Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" 9 children in an average classroom of 30 (29%) are living in poverty. 48% of children from Black and minority ethnic groups are in poverty, compared to 25 per cent of white children. 44% of children living in lone-parent families are in poverty. " I'm not very good at maths but looking at the above figures : If 25 % of white children live in poverty, as do 44% of children with lone parents, plus 48% of black and ethnic minority parents, wouldn't this mean the average number of children in poverty per classroom is higher than 29% ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Have just had a look at the Child Action Poverty Group statistics on child poverty: 4.2 million children are growing up in poverty in the UK. 9 children in an average classroom of 30 (29%) are living in poverty. 7 out of 10 children living in poverty have at least one parent in paid work. 48% of children from Black and minority ethnic groups are in poverty, compared to 25 per cent of white children. 44% of children living in lone-parent families are in poverty. Is this shocking, especially for a developed western country? Are we desensitised to this? Do we consciously / subconsciously turn a blind eye? Are we so focused on our own financial survival that we can't be concerned about others? Which of these statistics is most shocking? " . What exactly do you mean by poverty.? If someone had a roof over their head and can buy food they are hsrdly living in poverty . It seems that the definition of poverty has changed in order to suit the charities purpose . On a simplistic basis Universsl Credit ensures that the needs of most people are covered. Of you are unable to budget there may be a problem ? The only answer would be to replace Universl Credit with food vouchers. Are you suggesting that ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Have just had a look at the Child Action Poverty Group statistics on child poverty: 4.2 million children are growing up in poverty in the UK. 9 children in an average classroom of 30 (29%) are living in poverty. 7 out of 10 children living in poverty have at least one parent in paid work. 48% of children from Black and minority ethnic groups are in poverty, compared to 25 per cent of white children. 44% of children living in lone-parent families are in poverty. Is this shocking, especially for a developed western country? Are we desensitised to this? Do we consciously / subconsciously turn a blind eye? Are we so focused on our own financial survival that we can't be concerned about others? Which of these statistics is most shocking? " Of course it is wrong and it is counter-productive for any Government to allow this to happen in its society. These young children are not getting the best start in life and they are the future workers and wealth producers in society - these are the people who will be paying our pensions. The answer for sure is not simply to give more money away, but there should be an integrated system in places that ensures all young people get the best start in life so that they have the opportunity to fulfil their potential for all of our future benefit. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"None of them are shocking. Having children is a privilege not a right. If you can't afford them, don't have them. Too many people are selfish and have an "I want" mentality, expecting others to pick up the bill." The other side to this argument is that if as a country we don’t encourage and help people to start families then we will have to rely more and more on immigration in the future to fulfil employment capacity. Generally speaking people who object to welfare also tend to object to immigration, but you can’t have it both ways. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Have just had a look at the Child Action Poverty Group statistics on child poverty: 4.2 million children are growing up in poverty in the UK. 9 children in an average classroom of 30 (29%) are living in poverty. 7 out of 10 children living in poverty have at least one parent in paid work. 48% of children from Black and minority ethnic groups are in poverty, compared to 25 per cent of white children. 44% of children living in lone-parent families are in poverty. Is this shocking, especially for a developed western country? Are we desensitised to this? Do we consciously / subconsciously turn a blind eye? Are we so focused on our own financial survival that we can't be concerned about others? Which of these statistics is most shocking?" None of them are shocking. CPAG has a habit of using different definitions of poverty to get the biggest number to use in its campaigns. If you look at its web page where it explains what poverty is, it gives 5 different definitions, only one of which is quantifiable. Of course, the easiest way to end child poverty would be to ban poor people from having children. For some reason CPAG doesn't mention that option on its website. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Have just had a look at the Child Action Poverty Group statistics on child poverty: 4.2 million children are growing up in poverty in the UK. 9 children in an average classroom of 30 (29%) are living in poverty. 7 out of 10 children living in poverty have at least one parent in paid work. 48% of children from Black and minority ethnic groups are in poverty, compared to 25 per cent of white children. 44% of children living in lone-parent families are in poverty. Is this shocking, especially for a developed western country? Are we desensitised to this? Do we consciously / subconsciously turn a blind eye? Are we so focused on our own financial survival that we can't be concerned about others? Which of these statistics is most shocking? None of them are shocking. CPAG has a habit of using different definitions of poverty to get the biggest number to use in its campaigns. If you look at its web page where it explains what poverty is, it gives 5 different definitions, only one of which is quantifiable. Of course, the easiest way to end child poverty would be to ban poor people from having children. For some reason CPAG doesn't mention that option on its website." It doesn't just seem to be CPAG, saying so: Child income poverty rates in the United Kingdom were the highest among the world's richest countries, a report by U.N. children's agency UNICEF said, ranking bottom of the table for changes in those rates in the past decade. The UNICEF report, published on Wednesday, looked at relatively well-off countries to assess the rate of child income poverty combined with child poverty reduction rates. Britain ranked 37th out of the 39 nations in the European Union (EU) and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) based on income poverty rate for children and their success in reducing child poverty in a time of prosperity. Only Turkey and Colombia ranked below Britain, based on a statistical average of the two indicators. When measuring percentage changes in child income poverty rates in 2012-14 and 2019-21, the United Kingdom lay bottom of the table of 39 high- and upper middle-income countries, with a 20% rise in child poverty rates. At the other end of the spectrum, Poland, Slovenia and Latvia topped the rankings with a reduction in child poverty rates by more than 30%. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"37th out of 39 of the worlds richest countries.. UN/OECD.. " And 7th/191st. On global inequality https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"500,000 children walking around ankle deep in shit and piss at rafah displacement camp. Who should get priority. " I’m not sure the UK government is in a position to stop Israel murdering Palestinian children, so they should probably start with the British kids. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game." Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled" We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken." There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. " That isn't right most people who use food banks are working, they do not have time to visit a soup kitchen (yes those places still exists mainly the homeless and those on universal credit use them as they have time during the day) so a food bank is the way to go for the working in poverty crowd. The Trussel Trust has the figures of who uses food banks and why, as for charities using over inflated figures to gain more money, charities I have been involved with charities who provide warm places, provide food and support and lobby governments in to action, without them things would be a lot worst for many of us. This year many charities will be providing support to many middle income families who 4 years ago never dreamed they would consider accepting support for bills, food to live without hope, now their mortgages have risen to unaffordable rates. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. " In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K" Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K" I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other?" Does it really matter if someone overstretched a bit on their mortgage they took out 5 years ago when things were looking better? Surely the thing to focus on is that they can’t feed their family now? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. That isn't right most people who use food banks are working, they do not have time to visit a soup kitchen (yes those places still exists mainly the homeless and those on universal credit use them as they have time during the day) so a food bank is the way to go for the working in poverty crowd. The Trussel Trust has the figures of who uses food banks and why, as for charities using over inflated figures to gain more money, charities I have been involved with charities who provide warm places, provide food and support and lobby governments in to action, without them things would be a lot worst for many of us. This year many charities will be providing support to many middle income families who 4 years ago never dreamed they would consider accepting support for bills, food to live without hope, now their mortgages have risen to unaffordable rates." sorry, I touched on this in my reply to another poster and didn't read this until after. What are your thoughts on the situation with people who have had their fixed rates end and are now using food banks because of repayment stress? Was it their decision to push their mortgage and not think about if rates went up, the banks for allowing them to go high. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other? Does it really matter if someone overstretched a bit on their mortgage they took out 5 years ago when things were looking better? Surely the thing to focus on is that they can’t feed their family now?" Yes it does matter and putting in safeguard will prevent families / people falling into this again.... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other? Does it really matter if someone overstretched a bit on their mortgage they took out 5 years ago when things were looking better? Surely the thing to focus on is that they can’t feed their family now?" This is it, in a nutshell. The reasons for people falling into poverty will be varied, but the end result is the same. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you." Well put. It's disheartening how many seem to have something wrong with them. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. That isn't right most people who use food banks are working, they do not have time to visit a soup kitchen (yes those places still exists mainly the homeless and those on universal credit use them as they have time during the day) so a food bank is the way to go for the working in poverty crowd. The Trussel Trust has the figures of who uses food banks and why, as for charities using over inflated figures to gain more money, charities I have been involved with charities who provide warm places, provide food and support and lobby governments in to action, without them things would be a lot worst for many of us. This year many charities will be providing support to many middle income families who 4 years ago never dreamed they would consider accepting support for bills, food to live without hope, now their mortgages have risen to unaffordable rates. sorry, I touched on this in my reply to another poster and didn't read this until after. What are your thoughts on the situation with people who have had their fixed rates end and are now using food banks because of repayment stress? Was it their decision to push their mortgage and not think about if rates went up, the banks for allowing them to go high. " Was it their decision for food and energy prices to soar? Or perhaps to be made unemployed or have hours cut? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you. Well put. It's disheartening how many seem to have something wrong with them." I’d urge everyone to consider how many pay-cheques they could afford to miss out on before they found themselves lining up in the food bank queue. The vast majority of us it would be only 1 or 2. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other? Does it really matter if someone overstretched a bit on their mortgage they took out 5 years ago when things were looking better? Surely the thing to focus on is that they can’t feed their family now? Yes it does matter and putting in safeguard will prevent families / people falling into this again...." That’s the future, what about people who are in this situation now? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?" I have neither the time, nor the crayons, to explain. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?" Some might argue that they're supposed to be running the country with the aim of providing opportunities for people to be able to live out of poverty. Some might say that would be a far left socialist viewpoint. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?" What’s the first responsibility of government? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you." Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty? What’s the first responsibility of government?" To ensure that their donors and the corporations that employ them in their second jobs are able to increase their profits. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?" . We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . " If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . " You're thinking of politicians  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? " People are, we elect the politicians | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances " Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? People are, we elect the politicians " Oh I agree that voting Tory is the root cause of most of the country’s problems. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it not just a fact of life some people will always be in poverty all around the world " Well said . It is the same throughout the world . Just as some people have naturally good looks and others do not. You simply make the most of what you have in life , it is not the governments or the job of the tax payer to provide everything. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other? Does it really matter if someone overstretched a bit on their mortgage they took out 5 years ago when things were looking better? Surely the thing to focus on is that they can’t feed their family now? Yes it does matter and putting in safeguard will prevent families / people falling into this again.... That’s the future, what about people who are in this situation now?" Do you think we should support people who go out and buy a car on finance that they can no longer afford? If a person makes a poor financial decision they put themselves there and should not expect to be bailed out. This is why I have no faith in the labour party, when certain shadow ministers and mp's were asking the government to support peoples mortgages! If we had followed that line we would be dead and buried right now... We can't and should not expect the government to use our money to support poor decision making. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty? What’s the first responsibility of government? To ensure that their donors and the corporations that employ them in their second jobs are able to increase their profits. " Politicians again, any politician will line their own pockets first | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? People are, we elect the politicians Oh I agree that voting Tory is the root cause of most of the country’s problems. " All parties are the same | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience." . It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? People are, we elect the politicians Oh I agree that voting Tory is the root cause of most of the country’s problems. All parties are the same " Then why is rough sleeping so high now after it was almost eradicated under new labour? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? People are, we elect the politicians Oh I agree that voting Tory is the root cause of most of the country’s problems. All parties are the same Then why is rough sleeping so high now after it was almost eradicated under new labour? " Peaks and troughs, life keeps moving | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? " I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? People are, we elect the politicians Oh I agree that voting Tory is the root cause of most of the country’s problems. All parties are the same Then why is rough sleeping so high now after it was almost eradicated under new labour? Peaks and troughs, life keeps moving " Ah, I see. Swerved the question. Fair enough  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K Not all food banks have the same criteria. I would also expect as mortgage rates increased and peoples fixed terms ended, a lot more people would need to use food banks. Where would something like that sit in the workings out? Poor decision made on the mortgage, overstretch etc, or other? Does it really matter if someone overstretched a bit on their mortgage they took out 5 years ago when things were looking better? Surely the thing to focus on is that they can’t feed their family now? Yes it does matter and putting in safeguard will prevent families / people falling into this again.... That’s the future, what about people who are in this situation now? Do you think we should support people who go out and buy a car on finance that they can no longer afford? If a person makes a poor financial decision they put themselves there and should not expect to be bailed out. This is why I have no faith in the labour party, when certain shadow ministers and mp's were asking the government to support peoples mortgages! If we had followed that line we would be dead and buried right now... We can't and should not expect the government to use our money to support poor decision making." In which case maybe we should stop access to all services where poor decisions have been made - hospital services, GP, dental, mental health, fire service, police, etc, etc | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? " . What has savings got to do with Universal Credit. ? If you have no savings you get the full amount of Universal Credit | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? . What has savings got to do with Universal Credit. ? If you have no savings you get the full amount of Universal Credit " You literally asked why people on UC have no savings. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty?. We cannot blame the government, we are architects of our own destiny . If someone is barely getting by (one of Theresa May’s ‘JAMs’), in 2017, and since then bills have skyrocketed and wages have not kept pace, who’s responsible for their slide into poverty? People are, we elect the politicians Oh I agree that voting Tory is the root cause of most of the country’s problems. All parties are the same Then why is rough sleeping so high now after it was almost eradicated under new labour? Peaks and troughs, life keeps moving Ah, I see. Swerved the question. Fair enough "I didn't realise it was a quiz What's the answer then, not your opinion but the definitive answer? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? " You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months." I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities " The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty." I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?" . No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty " Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances " *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. " They provide plenty | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” " . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks " Because wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, this has been mentioned several times on this thread. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks Because wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, this has been mentioned several times on this thread. " I know many UK pensioners living off the basic state pension and living fine, no poverty no food banks bills all paid. The state pension is below the minimum wage. So it seems irrelevant what's been mentioned several times on here | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? " I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks Because wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, this has been mentioned several times on this thread. I know many UK pensioners living off the basic state pension and living fine, no poverty no food banks bills all paid. The state pension is below the minimum wage. So it seems irrelevant what's been mentioned several times on here" More likely to own their home, right? Or be in a council accommodation? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? " Just what people who have been deemed to be in need of accessing a food bank need.. An interrogation into how and why they have had ended up there.. Fucks sake.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks Because wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, this has been mentioned several times on this thread. I know many UK pensioners living off the basic state pension and living fine, no poverty no food banks bills all paid. The state pension is below the minimum wage. So it seems irrelevant what's been mentioned several times on here More likely to own their home, right? Or be in a council accommodation? " You think it's all down to the cost of housing? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?" . Usual walking route into town | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?. No one has suggested that those on Universal Credit would be able to save . In any event if your savings were above £16,000 you would not qualify for Universal Credit . However people in work should attempt to save where possible depending on family circumstances *YOU* literally said “ What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ?” . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks Because wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, this has been mentioned several times on this thread. I know many UK pensioners living off the basic state pension and living fine, no poverty no food banks bills all paid. The state pension is below the minimum wage. So it seems irrelevant what's been mentioned several times on here More likely to own their home, right? Or be in a council accommodation? You think it's all down to the cost of housing? " I didn’t say that. But accommodation is one of the bigger expenses that people face, is it not? Pensioners are more likely to be insulated against that expense. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? Just what people who have been deemed to be in need of accessing a food bank need.. An interrogation into how and why they have had ended up there.. Fucks sake.." . Anyone with a valid reason to visit a food bank would fully support actions taken to ensure that only those entitled to use them do so. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty " I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town " How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The second issue is low wages topped up by benefits. The minimum wage should be a wage people can live on. Why should the state (by definition taxpayers) prop up unviable businesses who can't afford to pay decent wages?" The minimum wage is at a level that people can afford to live on. At the moment it's £10.42, which works out to nearly £21,800 for a standard 40 hour working week. That's £5,000 over the poverty limit. In April it will go up to £11.44, which is £23,900. Those people in poverty are not in that state because their employer isn't paying them enough to live on, it's because they don't work enough hours to live on. There may be very good reasons why they can't work full time, but that isn't the fault of their employer. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't." Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? Just what people who have been deemed to be in need of accessing a food bank need.. An interrogation into how and why they have had ended up there.. Fucks sake... Anyone with a valid reason to visit a food bank would fully support actions taken to ensure that only those entitled to use them do so. " They are assessed and if you knew anything you would know that fact.. They don't have to tell some pontificating know all who in any case might follow them home to see where they live and who claims to have a mysterious ability to know what their pension provisions are.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expen . You have not answered the question as to why these people are using food banks Because wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, this has been mentioned several times on this thread. I know many UK pensioners living off the basic state pension and living fine, no poverty no food banks bills all paid. The state pension is below the minimum wage. So it seems irrelevant what's been mentioned several times on here More likely to own their home, right? Or be in a council accommodation? You think it's all down to the cost of housing? I didn’t say that. But accommodation is one of the bigger expenses that people face, is it not? Pensioners are more likely to be insulated against that expense." Why are many council house Tennant's in poverty? Pensioners still have to maintain the homes and pay fuel bills | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. " . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? " There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? Just what people who have been deemed to be in need of accessing a food bank need.. An interrogation into how and why they have had ended up there.. Fucks sake... Anyone with a valid reason to visit a food bank would fully support actions taken to ensure that only those entitled to use them do so. They are assessed and if you knew anything you would know that fact.. They don't have to tell some pontificating know all who in any case might follow them home to see where they live and who claims to have a mysterious ability to know what their pension provisions are.." . Maybe you need to brush up on your knowledge . Some simply rely on trust. Maybe you need to try mixing with the less well off in society and see what help is actually available and what help and benefits are available to them. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? Just what people who have been deemed to be in need of accessing a food bank need.. An interrogation into how and why they have had ended up there.. Fucks sake... Anyone with a valid reason to visit a food bank would fully support actions taken to ensure that only those entitled to use them do so. They are assessed and if you knew anything you would know that fact.. They don't have to tell some pontificating know all who in any case might follow them home to see where they live and who claims to have a mysterious ability to know what their pension provisions are... Maybe you need to brush up on your knowledge . Some simply rely on trust. Maybe you need to try mixing with the less well off in society and see what help is actually available and what help and benefits are available to them. " What has any of that got to do with what you've claimed in this thread, when you mention trust are you hinting that you know their situations etc? And your using that trust to make a point? Because you are.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.." It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And for the record Pat we've both done voluntary work previously, just didn't think it gave us the right (which we aren't inclined to do so) to make assumptions about those who used the service.. Let alone post online about said people.." No names have been mentioned, no harm done | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality " That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And for the record Pat we've both done voluntary work previously, just didn't think it gave us the right (which we aren't inclined to do so) to make assumptions about those who used the service.. Let alone post online about said people.. No names have been mentioned, no harm done " Never said names have been.. It's odd behaviour .. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And for the record Pat we've both done voluntary work previously, just didn't think it gave us the right (which we aren't inclined to do so) to make assumptions about those who used the service.. Let alone post online about said people.. No names have been mentioned, no harm done Never said names have been.. It's odd behaviour .." Not sure I agree with that statement | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour.." . Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And for the record Pat we've both done voluntary work previously, just didn't think it gave us the right (which we aren't inclined to do so) to make assumptions about those who used the service.. Let alone post online about said people.. No names have been mentioned, no harm done Never said names have been.. It's odd behaviour .. Not sure I agree with that statement" That's ok .. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. " Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it " Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"None of them are shocking. Having children is a privilege not a right. If you can't afford them, don't have them. Too many people are selfish and have an "I want" mentality, expecting others to pick up the bill." What if can afford children and one of the partners dies, or becomes unable to work through illness? The "if you can't afford them don't have them" comment totally ignores the reality of where many people find themselves. It's a narrow minded, insensitive, short sighted trope. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives." No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?" . You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world " All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pension provisions please? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets " Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"None of them are shocking. Having children is a privilege not a right. If you can't afford them, don't have them. Too many people are selfish and have an "I want" mentality, expecting others to pick up the bill." This is the most Daily Mail thing I've ever read. I think in reality, people want a country that provides opportunities for everyone to make something from their lives. Not just the ultra rich. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?" Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty?" I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. " Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? " True, you might not make it through the day without making up backstories for everyone queueing at the local food bank. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?" . Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets " You really shouldn’t judge people by your own motivations. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .." Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?" . It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk" Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants " You must be fun at parties. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants " Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat..  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this?" It's common knowledge charities take a good chunk of the funds raised | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants You must be fun at parties." . Looks like a bit of desperation now . Maybe the truth hurts when you hear the voice of reality. Nothing wrong with proven verifiable facts . I guess it fails to meet your narrative. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this? It's common knowledge charities take a good chunk of the funds raised " And there's so many of them too.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat.. "..You are the person who asked the initial question . You wanted to know how I would know the financial circumstances of someone using a food bank and I answered it with proven verifiable facts in relation to their asset status. What more could I do to answer your question. ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this? It's common knowledge charities take a good chunk of the funds raised And there's so many of them too.." It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat.. ..You are the person who asked the initial question . You wanted to know how I would know the financial circumstances of someone using a food bank and I answered it with proven verifiable facts in relation to their asset status. What more could I do to answer your question. ? "I was curious about you stating that you know the pensions status that the two who live in the affluent area have? And you've said you've observed others at the food bank as you walk ? Are you now saying you've downloaded someones title deeds who use that food bank? If so why? Their postcode will pretty much tell anyone if they live in an affluent area.. Are you involved in assessments for those seeking help from food banks or work at one? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this? It's common knowledge charities take a good chunk of the funds raised And there's so many of them too.. It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work " It's a whole new industry with career progression etc, I just wonder why in one area of need there are so many with the same albeit less paid corporate structures.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat.. ..You are the person who asked the initial question . You wanted to know how I would know the financial circumstances of someone using a food bank and I answered it with proven verifiable facts in relation to their asset status. What more could I do to answer your question. ?
I was curious about you stating that you know the pensions status that the two who live in the affluent area have?
And you've said you've observed others at the food bank as you walk ?
Are you now saying you've downloaded someones title deeds who use that food bank?
If so why?
Their postcode will pretty much tell anyone if they live in an affluent area..
Are you involved in assessments for those seeking help from food banks or work at one?". I think you are bring a bit pedantic and labouring a point . The title deeds of a number of people were downloaded a long time before they existence of the food bank concerned . The reality is that anyone in the UK can download title deeds. They are a matter of public record. You simply need an account. Every download completed will be recorded | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work " Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this? It's common knowledge charities take a good chunk of the funds raised " CEOs at top 100 charities receive a median salary of £175,000, up from £170,000 in 2021 and £155,000 in 2019, according to the Charity's Chief Executive Survey 2023. On average 6/7 more than their workers. It’s a business. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat.. ..You are the person who asked the initial question . You wanted to know how I would know the financial circumstances of someone using a food bank and I answered it with proven verifiable facts in relation to their asset status. What more could I do to answer your question. ?
I was curious about you stating that you know the pensions status that the two who live in the affluent area have?
And you've said you've observed others at the food bank as you walk ?
Are you now saying you've downloaded someones title deeds who use that food bank?
If so why?
Their postcode will pretty much tell anyone if they live in an affluent area..
Are you involved in assessments for those seeking help from food banks or work at one?. I think you are bring a bit pedantic and labouring a point . The title deeds of a number of people were downloaded a long time before they existence of the food bank concerned .
The reality is that anyone in the UK can download title deeds. They are a matter of public record. You simply need an account. Every download completed will be recorded "Your ducking the question again pat.. How do you know the pension status of the two recipients that you stated earlier, the ones in the 'affluent area '..? Flum flam and waffle about title deeds are simply that.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? " Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? " Yes! But I also believe politicians should work for a hell of a lot less as well | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat.. ..You are the person who asked the initial question . You wanted to know how I would know the financial circumstances of someone using a food bank and I answered it with proven verifiable facts in relation to their asset status. What more could I do to answer your question. ?
I was curious about you stating that you know the pensions status that the two who live in the affluent area have?
And you've said you've observed others at the food bank as you walk ?
Are you now saying you've downloaded someones title deeds who use that food bank?
If so why?
Their postcode will pretty much tell anyone if they live in an affluent area..
Are you involved in assessments for those seeking help from food banks or work at one?. I think you are bring a bit pedantic and labouring a point . The title deeds of a number of people were downloaded a long time before they existence of the food bank concerned .
The reality is that anyone in the UK can download title deeds. They are a matter of public record. You simply need an account. Every download completed will be recorded
Your ducking the question again pat..
How do you know the pension status of the two recipients that you stated earlier, the ones in the 'affluent area '..?
Flum flam and waffle about title deeds are simply that..
". You are the person asking all the questions , not me yet you provide no information in return . If someone owns a house outright in a reasonably affluent area and they are retired it can be assumed that as a minimum they will receive a state pension. In any event they also own a cat so hsrdly poverty stricken. I have no objection to them or anyone also using a food bank . I am simply making the point that those using food banks are not poverty stricken and the organisation giving out the food is more of a social hub. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. In order to use a food bank you have to meet criteria. The numbers of folk using them since 2010 has risen *astronomically* It’s a real life indicator of the decline in living standards in the U.K I can’t help but think anyone who says a person using a food bank isn’t living in ‘poverty’ is trying too hard to defend the government. If you’re arguing semantics and definitions while people queue up to get a carrier bag of food then there’s something wrong with you.Maybe some people have a much more realistic view of life. To use some food banks you do not have to be living in poverty, it is based on trust. I have seen at least two people in an affluent area using them , both house owners with pensions In any event the government has in place a system called Universal Credit to help those who are struggling. What have they spent this money on ?. It is nothing to do with defending the government who in any event have no control over how people spend their money Judging by some of the comments on here some people have not mixed with the less well off in society and these posters expect too much of the state . The less well off in society take pride in paying their way and are hardly going to be using food banks. Maybe look at thw queue sometime and observe who is using them. It is hardly the poor , more likely those who have failed to manage their finances Hanging around food banks to look at who is in the queue is a weird hobby, have you considered watercolour? We have volunteered at food banks and seen, spoken to, and provided a shoulder to cry on to the people who use them. They often feel huge amounts of shame for not being able to afford to pay for their food, and largely come from the poorer areas. At least in our experience.. It might be a weird hobby to you but walking past and observing things in life is what a lot of people do. May be the truth hurts when people realise that it is not always the poor who use food banks . Whilst your volunteer help is commendable what you have not explained is why these people are using food banks in the first instant. What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? Why have other family members not helped them out ? The situation is not as simple as it looks . The third top up to the less well off in society is being paid this month by the government . Why did those using food banks spend theirs on ? I think they probably use food banks because they have found themselves in a position where they cannot afford food. Not everyone has access to support networks, and there are a lot of people who have not been able to save for many years. Is the food bank on a usual walking route for you, if so you make a special detour?. Usual walking route into town How long do you stand there looking down upon them Pat? Coming to inane bs conclusions that you know their back story.. . As far as I am aware it is normal practice to observe what is happening in your surroundings. It is probably essential to survive. Two chances to observe , one going into town the other walking out. . Have you actually observed what is happening at any near yours .? There's a difference between observing and what you've claimed in this thread which patently isn't just that.. It's either you've made up some of it as 'anecdotes' or you behaviours are somewhat strange, that you claim to know someone's pension details because of where they both went after the food bank is not natural.. It may not be natural to you but to most normal people it would be . Most normal people ( or those who get out and about ) would recognise some of those who live in the area and would have a reasonable idea of their financial status unless they are walking around with their eyes closed . It might disappoint you buy sometimes in life you have to face reality That doesn't give you or anyone the right to judge, then to use their situation to attempt to make a point in this thread.. That you think it does is very odd behaviour... Out in the real world I do not think anyone using a food bank would even care about what was posted on here . Everyone is entitled to make judgements in life you appear to be implying that only some people are allowed to pass judgment. Nope try again, I've not said that.. Care to elaborate how you know the pension provisions of people you 'observed' as they walked home from the food bank ?. You appear completely oblivious to the fact that I have never objected to people using food banks. I have simply pointed out that they are not necessarily for the poor or less well off. They appear to be a point of social contact for some people. You appear to query my observations but have none of your own My day to day contact with people , some of whom are carers gives me at the information that I need. Their guidance and advice ( which is out in the real world ) will carry a lot more weight than any opinion on a forum such as this . The audience on here is so small it is hardly even worth questioning peoples opinions . It makes no difference to what happens in the real world All very interesting albeit irrelevant, deflection eh pat.. Care to elaborate on your claim about the two food bank users who live in the affluent area and just how you know their pens. ion provisions please?Maybe you need to download the title deeds of some people's houses and start reading them. Investigate pensions and the minimum entitlement. Check the cars that they drive. Listen pat it's ok, pretty much every one who read it knew it was waffle.. But.. Is this response legal? What sort of person wants to carry out such activities..?. Waffle to you yes but basic common sense to any rational person . Gives you an idea as to what is happening in the real world , not the fantasy world of the internet . I assume waffle is one of your favourite words .. Bollocks, codswallop and get the fuck out of here come before waffle.. In fact waffle is in its criteria below flim flam.. It's basic common sense to access someone's property deeds? In the real world people do this? Really?. It costs £3 to download a set of title deeds . I wanted to clarify who was responsible for maintenance of a lane and where a boundary line was . I downloaded about six sets as the wording was different in each. They are always a useful sort of reference and I have done it in other areas as well. The cost is less than a pint of beer and it clarifies matters. In other areas I have used it to clarify a right of way and on another occasion a builder was prevented from building a fence. They are a very useful source of information if you want to check boundary lines or covenants Interesting but irrelevant and a pretty poor deflection but from a public information perspective, cheers pat.. ..You are the person who asked the initial question . You wanted to know how I would know the financial circumstances of someone using a food bank and I answered it with proven verifiable facts in relation to their asset status. What more could I do to answer your question. ?
I was curious about you stating that you know the pensions status that the two who live in the affluent area have?
And you've said you've observed others at the food bank as you walk ?
Are you now saying you've downloaded someones title deeds who use that food bank?
If so why?
Their postcode will pretty much tell anyone if they live in an affluent area..
Are you involved in assessments for those seeking help from food banks or work at one?. I think you are bring a bit pedantic and labouring a point . The title deeds of a number of people were downloaded a long time before they existence of the food bank concerned .
The reality is that anyone in the UK can download title deeds. They are a matter of public record. You simply need an account. Every download completed will be recorded
Your ducking the question again pat..
How do you know the pension status of the two recipients that you stated earlier, the ones in the 'affluent area '..?
Flum flam and waffle about title deeds are simply that..
. You are the person asking all the questions , not me yet you provide no information in return .
If someone owns a house outright in a reasonably affluent area and they are retired it can be assumed that as a minimum they will receive a state pension. In any event they also own a cat so hsrdly poverty stricken.
I have no objection to them or anyone also using a food bank . I am simply making the point that those using food banks are not poverty stricken and the organisation giving out the food is more of a social hub. "You introduced the downloading property deeds blether as a deflection about your claim to know the pension status of the two in the affluent area.. Absolutely irrelevant as you searched to clarify what you claimed but now they are retired.. Well done pat, you got there.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. " How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"On the foodbanks, clear to see the increases since 2010. 61,000 food parcels distributed in 2010/11, 0.9?m in 2013/14 and 1.9?m in 2019/20, 3m in 2023 Causes are Tory policy * Benefit sanctions, i.e. a temporary suspension of benefit payments due to non-compliance with requirements; * Freezing of most benefit levels between April 2016 and March 2020 at 2015/16 rates; * Reductions to, and limits on, Local Housing Allowance (LHA) for private tenants; * ‘Bedroom Tax’ for under-occupation of social housing; * Benefit Cap (limit on total amount per family); 5-week wait for the first Universal Credit (UC) payment, along with other features including on-line application process and the recovery of debts and advances from benefit payments; * Replacement of Disability Living Allowance with Personal Independence Payment (PIP), with more frequent reassessments and a different eligibility structure. https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-022-13738-0" What's wrong with some of these? Namely: sanctions, benefits cap, bedroom tax. I believe there is an advance you can apply for on UC. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn?" Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Yes! But I also believe politicians should work for a hell of a lot less as well " I'm raid there wouldn't be any charities if that was the case. Macmillan Cancer Support employs over 1600 people, who do you think would look after all the cancer sufferers and their families if they weren't there? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"On the foodbanks, clear to see the increases since 2010. 61,000 food parcels distributed in 2010/11, 0.9?m in 2013/14 and 1.9?m in 2019/20, 3m in 2023 Causes are Tory policy * Benefit sanctions, i.e. a temporary suspension of benefit payments due to non-compliance with requirements; * Freezing of most benefit levels between April 2016 and March 2020 at 2015/16 rates; * Reductions to, and limits on, Local Housing Allowance (LHA) for private tenants; * ‘Bedroom Tax’ for under-occupation of social housing; * Benefit Cap (limit on total amount per family); 5-week wait for the first Universal Credit (UC) payment, along with other features including on-line application process and the recovery of debts and advances from benefit payments; * Replacement of Disability Living Allowance with Personal Independence Payment (PIP), with more frequent reassessments and a different eligibility structure. https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-022-13738-0" . Maybe you need to actually speak to people on benefits and see how they live . There are in excess of half million cars on a mobility scheme, universal credit tops up those in need and housing benefit pays rents . Hardly indications of a poverty strapped nation F | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. " It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people?" They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Yes! But I also believe politicians should work for a hell of a lot less as well I'm raid there wouldn't be any charities if that was the case. Macmillan Cancer Support employs over 1600 people, who do you think would look after all the cancer sufferers and their families if they weren't there?" Thousands more are volunteers, how many of the 1600 are just "admin" taking money for doing squat? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is plenty of opportunities in UK hence the high immigration numbers, they're all coming in to take advantage of those opportunities The number of children living in poverty is evidence that there isn't the opportunity for people to lift themselves out of poverty. I refer you to my earlier post, there will always be people in poverty Indeed. There seems to be a lot at the moment. And the argument is that the government should at some point, maybe do something to provide better opportunities for people. Alas, they couldn't give a fuck. They provide plenty I feel like we're going around in circles. The high rates of child poverty suggests that they don't. Increased population, charities moving goal posts, think about it Increased population should balance out with more tax revenue. Charities shouldn't be responsible for providing an infrastructure in the country for people to make a success of their lives. No but charities in UK are a business and have agendas. They move the poverty "measuring stick" to get people to donate more money to line their own pockets Ah I see. So you're saying these children aren't actually living in poverty? I am saying one of the reasons the numbers are constantly changing is, the moving of the goal posts so businesses can keep taking money off hard working folk Fair enough, is there any evidence to show this? It's common knowledge charities take a good chunk of the funds raised " But any evidence of the 'goal post moving' that's giving the false impression that these kids are living in poverty? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. " Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Yes! But I also believe politicians should work for a hell of a lot less as well I'm raid there wouldn't be any charities if that was the case. Macmillan Cancer Support employs over 1600 people, who do you think would look after all the cancer sufferers and their families if they weren't there? Thousands more are volunteers, how many of the 1600 are just "admin" taking money for doing squat?" Do you not think charities need admin staff? Or should the Mcmillan nurses do the admin and fundraising in between patients? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable?" Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. " So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff?" In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. " ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people"" I don't need help with the definition. It's really simple. Charity is not something that anyone should be profiting from (including paid labour), be a good samaritan and give, not take. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people" I don't need help with the definition. It's really simple. Charity is not something that anyone should be profiting from (including paid labour), be a good samaritan and give, not take. " Ok but in the real world people need to be paid for their skills and labour. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people" I don't need help with the definition. It's really simple. Charity is not something that anyone should be profiting from (including paid labour), be a good samaritan and give, not take. " Charities also need to be effective and without professional direction charities such as MIND, Cancer Research U.K. and many, many others would not deliver the amazing results that they do. If charities are seen to be ineffective - no one will donate lol | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty? Some might argue that they're supposed to be running the country with the aim of providing opportunities for people to be able to live out of poverty. Some might say that would be a far left socialist viewpoint. " If 60% of the median pay is the definition of poverty, then we will never eradicate it even with the most socialist government. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save?" someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life." You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people" I don't need help with the definition. It's really simple. Charity is not something that anyone should be profiting from (including paid labour), be a good samaritan and give, not take. Ok but in the real world people need to be paid for their skills and labour." Professional services paid for by people who don't require the service? Tough sell, in a capitalist world. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. " My reading is fine. I'm not making a point about if a UC has spare income to save. I criticised your poor example of how you, as a higher rate tax payer is unable to save. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. My reading is fine. I'm not making a point about if a UC has spare income to save. I criticised your poor example of how you, as a higher rate tax payer is unable to save." Your reading clearly isn’t fine, as I said I used to be able to save ok, now it’s harder - due to cost of living expenses. And since I’ve noticed this, and I’m reasonably well insulated, I’m not sure how others are expected to manage. Glad to clear that up for you | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. My reading is fine. I'm not making a point about if a UC has spare income to save. I criticised your poor example of how you, as a higher rate tax payer is unable to save. Your reading clearly isn’t fine, as I said I used to be able to save ok, now it’s harder - due to cost of living expenses. And since I’ve noticed this, and I’m reasonably well insulated, I’m not sure how others are expected to manage. Glad to clear that up for you "You have cleared nothing up.. if you are a higher rate tax payer and you can only "squirrel" a little bit away each month and some months not at all.. that is because of your life choices. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. My reading is fine. I'm not making a point about if a UC has spare income to save. I criticised your poor example of how you, as a higher rate tax payer is unable to save. Your reading clearly isn’t fine, as I said I used to be able to save ok, now it’s harder - due to cost of living expenses. And since I’ve noticed this, and I’m reasonably well insulated, I’m not sure how others are expected to manage. Glad to clear that up for you
You have cleared nothing up.. if you are a higher rate tax payer and you can only "squirrel" a little bit away each month and some months not at all.. that is because of your life choices. "Of course you think I’ve cleared nothing up. You’ve demonstrated that you didn’t understand the point made in the first place. Have a good night, pal | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. My reading is fine. I'm not making a point about if a UC has spare income to save. I criticised your poor example of how you, as a higher rate tax payer is unable to save. Your reading clearly isn’t fine, as I said I used to be able to save ok, now it’s harder - due to cost of living expenses. And since I’ve noticed this, and I’m reasonably well insulated, I’m not sure how others are expected to manage. Glad to clear that up for you
You have cleared nothing up.. if you are a higher rate tax payer and you can only "squirrel" a little bit away each month and some months not at all.. that is because of your life choices.
Of course you think I’ve cleared nothing up. You’ve demonstrated that you didn’t understand the point made in the first place.
Have a good night, pal "Such a tone deaf example to have used haha. Have a good night comrade | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. " . I do not think anyone has suggested that those on Universal Credit are able to save . Maybe you should read the posts more carefully. What people have suggested is that responsible people should be saving where possible when they are in full time employment. In any event you would be ineligible for Universl Credit if you savings are above £16000. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I What has happened to their Universal Credit or housing benefit. ? Why have they no savings. ? I’m a higher rate tax payer. I can no longer put as much into savings as I used to. (I’m very fortunate in that I can usually still squirrel some away, a few months excepting such as Christmas or the car MOT). How does someone on UC save money as everything goes up in price? You must have very high expenses if you can only save a bit most months. I do, but that’s nobody’s business but mine - the point is that if a higher rate tax payer is unable to save as much as previously, how can someone on UC be expected to save? someone on UC be expected to save?" If it's no ones buisness but yours don't use it as an example as it's a poor one. If your a higher rate tax payer and can't save much or anything that is because of choices you have made in your life. You’re not very good at reading conversations, are you? The UC person being expected to save was raised by another poster, not me. My reading is fine. I'm not making a point about if a UC has spare income to save. I criticised your poor example of how you, as a higher rate tax payer is unable to save. Your reading clearly isn’t fine, as I said I used to be able to save ok, now it’s harder - due to cost of living expenses. And since I’ve noticed this, and I’m reasonably well insulated, I’m not sure how others are expected to manage. Glad to clear that up for you ". When you say it is harder to save , by how much has your pay increased compared to the increase in the cost of living. ? Being a higher rate tax payer means that you are already in a privileged position in life . Most people manage and where necessary adapt their spending to their needs. The government have already provided extensive help to the less well off in society. This month all those eligible will receive the third cost of living payment | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people" I don't need help with the definition. It's really simple. Charity is not something that anyone should be profiting from (including paid labour), be a good samaritan and give, not take. Ok but in the real world people need to be paid for their skills and labour. Professional services paid for by people who don't require the service? Tough sell, in a capitalist world. " And yet it’s happening, people donate money to charities and they provide professional services. I think it’s quite telling the assumption that people won’t voluntarily contribute to something they aren’t directly benefiting from. Says a lot about the person who makes that assumption. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the takeaway from this thread is that many agree that there is too much child poverty and it is the government who is to blame because they created the circumstances for the cost of living to be so high. Some people however disagree and feel that the definition of poverty is wrong, and in any event, people who are poor and can’t feed themselves properly are only in this position because of their own choices and decisions and so they should not be helped. " What’s most striking is that the people who don’t think those in a position where they cannot afford to feed their children should not be helped, don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting children grow up malnourished. Tip for you guys, it’s not a good look. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the takeaway from this thread is that many agree that there is too much child poverty and it is the government who is to blame because they created the circumstances for the cost of living to be so high. Some people however disagree and feel that the definition of poverty is wrong, and in any event, people who are poor and can’t feed themselves properly are only in this position because of their own choices and decisions and so they should not be helped. What’s most striking is that the people who don’t think those in a position where they cannot afford to feed their children should not be helped, don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting children grow up malnourished. Tip for you guys, it’s not a good look." From a much bigger perspective it is also creating a problem a couple of decades down the road when malnourished under-achieving kids become poor, under-achieving adults who contribute little to nothing towards the public purse. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the government fault people are in poverty? Some might argue that they're supposed to be running the country with the aim of providing opportunities for people to be able to live out of poverty. Some might say that would be a far left socialist viewpoint. If 60% of the median pay is the definition of poverty, then we will never eradicate it even with the most socialist government." Yes, I'm technically in poverty, a working single parent in London. I'm on UC to supplement my income (public sector role) and I wouldn't claim to be in poverty. I budget well and UC and other knock on benefits (reduced council tax, childcare ect) prevent myself getting into difficulties. That is the point of UC after all. Of course there are people in much more challenging situations which I'd argue may or may not be own doing. However, statistics on poverty are not something I'd take that much stock in. As someone who is one of that number. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is why there is so many. Never was the case when I was in the round table collecting for and doing charity work Do you think everyone who works for a charity should do it for free? Certainly not, but the CEO’s appear to be having it away with the charitable donations. How much do you think someone in charge of a multi million pound organisation should earn? Isn't the point they're making, is that the work is supposed to be 'charitable', if someone is being paid, then its business, not charity. It's charitable in the sense that people don't have to pay for the services charities offer, not that the people who work for charities do it for free. Macmillan has over 1600 paid staff, Cancer Research UK over 4500. Guide Dogs over 1500. How do you think that would do the work they do if they weren't paying people? They wouldn't but that isn't the point. The charity earns money through donations (and selling services) and pays staff to take care of people (or animals). They rely on others giving, when they don't give (labour) themselves. Why does this mean they aren’t charitable? Because they aren't doing it for free, they're being paid, just not by those who receive SOME services. So a charity is only a charity if they have no paid staff? In plenty of people's minds, yes. Otherwise they are businesses. I know the inner working of one smallish charity, the only difference between it and a business is there are no shareholders. ‘Plenty of people’, really? I’ve never heard that said before in my life. The dictionary doesn’t seem to think that either. charity noun 1. an organisation set up to provide help and raise money for those in need. "the charity provides practical help for homeless people" I don't need help with the definition. It's really simple. Charity is not something that anyone should be profiting from (including paid labour), be a good samaritan and give, not take. Ok but in the real world people need to be paid for their skills and labour." I'm not sure you're really understanding. No one is saying people shouldn't be paid, I'm sating if they're 'working' for a 'charity' then they should be doing it out if kindness, not for profit. You're focusing on charities such as MIND and Cancer Research because you know it helps you win emotionally. There are plenty of other charities that do not fall into your dictionary definition. Private Schools is a good example of this. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the takeaway from this thread is that many agree that there is too much child poverty and it is the government who is to blame because they created the circumstances for the cost of living to be so high. Some people however disagree and feel that the definition of poverty is wrong, and in any event, people who are poor and can’t feed themselves properly are only in this position because of their own choices and decisions and so they should not be helped. What’s most striking is that the people who don’t think those in a position where they cannot afford to feed their children should not be helped, don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting children grow up malnourished. Tip for you guys, it’s not a good look." . I do not see a single poster suggesting that those who cannot afford to feed their children should not get help. However on order to help you need detailed information on how people are in this position. Why have they no money to feed their children.? Some will be in genuine need , others will have wasted it away. Why is their no support from other family members .? Is the situation long term or temporary .? Anyone familiar with the current benefits system will be aware that extensive help is already available . The child poverty action group list all the advice. I think you will find that the increased cost of living is not unique to the UK so you can hardly blame the government | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the takeaway from this thread is that many agree that there is too much child poverty and it is the government who is to blame because they created the circumstances for the cost of living to be so high. Some people however disagree and feel that the definition of poverty is wrong, and in any event, people who are poor and can’t feed themselves properly are only in this position because of their own choices and decisions and so they should not be helped. What’s most striking is that the people who don’t think those in a position where they cannot afford to feed their children should not be helped, don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting children grow up malnourished. Tip for you guys, it’s not a good look. From a much bigger perspective it is also creating a problem a couple of decades down the road when malnourished under-achieving kids become poor, under-achieving adults who contribute little to nothing towards the public purse."
Hungry kids don't learn at the same level nourished kids do, hungry kids have less energy and less concentration..
It seems some want to punish the children because of the 'choices' made by their parents some of whom are working two jobs and still having to claim WTC..
It's a bizarre attitude.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I always find it a bit disheartening when faced with the notion that millions of children are living in poverty, people respond with ‘ahhh but how do you define poverty?’ like it’s some sort of game. Understanding what poverty means is important. Looking at the website being quoted it talks of relative poverty, that measure is compared to the national median average income of the nation. if a person / family is below 60% of the average they class them as being in poverty. They will not be able to have the same food choices or participate in certain activities is an example of the difference. Without understanding the detail and the reality the word poverty it really only leaves people thinking of a starving child sitting in a room crying in the corner, that does help with donations though.. Give people the correct detail and then if action is needed it is understood and can be tackled We could look at food bank usage and decide if action should be taken. There are many measures, but the measures must be accurate and not one sided. Using a food bank doesn't mean you are in poverty as an example. That isn't right most people who use food banks are working, they do not have time to visit a soup kitchen (yes those places still exists mainly the homeless and those on universal credit use them as they have time during the day) so a food bank is the way to go for the working in poverty crowd. The Trussel Trust has the figures of who uses food banks and why, as for charities using over inflated figures to gain more money, charities I have been involved with charities who provide warm places, provide food and support and lobby governments in to action, without them things would be a lot worst for many of us. This year many charities will be providing support to many middle income families who 4 years ago never dreamed they would consider accepting support for bills, food to live without hope, now their mortgages have risen to unaffordable rates. sorry, I touched on this in my reply to another poster and didn't read this until after. What are your thoughts on the situation with people who have had their fixed rates end and are now using food banks because of repayment stress? Was it their decision to push their mortgage and not think about if rates went up, the banks for allowing them to go high. " They didn't see it coming they trusted their government. This is something I have seen in the 70's then thatcher did it in the 80's now truss has done it, all of those middle income families who will join the poverty line, it is something I have learned that the tories do create debt that will take years to pay off. As you can see the middle class have now joined the fray of people struggling everyday. To buy a house was an indicator of doing well now it is a trap in waiting something to be scared of for many. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the takeaway from this thread is that many agree that there is too much child poverty and it is the government who is to blame because they created the circumstances for the cost of living to be so high. Some people however disagree and feel that the definition of poverty is wrong, and in any event, people who are poor and can’t feed themselves properly are only in this position because of their own choices and decisions and so they should not be helped. What’s most striking is that the people who don’t think those in a position where they cannot afford to feed their children should not be helped, don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting children grow up malnourished. Tip for you guys, it’s not a good look. From a much bigger perspective it is also creating a problem a couple of decades down the road when malnourished under-achieving kids become poor, under-achieving adults who contribute little to nothing towards the public purse.
Hungry kids don't learn at the same level nourished kids do, hungry kids have less energy and less concentration..
It seems some want to punish the children because of the 'choices' made by their parents some of whom are working two jobs and still having to claim WTC..
It's a bizarre attitude..". Not a single poster wants to punish anyone. Most rational people would want to establish how the situation arose in the first instance and than decide the most appropriate means of providing help. The Universal Credit system already provides extensive help to those in need. Anyone who has completed a Universal Credit claim either for themselves or a third party would be aware of the extensive help available . It is fully computerised | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Hungry kids don't learn at the same level nourished kids do, hungry kids have less energy and less concentration.. It seems some want to punish the children because of the 'choices' made by their parents some of whom are working two jobs and still having to claim WTC.. It's a bizarre attitude.." Exactly this, the parents are not necessarily skint, but don’t cook, know how to cook, not much about nutrition. But have got money for their tats etc Feel for the kids life chances due to their feckless parents. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
