FabSwingers.com forum: "Workshy Britain"

By (user no longer on site) OP
36 weeks ago

Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

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By *ools and the brainCouple
36 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.

No I think it makes good economic sense to evaluate those claiming long term sick.

Offer more help to people in genuine need and out the lazy con artists.

You can't quite tell me that at least 10 thousand of that number aren't pulling a fast one even if it's only 5 that's still a considerable saving.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

In summary.....

Yes.

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By *ake_or_deathMan
36 weeks ago

Manchester

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

Yes. The system has already shifted from 'sick notes' to 'fit notes' in which you are marked as being able to do things even if the attempt pretty much knocks you out. It's just another desperate attempt at a Tory-pleasing headline from a desperate Prime Minister.

It also ignores the increase in the number of people with chronic illness due to Covid - probably because the last thing the Tories want is for people to remember the absolute shit-show of their management of the crisis.

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By *ivenchyMan
36 weeks ago

Maidstone

More deflection from an incompetent and corrupt government.

It pains me to see how client-journalists keep sharing this shite, surely the plight of the country they live in far outweighs their pay packets.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

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By *ellhungvweMan
36 weeks ago

Cheltenham

I am in two minds about this. One the hand if people are genuinely ill then society should look after them. No question about that. On the other hand society can only look after people if others are working to pay for the resources to do that.

I think it is morally wrong to make people who genuinely can’t work work. I also think it is morally wrong for people who can work but don’t to claim a benefit that others put into.

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By *ackdaw52Man
36 weeks ago

Chesterfield

Is there an election coming up??

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By *ieandteaseMan
36 weeks ago

Wiltshire

That's how they get paid. If they had to get real jobs they'd be on the sick.

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By *obilebottomMan
36 weeks ago

All over

All I will say and then not read the thread again is that the way volnurable people are treated is an utter disgrace. Yes mihht be some that work the system. I am really not interested. The misery that they caused disabled people and their families with their ridiculous assesments which did not even stand up in courts shows their inhumane way they treat people. No doubt there will be any minute now 'is my taxes paying for that brigade'. I rather have empathy for the less fortunate tha be a lesser human being. I am out, have fun

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By *ot to giggleWoman
36 weeks ago

Coventry

interesting though in a way - those on long term sick are often on PIP and they have had to jump through hoops for the benefits these days and have regular assessments.

If the health service was better funded and there were services available for those who needed them, there probably wouldnt be as many off sick - mental health services are badly funded and they keep promising to put more into this area and it never happens. I know and have worked with a lot of people with cronic mental health issues that, if they had services to support them, therapies to help them sooner they may have been able to function better earlier and not end up with cronic conditions.

it just seems, in a simplistic way that they are working from it backwards without looking at the solutions to address the problem

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By *ivenchyMan
36 weeks ago

Maidstone

"I am in two minds about this. One the hand if people are genuinely ill then society should look after them. No question about that. On the other hand society can only look after people if others are working to pay for the resources to do that.

I think it is morally wrong to make people who genuinely can’t work work. I also think it is morally wrong for people who can work but don’t to claim a benefit that others put into."

Your point is both correct and valid, but this is not the cause of the current issues this country faces. Such headlines are there purely to deflect from the genuine issues over economic growth that the UK faces.

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By *oft_SensualTV/TS
36 weeks ago

Yorkshire

It's a good idea in so far as letting other medical professionals handle fit notes, which might take some pressure off GPs and practice nurses.

Decent jobs are scarce on the ground and organizational malfeasance is ripe, which doubtless adds to the 2.8m.

The rest of the simplistic, one dimensional Tory bullshit I'll pass on ta!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
36 weeks ago

"interesting though in a way - those on long term sick are often on PIP and they have had to jump through hoops for the benefits these days and have regular assessments.

it just seems, in a simplistic way that they are working from it backwards without looking at the solutions to address the problem"

Totally agree. And bashing those already vulnerable people as workshy is wrong.

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By *ustincamebridgeCouple
36 weeks ago

manchester

Blaming the sick is like blaming immigration

An mp who ‘earns’ (is given) £93,000 Per tear plus expenses needs to focus the blame elsewhere. The tactic that has fools blaming each other works well for those in power

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By *lym4realCouple
36 weeks ago

plymouth

Yep yet anothe tactic to shift the blame and get people all hot under the collar and not thinking straight ? and as friend of ours who worked for HMRC pointed out the level of tax fraud/evasion far out strips that lost to benefit fraud but we employ more than double the numbers to catch benefit fraud than tax evasion/fraud ?? and is there to many claiming sick benefits ? who knows ?? but most who have appealed the decision to have their's stopped or not granted have won the appeal ?? and always feels good to beat up on and blame some of the most vunerable in our society though ?? as it couldn't ever happen to us ? right ??? and a fair few who cheered on all the changes to punish the poorest/work shy for the problems caused by mostly rich bankers are now by all accounts having to dealing with what they all cheered on and voted for and they aren't a very happy bunch ?? 2 child cap ?? spare bedroom tax ?? capped housing benefits ?? capped savings ?? 2nd mortage ?? and we do know afew where working makes no or little finacial sense ? work that out ??xxx

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By *os19Man
36 weeks ago

Edmonton

Now a days it seems a lot of people / claimants seem to suffer from depression or mental health I think this type of illness whilst genuine can also be easy to put it on.Lets be honest if someone said they were feeling suicidal would we really be able to be certain they are genuine or trying to get out of working.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

One thing this government is fantastic at is focusing on the cost of services and schemes it's responsible for. Especially around election time.

Instead, why not try to solve the issue at the root cause rather than work backwards?

Instead of privatising services, run them on a not for profit 'at cost' basis, where any surplus generated is reinvested, rather than lining the pockets of shareholders. Instead of dishing out contracts to donors and buddies why not invest in the public sector where policies and motivation for providing a service are end user focused rather than designed and implemented to minimise cost and maximise return on investment.

Instead of having farcical, long winded and often irrelevant processes to apply for support and services (everything from health care, housing and immigration to education and utilities) why not have simplified, rapid, streamlined processes to speed things up and reduce the cost of inefficiency.

But no.

Instead it's simpler to use smoke and mirrors to create division in the population, preserve the status quo and ensure that social inequality perpetuates and that public money goes to the wrong beneficiaries.

And still people will keep voting for them.......

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By *melie LALWoman
36 weeks ago

Peterborough

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

Sort the NHS out and the majority will get back to work after their one or two year sodding waits for ops and treatment.

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By *eyond PurityCouple
36 weeks ago

Lincolnshire

I work in a role where I have to look at people who are linked to PEP’s (politically exposed people) and the amount of expenses (often falsely claimed by the politicians) probably far outweighs the amount we lose through people claiming sick benefit.

The internet is awash with politicians who have been caught, lost their role, employed family members to receive a salary, claimed on second/third homes but it’s only being unearthed because of disclosure rules being brought in a few years ago - they’ve been doing it for years and years.

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
36 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.

I'm just amazed that Tom didn't start this thread, too slow Tom too slow!

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"I'm just amazed that Tom didn't start this thread, too slow Tom too slow!"

He did. 4 hours ago.

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By *ansoffateMan
36 weeks ago

Sagittarius A

The economic policy isn't working, what can they do? Admit that neoliberal free market economics is wrong, making themselves irrelevant and handing power back to labour for a decade or...

Double down and line their pockets until the public get desperate enough to bite back again?

Taking a while this time huh, where's all these angry millennials?

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Just heard Fishi discussing this on the radio. Each time I hear him he sounds more and more like a whiney little boy.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
36 weeks ago

in Lancashire

There have always been those who take the piss and milk the system, be they those at the lower end of society or the very rich who evade tax by using off shore havens..

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

It'd be of more economic benefit to work out who's taking the piss at the top end, but the government don't have the balls to do that, so they make the lives of vulnerable people ever more difficult. (And when the vulnerable people take them up on appeal, they almost always win - ending up being a giant waste of time and money)

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By *ellhungvweMan
36 weeks ago

Cheltenham

Instead, why not try to solve the issue at the root cause rather than work backwards?"

I think this is absolutely spot on. The failings we see are holistic in nature and no one (from any party) seems able to do anything about that.

Whoever can properly step back and look at the issues systemically will get my vote. It is not about private or public ownership - the answer is almost certainly both but the political debates are too polarised for someone to be able to say that they want a bit of both approaches. We are all the poorer for that.

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By *leasureseekers123Couple
36 weeks ago

Heathrow

"I work in a role where I have to look at people who are linked to PEP’s (politically exposed people) and the amount of expenses (often falsely claimed by the politicians) probably far outweighs the amount we lose through people claiming sick benefit.

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

In 2020 mps cost us including expenses £127 millions. That’s the total cost including salaries. The highest amount of claims was made by a member of the snp.

Fraudulent benefit claims cost us in the same year £65.2 million.

So benefit fraud cost us just over 50% of the cost of mp’s

I’m not a Tory at all but that level of fraud is staggering

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Mps earn £90k salary and expenses run into £100k

Rich and poor divide

Stealing from the working people taxes to feed their greed is evil.

Many out of work have mental disorders diagnosed like bipolar.

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By *he DM is always rightMan
36 weeks ago

Derby

It's now become systemic and frankly none of the current political parties are going to change anything. Everybody thinking that labour will be a new broom is delusional but the current bunch of muppets in charge and that's going back to May, and Boris etc etc make me sick. At least we used to know what they stood for. Now, I have no idea

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By *eyond PurityCouple
36 weeks ago

Lincolnshire

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

In 2020 mps cost us including expenses £127 millions. That’s the total cost including salaries. The highest amount of claims was made by a member of the snp.

Fraudulent benefit claims cost us in the same year £65.2 million.

So benefit fraud cost us just over 50% of the cost of mp’s

I’m not a Tory at all but that level of fraud is staggering"

My point was, it’s not just the ‘poor or sick’ who mis-claim. For every person who the government claim have been a benefit fraud there’ll be a politician who’s claimed more than they should.

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By *ickdasterdly51Man
36 weeks ago

Lingfield

This government seems to be alienating so many people with their divide and rule culture wars I'd be surprised if there's anyone left un offended who'd vote for them. Opinion polls suggest that number is already small and diminishing.

No problem with sorting out the genuine workshy but there should already be procedures in place to deal with this. This latest initiative will just give Daily Mail types an excuse to label anyone with long term health issues as work shy.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Tories do not get me started on how they behave in Stealing my money to get rich on.£90k wages and £100k plus expenses. Then telling long term manic depressive people to get a job.Hypercrites the lot of mps and when was Cameron a Lord

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"This government seems to be alienating so many people with their divide and rule culture wars I'd be surprised if there's anyone left un offended who'd vote for them. Opinion polls suggest that number is already small and diminishing.

Genuine work shy...all mps are exactly that tell me what job they do?

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

This is the state of the country. Work shy is an Mp

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By *lue NotebooksCouple
36 weeks ago

Wirral

Once again the Tories are continuing with their heartless and shortsighted policies

They're going about it completely the wrong way. The best way to reduce the amount of people off long term sick is to ensure the health service is properly funded, and crucially, STAFFED

Funding public health and social support initiatives (eg sure start) would be helpful to prevent physical and mental sickness from occurring in the first place

I genuinely believe they don't give a flying fuck, and this is another policy to divide people (like the stop the boats bollocks) absolute bastards the lot of them

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By *ornym66Man
36 weeks ago

Col /ips

I think wot ever government is in its still the same shit its the middle class that keeps us above water at mo because we are an island that's sinking next it will be the post office out

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By *hilloutMan
36 weeks ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

I regularly sign people off work and can categorically say that sick notes are frequently abused to "game" the system. I see no problem with additional oversight / checks.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Mp of SNP has been charged of a crime just breaking.

Taking our taxes ...workshy people who want money for doing nothing at our expense

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"No I think it makes good economic sense to evaluate those claiming long term sick.

Offer more help to people in genuine need and out the lazy con artists.

You can't quite tell me that at least 10 thousand of that number aren't pulling a fast one even if it's only 5 that's still a considerable saving.

How much will it cost to review the cases?

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

Apparently £22.7 BILLION of benefits and financial support is going unclaimed by those who qualify for it. I wonder if the government will make an effort to ensure people get what they are entitled to?

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By *ithintemptationsCouple
36 weeks ago

plymouth

and yet on the tonight program last night there is billions in unclaimed benefits....

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By *isstinseltoesWoman
36 weeks ago

Calderdale innit

Yes I think it is, given how much they've cut funding in healthcare over the 14 years they've been in power.

The system is on its knees, people with genuine mental health issues are struggling to get that help and support.

There are some that abuse it yes, but I think it's a small percentage in comparison with those who genuinely do need those benefits and care.

If we looked at all those tax dodgers, that would help.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

In 2020 mps cost us including expenses £127 millions. That’s the total cost including salaries. The highest amount of claims was made by a member of the snp.

Fraudulent benefit claims cost us in the same year £65.2 million.

So benefit fraud cost us just over 50% of the cost of mp’s

I’m not a Tory at all but that level of fraud is staggering"

Cost us as in this money known to have been actually lost or cost us as in an assumed amount?

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By *linky1Couple
36 weeks ago

Sittingbourne

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

No he is just playing to the hardcore tory voters so they do not get wiped out at the next election he is scared they are all going to go over to Respect. Have to give the Blue Rinse brigade and the Gammons something to hate on.

Single Mums have been done to death.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Yes I think it is, given how much they've cut funding in healthcare over the 14 years they've been in power.

The system is on its knees, people with genuine mental health issues are struggling to get that help and support.

There are some that abuse it yes, but I think it's a small percentage in comparison with those who genuinely do need those benefits and care.

If we looked at all those tax dodgers, that would help. "

It's not as rewarding playing Big Man against the enemy we've constructed to whip up anger that way. Taking on tax dodgers requires work. You get to cosplay big tough man easier if you're kicking people when they're down.

And this is what this is all about. "We're shit at looking after the country - look over there! A bad person! We shall kick them and look glorious, even if it achieves nothing or is counterproductive"

I'd like some adults in charge. Not holding my breath.

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By *GentlemanMan
36 weeks ago

Worcestershire

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

Here, here, absolutely 100% spot on! There are millions of people in the U.K. who fiddle the system, claiming disabilities, etc, whilst millions of genuine folks in need of help don’t get any or enough! I see it day in, day out in my line of work.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"Yes I think it is, given how much they've cut funding in healthcare over the 14 years they've been in power.

The system is on its knees, people with genuine mental health issues are struggling to get that help and support.

There are some that abuse it yes, but I think it's a small percentage in comparison with those who genuinely do need those benefits and care.

If we looked at all those tax dodgers, that would help. "

Before someone jumps in to tell you, they haven’t actually cut the funding to the NHS, they just haven’t increased it enough. NHS funding needs to rise by about 3.6% a year just to keep up with increased costs. Between 2011/12 and 2019/20 it increased by 1.8%.

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By *rHotNottsMan
36 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"No I think it makes good economic sense to evaluate those claiming long term sick.

Offer more help to people in genuine need and out the lazy con artists.

You can't quite tell me that at least 10 thousand of that number aren't pulling a fast one even if it's only 5 that's still a considerable saving.

I work and have worked with large number of severely disabled & Ill people , and I know lots of people less sick who just refuse to work, they don’t need to work there’s no advantage.

It’s just far too easy in the uk for some to rely on tax payers to fund them.

The problem is always gonna be identifying the right ones without hurting true people in desperate need for support and the risks of getting it wrong have big consequences, people literally die, starve etc in some cases

The problem in part because the civil service themselves dint know how to do this and then outsource it to companies who dint care about people . The UC thing made it worse peolle are scared to change because the system of getting help when circumstances change is completely broken

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

Millions of people fiddling the system and claiming disabilities, really? Millions?

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By *leasureseekers123Couple
36 weeks ago

Heathrow

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

In 2020 mps cost us including expenses £127 millions. That’s the total cost including salaries. The highest amount of claims was made by a member of the snp.

Fraudulent benefit claims cost us in the same year £65.2 million.

So benefit fraud cost us just over 50% of the cost of mp’s

I’m not a Tory at all but that level of fraud is staggering

Cost us as in this money known to have been actually lost or cost us as in an assumed amount?"

That’s a known amount. I think it’s 8 million on top of that was recovered

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By *rHotNottsMan
36 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

And millions of fake self employed not paying taxes walking dogs , baking cakes on Facebook & doing hair, nails & plumbing. Grey market tax would pay for a new shiny NHS

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

In summary.....

Yes. "

This. Wonder how many would be unwell if we had adequate local mental health services, community care services such as youth clubs, child & family centres, care for the elderly in the community, respite care, wages more in line with the cost of living, council services, public transport services that work, doctors/ dentists we can see, rental properties that were not full of damp, mould & disrepair that are affordable.. all the things that cause us more stress, ailments, poor self care, etc... nevermind the money mismanaged & wasted due to Brexit & COVID dodgy contracts, business loans, etc

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

The more public services are defunded, the more people end up claiming benefits.

I wonder if there’s a connection?

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

In 2020 mps cost us including expenses £127 millions. That’s the total cost including salaries. The highest amount of claims was made by a member of the snp.

Fraudulent benefit claims cost us in the same year £65.2 million.

So benefit fraud cost us just over 50% of the cost of mp’s

I’m not a Tory at all but that level of fraud is staggering

Cost us as in this money known to have been actually lost or cost us as in an assumed amount?

That’s a known amount. I think it’s 8 million on top of that was recovered "

Ah okay. So actual amount it's cost is £8 million (being as the rest was recovered)

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By *ansoffateMan
36 weeks ago

Sagittarius A

"The more public services are defunded, the more people end up claiming benefits.

I wonder if there’s a connection?"

Sick cows don't produce milk? Na they are just lazy.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"The more public services are defunded, the more people end up claiming benefits.

I wonder if there’s a connection?"

It's an interesting question being as the funding for both comes from the same place.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"I regularly sign people off work and can categorically say that sick notes are frequently abused to "game" the system. I see no problem with additional oversight / checks."

Presumably one can only "game the system" if one acquires a fit note from a professional. Hopefully professionals don't issue notes to those who do not need one?

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By *ivemealadybonerWoman
36 weeks ago

somewhere

I think the system needs to be better in terms of who is playing the system on long term sick benefits, I have known in my lifetime some people abusing the system and this annoys me no end that I go out to work while they can sit on their arses all day or do other stuff to make more money but are too "sick" to actually work and pay taxes like the rest of us, there are people out there that actually can't do work for a real health reason.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

2.8 million

What the fuck is wrong with them ?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

In summary.....

Yes.

14 years of tories

Reap what you sow

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"2.8 million

What the fuck is wrong with them ? "

Apparently over half have depression, bad nerves or anxiety.

Probably best not to comment on what that may actually mean though

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

Sort the NHS out and the majority will get back to work after their one or two year sodding waits for ops and treatment.

How many of the 2.8 million Sunak says are on sick notes are waiting hospital treatment that is preventing them from working

We are told 7.5/8 million on nhs waiting lists, presumably two thirds of those are working, children or retired?

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work. "

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"The more public services are defunded, the more people end up claiming benefits.

I wonder if there’s a connection?

Sick cows don't produce milk? Na they are just lazy."

Looking for causes is communist.

Look, someone we can kick!

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

Also if anyone has tried to navigate the Access to Work scheme, that is supposed to fund certain things to enable disabled people to work, then you will know it's a farcical system that takes years to navigate.

My AtW claim started in 2022. It's still not resolved. I ended up getting a loan from my employer but AtW say they are unlikely to refund them. I am therefore in debt to my employer to the tune of £4500. Had we not gone ahead and bought my wheelchair, I'd be one of the unemployment statistics. As it is I'm edging towards the higher rate tax band and therefore a productive (disabled) drone for HM Govt. I am, however, effectively indentured to my current employer and unable to move jobs until AtW resolve my claim either way.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

True, but many companies are tolerant of WFH too. Far more so than pre-covid. I can see that some people need attend an office for social benefits and mentoring. I WFH a lot, and there are definitely pros and cons.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work. "

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?"

Sure. Plenty of jobs can be done on a WFH basis. Covid proved that.

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By *mateur100Man
36 weeks ago

nr faversham

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

No, there's too many pi55takers sponging off the public purse because they don't fancy the available jobs which is why so many from abroad are here

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By *atEvolutionCouple
36 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

Britain is hardly 'work-shy'

'Employees and the self-employed In November 2023 to January 2024,

there were 28.71 million people working as employees, while a further 4.33 million were self-employed.'

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"Britain is hardly 'work-shy'

'Employees and the self-employed In November 2023 to January 2024,

there were 28.71 million people working as employees, while a further 4.33 million were self-employed.'

Yet 9.25 million people economically inactive.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
36 weeks ago

'Merry Christmas'

"Britain is hardly 'work-shy'

'Employees and the self-employed In November 2023 to January 2024,

there were 28.71 million people working as employees, while a further 4.33 million were self-employed.'

Yet 9.25 million people economically inactive."

. . . and?

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?

Sure. Plenty of jobs can be done on a WFH basis. Covid proved that."

Is that a guess or do you know? In the latest figures by sector the more admin style jobs incl. customer service, communications, financial services etc. only account for about 180k of current vacancies, and that’s assuming they can all be done from home.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?

Sure. Plenty of jobs can be done on a WFH basis. Covid proved that.

I know because in Covid almost 50% worked from home. It's not just admin jobs, for example engineering and architectural design is done on computers using CAD software. No need for office and drawing boards in 2024.

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By *orses and PoniesMan
36 weeks ago

Ealing

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

"
. The number of long term sick has doubled in a ten year period. Any crackdown on the long term sick is long overdue .

Those who are genuinely ill would welcome this move. The benefits system is open to abuse and we need to ensure that only those entitled are are claiming

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

The methods they have employed to determine who is ‘FIT FOR WORK’ are akin to a pogrom using a very well known computer fraud(LIMA) imported from AMERICA and is as-if not more-scandalous as the POST OFFICE debacle that has killed up to 300,000 people.

Despite this I notice RISH! has stated that “Specialised” people will again be deciding people’s fates and these will be the same hacks,quacks & fraudsters working for ATOS,MAXIMUS & CRAPITA making MORE profits from a humanitarian catastrophe and can only be described as a crime against humanity.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

And yet no doubt when we finally get an election some dumb bastards will still make out it's Labour that would fuck the economy and let public spending get out of control.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Not a thumbs up to Labour by the way. Just pointing out the shit show the Tories have put us in.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?

Sure. Plenty of jobs can be done on a WFH basis. Covid proved that.

How many of the people currently in receipt of sickness benefits are architects and engineers do you think?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

. The number of long term sick has doubled in a ten year period. Any crackdown on the long term sick is long overdue .

Those who are genuinely ill would welcome this move. The benefits system is open to abuse and we need to ensure that only those entitled are are claiming "

Do you think there's any connection between the 1, 2 or more year waits to see consultants, then another year or more to receive treatment/surgery etc? In the fact we've not long since gone through a global pandemic of a disease now known to lead to permanent health conditions and long term sickness?

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By *os19Man
36 weeks ago

Edmonton

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Yet lots of employers are insisting people sit in the offices they've signed long leases on,denying perfectly decent requests to do exactly what you are suggesting. The Civil Service being one of those employers!"
. A lot of my colleagues in the Civil Service would like the hybrid working patterns we had during lockdown 2 days WFH 3 days in the office or the other way round.So far the higher management are saying no put with my office full and 12 members of staff to come from a office that is closing down in the summer from a personal perspective it will come probably start of 2025 if not before. We are asking some staff to do telephone interviews or video interviews from a back desk these can be done WFH as they were during lockdown.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?

Sure. Plenty of jobs can be done on a WFH basis. Covid proved that.

How many of the people currently in receipt of sickness benefits are architects and engineers do you think?"

It would vary, but the same applies to e.g. business software for accounting, Copywriting..... Plenty of examples.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"A review of sickness benefits is long overdue. Most workers are not toiling at the coal face are they? Many jobs can be done at home using a laptop. So provide training and incentives to work.

Are these the roles where there are currently vacancies?

Sure. Plenty of jobs can be done on a WFH basis. Covid proved that.

How many of the people currently in receipt of sickness benefits are architects and engineers do you think?

It would vary, but the same applies to e.g. business software for accounting, Copywriting..... Plenty of examples. "

How many vacancies do you think that adds up to? Ballpark figure?

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By *ortyairCouple
36 weeks ago

Wallasey

The way the Government spin the narrative to blame people for being unable to work through illness or disability, calling them workshy and such is despicable.

Even the way they phrase language when saying they want to help more ill/disabled people back into work, implies they are somehow cheating the system.

They want to go after big business first. Get them to pay the proper amount of taxation. That's a significantly higher amount lost to the country each year.

The actual system is geared up to benefit the government and not the people it's designed to help.

From the waiting times to claim benefits, PIP and other disability benefits to the fact that once granted they aren't backdated, meaning literally months of abject poverty waiting for benefits to kick in.

The carers allowance is a scandal, with the person needing care, having their benefit reduced by the same amount granted to the person claiming care allowance. This is despite unpaid carers saving the government thousands od pounds a year.

If anything the government's approach to welfare is enough to increase a person's ill health rather than to help anyone.

Horrible people, don't know how they can look themselves in the mirror.

Mrs x

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By *melie LALWoman
36 weeks ago

Peterborough

"Also if anyone has tried to navigate the Access to Work scheme, that is supposed to fund certain things to enable disabled people to work, then you will know it's a farcical system that takes years to navigate.

It's a strange system. I'm glad work procured stuff for me and dealt with the financial side.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

Rishi didn’t mention the £3.2bn annual cost of us subsidising non doms.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Rishi didn’t mention the £3.2bn annual cost of us subsidising non doms. "

Including, till recently, Mrs Rish

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

"Rishi didn’t mention the £3.2bn annual cost of us subsidising non doms.

Including, till recently, Mrs Rish"

And 68,700 others

Sick notes my arse, he’s got some front

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?"

That’s where ATOS MIRACLES come in!

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?"

Brexit promised millions of well paid jobs..

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?"

Not saying that 2.8 M people will be miraculously available for work. But if they are available for work, new job opportunities will be created as there will be more investments just due to the presence of workforce

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?"

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"Rishi didn’t mention the £3.2bn annual cost of us subsidising non doms.

Including, till recently, Mrs Rish

And 68,700 others

Sick notes my arse, he’s got some front

How exactly do you plan to get tax on non-dom money? Tories in their recent budget announced that they will tax money people make outside the country. I am one of the people affected by it because I earned a lot of money in India before I moved to UK. The money is in bank and I get an interest rate that's close to India's inflation.

Now I need to pay 45% tax on the interest I get in India. So what do I do? I just moved all my money into property and long term investment plans which will pay me after 10-15 years. When I am actually receiving the gains, I might have left the UK. Even if I am living in UK, I will just go to some other country for a year to avoid paying tax.

If a pleb like me can get away from non-dom tax, pretty sure the rich people have numerous other ways to do it. The whole circus around non-dom tax is just left wing populism in action. People who have no fucking clue about how money works lap it up like it's a magic money tree that's hidden from them for so long.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?"

Yes. If there are workers, there will be investors who would be happy to use their labour to produce something. In case you don't know, almost every country's population has been increasing for decades now. That hasn't resulted in corresponding rise in unemployment simply because new job opportunities were created.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

I had no idea that was how the economy worked. How come we have 900,000 vacancies we can’t fill then?

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created. "

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?

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By *ortyairCouple
36 weeks ago

Wallasey

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

Mrs c

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?"

Across the board jobs. AI will bring even more opportunities - if people are willing to grab them and genuinely want to work.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?

Across the board jobs. AI will bring even more opportunities - if people are willing to grab them and genuinely want to work. "

Is that why we have full employment all the time? Jobs just appear whenever there are people available to take them?

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

I had no idea that was how the economy worked. How come we have 900,000 vacancies we can’t fill then?"

Most probably vacancies which used to exist and they couldn't backfill because people left the job or retired. If some companies couldn't hire internally or using immigration, they will just shut them down. The services/goods they produced will be produced from some other countries where there are workers.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

I had no idea that was how the economy worked. How come we have 900,000 vacancies we can’t fill then?

But 4.2% of the population are unemployed, surely they will fill those roles, isn’t that how it happens?

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

Mrs c"

Because there was a recession going on.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

I had no idea that was how the economy worked. How come we have 900,000 vacancies we can’t fill then?

But 4.2% of the population are unemployed, surely they will fill those roles, isn’t that how it happens?"

If they can skill up and are willing to work.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?

Across the board jobs. AI will bring even more opportunities - if people are willing to grab them and genuinely want to work.

Is that why we have full employment all the time? Jobs just appear whenever there are people available to take them?"

Job vacancies depend on economic activity which in turn depends on purchasing power from consumers. It's a virtuous circle when as many people as possible are productive in the economy. It's the free market system described by Adam Smith.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?

Across the board jobs. AI will bring even more opportunities - if people are willing to grab them and genuinely want to work.

Is that why we have full employment all the time? Jobs just appear whenever there are people available to take them?

It gets really hard to fix an economy when the circle is broken. That's what Javier Milei is trying to do in Argentina with his "shock treatment". As expected, the short term impact is negative. But I think they will become a stronger economy in the long term

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

Mrs c

Because there was a recession going on."

Like now, you mean?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?

Across the board jobs. AI will bring even more opportunities - if people are willing to grab them and genuinely want to work.

Is that why we have full employment all the time? Jobs just appear whenever there are people available to take them?

What are the reported 900,000 vacancies. Are they real jobs, what industries, are any of the 2,800,000 qualified for them

Sunak did not say.

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By *usybee73Man
36 weeks ago

in the sticks

Hmm I know quite a few disabled who go to work, and take pride in themselves in being able to do so.

If you can drive, or sit typing on the Internet all day ... just saying!

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By *erry bull1Man
36 weeks ago

doncaster

Sunak wants all the British people working , to pay for the mass immigrant invasion,

Some one has to pay for the hotels and benefits they receive

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

Mrs c

Because there was a recession going on.

Like now, you mean?"

Yes we are technically in a recession but due to a different cause

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Hmm I know quite a few disabled who go to work, and take pride in themselves in being able to do so.

If you can drive, or sit typing on the Internet all day ... just saying!

"Quite a few disabled..."

Disabled what? Do you mean people?

Plenty of disabled people do work, yes. Plenty want to work but for a variety of reasons cannot. Plenty cannot work at all for very good reasons. Being disabled isn't a monolith. We are all different.

What being disabled does tend to come with is extra cost, e.g. associated with adjusting the physical workplace or adapting equipment etc. for individuals. Despite the law requiring workplaces to be accessible, a great many are not and a large number of employers and building owners flout the law. The Equality Act can only be enforced if someone goes to employment tribunal or takes a business to the small claims court, both options expose the disabled individual to shoulder the burden of costs etc.

I have a large number of disabled friends and there are several people who have been applying for work for many years but despite this, they are not selected after interview. It's quite hard to hide your disability if you use a wheelchair or have a limb missing and unfortunately there are many employers who discriminate. The issue is proving it - "we're very sorry, it was a competitive field and there was one candidate just ahead of you blah blah".

If you disagree with what I'm saying, please go ahead and attend your next job interview in a wheelchair and see how it goes.

The other issue is that many disabled people have frequent medical appointments and are more likely to require short periods of sickness absence relating to their disability. When SSP is so low in amount; many employers do not offer enhanced sickness payments or ration them based on brevity/low frequency of absence, you can see the issue, no? In the past month, I've attended 6 medical appointments. That's more than one oer week. They don't last long; I work from hospital cafés and waiting rooms around my appointments and make up work in the evenings, but that isn't possible in all types of job. Many employers just do not want to be arsed with employing people who are going to need time off fairly regularly and who might experience more frequent sickness and so they discriminate against disabled applicants, but just in a way that isn't overt.

It cannot be possible that a mate of mine hasn't passed a single interview since the early 2010s. But that is his experience. He gets to the interview stage (because his CV was good and it doesn't have WHEELCHAIR USER written across the top) but he doesn't get offered the job after arriving in his chair and interviewing. His previous job was in a family business, which folded after a relative died. Since then, he has only managed to get voluntary work. Clearly, he cannot exist on voluntary work so he must claim benefits. What do you suggest for my friend to do?

And this is all before we start to address the issues around accessibility to job applications for people who have sight loss, hearing loss, who require personal assistants to physical aid them etc etc. How many employers have properly inclusive applications processes?

And as I have written above about Access to Work, it is useless. It takes years to resolve claims. Many people cannot even start work without relevant specialist equipment and resources being provided via AtW and so what do you do then? Employers won't keep a job offer open for years.

Until you are a disabled person looking for work, you will have no idea as to the issues. I believe I am only in a job because I already had it before acquiring my disability. I proved myself to be capable and competent in my able bodied previous life and so I have found it easier to continue with adjustments. I have found applying for new jobs and attending interviews to be very problematic and feel stuck in my current job. I want to progress and move upward but it's much, much harder now.

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By *usybee73Man
36 weeks ago

in the sticks

Of cause it depends on the disability, and how it affects what the employer wants. Let's be honest, it's upto the employer at the end of the day ... some are fuckers whilst others don't care about anything as long as you can do the job etc

Whilst you will find those on the sick who have no intention of finding work and yet lead normal lives.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
36 weeks ago

Colchester

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

The Conservatives always "punch down" at the most disadvantaged members of society. They are easy targets and the least likely to be able to defend themselves.

And yet, the irony is that if their conditions and opportunities improved dramatically, the reduction in social ills and crime would afford the moneyed elite greater protection for themselves.

A rising tide lifts all boats, however some still feel the only way to rise is to park their boats on the decks of others so that their view is higher and they are carried aloft.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
36 weeks ago

Horsham

This reminds me of a company that I used to work for. They took on a contract with a health screenibg company, to stop people calling in sick when they just wanted a day off. The sickness rates went through the roof, as everyone just lied to the person on the other end of the phone.

For me it was harder getting signed off for a couple of weeks by the Doctor, after I was recovering from a bad motorbike crash.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"No I think it makes good economic sense to evaluate those claiming long term sick.

Offer more help to people in genuine need and out the lazy con artists.

You can't quite tell me that at least 10 thousand of that number aren't pulling a fast one even if it's only 5 that's still a considerable saving.

Compared to the BILLIONS given away by this government?Oh yeah let’s ignore the Parliamentary gravy train and the money lost in PPE contracts for equipment that didn’t even work in the first place

Let’s get the 0.07 of ‘fraudsters’ who crashed the economy!

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

But with more in employment, the benefits burden falls and tax revenues rise. More spending power boosts the economy and more jobs are created.

Will they all be wfh jobs for all these engineers and architects who are currently unable to work due to long term sickness?

Across the board jobs. AI will bring even more opportunities - if people are willing to grab them and genuinely want to work.

Is that why we have full employment all the time? Jobs just appear whenever there are people available to take them?

What are the reported 900,000 vacancies. Are they real jobs, what industries, are any of the 2,800,000 qualified for them

Sunak did not say. "

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

The Tories are great at coming up with simple sounding ideas that idiots lap up but fall apart when even the lightest scrutiny is applied.

Why is it always the stick and never the carrot? Why is it never a policy to support people getting healthy enough to go back to work and always a threat to punish those who are most vulnerable?

Why do we have a government that revels in bullying the poor and sick but never stands up to the people really costing the country a fortune?

And finally, what does it say about our population that so many people fall for the same rubbish over and over and over again?

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By *leasureseekers123Couple
36 weeks ago

Heathrow

Deflecting the light is what every politician is good at.

In 2020 mps cost us including expenses £127 millions. That’s the total cost including salaries. The highest amount of claims was made by a member of the snp.

Fraudulent benefit claims cost us in the same year £65.2 million.

So benefit fraud cost us just over 50% of the cost of mp’s

I’m not a Tory at all but that level of fraud is staggering

Cost us as in this money known to have been actually lost or cost us as in an assumed amount?

That’s a known amount. I think it’s 8 million on top of that was recovered

Ah okay. So actual amount it's cost is £8 million (being as the rest was recovered)"

No 8 was the amount recovered and the rest wasn’t

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

Mrs c

Because there was a recession going on.

Like now, you mean?

Yes we are technically in a recession but due to a different cause"

Ah, ok. But we are still in a situation where the economy is contracting, not expanding, yes?

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"There are 2.8 million on long term sick but only 0.9 million job vacancies. What are they all going to do when they’re miraculously cured?

So because there are people available to work there will be jobs created for them?

Mrs c

Because there was a recession going on.

Like now, you mean?

Yes we are technically in a recession but due to a different cause

Ah, ok. But we are still in a situation where the economy is contracting, not expanding, yes?"

Last GDP number we had was for February and we grew by 0.1% We are getting out of recession

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

Why is it the taxpayer's responsibility to pay for people who wouldn't get skills for jobs which are available? I completely understand taxpayers taking care of people who couldn't work due to physical disability. But saying that "I would rather remain jobless instead of getting new skills depending on the job market. I want the government to pay me" is just a sense of entitlement.

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By *otMe66Man
36 weeks ago

Terra Firma

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

if someone is doing better than others they should pay up, it’s only right we all have the same no matter the effort or skill

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

That’s not who this thread is about though, this is about people who are on long term sick, maybe chronically or who may be disabled. There may well be thousands of job vacancies in London but that doesn’t help if you live on Teeside. Similarly there may be lots of nursing vacancies but if you are a 55 year old former labourer who didn’t get any O levels. It’s not simply a matter of here’s a vacancy, here’s an unemployed person, problem solved.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

Exactly. The notion that jobs must be brought to you is breath-taking. It's up to individuals to acquire skills then seek-out employment as a stepping-stone to advancement.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed."

Is a tied in though, if the government succeeds in forcing people back into the job market then they are likely to be in the more deprived areas, these areas are not those that tend to have job vacancies.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same."

My point still applies. If someone doesn't find a job in the area they live in, they have to move to an area which gives them job. Why should tax payer pay for them if they cannot move to a place which gives them job? Majority of people move places for their job. It's ridiculous to say that they will take a job only in the place they live.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

So you’re saying these people who have family ties to the area in which they live, have all their friends and support network there, who have been on sickness benefit, should up sticks and move to the other end of the country, for potentially a minimum wage job?

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By *melie LALWoman
36 weeks ago

Peterborough

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

The labourer could have 10 O-levels, they still wouldn't get into nursing. A healthcare assistant, yes. But I get your point.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

Can I say that any one contributing here could become disabled today or tomorrow. I was able bodied until I was 31. I am now 38 and I am a wheelchair user. Complacency and designing a punitive system to force "them" into work, no matter what, will come back to bite YOU on your newly-disabled arse one day.

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

And while we're on the subject of these workshy disabled shirkers needing to be qualified in the areas where there is work - have any of you checked out how accessible secondary schools are colleges are? Universities? Mr KCs job takes him on frequent university visits and he now looks closely at physical accessibility and it's absolutely dire in many HE establishments. The provision of physically accessible student accommodation is woeful and extremely expensive.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

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By *melie LALWoman
36 weeks ago

Peterborough

"Can I say that any one contributing here could become disabled today or tomorrow. I was able bodied until I was 31. I am now 38 and I am a wheelchair user. Complacency and designing a punitive system to force "them" into work, no matter what, will come back to bite YOU on your newly-disabled arse one day.

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is! "

And then you have hidden disabilities. This then leads to able bodied expectations and judgements.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The costs of moving will also come from the magic money tree

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The world isn't a place with pillows around the edges and flowers in all the directions you see. People who stay back surrounded by their families and friends throughout their lives is a rare thing. No one is entitled to it. Majority of the people move out at some point of time. If some people want to give up job opportunities for the sake of being with their families, they have all the right to do it. But don't expect other people to foot their bills.

For a society to survive, people must produce enough goods that the society wants. Free market incentivises it by supply demand based pricing. You give something to the society that's in high demand, you get highly paid for it. If you are way too coddled and entitled that you wouldn't even move places to take up a job, then don't expect the society to still look after you. If everyone in the society does the same thing, we will just face mass starvation and deaths.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is! "

But isn't it the case that we've rightly accommodated the disabled in building design, transport, sport etc? If the disabled can get to the Olympics and play Rugby, Basketball they must have mobility to seek work eh?

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If some people in a category can perform in the Olympics, then everyone in that category must have everything they need to survive.

This is what you're saying and I'd just like to marvel at the ridiculousness of the proposition.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think that because some disabled people go to the Paralympics, that this means every disabled person can work, you're deluded.

And if you think all buildings and the physical space in towns and cities are all accessible, then you are worse than deluded. Please come and borrow my other wheelchair and go about your normal business for a week. Then revisit your comments.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think disabled people are ‘accommodated’ then you haven’t been reading the thread very well.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

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By *idnight RamblerMan
36 weeks ago

Pershore

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think that because some disabled people go to the Paralympics, that this means every disabled person can work, you're deluded.

I didn't say 'every person' nor did I say 'force', but undeniably disabled facilities are far better these days, bringing the opportunity to work on an equal basis. Isn't that what you'd want?

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think that because some disabled people go to the Paralympics, that this means every disabled person can work, you're deluded.

I didn't say 'every person' nor did I say 'force', but undeniably disabled facilities are far better these days, bringing the opportunity to work on an equal basis. Isn't that what you'd want?"

If you think that we’re at the stage where disabled people have equal opportunity to work then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think that because some disabled people go to the Paralympics, that this means every disabled person can work, you're deluded.

I didn't say 'every person' nor did I say 'force', but undeniably disabled facilities are far better these days, bringing the opportunity to work on an equal basis. Isn't that what you'd want?"

We no longer leave disabled people to die of exposure, therefore everything is fine and the problem of sick notes is solved. Yay! Pat ourselves on the back. Job solved. Things have improved. Disabled people should stop requiring money to live, unless they can get a job in the climate I've decided is fine because we're better than actual murder

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think that because some disabled people go to the Paralympics, that this means every disabled person can work, you're deluded.

I didn't say 'every person' nor did I say 'force', but undeniably disabled facilities are far better these days, bringing the opportunity to work on an equal basis. Isn't that what you'd want?"

I want disabled people to have same opportunities as non disabled people. We're not basket/charity cases. I couldn't care less if it's better now than in some arbitrary time in the past. That doesn't help me get on a train to work (I rely on assistance from staff, they don't always turn up). That doesn't help me get inside the building I'm interviewing in, but it has steps and no lift (despite me informing them at application I'm a wheelchair user). Etc.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

Trickle down is a meaningless economic term. I don't know what's there to laugh about free market either. World population went from 2.5 Billion in 1950 to over 8 Billion now. In spite of doomsday predictions about how it would lead to mass deaths, we actually managed to drastically reduced the % of world population that suffers from hunger. It's mostly thanks to technology and capitalism.

I would say it's a much better achievement compared to socialism which caused tens of millions to die. I guess some people would rather prefer to live in a world where they have to queue for a slice of bread per day and die of hunger instead of living in a world where they sit at home in spite of being physically able to work and complain that the benefits they get aren't enough.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

You work in construction? Good luck with your acquired disability.

You wait tables? I hope you can do it from a wheelchair.

You are a police officer? Fire fighter? Ambulance worker? Very straightforward for the newly disabled.

There are multitudes of jobs that are completely unrealistic and inaccessible to lots of disabled people, no matter how well qualified they are or how many reasonable adjustments are made.

But yes, the disabled should just get on their bikes and go where the work is!

If you think that because some disabled people go to the Paralympics, that this means every disabled person can work, you're deluded.

I didn't say 'every person' nor did I say 'force', but undeniably disabled facilities are far better these days, bringing the opportunity to work on an equal basis. Isn't that what you'd want?

It's the same as every disability. We should be grateful, positive, and quiet, because it makes the ableds feel good. And no, we can't ask for help, because that doesn't make the ableds feel good.

As you say, being able-bodied is a temporary position that can change at any time.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

From the UN website:

As many as 828 million people were affected by hunger in 2021 – 46 million people more from a year earlier and 150 million more from 2019. After remaining relatively unchanged since 2015, the proportion of people affected by hunger jumped in 2020 and continued to rise in 2021, to 9.8% of the world population.

It's good that the world has improved, compared to the mid/late 20th century, but it's still far too many people who suffer from hunger and under nourishment, across the world. It's currently going backwards in terms of progress, not forwards.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

From the UN website:

Pretty sure it's not hard to guess what happened in 2020 and 2021? World productivity went down. Transporting goods around the world was hard. This obviously leads to rising prices and hence hunger. If anything, had the governments not become way too forceful on their rules around covid, the markets would have handled it much better.

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By *orses and PoniesMan
36 weeks ago

Ealing

"Rishi claims he wants to crack down on the sick note squad .... 2.8m on long term sick.... is this just another diversionary tactic to blame the most vulnerable for the tory mess we are living in?

"
. A Tory mess ? You need to walk down any high street and see how well off lots of people are . A vast member of cups of coffee are sold.

Last time I checked checked the number of sickness claims and long term benefits claims had doubled in the space of term years. There are in excess of half a million cars on the mobility scheme.

The government should be congratulated for cracking down on Fraud. This is what most hard working people want.

Universal Credit and other benefits have made like very easy for some.

The less well off in society and the genuinely ill welcome this crackdown .

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

It doesn’t really matter if it’s a better ‘achievement’ than socialism, it’s had its day and it doesn’t work anymore. Just as we once had a landed gentry who had every privilege and used their power to ensure the plebs remained in their place, we now have a super rich who do the same thing.

Late stage capitalism needs to be reined in and made to work for society as a whole, not just for the wealthy. An economy that needs to pay benefits to people in full time employment is not working, it’s broken. It needs to be fixed.

We simply cannot continue with never ending growth and prioritising shareholder value over everything else. It’s short termist and it’s increasing deprivation and the divide between the rich and poor.

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you."

I think a lot of the problems we see come down to this unserious dichotomy.

Socialism bad, therefore us good.

Socialism has failed in all strong iterations so far, but that doesn't mean that the system we have is without fault. It also doesn't mean that helping people is bad.

We need more serious arguments than this. We need to work out how to get people into better positions, rather than just blaming them and assuming we're perfect. We're not - and a country does better when we can improve ourselves.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you.

I think a lot of the problems we see come down to this unserious dichotomy.

Socialism bad, therefore us good.

Socialism has failed in all strong iterations so far, but that doesn't mean that the system we have is without fault. It also doesn't mean that helping people is bad.

Exactly this, we should constantly assume there is a better way and always look for it. Pure socialism doesn’t work, pure capitalism doesn’t work, perhaps there’s something in between?

Punishing people for not being what you think they should be will never work, maybe investing in them would.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

On what basis are you saying that capitalism doesn't work anymore? Most problems in the Western societies are the result of ageing population and people not working and depending too much on benefits.. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Countries which haven't gone that way in the east are still doing fine.

We haven't reached late stage capitalism yet. Late stage capitalism is when we haven't enough jobs as most jobs are automated and people who own means of production at that point alone reap the benefits. You shouldn't just replace an economic model for the sake of it. The alternative solutions are much worse than what you have now.

Ah the good old "shareholder value" complaint. Would you ever invest in anything if you aren't going to get profit? Expecting profit isn't a bad thing. As long as there is competition, search for profit will only lead to better efficiency.

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you."

Of course life expectancy falls after a pandemic. Is the pandemic also because of capitalism? Next time and asteroid strikes earth, people will blame capitalism for that too.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

This is the whole point, and one some seem to miss. Are they well paid? Are the vacancies in the areas in which people are unemployed? Would you move areas for a minimum wage job?

But in the post I quoted, you were not talking about long term sickness or old age. You mentioned people not getting vacancies in areas they are unemployed.

The areas with high unemployment and the areas with lots of job vacancies are rarely the same.

The free market? Next you’ll be talking about trickle down

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you.

I think a lot of the problems we see come down to this unserious dichotomy.

Socialism bad, therefore us good.

Socialism has failed in all strong iterations so far, but that doesn't mean that the system we have is without fault. It also doesn't mean that helping people is bad.

Exactly this, we should constantly assume there is a better way and always look for it. Pure socialism doesn’t work, pure capitalism doesn’t work, perhaps there’s something in between?

Punishing people for not being what you think they should be will never work, maybe investing in them would."

What we have in UK and most of Europe, in fact most of the world is a mix of capitalism and socialism albeit to different extent. Which country do you think has "pure capitalism"?

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

The fact that you think socialism is bad solves exactly nothing. And the other suggestions in this thread - that people who don't have money should move around the country (with the money they don't have? moving isn't free); that disabled Olympians exist therefore everyone should work (makes as much sense as "someone my age is a billionaire, therefore I should speak several languages", and maybe less sense, because "age" is more of a commonality than "has any disability").

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Why not address the levels of deprivation before they get to that point? Give incentives for accessible workplaces (or disincentives for those who don't take on disabled workers)? Work out why so many people are off sick rather than just assuming they're scroungers?

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs."

You have a very few options when it comes to economics. You let free markets function, or you have the government take ownership of production, or you get the government collect some money in form of tax and distribute it. So it mostly boils down to what's the level of capitalism or socialism you want. If there is a new economic model that I haven't heard about, please let me know.

We are all aware that the problem exists. I never had any issues with helping out physically disabled. My point was about people who wouldn't move to a different place even if there is job available. Lots of people from Asian countries leave their loved ones to move across countries to work. Do you think it's fair to tax them and pay for people who wouldn't move from Hull city to Manchester for a job?

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

If they're deprived and are from deprived areas, how do you propose they move?

Should they throw away all their possessions, walk, and magically have possessions on the other side? Will their shoes wear out doing so? Will they need new shoes? Where will they get the money to replace these, if they don't have the money to move?

There are potentially infinite options as to how to handle the social safety net. I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement about the government collecting taxes and distributing them, in one form or another. After that, infinite options as to how to get people back into work, work out whether they can, or help them when they can't.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

Your reply was to a person who'd emigrated from Australia to the UK, so Swing knows a thing or two about being a migrant.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

Your reply was to a person who'd emigrated from Australia to the UK, so Swing knows a thing or two about being a migrant. "

It took a veritable fuckton of money.

Signed, someone who grew up in closer to Tower Hamlets than fucking Teeside

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By *agan_PairCouple
36 weeks ago

portchester

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

100% this, and I think it's these people that they are cracking g down on, not the genuinely sick. Yoy only have to work in an office environment to find the "sick note" of the office that always seems to get sick on a Monday or Friday.. or whenever there's a deadline coming up.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

This kind of potential cynical, usually very short duration sickness absence is not what is being discussed here. Sunak referred to GPs signing off sick notes and people who are long term unemployed due to sickness/disability. The Monday/Friday sniffles people are almost never getting a sick note (more than 7 days consecutive absence) and are probably not getting a great deal of pay either, unless employers pay enhanced sick pay (which many do not).

We're talking about people signed off by doctors as unfit to work in the longer term, be it due to disability or a chronic health condition.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

We're talking about people signed off by doctors as unfit to work in the longer term, be it due to disability or a chronic health condition. "

I've been to one of those fit to work meetings, as moral support for a friend of mine.

The fact that he could occasionally cook for himself and had a pet rabbit was weighed against him. The fact that he could barely speak out of profound anxiety, the fact that his doctor said he couldn't do manual labour because of a heart condition that ultimately killed him in his early 40s, and the like, didn't count at all.

But I suppose "my workmate takes the piss" counts more than what I've seen.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

We're talking about people signed off by doctors as unfit to work in the longer term, be it due to disability or a chronic health condition.

I've been to one of those fit to work meetings, as moral support for a friend of mine.

But I suppose "my workmate takes the piss" counts more than what I've seen."

He took his rejection up to tribunal and won, for what it's worth.

I'd like to know how much successful appeals cost the country, and if it actually might cost less to reject less people

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By *agan_PairCouple
36 weeks ago

portchester

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

We're talking about people signed off by doctors as unfit to work in the longer term, be it due to disability or a chronic health condition. "

I've worked in places where the short term sick led to a long term via sick note, the company was able to prove that even though they had a sicknote they were facking the sickness. It still happens at this level. Anything that stops people playing the system and allows the funds to be used for genuine sick people is surely a good thing?

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

We're talking about people signed off by doctors as unfit to work in the longer term, be it due to disability or a chronic health condition.

There have been stories for years about people who were genuinely sick who have starved to death, killed themselves, died of clear terminal cancer etc, before the government goes oops, my bad.

How many genuinely disabled needy people do you think it's acceptable to let die in horrific conditions?

That's what we're weighing up.

We're also weighing up the cost of enforcement versus potentially letting a few people take the piss.

I'd rather people who need our help get our help.

But it's more fun and wank worthy to assume that everyone's a scrounger and we can magically solve the problems by kicking the poor and vulnerable.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"I wish less people played the system so that those that actually need the help, could get the help.

We're talking about people signed off by doctors as unfit to work in the longer term, be it due to disability or a chronic health condition.

If a business has genuine evidence of someone faking illness, they could go down the disciplinary route and in any case, even with genuine absence due to sickness, many company policies will see you managed out fairly quickly. How lucrative is it to be off sick long term? How many companies pay full pay for long periods? SSP is barely enough to feed a cat on. A colleague of mine who has been off work for almost a year (VERY genuine illness, hospitalisation, permanent disability from it) is being managed out currently and he has been on SSP for some time. He's the main earner in his household.

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By *melie LALWoman
36 weeks ago

Peterborough

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you.

Of course life expectancy falls after a pandemic. Is the pandemic also because of capitalism? Next time and asteroid strikes earth, people will blame capitalism for that too."

I was at uni before the pandemic and we were discussing a decrease in life expectancy. Let's not blame everything on the pandemic.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you.

Of course life expectancy falls after a pandemic. Is the pandemic also because of capitalism? Next time and asteroid strikes earth, people will blame capitalism for that too.

I was at uni before the pandemic and we were discussing a decrease in life expectancy. Let's not blame everything on the pandemic."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/23/male-life-expectancy-uk-drops-covid-females

It fell for the first time in 40 years during pandemic. And obesity is a bigger problem in West right now than hunger

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By *melie LALWoman
36 weeks ago

Peterborough

For the first time in decades we have seen life expectancy fall, if that doesn’t show you something is wrong then there’s no helping you.

Of course life expectancy falls after a pandemic. Is the pandemic also because of capitalism? Next time and asteroid strikes earth, people will blame capitalism for that too.

I was at uni before the pandemic and we were discussing a decrease in life expectancy. Let's not blame everything on the pandemic.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/23/male-life-expectancy-uk-drops-covid-females

It fell for the first time in 40 years during pandemic. And obesity is a bigger problem in West right now than hunger"

My point still stands, I just cannot prove it with a link.

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By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

If the Tories had any moral compass they’d go after the corporations that aren’t paying Tax like Amazon and close the tax loopholes but they despise the working class and will do anything they can to make them suffer.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"If the Tories had any moral compass they’d go after the corporations that aren’t paying Tax like Amazon and close the tax loopholes but they despise the working class and will do anything they can to make them suffer. "

Indeed. And it's more emotionally satisfying for an increasingly radicalised base to point at people who don't have the power to fight back, and make them the problem. Rather than, you know, actually solving problems.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
36 weeks ago

nearby

68,700 non doms avoiding £3.2bn annually in tax, including 8 years non dom by Sunaks wife. Notably their £4bn family wealth is all invested offshore for lower tax, not in ‘ the UK is the best place for business’

But all the problems are caused by the sick notes and 30p learn to cook dossers apparently.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

Your reply was to a person who'd emigrated from Australia to the UK, so Swing knows a thing or two about being a migrant. "

And I moved from India to UK. I have known numerous people who moved here for much lower paying jobs. Pretty sure it's not as hard as them for people living here to move to a different city.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

Your reply was to a person who'd emigrated from Australia to the UK, so Swing knows a thing or two about being a migrant.

And I moved from India to UK. I have known numerous people who moved here for much lower paying jobs. Pretty sure it's not as hard as them for people living here to move to a different city."

It probably cost me in excess of twenty grand to move. I'm fortunate. I make no fucking secret of this.

Let's say it costs a grand to move to another city. Moving costs, replacing stuff you can't move, a time where you struggle to get interviews because you live in the wrong area, etc etc?

Where do these people get a thousand fucking pounds?

Have a look at the rates of child poverty, and tell me these people have a thousand pounds lying around. Or whatever it costs to move a long distance.

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By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

This went about as well as expected.

Fin.

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By *ostindreamsMan
36 weeks ago

London

"Mate, the only person making this about capitalism versus socialism is you

Otherwise we're talking about how to get people into work, and why they might not be.

A problem exists. Possibly several problems. How can we solve it?

The fact that people have "socialism is icky" boners solves nothing, but probably makes them feel pretty good about it.

Bit hard to jack off to, but might actually solve some problems ffs.

If they're deprived and are from deprived areas, how do you propose they move?

How exactly are they surviving now if they can't even have money to move to a different place? These kind of statements reek of being spoilt and entitled. There are plenty of people around the world with much less material wealth moving to different places for much lesser income.

Even countries like Sweden which are praised all over the world have strong limits when it comes to unemployment benefits. You can't claim unemployment benefits over 300 days. And even during those 300 days, they keep sending you job interviews. There are rules around when you can deny and whe you can't. If they see you sitting around not taking up jobs, they will cut down your employment benefits.

Social welfare will work only in a society where people take individual responsibility. If more and more people decide that they can take unemployment benefits for random reasons, the pot will go empty and the government wouldn't have enough tax to redistribute.

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By *obilebottomMan
36 weeks ago

All over

Just sad to see the volnerable been attacked again for political gain and from those blinded by political dodgma and ideology not considering the damage it does just because a few might be workingthe system. What will it take again, people becoming so desperate that try to take their lives like some did when they introduced those stupid assessments last time that drove people to despair. Shameful realy and I rather have compassion than pontificate about workhouses arrangements, forced relocations and the like. My opinion of course but I know what kind of person I rather be

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