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"I ask this because recently he have made the headlines for the wrong reasons. What is your view about it? I think that as he is representing the catholic church, his views should be constructive ones and in good light "The controversy is over translation - spanish is his first language and although he is fluent in Italian some of what he said, and intended to say, got lost in idiom. You have to ask yourself what, if anything, he said that was wrong except to the peal-clutching “be-nice, say nothing, tale offence at everything brigade”? He pointed out that men with active sex lives that are not in accordance to Catholic teaching should not be allowed to become priests, especially in light of recent issues with priests on gay sex sites, incidents such as a priest in the US being caught having bondage sex on the altar of his church, another in Poland being prosecuted for letting someone die of an overdose of ketamine during an orgy in the presbertery, and others besides. He also said gossip (I think by that he meant more slander) as a mechanism to destroy the professional reputation of clerics in order to gain advancement in your career is both wrong and harmful - and aigain, whose really going to argue with that? It seems the Italian press have gopne overboard at his colloquial translation of an Argantian phrase that lost its meaning in translation. | |||
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"I ask this because recently he have made the headlines for the wrong reasons. What is your view about it? I think that as he is representing the catholic church, his views should be constructive ones and in good light
The controversy is over translation - spanish is his first language and although he is fluent in Italian some of what he said, and intended to say, got lost in idiom.
You have to ask yourself what, if anything, he said that was wrong except to the peal-clutching “be-nice, say nothing, tale offence at everything brigade”? He pointed out that men with active sex lives that are not in accordance to Catholic teaching should not be allowed to become priests, especially in light of recent issues with priests on gay sex sites, incidents such as a priest in the US being caught having bondage sex on the altar of his church, another in Poland being prosecuted for letting someone die of an overdose of ketamine during an orgy in the presbertery, and others besides. He also said gossip (I think by that he meant more slander) as a mechanism to destroy the professional reputation of clerics in order to gain advancement in your career is both wrong and harmful - and aigain, whose really going to argue with that? It seems the Italian press have gopne overboard at his colloquial translation of an Argantian phrase that lost its meaning in translation.
"The OP may be refering to the fact that it was reported that he said 'These Fagots' Shouldn't be allowed to become . . .' | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not." He has a lot of people who blindly believe everything he says. That comes with a lot of responsibility. | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not. He has a lot of people who blindly believe everything he says. That comes with a lot of responsibility." Like I said: 'it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not.' | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not. He has a lot of people who blindly believe everything he says. That comes with a lot of responsibility." The fallacy is that Catholics are obliged to believe every word that falls out of the mouth of the Pope - the Pope is simply the Bishop of Rome and therefore the “first amongst equals” of the bishops of the church with the extra responsibility of the governance of the church. If the Pope says that the sky is green then I’m not obliged to believe him, or even pay the slightest attention to anything he says on the matter of the sky, or the climate, or anything else other than in terms of defining issues of faith and morals, and even then, he has very limited room to manouvre on that as any “ex-cathedra” statements have to be made in consisctency with church teaching, biblical precedent and in unions with the entire college of bishops. As for believing in God, it’s a personal choice and faith involves the application of reason - how you apply that reason is what determines what you believe. Cheap insults of “sky daddy” and medieval science deniers and everything else that gets thrown about convinces no-one. If you believe in somethign you believe in something, if not, well that’s up to you I suppose. Finally, going back to the term “faggot”, like I said, when you break the language down it got lost in translation. | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not. If the pope offended gay men and you offended Catholics is the pot calling the kettle black ?" How have I offended Catholics? By wondering how people still believe in God | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not. He has a lot of people who blindly believe everything he says. That comes with a lot of responsibility. The fallacy is that Catholics are obliged to believe every word that falls out of the mouth of the Pope - the Pope is simply the Bishop of Rome and therefore the “first amongst equals” of the bishops of the church with the extra responsibility of the governance of the church. If the Pope says that the sky is green then I’m not obliged to believe him, or even pay the slightest attention to anything he says on the matter of the sky, or the climate, or anything else other than in terms of defining issues of faith and morals, and even then, he has very limited room to manouvre on that as any “ex-cathedra” statements have to be made in consisctency with church teaching, biblical precedent and in unions with the entire college of bishops. As for believing in God, it’s a personal choice and faith involves the application of reason - how you apply that reason is what determines what you believe. Cheap insults of “sky daddy” and medieval science deniers and everything else that gets thrown about convinces no-one. If you believe in somethign you believe in something, if not, well that’s up to you I suppose. Finally, going back to the term “faggot”, like I said, when you break the language down it got lost in translation. " It's not that they're obligated to believe. I didn't mean when the pope is infallible mode. Lots of his followers just believe everything he says. That comes with responsibility. | |||
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"I ask this because recently he have made the headlines for the wrong reasons. What is your view about it? I think that as he is representing the catholic church, his views should be constructive ones and in good light "I disagree. The Pope is the representative of the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church's position is that gay people are sinful and not worthy of our respect, that's how the Pope should speak about them. | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language." It is, but he didn't use the word "faggot", he used "frociaggine". Are you qualified to say that "frociaggine" is an exact equivalent to "faggot"? | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. It is, but he didn't use the word "faggot", he used "frociaggine". Are you qualified to say that "frociaggine" is an exact equivalent to "faggot"?" Oh dear the splitting hairs brigade are back - YES. Absolutely. It is meant as a 'Vulgarity' towards homosexuals. | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language." "It is, but he didn't use the word "faggot", he used "frociaggine". Are you qualified to say that "frociaggine" is an exact equivalent to "faggot"?" "Oh dear the splitting hairs brigade are back - YES. Absolutely. It is meant as a 'Vulgarity' towards homosexuals." "Poof" is a vulgarity towards homosexuals, but it's seen as considerably less offensive than "faggot". "Queer" used to be a vulgarity towards homosexuals, but now it's seen as a badge of honour. Are you completely sure that "frociaggine" is an exact equivalent to "faggot", or is it closer to "effeminate", which is on the milder side of insults? Are you sure you're taking into account today's usage, as well as the usage that was current when the Pope was learning Italian? | |||
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YES IT IS:
is an f-pejorative in the Italian language
frociaggine
Translation of "frociaggine" in English
Noun
frociaggine f (plural frociaggini)
(vulgar, derogatory) faggotry
frociaggine
Translation of "frociaggine" in English
faggotry
Examples:
Ferma la diffusione della frociaggine.
Stop the spread of faggotry!
Fermiamo la diffusione della frociaggine.
Stop the spread of faggotry.
Fermate la diffusione della frociaggine.
Stop the spread of faggotry.
Yes. Pretty clear. | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not." One would hope the Pope is a believer | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not. One would hope the Pope is a believer "Davey Jones was a Believer, and he thought love was only true in fairy tales. . . | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language." No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. | |||
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"Surprised that anyone still believes all of this 'God' malarkey. As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not. One would hope the Pope is a believer
Davey Jones was a Believer, and he thought love was only true in fairy tales. . . "It is for most of us  | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense." Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too. | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too. "Or faggots to burn faggots 
BTW I was expecting this response from you  | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too.
Or faggots to burn faggots
BTW I was expecting this response from you "Good to see that you recognise that the answer was the proper answer even before I answered. (kinda makes me wonder why you wrote what you wrote then really). But Hey Ho | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too.
Or faggots to burn faggots
BTW I was expecting this response from you
Good to see that you recognise that the answer was the proper answer even before I answered. (kinda makes me wonder why you wrote what you wrote then really). But Hey Ho"I didn't say I agreed with you. Things can be incorrectly translated or lost in translation. | |||
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"I ask this because recently he have made the headlines for the wrong reasons. What is your view about it? I think that as he is representing the catholic church, his views should be constructive ones and in good light
The controversy is over translation - spanish is his first language and although he is fluent in Italian some of what he said, and intended to say, got lost in idiom.
You have to ask yourself what, if anything, he said that was wrong except to the peal-clutching “be-nice, say nothing, tale offence at everything brigade”? He pointed out that men with active sex lives that are not in accordance to Catholic teaching should not be allowed to become priests, especially in light of recent issues with priests on gay sex sites, incidents such as a priest in the US being caught having bondage sex on the altar of his church, another in Poland being prosecuted for letting someone die of an overdose of ketamine during an orgy in the presbertery, and others besides. He also said gossip (I think by that he meant more slander) as a mechanism to destroy the professional reputation of clerics in order to gain advancement in your career is both wrong and harmful - and aigain, whose really going to argue with that? It seems the Italian press have gopne overboard at his colloquial translation of an Argantian phrase that lost its meaning in translation.
The OP may be refering to the fact that it was reported that he said 'These Fagots' Shouldn't be allowed to become . . .'"Yes. I am referring to that too. | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too.
Or faggots to burn faggots
BTW I was expecting this response from you
Good to see that you recognise that the answer was the proper answer even before I answered. (kinda makes me wonder why you wrote what you wrote then really). But Hey Ho
I didn't say I agreed with you. Things can be incorrectly translated or lost in translation."This wasn't however. | |||
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"I don't think the argument is anything to do with the churches position on Homosexuality. It was more to do with the derisory and bigoted use of his language." and? Has he broken any laws? He still free to say what he want even if you dont agree with it, im sure we all say stuff others dont agree with or find offensive at one time or another, perhaps none of us she be allowed an opinion eh in case we hurt someonrs feelings? Would that be better | |||
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"I don't think the argument is anything to do with the churches position on Homosexuality. It was more to do with the derisory and bigoted use of his language.and? Has he broken any laws? He still free to say what he want even if you dont agree with it, im sure we all say stuff others dont agree with or find offensive at one time or another, perhaps none of us she be allowed an opinion eh in case we hurt someonrs feelings? Would that be better" Well, if you think it's okay to be bigoted and outspoken about homosexuality, I think you will find many more people feel very differently. Go you | |||
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"I don't think the argument is anything to do with the churches position on Homosexuality. It was more to do with the derisory and bigoted use of his language.and? Has he broken any laws? He still free to say what he want even if you dont agree with it, im sure we all say stuff others dont agree with or find offensive at one time or another, perhaps none of us she be allowed an opinion eh in case we hurt someonrs feelings? Would that be better Well, if you think it's okay to be bigoted and outspoken about homosexuality, I think you will find many more people feel very differently. Go you "go me lol i just think people should be able to say what they want if it dosent break the law, some people offend me with what they say i dont think they should be stopped from saying it, and i think a lot less people than you think feel differently, most people couldnt give a fuck either way, theres a small minority who like being offensive and there is a small minority who like being offended, most other people have more important things in there lives to get upset about | |||
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"Now there's a funny thing. I said higher up . . . ******As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not.****** "the op is about him speaking in a good light, im pointing out as long as he not breaking the law who should be able to say watever he belives however he wants to say it, im sure you wouldnt like being told how you can and cant talk, u seem to be under the impression i agree with him or something | |||
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"Now there's a funny thing. I said higher up . . . ******As a person, I suppose he has a right - within law - to say whatever he likes. But it's not really what he says that is the issue, but more what he said and whether you agree with it or not.****** the op is about him speaking in a good light, im pointing out as long as he not breaking the law who should be able to say watever he belives however he wants to say it, im sure you wouldnt like being told how you can and cant talk, u seem to be under the impression i agree with him or something"I said: *****The OP may be refering to the fact that it was reported that he said 'These Fagots' Shouldn't be allowed to become . . .**** The OP replied: ****Yes. I am referring to that too.**** | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too.
Or faggots to burn faggots
BTW I was expecting this response from you
Good to see that you recognise that the answer was the proper answer even before I answered. (kinda makes me wonder why you wrote what you wrote then really). But Hey Ho
I didn't say I agreed with you. Things can be incorrectly translated or lost in translation.
This wasn't however. "It's nice that people can read other people's mind. How do you do it? | |||
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"I don't think the argument is anything to do with the churches position on Homosexuality. It was more to do with the derisory and bigoted use of his language.and? Has he broken any laws? He still free to say what he want even if you dont agree with it, im sure we all say stuff others dont agree with or find offensive at one time or another, perhaps none of us she be allowed an opinion eh in case we hurt someonrs feelings? Would that be better Well, if you think it's okay to be bigoted and outspoken about homosexuality, I think you will find many more people feel very differently. Go you go me lol i just think people should be able to say what they want if it dosent break the law, some people offend me with what they say i dont think they should be stopped from saying it, and i think a lot less people than you think feel differently, most people couldnt give a fuck either way, theres a small minority who like being offensive and there is a small minority who like being offended, most other people have more important things in there lives to get upset about"And others who like to feel offended on another's behalf. | |||
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"Nope. The word Faggot and it's meaning is pretty clear in any language. No it's not! Proof: it also means the pile of wood, bundle of sticks used to burn witches. The biblical point of "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than...", swap camel for the correct interpretation of rope, and the analogy makes sense. Read above and keep then keep the context with regard to what the Pope was actually talking about. I don't think he said let's have a chat about homosexuality in the church, oh, and by the way how are those piles of wood doing, we have some witches we need burning !!! Really. Do you? Then again. Maybe he was fixing to cook meatballs too.
Or faggots to burn faggots
BTW I was expecting this response from you
Good to see that you recognise that the answer was the proper answer even before I answered. (kinda makes me wonder why you wrote what you wrote then really). But Hey Ho
I didn't say I agreed with you. Things can be incorrectly translated or lost in translation.
This wasn't however.
It's nice that people can read other people's mind. How do you do it?"Experience.  And the fact that he apologised for it. | |||
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" And others who like to feel offended on another's behalf. " Actually. I'm offended on my behalf - I'm empathetic on others' behalf. As you should be, too. | |||
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" And others who like to feel offended on another's behalf. Actually. I'm offended on my behalf - I'm empathetic on others' behalf. As you should be, too. "I don't feel the need to be offended on anyone's behalf to be the incredibly empathetic person I am. Nor do I feel the need to stand in judgement. If he has apologised, great. However, is he apologising as no offence was meant, and people took it the wrong way? | |||
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" And others who like to feel offended on another's behalf. Actually. I'm offended on my behalf - I'm empathetic on others' behalf. As you should be, too.
I don't feel the need to be offended on anyone's behalf to be the incredibly empathetic person I am.
Nor do I feel the need to stand in judgement. If he has apologised, great. However, is he apologising as no offence was meant, and people took it the wrong way?"Read properly what I said again! ___________________________________ ***** Actually. I'm offended on my behalf ***** - I'm empathetic on others' behalf. ___________________________________ He apologised, and said he was wrong to have used that language. Clear enough. | |||
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" And others who like to feel offended on another's behalf. Actually. I'm offended on my behalf - I'm empathetic on others' behalf. As you should be, too.
I don't feel the need to be offended on anyone's behalf to be the incredibly empathetic person I am.
Nor do I feel the need to stand in judgement. If he has apologised, great. However, is he apologising as no offence was meant, and people took it the wrong way?
Read properly what I said again!
___________________________________
***** Actually. I'm offended on my behalf ***** - I'm empathetic on others' behalf.
___________________________________
He apologised, and said he was wrong to have used that language. Clear enough."Read it the first time Mrs. My first paragraph remains the same (anyone means anyone including you, me and the pope's mother mother, brother and child ).
And if you'd elaborated on his apology, you wouldn't have had to explicate on the post I quoted 
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