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Railways to be nationalised.

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By *0shadesOfFilth OP   Man
35 weeks ago

nearby

Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.

Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network

Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.

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By *an DeLyonMan
35 weeks ago

County Durham


"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.

Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network

Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.

"

I'm no expert but I do think a public service like this shoul be nationalised. Any organisation providing an essential service really.

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By (user no longer on site)
35 weeks ago


"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.

Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network

Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.

I'm no expert but I do think a public service like this shoul be nationalised. Any organisation providing an essential service really."

Absolutely!

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
35 weeks ago

Gilfach


"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power ..."

No they won't. Their plan is to do nothing, and just let the current passenger service contracts run out. They'll then create new service organisations to run them. The trains will still be privately owned, and all freight services will be privately run. They aren't "nationalising' anything.


"Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming."

Nonsense, it's just rhetoric to get the socialists on their side.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'


"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power, with a pledge to guarantee the cheapest fares as part of “the biggest reform of our railways for a generation”.

Labour to announce its plan to cut waste and claw back shareholder dividends, saving £2.2bn. It will establish a watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to scrutinise the new system. Passengers will be offered best-price ticket guarantees, automatic delay repay and digital season tickets across the network

Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.

"

Clawback 2.2 billion? Yet they are not saying how much it would cost to do to start with, however.

But Labour also promised to nationalise in the 90's too, and that never happened.

Rail fares are atrociously high and something has to change. So maybe we can all live for a while with the promise, watch our money being spent on feasibility studies. Listen to endless hours of argument in the Commons and still wait for it to fade away into the mist it was born from.

Lets' all come back to this thread in 5 years. lol.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

Ps. Qiuck CBI check:

"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."

Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
35 weeks ago

Central

The train system is a fiasco and it makes sense to stop the money from leaving the system, via dividends, which could be used for investment

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By *usybee73Man
35 weeks ago

in the sticks

actually went on the train yesterday, as attended a meeting in central brum, parked up at kings norton free, and in new st within 15 minutes, return 5.50. saved my fuel and congestion charge.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)

'Under the proposals, they will create a new public sector body named Great British Railways, (where have we heard this before?) as well as establish a "best-price ticket guarantee" for travellers and offer automatic "delay repay" schemes.'

Best price guarantee really means that the ticket price will be just as high, but between the services they would have to offer you the cheaper of the two

And no funding figures at all?

She may as well have just said 'the trains need fixing' and walked off-stage.

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By *0shadesOfFilth OP   Man
35 weeks ago

nearby


"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:

"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."

Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years."

£400bn then

Add the half a million council houses promised, a trillion odd to address climate change (housing, transport etc )

An ageing generation of pensionless renters

On a deferred state pension.

Nhs money for 40 new hospitals, 50,000 nurses etc

£8million a day for asylum and tens billions for their overseas resettlement

Where’s the money coming from

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'


"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:

"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."

Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years.

£400bn then

Add the half a million council houses promised, a trillion odd to address climate change (housing, transport etc )

An ageing generation of pensionless renters

On a deferred state pension.

Nhs money for 40 new hospitals, 50,000 nurses etc

£8million a day for asylum and tens billions for their overseas resettlement

Where’s the money coming from "

Not forgeting Royal Mail.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
35 weeks ago

Pershore

This would be an unmitigated disaster. For a start, a left wing government nationalising private companies would but financial markets into a tailspin. The huge cost would starve all other projects of funds. Railways would descend into an operational basket case like the NHS and Post Office. The solution, is for government to work with private industry via regulation and incentives to make things work.

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By *irldnCouple
35 weeks ago

Brighton

I wonder if there is any country in the World where we would not have to bother with any of this crap. I want to live there. Where things just work.

Ideologically I believe the railways (and train operators) should be owned by the state. But reversing decades of private ownership is going to be a shitshow.

Mr Discretion is right IMO, they will just let each franchise run its course and then take back control when it expires.

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By *oversfunCouple
35 weeks ago

ayrshire


"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power ...

No they won't. Their plan is to do nothing, and just let the current passenger service contracts run out. They'll then create new service organisations to run them. The trains will still be privately owned, and all freight services will be privately run. They aren't "nationalising' anything.

Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.

Nonsense, it's just rhetoric to get the socialists on their side."

lets see your evidence of this then

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By (user no longer on site)
35 weeks ago

All the contrived 'markets' should be renationalised. Personally I'd have put water ahead of the railways. Electric, gas etc. to follow.

Businesses wishing to stay in the sector could be invited to tender to operate the natonalised industries every few years.

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By *ean counterMan
35 weeks ago

Kettering

Unfortunately the traditional railway worker has had their work ethic handed down from the previous generations who probably worked for British Rail. This means that they don't give a toss whether the trains run on time or not !

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
35 weeks ago

Gilfach


"So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)"

The current train service operators (companies like GWR) don't own any of the trains, or the track, they just have a 5 year licence to operate the services. The track is state owned, and the trains are owned by investment companies known as ROSCOs (ROlling Stock operating Companies).

Labour's plan is to leave the ROSCOs as they are, and just let the services contracts expire, taking them over as they do. That way they don't have to pay any compensation to anyone.

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By *ustaboutSaneMan
35 weeks ago

My World


"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:

"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."

Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years."

Surely this all depends on how it is achieved.

There could be ten different methods resulting in 10 different costs.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

Including the Paul Daniels method

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By *irldnCouple
35 weeks ago

Brighton


"So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)

The current train service operators (companies like GWR) don't own any of the trains, or the track, they just have a 5 year licence to operate the services. The track is state owned, and the trains are owned by investment companies known as ROSCOs (ROlling Stock operating Companies).

Labour's plan is to leave the ROSCOs as they are, and just let the services contracts expire, taking them over as they do. That way they don't have to pay any compensation to anyone."

Not commenting on whether this will result in a good outcome but it does seem a sensible way to go forward.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

Labour had better get their skates. Most terminate soon.

-----------------------------

Crossrail

Dates 25 May 2025 to May 2032

Sheffield Supertram

Dates 22 March 2024 to date (expected to run until at least 2029; Network Rail track access contract runs to 1 April 2028)

Caledonian Sleeper

Dates 25 June 2023 to date

TransPennine Express

Dates 28 May 2023 to date

West Coast Partnership

Dates 15 October 2023 to 18 October 2026

East Midlands

Dates 16 October 2022 to 17 October 2026

Great Western

Dates 26 June 2022 to 21 June 2025

Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern

Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025

ScotRail

Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025 (with options for up to ten years total)

Chiltern

Dates 31 December 2021 to 31 March 2025

South Eastern

Dates 17 October 2021 to 12 October 2024

West Midlands

Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024

East Anglia

Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024

Essex Thameside Railway

Dates 25 July 2021 to 19 July 2025 (originally to 23 July 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

20 July 2025 to 16 July 2028 (with options to 9 July 2033 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)

South West

Dates 30 May 2021 to 24 May 2025 (originally to 27 May 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

25 May 2025 to 20 May 2028

Wales & Borders

Dates 7 February 2021 to 6 February 2026

Cross Country

Dates 18 October 2020 to 14 October 2023

15 October 2023 to 16 October 2027

Northern

Dates 1 March 2020 to 15 May 2021 (original contract: Barton-on-Humber service)

1 March 2020 to 28 February 2022 (original contract: remaining services)

1 March 2022 to 28 February 2027 (contract extension)

InterCity East Coast ?

Dates 24 June 2018 to 27 June 2020 (original contract)

28 June 2020 to 21 June 2025 (contract extension) (originally to 24 June 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

22 June 2025 to 19 June 2027 (with options to 15 June 2030 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)

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By *ustintime69Man
35 weeks ago

london


"This would be an unmitigated disaster. For a start, a left wing government nationalising private companies would but financial markets into a tailspin. The huge cost would starve all other projects of funds. Railways would descend into an operational basket case like the NHS and Post Office. The solution, is for government to work with private industry via regulation and incentives to make things work."

What like HS2?

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By *eroy1000Man
35 weeks ago

milton keynes


"So. Louise Haigh. Shadow Transport says that they will not be looking to reduce prices and will work with the private operators using their trains (and this means?)

The current train service operators (companies like GWR) don't own any of the trains, or the track, they just have a 5 year licence to operate the services. The track is state owned, and the trains are owned by investment companies known as ROSCOs (ROlling Stock operating Companies).

Labour's plan is to leave the ROSCOs as they are, and just let the services contracts expire, taking them over as they do. That way they don't have to pay any compensation to anyone."

The BBC article also mentions letting the contracts expire and then the government take on the contract themselves. However they note that in doing that the government also has to take on the current operators debts, leases and liabilities like workers pensions. If accurate I would say it's not free at all. Also if the government want to invest in the network or buy back trains then again they have to pay. Of course when I say government paying it is all of us paying.

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By *abioMan
35 weeks ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Labour had better get their skates. Most terminate soon.

-----------------------------

Crossrail

Dates 25 May 2025 to May 2032

Sheffield Supertram

Dates 22 March 2024 to date (expected to run until at least 2029; Network Rail track access contract runs to 1 April 2028)

Caledonian Sleeper

Dates 25 June 2023 to date

TransPennine Express

Dates 28 May 2023 to date

West Coast Partnership

Dates 15 October 2023 to 18 October 2026

East Midlands

Dates 16 October 2022 to 17 October 2026

Great Western

Dates 26 June 2022 to 21 June 2025

Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern

Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025

ScotRail

Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025 (with options for up to ten years total)

Chiltern

Dates 31 December 2021 to 31 March 2025

South Eastern

Dates 17 October 2021 to 12 October 2024

West Midlands

Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024

East Anglia

Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024

Essex Thameside Railway

Dates 25 July 2021 to 19 July 2025 (originally to 23 July 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

20 July 2025 to 16 July 2028 (with options to 9 July 2033 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)

South West

Dates 30 May 2021 to 24 May 2025 (originally to 27 May 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

25 May 2025 to 20 May 2028

Wales & Borders

Dates 7 February 2021 to 6 February 2026

Cross Country

Dates 18 October 2020 to 14 October 2023

15 October 2023 to 16 October 2027

Northern

Dates 1 March 2020 to 15 May 2021 (original contract: Barton-on-Humber service)

1 March 2020 to 28 February 2022 (original contract: remaining services)

1 March 2022 to 28 February 2027 (contract extension)

InterCity East Coast ?

Dates 24 June 2018 to 27 June 2020 (original contract)

28 June 2020 to 21 June 2025 (contract extension) (originally to 24 June 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

22 June 2025 to 19 June 2027 (with options to 15 June 2030 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)

"

That is the whole point..

Two things people need to realise

1) because of the pandemic…. And the way franchising contracts were restructured, the railways are already nationalised in everything but name already!

Basically the way franchising agreements works at the moment is that the government pay the TOCs to run trains on a day by day basis, and the Tocs get a set percentage of any profits made if any!

2) the big number would only apply if they were to take over every company on day 1 of a labour government, which is not what would is being proposed!

Because all the franchise agreements all run out within the next 5 years… all that is happening is those contracts are not being renewed and a single entity (great British railways) is taking over running services

Nothing else is changing… network rail will still be dealing with infrastructure, trains are still going be leased from leasing companies!

So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start! For example, when my award winning assisted travel job went to India because it cost less… each company had their own AT department!

The gall of our then bosses asking us to train up the people talking our jobs ( yes that happened!) we said no…. Turned out a year later it was a disaster and everything came back, but the point is all the in house stuff can be centralised!

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By *ellhungvweMan
35 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:

"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."

Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years."

Think you will find £196bn is the standard day return price for a ticket from Brighton to London.

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By *abioMan
35 weeks ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Labour had better get their skates. Most terminate soon.

-----------------------------

Crossrail

Dates 25 May 2025 to May 2032

Sheffield Supertram

Dates 22 March 2024 to date (expected to run until at least 2029; Network Rail track access contract runs to 1 April 2028)

Caledonian Sleeper

Dates 25 June 2023 to date

TransPennine Express

Dates 28 May 2023 to date

West Coast Partnership

Dates 15 October 2023 to 18 October 2026

East Midlands

Dates 16 October 2022 to 17 October 2026

Great Western

Dates 26 June 2022 to 21 June 2025

Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern

Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025

ScotRail

Dates 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2025 (with options for up to ten years total)

Chiltern

Dates 31 December 2021 to 31 March 2025

South Eastern

Dates 17 October 2021 to 12 October 2024

West Midlands

Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024

East Anglia

Dates 19 September 2021 to 14 September 2024

Essex Thameside Railway

Dates 25 July 2021 to 19 July 2025 (originally to 23 July 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

20 July 2025 to 16 July 2028 (with options to 9 July 2033 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)

South West

Dates 30 May 2021 to 24 May 2025 (originally to 27 May 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

25 May 2025 to 20 May 2028

Wales & Borders

Dates 7 February 2021 to 6 February 2026

Cross Country

Dates 18 October 2020 to 14 October 2023

15 October 2023 to 16 October 2027

Northern

Dates 1 March 2020 to 15 May 2021 (original contract: Barton-on-Humber service)

1 March 2020 to 28 February 2022 (original contract: remaining services)

1 March 2022 to 28 February 2027 (contract extension)

InterCity East Coast ?

Dates 24 June 2018 to 27 June 2020 (original contract)

28 June 2020 to 21 June 2025 (contract extension) (originally to 24 June 2023, two year extension option taken by DfT)

22 June 2025 to 19 June 2027 (with options to 15 June 2030 at DfT discretion) (contract extension) (planned)

"

A lot of your details need updating.. don’t know where you got it from…

So… east coast transpennie and northern already run by GBR

Scotrail and the caley sleeper are run by the Scottish government

Wales and border is now transport for wales and run by the Welsh government

Crossrail are operated by TFL….

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By *atEvolutionCouple
35 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

That was mid - 2023 can't find any more updated lists

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By *itonthesideWoman
35 weeks ago

Glasgow


"Labour will fully nationalise the train network within five years of coming to power ...

No they won't. Their plan is to do nothing, and just let the current passenger service contracts run out. They'll then create new service organisations to run them. The trains will still be privately owned, and all freight services will be privately run. They aren't "nationalising' anything.

Claw back shareholder dividends, is a share sell off coming.

Nonsense, it's just rhetoric to get the socialists on their side."

They also didnt say cheaper fares, they said a simpler fare structure

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
35 weeks ago

Gilfach


"So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start!"

Except that when the government takes on the services contracts, it also has to take on all the staff. They can't just sack them, and huge levels of redundancies is not going to be a good look for them. So they'll just have to keep them all and find them new jobs.

No efficiency savings to be made there.

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By (user no longer on site)
35 weeks ago

Long overdue, next up needs to be power and water.

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By *eroy1000Man
35 weeks ago

milton keynes


"So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start!

Except that when the government takes on the services contracts, it also has to take on all the staff. They can't just sack them, and huge levels of redundancies is not going to be a good look for them. So they'll just have to keep them all and find them new jobs.

No efficiency savings to be made there."

Apparently they also have to take on the debts and liabilities like pensions and that's before any money for improvements.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
35 weeks ago

Central


"Ps. Qiuck CBI check:

"The CBI concluded the nationalisation would cost an initial £196bn, which is a lot of money even for a government - it's about 9% of the output of the economy in a year."

Though year on year cost could double this figure in the first 10 years.

£400bn then

Add the half a million council houses promised, a trillion odd to address climate change (housing, transport etc )

An ageing generation of pensionless renters

On a deferred state pension.

Nhs money for 40 new hospitals, 50,000 nurses etc

£8million a day for asylum and tens billions for their overseas resettlement

Where’s the money coming from "

I think that's why they're going to let the operator license expire, before taking each one into full public ownership and operations. Still better than doing nothing about our shambolic system.

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By *anJenny 181Couple
34 weeks ago

Preston

Well let's face it privatisation has not worked with the railways.

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By *roadShoulderzMan
34 weeks ago

Petersfield


"Well let's face it privatisation has not worked with the railways.

"

It worked very well for the likes of Brian Souter and the Directors of Porterbrook who made a killing because the Tories sold taxpayers' assets on the cheap to their mates.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
34 weeks ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"So… savings…. 15 sets of each company duplication for a start!

Except that when the government takes on the services contracts, it also has to take on all the staff. They can't just sack them, and huge levels of redundancies is not going to be a good look for them. So they'll just have to keep them all and find them new jobs.

No efficiency savings to be made there."

they will do what the railway always does redundancies voulentary and negotiated one of the biggest will be delay clerks under BR 1 per shift per control area post privatisation at least 3 per shift per TOC in the area that could be anything upto 15 per shift and they wont be needed once they are all one company .

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