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"No it isn't." Yes it is! | |||
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"No it isn't. Yes it is! " What does it achieve? Hasn't deterred any crime anywhere to any real degree. Unless it's retribution you want, and not deterrent and justice. | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. " What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine?" My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. " Ah okay so the penalty for the same crime is now dependent on your country of origin. Yup I’m out for the day | |||
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" If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. " In what way is it a different matter? Can I just confirm, you're saying if a UK citizen does something bad, you don't trust the State in the matter of their execution, but if the criminal is from France it's okay to go ahead and kill them? I'm struggling to see a valid argument in that. Gbat | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. " Surely the principle should be that if a person is innocent their status is totally irrelevant.. Isn't that a bit like saying my family were trapped in a burning house but the only person who could have dragged them out wasn't a citizen so it's ok they perished..? | |||
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" I can't therefore support the police. " Sentences and the carrying out of them aren't a police matter. Gbat | |||
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"No it isn't. Yes it is! What does it achieve? Hasn't deterred any crime anywhere to any real degree. Unless it's retribution you want, and not deterrent and justice." It is 100% effective with them not committing their horrendous crimes again though.  | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty" Totally agree. I would leave them in a room with the victims relatives and hope they suffer a slow, painful death. I am not a violent person but some crimes are just so horrendous the culprits don't deserve to live. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty Totally agree. I would leave them in a room with the victims relatives and hope they suffer a slow, painful death. I am not a violent person but some crimes are just so horrendous the culprits don't deserve to live." Even if they are mentally ill? Don't get me wrong it's an abhorrent and vile act that's been committed but whilst there's no normal reasons for such crimes some in society are not in what we might call a normal state of mind.. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty Totally agree. I would leave them in a room with the victims relatives and hope they suffer a slow, painful death. I am not a violent person but some crimes are just so horrendous the culprits don't deserve to live. Even if they are mentally ill? Don't get me wrong it's an abhorrent and vile act that's been committed but whilst there's no normal reasons for such crimes some in society are not in what we might call a normal state of mind.. " I am all for helping people with mental health issues but when it gets to the stage that the person goes round stabbing and killing innocent people then I say they are beyond help and don't deserve help. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty Totally agree. I would leave them in a room with the victims relatives and hope they suffer a slow, painful death. I am not a violent person but some crimes are just so horrendous the culprits don't deserve to live. Even if they are mentally ill? Don't get me wrong it's an abhorrent and vile act that's been committed but whilst there's no normal reasons for such crimes some in society are not in what we might call a normal state of mind.. " Tell that to the family of a baby that’s just been r@ped and murderered. | |||
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"Op, posting in anger at what is an awful situation isn't the best way to look at any issues especially one where if it was in place we would have executed literally scores of innocent people in the period since it was rightly stopped.." .....cant see in my post Where im posting in anger...im setting up a debate...quite clearly you are way off the mark | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty" If I could be convinced that it is a strong deterrent, then yes. But.... There have been times when we had it and still had horrible murders. Some states in US do still have the death sentence and the murder rates there seem no lower than for those without. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty If I could be convinced that it is a strong deterrent, then yes. But.... There have been times when we had it and still had horrible murders. Some states in US do still have the death sentence and the murder rates there seem no lower than for those without." Maybe not a deterrent but at least it will get rid of one evil human which can only be good. | |||
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"Op, posting in anger at what is an awful situation isn't the best way to look at any issues especially one where if it was in place we would have executed literally scores of innocent people in the period since it was rightly stopped.......cant see in my post Where im posting in anger...im setting up a debate...quite clearly you are way off the mark" Your starting point is based purely upon the disgusting acts carried out today, fingers crossed no one dies of course but clearly you were using what is a very emotive and upsetting incident.. So yes I'm going with you posted the thread in anger.. | |||
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"It's swings and roundabouts OP, the police kill innocent people wrongly convicted of murder vs the scum released back into society, who murders innocent people. We are in a lose lose society
"Sadly I think you are right | |||
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"Multiple studies have shown it is not effective as any form of deterrent. If fact it can have the opposite effect. Also long prison sentences are also ineffective…. The usual suspects will cry that if they are locked up then they can’t commit more crimes. However In the UK, around 60% of released inmates go on to reoffend within a two-year period. But in Norway the reoffending rate is only 20% after two years. Partly as a result, Norway has almost three times fewer inmates than the UK, with prisons operating at a capacity of 73%, as opposed to 104% in England and Wales. The biggest crime here is the cost to the tax payer of this reoffending rate. Time for real progressive prison and justice reform …. Lock people up and treat them animals they will behave like animals…. I’ll just now wait for the howls of angst from the ‘lock em up’ and ‘flog em’ brigade… " Feelings don't care about facts though, and expertise that gets in the way of folk wisdom is terrible. Apparently *cries into criminology degree* | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states." Surely you dont believe we should carry guns? | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states." Except this is about the death penalty, not America's ridiculous gun laws. | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states. Surely you dont believe we should carry guns?" There are plenty here who do 🙄 | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states." No thanks, whilst I do think sensible gun ownership is a thing with valid reason, I don’t want to be walking the streets with others carrying a firearm. It doesn’t “deter” anything, and the overall gun crime in American is sky high because of it. | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states. No thanks, whilst I do think sensible gun ownership is a thing with valid reason, I don’t want to be walking the streets with others carrying a firearm. It doesn’t “deter” anything, and the overall gun crime in American is sky high because of it. " As I said crime is down by 58% so the figures prove it makes criminals think and they move somewhere else. Gun crime maybe high but knife crime is here because we don't have access to guns or we would be worse per capita | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states. No thanks, whilst I do think sensible gun ownership is a thing with valid reason, I don’t want to be walking the streets with others carrying a firearm. It doesn’t “deter” anything, and the overall gun crime in American is sky high because of it. As I said crime is down by 58% so the figures prove it makes criminals think and they move somewhere else. Gun crime maybe high but knife crime is here because we don't have access to guns or we would be worse per capita " You keep quoting 58% but to put that purely on Florida's lax gun control laws and equate it to a reduction in every crime is a misrepresentation of the facts. | |||
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"Crime in the state of Florida is down by 58% because the public carry firearms and have the stand your ground law. If you feel threatened or can prevent a criminal act you have the absolute right to shoot the criminals dead. Criminals indeed do fear death. Not by the system but by the public which is why crime is at record low levels in Florida and people are relocating there from all over the states." Rubbish. 58% reduction from when to when? Where is this figure verified? Fwiw, after the introduction of the Stand Your Ground law in 2005, total homicide and firearms homicide actually increased based on rates from 1999 onwards until 2014 in Florida. Numerous other surveys and comparisons with other states with SYG laws don't show a decrease in violent crime attributable to the law. But in the world of instant SM justice and tidal waves of deliberate misinformation, facts don't matter anymore. | |||
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"In my opinion in doesn't need to come back as I am in the mindset, it's a life for a life, someone still needs to end that's persons life, doesn't matter if they are doing it for "good". What we need is younger prisons and tougher sentences." Obviously I meant tougher prisons | |||
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"Absolutely bring it back. There are more useful ways of spend taxpayers money!" The death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence. | |||
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"Absolutely bring it back. There are more useful ways of spend taxpayers money! The death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence." One lethal injection is more than a lifetime in prison. What is the maths on that one. I am sure we could send the money to the doctors, the nurses, the teachers, etc etc | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty Totally agree. I would leave them in a room with the victims relatives and hope they suffer a slow, painful death. I am not a violent person but some crimes are just so horrendous the culprits don't deserve to live." That is of course if we are absolutely and totally satisfied the accused is guilty? Anyone who wishes a slow painful death on a fellow homosapien is inherently violent. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty If I could be convinced that it is a strong deterrent, then yes. But.... There have been times when we had it and still had horrible murders. Some states in US do still have the death sentence and the murder rates there seem no lower than for those without. Maybe not a deterrent but at least it will get rid of one evil human which can only be good." Stefan Klitschko was considered an evil human being until he was exonerated for a heinous crime committed by another. One miscarriage of justice should convince the mob that capital punishment is for societies run by dictators, despots and religious zealots. | |||
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"In my opinion in doesn't need to come back as I am in the mindset, it's a life for a life, someone still needs to end that's persons life, doesn't matter if they are doing it for "good". What we need is younger prisons and tougher sentences. Obviously I meant tougher prisons " They don’t work either…. If you research criminal justice systems around the world you will find the ones that are seen as soft have the greatest successes in rehabilitation of offenders. As counter intuitive as it seems… But it’s all too easy to fall in to the trap of calling for tougher sentencing. Unless you want a criminal justice system that is based on retribution rather than rehabilitation. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty If I could be convinced that it is a strong deterrent, then yes. But.... There have been times when we had it and still had horrible murders. Some states in US do still have the death sentence and the murder rates there seem no lower than for those without." We had this late last year and the city rioted! One child still in hospital who’s had a horrible recovery He’s still in custody denying everything | |||
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"Another no here. I don't believe in state sanctioned murder when we have such an imperfect judicial system." 100% agree | |||
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"In my opinion in doesn't need to come back as I am in the mindset, it's a life for a life, someone still needs to end that's persons life, doesn't matter if they are doing it for "good". What we need is younger prisons and tougher sentences. Obviously I meant tougher prisons They don’t work either…. If you research criminal justice systems around the world you will find the ones that are seen as soft have the greatest successes in rehabilitation of offenders. As counter intuitive as it seems… But it’s all too easy to fall in to the trap of calling for tougher sentencing. Unless you want a criminal justice system that is based on retribution rather than rehabilitation. " It's quite obvious a lot of people just want retribution based punishment because the alternative means challenging and changing some deeply held beliefs. And why should they be forced to change when they've done nothing wrong thank you very much! | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. " So if a citizen kills someone they should go to prison If a non citizen kills someone in this country they should be hanged. In my opinion they should be given proper life sentences not have one rule for one and another rule for someone else | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. So if a citizen kills someone they should go to prison If a non citizen kills someone in this country they should be hanged. In my opinion they should be given proper life sentences not have one rule for one and another rule for someone else" Another one that has fallen for the trap of tougher sentences. Rather than challenging false beliefs and understanding criminal justice and how rehabilitation and offender motivation works…. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty" Off with their heads Mr | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. So if a citizen kills someone they should go to prison If a non citizen kills someone in this country they should be hanged. In my opinion they should be given proper life sentences not have one rule for one and another rule for someone else Another one that has fallen for the trap of tougher sentences. Rather than challenging false beliefs and understanding criminal justice and how rehabilitation and offender motivation works…. " And you really believe there is any rehabilitation in our criminal justice system? Mr | |||
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"Horrific though today's events were, I could never condone the death penalty. What an awful burden it would be to put upon a jury member. " Indeed. It makes one directly complicit in the death of another human being, and thus indirectly murdering them via proxy. I also very much doubt the person to die consents to their death either, so whilst the law(if it was legal) and the rest of the jury, and indeed the judge might commute a death sentence; I have to live with a life sentence of having sanctioned a murder by the state. No thanks. | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty Totally agree. I would leave them in a room with the victims relatives and hope they suffer a slow, painful death. I am not a violent person but some crimes are just so horrendous the culprits don't deserve to live. Even if they are mentally ill? Don't get me wrong it's an abhorrent and vile act that's been committed but whilst there's no normal reasons for such crimes some in society are not in what we might call a normal state of mind.. " He wasn't mentally ill. That's just a fucking pathetic excuse for terrorism. | |||
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"The Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four wouldn't agree it should come back and depending on how far down the justice system it goes, a load of sub post masters wouldn't either. " They were guilty. Bombings stopped soon as they were arrested. Should have been hung. | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈" Are you kidding, children have died and you're talking about the small details?? Get a grip! | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈" We know that teo are confirmed dead. At least one a young child and one a yoga instructor . At least six children seriously injured and in hospital. It was a children dance class at a summer club. It's not something that we are speculating on. | |||
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"I wonder how many that think the death penalty is wrong would change there minds if it was one of there love ones that had been killed I am not saying that it is a definite deterrent but if it was a option it might just make one or two to think before going out to kill some one I would vote yes to bring it back" You've got no idea what others have suffered when they oppose the death penalty. | |||
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"I wonder how many that think the death penalty is wrong would change there minds if it was one of there love ones that had been killed I am not saying that it is a definite deterrent but if it was a option it might just make one or two to think before going out to kill some one I would vote yes to bring it back You've got no idea what others have suffered when they oppose the death penalty." Long hard labour is far more suffering than death. Jail for 100 years and make them smash rocks with their bare hands all day | |||
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"Absolutely bring it back. There are more useful ways of spend taxpayers money! The death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence. One lethal injection is more than a lifetime in prison. What is the maths on that one. I am sure we could send the money to the doctors, the nurses, the teachers, etc etc" Ah, you see, in civilised countries, there is significant litigation before being sure enough that a state can murder people. And even then they get it wrong. So it's not lethal injection plus staff versus a life in prison, it's that plus a veritable fuckton of lawyers. The kind of place where lots of appeals aren't involved are the kinds of places where people disappear on government whim. | |||
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"No point, apparently there's life after it. "Brilliant comment. Apparently gone unnoticed for 9 hours! | |||
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"Horrific though today's events were, I could never condone the death penalty. What an awful burden it would be to put upon a jury member. " In this country a jury decides on guilt the presiding judge passes sentence. | |||
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"I wonder how many that think the death penalty is wrong would change there minds if it was one of there love ones that had been killed I am not saying that it is a definite deterrent but if it was a option it might just make one or two to think before going out to kill some one I would vote yes to bring it back You've got no idea what others have suffered when they oppose the death penalty. Long hard labour is far more suffering than death. Jail for 100 years and make them smash rocks with their bare hands all day" I tend to agree that those convicted of premeditated murder or serial notoriety should go to prison for life and that regime should be at the least cost to the taxpayer. | |||
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"I don't want to live in a country where the state has the right to take the lives of its own citizens. If they are not citizens then fine. But I don't trust the state with running a bus service let alone killing us. What do you mean if they are not citizens it’s fine? My objection to the death penalty is not a moral or ethical one, it's about government overreach in terms of its own citizens. If someone who is not a citizen does something to warrant it then it's a different matter. So if a citizen kills someone they should go to prison If a non citizen kills someone in this country they should be hanged. In my opinion they should be given proper life sentences not have one rule for one and another rule for someone else Another one that has fallen for the trap of tougher sentences. Rather than challenging false beliefs and understanding criminal justice and how rehabilitation and offender motivation works…. And you really believe there is any rehabilitation in our criminal justice system? Mr " There is but it is not applied in an effective way. If you take a real look at other criminal justice systems and I will refer to the Norwegian model. You will see the reoffending rate in Norway has fallen to only 20% after two years and about 25% after five years. In the UK the recidivism rate is almost 50% after just one year. Yet we still persist with the idea of a a punitive "lock-up" approach at great expense to the tax payer and that clearly doesn’t work. Norway does not instate capital punishment or life imprisonment. The maximum custodial sentence is 21 years (30 for crimes against humanity and only life imprisonment for military crimes); however, at the end of the initial prison term the courts have the power to add five-year increments to the prisoner’s sentence every five years, indefinitely, if it is determined the prisoner is not rehabilitated. I’m sure a number here will say this is far too soft with Prison officers trained to act as mentors and role models rather than guards. But the evidence is there that it works. Unless you want to persist with an overcrowded system with high reoffending rates because it suits your idea of revenge punishment. | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈 Are you kidding, children have died and you're talking about the small details?? Get a grip!" Keep your gross opinions to this thread, not our inbox. | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈 Are you kidding, children have died and you're talking about the small details?? Get a grip! Keep your gross opinions to this thread, not our inbox." Can you please stop targeting me, I have blocked and reported you, it needs to stop! I'm entitled to an opinion and you shouldn't be harassing me over it, thank you. | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈 Are you kidding, children have died and you're talking about the small details?? Get a grip! Keep your gross opinions to this thread, not our inbox. Can you please stop targeting me, I have blocked and reported you, it needs to stop! I'm entitled to an opinion and you shouldn't be harassing me over it, thank you." Good luck with that, pretty sure the admins are gonna see through your lies here buddy. | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈 Are you kidding, children have died and you're talking about the small details?? Get a grip! Keep your gross opinions to this thread, not our inbox. Can you please stop targeting me, I have blocked and reported you, it needs to stop! I'm entitled to an opinion and you shouldn't be harassing me over it, thank you. Good luck with that, pretty sure the admins are gonna see through your lies here buddy." Please stop!! I've told you I've blocked you and you're repeatedly messaging | |||
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"don't expect me to sit on a jury if death sentences are on the statute .... disgusting idea" You'll do as you're told and will be front and centre of the jury when labour bring it back! | |||
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"don't expect me to sit on a jury if death sentences are on the statute .... disgusting idea" You will be expected to and if not you will be in contempt. | |||
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"I do wonder how some of these trash opinions get allowed on the forums. I'm all for free speech, freedom of opinion (it works both ways); but some of these ars just pure spite, vitriolic and hateful. The lack of understanding is astounding." Welcome to the politics section
In seriousness. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, no matter how abhorrent it might seem. It's an opportunity to see what some people who wouldn't be in your social, family, or work circles think about certain topics. | |||
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"Always find those preaching to be in favour of free speech shutting down other more important people's opinions with their left woke agenda! " What's the "awareness of social injustice, especially racism" agenda? And why is this "left"? | |||
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"Always find those preaching to be in favour of free speech shutting down other more important people's opinions with their left woke agenda! " I beg to differ. I for one may disagree with your opinion but I would defend vigorously your right to it and the freedom to express it. The attack is horrific and our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones. I am not in favour of capital punishment for the simple reason of getting the conviction wrong. There are a few examples of miscarriages of justice that would of resulted in innocent people being sent to the gallows. A civilised society has the reason and duty to deal with those who act in an uncivilised way to dispense justice which if found to later to be incorrect can be reversed. | |||
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"I do wonder how some of these trash opinions get allowed on the forums. I'm all for free speech, freedom of opinion (it works both ways); but some of these ars just pure spite, vitriolic and hateful. The lack of understanding is astounding. Welcome to the politics section
In seriousness. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, no matter how abhorrent it might seem. It's an opportunity to see what some people who wouldn't be in your social, family, or work circles think about certain topics. "No one has a right not to be offended. | |||
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"Always find those preaching to be in favour of free speech shutting down other more important people's opinions with their left woke agenda! I beg to differ. I for one may disagree with your opinion but I would defend vigorously your right to it and the freedom to express it. The attack is horrific and our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones. I am not in favour of capital punishment for the simple reason of getting the conviction wrong. There are a few examples of miscarriages of justice that would of resulted in innocent people being sent to the gallows. A civilised society has the reason and duty to deal with those who act in an uncivilised way to dispense justice which if found to later to be incorrect can be reversed." Multiple victims, witnesses, evidence, camera footage, weapon found. No miscarriage of justice or false identification there, no doubt whatsoever it's not the correct suspect so in these cases, the death penalty should follow. | |||
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"I do wonder how some of these trash opinions get allowed on the forums. I'm all for free speech, freedom of opinion (it works both ways); but some of these ars just pure spite, vitriolic and hateful. The lack of understanding is astounding. Welcome to the politics section
In seriousness. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, no matter how abhorrent it might seem. It's an opportunity to see what some people who wouldn't be in your social, family, or work circles think about certain topics.
No one has a right not to be offended."No one doesn't not have the right to be unoffended too. | |||
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"I do wonder how some of these trash opinions get allowed on the forums. I'm all for free speech, freedom of opinion (it works both ways); but some of these ars just pure spite, vitriolic and hateful. The lack of understanding is astounding. Welcome to the politics section
In seriousness. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, no matter how abhorrent it might seem. It's an opportunity to see what some people who wouldn't be in your social, family, or work circles think about certain topics.
No one has a right not to be offended.
No one doesn't not have the right to be unoffended too. "Same thing but just expressed incoherently | |||
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"I do wonder how some of these trash opinions get allowed on the forums. I'm all for free speech, freedom of opinion (it works both ways); but some of these ars just pure spite, vitriolic and hateful. The lack of understanding is astounding. Welcome to the politics section
In seriousness. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, no matter how abhorrent it might seem. It's an opportunity to see what some people who wouldn't be in your social, family, or work circles think about certain topics.
No one has a right not to be offended.
No one doesn't not have the right to be unoffended too.
Same thing but just expressed incoherently "I was just being playful about the double negatives.  | |||
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"It's all very well allowing freedom of speech however I do think some opinions should be kept inside people's head's." A point well demonstrated….. | |||
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"I do wonder how some of these trash opinions get allowed on the forums. I'm all for free speech, freedom of opinion (it works both ways); but some of these ars just pure spite, vitriolic and hateful. The lack of understanding is astounding. Welcome to the politics section
In seriousness. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, no matter how abhorrent it might seem. It's an opportunity to see what some people who wouldn't be in your social, family, or work circles think about certain topics.
No one has a right not to be offended.
No one doesn't not have the right to be unoffended too.
Same thing but just expressed incoherently
I was just being playful about the double negatives. "Sorry I was jesting | |||
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"No it isn't. Yes it is! What does it achieve? Hasn't deterred any crime anywhere to any real degree. Unless it's retribution you want, and not deterrent and justice." well my guess is the guy is never getting out so instead of wasting money keeping him locked up let him swing instead big brave man attacking small children | |||
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"No it isn't. Yes it is! What does it achieve? Hasn't deterred any crime anywhere to any real degree. Unless it's retribution you want, and not deterrent and justice.well my guess is the guy is never getting out so instead of wasting money keeping him locked up let him swing instead big brave man attacking small children" As been said, death sentences cost more than life sentences. So do tge math. | |||
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"No it isn't. Yes it is! What does it achieve? Hasn't deterred any crime anywhere to any real degree. Unless it's retribution you want, and not deterrent and justice.well my guess is the guy is never getting out so instead of wasting money keeping him locked up let him swing instead big brave man attacking small children As been said, death sentences cost more than life sentences. So do tge math." pretty sure a rope is very cheap | |||
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"Always find those preaching to be in favour of free speech shutting down other more important people's opinions with their left woke agenda! I beg to differ. I for one may disagree with your opinion but I would defend vigorously your right to it and the freedom to express it. The attack is horrific and our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones. I am not in favour of capital punishment for the simple reason of getting the conviction wrong. There are a few examples of miscarriages of justice that would of resulted in innocent people being sent to the gallows. A civilised society has the reason and duty to deal with those who act in an uncivilised way to dispense justice which if found to later to be incorrect can be reversed. Multiple victims, witnesses, evidence, camera footage, weapon found. No miscarriage of justice or false identification there, no doubt whatsoever it's not the correct suspect so in these cases, the death penalty should follow." Maybe not the death penalty but their life sentence should be the hardest, most miserable and uncomfortable time in jail. The death penalty doesn't give the perpetrator time to think on his or her crimes over the rest of their miserable lives. ------------------------------ In my opinion....death sentences should only be given to those that miss penalties in world cup, euro, FA, European cup, europa league and all Ireland finals....firing squad would prove effective | |||
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"After the tragic events unfolding in my home town of Southport is it time to consider bringing back the death penalty" While a tragic set of events. The death penalty adds to just one thing - more death. | |||
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"No it isn't. Yes it is! What does it achieve? Hasn't deterred any crime anywhere to any real degree. Unless it's retribution you want, and not deterrent and justice.well my guess is the guy is never getting out so instead of wasting money keeping him locked up let him swing instead big brave man attacking small children As been said, death sentences cost more than life sentences. So do tge math.pretty sure a rope is very cheap" Ahh yes, someone else who doesn't understand due process. | |||
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"Unofficial reports the stabber to be a second generation Rwandan immigrant Unfortunately the deportation scheme is now closed " And race, origin, etc matters - why? | |||
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"If its unofficial, how can you know the authenticity of it? Mrs x" Times apparently https://x.com/WoodsyNeverWent/status/1818046585034420378/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1818046585034420378¤tTweetUser=WoodsyNeverWent | |||
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"Unofficial reports the stabber to be a second generation Rwandan immigrant Unfortunately the deportation scheme is now closed And race, origin, etc matters - why?" Is on MI6 watch list apparently. | |||
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"Unofficial reports the stabber to be a second generation Rwandan immigrant Unfortunately the deportation scheme is now closed And race, origin, etc matters - why?" It's very important, so that the pro and anti lobbies know what to put on their banners ahead of the marches and protests they've already arranged...  | |||
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"If its unofficial, how can you know the authenticity of it? Mrs x Times apparently https://x.com/WoodsyNeverWent/status/1818046585034420378/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1818046585034420378¤tTweetUser=WoodsyNeverWent" Cannot find anything on mainstream media saying this. Isn't it just 'Twitter news'. And the police have said the youth was born in Cardiff, so won't be an asylum seekers if that's the case. Think we should wait until more details are released through the proper channels. Mrs x | |||
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"If its unofficial, how can you know the authenticity of it? Mrs x Times apparently https://x.com/WoodsyNeverWent/status/1818046585034420378/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1818046585034420378¤tTweetUser=WoodsyNeverWent Cannot find anything on mainstream media saying this. Isn't it just 'Twitter news'. And the police have said the youth was born in Cardiff, so won't be an asylum seekers if that's the case. Think we should wait until more details are released through the proper channels. Mrs x" We should definitely wait. We won't get it until court though as he's a 'minor'. Also, just to be clear, the police said 'originally from Cardiff' not 'born in Cardiff'. I know how you've chosen to interpret that but that could very well be wordplay. | |||
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"Unofficial reports the stabber to be a second generation Rwandan immigrant Unfortunately the deportation scheme is now closed " How many generations of immigrants do you want to see deported | |||
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"Also, just to be clear, the police said 'originally from Cardiff' not 'born in Cardiff'. I know how you've chosen to interpret that but that could very well be wordplay. " the police said born | |||
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"If its unofficial, how can you know the authenticity of it? Mrs x Times apparently https://x.com/WoodsyNeverWent/status/1818046585034420378/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1818046585034420378¤tTweetUser=WoodsyNeverWent Cannot find anything on mainstream media saying this. Isn't it just 'Twitter news'. And the police have said the youth was born in Cardiff, so won't be an asylum seekers if that's the case. Think we should wait until more details are released through the proper channels. Mrs x" Telegraph: The youth, who cannot be named for legal reasons and is originally from Cardiff, in Wales, moved to the Southport area with his Rwandan parents https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/29/businessman-who-tried-to-disarm-southport-attacker-stabbed/ | |||
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"Also, just to be clear, the police said 'originally from Cardiff' not 'born in Cardiff'. I know how you've chosen to interpret that but that could very well be wordplay. the police said born" You clearly haven't watched the Chief Constable speak, you know, actual words coming out of her mouth. You've instead read the media spin. Do better  | |||
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"Also, just to be clear, the police said 'originally from Cardiff' not 'born in Cardiff'. I know how you've chosen to interpret that but that could very well be wordplay. the police said born You clearly haven't watched the Chief Constable speak, you know, actual words coming out of her mouth. You've instead read the media spin. Do better "no, i read the merseyside police official web page (seeing as how you insist on playing bottom trumps), which says, and i quote (cut'n'paste) .... News Statement from Chief Constable Serena Kennedy following major incident in Southport Main article content News Published: 19:18 29/07/2024 Updated News Post PREVIEW_LATEST NEWS_600x370-5 copy.jpg "It is with great sadness that today I am here to advise that two young children have died as a result of injuries sustained in a knife attack this morning. "Nine other children have been injured, and six of them are in a critical condition, all those injured have suffered stab wounds sustained during the attack. Two adults are also in a critical condition after being injured during the incident. "A 17-year-old male from Banks in Lancashire, who was born in Cardiff, has been arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder and has been taken to a police station where he will be interviewed by detectives | |||
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"If its unofficial, how can you know the authenticity of it? Mrs x Times apparently https://x.com/WoodsyNeverWent/status/1818046585034420378/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1818046585034420378¤tTweetUser=WoodsyNeverWent Cannot find anything on mainstream media saying this. Isn't it just 'Twitter news'. And the police have said the youth was born in Cardiff, so won't be an asylum seekers if that's the case. Think we should wait until more details are released through the proper channels. Mrs x Telegraph: The youth, who cannot be named for legal reasons and is originally from Cardiff, in Wales, moved to the Southport area with his Rwandan parents https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/29/businessman-who-tried-to-disarm-southport-attacker-stabbed/ " So he was born in Cardiff and the Telegraph are reporting he has Rwandan parents? Cannot read article unless I sign up for a trial. Mrs x | |||
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"If its unofficial, how can you know the authenticity of it? Mrs x Times apparently https://x.com/WoodsyNeverWent/status/1818046585034420378/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1818046585034420378¤tTweetUser=WoodsyNeverWent Cannot find anything on mainstream media saying this. Isn't it just 'Twitter news'. And the police have said the youth was born in Cardiff, so won't be an asylum seekers if that's the case. Think we should wait until more details are released through the proper channels. Mrs x Telegraph: The youth, who cannot be named for legal reasons and is originally from Cardiff, in Wales, moved to the Southport area with his Rwandan parents https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/29/businessman-who-tried-to-disarm-southport-attacker-stabbed/ So he was born in Cardiff and the Telegraph are reporting he has Rwandan parents? Cannot read article unless I sign up for a trial. Mrs x" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t He was born in Cardiff to Rwandan parents, and moved to the Southport area in 2013 | |||
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"Also, just to be clear, the police said 'originally from Cardiff' not 'born in Cardiff'. I know how you've chosen to interpret that but that could very well be wordplay. the police said born You clearly haven't watched the Chief Constable speak, you know, actual words coming out of her mouth. You've instead read the media spin. Do better
no, i read the merseyside police official web page (seeing as how you insist on playing bottom trumps), which says, and i quote (cut'n'paste) ....
News
Statement from Chief Constable Serena Kennedy following major incident in Southport
Main article content
News
Published: 19:18 29/07/2024
Updated News Post
PREVIEW_LATEST NEWS_600x370-5 copy.jpg
"It is with great sadness that today I am here to advise that two young children have died as a result of injuries sustained in a knife attack this morning.
"Nine other children have been injured, and six of them are in a critical condition, all those injured have suffered stab wounds sustained during the attack. Two adults are also in a critical condition after being injured during the incident.
"A 17-year-old male from Banks in Lancashire, who was born in Cardiff, has been arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder and has been taken to a police station where he will be interviewed by detectives
"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back "so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back
so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man "I am saying exactly that. If you're too scared to watch the video because it'll show I'm speaking the truth, I get it
I would link it but its X and I'm not sure if it's allowed. Go to @merseypolice and you can watch it clearly, it's within 30 seconds of the video so you won't need to concentrate for too long. | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back
so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man
I am saying exactly that. If you're too scared to watch the video because it'll show I'm speaking the truth, I get it
I would link it but its X and I'm not sure if it's allowed. Go to @merseypolice and you can watch it clearly, it's within 30 seconds of the video so you won't need to concentrate for too long. "i don't need to, maybe you can read what the chief constable has said by checking the official merseyside police website rather than quoting a nefarious social media website .... and perhaps drop the personal attacks at the same time. | |||
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"Unofficial reports the stabber to be a second generation Rwandan immigrant Unfortunately the deportation scheme is now closed And race, origin, etc matters - why? Is on MI6 watch list apparently. " Is that from the same source, the website in the US who are falsely claiming the person came into the country last year on a small boat and also named him which isn't the case .. Oh yeah, in this country it's MI5 who deal with such issues as domestic terrorism which has been discounted.. | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back
so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man "Yes. They didn't. Feisty is right. Easy enough to find, too. | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back
so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man
Yes. They didn't. Feisty is right. Easy enough to find, too. "you also are going to maintain that the police haven't said the perpertrator wasn't born i cardiff then? despite the latest statement written on the official merseyside police website? fill your boots | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back
so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man
Yes. They didn't. Feisty is right. Easy enough to find, too.
you also are going to maintain that the police haven't said the perpertrator wasn't born i cardiff then? despite the latest statement written on the official merseyside police website? fill your boots "Feisty said that they did NOT quote her verbatim - go read the website - they didn't.  | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈" The suspect was known to the authorities. They say not treated as a terrorist incident yet send armed police to the house in nearby in Banks? No, not buying it. | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. Go and watch the video, then you can come back
so you're saying the official police website hasn't quoted the police? totally wild man
I am saying exactly that. If you're too scared to watch the video because it'll show I'm speaking the truth, I get it
I would link it but its X and I'm not sure if it's allowed. Go to @merseypolice and you can watch it clearly, it's within 30 seconds of the video so you won't need to concentrate for too long.
i don't need to, maybe you can read what the chief constable has said by checking the official merseyside police website rather than quoting a nefarious social media website .... and perhaps drop the personal attacks at the same time."We can't have a conversation about the truth if you aren't willing to learn. They did not quote her verbatim. End of. | |||
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"You can’t even possibly know all the facts yet 🙈 The suspect was known to the authorities. They say not treated as a terrorist incident yet send armed police to the house in nearby in Banks? No, not buying it." He's classed as a child which is odd however that usually means no information is released at this point, what's your source for the claim he's known and which authority please? On the latter point it's pretty standard protocol at that stage following such an incident where there's a possibility of threat that they go in with armed response initially.. | |||
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"Feisty said that they did NOT quote her verbatim - go read the website - they didn't. "i've read the official statement by Chief Constable Serena Kennedy and then cut'n'paste that same official statement by Chief Constable Serena Kennedy from the official merseyside police website, if you chose to believe that the fact she is saying the perpertrator was born in cardiff then that's your choice .... i can't be clearer lol | |||
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"Death penalty will save money keeping animals alive. We out dogs down for less and if you take a life you've forfeited your human rights as far as were concerned." Looks like a few governments have forfeited their humans rights. As have executioners at their behest. And those who have killed in self defense... and war... What a ridiculous statement. | |||
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"Feisty said that they did NOT quote her verbatim - go read the website - they didn't.
i've read the official statement by Chief Constable Serena Kennedy and then cut'n'paste that same official statement by Chief Constable Serena Kennedy from the official merseyside police website, if you chose to believe that the fact she is saying the perpertrator was born in cardiff then that's your choice .... i can't be clearer lol"You need to actually read the conversation . . . . In all CAPS NOW: FEIST SAID THAT THEY DID NOT QUOTE HER VERBATIM - THEY DIDN'T !!! | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. End of. " Chief Constable Serena Kennedy has released a statement stating the perpertrator was born in cardiff .... the fact that it is currently written in black and white on their offical website as of now is irrefutable | |||
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"They did not quote her verbatim. End of. Chief Constable Serena Kennedy has released a statement stating the perpertrator was born in cardiff .... the fact that it is currently written in black and white on their offical website as of now is irrefutable" Fuck me, I didn't realise you were another one of those. Watch the video bruh, it will confirm what I have said is correct | |||
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"Fuck me, I didn't realise you were another one of those. Watch the video bruh, it will confirm what I have said is correct " read it .... https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2024/july/statement-from-chief-constable-serena-kennedy-following-major-incident-in-southport/ ... and drop the personal attacks please | |||
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"Oh! For the love of sausage rolls: Read the website. Then Watch the video. Did the website quote her verbatim? Circle the right answer: Yes/No. If you get it right there is a gold forum star waiting lol. " i've posted the hyperlink .... it's irrefutable fact that the police said the perpertrator was born in cardiff, as i have maintained throughout .... it's up to you wether you continue to assert that this undeniable fact is fake news | |||
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"And you are STILL NOT reading what has been said. " I have read what the police have said and posted the hyperlink to demonstrate ... if you wish to continue your assertion that this fact is fake news then fill your boots | |||
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