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"What the fuck is Labour playing at? Were we hoping for 'less sleaze'? The Labour Party are a shoe in for Govt, or are they trying to blow it ?" Please explain more? | |||
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"What the fuck is Labour playing at? Were we hoping for 'less sleaze'? The Labour Party are a shoe in for Govt, or are they trying to blow it ? Please explain more?" One of the local Labour parties wheeled out a Labour Councillor to make a promo video. In the video she states she's a 'lifelong Tory voter' but is can envisage a real change by voting in a Labour Govt. | |||
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"What the fuck is Labour playing at? Were we hoping for 'less sleaze'? The Labour Party are a shoe in for Govt, or are they trying to blow it ? Please explain more? One of the local Labour parties wheeled out a Labour Councillor to make a promo video. In the video she states she's a 'lifelong Tory voter' but is can envisage a real change by voting in a Labour Govt. " Yep, promo took a few attempts to register, I think mainly due to you leading with sleaze  | |||
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"What the fuck is Labour playing at? Were we hoping for 'less sleaze'? The Labour Party are a shoe in for Govt, or are they trying to blow it ? Please explain more? One of the local Labour parties wheeled out a Labour Councillor to make a promo video. In the video she states she's a 'lifelong Tory voter' but is can envisage a real change by voting in a Labour Govt. " Ah. When you give someone a loaded weapon the first thing they will probably shoot is their foot, lol  | |||
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"What the fuck is Labour playing at? Were we hoping for 'less sleaze'? The Labour Party are a shoe in for Govt, or are they trying to blow it ? Please explain more? One of the local Labour parties wheeled out a Labour Councillor to make a promo video. In the video she states she's a 'lifelong Tory voter' but is can envisage a real change by voting in a Labour Govt. " they are Tory lite in many ways. | |||
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"Well we have Blue Labour now and will soon have Red Labour. What's the difference? At least Starker is booting out the fruitcakes like Abbott." Hmmmm not going to get into an argument about the current political state of affairs But please remember it was the left wing fruitcakes that fought for the NHS, Social housing & the employee legislation like contracts of employment, holiday pay etc Nothing has ever been simply given to workers they have had to fight for them & throughout history those fighting for them have been called fruitcakes or worse. Ladies don't forget you would not have the right to vote if it was not for fruitcakes  | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit " What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019) 
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit " Is there any evidence to suggest this is true? The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze followed by "look at those people in that small boat over there". Over and over again. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit Is there any evidence to suggest this is true? The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze followed by "look at those people in that small boat over there". Over and over again. " Whataboutery | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
"Whataboutery | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit Is there any evidence to suggest this is true? The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze followed by "look at those people in that small boat over there". Over and over again. Whataboutery " No, I asked you for evidence to back up your claim that there will be more sleaze. Referring to the current level of sleaze is a part of the discussion without being whataboutery. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit Is there any evidence to suggest this is true? The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze followed by "look at those people in that small boat over there". Over and over again. Whataboutery No, I asked you for evidence to back up your claim that there will be more sleaze. Referring to the current level of sleaze is a part of the discussion without being whataboutery." We're talking about the evidence! Labour aren't even in power and they're making up a 'lifelong Tory voter' who is actually a Labour Councillor. Straight after your usual delaying tactics (why/what /when/how/can you explain/give evidence) you went straight to into full Whataboutery mode. "The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze" You can't have been alive /awake from 1997 to 2010. Sleaze on steroids  | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit Is there any evidence to suggest this is true? The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze followed by "look at those people in that small boat over there". Over and over again. Whataboutery No, I asked you for evidence to back up your claim that there will be more sleaze. Referring to the current level of sleaze is a part of the discussion without being whataboutery. We're talking about the evidence! Labour aren't even in power and they're making up a 'lifelong Tory voter' who is actually a Labour Councillor. Straight after your usual delaying tactics (why/what /when/how/can you explain/give evidence) you went straight to into full Whataboutery mode. "The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze" You can't have been alive /awake from 1997 to 2010. Sleaze on steroids "It's okay if you don't have a tee evidence, and it's just based on feelings. I was just asking. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery"I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit Is there any evidence to suggest this is true? The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze followed by "look at those people in that small boat over there". Over and over again. Whataboutery No, I asked you for evidence to back up your claim that there will be more sleaze. Referring to the current level of sleaze is a part of the discussion without being whataboutery. We're talking about the evidence! Labour aren't even in power and they're making up a 'lifelong Tory voter' who is actually a Labour Councillor. Straight after your usual delaying tactics (why/what /when/how/can you explain/give evidence) you went straight to into full Whataboutery mode. "The current government is by far the most self serving and corrupt in my lifetime. It's just constant sleaze" You can't have been alive /awake from 1997 to 2010. Sleaze on steroids
It's okay if you don't have a tee evidence, and it's just based on feelings.
I was just asking. "Can you ask in better English please? What is 'a tee evidence'? | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember."If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'? Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on! It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before. This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
"Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson… 25 May 2020 Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists. 30 July 2020 Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019. 25 May 2021 Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021. 28 May 2021 Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister. 26 June 2021 Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier. 8 July 2021 Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found. 26 October 2021 The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021. 10 December 2021 The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire. 18 December 2021 Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over. 6 January 2022 Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring. 2 April 2022 David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July. 11 April 2022 Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June. 29 April 2022 Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June. 17 May 2022 An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July. 25 May 2022 Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder. 30 June 2022 Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist. | |||
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"Can't wait for the Labour list in 10 years - because there will be one. "Of course. ALL govts have sleaze because a) human nature and b) type of humans attracted to being in Govt. | |||
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" This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse. " A testament to the power of the right wing press. | |||
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"Are you OK? I know things are looking pretty shit for the Tories right now with Nigel entering the fray, but you appear to be rambling... Have a day off? "I'm fine thanks. If you cannot comment in a debate without insulting people as 'rambling' then perhaps take a day off yourself. Some people will take a different view to you, that's life. | |||
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" This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse. A testament to the power of the right wing press." 'power' lol Today's Daily Mail headline 'Rishi's Darkest Hour' | |||
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"Can't wait for the Labour list in 10 years - because there will be one. "Of course, it will be massive. They've started already. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
"Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot! | |||
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" This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse. A testament to the power of the right wing press. 'power' lol Today's Daily Mail headline 'Rishi's Darkest Hour' "
Confirmed. | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot! "Lolz let’s just ignore THAT type of sleaze as it is inconvenient and only focus on THIS type. What a joke! From January 2023… Three years, (at least) 22 scandals: The full list facing a government mired in sleaze allegations! https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-years-21-scandals-full-26106331.amp (Looks from the url that one got added after publication LOL) Got Zahawi in there with his tax “mistakes”. Cameron and Greensill. Paterson and Randox. Sharp and the £800k. The peerage to Evgeny Lebedev. Etc etc etc none of those are sexual | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot!
Lolz let’s just ignore THAT type of sleaze as it is inconvenient and only focus on THIS type. What a joke!
From January 2023…
Three years, (at least) 22 scandals: The full list facing a government mired in sleaze allegations!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-years-21-scandals-full-26106331.amp
(Looks from the url that one got added after publication LOL)
Got Zahawi in there with his tax “mistakes”. Cameron and Greensill. Paterson and Randox. Sharp and the £800k. The peerage to Evgeny Lebedev. Etc etc etc none of those are sexual
"Still banging the Tory Sleaze drum on a Labour thread? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot!
Lolz let’s just ignore THAT type of sleaze as it is inconvenient and only focus on THIS type. What a joke!
From January 2023…
Three years, (at least) 22 scandals: The full list facing a government mired in sleaze allegations!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-years-21-scandals-full-26106331.amp
(Looks from the url that one got added after publication LOL)
Got Zahawi in there with his tax “mistakes”. Cameron and Greensill. Paterson and Randox. Sharp and the £800k. The peerage to Evgeny Lebedev. Etc etc etc none of those are sexual
"I have a great book by Iain Dale re New Labour sleaze with 140 identified examples. It trumps anything the Tories have done! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot!
Lolz let’s just ignore THAT type of sleaze as it is inconvenient and only focus on THIS type. What a joke!
From January 2023…
Three years, (at least) 22 scandals: The full list facing a government mired in sleaze allegations!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-years-21-scandals-full-26106331.amp
(Looks from the url that one got added after publication LOL)
Got Zahawi in there with his tax “mistakes”. Cameron and Greensill. Paterson and Randox. Sharp and the £800k. The peerage to Evgeny Lebedev. Etc etc etc none of those are sexual
Still banging the Tory Sleaze drum on a Labour thread?
"To be fair your OP was completely cryptic and had to be explained and then the other chap started claiming we will see more of the same (he meant Sleaze) under Labour. It warranted a response. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What the fuck is ***Labour**** playing at? The ***Labour Party*** are a shoe in for Govt, or are they trying to blow it " Yea, that had Tory written all over it. 
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot!
Lolz let’s just ignore THAT type of sleaze as it is inconvenient and only focus on THIS type. What a joke!
From January 2023…
Three years, (at least) 22 scandals: The full list facing a government mired in sleaze allegations!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-years-21-scandals-full-26106331.amp
(Looks from the url that one got added after publication LOL)
Got Zahawi in there with his tax “mistakes”. Cameron and Greensill. Paterson and Randox. Sharp and the £800k. The peerage to Evgeny Lebedev. Etc etc etc none of those are sexual
Still banging the Tory Sleaze drum on a Labour thread?
To be fair your OP was completely cryptic and had to be explained and then the other chap started claiming we will see more of the same (he meant Sleaze) under Labour. It warranted a response."I explained it in my second post, way before this nonsense. If he was speaking about Labour then he was on point, you started with the whataboutery and then proceeded to argue it wasn't
But what about Labour? Is that whataboutery? | |||
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"I said in another thread there'd be more of this if Labour get the levers of power and a couple of posters unconvincingly asked 'more of what'? Sleaze innit What even more sleaze than we have endured over the past 14 years (and in particular since 2019)
Whataboutery
I think you don’t understand that term. It is demonstrable fact that there has been more sleaze with this govt than anything I can remember.
If it walks and talks like whataboutery, guess what? Anyway, I'll indulge you, can we hear some of these 'demonstrable facts'?
Continuing on the theme of Changed Labour sleaze, let us while we await your Tory examples, reflect on New Labour sleaze. After the stunning 1997 election victory, there was John Prescott's diary secretary; Peter Mandelson's Mortgages; Ron Davies' 'Moment of Madness'; David Blunkett and Nannygate; Bernie Ecclestone's £1m Donation; David Kelly mysterious death ;Loans for Lordships; John Prescott's Cocktail Sausage; Lord Irvine's Wallpaper; Margaret Beckett's Air Miles; Cherie Blair's Freebie Holidays - Tessa Jowell's Mortgages; The Dodgy Dossier; Stephen Byers - Jo Moore Burying Bad News; Lobbygate; Badger Watching with Ron Davies; Passports for the Hinduja brothers; Cherie Blair Signing the Hutton Report; Gordon Brown and the Smith Institute; Cherie Blair's 'lecture' tours; Labour MPs expenses fraud and jail time; Keith Vaz; the £100,000 donation to Labour from porn baron Richard Desmond in 2002. A secretive £600,000 donation from eccentric businessman Richard Abrahams in 2007 and on and on!
It’s borderline hysterical to suggest this Government is mired in sleaze like New Labour was. It is the product of a media and political class whose anti-Brexit, anti-Toryism has driven it to distort reality and forget history, so as to conjure up the present government as hellishly worse than anything that has gone before.
This time, Changed Labour haven't even won yet and they're mired in it. Things can only get worse.
Sure but we could be at it all day and I don’t care enough to put in the effort. But as a sop to your question, this is some just under Johnson…
25 May 2020
Dominic Cummings refuses to resign or apologise after the Guardian and Mirror reveal his lockdown-busting trips to north-east England at the height of Covid-19. Johnson stands by his chief aide despite fury from the public, MPs and scientists.
30 July 2020
Charlie Elphicke is found guilty of three counts of sexual [can’t use word] against two women, less than a year after resigning as the Conservative MP for Dover. Elphicke had denied the three charges, two of which related to a parliamentary worker. He was later sentenced to two years in prison. His wife, Natalie Elphicke, succeeded him as MP for Dover in December 2019.
25 May 2021
Rob Roberts, the Conservative MP for Delyn in north Wales, is found by parliament’s independent expert panel to have made “significant” repeated unwanted sexual advances towards a former member of staff, as well as inappropriate comments of a sexual nature. He is suspended for 12 weeks by the Conservatives but allowed to rejointhe party in October 2021.
28 May 2021
Johnson “unwisely” embarked on a £112,000 refurbishment of his official Downing Street flat without knowing how it would be paid for, according to a report by the ethics adviser Christopher Geidt. However, it later emerges that Geidt was not given crucial text messages between Johnson and the Conservative donor David Brownlow, prompting an apology from the prime minister.
26 June 2021
Matt Hancock resigns as health secretary after it emerged he broke social distancing rules by kissing his longtime friend and close aide, Gina Coladangelo, in his ministerial office. The resignation is a huge blow to the authority of Johnson, who had stood by Hancock when the story broke 24 hours earlier.
8 July 2021
Johnson is reprimanded by parliament’s committee on standards for failing to “establish the full facts” about a free holiday to a luxury villa in Mustique. The accommodation was organised by David Ross, the Tory donor and co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, after Johnson “sought and was offered” the use of Ross’s villa, the report found.
26 October 2021
The former Tory minister Owen Paterson is found by parliament’s standards watchdog to have committed an “egregious” breach of lobbying rules. Paterson repeatedly lobbied the government on behalf of two companies that were paying him more than £100,000 a year, the watchdog found. The MP, who maintained his innocence, resigns as the Conservative representative for North Shropshire in November 2021. The subsequent byelection is won by the Liberal Democrats on 16 December 2021.
10 December 2021
The former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths is found by a high court judge to have r @ ped his wife and subjected her to coercive control. Griffiths, who denied the allegations, had stepped down as an MP in November 2019 after a series of claims about his conduct. His wife, Kate Griffiths, who left him when the original stories broke, succeeds him as MP for Burton in Staffordshire.
18 December 2021
Simon Case, the UK’s most senior civil servant, steps down from chairing the investigation into lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street after claims emerged he had hosted an event himself over the same period. The senior civil servant Sue Gray takes over.
6 January 2022
Johnson is revealed to have sought funds to help cover a £112,000 makeover of his Downing Street flat from a Conservative donor while promising to consider plans for a “great exhibition”. Labour accuses the prime minister of corruption, while Johnson apologises for failing to disclose crucial WhatsApp messages to his ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, the previous spring.
2 April 2022
David Warburton, the Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome, is suspended from the Tory parliamentary party after a series of allegations relating to sexual harassment and cocaine use. A investigation by Westminster’s independent complaints and grievance scheme is ongoing as of 1 July.
11 April 2022
Imran Ahmad Khan, the Conservative MP for Wakefield, is found guilty of sexually [can’t use word] a 15-year-old boy after plying him with alcohol at a party in 2008. He resigns as an MP on 28 April, triggering a byelection that Labour wins on 23 June.
29 April 2022
Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, resigns his seat after admitting he twice watched pornography in the House of Commons chamber. His resignation prompts a byelection that results in a decisive Liberal Democrat victory on 23 June.
17 May 2022
An unnamed Conservative MP is arrested on suspicion of r @ pe and other sexual offences. The MP, who has not been publicly named, is ordered to stay away from Westminster while under investigation by the Metropolitan police. He remains on bail as of 1 July.
25 May 2022
Sue Gray publishes a damning report into lockdown-busting parties across Whitehall, revealing that government staff had d*unken brawls, vomited and sang karaoke until dawn while the UK observed strict Covid-19 restrictions on socialising. The prime minister says he is “humbled” and “appalled” but critics doubt his contrition and calls for his resignation grow louder.
30 June 2022
Chris Pincher, the Conservative deputy chief whip, resigns after admitting he had “embarrassed myself and other people” following reports that he d*unkenly groped two men at a private club. It is the second time Pincher has resigned from the whips’ office, having previously stood down in 2017 after he was reported to have made an unwanted pass at a Tory activist.
Let's look at the penultimate example. It's worse that Starmer was in secret talks with Gray, while she's trying to 'investigate' the Prime minister 'objectively' and 'impartially'. The rest of your examples focus mainly sexual misconduct, which are common to all parties. For corruption and non-sexual sleaze, Labour always tops the lot!
Lolz let’s just ignore THAT type of sleaze as it is inconvenient and only focus on THIS type. What a joke!
From January 2023…
Three years, (at least) 22 scandals: The full list facing a government mired in sleaze allegations!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-years-21-scandals-full-26106331.amp
(Looks from the url that one got added after publication LOL)
Got Zahawi in there with his tax “mistakes”. Cameron and Greensill. Paterson and Randox. Sharp and the £800k. The peerage to Evgeny Lebedev. Etc etc etc none of those are sexual
Still banging the Tory Sleaze drum on a Labour thread?
To be fair your OP was completely cryptic and had to be explained and then the other chap started claiming we will see more of the same (he meant Sleaze) under Labour. It warranted a response.". People prefer to judge MPs on what they achieve. Achievements are one hundred times more important than a few minor incidents or mistakes . How many people want to be associated with fully paid up members of the pious and self righteous brigade? | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt." . You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? " Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. | |||
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"Rumours afoot the milkshake was also staged.... " update: O F publicity stunt. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. "A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants. "Don't understand this question. I was agreeing with you on the Tories using the pandemic for some classic disaster capitalism for them and their friends. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants. "Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. ". With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?. "A peurile and pathetic line of argument from you pat.. Had the Tories listened to the recommendations from the Cygnus review in 2016 there would have been more PPE available, they didn't and NHS staff were put in direct risk, and far too many died helping us the public.. As with the vile and cruel decision by this government to send elderly patients back to care homes knowing some were COVID positive.. And very much as with Boris ignoring the advice to lock down earlier in September 2020 which led to more excess deaths.. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?. "I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers. In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies. Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts. It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today. Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container."Or we could have made it a little easier by having the NHS work together in procurement deals and protocols to minimise the cost to tax payers years before Covid hit. The NHS was and I guess still is a shambles when it comes to being efficient. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container.
Or we could have made it a little easier by having the NHS work together in procurement deals and protocols to minimise the cost to tax payers years before Covid hit.
The NHS was and I guess still is a shambles when it comes to being efficient. "Yes that too. The DHSC need to look at the fragmentation of the NHS and lack of proper integration with Social Care. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container.
Or we could have made it a little easier by having the NHS work together in procurement deals and protocols to minimise the cost to tax payers years before Covid hit.
The NHS was and I guess still is a shambles when it comes to being efficient.
Yes that too. The DHSC need to look at the fragmentation of the NHS and lack of proper integration with Social Care."P.S. I think (would need to check) joined up procurement was a recommendation by Cygnus! | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container.
Or we could have made it a little easier by having the NHS work together in procurement deals and protocols to minimise the cost to tax payers years before Covid hit.
The NHS was and I guess still is a shambles when it comes to being efficient. "...and how exactly would this make personal friends and neighbours of the government more wealthy? You haven't thought this through.  | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container.
Or we could have made it a little easier by having the NHS work together in procurement deals and protocols to minimise the cost to tax payers years before Covid hit.
The NHS was and I guess still is a shambles when it comes to being efficient.
...and how exactly would this make personal friends and neighbours of the government more wealthy?
You haven't thought this through. " | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container.". In 2016 I did not see many people fighting for emergency call off contracts. You have to evaluate the costs against the risks involved. What is wrong with awarding a contact to a crisp maker or pest control company? They may have the skills necessary to obtain more competitive deals. How much knowledge do you actually need to be a specialist PPE supplier. The unusable ppe did not meet required standards for certain areas but it is unclear whether this was the fault of the supplier or the civil servants drawing up and specifying the contract. The ppe referred to could be used in other areas . The fact that we are now destroying ppe is probably good news. It illustrates that we did everything possible to acquire ppe and save lives. Luckily we were world leaders in a vacinnatiob programme so the ppe became unnecessary . Not many people would want others to die in order to use up our stock of ppe.. The fact that we have to destroy it now shows everything was done to save lives in very difficult circumstances. | |||
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"Here’s an idea…we as citizens should not accept govt (or political) sleaze regardless of which colour rosette they wear. Personally I am pissed off with all of them. The frequency and level of sleaze has got to a point where some of it has been normalised! But to hand wave away Tory sleaze because, in your opinion, Labour were worse, is plain silly and will certainly depend on your criteria. For me the audacious scale of the sleaze in recent years has been breath taking, such as PPE and the transfer of £billions of our money to cronies and then saddling us again with the debt.. You forgot to mention that anyone involved in ppe fraud would be prosecuted. ( some already have) How many people would you like to die while we attempted to obtain ppe at a more competitive price ? Quite right. The government did the right thing handing billions of pounds of public money to their pals for largely unusable PPE in the middle of the worst pandemic in living memory. A bizarre comment. What about the authorisation procedures for payments ? The government do not process payments , it is civil servants.
Round and around we go. We have discussed this soooo many times over the last four years! It was a JFDI situation and you clearly don’t understand or have any experience of how govt actually works. . With your vast experience and detailed knowledge can you explain how many people you would like to die while the government tried to obtain more competitive pricing?.
I would have preferred the Govt had not ignored Operation Cygnus in 2016 and established emergency call off contracts with experienced reputable suppliers.
In 2020 it would have been better to actually award contracts to specialist companies with established production and quality control rather than award to hastily set up bogus companies registered in tax havens with no relevant experience or trading history simply because they cane via a VIP lane that was only open to Tory Party contacts and cronies.
Instead of a crisp maker and pest control company I would prefer specialist medical PPE suppliers actually secured the contracts.
It was pointless moving fast if the end result was an unusable PPE product of which there are billions that are still being stored and steadily destroyed st a huge cost to taxpayers even today.
Substandard and unusable PPE saved not one single person as it sat in a container.. In 2016 I did not see many people fighting for emergency
call off contracts. You have to evaluate the costs against the risks involved. What is wrong with awarding a contact to a crisp maker or pest control company? They may have the skills necessary to obtain more competitive deals. How much knowledge do you actually need to be a specialist PPE supplier. The unusable ppe did not meet required standards for certain areas but it is unclear whether this was the fault of the supplier or the civil servants drawing up and specifying the contract. The ppe referred to could be used in other areas . The fact that we are now destroying ppe is probably good news. It illustrates that we did everything possible to acquire ppe and save lives. Luckily we were world leaders in a vacinnatiob programme so the ppe became unnecessary . Not many people would want others to die in order to use up our stock of ppe..
The fact that we have to destroy it now shows everything was done to save lives in very difficult circumstances.
"Twilight zone! Clearly specialist knowledge WAS required as demonstrated by the volumes of unusable PPE taxpayers are now paying £millions per day to store and/or destroy. I mean why award a contract to a British based tax paying company with established supply chain and production capability and capacity when you can pay a company set up days before registered in a tax haven who are acting simply as a middle man and sourcing from China and putting a huge mark up on top as a “finders fee” because they have access to Tory MPs and Ministers? During WWII that would have been considered war profiteering. | |||
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"Yes, but it's OK cos they publicise that they identify as 'centrist' every now and again! " Only just seen this doozy! The trouble is that so many people live in a binary world where they only see black or white (or should that be Blue and Red) and never grey. You do know it is possible to praise and criticise both Labour and Conservatives at the same time right? That it is possible when someone makes a sweeping statement to challenge it? That a person may agree with some policies and disagree with some policies from both parties! Shock horror I know | |||
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"Yes, but it's OK cos they publicise that they identify as 'centrist' every now and again! Only just seen this doozy! The trouble is that so many people live in a binary world where they only see black or white (or should that be Blue and Red) and never grey. You do know it is possible to praise and criticise both Labour and Conservatives at the same time right? That it is possible when someone makes a sweeping statement to challenge it? That a person may agree with some policies and disagree with some policies from both parties! Shock horror I know "Of course I know that. But some lefty posters on here will for instance give no credit for the world class vaccine programme, going straight to 'too late to lock down, cake' angle. They never give praise to Conservatives and resist any and all criticism of Labour Conservatives | |||
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Whoever gets in, we will all be worse off..one way or another.. | |||
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"To coin a phrase from a 1970s sitcom..we're all doomed..
Whoever gets in, we will all be worse off..one way or another.."You're a glass-half-empty kind of person aren't you _essi? | |||
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"To coin a phrase from a 1970s sitcom..we're all doomed..
Whoever gets in, we will all be worse off..one way or another..
You're a glass-half-empty kind of person aren't you _essi?"Nope.. Just being realistic | |||
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"Yes, but it's OK cos they publicise that they identify as 'centrist' every now and again! Only just seen this doozy! The trouble is that so many people live in a binary world where they only see black or white (or should that be Blue and Red) and never grey. You do know it is possible to praise and criticise both Labour and Conservatives at the same time right? That it is possible when someone makes a sweeping statement to challenge it? That a person may agree with some policies and disagree with some policies from both parties! Shock horror I know
Of course I know that. But some lefty posters on here will for instance give no credit for the world class vaccine programme, going straight to 'too late to lock down, cake' angle.
They never give praise to Conservatives and resist any and all criticism of Labour Conservatives"the actual roll out was good. Our lawyers did a good job with making the AZ contract water tight too. Both of which helped get us off to a cracking start. | |||
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"Yes, but it's OK cos they publicise that they identify as 'centrist' every now and again! Only just seen this doozy! The trouble is that so many people live in a binary world where they only see black or white (or should that be Blue and Red) and never grey. You do know it is possible to praise and criticise both Labour and Conservatives at the same time right? That it is possible when someone makes a sweeping statement to challenge it? That a person may agree with some policies and disagree with some policies from both parties! Shock horror I know
Of course I know that. But some lefty posters on here will for instance give no credit for the world class vaccine programme, going straight to 'too late to lock down, cake' angle.
They never give praise to Conservatives and resist any and all criticism of Labour Conservatives"If you were around (using your current profile or maybe a different one) during the pandemic you’d have seen me praise Govt for vaccine rollout (and particularly securing first mover advantage). Off the top of my head I cannot think of much else positive though and personally I cannot forgive the PPE scandal, or Hancock’s pub landlord mate getting £20m contract for test tubes, or transferring untested old people out of hospital back into care homes etc etc. For ME the bad far outweighs the good. | |||
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