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Some big names are out of the running. | |||
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"Count Bin Face thinking of defecting and throwing his lid into the ring." Who? | |||
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"Cleverley is popular, they like his straight talking .. Ditto Laura Trott but her profile isn't as high as him.. I think it depends on which way some try to take them, closer to reform and there's a cpl of obvious names.." Kemi and Cleverly? | |||
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"Cleverley is popular, they like his straight talking .. Ditto Laura Trott but her profile isn't as high as him.. I think it depends on which way some try to take them, closer to reform and there's a cpl of obvious names.. Kemi and Cleverly?" Centre / right alliance, possibly.. | |||
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"Braverman " Fingers crossed emoji. | |||
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"Braverman " Not so sure, Buckland has criticised her publicly over her piece in the media which is being seen as her putting herself over the party.. The criticism privately will be much worse.. | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism." It will be interesting to see what they do. Battle Reform for the "foreigners out" brigade, or come back to some form of grown up politics. | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism. It will be interesting to see what they do. Battle Reform for the "foreigners out" brigade, or come back to some form of grown up politics. " They need to move back towards John Major and David Cameron territory (but with more backbone than the latter) | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism. It will be interesting to see what they do. Battle Reform for the "foreigners out" brigade, or come back to some form of grown up politics. They need to move back towards John Major and David Cameron territory (but with more backbone than the latter)" Taking the assumption that they lost more voters to Reform, than they lost to Labour or Lib Dems. Would moving towards more sensible grown up politics work? | |||
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"I really hope it’s Braverman or Priti Patel." For the pure theatre of it surely? Neither of them are remotely capable of leading a credible opposition! Tories lurching hard right simply plays into Labours hands, given their huge majority, they’ll be in power for decades laughing at an opposition that hardly anybody would vote for. | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism. It will be interesting to see what they do. Battle Reform for the "foreigners out" brigade, or come back to some form of grown up politics. They need to move back towards John Major and David Cameron territory (but with more backbone than the latter) Taking the assumption that they lost more voters to Reform, than they lost to Labour or Lib Dems. Would moving towards more sensible grown up politics work?" IMO yes. But what do I know  | |||
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"I really hope it’s Braverman or Priti Patel. For the pure theatre of it surely? Neither of them are remotely capable of leading a credible opposition! Tories lurching hard right simply plays into Labours hands, given their huge majority, they’ll be in power for decades laughing at an opposition that hardly anybody would vote for." I don’t really care if it plays into Labour’s hands, it would drive the Tories to the right, so they’d be fighting Reform, we’ve seen that parties don’t win from the extremes, they win from the centre. | |||
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"I really hope it’s Braverman or Priti Patel. For the pure theatre of it surely? Neither of them are remotely capable of leading a credible opposition! Tories lurching hard right simply plays into Labours hands, given their huge majority, they’ll be in power for decades laughing at an opposition that hardly anybody would vote for. I don’t really care if it plays into Labour’s hands, it would drive the Tories to the right, so they’d be fighting Reform, we’ve seen that parties don’t win from the extremes, they win from the centre." Ahh, I see your point! Let the Tories implode hard right!  | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism. It will be interesting to see what they do. Battle Reform for the "foreigners out" brigade, or come back to some form of grown up politics. They need to move back towards John Major and David Cameron territory (but with more backbone than the latter) Taking the assumption that they lost more voters to Reform, than they lost to Labour or Lib Dems. Would moving towards more sensible grown up politics work? IMO yes. But what do I know "Hmmm. But Reform voters seem to be attracted to, let's be kind, less grown up politics. | |||
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"I really hope it’s Braverman or Priti Patel. For the pure theatre of it surely? Neither of them are remotely capable of leading a credible opposition! Tories lurching hard right simply plays into Labours hands, given their huge majority, they’ll be in power for decades laughing at an opposition that hardly anybody would vote for." Decades? No. | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism." Of course they will go to the right. They will appease Farage, and look to pull back the right vote. From that position, assuming Farage gets what he wants they will begin slowly to dismantle the right and try to land centre by year 4. In my opinion this will be too late, and the only thing that will push the voters towards them is if Starmer has been replaced and labour head out left. I have said this for a long time, let’s see if I’m right or wrong  | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism. Of course they will go to the right. They will appease Farage, and look to pull back the right vote. From that position, assuming Farage gets what he wants they will begin slowly to dismantle the right and try to land centre by year 4. In my opinion this will be too late, and the only thing that will push the voters towards them is if Starmer has been replaced and labour head out left. I have said this for a long time, let’s see if I’m right or wrong "Agreed. I think they will lurch right but I think that is a mistake because moderates are tired of it all! | |||
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"I really hope it’s Braverman or Priti Patel. For the pure theatre of it surely? Neither of them are remotely capable of leading a credible opposition! Tories lurching hard right simply plays into Labours hands, given their huge majority, they’ll be in power for decades laughing at an opposition that hardly anybody would vote for. Decades? No." Genuinely intrigued why you say “no” With the size of Labour’s majority, they’d have to turn hard left to decimate that in one term! History suggests at least a decade in power for Labour from here on, maybe longer if the Tories can’t rebuild. Farage / Reform will implode from their navel gazing rhetoric, that said, if they do manage to focus on the centre right, the Tories are fucked as they’ll have a credible alternative to battle against for votes. Starmer isn’t going to ‘do a Johnson’, he’s far too clever for that! | |||
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"If the Tories lurch to the right in reaction to Reform they are making a mistake. Reclaim the centre ground with more moderate policies. Appeal to sensible small C conservative British people who are not comfortable with extremism. Of course they will go to the right. They will appease Farage, and look to pull back the right vote. From that position, assuming Farage gets what he wants they will begin slowly to dismantle the right and try to land centre by year 4. In my opinion this will be too late, and the only thing that will push the voters towards them is if Starmer has been replaced and labour head out left. I have said this for a long time, let’s see if I’m right or wrong
Agreed. I think they will lurch right but I think that is a mistake because moderates are tired of it all!"There is no reason not to go this way. They have no power base and form an inept opposition, they need to pull in from the right and take the damage at the stage that it doesn't hurt them. Patel and Braverman I guess will lead the way, if not in full view it will be behind the scenes with Farage. They were joining up with him 12 months ago in full view of all. | |||
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"The party has to resolve the ideological conflict between corporatism and social conservatism or some way to reconcile both. I don't know who is capable of doing that. It's very similar to the ideological conflict for Labour between the economic left and the social progressives. Starmer managed to get them all together, partly due to the failure of Tories." They need to get back to true conservative values, before they will win back their core. I agree they lost their way with this and looked unrecognisable from labour and labour from conservative, it becomes a no brainer at that point. | |||
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"The party has to resolve the ideological conflict between corporatism and social conservatism or some way to reconcile both. I don't know who is capable of doing that. It's very similar to the ideological conflict for Labour between the economic left and the social progressives. Starmer managed to get them all together, partly due to the failure of Tories. They need to get back to true conservative values, before they will win back their core. I agree they lost their way with this and looked unrecognisable from labour and labour from conservative, it becomes a no brainer at that point. " Yeah Suella has been vocal in criticising the party for just giving lip service about conservatism but doing nothing in favour of conservative values. If she wins leadership, it means the party is shifting to conservative values. If someone like Hunt becomes a leader, it's the pro-corporate group. | |||
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"Count Bin Face thinking of defecting and throwing his lid into the ring." Blasphemy, the Count would never let us down like this  | |||
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"Count Bin Face thinking of defecting and throwing his lid into the ring. Blasphemy, the Count would never let us down like this "Sorry you are right, it was his evil twin Cunt Bin Face | |||
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"The party has to resolve the ideological conflict between corporatism and social conservatism or some way to reconcile both. I don't know who is capable of doing that. It's very similar to the ideological conflict for Labour between the economic left and the social progressives. Starmer managed to get them all together, partly due to the failure of Tories. They need to get back to true conservative values, before they will win back their core. I agree they lost their way with this and looked unrecognisable from labour and labour from conservative, it becomes a no brainer at that point. Yeah Suella has been vocal in criticising the party for just giving lip service about conservatism but doing nothing in favour of conservative values. If she wins leadership, it means the party is shifting to conservative values. If someone like Hunt becomes a leader, it's the pro-corporate group. " If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all. | |||
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"I really hope it’s Braverman or Priti Patel. For the pure theatre of it surely? Neither of them are remotely capable of leading a credible opposition! Tories lurching hard right simply plays into Labours hands, given their huge majority, they’ll be in power for decades laughing at an opposition that hardly anybody would vote for. Decades? No. Genuinely intrigued why you say “no” With the size of Labour’s majority, they’d have to turn hard left to decimate that in one term! History suggests at least a decade in power for Labour from here on, maybe longer if the Tories can’t rebuild. Farage / Reform will implode from their navel gazing rhetoric, that said, if they do manage to focus on the centre right, the Tories are fucked as they’ll have a credible alternative to battle against for votes. Starmer isn’t going to ‘do a Johnson’, he’s far too clever for that! " Decades has to equal minimum of 20 years. That equates to a minimum of winning 4 elections. It won't happen. | |||
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"The party has to resolve the ideological conflict between corporatism and social conservatism or some way to reconcile both. I don't know who is capable of doing that. It's very similar to the ideological conflict for Labour between the economic left and the social progressives. Starmer managed to get them all together, partly due to the failure of Tories. They need to get back to true conservative values, before they will win back their core. I agree they lost their way with this and looked unrecognisable from labour and labour from conservative, it becomes a no brainer at that point. Yeah Suella has been vocal in criticising the party for just giving lip service about conservatism but doing nothing in favour of conservative values. If she wins leadership, it means the party is shifting to conservative values. If someone like Hunt becomes a leader, it's the pro-corporate group. If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all." True there isn't going to be an easy way out. Having said that, it's not going to be an easy journey for Labour either. They could get away with blaming Tories for about a couple of years. It won't be long before people realise that they don't have any solutions to the problems. It would be interesting to see what happens after that. | |||
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"Sunak stepping down in due course (when process for leadership is sorted)." This should be interesting… actually weirdly starmer may play a role in timing’s In theory parliament is on summer recess.. and wouldn’t normally be due back till September and the king’s speech The first decision starmer will have to make… does he cancel summer recess? | |||
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"If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all." What's wrong with dull? Politics should be dull. It's not a reality TV show for entertainment. | |||
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"The party has to resolve the ideological conflict between corporatism and social conservatism or some way to reconcile both. I don't know who is capable of doing that. It's very similar to the ideological conflict for Labour between the economic left and the social progressives. Starmer managed to get them all together, partly due to the failure of Tories. They need to get back to true conservative values, before they will win back their core. I agree they lost their way with this and looked unrecognisable from labour and labour from conservative, it becomes a no brainer at that point. " This is true, their lurch to the right, to appease the ERG and other hard right factions, has resulted in their worst ever election loss. Time for pragmatic one nation Tories to take over the reigns and lead them back to competency. | |||
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"If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all. What's wrong with dull? Politics should be dull. It's not a reality TV show for entertainment. " Absolutely this, there’s no need for a Churchillian inspirational leader, we need a dull pragmatist who makes the country work. People need to learn from how Corbyn, Truss and Johnson failed, not repeat their mistakes. | |||
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"If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all. What's wrong with dull? Politics should be dull. It's not a reality TV show for entertainment. Absolutely this, there’s no need for a Churchillian inspirational leader, we need a dull pragmatist who makes the country work. People need to learn from how Corbyn, Truss and Johnson failed, not repeat their mistakes." Fully agree, politics is too important for 'celebrity' types, we need a calm, steady pragmatist. | |||
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"I wonder how the knee jerk reaction today may backfire as labour shape political discourse? Immigration (especially boat people) is kept hot by the policies (Rwanda), the supportive press (was quite Tory) and the voices seeking to make hay. Those winds will changes as we see labour focus on their priorities. The opponents need to be able to shout down labour policies. And they will find it harder to bring up their win stories. A hard right anti woke anti immigration works today. But may all seem a bit off point in a years time. " unless in a years time imigration goes up | |||
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"If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all. What's wrong with dull? Politics should be dull. It's not a reality TV show for entertainment. " It depends a lot on the situation. If the country is doing well, you need someone dull to maintain the status quo. If people perceive that there are numerous problems and things have to completely change, that's when people will end up voting for someone radical either on the left or on the right. I wouldn't be surprised if UK reaches that stage. After all, other countries in Europe are already there. | |||
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"I wonder how the knee jerk reaction today may backfire as labour shape political discourse? Immigration (especially boat people) is kept hot by the policies (Rwanda), the supportive press (was quite Tory) and the voices seeking to make hay. Those winds will changes as we see labour focus on their priorities. The opponents need to be able to shout down labour policies. And they will find it harder to bring up their win stories. A hard right anti woke anti immigration works today. But may all seem a bit off point in a years time. " It’s been ‘off point’ for about a decade but that hasn’t stopped the Tories pulling themselves apart over them. Hopefully there will be some stability in British politics for a while and all that nonsense can be relegated back to the 70s where it belongs  | |||
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"I wonder how the knee jerk reaction today may backfire as labour shape political discourse? Immigration (especially boat people) is kept hot by the policies (Rwanda), the supportive press (was quite Tory) and the voices seeking to make hay. Those winds will changes as we see labour focus on their priorities. The opponents need to be able to shout down labour policies. And they will find it harder to bring up their win stories. A hard right anti woke anti immigration works today. But may all seem a bit off point in a years time. " Largely depends if Labour continues the policy of "look at those foriegners in that small boat over there" that eventually backfired on the Tories. And if the media still sells as many papers with 'outrage about immigrants' style headlines. | |||
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"If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all. What's wrong with dull? Politics should be dull. It's not a reality TV show for entertainment. " It is all in the context of the posts, dull as not inspiring the tory voters to return.  | |||
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"If Hunt takes the leadership I believe he will still need Braverman and Patel to steer the right in the background, but that might not be enough for those that only see things at a simple face value. Hunt and Starmer at PM questions would be dull and really offer less than before. The way out of this is not going to be easy at all. What's wrong with dull? Politics should be dull. It's not a reality TV show for entertainment. Absolutely this, there’s no need for a Churchillian inspirational leader, we need a dull pragmatist who makes the country work. People need to learn from how Corbyn, Truss and Johnson failed, not repeat their mistakes." You are not following along with the posts between myself and lostin... We are talking about social conservatism and inspiring the core to return. You are describing a leader being steady.. | |||
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