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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion " Any expertise in rehabilitation? | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion " so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ?" If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion Any expertise in rehabilitation?" Plenty of experience in watching failed attempts | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ?" Yes | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. " they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? Yes" no wonder you have plenty of failed attempts at rehabilitation if thats your veiws | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights" Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness. | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness." Did they? What exactly where they convicted of doing? | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness." theres no mention of why they are there ,and i think its barbaric | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion " Is there a reason given for this ? | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness. theres no mention of why they are there ,and i think its barbaric" Yes no mention why they are there. I was giving an example. Not barbaric at all. | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness. theres no mention of why they are there ,and i think its barbaric Yes no mention why they are there. I was giving an example. Not barbaric at all. " I see. It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness. theres no mention of why they are there ,and i think its barbaric Yes no mention why they are there. I was giving an example. Not barbaric at all. " so your quessing ,so what if it wasnt for the crime you mentioned ? | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion so you think its ok to lock young ppl up for 23 hrs a day ? If you commit a crime in full knowledge and understanding of what you are doing is illegal and wrong then you lose your liberties. they are losing their liberties,but to be locked up for 23hrs is barbaric and surely goes against human rights Not barbaric. If they threatened or hurt innocent people in their homes I don't see any harshness. theres no mention of why they are there ,and i think its barbaric Yes no mention why they are there. I was giving an example. Not barbaric at all. I see. It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. " Agree,and surely young offenders should be rehabilitated to learn them and keep them out of the prison system | |||
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"This is a progressives viagra pill, good luck getting any type of balanced contribution, which is a shame as it does require a rethink. Secondly, I hear they have run out of jail space in Scotland, what is going on up there?" you know more than me | |||
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"This is a progressives viagra pill, good luck getting any type of balanced contribution, which is a shame as it does require a rethink. Secondly, I hear they have run out of jail space in Scotland, what is going on up there?" where did you hear it? | |||
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"It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. " Indeed. It actually doesn't make them much better than the offenders. One group have caused injury to others. The other desires to cause injury. Both are of grave concern. | |||
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"It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. Indeed. It actually doesn't make them much better than the offenders. One group have caused injury to others. The other desires to cause injury. Both are of grave concern." What do you suggest is an answer that allows people to feel they are being protected and wrongs r being righted? This is a fundamental requirement of any government and society. | |||
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"It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. Indeed. It actually doesn't make them much better than the offenders. One group have caused injury to others. The other desires to cause injury. Both are of grave concern. What do you suggest is an answer that allows people to feel they are being protected and wrongs r being righted? This is a fundamental requirement of any government and society. " i know its not me who commented,surely you try help them and try stop them from re-ofending | |||
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"It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. Indeed. It actually doesn't make them much better than the offenders. One group have caused injury to others. The other desires to cause injury. Both are of grave concern. What do you suggest is an answer that allows people to feel they are being protected and wrongs r being righted? This is a fundamental requirement of any government and society. i know its not me who commented,surely you try help them and try stop them from re-ofending " How? What needs to change? | |||
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"It does seem pretty barbaric. And it definitely shows absolutely no desire to rehabilitate. Just punish. Indeed. It actually doesn't make them much better than the offenders. One group have caused injury to others. The other desires to cause injury. Both are of grave concern. What do you suggest is an answer that allows people to feel they are being protected and wrongs r being righted? This is a fundamental requirement of any government and society. i know its not me who commented,surely you try help them and try stop them from re-ofending How? What needs to change?" Rehabilitation is about teaching right from wrong ,so more rehabilitation and less being locked up for 23hrs | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion " Bring back borstal for young offenders, at least they would learn a trade like carpentry they may build a glider for escape.  | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion Bring back borstal for young offenders, at least they would learn a trade like carpentry they may build a glider for escape. "you can learn a trade in young offenders if you want and its part of your rehabilitation | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21]" Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade." dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do " They may have committed a crime against an innocent which the innocent person didn't want. So yea should be forced yo do it. Too slack on crime offenders in this country. They give two fingers up to the law | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do They may have committed a crime against an innocent which the innocent person didn't want. So yea should be forced yo do it. Too slack on crime offenders in this country. They give two fingers up to the law" Please say how your going to force somemone to do something they dont want to ?not everyone in yo has committed a crime against innocent ppl are they to be forced also | |||
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"Dont want to sit in a cell 23hrs a day, dont commit a crime that leads to prison, not rocket science is it" So you dont think offenders should be rehabilitated? | |||
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"The best form of rehabilitation is that which reforms and is evidence based, reducing re-offending. If we're to spend £millions on prison, it needs to benefit society more than just having people caged up in rooms. "  | |||
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"Dont want to sit in a cell 23hrs a day, dont commit a crime that leads to prison, not rocket science is it So you dont think offenders should be rehabilitated?" How do you try and prevent the offence being committed in the first place? Which is easier rehabilitate or prevent? | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do " Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think | |||
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"Dont want to sit in a cell 23hrs a day, dont commit a crime that leads to prison, not rocket science is it So you dont think offenders should be rehabilitated? How do you try and prevent the offence being committed in the first place? Which is easier rehabilitate or prevent?" should try both,or dont you agree | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think " Not all offenders get their doors kicked in ,or maybe you have evidence of this ? | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think " so how do you force them to learn a trade ? | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ?" Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. | |||
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"Dont want to sit in a cell 23hrs a day, dont commit a crime that leads to prison, not rocket science is it So you dont think offenders should be rehabilitated?" got half a dozen mates i grew up with who have been in and out of nick since there early 20s,none of em have ever taken courses why they been banged up, they hit the gym and get wasted while the in prison, soon as there out there back to dealing or on the rob, some people want to be rehabilitated majority look at prison as an occupational hazzard | |||
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"Dont want to sit in a cell 23hrs a day, dont commit a crime that leads to prison, not rocket science is it So you dont think offenders should be rehabilitated?got half a dozen mates i grew up with who have been in and out of nick since there early 20s,none of em have ever taken courses why they been banged up, they hit the gym and get wasted while the in prison, soon as there out there back to dealing or on the rob, some people want to be rehabilitated majority look at prison as an occupational hazzard" I know similar people and I agree with you on their attitude towards prison it gives them some peace and quiet away from the missus and kids. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment." Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.  | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way. "Should apply to all prisoners. Maybe it's a substitute for the Rwanda scheme as well. Then processing delays don't matter so much. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
Should apply to all prisoners.
Maybe it's a substitute for the Rwanda scheme as well. Then processing delays don't matter so much."You will have a target on your back, sleep with one eye open  | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
Should apply to all prisoners.
Maybe it's a substitute for the Rwanda scheme as well. Then processing delays don't matter so much."while I don't think the government should be pushing below min wage jobs... Could this be a way of doing something on min wage. Asylum seekers can only work for local councils say .... There's probably a "stealing our jobs thing" or "councils should pay proper wages to pick up litter" but it's an approach... | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way. "You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act. Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour. Amazing. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing."We already have forced captivity. Surely that's worse? | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing."Didn't take long.... Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given.... | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given...."Community service is essentially an alternative to alternative punishment, not in addition to. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
Community service is essentially an alternative to alternative punishment, not in addition to."You can get community service alongside a fine and suspended sentence. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
Community service is essentially an alternative to alternative punishment, not in addition to.
You can get community service alongside a fine and suspended sentence. "I didn’t know about fines - I knew it could be used alongside a suspended sentence. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing."at least they would be out of there cells | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
Community service is essentially an alternative to alternative punishment, not in addition to.
You can get community service alongside a fine and suspended sentence.
I didn’t know about fines - I knew it could be used alongside a suspended sentence."Regardless, community service can be in addition to (even if you take away the fine). A suspended sentence is custodial, community service isn't. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. " Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. " All of those, and I remember the bad lads army series 20 years ago where groups where sent to a military training camp, without exception the training staff and rsm turned them all around in a few weeks. Made them work together as a unit, many did really well a couple even joined up afterwards. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? " I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. | |||
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" ... Yes no mention why they are there. I was giving an example. Not barbaric at all. so your quessing ,so what if it wasnt for the crime you mentioned ? " Not reading the Daily Fail? | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. " You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities | |||
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"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion Bring back borstal for young offenders, at least they would learn a trade like carpentry they may build a glider for escape. you can learn a trade in young offenders if you want and its part of your rehabilitation"Wil be lucky to find anyone capable of teaching these skills nowadays. There is a whole generation of teachers now whose only practical abilities stem from 'Blue Peter' type C D and T. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities " And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. | |||
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"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that....." That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given...."I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. " How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few " I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. " You know how you know 'all things rail', I get the feeling Nik knows more than you about prisons | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. You know how you know 'all things rail', I get the feeling Nik knows more than you about prisons "I’ve not once claimed to know all about prisons, but the data on rehabilitation is freely available for all to read | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. " And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. You know how you know 'all things rail', I get the feeling Nik knows more than you about prisons
I’ve not once claimed to know all about prisons, but the data on rehabilitation is freely available for all to read "I didn't say you had. I agree with you re. rehab. I just get the feeling Nik knows what he's talking about. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. " Ah, I see. You didn’t read the bit where I said: ‘Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted?” Of course rehabilitation won’t work for all, but I’ve never claimed it would. However it will work for far more if we actually attempt it properly (as well as utilising schemes for ex-cons (and social schemes to prevent people falling into crim to begin with). I’ve not changed the narrative at all, my posts are all there to be seen - it’s clear now that you’ve simply misunderstood what I said | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. Ah, I see. You didn’t read the bit where I said: ‘Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted?” Of course rehabilitation won’t work for all, but I’ve never claimed it would. However it will work for far more if we actually attempt it properly (as well as utilising schemes for ex-cons (and social schemes to prevent people falling into crim to begin with). I’ve not changed the narrative at all, my posts are all there to be seen - it’s clear now that you’ve simply misunderstood what I said "No I read the bit where you said ‘Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree.’ I disagreed because the reality is that not that many prisoners are locked up 23 hours a day. The majority that are deserve to be (I am aware that some slip through the net). Tell me how you want to attempt it ‘properly’. Tell me how trying to deliver your programme to the masses will impact on those who are compliant and engaged in their rehabilitation. Tell me how you rehabilitate someone who has no need or desire to be rehabilitated… | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Not getting any more than an hour out of their cell ... learn the lesson! Best form of rehabilitation in my opinion " I prefer other ideas like having them spend the day helping the council get the streets clean or even helping farmers in the fields. In addition it would be good if each prison had its own little business making things for sale or restoring items for sale. That said, those that refuse to be rehabilitated or have been through the rehabilitation system but still constantly go back to crime, then being locked up all day maybe a valid option | |||
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out."Correct, you don't know. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. " Oh to live in your magical world | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world " Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. Ah, I see. You didn’t read the bit where I said: ‘Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted?” Of course rehabilitation won’t work for all, but I’ve never claimed it would. However it will work for far more if we actually attempt it properly (as well as utilising schemes for ex-cons (and social schemes to prevent people falling into crim to begin with). I’ve not changed the narrative at all, my posts are all there to be seen - it’s clear now that you’ve simply misunderstood what I said
No I read the bit where you said ‘Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree.’
I disagreed because the reality is that not that many prisoners are locked up 23 hours a day. The majority that are deserve to be (I am aware that some slip through the net).
Tell me how you want to attempt it ‘properly’. Tell me how trying to deliver your programme to the masses will impact on those who are compliant and engaged in their rehabilitation. Tell me how you rehabilitate someone who has no need or desire to be rehabilitated… "If you have someone who refuses to take part in any type of rehabilitation do they end up being locked for longer periods? I would imagine they would be the more disruptive of an already disruptive and volatile group. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. Ah, I see. You didn’t read the bit where I said: ‘Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted?” Of course rehabilitation won’t work for all, but I’ve never claimed it would. However it will work for far more if we actually attempt it properly (as well as utilising schemes for ex-cons (and social schemes to prevent people falling into crim to begin with). I’ve not changed the narrative at all, my posts are all there to be seen - it’s clear now that you’ve simply misunderstood what I said
No I read the bit where you said ‘Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree.’
I disagreed because the reality is that not that many prisoners are locked up 23 hours a day. The majority that are deserve to be (I am aware that some slip through the net).
Tell me how you want to attempt it ‘properly’. Tell me how trying to deliver your programme to the masses will impact on those who are compliant and engaged in their rehabilitation. Tell me how you rehabilitate someone who has no need or desire to be rehabilitated…
If you have someone who refuses to take part in any type of rehabilitation do they end up being locked for longer periods? I would imagine they would be the more disruptive of an already disruptive and volatile group."That’s the theory, but the reality is too many know how to game the system. I’ve already said far more than I ever intended to so I’m out now… | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out.
Correct, you don't know. "Correct, I don't know the answer to your random and unrelated question. Do you know? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out.
Correct, you don't know.
Correct, I don't know the answer to your random and unrelated question.
Do you know?"unrelated PMSL | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out.
Correct, you don't know. "Bullseye for your random and unrelated question | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. Ah, I see. You didn’t read the bit where I said: ‘Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted?” Of course rehabilitation won’t work for all, but I’ve never claimed it would. However it will work for far more if we actually attempt it properly (as well as utilising schemes for ex-cons (and social schemes to prevent people falling into crim to begin with). I’ve not changed the narrative at all, my posts are all there to be seen - it’s clear now that you’ve simply misunderstood what I said
No I read the bit where you said ‘Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree.’
I disagreed because the reality is that not that many prisoners are locked up 23 hours a day. The majority that are deserve to be (I am aware that some slip through the net).
Tell me how you want to attempt it ‘properly’. Tell me how trying to deliver your programme to the masses will impact on those who are compliant and engaged in their rehabilitation. Tell me how you rehabilitate someone who has no need or desire to be rehabilitated…
If you have someone who refuses to take part in any type of rehabilitation do they end up being locked for longer periods? I would imagine they would be the more disruptive of an already disruptive and volatile group.
That’s the theory, but the reality is too many know how to game the system. I’ve already said far more than I ever intended to so I’m out now… " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours?" In my world if you do the crime, you do the time and make it so unpleasant that won't do it again. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. " | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given...."Dont think you understand the difference between community service or being sent to prison | |||
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"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours? In my world if you do the crime, you do the time and make it so unpleasant that won't do it again. " Cool story, bro. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. You know how you know 'all things rail', I get the feeling Nik knows more than you about prisons "what gives you that feeling? | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. " Ok I have been through the posts and I can not find the 'and what if they still don't do it' comment anywhere, are you making stuff up. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. " Does everyone get offered the chance to rehabilitate | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. Ok I have been through the posts and I can not find the 'and what if they still don't do it' comment anywhere, are you making stuff up. "i dont need to make stuff up,so what if they dont do it ? Whats next | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. Ok I have been through the posts and I can not find the 'and what if they still don't do it' comment anywhere, are you making stuff up. i dont need to make stuff up,so what if they dont do it ? Whats next"Naa I'm not engaging with someone who makes stuff up to make a point of a post, for them to say I don't need to make stuff up when it is clear you have. | |||
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"Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree. Why do you feel the need to speak for everyone when it’s clear you have no knowledge in this area? I mean sure, people are welcome to think that 23 hours a day lockup is an effective form of rehabilitation, but it does require them to ignore actual data on the subject. You’re looking at it all wrong, from a let’s save everyone perfect situation. I’ve already told you that 23 hours in a cell is a lazy inaccurate headline. Only a small majority does this figure apply to. Please tell me how you plan on rehabilitating someone for whom jail is a badge of honour or a place to hang out with their mates and cause more havoc? Or someone with years or addiction and / or mental health issues? As I have previously said, there is some amazing work that goes on in prisons but it goes unrecognised. Lazy headlines do not help. Some prisoners are only fit for being locked up, others willing to engage have endless opportunities And you’re using anecdotal ‘evidence’ against actual data. Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted? And 23 hours lockup is becoming more common - again, backed up by data. This is due to staffing/funding problems. All well documented. How do you know what evidence I’m using? You’re talking about a few Victorian jails that probably aren’t fit for purpose. There are 120 prisons of which these are only a few I’ve looked at quite a lot of data on this over the past couple of years when I saw it pop up on social media. The correlation between rehabilitation and non-reoffending is impossible to deny. As is the reverse. And you have the cheek to question my ‘evidence’! You’ve answered non of my questions, and change the narrative on every post. The reality, whether you like it or not is rehabilitation for all is not possible. For someone ready who wants to engage it is life changing. Ah, I see. You didn’t read the bit where I said: ‘Can everyone be saved? No, they can’t. Does that mean that rehabilitation doesn’t work and shouldn’t be attempted?” Of course rehabilitation won’t work for all, but I’ve never claimed it would. However it will work for far more if we actually attempt it properly (as well as utilising schemes for ex-cons (and social schemes to prevent people falling into crim to begin with). I’ve not changed the narrative at all, my posts are all there to be seen - it’s clear now that you’ve simply misunderstood what I said
No I read the bit where you said ‘Any work schemes, community service, education/rehabilitation are all better options than simply looking someone up for 23 hours a day, I’m sure we’d all agree.’
I disagreed because the reality is that not that many prisoners are locked up 23 hours a day. The majority that are deserve to be (I am aware that some slip through the net).
Tell me how you want to attempt it ‘properly’. Tell me how trying to deliver your programme to the masses will impact on those who are compliant and engaged in their rehabilitation. Tell me how you rehabilitate someone who has no need or desire to be rehabilitated… "is that not what the guy is saying that all prisons have rehab there for anyone who wants it | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. Ok I have been through the posts and I can not find the 'and what if they still don't do it' comment anywhere, are you making stuff up. i dont need to make stuff up,so what if they dont do it ? Whats next
Naa I'm not engaging with someone who makes stuff up to make a point of a post, for them to say I don't need to make stuff up when it is clear you have."aye ok lol jl let you batter on and keep making an arse of yourself lol | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. Ok I have been through the posts and I can not find the 'and what if they still don't do it' comment anywhere, are you making stuff up. i dont need to make stuff up,so what if they dont do it ? Whats next
Naa I'm not engaging with someone who makes stuff up to make a point of a post, for them to say I don't need to make stuff up when it is clear you have.aye ok lol jl let you batter on and keep making an arse of yourself lol"Lol the deflection of this character is comical. | |||
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"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours? In my world if you do the crime, you do the time and make it so unpleasant that won't do it again. " and what if that doesnt work?and no rehab? | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 16/02/24 00:39:21] Choose to learn a trade were it should be you will learn a trade.dont think you can force someone to do something they dont want to do And what if they still wont do it? Well they dragged them to court in handcuffs against their will after kicking their door down and then threw them in jail. Lots of force used I think so how do you force them to learn a trade ? Kickem out the cell and put a saw and a piece of wood in their hands. Ok I have been through the posts and I can not find the 'and what if they still don't do it' comment anywhere, are you making stuff up. i dont need to make stuff up,so what if they dont do it ? Whats next
Naa I'm not engaging with someone who makes stuff up to make a point of a post, for them to say I don't need to make stuff up when it is clear you have.aye ok lol jl let you batter on and keep making an arse of yourself lol
Lol the deflection of this character is comical."think you should put your specs on and have another look for the comment lol | |||
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"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours? In my world if you do the crime, you do the time and make it so unpleasant that won't do it again. Cool story, bro." And that's the best you can do? Hardly surprising this country is in the shit it's in | |||
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"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours? In my world if you do the crime, you do the time and make it so unpleasant that won't do it again. Cool story, bro. And that's the best you can do? Hardly surprising this country is in the shit it's in " The point that you failed to accept, is that since the 18th/19th century, rehabilitation has formed part of prison. You appear to deny this. | |||
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"Dont want to sit in a cell 23hrs a day, dont commit a crime that leads to prison, not rocket science is it So you dont think offenders should be rehabilitated? How do you try and prevent the offence being committed in the first place? Which is easier rehabilitate or prevent?" ----------- It should be a combination of both but the challenge with prevention is proving effectiveness as we don't know who would have gone on to offend in the future. | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out.
Correct, you don't know.
Correct, I don't know the answer to your random and unrelated question.
Do you know?
unrelated PMSL "Maybe if you could explain what kind of point you're trying to make. It would help. I gave you some information. You asked me a random question, and then took it as some kind of weird victory because neither of us knew the answer. | |||
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"I'm sure I read about a time whereby you did something wrong, you got punished, you learned your lesson and that was that..... That’ll be why career criminal never used to exist. Oh to live in your magical world Well in my world, prisons have used some form of rehabilitation alongside punishment since the 18th/19th century. How about yours? In my world if you do the crime, you do the time and make it so unpleasant that won't do it again. Cool story, bro. And that's the best you can do? Hardly surprising this country is in the shit it's in The point that you failed to accept, is that since the 18th/19th century, rehabilitation has formed part of prison. You appear to deny this." Not at all. I simply disagree with it. I could refer you to the UK rehabilitation of offenders act 1974 but I doubt we'll agree. I'm a spare the rod spoil the child type, you're clearly not | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out.
Correct, you don't know.
Correct, I don't know the answer to your random and unrelated question.
Do you know?
unrelated PMSL
Maybe if you could explain what kind of point you're trying to make. It would help.
I gave you some information. You asked me a random question, and then took it as some kind of weird victory because neither of us knew the answer."there was no weird victory, only you thought that! | |||
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"Chain gangs are the answer. Fixing the things our councils can't be arsed to do. Roads, litter picking general maintenance of our environment. Oh no that can’t happen, forcing people to do things against their will, nooooo way.
You'd have to change the law. Forced labour is banned under the modern sl4very act.
Is that what we're down to now, people calling for sl4ve labour.
Amazing.
Didn't take long....
Question, how does the punishment of community work get around this? You know, tidying up the walkway, graffiti and other jobs that the council can't do for the money they are given....
I don't know. Why don't you read the modern sl4very act and find out.
Correct, you don't know.
Correct, I don't know the answer to your random and unrelated question.
Do you know?
unrelated PMSL
Maybe if you could explain what kind of point you're trying to make. It would help.
I gave you some information. You asked me a random question, and then took it as some kind of weird victory because neither of us knew the answer.
there was no weird victory, only you thought that! "So what was the point you were making by asking the question? | |||
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"I'm a spare the rod spoil the child type, you're clearly not " . My parents followed this philosophy. Apparently it means "If children are not physically punished when they do wrong their personal development will suffer." . I can only speak from my own experience, but my personal development suffered anyway because I was physically punished. . I developed a deep loathing for my parents, and neither have been forgiven. . My father passed some years ago. He remarried. I decided after my parents divorced not to maintain contact with a child-beater. We did not speak for 40 years. I saw him a year before he died., then he was gone. I have no regret at all, not one bit. He chose to physically punish and that choice came with consequences. Spare the rod and spoil the child indeed. | |||
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"I'm a spare the rod spoil the child type, you're clearly not . My parents followed this philosophy. Apparently it means "If children are not physically punished when they do wrong their personal development will suffer." . I can only speak from my own experience, but my personal development suffered anyway because I was physically punished. . I developed a deep loathing for my parents, and neither have been forgiven. . My father passed some years ago. He remarried. I decided after my parents divorced not to maintain contact with a child-beater. We did not speak for 40 years. I saw him a year before he died., then he was gone. I have no regret at all, not one bit. He chose to physically punish and that choice came with consequences. Spare the rod and spoil the child indeed." I have never heard that saying but anyone who hits a child is an abuser in my opinion,and dont blame you for cutting contact i would have done the same,and those who think its ok should take a right good look at themselves | |||
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"Spare the rod and spoil the child indeed." "I have never heard that saying but anyone who hits a child is an abuser in my opinion ..." It's a very well known phrase, and nowadays it just means that a lack of punishment will harm development. It no longer means physical punishment. | |||
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"I'm a spare the rod spoil the child type, you're clearly not . My parents followed this philosophy. Apparently it means "If children are not physically punished when they do wrong their personal development will suffer." . I can only speak from my own experience, but my personal development suffered anyway because I was physically punished. . I developed a deep loathing for my parents, and neither have been forgiven. . My father passed some years ago. He remarried. I decided after my parents divorced not to maintain contact with a child-beater. We did not speak for 40 years. I saw him a year before he died., then he was gone. I have no regret at all, not one bit. He chose to physically punish and that choice came with consequences. Spare the rod and spoil the child indeed." ------------------- ...and presumably you didn't end up a serial killer or terrorise old ladies! | |||
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"I'm a spare the rod spoil the child type, you're clearly not . My parents followed this philosophy. Apparently it means "If children are not physically punished when they do wrong their personal development will suffer." . I can only speak from my own experience, but my personal development suffered anyway because I was physically punished. . I developed a deep loathing for my parents, and neither have been forgiven. . My father passed some years ago. He remarried. I decided after my parents divorced not to maintain contact with a child-beater. We did not speak for 40 years. I saw him a year before he died., then he was gone. I have no regret at all, not one bit. He chose to physically punish and that choice came with consequences. Spare the rod and spoil the child indeed." I hear this. I vowed never to lay a finger on my kids after the way my old man beat the piss out of me growing up. That’s one of the achievements I’m most proud of, as simple as it is. | |||
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"Rehabilitation does not work in the UK, unless society changes in never will, Mrs x" I would dispute that as i know a few that it has worked for | |||
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"There's a lovely barge somewhere in England to stick then on" Why would you want to stick them on a barge | |||
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"There's a lovely barge somewhere in England to stick then on Why would you want to stick them on a barge " To try and bond with posters of similar disposition? | |||
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"Rehabilitation does not work in the UK, unless society changes in never will, Mrs x I would dispute that as i know a few that it has worked for" A few is not enough, the vast majority it won't work for, Mrs x | |||
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"Rehabilitation does not work in the UK, unless society changes in never will, Mrs x I would dispute that as i know a few that it has worked forA few is not enough, the vast majority it won't work for, Mrs x" Id dispute that too as if it helps a few then thats a success | |||
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"Rehabilitation does not work in the UK, unless society changes in never will, Mrs x I would dispute that as i know a few that it has worked forA few is not enough, the vast majority it won't work for, Mrs x" So what is the answer? No rehabilitation attempts at all? | |||
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"Rehabilitation does not work in the UK, unless society changes in never will, Mrs x I would dispute that as i know a few that it has worked forA few is not enough, the vast majority it won't work for, Mrs x" So if it doesnt work for the vast majority,then help no one ? | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower." Money isn't something which we lack. We currently spend around £50k/annum per prisoner. Resources will always be lacking until the willpower is there. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower. Money isn't something which we lack. We currently spend around £50k/annum per prisoner. Resources will always be lacking until the willpower is there. " does that include rehabilitation,a gen question as i dont know the answer | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower. Money isn't something which we lack. We currently spend around £50k/annum per prisoner. Resources will always be lacking until the willpower is there. does that include rehabilitation,a gen question as i dont know the answer" It's per prisoner housed so I assume some of that cost is rehabilitation | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower. Money isn't something which we lack. We currently spend around £50k/annum per prisoner. Resources will always be lacking until the willpower is there. does that include rehabilitation,a gen question as i dont know the answer It's per prisoner housed so I assume some of that cost is rehabilitation " cheers | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower." You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x" That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison." So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x" There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. " Probation service? | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. " Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service?" Does probation count as a rehabilitation scheme? | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service?" That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? Does probation count as a rehabilitation scheme? " According to research, For cases getting high-quality probation supervision, the sentence completion rate was 24 percentage points higher, and the reoffending rate was 14 percentage points lower than for cases where supervision was judged to be inadequate by our inspectors. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x" I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. " That's equivalent of offering a starving person a meal of no nutritional value. On the surface it appears altruistic but its an empty gesture. They know what they could do but choose not to, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. That's equivalent of offering a starving person a meal of no nutritional value. On the surface it appears altruistic but its an empty gesture. They know what they could do but choose not to, Mrs x" So we should do away with the probation service? And not offer any, say, fast food to the homeless? | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. That's equivalent of offering a starving person a meal of no nutritional value. On the surface it appears altruistic but its an empty gesture. They know what they could do but choose not to, Mrs x So we should do away with the probation service? And not offer any, say, fast food to the homeless?" I think the funds used currently on systems the government know are failing should be put into fixing societal problems for the poorest demographic in the country. By taking away the need to commit crime would have a much greater effect on the prison population than I'll thought through schemes that are obviously not working. Rehabilitation is an individualistic process, and unless there is an individual tailored programme it is on to a lower before it begins. Fixing the reasons people turn to crime is a much more effective policy. But like I said, 'Tough on Crime' is a vote winner and that's what the voters seem to want. I'm not saying that's what I want or believe, it's just how it is right now. It needs a change of mindset before it will get better, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs x" you say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ?" Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs x | |||
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"Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit" I'd like to hear more. In his opinion, does rehabilitation fail because it is not well enough supported, because the philosophy is wrong, or because the offenders just can't be rehabilitated? | |||
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"Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit I'd like to hear more. In his opinion, does rehabilitation fail because it is not well enough supported, because the philosophy is wrong, or because the offenders just can't be rehabilitated?" Think he believes it's a mixture of all three. There's not enough money put into the prison system to operate it just as a place of incarceration, let alone as a place for rehabilitation. The philosophy regarding the penal system in the UK is one of punishment. Like I've mentioned before it's a vote winner, so there's really not much political will towards rehabilitation. As for prisoners wanting to engage in rehabilitation he found that running programmes that were generic to a certain crime and class of inmate was ineffective. Take theft, which is quite a common offence. There will be thousands incarcerated for this at any one time, yet even though they have committed the same crime they may have had different motivations for doing so. You have to rehabilitate the individual, not the crime. Therefore a scatter gun approach will not work, you need an individual approach and that's not going to work. There are all sorts of other reasons rehabilitation won't work. Lack of engagement, nature of crimes committed, type of crime and lots more. Some can become a danger to society in an instant and then instantly return to never being a threat again, others will always be extremely dangerous and there's a whole spectrum in between. How do you rehabilitate crimes of ideology or desire? He hated the fact that he was helping to run a system that locked up people that should never be jailed in the first place. That's why he believes there needs to be a societal change. Fix the reasons to prevent criminality starting in the first place. Those crimes of economics, deprevation, addiction. It's not going to work for everyone but it should help, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. That's equivalent of offering a starving person a meal of no nutritional value. On the surface it appears altruistic but its an empty gesture. They know what they could do but choose not to, Mrs x So we should do away with the probation service? And not offer any, say, fast food to the homeless? I think the funds used currently on systems the government know are failing should be put into fixing societal problems for the poorest demographic in the country. By taking away the need to commit crime would have a much greater effect on the prison population than I'll thought through schemes that are obviously not working. Rehabilitation is an individualistic process, and unless there is an individual tailored programme it is on to a lower before it begins. Fixing the reasons people turn to crime is a much more effective policy. But like I said, 'Tough on Crime' is a vote winner and that's what the voters seem to want. I'm not saying that's what I want or believe, it's just how it is right now. It needs a change of mindset before it will get better, Mrs x" What do you mean by 'taking away the need to commit crime'? Whilst I agree that 'tough on crime' is a vote winner, I'm pretty sure that most normal folk would prefer no crime. We can blame Govt all we like but the reality is that some people are bad people and will commit crime regardless. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. That's equivalent of offering a starving person a meal of no nutritional value. On the surface it appears altruistic but its an empty gesture. They know what they could do but choose not to, Mrs x So we should do away with the probation service? And not offer any, say, fast food to the homeless? I think the funds used currently on systems the government know are failing should be put into fixing societal problems for the poorest demographic in the country. By taking away the need to commit crime would have a much greater effect on the prison population than I'll thought through schemes that are obviously not working. Rehabilitation is an individualistic process, and unless there is an individual tailored programme it is on to a lower before it begins. Fixing the reasons people turn to crime is a much more effective policy. But like I said, 'Tough on Crime' is a vote winner and that's what the voters seem to want. I'm not saying that's what I want or believe, it's just how it is right now. It needs a change of mindset before it will get better, Mrs x What do you mean by 'taking away the need to commit crime'? Whilst I agree that 'tough on crime' is a vote winner, I'm pretty sure that most normal folk would prefer no crime. We can blame Govt all we like but the reality is that some people are bad people and will commit crime regardless. " I agree wholeheartedly with you, there will always be people who commit crimes but not all are bad, some most definitely are, but not all. There are loads of crimes that are committed that can never be accounted for, crimes of passion being one area. When I say take away the need for crime, I could have worded that better. I mean if you legalised drugs that would possibly take away the need to commit crime to fund a habit. Now I know this won't stop all the crime here but it would definitely help. If history has taught us anything prohibition feeds criminality. Economic crimes like theft could be reduced if people are given a decent, living wage thereby reducing the need to turn to theft in the first place. Change the system, invest in housing, and communities, give people opportunities and hope that there is a way forward. Prisons are full of poor, ill educated, poorly housed individuals that feel disenfranchised by our current system. Helping them with their lives outside of prison would have a massive effect. Otherwise anything else is bolting the gate after the horse has bolted, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Probation service? That's also failing, you only have to look at reopening rates, Mrs x I didn't say it was succeeding, I was suggesting that the Govt do offer support by the way of the probation service. Whether that support is any good or not is another debate. That's equivalent of offering a starving person a meal of no nutritional value. On the surface it appears altruistic but its an empty gesture. They know what they could do but choose not to, Mrs x So we should do away with the probation service? And not offer any, say, fast food to the homeless? I think the funds used currently on systems the government know are failing should be put into fixing societal problems for the poorest demographic in the country. By taking away the need to commit crime would have a much greater effect on the prison population than I'll thought through schemes that are obviously not working. Rehabilitation is an individualistic process, and unless there is an individual tailored programme it is on to a lower before it begins. Fixing the reasons people turn to crime is a much more effective policy. But like I said, 'Tough on Crime' is a vote winner and that's what the voters seem to want. I'm not saying that's what I want or believe, it's just how it is right now. It needs a change of mindset before it will get better, Mrs x What do you mean by 'taking away the need to commit crime'? Whilst I agree that 'tough on crime' is a vote winner, I'm pretty sure that most normal folk would prefer no crime. We can blame Govt all we like but the reality is that some people are bad people and will commit crime regardless. " When you say that most people would like no crime you are absolutely right. 99.98%, very roughly, will never go to jail in their lives. Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs x" as someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended" Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x" you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course " As I said it may work for certain individuals but not in the numbers to suggest it's a success. If it did reopening rates wouldn't be as high as they are. This is an objective fact. Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course As I said it may work for certain individuals but not in the numbers to suggest it's a success. If it did reopening rates wouldn't be as high as they are. This is an objective fact. Mrs x" whats reopening times? My point is that rehab does work and if if keeps even just one person out of prison then its a success in my opinion | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course As I said it may work for certain individuals but not in the numbers to suggest it's a success. If it did reopening rates wouldn't be as high as they are. This is an objective fact. Mrs xwhats reopening times? My point is that rehab does work and if if keeps even just one person out of prison then its a success in my opinion " re-offending, its not a success at just one person. So you are ok with millions spent for a result of just one! We have vastly different opinions on success. Wouldn't you want that money spent on making prisons safer for inmates and your colleagues? Wouldn't you want your taxes spent on schemes to improve the life chances for poorer communities to ensure there are more opportunities and hope for this section of society before they turn to crime? Schemes that would benefit prisons, reduce actual prison populations and benefiting society as a whole, including the 99.98% of society that will never go to jail. Or do you think that this current scheme of failed attempts at rehabilitation is a success if it saves just one person. Surely prevention is better than the cure, not that it should be called a cure at the rates it actually helps inmates now. Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course As I said it may work for certain individuals but not in the numbers to suggest it's a success. If it did reopening rates wouldn't be as high as they are. This is an objective fact. Mrs xwhats reopening times? My point is that rehab does work and if if keeps even just one person out of prison then its a success in my opinion re-offending, its not a success at just one person. So you are ok with millions spent for a result of just one! We have vastly different opinions on success. Wouldn't you want that money spent on making prisons safer for inmates and your colleagues? Wouldn't you want your taxes spent on schemes to improve the life chances for poorer communities to ensure there are more opportunities and hope for this section of society before they turn to crime? Schemes that would benefit prisons, reduce actual prison populations and benefiting society as a whole, including the 99.98% of society that will never go to jail. Or do you think that this current scheme of failed attempts at rehabilitation is a success if it saves just one person. Surely prevention is better than the cure, not that it should be called a cure at the rates it actually helps inmates now. Mrs x" 2 years of 8 hour days 6 days a week hard labour breaking rocks was my last stint in jail said the rehabilitated person. | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course As I said it may work for certain individuals but not in the numbers to suggest it's a success. If it did reopening rates wouldn't be as high as they are. This is an objective fact. Mrs xwhats reopening times? My point is that rehab does work and if if keeps even just one person out of prison then its a success in my opinion re-offending, its not a success at just one person. So you are ok with millions spent for a result of just one! We have vastly different opinions on success. Wouldn't you want that money spent on making prisons safer for inmates and your colleagues? Wouldn't you want your taxes spent on schemes to improve the life chances for poorer communities to ensure there are more opportunities and hope for this section of society before they turn to crime? Schemes that would benefit prisons, reduce actual prison populations and benefiting society as a whole, including the 99.98% of society that will never go to jail. Or do you think that this current scheme of failed attempts at rehabilitation is a success if it saves just one person. Surely prevention is better than the cure, not that it should be called a cure at the rates it actually helps inmates now. Mrs x 2 years of 8 hour days 6 days a week hard labour breaking rocks was my last stint in jail said the rehabilitated person. "Don't think you are old enough to have done that in a UK jail haha, Mrs x | |||
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"We have adequate data from other nations that rehabilitation works, but it’s not cheap, and it doesn’t end when you leave prison. What we lack is money, resources and willpower.You can't rehabilitate criminals and then expect to release them back into the same environment that turned them to criminality in the first place. Fix the reasons why crime takes place and then rehabilitation has a chance, until then it doesn't, Mrs x That’s literally why I said rehabilitation doesn’t end when you leave prison.So what grand scheme is there for rehabilitation on the outside?, Mrs x There are some schemes, and some companies are very good - though no govt. support that I’m aware of. It’s a huge failing. Because the government has a mandate to lock up criminals and keep them away from the rest of us. That's what the electorate want, in the UK prison is seen as a punishment, not a place of reform. So in that sense prison does its job and is working. Rehabilitation inside prison is just given lip service, it's not delivered in any great way. They been trying this for a couple of hundred years and they cannot find a system that works, Mrs xyou say rehabilitaion in prison is just given lip service,and not given in any great way,where do you get your info for this ? Hubby worked for the Prison Service from the 80's to the 00's, through the grades from officer to Governor grade. He worked in several prisons from the worst cat A Dispersals, to local jails, specialised sex offender units at cat C jails and one of the worst YOI's. He has seen first hand, the problems with rehabilitation in the penal system. His disappointment surrounding what little difference rehabilitation made on inmates lives was one of the reasons he decided to quit, Mrs xas someone who still works in the prison service i dont think you can tak one mans experience as how it works ,i have seen many inmates helped by rehab,who have been released and not re-offended Not yet... I'm not saying it doesn't work for some individuals, it may do. But the recidivism rates indicate its not effective for the cost and effort it requires. Can you point to a specific rehabilitation programme that's shown to be successful? Mrs x you say not yet some of the ones i know have been out over 10 yrs or more and now have jobs and familes of their own,the rehab i seen working was how to manage anger management,having dialoge with victims and apoligizing which in my exp was the hardest thing to do,and giving them something to work towards be that a trade or college course As I said it may work for certain individuals but not in the numbers to suggest it's a success. If it did reopening rates wouldn't be as high as they are. This is an objective fact. Mrs xwhats reopening times? My point is that rehab does work and if if keeps even just one person out of prison then its a success in my opinion re-offending, its not a success at just one person. So you are ok with millions spent for a result of just one! We have vastly different opinions on success. Wouldn't you want that money spent on making prisons safer for inmates and your colleagues? Wouldn't you want your taxes spent on schemes to improve the life chances for poorer communities to ensure there are more opportunities and hope for this section of society before they turn to crime? Schemes that would benefit prisons, reduce actual prison populations and benefiting society as a whole, including the 99.98% of society that will never go to jail. Or do you think that this current scheme of failed attempts at rehabilitation is a success if it saves just one person. Surely prevention is better than the cure, not that it should be called a cure at the rates it actually helps inmates now. Mrs x 2 years of 8 hour days 6 days a week hard labour breaking rocks was my last stint in jail said the rehabilitated person. Don't think you are old enough to have done that in a UK jail haha, Mrs x"Would it reduce the re offending rates thou, and by the way I wasn't talking about myself | |||
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"I don't thi hard labour would have much, if any, effect on rehabilitation effectiveness, Mrs x" Do you mean not re offending when you say rehabilitation. | |||
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"I don't thi hard labour would have much, if any, effect on rehabilitation effectiveness, Mrs x Do you mean not re offending when you say rehabilitation. " I just don't see how that will help with rehabilitation and therefore would have no real effect on reoffending rates, Mrs x | |||
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"I don't thi hard labour would have much, if any, effect on rehabilitation effectiveness, Mrs x Do you mean not re offending when you say rehabilitation. I just don't see how that will help with rehabilitation and therefore would have no real effect on reoffending rates, Mrs x" I see it as a possible cure for re offending, second helpings of hard Labour I can't see people preferring that over 23hrs sitting about stewing. | |||
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"I don't thi hard labour would have much, if any, effect on rehabilitation effectiveness, Mrs x Do you mean not re offending when you say rehabilitation. I just don't see how that will help with rehabilitation and therefore would have no real effect on reoffending rates, Mrs x I see it as a possible cure for re offending, second helpings of hard Labour I can't see people preferring that over 23hrs sitting about stewing." Just don't see it working. It never worked previously, so why now? Mrs x | |||
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"I don't thi hard labour would have much, if any, effect on rehabilitation effectiveness, Mrs x Do you mean not re offending when you say rehabilitation. I just don't see how that will help with rehabilitation and therefore would have no real effect on reoffending rates, Mrs x I see it as a possible cure for re offending, second helpings of hard Labour I can't see people preferring that over 23hrs sitting about stewing.Just don't see it working. It never worked previously, so why now? Mrs x" Why not now, maybe they want people to re offend big money in keeping prisons full. | |||
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"I don't thi hard labour would have much, if any, effect on rehabilitation effectiveness, Mrs x Do you mean not re offending when you say rehabilitation. I just don't see how that will help with rehabilitation and therefore would have no real effect on reoffending rates, Mrs x I see it as a possible cure for re offending, second helpings of hard Labour I can't see people preferring that over 23hrs sitting about stewing.Just don't see it working. It never worked previously, so why now? Mrs x Why not now, maybe they want people to re offend big money in keeping prisons full." Big money for who, maybe the handful of private prisons but HMP prisons are a drain on the economy, Mrs x | |||
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"I see it as a possible cure for re offending, second helpings of hard Labour I can't see people preferring that over 23hrs sitting about stewing." Can't you? I can see lots of people choosing hard labour. It gets you outside, it's a good core workout, it means you can avoid the muscle marys at the gym, you'd get extra food, you'd end your term fitter than you've ever been, etc. | |||
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"I see it as a possible cure for re offending, second helpings of hard Labour I can't see people preferring that over 23hrs sitting about stewing. Can't you? I can see lots of people choosing hard labour. It gets you outside, it's a good core workout, it means you can avoid the muscle marys at the gym, you'd get extra food, you'd end your term fitter than you've ever been, etc." Extra food it's only single file stand to attention 8 hrs of rock breaking. Minimum 5 lb hammer though. | |||
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