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" a rush of UK pork" In 2014 Liz Truss went to Beijing to open up new pork markets | |||
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" a rush of UK pork In 2014 Liz Truss went to Beijing to open up new pork markets" THAT speech  OMG she was/is a total embarrassment. Devoid of any personality. A total sawdust filled head of a Turton St marionette! | |||
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" a rush of UK pork In 2014 Liz Truss went to Beijing to open up new pork markets THAT speech OMG she was/is a total embarrassment. Devoid of any personality. A total sawdust filled head of a Turton St marionette! "I frequently drive past the school she went to in Leeds. Every time, I remember her saying "that school failed me". It is a state school and she got into Oxford. How did it fail her ? | |||
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"On the four-year anniversary of Brexit last Wednesday, business and trade secretary Kemi Badenoch trumpeted its successes. “The British people’s conviction that the UK would excel as masters of our own fate has paid dividends,” she said, launching a report detailing the benefits. Among the top achievements listed were booming sales of honey to Saudi Arabia, surging pet food exports to India, a rush of UK pork, worth £18m over five years, heading into Mexico’s restaurants and homes, and UK beauty products sales leaping in China, thanks to barriers being smashed." 
Ministers love to push the successes (only natural), but let's have transparency here (not natural for ministers) what are the failings?
Makes me laugh when ministers claim success for getting inflation down, ermmm wasn't that the bank of England's success? What exactly did the govt do? | |||
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" a rush of UK pork In 2014 Liz Truss went to Beijing to open up new pork markets THAT speech OMG she was/is a total embarrassment. Devoid of any personality. A total sawdust filled head of a Turton St marionette!
I frequently drive past the school she went to in Leeds. Every time, I remember her saying "that school failed me". It is a state school and she got into Oxford. How did it fail her ?"The school failed all of us. She should still be held back a lifetime detention! | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. " It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! | |||
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" The school failed all of us. She should still be held back a lifetime detention!"   | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will!" I’m concerned that Labour will obsessively spout the ‘we’re not rejoining the SM/CU’ line and the tories will leap on it at some point in 5-10 years. | |||
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" Among the top achievements listed were booming sales of honey to Saudi Arabia" I have just been reading an article about the head of the British beekeepers association. He says he knows of no members selling much honey to Saudi. He says Brexit has had a negative impact on beekeeping as Queen bees have to be imported from Southern Europe, which is now subject to red tape and expense. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will!" I have read this statement a number of times and still never really understand how it is true. Who were / are the small amount of people that designed brexit for self enrichment? | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will!" And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.  | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them. "Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now) | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)"Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again! Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! I have read this statement a number of times and still never really understand how it is true. Who were / are the small amount of people that designed brexit for self enrichment? " A good place to start is looking at those who personally benefitted (IE Jacob Rees Mogg), or those who thought they would benefit from the removal of workers rights, environment standards etc (Tim Martin). | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
"Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t. And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! I have read this statement a number of times and still never really understand how it is true. Who were / are the small amount of people that designed brexit for self enrichment? A good place to start is looking at those who personally benefitted (IE Jacob Rees Mogg), or those who thought they would benefit from the removal of workers rights, environment standards etc (Tim Martin)." Even Tim Martin has recently said what a mess it is. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! I have read this statement a number of times and still never really understand how it is true. Who were / are the small amount of people that designed brexit for self enrichment? A good place to start is looking at those who personally benefitted (IE Jacob Rees Mogg), or those who thought they would benefit from the removal of workers rights, environment standards etc (Tim Martin)." To plan to benefit as you say above from a strategy such as brexit can only make sense if the outcome is to leave the EU. Putting plans in place or aiming for something based on such a risk is not something I could prescribe to, the closeness of the result indicates that. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take. "We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break. "When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)"Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take. "A change in trade benefits is what could take decades, the impact of brexit does go wider than that and those elements are the the influencers on short term polls I would suggest. When ETIAS comes in this year (probably) that will dip the polls even more. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)"Which ever way the referendum went we would still have a dysfunctional disingenuous democracy divieing up dividing dogmatic divisions to the disengaged and disenfranchised. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear. "When you factor in or when you cherry pick? | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept."Not exactly, what was promised has not happened Nobody did any due diligence, the outcome of which we are seeing. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept."Lol really? What could have gone differently? It's gone pretty much as predicted | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Not exactly, what was promised has not happened
Nobody did any due diligence, the outcome of which we are seeing. "The concept was not the fairytale promises. The concept was to leave the EU and form our own trade agreements. I speak as a Brexiteer who ignored the fairytale stuff. And you're right about due diligence - Brexit has been a debacle. The bones of the exit strategy should have been determined BEFORE the referendum. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?"Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now. Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling. There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Not exactly, what was promised has not happened
Nobody did any due diligence, the outcome of which we are seeing.
The concept was not the fairytale promises. The concept was to leave the EU and form our own trade agreements. I speak as a Brexiteer who ignored the fairytale stuff. And you're right about due diligence - Brexit has been a debacle.
The bones of the exit strategy should have been determined BEFORE the referendum."But then we’d not have left, and the Brexiters would have known that. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Lol really?
What could have gone differently? It's gone pretty much as predicted
"Rightio 
Not one person would have predicted this debacle. Don't forget you had (many) people in charge who didn't want it from civil servants to ministers to PM. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Not exactly, what was promised has not happened
Nobody did any due diligence, the outcome of which we are seeing.
The concept was not the fairytale promises. The concept was to leave the EU and form our own trade agreements. I speak as a Brexiteer who ignored the fairytale stuff. And you're right about due diligence - Brexit has been a debacle.
The bones of the exit strategy should have been determined BEFORE the referendum.
But then we’d not have left, and the Brexiters would have known that."Moot point, just mere speculation. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Not exactly, what was promised has not happened
Nobody did any due diligence, the outcome of which we are seeing.
The concept was not the fairytale promises. The concept was to leave the EU and form our own trade agreements. I speak as a Brexiteer who ignored the fairytale stuff. And you're right about due diligence - Brexit has been a debacle.
The bones of the exit strategy should have been determined BEFORE the referendum.
But then we’d not have left, and the Brexiters would have known that.
Moot point, just mere speculation."The Irish border conundrum would have been enough. It was obviously always going to be unsolvable without infrastructure being placed. Now imagine the leave campaign having to put that in writing - enough to swing 700k voted the other way? I suspect so. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Not exactly, what was promised has not happened
Nobody did any due diligence, the outcome of which we are seeing.
The concept was not the fairytale promises. The concept was to leave the EU and form our own trade agreements. I speak as a Brexiteer who ignored the fairytale stuff. And you're right about due diligence - Brexit has been a debacle.
The bones of the exit strategy should have been determined BEFORE the referendum."What makes you think that as a smaller entity (the UK) we'd be able to negotiate a better deal with more leverage as a bigger entity (The EU)? However I agree that there should have been a strategy and a plan layed out before the referendum. And if the time comes there's a rejoin referendum, there should be a feasibility study done that details how it would work and what benefits it would bring. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Any regrets by Brexiteers is possibly due to the shit management of it, not the concept.
Lol really?
What could have gone differently? It's gone pretty much as predicted
Rightio
Not one person would have predicted this debacle. Don't forget you had (many) people in charge who didn't want it from civil servants to ministers to PM."I mean, economists, people who understood the EU, and countless others explained in detail the impacts of leaving the EU until they were blue on the face, it was written off as "project fear". So to claim you weren't warned is kinda silly. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure."As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind. "No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision. Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing."The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'."I’m just working from the polling data. Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been. All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing."This is all if's and but's.... The polling will go up and down and it wont in the main be influenced by trade deals we have made or are negotiating at this time. Polling will be influenced by inflation at home, crime, the cost of the euro and the incoming ETIAS. The only significant thing in the list being the visa, everything else was already a variable. As you have alluded too, polling will show significant swing towards being part of the EU again as the older generations die off. The most significant view will be had in 20 - 25 years time, when the youth who have no memory of being part of the EU share their thoughts. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit."I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET. "https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control Immigration. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
"So I was right then, you're conflating certain issues with regret. I've repeatedly said this, yet you're showing me things that don't match with your argument. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
So I was right then, you're conflating certain issues with regret.
I've repeatedly said this, yet you're showing me things that don't match with your argument. "If a leaver says ‘we were wrong to leave’ (as a percentage now do) - what are they saying? | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
So I was right then, you're conflating certain issues with regret.
I've repeatedly said this, yet you're showing me things that don't match with your argument.
If a leaver says ‘we were wrong to leave’ (as a percentage now do) - what are they saying? "I've done numerous things in my life, that with hindsight I could see as wrong. That is not the same as me regretting those decisions. You know this, as does everyone. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
So I was right then, you're conflating certain issues with regret.
I've repeatedly said this, yet you're showing me things that don't match with your argument.
If a leaver says ‘we were wrong to leave’ (as a percentage now do) - what are they saying?
I've done numerous things in my life, that with hindsight I could see as wrong. That is not the same as me regretting those decisions.
You know this, as does everyone. "I don’t think a vote that you later change your mind on is the same as something that you do, realise is wrong but treat as a learning experience moving forwards. You know this, as does everyone else. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! I have read this statement a number of times and still never really understand how it is true. Who were / are the small amount of people that designed brexit for self enrichment? " And the shouts of “prove it prove it” begin. I am not playing that game. I will give you one name Crispian Odey (although other non-Brexit stuff has impacted him subsequently) | |||
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"I suppose someone could vote leave, realise 8 years later that it was wrong, say they should have voted remain, and then go back in time and still vote leave - but that would make them a fucking oddball." You're trying to play with words. Not one poll has asked 'do you regret voting for Brexit?' You continually say people regret voting the way they did. You have absolutely no data to back up that assertion. | |||
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"I suppose someone could vote leave, realise 8 years later that it was wrong, say they should have voted remain, and then go back in time and still vote leave - but that would make them a fucking oddball. You're trying to play with words. Not one poll has asked 'do you regret voting for Brexit?' You continually say people regret voting the way they did. You have absolutely no data to back up that assertion. " Someone who votes a certain way, and then later says it was wrong (16% of leavers polled) can be reasonably assumed to regret that vote, IMO. It’s illogical to suggest otherwise. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime " And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? " Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020" Not sure that actually answers my question. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020" Although the other chap does pose a good question. Before any kind of movement to rejoin, or any talk of another referendum, there should be a proper plan of what it would mean to rejoin, I'm not certain it would automatically undo the damage done by Brexit. Basically do the opposite of what we did last time. Make a proposal for what it would actually mean, before deciding what to do. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. " Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Although the other chap does pose a good question. Before any kind of movement to rejoin, or any talk of another referendum, there should be a proper plan of what it would mean to rejoin, I'm not certain it would automatically undo the damage done by Brexit. Basically do the opposite of what we did last time. Make a proposal for what it would actually mean, before deciding what to do." We’ll never rejoin, I suspect. Though an EFTA type arrangement would be my most likely outcome, perhaps a decade or two from now. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. " Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Although the other chap does pose a good question. Before any kind of movement to rejoin, or any talk of another referendum, there should be a proper plan of what it would mean to rejoin, I'm not certain it would automatically undo the damage done by Brexit. Basically do the opposite of what we did last time. Make a proposal for what it would actually mean, before deciding what to do. We’ll never rejoin, I suspect. Though an EFTA type arrangement would be my most likely outcome, perhaps a decade or two from now." Who knows, but there should be some proper discovery work to see what the options would mean. Otherwise we're just stuck in this limbo while out leaders are still pretending it was a good idea. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying." Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? | |||
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"I suppose someone could vote leave, realise 8 years later that it was wrong, say they should have voted remain, and then go back in time and still vote leave - but that would make them a fucking oddball. You're trying to play with words. Not one poll has asked 'do you regret voting for Brexit?' You continually say people regret voting the way they did. You have absolutely no data to back up that assertion. Someone who votes a certain way, and then later says it was wrong (16% of leavers polled) can be reasonably assumed to regret that vote, IMO. It’s illogical to suggest otherwise." The great thing about opinions is everyone has one. Ready to show me the data that states people regret their decisions yet? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? " It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you." Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate?" I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago." See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? | |||
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"If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you." If life was so bad in the EU, did you move out? And did you return only since 2020? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes?" It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. " “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'."Succinct  | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. " What has "science" got to do with it? Are you immune to the effects it has had on the economy somehow? | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
"Hmmm immigration Hmmmm stop the boats Hmmmm Rwanda Hmmmm let's lower all immigration Hmmmm | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
Succinct "Why wouldn't people regret voting for this clusterfuck, unless they're still pretending it was a good idea? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. " Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation" The Cambridge work was adjusted to take all into account, apparently. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation" I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
Hmmm immigration
Hmmmm stop the boats
Hmmmm Rwanda
Hmmmm let's lower all immigration
Hmmmm "Well it was the largest single issue in the referendum , so it’s only natural that a good chunk of leave voters are gonna be mad when they realised that their vote actually reduced our ability to control our borders. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. " Care to refute the work done by Cambridge economics? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. Care to refute the work done by Cambridge economics?" Are you talking about the study commissioned by Sadiq Khan? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. Care to refute the work done by Cambridge economics? Are you talking about the study commissioned by Sadiq Khan?" It was commissions by City Hall, yes. I’m open to anyone who can prove the study wrong. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. " I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right! | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. Care to refute the work done by Cambridge economics? Are you talking about the study commissioned by Sadiq Khan? It was commissions by City Hall, yes. I’m open to anyone who can prove the study wrong. " | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right! "I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better. As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror. They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
"Most remainers are aware of how bad the remain campaign was, that’s why remain lost. It’s increasingly impossible to argue that remain weren’t right though. | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! I have read this statement a number of times and still never really understand how it is true. Who were / are the small amount of people that designed brexit for self enrichment? And the shouts of “prove it prove it” begin. I am not playing that game. I will give you one name Crispian Odey (although other non-Brexit stuff has impacted him subsequently)" Not wanting to back up your statements, unlike you?? You claim brexit delivered its outcome making a few rich people richer, can you expand on this so I can understand?... Someone making money off the result, totally understandable and expected, designing brexit for a few people to win, sounds a tad conspiracy led. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
"So you would vote differently if you could go again? " As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror. " What do you mean? We all lost. " They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time. " This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck."You lost. Get over it. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck.
You lost.
Get over it."What did you win? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck.
You lost.
Get over it."You lost too. Are you over it? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing people who discuss the impact of Brexit on the UK. It's almost as if you're desperate for people to stop pointing out that it was a shit idea to leave the EU. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck.
You lost.
Get over it.
You lost too.
Are you over it? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing people who discuss the impact of Brexit on the UK. It's almost as if you're desperate for people to stop pointing out that it was a shit idea to leave the EU. "And some of us know/believe the idea wasn't shit.  | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck.
You lost.
Get over it.
You lost too.
Are you over it? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing people who discuss the impact of Brexit on the UK. It's almost as if you're desperate for people to stop pointing out that it was a shit idea to leave the EU.
And some of us know/believe the idea wasn't shit. "Knowing and believing are two different things. You can believe anything. The moon is made of blue stilton, aliens built the pyramids, the Tories care about British people, birds don't exist, Brexit wasn't a shit idea. Brexit was a shit idea for the UK by every measure. So no one can "know" it wasn't. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck.
You lost.
Get over it.
You lost too.
Are you over it? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing people who discuss the impact of Brexit on the UK. It's almost as if you're desperate for people to stop pointing out that it was a shit idea to leave the EU.
And some of us know/believe the idea wasn't shit.
Knowing and believing are two different things. You can believe anything. The moon is made of blue stilton, aliens built the pyramids, the Tories care about British people, birds don't exist, Brexit wasn't a shit idea.
Brexit was a shit idea for the UK by every measure. So no one can "know" it wasn't. "You present your argument in such a way every time, that it dilutes your credibility. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. I thought you said you're not a billionaire? In which case you also lost. Anyway, not ever setback is down to Brexit. Just the ones that Brexit caused. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for the benefits to start rolling in. Should be any minute now right? Right!
I’m just not one of life’s victims who blames my failures on everyone else. I learn from them and try to do better.
So you would vote differently if you could go again?
As I’ve said before, if Remoaners wanted to know why they lost in 2016, they just needed to look in the mirror.
What do you mean? We all lost.
They’d have saved themselves seven years of wasted time.
This I agree with. Imagine if we hadn't wasted all this time on the Brexit clusterfuck.
You lost.
Get over it.
You lost too.
Are you over it? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing people who discuss the impact of Brexit on the UK. It's almost as if you're desperate for people to stop pointing out that it was a shit idea to leave the EU.
And some of us know/believe the idea wasn't shit.
Knowing and believing are two different things. You can believe anything. The moon is made of blue stilton, aliens built the pyramids, the Tories care about British people, birds don't exist, Brexit wasn't a shit idea.
Brexit was a shit idea for the UK by every measure. So no one can "know" it wasn't.
You present your argument in such a way every time, that it dilutes your credibility."Any comments on the topic, or just having a pop at the poster instead? | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. " Brexit has been a complete shit show for Northern Ireland. Maybe you haven't heard. No government for five out of the last seven years. The last 2 yrs as a result of a row over the protocol. Public services on their knees. We were better off fully in the EU. New government starts tomorrow. Let's hope for better times. Thanks Brexiteers for nothing | |||
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"Has Brexit been the disaster that some warned? No I don’t think it has - though there has been a sizeable negative impact. Has Brexit produced a single benefit that the leave side predicted? No it hasn’t. Not one. It’s going to be studied in history and politics classes 50 years from now as a ‘what the hell were they thinking?’ Kind of moment. It achieved precisely what it was designed to achieve...to make a small number of rich people even richer. Job done. If the same people are around down the line and they identify an opportunity to become even richer by pushing a rejoin the EU narrative they will! And the plebs, sry electorate will play along with what ever is put in front of them.
Well some definitely will, as we see by polling - a vanishingly small number of people still insist that it was absolutely the correct decision to leave the EU. A decent majority now believe it was wrong (and that polling has been consistent for a couple of years now)
Polling will go up and down and the next GE results could see it swing again!
Measuring the success or failure of brexit is complex, short term indicators may provide some insights, but a fully comprehensive assessment requires evaluating both short term and longterm economic, political, and social factors. It could take decades, considering the time it takes for economic and policy changes to fully embed and for the effects of the decision to be fully realised.
Polling can go up and down, yes - but it’s remained firmly in one direction pretty much since we left, with a brief change during the vaccine rollout, before returning to what we see now - 55-58% saying it was a mistake, and 10-15% saying it wasn’t.
And anything that takes decades before we can finally say ‘yes that was right’, or ‘no that was wrong’ was probably not a great action to take.
We've touched on this before. 48% was the 'mistake' starting position. To have increased 7-10% in 4 years isn't very impressive when you account for the amount of leave voters who are pissed off that it wasn't a clean break.
When you factor in demographics, it gets more telling - younger groups are 70% ‘it was a mistake’ - but regardless, public opinion is increasingly clear.
When you factor in or when you cherry pick?
Well in all age groups a majority polled feel that Brexit was a mistake more than those who feel it wasn’t, except for 65+, of whom 48% think it wasn’t. And again, this has been consistent for a long time now.
Now does that mean that we’re going to rejoin? No it doesn’t, and I don’t think we will. But the data is telling.
There’s more specific data on whether people feel that Brexit has helped them financially, whether it’s helped immigration, whether it’s improved the UK’s standing in the told etc - and by every metric, the polling says that it’s been a failure.
As previously stated. 'Mistake' started on 48%, so a 7-10% increase isn't any surprise. I highly doubt any remain voter has changed there mind.
No, of course remain voters are most likely to have stayed as it’s played out more or less as predicted (albeit with probably a lesser impact than the worst forecasts). However the dramatic drop in support of Brexit (which doesn’t correlate with ‘don’t know’ means than a chunk of leavers now regret their decision.
Of course this is moot because ‘was Brexit a mistake’ is not the same question as ‘should we rejoin’ - that I suspect would be a much closer run thing.
The issue you have here is conflating 'it's been a clusterfuck' with 'regret'.
I’m just working from the polling data.
Some will show regret because it’s been a gangfuck. Others will show regret because it didn’t stop all immigration overnight. Soem will show regret because their new BMW exhaust is more expensive than it would have been.
All sorts of people will have all sorts of reasons for regret - but the facts are that most people polled regret Brexit.
I'd like to see some of these polls where people express their REGRET.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs
Now this is where you have to read between the lines - we know that immigration was the most important factor in the leave vote (backed up by data). And now 53% of leave voters believe that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control
Immigration.
Hmmm immigration
Hmmmm stop the boats
Hmmmm Rwanda
Hmmmm let's lower all immigration
Hmmmm
Well it was the largest single issue in the referendum , so it’s only natural that a good chunk of leave voters are gonna be mad when they realised that their vote actually reduced our ability to control our borders."In what way has Brexit reduced the UKs ability to control its borders? | |||
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"On the four-year anniversary of Brexit last Wednesday, business and trade secretary Kemi Badenoch trumpeted its successes. “The British people’s conviction that the UK would excel as masters of our own fate has paid dividends,” she said, launching a report detailing the benefits. Among the top achievements listed were booming sales of honey to Saudi Arabia, surging pet food exports to India, a rush of UK pork, worth £18m over five years, heading into Mexico’s restaurants and homes, and UK beauty products sales leaping in China, thanks to barriers being smashed." Apart from my work life improving I have not seen any noticeable difference between before and after that would not have happened regardless of membership | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. " https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions | |||
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"Whenever I hear someone say that Brexit has been “a disaster” I know they either: 1. are economically illiterate Or 2. are a Remoaner ideologue who is completely incapable of reconciling themselves psychologically to reality so cannot deal with the facts. The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. This isn’t really a “disaster”. A disaster would be nuclear winter, or half the population being wiped out by a tsunami. The better question to ask would be why the Uk and Europe as a whole continue to suffer from economic stagnation with little prospect of that changing, whether any particular countries are within the EU or outside it." Ah the classic Baldrick defence, "deny everything "! | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions" OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%." You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy." So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert?" I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it)" So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly?" I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist. | |||
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"Whenever I hear someone say that Brexit has been “a disaster” I know they either: 1. are economically illiterate Or 2. are a Remoaner ideologue who is completely incapable of reconciling themselves psychologically to reality so cannot deal with the facts. The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. This isn’t really a “disaster”. A disaster would be nuclear winter, or half the population being wiped out by a tsunami. The better question to ask would be why the Uk and Europe as a whole continue to suffer from economic stagnation with little prospect of that changing, whether any particular countries are within the EU or outside it." The original post is extolling the benefits of Brexit and is quoting the government - how has this morphed into a thread comparing the EU economically against the UK? Is not each country in the EU sovereign (as is and was the UK)? Why compare apples and pears? Does your latest post not mimic an earlier thread started by...yourself? Why not stick to that thread rather than hijack another? Brexit is a great success. Everyone can see that. Why defend it and call people names (remoaners)? Beekeepers are happy according to the government. | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist." Your position is interesting I think and one that confirms some theories I have about Remoaners, that they actually have very little understanding of the current state and future trajectory of the world economy. There is a massive over estimation of the importance of the EU now, and certainly in terms of where the world is headed. Of course we can attach ourselves to the sinking EU ship and take comfort in the fact that we are all sinking together. Alternatively we can get on the lifeboat, and we might still sink or we might float happily away with the other big ships. There is actually no absolutely guaranteed correct answer to either of these options. It depends on whether you take a “Little European” world view or a more globalist and adventurous one. | |||
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"Whenever I hear someone say that Brexit has been “a disaster” I know they either: 1. are economically illiterate Or 2. are a Remoaner ideologue who is completely incapable of reconciling themselves psychologically to reality so cannot deal with the facts. The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. This isn’t really a “disaster”. A disaster would be nuclear winter, or half the population being wiped out by a tsunami. The better question to ask would be why the Uk and Europe as a whole continue to suffer from economic stagnation with little prospect of that changing, whether any particular countries are within the EU or outside it. The original post is extolling the benefits of Brexit and is quoting the government - how has this morphed into a thread comparing the EU economically against the UK? Is not each country in the EU sovereign (as is and was the UK)? Why compare apples and pears? Does your latest post not mimic an earlier thread started by...yourself? Why not stick to that thread rather than hijack another? Brexit is a great success. Everyone can see that. Why defend it and call people names (remoaners)? Beekeepers are happy according to the government." Are you here to extol the virtues of the French pension system again? How many anti Brexit threads do you have running at the moment? | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist. Your position is interesting I think and one that confirms some theories I have about Remoaners, that they actually have very little understanding of the current state and future trajectory of the world economy. There is a massive over estimation of the importance of the EU now, and certainly in terms of where the world is headed. Of course we can attach ourselves to the sinking EU ship and take comfort in the fact that we are all sinking together. Alternatively we can get on the lifeboat, and we might still sink or we might float happily away with the other big ships. There is actually no absolutely guaranteed correct answer to either of these options. It depends on whether you take a “Little European” world view or a more globalist and adventurous one." I’m all for global trade, communication and relationships, but I also have an understanding of our relative power in the world. Yes we should be trading with the east, but if we want to get a good deal that doesn’t take advantage of us as a nation, we’ll be better placed to gain that deal as part of the second largest trading bloc in the world. And I may well be a ‘little European’ but remember that immigration was the biggest single issue during the referendum - it was won because people wanted less integration with other nations. | |||
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"Whenever I hear someone say that Brexit has been “a disaster” I know they either: 1. are economically illiterate Or 2. are a Remoaner ideologue who is completely incapable of reconciling themselves psychologically to reality so cannot deal with the facts. The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. This isn’t really a “disaster”. A disaster would be nuclear winter, or half the population being wiped out by a tsunami. The better question to ask would be why the Uk and Europe as a whole continue to suffer from economic stagnation with little prospect of that changing, whether any particular countries are within the EU or outside it. The original post is extolling the benefits of Brexit and is quoting the government - how has this morphed into a thread comparing the EU economically against the UK? Is not each country in the EU sovereign (as is and was the UK)? Why compare apples and pears? Does your latest post not mimic an earlier thread started by...yourself? Why not stick to that thread rather than hijack another? Brexit is a great success. Everyone can see that. Why defend it and call people names (remoaners)? Beekeepers are happy according to the government. Are you here to extol the virtues of the French pension system again? How many anti Brexit threads do you have running at the moment? " To be fair Rog you are the other side of the coin | |||
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"Whenever I hear someone say that Brexit has been “a disaster” I know they either: 1. are economically illiterate Or 2. are a Remoaner ideologue who is completely incapable of reconciling themselves psychologically to reality so cannot deal with the facts. The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. This isn’t really a “disaster”. A disaster would be nuclear winter, or half the population being wiped out by a tsunami. The better question to ask would be why the Uk and Europe as a whole continue to suffer from economic stagnation with little prospect of that changing, whether any particular countries are within the EU or outside it. The original post is extolling the benefits of Brexit and is quoting the government - how has this morphed into a thread comparing the EU economically against the UK? Is not each country in the EU sovereign (as is and was the UK)? Why compare apples and pears? Does your latest post not mimic an earlier thread started by...yourself? Why not stick to that thread rather than hijack another? Brexit is a great success. Everyone can see that. Why defend it and call people names (remoaners)? Beekeepers are happy according to the government. Are you here to extol the virtues of the French pension system again? How many anti Brexit threads do you have running at the moment? " Hello Roger - nice to meet you too. You seem like a nice chap. If you look at the threads I have posted, they are fact based If you want to comment on the post regarding British pensions then do so. This post is about the success of Brexit according to the government. Where is the anti-brexit sentiment there? Have a nice day. | |||
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"I honestly believe the headlines will be the same in another 2 years. Brexit will never be marked a success and within 15years we will have joined the EU again, assuming that WW3 hasn’t broken out in the meantime And the purpose of rejoining the EU will be what? So we can enjoy the same stellar rates of growth and political stability that the EU is enjoying? Probably so we can have access to the same markets as part of the second large trade bloc in the world, and taking part in Euratom, Erasmus, full participation in Horizon Europe etc Not to mention regaining lost citizens rights that we had until 2020 Not sure that actually answers my question. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it wasn’t answered. Usual faux condescending response from Remoaner snobs. You lost, get over it. Seven years on and you are still crying. Not crying at all. Still just waiting for the sunlit uplands we were promised. Are you ready to admit it’s failed, yet? It hasn’t failed at all. The EU is an absolute shit show. If you think your life would be better there, move! Nobody is stopping you. Sadly Brexit stopped the freedom of movement within the EU. Yet another downside. But is that really what brexiteers want, put up with Brexit and shut up, or emigrate? I really don’t understand why you are staying. Everything is shit. Brexit is a disaster. If I thought like you I’d have left a long time ago. See above. Brexit ended the freedom of movement within the EU for British passport holders. Not sure why you'd want people who voted against the Brexit clusterfuck to leave. What's left then, people who don't question anything, who vote as instructed to, make themselves poorer so a few billionaires can made some cash and avoid paying taxes? It hasn’t made me poorer and I’m not a billionaire. I don’t know who instructed Leave voters to vote in a particular way given that every institution, celebrity, third sector group and international and the vast majority of national politicians said we should vote Remain. You are the one who is always saying we should “follow the science” like some low IQ automaton incapable of independent thought. “The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, while the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off last year as a result of Brexit, the report reveals.” - Per Cambridge Economics. Does that mean everyone is poorer? No. I’ve had a pay rise and I’m probably batting even with where I was in 2020, but that’s not the norm. Not that I'll read the research but I'd like to know what portion of any financial crippling is apportioned to a. Brexit, b. COVID, c. Ukraine, D. cost of living crisis/inflation I imagine there is a very small proportion of the population who are totally incapable for some psychological reason of being reconciled to their defeat in 2016, who put absolutely every minor setback down to Brexit. Care to refute the work done by Cambridge economics? Are you talking about the study commissioned by Sadiq Khan? It was commissions by City Hall, yes. I’m open to anyone who can prove the study wrong. " You forgot to add the footnote. | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist. Your position is interesting I think and one that confirms some theories I have about Remoaners, that they actually have very little understanding of the current state and future trajectory of the world economy. There is a massive over estimation of the importance of the EU now, and certainly in terms of where the world is headed. Of course we can attach ourselves to the sinking EU ship and take comfort in the fact that we are all sinking together. Alternatively we can get on the lifeboat, and we might still sink or we might float happily away with the other big ships. There is actually no absolutely guaranteed correct answer to either of these options. It depends on whether you take a “Little European” world view or a more globalist and adventurous one. I’m all for global trade, communication and relationships, but I also have an understanding of our relative power in the world. Yes we should be trading with the east, but if we want to get a good deal that doesn’t take advantage of us as a nation, we’ll be better placed to gain that deal as part of the second largest trading bloc in the world. And I may well be a ‘little European’ but remember that immigration was the biggest single issue during the referendum - it was won because people wanted less integration with other nations." Less? Or controlled? | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist. Your position is interesting I think and one that confirms some theories I have about Remoaners, that they actually have very little understanding of the current state and future trajectory of the world economy. There is a massive over estimation of the importance of the EU now, and certainly in terms of where the world is headed. Of course we can attach ourselves to the sinking EU ship and take comfort in the fact that we are all sinking together. Alternatively we can get on the lifeboat, and we might still sink or we might float happily away with the other big ships. There is actually no absolutely guaranteed correct answer to either of these options. It depends on whether you take a “Little European” world view or a more globalist and adventurous one. I’m all for global trade, communication and relationships, but I also have an understanding of our relative power in the world. Yes we should be trading with the east, but if we want to get a good deal that doesn’t take advantage of us as a nation, we’ll be better placed to gain that deal as part of the second largest trading bloc in the world. And I may well be a ‘little European’ but remember that immigration was the biggest single issue during the referendum - it was won because people wanted less integration with other nations. Less? Or controlled?" I think he wanted to say: it was won because people wanted less people form different nations integrated into their towns after entering the country illegally. Ignoring it or twisting words doesn't change what people wanted. | |||
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" Among the top achievements listed were booming sales of honey to Saudi Arabia I have just been reading an article about the head of the British beekeepers association. He says he knows of no members selling much honey to Saudi. He says Brexit has had a negative impact on beekeeping as Queen bees have to be imported from Southern Europe, which is now subject to red tape and expense. " They can try to sweet talk us and use all the buzz words they want, but if anyone needed evidence that leaving the EU had a sting in its tail, this has to bee it. | |||
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"Meanwhile British Beekeepers have never had it so good..." They must be buzzing. Out of some morbid interest, do you have an idea of business areas that are still struggling after nearly 8 years of adjustments? | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist. Your position is interesting I think and one that confirms some theories I have about Remoaners, that they actually have very little understanding of the current state and future trajectory of the world economy. There is a massive over estimation of the importance of the EU now, and certainly in terms of where the world is headed. Of course we can attach ourselves to the sinking EU ship and take comfort in the fact that we are all sinking together. Alternatively we can get on the lifeboat, and we might still sink or we might float happily away with the other big ships. There is actually no absolutely guaranteed correct answer to either of these options. It depends on whether you take a “Little European” world view or a more globalist and adventurous one. I’m all for global trade, communication and relationships, but I also have an understanding of our relative power in the world. Yes we should be trading with the east, but if we want to get a good deal that doesn’t take advantage of us as a nation, we’ll be better placed to gain that deal as part of the second largest trading bloc in the world. And I may well be a ‘little European’ but remember that immigration was the biggest single issue during the referendum - it was won because people wanted less integration with other nations. Less? Or controlled? I think he wanted to say: it was won because people wanted less people form different nations integrated into their towns after entering the country illegally. Ignoring it or twisting words doesn't change what people wanted. " People wanted less immigration. That was a key factor in the referendum - Dom Cummings knew that (hence the vote leave campaign about Turkey joining the EU). It didn’t matter that most of our immigration was non-EU and as such was always manageable. | |||
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"Meanwhile British Beekeepers have never had it so good... They must be buzzing. Out of some morbid interest, do you have an idea of business areas that are still struggling after nearly 8 years of adjustments? " Fishing. Farming. | |||
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"Meanwhile British Beekeepers have never had it so good... They must be buzzing. Out of some morbid interest, do you have an idea of business areas that are still struggling after nearly 8 years of adjustments? Fishing. Farming. " They are the usual suspects, always struggling and I wouldn't expect it to be different post brexit. Are there any other areas? | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%. You know how it’s easier for small economies to produce large growth rates? That’s just how percentages work. Small growth in a large economy can be (and frequently is) greater than large growth in a small economy. So ranking the economies I mentioned by size: China 2 India 5 Both bigger than the UK. Indonesia 16 Saudi Arabia 19 All bigger than the vast majority of EU countries. Are you sure you are an economics expert? I’ve not claimed to be an economics expert, not once. (I can tell you’re not one either, because you apparently claim Brexit to be a success based upon present growth rates rather than taking into account the damage done since 2016, and the long term predictions that stem from it) So are you saying the OECD forecasts are wrong? Would the UK have been experiencing a world beating 7% growth if we were still in the EU, even if similar countries still in the EU are bumbling around at sub 1%? How does that work exactly? I’m not saying anything is wrong. I’m intrigued as to why you haven’t engaged with the link I sent, since you’re an esteemed economist. Your position is interesting I think and one that confirms some theories I have about Remoaners, that they actually have very little understanding of the current state and future trajectory of the world economy. There is a massive over estimation of the importance of the EU now, and certainly in terms of where the world is headed. Of course we can attach ourselves to the sinking EU ship and take comfort in the fact that we are all sinking together. Alternatively we can get on the lifeboat, and we might still sink or we might float happily away with the other big ships. There is actually no absolutely guaranteed correct answer to either of these options. It depends on whether you take a “Little European” world view or a more globalist and adventurous one. I’m all for global trade, communication and relationships, but I also have an understanding of our relative power in the world. Yes we should be trading with the east, but if we want to get a good deal that doesn’t take advantage of us as a nation, we’ll be better placed to gain that deal as part of the second largest trading bloc in the world. And I may well be a ‘little European’ but remember that immigration was the biggest single issue during the referendum - it was won because people wanted less integration with other nations. Less? Or controlled? I think he wanted to say: it was won because people wanted less people form different nations integrated into their towns after entering the country illegally. Ignoring it or twisting words doesn't change what people wanted. People wanted less immigration. That was a key factor in the referendum - Dom Cummings knew that (hence the vote leave campaign about Turkey joining the EU). It didn’t matter that most of our immigration was non-EU and as such was always manageable." They wanted less illegal entries, controlled immigration is a different thing all together. | |||
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"Meanwhile British Beekeepers have never had it so good... They must be buzzing. Out of some morbid interest, do you have an idea of business areas that are still struggling after nearly 8 years of adjustments? Fishing. Farming. They are the usual suspects, always struggling and I wouldn't expect it to be different post brexit. Are there any other areas?" They were areas we were told Brexit would benefit hugely (fishing particularly) | |||
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" The real world data indicates that the UK economy is doing slightly better than the EU average, worse than some individual countries, better than others, including better than Germany for quite a long time. https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions OECD growth forecasts: 2024: OECD average 1.4% US 1.5 % Russia 1.1% France 0.8% UK 0.7% Italy 0.7% Germany 0.6% 2025: OECD average 1.8% US 1.7% Russia 1 % France 1.2% UK 1.2% Italy 1.2% Germany 1.2% Brexit is “a disaster”! My guess is the US will be much higher than this, and the low growth for Russia is probably wishful thinking. And of course it is all quite insignificant compared to India 6.1%, Indonesia 5.2%, China 4.7%, Saudi Arabia 3%." Not seen those figures before but they do appear to show the UK doing OK in European terms at least. Sometimes reports pick and choose time lines to suit. For instance, UK exports to the EU have increased by 39% since the referendum. UK exports to non EU countries have increased by 57% since the referendum. Both are factually accurate according to ONS data but I suspect the time line is carefully chosen. | |||
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"Meanwhile British Beekeepers have never had it so good... They must be buzzing. Out of some morbid interest, do you have an idea of business areas that are still struggling after nearly 8 years of adjustments? Fishing. Farming. They are the usual suspects, always struggling and I wouldn't expect it to be different post brexit. Are there any other areas? They were areas we were told Brexit would benefit hugely (fishing particularly)" I remember that, it went south as soon as our fishermen started fishing for shellfish earlier than the French, if I recall… | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists." How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. Oh, You missed a main player, Cummings was a leader behind Brexit. | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision." I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? " Oh, You missed a main player, Cummings was a leader behind Brexit. " | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? " It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? " You missed, I'd like to teach the world to sing,, in perfect harmony. | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? " Remoaner Greatest Hits Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? Remoaner Greatest Hits Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster " Tbf I was expecting a pretty poor response, but somehow you’ve even fallen short of ‘poor’ | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? Remoaner Greatest Hits Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Tbf I was expecting a pretty poor response, but somehow you’ve even fallen short of ‘poor’ "Just reading that UK PMI up again in January with output growth accelerating at fastest pace for 8 months. Meanwhile in France service businesses are experiencing their longest downturn for a decade. And Germany services sector PMI at five month low. But but but Brexit is a disaster…. | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? Remoaner Greatest Hits Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Tbf I was expecting a pretty poor response, but somehow you’ve even fallen short of ‘poor’
Just reading that UK PMI up again in January with output growth accelerating at fastest pace for 8 months.
Meanwhile in France service businesses are experiencing their longest downturn for a decade. And Germany services sector PMI at five month low.
But but but Brexit is a disaster….
"I recall asking you about the article I linked to. I don’t recall a response though. I’m sure I must have missed it, there’s no way you’d fail to engage on a topic like Brexit. | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? Remoaner Greatest Hits Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Tbf I was expecting a pretty poor response, but somehow you’ve even fallen short of ‘poor’
Just reading that UK PMI up again in January with output growth accelerating at fastest pace for 8 months.
Meanwhile in France service businesses are experiencing their longest downturn for a decade. And Germany services sector PMI at five month low.
But but but Brexit is a disaster….
"Lol. It's hard to tell if you're for real or if you're ripping the piss out of people who think Brexit is a good idea. | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? Oh, You missed a main player, Cummings was a leader behind Brexit. " You do remember I have told you I voted remain? I expect you will jump to the, "I don't keep track of random peoples opinions on swingers site".. I was angry for a short while and then moved on to the as it is, going to be. Try it out, it might help | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? Oh, You missed a main player, Cummings was a leader behind Brexit. You do remember I have told you I voted remain? I expect you will jump to the, "I don't keep track of random peoples opinions on swingers site".. I was angry for a short while and then moved on to the as it is, going to be. Try it out, it might help "So what is it that you are saying people haven't accepted? | |||
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"Biggest example of any nation committing economic suicide since lemmings discovered cliffs. The likes of Johnson, Farage and Rees-Smug are economic terrorists. How bad has it become, I’ve not heard anyone saying we are doomed, post Brexit except those who can’t accept a referendum decision. I see you saying this a lot. Can I ask for clarification, what don't you think people have accepted. The result of the vote? That it was a good idea to vote leave? Something else? It’s the Brexit Greatest Hits: You lost, get over it. You don’t like democracy. You can’t accept the result. Remoaners. Why don’t you move to the EU if it’s so great? Remoaner Greatest Hits Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Brexit is a disaster Tbf I was expecting a pretty poor response, but somehow you’ve even fallen short of ‘poor’
Just reading that UK PMI up again in January with output growth accelerating at fastest pace for 8 months.
Meanwhile in France service businesses are experiencing their longest downturn for a decade. And Germany services sector PMI at five month low.
But but but Brexit is a disaster….
"The economic forecasts you quote are just that; forecasts. Nothing to brag about when UK is marginally doing better than other economies. No major trade deals on the horizon either. The ones in place are poor and the brexiteers promised do much. The UK really does referendums badly. | |||
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