " Whilst I agree with you, I wouldn't be so sure on the verdict. | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes.
They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on..
Enjoy if you do..
I'm not trawling 'every type of media'
As I said, open your eyes, it's really easy to find. Or don't, if you don't want to.
If I see it I say it, you know by now I have and will (unlike some) call out wrongs by whomsoever..
So in relation to what you've clearly mentioned is by one side I do not need nor accept any advice on opening my eyes cheers..
Usually you do say it as you see it.
In this instance, you only seem to have seen one side, like many others tbf. Maybe it's the algorithms, maybe it's selective, or maybe it's because you're only being shown one side.
There were a few people on the other thread saying what's happening, being ridiculed by people who don't want to open their eyes, I lumped you in with them. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but it does seem convenient. "Yes but I'm also aware that with something so fast moving and in so many places consecutively plus when other past issues are added in to the debate it's easy to miss something .. I'll add I've said on several threads that there are genuine grievances that some across all cultures have at present in many areas and from speaking to friends and extended family it's not just white people who are not happy with the asylum mess we have, I'm certainly not at all happy.. But the way to address grievances isn't what this is about, it's the mob and all we've seen and it needs dealing with firmly and ditto anyone else who reacts to it by doing the same.. Just seen what went on in Birmingham and the police are dealing with what is being reported as criminal damage by some Muslim men, which is as it should be.. If that's the guy who said it's not the right attacking police etc but a left infiltration I'm standing by that's bollocks .. No worries, cheers for saying that.. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. Really? How? I'm guessing incitement charges. I wouldn't be so sure, he has smartened up over the years and have watched his daily twitter videos to his fans. He mouths off etc etc but then tells everyone not to use violence. Whilst his follows just need a little reminder doesn't exactly order anyone to do anything. Might not stand up in court??? Whilst I agree with you, I wouldn't be so sure on the verdict. " I am the furtherest thing from a Tommy robinson fan but he is entitled to a fair trial like anyone else | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm. I looked at the sentencing for breaking the rules set by him losing his civil case and its up to 2 years. Guess we'll see what happens in October I've a feeling he'll be in prison before then. Really? How? I'm guessing incitement charges. I wouldn't be so sure, he has smartened up over the years and have watched his daily twitter videos to his fans. He mouths off etc etc but then tells everyone not to use violence. Whilst his follows just need a little reminder doesn't exactly order anyone to do anything. Might not stand up in court??? Whilst I agree with you, I wouldn't be so sure on the verdict. I am the furtherest thing from a Tommy robinson fan but he is entitled to a fair trial like anyone else" That doesn't mean he'll get one... I'm waiting with baited breath for his arrest. | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes.
They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on..
Enjoy if you do..
I'm not trawling 'every type of media'
As I said, open your eyes, it's really easy to find. Or don't, if you don't want to.
If I see it I say it, you know by now I have and will (unlike some) call out wrongs by whomsoever..
So in relation to what you've clearly mentioned is by one side I do not need nor accept any advice on opening my eyes cheers..
Usually you do say it as you see it.
In this instance, you only seem to have seen one side, like many others tbf. Maybe it's the algorithms, maybe it's selective, or maybe it's because you're only being shown one side.
There were a few people on the other thread saying what's happening, being ridiculed by people who don't want to open their eyes, I lumped you in with them. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but it does seem convenient.
Yes but I'm also aware that with something so fast moving and in so many places consecutively plus when other past issues are added in to the debate it's easy to miss something ..
I'll add I've said on several threads that there are genuine grievances that some across all cultures have at present in many areas and from speaking to friends and extended family it's not just white people who are not happy with the asylum mess we have, I'm certainly not at all happy..
But the way to address grievances isn't what this is about, it's the mob and all we've seen and it needs dealing with firmly and ditto anyone else who reacts to it by doing the same..
Just seen what went on in Birmingham and the police are dealing with what is being reported as criminal damage by some Muslim men, which is as it should be..
If that's the guy who said it's not the right attacking police etc but a left infiltration I'm standing by that's bollocks ..
No worries, cheers for saying that.."I don't believe there's any infiltration but I also don't believe everyone on the streets is a 'far right thug'. The PM is not helping the situation either. | |||
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"Be fucking ironic if he gets sunburnt.." He coukd get washed out to sea for all I care! | |||
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"I wonder what legitimate concerns the people who vandalised Muslim graves in Burnley were expressing? Was this before or after the town centre and in particular Barclays Bank got smashed up in support of Palestine? " | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes.
They are, I just don't feel the need to trawl every type of media coverage for every area that stuff is going on..
Enjoy if you do..
I'm not trawling 'every type of media'
As I said, open your eyes, it's really easy to find. Or don't, if you don't want to.
If I see it I say it, you know by now I have and will (unlike some) call out wrongs by whomsoever..
So in relation to what you've clearly mentioned is by one side I do not need nor accept any advice on opening my eyes cheers..
Usually you do say it as you see it.
In this instance, you only seem to have seen one side, like many others tbf. Maybe it's the algorithms, maybe it's selective, or maybe it's because you're only being shown one side.
There were a few people on the other thread saying what's happening, being ridiculed by people who don't want to open their eyes, I lumped you in with them. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but it does seem convenient.
Yes but I'm also aware that with something so fast moving and in so many places consecutively plus when other past issues are added in to the debate it's easy to miss something ..
I'll add I've said on several threads that there are genuine grievances that some across all cultures have at present in many areas and from speaking to friends and extended family it's not just white people who are not happy with the asylum mess we have, I'm certainly not at all happy..
But the way to address grievances isn't what this is about, it's the mob and all we've seen and it needs dealing with firmly and ditto anyone else who reacts to it by doing the same..
Just seen what went on in Birmingham and the police are dealing with what is being reported as criminal damage by some Muslim men, which is as it should be..
If that's the guy who said it's not the right attacking police etc but a left infiltration I'm standing by that's bollocks ..
No worries, cheers for saying that..
I don't believe there's any infiltration but I also don't believe everyone on the streets is a 'far right thug'.
The PM is not helping the situation either."Would agree, there's also those as usual who want a tear up with the police and the 'lets tag along to see if we can rob something' lot.. Same as it's been in many instances of the like.. I think he could have worded somethings differently and been more specific on what the mob is but that might then be thrown back at him too especially when police officers are being hospitalised and the rest of the criminal behaviour going on.. I'm not sure saying an 'army of police' helps either | |||
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"Heck the people who said it was about “the community” in the Middlesbrough protest couldn’t even spell Middlesbrough properly!!! And yet people fall for this shit! Let’s start doing 2 things Don’t call them protests… call them what they are.. domestic terrorists If they don’t respect the police… let’s see if they respect the army! " It would only be if the police lost control. These riots are nothing compared to what Belfast had during the troubles. Of course petrol bombs were normal and quite often there may have had a few armed! Police used plastic baton guns, tear gas and water cannons. Whilst plastic baton guns have never been used in GB they can be used in extreme situations. The police had them at Notting Hill carnival the year of the London riots as they were expecting trouble but fortunately didn't need them. So far I haven't heard of any petrol bombs being used or residential properties being attacked. I remember the annual Drumcree riots every year and they went on for weeks. It was during that time a regular got stopped at loyalist checkpoints and had to get out of the car (one at gunpoint) and be questioned so I coukd get through or have my car set on fire. Well one year the loyalisted attacked a nationalist road and threw a petrol bomb through the window. The house caught fire and 2 girls under 10 were killed. It took that to stop the riots! All because the orange order were barred from walking down Drumcree Road. Pathetic isn't it! | |||
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"I posted in pt2 as a last comment, I will add it here. These types of discussions are pointless unless entered with a view of listening and not simply preaching, it becomes us v them, and us and them pick out the worst things to highlight leaving the actual issues unanswered. Why is anyone with experience and understanding of the world surprised there are tensions between native British people and immigrants entering the country illegally and being housed in hotels, or Muslims? Protestant and Catholic troubles, Jews and Muslim troubles, not just here all over the world. Why does anyone think this country would or will be different, humans don’t like each other as a rule. There are areas of tension but more positively there are millions of people of different faiths and culture who manage to just get on with life too without hate.." In my opinion and looking at the tv coverage, millions of people putting up with one another, just. I've recently moved from the city, where I have lived for most of my life to a rural location and the difference is unbelievable. The community is a community, not groups of individuals or groups of people creating communities within a community. Everyone takes pride in the area, it is night and day in terms of peacefulness. We even have union flags and the George cross flags on all the houses and shops in the village centre, it is lovely. Now how long before someone comes along and criticises what I find to be a calmingly reassuring place to live, with a personal attack based on assumption? | |||
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"My assumption is that there are not many ethnic minorities or people of colour in your village. " Why would you assume that? | |||
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"My assumption is that there are not many ethnic minorities or people of colour in your village. " Don't worry Angela Rayner will soon fix that    | |||
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"I posted in pt2 as a last comment, I will add it here. These types of discussions are pointless unless entered with a view of listening and not simply preaching, it becomes us v them, and us and them pick out the worst things to highlight leaving the actual issues unanswered. Why is anyone with experience and understanding of the world surprised there are tensions between native British people and immigrants entering the country illegally and being housed in hotels, or Muslims? Protestant and Catholic troubles, Jews and Muslim troubles, not just here all over the world. Why does anyone think this country would or will be different, humans don’t like each other as a rule." I come from a small town in India. People from different states have different languages. Most people in my hometown are pissed off that lots of people speaking a different language from North India moved into the town because they work for cheap and the local businesses want cheap labour. It's reached a point where people have started using some slang words to call "those northies". This is about people within a country following different cultures. | |||
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" Intermittent sirens across the city centre Does seem to have deteriorated, Plymouth live reporting: Shouts of "Allah, Allah, who the **** is Allah?" are met with "Tommy, Tommy, who the **** is Tommy?" "No race no fear, refugees are welcome here", and "We are Plymouth who are you? We are many, you are few" are also being chanted Police have confirmed they are aware of an incident at Plymouth Islamic Education Trust and have officers deployed in the area. Police dogs having to wear shoes for fear of injury from broken glass This and reports that some protestors are not known locally. Looks like some of these have come for an evening out here. Very embarrassing for the city and costly for police. Tommys in for a few million in damages and policing costs. Tommy? Nah, he’ll just get his moron fans to pay any of his costs, while he lives it up somewhere nice and warm." I thought he lived in England with death threats hanging over his and his family’s life ? | |||
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"I posted in pt2 as a last comment, I will add it here. These types of discussions are pointless unless entered with a view of listening and not simply preaching, it becomes us v them, and us and them pick out the worst things to highlight leaving the actual issues unanswered. Why is anyone with experience and understanding of the world surprised there are tensions between native British people and immigrants entering the country illegally and being housed in hotels, or Muslims? Protestant and Catholic troubles, Jews and Muslim troubles, not just here all over the world. Why does anyone think this country would or will be different, humans don’t like each other as a rule. There are areas of tension but more positively there are millions of people of different faiths and culture who manage to just get on with life too without hate.. In my opinion and looking at the tv coverage, millions of people putting up with one another, just. I've recently moved from the city, where I have lived for most of my life to a rural location and the difference is unbelievable. The community is a community, not groups of individuals or groups of people creating communities within a community. Everyone takes pride in the area, it is night and day in terms of peacefulness. We even have union flags and the George cross flags on all the houses and shops in the village centre, it is lovely. Now how long before someone comes along and criticises what I find to be a calmingly reassuring place to live, with a personal attack based on assumption?" That has ALWAYS been the case, ie cities vs villages (countryside). Part of that is sheer volumes of people, the transient nature of cities and the noise/confusion/speed of life in highly built up environments vs a more sedate pace with space to breathe and time to get to know the familiar faces who inevitably see one another on a regular basis. | |||
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"I posted in pt2 as a last comment, I will add it here. These types of discussions are pointless unless entered with a view of listening and not simply preaching, it becomes us v them, and us and them pick out the worst things to highlight leaving the actual issues unanswered. Why is anyone with experience and understanding of the world surprised there are tensions between native British people and immigrants entering the country illegally and being housed in hotels, or Muslims? Protestant and Catholic troubles, Jews and Muslim troubles, not just here all over the world. Why does anyone think this country would or will be different, humans don’t like each other as a rule. There are areas of tension but more positively there are millions of people of different faiths and culture who manage to just get on with life too without hate.. In my opinion and looking at the tv coverage, millions of people putting up with one another, just. I've recently moved from the city, where I have lived for most of my life to a rural location and the difference is unbelievable. The community is a community, not groups of individuals or groups of people creating communities within a community. Everyone takes pride in the area, it is night and day in terms of peacefulness. We even have union flags and the George cross flags on all the houses and shops in the village centre, it is lovely. Now how long before someone comes along and criticises what I find to be a calmingly reassuring place to live, with a personal attack based on assumption?" The description is something I'm aware of, not only here but in other places where we and family have lived and currently live probably not flags on all the houses and shops in the centre though.. I get what your saying that some don't have the same interaction as others but tbh if that works for them that's fine and often we only see a glimpse of how things are.. What we tend to see is at times of strife or something of a national celebration etc communities become more obviously together but most of the time people are just getting on and getting by.. | |||
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"Couple in Lancashire... "I haven't seen the footage, I thought me asking 'where they..' might be an obvious clue..? Perhaps put a more precise description of what's been shown on, that way others can make a better assessment etc.." I wrote a precise description when I said "prowling", which is precisely what was happening. You made no mention of them leaving the mosque and added that bit when you replied.. Had you as I say above been more precise in saying that initially then my response would have if course differed.. It's almost like for some reason you miss salient points out then use a response upon that to just have a snipe.. I made no mention because it was a separate incident in a separate town
Then why not just say that..
I am now, once you've questioned it.
You've said you haven't seen it, that's because MSM haven't been showing it.
There are plenty of scenes, all you have to do is open your eyes. "Ah. “MSM”. I see … | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. " What are the right reasons people are scared for? | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for?" I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. " I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared." What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. " Who is saying “everything is fine”? There is always work to do, always has been, always will be. When you say “people are scared”, you seem to be electing yourself spokesperson. Maybe explain your own feelings. Are you scared? What are you scared of? | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. " … you mean like those who insist that this is a Christian country? | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared." … also the assertion that “the Muslim vote” “succeeded quite well” … are they in power? Leading the opposition? | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way." Once again, vague references to “concerns”, without listing them. What are your “concerns”? | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Once again, vague references to “concerns”, without listing them. What are your “concerns”? " Looks like you didn't even read the post. I have listed out the concerns. Anyway, I will summarise them for you. - You say, Muslims have assimilated well in this country. Yet, last elections we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" who told Muslims whom to vote for and defeated Labour in some seats. This shows many of them out their religion over this country. That's not assimilation - A teacher from Batley who drew that picture which is forbidden by Muslims is still living in hiding because of the death threats he received - In Wakefield, an autistic kid damaged a Quran and his mother was made to beg for forgiveness in front of religious extremists because the kid received death threats while the police watched In practice, we have de-facto blasphemy laws in our streets. As someone who believes more in individual freedom, these are the "concerns" I have. I know of ex-Muslims from Islamic countries who are scared of Islamic immigration. I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine and these aren't really concerns. | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. … also the assertion that “the Muslim vote” “succeeded quite well” … are they in power? Leading the opposition? " People they asked the Muslims to vote for, defeated Labour. | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way." Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity." If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity." do you agree ppl on both sides where in yr words exterminated or don’t you still allow both sides of a story as on other threads ? | |||
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"People saying "everything is fine" need to explain the independents who defeated Labour in some seats purely based on sectarian votes. There are groups like "The Muslim vote" who put their religion at the forefront over everything else and have actually succeeded quite well in the last election. Is this how assimilation is supposed to work? In any society, the ideological beliefs of the majority will prevail. Minority beliefs will be safe only as long as the majority are tolerant. Democracy just makes the powershift peaceful when a new ideology becomes the majority. At least in countries like the US, they have a strong constitution that protects their values like free speech. UK doesn't even have that. So people are scared for the right reasons. Their methods are wrong though and they deserve to be punished accordingly. What are the right reasons people are scared for? I just explained it in the first paragraph. The fact that people would put their religion over every other issue in the country. I think perhaps you are catastrophising, a protest vote at a general election is not something we should be afraid of, it is something that apparently we should take notice of. When people vote for Reform we are told that they are expressing legitimate concerns yet when it’s Muslims it’s apparently dangerous and to be feared. What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Once again, vague references to “concerns”, without listing them. What are your “concerns”? Looks like you didn't even read the post. I have listed out the concerns. Anyway, I will summarise them for you. - You say, Muslims have assimilated well in this country. Yet, last elections we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" who told Muslims whom to vote for and defeated Labour in some seats. This shows many of them out their religion over this country. That's not assimilation - A teacher from Batley who drew that picture which is forbidden by Muslims is still living in hiding because of the death threats he received - In Wakefield, an autistic kid damaged a Quran and his mother was made to beg for forgiveness in front of religious extremists because the kid received death threats while the police watched In practice, we have de-facto blasphemy laws in our streets. As someone who believes more in individual freedom, these are the "concerns" I have. I know of ex-Muslims from Islamic countries who are scared of Islamic immigration. I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine and these aren't really concerns. " “You say Muslims have assimilated well”. Please show me where I said that. I have passed no comment on how well any nationality or religion have assimilated. “I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine”. Where did I post that everything is fine? I didn’t. I did however say that there I’ll alexia’s be work to do, always has been, always will be. “Everything is fine” is a fantasy. Please stop making things up and pretending that I posted them. | |||
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" “I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine”. Where did I post that everything is fine? I didn’t. I did however say that there I’ll alexia’s be work to do, always has been, always will be. “Everything is fine” is a fantasy. " So you don't agree that everything is fine. At the same time, you will complain when someone raises concerns? Try to have some consistency on what you say. People have been raising these concerns for a long time. But nothing was really done about it. If something was really done, you won't have a teacher hiding for years just because he drew a picture. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience." Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question | |||
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" “I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine”. Where did I post that everything is fine? I didn’t. I did however say that there I’ll alexia’s be work to do, always has been, always will be. “Everything is fine” is a fantasy. So you don't agree that everything is fine. At the same time, you will complain when someone raises concerns? Try to have some consistency on what you say. People have been raising these concerns for a long time. But nothing was really done about it. If something was really done, you won't have a teacher hiding for years just because he drew a picture." I never said “everything is fine”. Twice now, I have clearly said that “everything is fine” is a fantasy, a situation we will never get to, our society will always be evolving, will always be a work in progress, there will always be challenges. If people have “concerns”, then as a civilised society we have the tools for those concerns to be addressed and discussed. Trying to kill vulnerable people, and attacking police, is not a case of people “expressing concerns”, it is criminal behaviour and must be stopped. There is no inconsistency in those opinions | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question " Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. | |||
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" “I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine”. Where did I post that everything is fine? I didn’t. I did however say that there I’ll alexia’s be work to do, always has been, always will be. “Everything is fine” is a fantasy. So you don't agree that everything is fine. At the same time, you will complain when someone raises concerns? Try to have some consistency on what you say. People have been raising these concerns for a long time. But nothing was really done about it. If something was really done, you won't have a teacher hiding for years just because he drew a picture. I never said “everything is fine”. Twice now, I have clearly said that “everything is fine” is a fantasy, a situation we will never get to, our society will always be evolving, will always be a work in progress, there will always be challenges. If people have “concerns”, then as a civilised society we have the tools for those concerns to be addressed and discussed. Trying to kill vulnerable people, and attacking police, is not a case of people “expressing concerns”, it is criminal behaviour and must be stopped. There is no inconsistency in those opinions " You are moving goal posts. You were complaining about no one telling you what the "concerns" are. Now that I have told you the concerns, you are now complaining about the riots. Even in my first message, I made it clear that such violence is uncalled for and people who indulge in it should be punished. But the concerns are real. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. " And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? " The last 3 points are for them. | |||
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"Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave." Your first point should simply be “control immigration” but I agree with your other two points. When you are an immigrant living in another country, theoretically moving for a better life for you and your family, then you should completely accept and respect social and cultural differences. If not them do not come here. I could earn a lot of money moving to a couple of countries in the Middle East but I won’t because I do not want to live within that culture (and as a swinger I’d be in deep shit). | |||
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" “I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine”. Where did I post that everything is fine? I didn’t. I did however say that there I’ll alexia’s be work to do, always has been, always will be. “Everything is fine” is a fantasy. So you don't agree that everything is fine. At the same time, you will complain when someone raises concerns? Try to have some consistency on what you say. People have been raising these concerns for a long time. But nothing was really done about it. If something was really done, you won't have a teacher hiding for years just because he drew a picture. I never said “everything is fine”. Twice now, I have clearly said that “everything is fine” is a fantasy, a situation we will never get to, our society will always be evolving, will always be a work in progress, there will always be challenges. If people have “concerns”, then as a civilised society we have the tools for those concerns to be addressed and discussed. Trying to kill vulnerable people, and attacking police, is not a case of people “expressing concerns”, it is criminal behaviour and must be stopped. There is no inconsistency in those opinions You are moving goal posts. You were complaining about no one telling you what the "concerns" are. Now that I have told you the concerns, you are now complaining about the riots. Even in my first message, I made it clear that such violence is uncalled for and people who indulge in it should be punished. But the concerns are real." Some of the rioters may feel that they have valid concerns. That in no way condones any of their actions. I am glad that you agree with this so clearly. In a civilised society, there are valid channels for expressing concerns. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them." So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? | |||
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" Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? " There are certain aspects of their religion which conflicts with individual freedom. It's either them giving up that aspect of their religion or other people giving up their individual freedom to accommodate this religion. I think the choice here is easy. They are welcome to live here as long as they don't send death threats against people who draw pictures are do sometimes to a book. They can peacefully fight against it though. You know.... how a liberal democratic should operate. Or do you prefer we have blasphemy laws here? This country shouldn't have blasphemy laws. If they want blasphemy laws, there are numerous countries in the middle east which have blasphemy laws. | |||
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" “I am pretty sure you will still keep telling that everything is fine”. Where did I post that everything is fine? I didn’t. I did however say that there I’ll alexia’s be work to do, always has been, always will be. “Everything is fine” is a fantasy. So you don't agree that everything is fine. At the same time, you will complain when someone raises concerns? Try to have some consistency on what you say. People have been raising these concerns for a long time. But nothing was really done about it. If something was really done, you won't have a teacher hiding for years just because he drew a picture. I never said “everything is fine”. Twice now, I have clearly said that “everything is fine” is a fantasy, a situation we will never get to, our society will always be evolving, will always be a work in progress, there will always be challenges. If people have “concerns”, then as a civilised society we have the tools for those concerns to be addressed and discussed. Trying to kill vulnerable people, and attacking police, is not a case of people “expressing concerns”, it is criminal behaviour and must be stopped. There is no inconsistency in those opinions You are moving goal posts. You were complaining about no one telling you what the "concerns" are. Now that I have told you the concerns, you are now complaining about the riots. Even in my first message, I made it clear that such violence is uncalled for and people who indulge in it should be punished. But the concerns are real. Some of the rioters may feel that they have valid concerns. That in no way condones any of their actions. I am glad that you agree with this so clearly. In a civilised society, there are valid channels for expressing concerns. " I have always agreed with this point. Their concerns do not justify the violence that's happening now. | |||
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"Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. Your first point should simply be “control immigration” but I agree with your other two points. When you are an immigrant living in another country, theoretically moving for a better life for you and your family, then you should completely accept and respect social and cultural differences. If not them do not come here. I could earn a lot of money moving to a couple of countries in the Middle East but I won’t because I do not want to live within that culture (and as a swinger I’d be in deep shit). " Yeah the first point should apply for immigration in general. Mentioned Islam because that's the topic in debate. Having a written constitution like US helps because it basically codifies their values. Free speech is a fundamental right in the US and you know it. Here if you ask someone what British values are, it's hard for anyone to articulate it. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? " Just jumping in if you both don’t mind as this is interesting… I would think anyone who has posted in this politics forum for a while will have seen that I am generally liberal, a centrist leaning left on some stuff and right on others. So saying that… The message I would give to people who follow any religion is simple “the UK is a tolerant country with secular govt and laws, but do not expect or try to impose your religious beliefs or rules/laws on others or you are not welcome” | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience." You might want to hold onto your hat here but those things are also wrong. It’s possible for groups of people to do both good and bad things. Not all Israelis are taking part in the genocide of the Palestinians, a lot are actively protesting against it. Just as some Muslims have done horrendous things but lots of Muslims have done really good things. I have no idea whether Muslims would’ve organised to support Jews if they were being exterminated, one thing is sure though, we British people did fuck all for the Jews when they were being persecuted and murdered in 1930s Germany, in fact we made it as difficult as possible for them to seek refuge here. You obviously have a thing about Muslims, I don’t. I don’t like any organised religion, I think they are all about power, and they all have, or would do, terrible things to gain or maintain power. Given that only 6% of the population of the UK is Muslim, I’m far more concerned at the prospect of a Christian nationalist government in the US than I am the UK becoming a caliphate. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? Just jumping in if you both don’t mind as this is interesting… I would think anyone who has posted in this politics forum for a while will have seen that I am generally liberal, a centrist leaning left on some stuff and right on others. So saying that… The message I would give to people who follow any religion is simple “the UK is a tolerant country with secular govt and laws, but do not expect or try to impose your religious beliefs or rules/laws on others or you are not welcome”" Exactly my views too 
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" I have no idea whether Muslims would’ve organised to support Jews if they were being exterminated, one thing is sure though, we British people did fuck all for the Jews when they were being persecuted and murdered in 1930s Germany, in fact we made it as difficult as possible for them to seek refuge here. " Because there are limits to how many people you can help without bringing your own country to a standstill? The policy was to ask people who want to help refugees to pay and also help with housing them. That's the fairest form of refugee policy I can think of. " You obviously have a thing about Muslims, I don’t. I don’t like any organised religion, I think they are all about power, and they all have, or would do, terrible things to gain or maintain power. Given that only 6% of the population of the UK is Muslim, I’m far more concerned at the prospect of a Christian nationalist government in the US than I am the UK becoming a caliphate." Just 6% of the population and yet they managed to enforce blasphemy laws in the country. I will put it this way. Two stand-up comedians make jokes about religion. One makes a dirty joke about Jesus and the other makes dirty joke about the Prophet. Who of the two has to live in fear for the rest of his life? And yet you have more concerns about Christian nationalism than about Islam? Where's the logic in that? Have you ever thought about why you are intentionally avoiding the topic of the Batley teacher still living in hiding? | |||
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" Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? There are certain aspects of their religion which conflicts with individual freedom. It's either them giving up that aspect of their religion or other people giving up their individual freedom to accommodate this religion. I think the choice here is easy. They are welcome to live here as long as they don't send death threats against people who draw pictures are do sometimes to a book. They can peacefully fight against it though. You know.... how a liberal democratic should operate. Or do you prefer we have blasphemy laws here? This country shouldn't have blasphemy laws. If they want blasphemy laws, there are numerous countries in the middle east which have blasphemy laws." I understand your theory, but the question i asked was the hard bit, how would you implement / enforce it. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? Just jumping in if you both don’t mind as this is interesting… I would think anyone who has posted in this politics forum for a while will have seen that I am generally liberal, a centrist leaning left on some stuff and right on others. So saying that… The message I would give to people who follow any religion is simple “the UK is a tolerant country with secular govt and laws, but do not expect or try to impose your religious beliefs or rules/laws on others or you are not welcome”" Understood. But how do you actually implement and enforce that? Particularly for people who are already living here. | |||
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" I have no idea whether Muslims would’ve organised to support Jews if they were being exterminated, one thing is sure though, we British people did fuck all for the Jews when they were being persecuted and murdered in 1930s Germany, in fact we made it as difficult as possible for them to seek refuge here. Because there are limits to how many people you can help without bringing your own country to a standstill? The policy was to ask people who want to help refugees to pay and also help with housing them. That's the fairest form of refugee policy I can think of. You obviously have a thing about Muslims, I don’t. I don’t like any organised religion, I think they are all about power, and they all have, or would do, terrible things to gain or maintain power. Given that only 6% of the population of the UK is Muslim, I’m far more concerned at the prospect of a Christian nationalist government in the US than I am the UK becoming a caliphate. Just 6% of the population and yet they managed to enforce blasphemy laws in the country. I will put it this way. Two stand-up comedians make jokes about religion. One makes a dirty joke about Jesus and the other makes dirty joke about the Prophet. Who of the two has to live in fear for the rest of his life? And yet you have more concerns about Christian nationalism than about Islam? Where's the logic in that? Have you ever thought about why you are intentionally avoiding the topic of the Batley teacher still living in hiding?" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? Just jumping in if you both don’t mind as this is interesting… I would think anyone who has posted in this politics forum for a while will have seen that I am generally liberal, a centrist leaning left on some stuff and right on others. So saying that… The message I would give to people who follow any religion is simple “the UK is a tolerant country with secular govt and laws, but do not expect or try to impose your religious beliefs or rules/laws on others or you are not welcome” Understood. But how do you actually implement and enforce that? Particularly for people who are already living here. " By not pandering to religious pressure to change the laws of the country (not saying we are but being clear that religion will not dictate anything in the UK). To paraphrase the great Micky Flanagan “I have no problem with religious people, you like the story so crack on, but aren’t they sanctimonious!” Be clear that ANYTHING that breaks the law in the UK will be dealt with. You dare issue a death threat over a cartoon or some such then YOU face the law or feel free to move to a Muslim country (just an example). | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. " I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. " Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you." At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. | |||
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" I understand your theory, but the question i asked was the hard bit, how would you implement / enforce it. " Birdldn answered above. It mostly boils down to policing. Take the case of the Wakefield Quran incident. A holy book was damaged. And a kid gets death threats. Police should have rounded up everyone who sent death threats and thrown them in prisons. The problem with UK policing is that they always try to take the easy way out. They think if they throw them in prisons, it will lead to more unrest and it's better to ask the kid's mother to ask for forgiveness in front of those nutters. This is a terrible way of dealing with this problem. If you act hard against these people sending death threats and send a clear message that this country values freedom of speech and they cannot impose their values on the rest of the people using violence, after a point they will have to give up doing this. To summarise, we need to improve our protection around free speech and go heavy handed on people who send death threats like this. | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror " Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. | |||
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" I understand your theory, but the question i asked was the hard bit, how would you implement / enforce it. Birdldn answered above. It mostly boils down to policing. Take the case of the Wakefield Quran incident. A holy book was damaged. And a kid gets death threats. Police should have rounded up everyone who sent death threats and thrown them in prisons. The problem with UK policing is that they always try to take the easy way out. They think if they throw them in prisons, it will lead to more unrest and it's better to ask the kid's mother to ask for forgiveness in front of those nutters. This is a terrible way of dealing with this problem. If you act hard against these people sending death threats and send a clear message that this country values freedom of speech and they cannot impose their values on the rest of the people using violence, after a point they will have to give up doing this. To summarise, we need to improve our protection around free speech and go heavy handed on people who send death threats like this. " It’s cheaper to ask for forgiveness than pay for people in prison It will ruin lives of 14-15 year olds (in the case you mentioned) Boys act hard, men… real men are hard. They have the ability to be violent, yet have that part of them well under control | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. " I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. " You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. " It is an offence to carry an offensive weapon. Fuck Jess Phillips though, she is openly sticking up for them (only there because they heard the EDL were coming) even after knowing they had weapons. | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. It is an offence to carry an offensive weapon. Fuck Jess Phillips though, she is openly sticking up for them (only there because they heard the EDL were coming) even after knowing they had weapons. " everyone heard that apart from the police judging by the no show from them am I suprised fuck no | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. " I've just seen (and verified) that one of the guys who went along to "apologise for his community) was actually involved in the earlier violence. Clever chap | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you?" I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran. | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. I've just seen (and verified) that one of the guys who went along to "apologise for his community) was actually involved in the earlier violence. Clever chap "Good pr or a bit daft .. Has he been arrested? | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. I've just seen (and verified) that one of the guys who went along to "apologise for his community) was actually involved in the earlier violence. Clever chap
Good pr or a bit daft ..
Has he been arrested?"I have no idea if he's been arrested. The police seem to have made a big deal of the 'elders' visiting the pub. | |||
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" I understand your theory, but the question i asked was the hard bit, how would you implement / enforce it. Birdldn answered above. It mostly boils down to policing. Take the case of the Wakefield Quran incident. A holy book was damaged. And a kid gets death threats. Police should have rounded up everyone who sent death threats and thrown them in prisons. The problem with UK policing is that they always try to take the easy way out. They think if they throw them in prisons, it will lead to more unrest and it's better to ask the kid's mother to ask for forgiveness in front of those nutters. This is a terrible way of dealing with this problem. If you act hard against these people sending death threats and send a clear message that this country values freedom of speech and they cannot impose their values on the rest of the people using violence, after a point they will have to give up doing this. To summarise, we need to improve our protection around free speech and go heavy handed on people who send death threats like this. It’s cheaper to ask for forgiveness than pay for people in prison It will ruin lives of 14-15 year olds (in the case you mentioned) Boys act hard, men… real men are hard. They have the ability to be violent, yet have that part of them well under control" By bending over to religious nutters, you are only showing weakness. They will take it as a sign that a threat of violence is enough to impose their views on others. Yes, weakness is cheaper. But you pay a bigger price in the long term. | |||
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" What exactly are they protesting against? Why is the Gaza issue much more important against what's happening within this country? People voted for Reform because they are concerns about this country and they made an individual choice to do that. In this case, we have sectarian organisations like "The Muslim vote" that's telling them who they should vote for and are succeeding. We already have de-facto blasphemy laws in this country. If we end up taking more Muslims, they will only get more political clout. The last election is clear evidence of what will happen. It's especially funny when the pro LGBTQIA+ progressives support more Islamic immigration when surveys and some real life events have clearly shown what LBTQIA+ means for Islam. In Canada, Muslim parents went on protests, making their children stomp on Pride flags. Even in Birmingham, there were Islamic parents protesting outside schools against LGBT education and shouting abuses at teachers. None of the so-called progressives opened their mouth because they were busy abusing JK Rowling on the internet. As someone who believes in freedom of speech and criticism of religion, the fact that a teacher has been living in hiding for years in this country just because he drew a picture makes me scared. Do you think I shouldn't be scared? That Batley teacher thing and the Wakefield Quran event are all examples of Two-tier policing too by the way. Everyone knew Labour was going to win, the question was by how much, would it be a huge landslide or an enormous landslide. So people took the opportunity to remind the incoming government what they wanted from them. This country is complicit in the genocide being perpetrated in Gaza because we are a) refusing to condemn it for what it is, and b) still selling the Israeli government weapons and equipment. That is somethIng that is happening in this country, and people don’t cease to be human because they didn’t happen to be born in the UK. A group of people are being exterminated, and we are complicit, if you don’t think that is an important issue in this country then I fear for your humanity. If Jews are being exterminated in a country and Labour isn't saying much about it, will "The Muslim vote" convince Muslims to vote based on that or do their "Humanity" only extend as far as Muslims. Or how about this? If a new party promises to support Palestinian cause while also making homosexuality illegal, do you think the fact that they are going to make homosexuality illegal will put them off from voting based on their religion? You don't have to lecture me on humanity. If you can see the fact that a teacher has been hiding for years just because he drew a picture and still believe there aren't any "concerns" with Islamic immigration, I fear for your blind obsession with ideologies at the cost of individual freedom. While you are at it, read about what happened to Salman Rushdie and all the authors who translated his work to other languages. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. I am pretty sure you will ignore this topic for your convenience. Instead of reiterating your “concerns” again, can you please let me know what your proposed solutions are. What do you actually suggest should happen now, in order to alleviate your “concerns”? Genuine question Control Islamic immigration. Have laws to protect freedom of speech. Tell the Muslims coming to this country that their religious laws won't apply here. People will criticise and even mock their religion and they have to put up with it. If they can't handle it, they are free to leave. And what are your plans for the 4 million Muslims who are already in the country? The last 3 points are for them. So your solution is to tell 4 million people to abandon aspects of their religion or leave the country? Have I got that right? Where should they go? And how would you go about enforcing your policy? Just jumping in if you both don’t mind as this is interesting… I would think anyone who has posted in this politics forum for a while will have seen that I am generally liberal, a centrist leaning left on some stuff and right on others. So saying that… The message I would give to people who follow any religion is simple “the UK is a tolerant country with secular govt and laws, but do not expect or try to impose your religious beliefs or rules/laws on others or you are not welcome”" Couldn't agree more with you but I think the point the OP is trying to make is we don't not have a written constitution like the US. Just because we have a secular government now doesn't mean thst can't change. | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I saw that and it's not on, Jess Philips has said whoever committed crimes amongst them will be held to account but that needs to be seen to be done as it'll only play into the narrative being pushed.. I did see that some guys and the imam from the mosque went to the pub to apologise and it was reported they said they will pay for the damage.. I've just seen (and verified) that one of the guys who went along to "apologise for his community) was actually involved in the earlier violence. Clever chap
Good pr or a bit daft ..
Has he been arrested?
I have no idea if he's been arrested. The police seem to have made a big deal of the 'elders' visiting the pub."It's 'good news' so yes.. | |||
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" I have no idea whether Muslims would’ve organised to support Jews if they were being exterminated, one thing is sure though, we British people did fuck all for the Jews when they were being persecuted and murdered in 1930s Germany, in fact we made it as difficult as possible for them to seek refuge here. Because there are limits to how many people you can help without bringing your own country to a standstill? The policy was to ask people who want to help refugees to pay and also help with housing them. That's the fairest form of refugee policy I can think of. You obviously have a thing about Muslims, I don’t. I don’t like any organised religion, I think they are all about power, and they all have, or would do, terrible things to gain or maintain power. Given that only 6% of the population of the UK is Muslim, I’m far more concerned at the prospect of a Christian nationalist government in the US than I am the UK becoming a caliphate. Just 6% of the population and yet they managed to enforce blasphemy laws in the country. I will put it this way. Two stand-up comedians make jokes about religion. One makes a dirty joke about Jesus and the other makes dirty joke about the Prophet. Who of the two has to live in fear for the rest of his life? And yet you have more concerns about Christian nationalism than about Islam? Where's the logic in that? Have you ever thought about why you are intentionally avoiding the topic of the Batley teacher still living in hiding? Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you." So you think Islam is a cancer om humanity? | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. " I have been watching the news alot and seem nothing of this. They way the bbc described the disorder in Birmingham I actually just assumed it was the far right mobs like everywhere else as the BBC was very non descriptive. It was only when ai scrolled through twitter that I actually found out what was happening there.. | |||
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"Just seen the Muslim gathering on roundabout in Birmingham attacked a guy outside a pub then attacked the pub full of families guess what no police shock horror Seen a few things like this last night on the news with these gangs walking around openly with weapons and the police do nothing. They even forced a film crew away when they realised they were being filmed. SKS seems to be getting a new nickname of two tier Kier. I have been watching the news alot and seem nothing of this. They way the bbc described the disorder in Birmingham I actually just assumed it was the far right mobs like everywhere else as the BBC was very non descriptive. It was only when ai scrolled through twitter that I actually found out what was happening there.." Actually videos on social media are unreliable sources of information | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran." You have the right to speech, not the freedom to offend, and if you openly choose to offend then face the consequences. Such is life and the world. After all with great rights, comes great responsibilities | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran. You have the right to speech, not the freedom to offend, and if you openly choose to offend then face the consequences. Such is life and the world. After all with great rights, comes great responsibilities" Freedom of speech comes with freedom to offend. People get offended for various reasons. It doesn't give them a right to go around and kill the ones who offended them. If you are going to outlaw offensive speech, you might as well give up speech because there are numerous people get offended for ridiculous things. | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran. You have the right to speech, not the freedom to offend, and if you openly choose to offend then face the consequences. Such is life and the world. After all with great rights, comes great responsibilities Freedom of speech comes with freedom to offend. People get offended for various reasons. It doesn't give them a right to go around and kill the ones who offended them. If you are going to outlaw offensive speech, you might as well give up speech because there are numerous people get offended for ridiculous things." Have we not already outlawed offensive speech? Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes, and differ slightly from the laws adopted in Scotland. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, sex, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender reassignment, or sexual orientation is forbidden. The above is taken from wiki | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran. You have the right to speech, not the freedom to offend, and if you openly choose to offend then face the consequences. Such is life and the world. After all with great rights, comes great responsibilities Freedom of speech comes with freedom to offend. People get offended for various reasons. It doesn't give them a right to go around and kill the ones who offended them. If you are going to outlaw offensive speech, you might as well give up speech because there are numerous people get offended for ridiculous things. Have we not already outlawed offensive speech? Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes, and differ slightly from the laws adopted in Scotland. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, sex, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender reassignment, or sexual orientation is forbidden. The above is taken from wiki " Hate speech and offensive speech are not the same thing. | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran. You have the right to speech, not the freedom to offend, and if you openly choose to offend then face the consequences. Such is life and the world. After all with great rights, comes great responsibilities Freedom of speech comes with freedom to offend. People get offended for various reasons. It doesn't give them a right to go around and kill the ones who offended them. If you are going to outlaw offensive speech, you might as well give up speech because there are numerous people get offended for ridiculous things. Have we not already outlawed offensive speech? Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes, and differ slightly from the laws adopted in Scotland. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, sex, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender reassignment, or sexual orientation is forbidden. The above is taken from wiki " We have, and it was a terrible idea. Many Blair era laws like the 2003 communications act have taken away free speech. These laws are so arbitrary and up to interpretation. This is one of the reasons why two-tier policing exists in this country. Different people consider different things offensive. How exactly are you going to draw the line here? What happens in practice is that police take action based on whoever will react loudest to something. That's basically two-tier policing. Now, no country has absolute free speech. Even the first amendment has some exceptions. But that's the closest you can get to free speech. By their laws, you can criticise and mock anyone. But calls for violence and libel are illegal. This is easy to enforce and isn't up to interpretation. Overall, the first amendment in the US is one of the greatest political decision ever made - Take away the rights of governments to decide what someone can speak. | |||
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" Did I not just say that those things were bad? Like I said, I get that you have a problem with Muslims but I don’t. Every religion has it’s zealots who take things too far and I have no love for any organised religion, they are a cancer on humanity. I think religions are fine as long as you use it for personal fulfilment. It's not fine the moment you impose your views on others. I am having problem with Islam because as I said, you don't see people in UK having to hide because they criticised Jesus. As of now, there are only one religion that has this problem here. Christian nationalists have a chance at gaining legislative power in the US, in this country Muslims are a small minority. I think maybe you are allowing your hatred to blind you. At least, they have the first amendment, which means you can still criticise Christianity, unless they decide to change the constitution itself, which isn't easy. And guess what? It's the so called progressives who seem to hate the first amendment and free speech. As for your other post about how we don't have blasphemy laws, I added "de-facto" for a reason. If doing something against a religion means you have to live in hiding for your entire life, well have blasphemy laws, even if it's not codified. You are criticising Islam now though, aren’t you? I am. But if I draw the forbidden picture in public, I will have to be anonymous for the rest of my life, not just on fab. If you think that's not the case, I challenge you to do so. There is a reason why the teacher is still in hiding. Satanic verses was published in 1988. Salman Rushdie was stabbed two years back for a book he published three decades back. The book's Japanese translator was killed. Its Norwegian and Italian translators were stabbed/shot but survived. An attempt at the life of its Turkish translator killed 37 people but he survived. All these happened in different countries. If you think this isn't a big problem, you should definitely take a holiday in Iran. You have the right to speech, not the freedom to offend, and if you openly choose to offend then face the consequences. Such is life and the world. After all with great rights, comes great responsibilities" Yes, we must eat shit and like it. There has never been free speech here, in he mother of the free. It’s time that those who waste their time trying to shut people up, remember that so called ‘democracies’ are supposed to be the bastions of free speech. It’s a joke really, not a funny one either.  | |||
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" Hate speech and offensive speech are not the same thing. " The 2003 communication act - "A person is guilty of an offence if he sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character;" Now what the fuck does "grossly offensive" mean? This is one of the numerous ways in which Blair fucked this country. My biggest gripe with Tories was how they repeatedly cried about "woke policing", yet they did not repeal this law in spite of being in power over a decade. This is the law that allows police to take action on mean tweets and other social media posts. This is why I believe Tories were only giving lip service to these issues and never really wanted to fix them. | |||
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