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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? " No ‘Europe ‘ isn’t finished  | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? " No. It’s not. Good to know that Biden is doing good things across the pond, though. | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? No. It’s not. Good to know that Biden is doing good things across the pond, though. " Are you saying that the EU isn’t doing good things? | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? No. It’s not. Good to know that Biden is doing good things across the pond, though. Are you saying that the EU isn’t doing good things?" They are doing good things, the USA are doing better | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? No. It’s not. Good to know that Biden is doing good things across the pond, though. Are you saying that the EU isn’t doing good things?" The EU is fine. Individual economies are performing differently, as you’d expect from a bloc of independent nations. | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? No. It’s not. Good to know that Biden is doing good things across the pond, though. Are you saying that the EU isn’t doing good things? The EU is fine. Individual economies are performing differently, as you’d expect from a bloc of independent nations." As a bloc it is performing as well or better than the UK, so the question is, is the UK finished? | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? " Oh dear .. | |||
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"I think the EU would collapse should one of the member countries find itself under attack of war. The house of cards would tumble." Most of EU are NATO countries. I think it would have the opposite effect. | |||
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" Good to know that Biden is doing good things across the pond, though. " Maybe the US public are being more productive, spurred on by the prospect of Trump getting back in and leading the country onwards to yet further prosperity? (I'm not a supporter, just playing devil's advocate) | |||
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"We need to get past seeing the world merely in terms of GDP and economic growth. It only covers things in a purely economic sense when human societies have existed and flourished long before this became the normal way to describe a society's success. Even Simon Kuznets (the guy behind the modern view of what GDP is) warned against it's use as a measure of societal success as it only covers a narrow band. The USA may have an apparently great economy, but quality of life for much of its populace is far under the populations of many countries that have much lower GDP or average wages." I’m sure that’s the path we are encouraged to go down when we have failing economic and political systems like in Europe. Oh well you may be poor but at least you are happy. Here’s a new index which shows how happy you are. | |||
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"Why are people so desperate for the EU to be in trouble? I mean if Brexit is going so well and we’re all enjoying the sunlit uplands, why are people even thinking about the EU. Unless…" It makes no sense to want your largest trading partner to fail. | |||
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"Why are people so desperate for the EU to be in trouble? I mean if Brexit is going so well and we’re all enjoying the sunlit uplands, why are people even thinking about the EU. Unless… It makes no sense to want your largest trading partner to fail. " If you have an alternative set of data to cite to indicate that the European situation is not as bad as I think, please share them with the forum. Otherwise it just looks like another load of pie in the sky wishful thinking alongside UBI and the immigration system improving under Labour. | |||
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"Why are people so desperate for the EU to be in trouble? I mean if Brexit is going so well and we’re all enjoying the sunlit uplands, why are people even thinking about the EU. Unless… It makes no sense to want your largest trading partner to fail. If you have an alternative set of data to cite to indicate that the European situation is not as bad as I think, please share them with the forum. Otherwise it just looks like another load of pie in the sky wishful thinking alongside UBI and the immigration system improving under Labour." I asked you which specific EU nations you were discussing when you said that the bloc is failing. Some nations are performing very well. Others not so. As is always the case with any bloc of sovereign, independent nations. | |||
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"Why are people so desperate for the EU to be in trouble? I mean if Brexit is going so well and we’re all enjoying the sunlit uplands, why are people even thinking about the EU. Unless… It makes no sense to want your largest trading partner to fail. " It's brexit logic. They're desperate for a "win", some kind of upside to leaving the EU. No matter how tenuous. | |||
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"Why are people so desperate for the EU to be in trouble? I mean if Brexit is going so well and we’re all enjoying the sunlit uplands, why are people even thinking about the EU. Unless… It makes no sense to want your largest trading partner to fail. If you have an alternative set of data to cite to indicate that the European situation is not as bad as I think, please share them with the forum. Otherwise it just looks like another load of pie in the sky wishful thinking alongside UBI and the immigration system improving under Labour." Are you Rishi Sunak? Because you are answering a totally different question to the one that was asked. | |||
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"Why are people so desperate for the EU to be in trouble? I mean if Brexit is going so well and we’re all enjoying the sunlit uplands, why are people even thinking about the EU. Unless… It makes no sense to want your largest trading partner to fail. It's brexit logic. They're desperate for a "win", some kind of upside to leaving the EU. No matter how tenuous." What the average Brexit voter fails to understand is that the UK leaving had a negative impact on the rest of the EU aswell, however , the biggest losers are the UK | |||
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"So in the last quarter of 2023 the US economy grew by 3.3%. Meanwhile the eurozone’s economy was stagnant and Germany’s economy shrank. Despite unprecedented immigration, Europe’s population is still forecast to fall dramatically by the end of the century. A future of cultural dislocation, poverty and conflict beckons. Political strife across the continent is on the rise, with farmer protests and the electorate turning to extremist political parties. Meanwhile an investigation by Le Monde uncovered that almost a quarter of EU MEP’s have been involved in scandals or illegality. Why is the situation in Europe so bleak? Why does the EU economy persistently underperform the US over the long term? " I guess they are more exposed to the Russian, Ukraine situation than the U.S but not sure that accounts for such a big difference. The farmers seem to be pretty upset with the increase in bureaucracy amongst other things like rising costs. I do agree that a failing Europe is not good news for non EU countries. | |||
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"There are multiple reasons why EU as an economic zone has been going downhill and I don't see how it will change. So they may as well be finished in a few decades. Regulations - Too many lame regulations have made it more expensive to start a business in EU. Companies which start in US/Asia and expand to EU have a big advantage over companies starting in EU. Ageing population - This is something that affects other countries too. But EU is getting there faster. Cultural issues - Culturally, I see a distinct lack of ambition or love of entrepreneurship among people in Europe. Also, the governments have made people too reliant on the state for everything. While it has been giving a false sense of security the people so far, it won't work in the longer run and the system has already started breaking down. UK too suffers from all the above issues. But at least, we can fix the problems with regulations as we are out of EU." What your post seems to be indicating is that we need to put money over people, I mean it’s definitely a take. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not." No, but like Brexit if they just believe hard enough… | |||
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"There are multiple reasons why EU as an economic zone has been going downhill and I don't see how it will change. So they may as well be finished in a few decades. Regulations - Too many lame regulations have made it more expensive to start a business in EU. Companies which start in US/Asia and expand to EU have a big advantage over companies starting in EU. Ageing population - This is something that affects other countries too. But EU is getting there faster. Cultural issues - Culturally, I see a distinct lack of ambition or love of entrepreneurship among people in Europe. Also, the governments have made people too reliant on the state for everything. While it has been giving a false sense of security the people so far, it won't work in the longer run and the system has already started breaking down. UK too suffers from all the above issues. But at least, we can fix the problems with regulations as we are out of EU. What your post seems to be indicating is that we need to put money over people, I mean it’s definitely a take." Another problem with many people on here is that they think making money and looking after people are mutually exclusive. This is how money works - If you provide something(goods or services) to the society that the society really wants, you get money. How much money you make depends on how much the society really wants it. So if you are making more money, you have actually provided something that the society wanted, which in my opinion is a good thing. Take the case of electric cars. American and Chinese car companies have made lot of progress both in quality of the cars and reducing the price of the cars while European car companies are still limping towards it. Do you think Tesla and Chinese car companies making more money because they are more ambitious and pulled back less by their government regulations is a bad thing for the society? Same with tech boom and AI. European politicians have successfully brainwashed people into believing that they are benevolent and look after the people well. In reality, they do this because they are just power hungry and use this as a way to gain more power over people. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not." The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed "Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too."That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
"But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long."They will, if I was you I would be more worried at the appalling state of the UK economy | |||
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"There are multiple reasons why EU as an economic zone has been going downhill and I don't see how it will change. So they may as well be finished in a few decades. Regulations - Too many lame regulations have made it more expensive to start a business in EU. Companies which start in US/Asia and expand to EU have a big advantage over companies starting in EU. Ageing population - This is something that affects other countries too. But EU is getting there faster. Cultural issues - Culturally, I see a distinct lack of ambition or love of entrepreneurship among people in Europe. Also, the governments have made people too reliant on the state for everything. While it has been giving a false sense of security the people so far, it won't work in the longer run and the system has already started breaking down. UK too suffers from all the above issues. But at least, we can fix the problems with regulations as we are out of EU. What your post seems to be indicating is that we need to put money over people, I mean it’s definitely a take. Another problem with many people on here is that they think making money and looking after people are mutually exclusive. This is how money works - If you provide something(goods or services) to the society that the society really wants, you get money. How much money you make depends on how much the society really wants it. So if you are making more money, you have actually provided something that the society wanted, which in my opinion is a good thing. Take the case of electric cars. American and Chinese car companies have made lot of progress both in quality of the cars and reducing the price of the cars while European car companies are still limping towards it. Do you think Tesla and Chinese car companies making more money because they are more ambitious and pulled back less by their government regulations is a bad thing for the society? Same with tech boom and AI. European politicians have successfully brainwashed people into believing that they are benevolent and look after the people well. In reality, they do this because they are just power hungry and use this as a way to gain more power over people. " If you think that corporations are going to do anything other than try to increase shareholder value then I’m afraid you are going to be very disappointed. Capitalists seem to believe that exponential growth in a world of finite resources is possible, they are incorrect, but that does not stop them behaving as if they are right. Unchecked capitalism is the route to even higher levels of inequality and environmental disaster. In the whole tech bro mantra of “move fast and break things” the things are, more often than not, people. There’s a reason that capitalists encourage authoritarian leaders, they allow them the space to trample on the rights of the poor. There is a place for capitalism but it has to be kept in check by regulations, that way we can ensure that we can ensure people are put first. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
They will, if I was you I would be more worried at the appalling state of the UK economy "Every economy has been fucked because of Covid and war. US economy has been recovering faster as always. EU is much slower in recovery as always. UK right now is recovering slightly better than EU. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
They will, if I was you I would be more worried at the appalling state of the UK economy
Every economy has been fucked because of Covid and war. US economy has been recovering faster as always. EU is much slower in recovery as always. UK right now is recovering slightly better than EU. "Ah, so is the UK finished? | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long."Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything. | |||
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" If you think that corporations are going to do anything other than try to increase shareholder value then I’m afraid you are going to be very disappointed. Capitalists seem to believe that exponential growth in a world of finite resources is possible, they are incorrect, but that does not stop them behaving as if they are right. Unchecked capitalism is the route to even higher levels of inequality and environmental disaster. In the whole tech bro mantra of “move fast and break things” the things are, more often than not, people. There’s a reason that capitalists encourage authoritarian leaders, they allow them the space to trample on the rights of the poor. There is a place for capitalism but it has to be kept in check by regulations, that way we can ensure that we can ensure people are put first." How exactly do you increase shareholder value? By selling more goods and being competitive, which again boils down to people receiving better service. Now I am not saying regulations should not exist. They are necessary. But there are good regulations and there are bad regulations. EU is notorious for making bad regulations that kills innovation and growth. I am not in favour of unchecked capitalism. But EU makes some insanely stupid regulations in the name of checking capitalism. You make so many emotional statements without backing them with facts. There is a reason why the EU was not able to catch up in IT sector. There is a reason why their automobile industry will slowly lose value. There is a reason why they will lose out on AI competition too. But hey! At least you get to see those beautiful cookie consent popup that shows up on every website. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything."That depends on which EU country you are looking at, in terms of life expectancy. Is inequality a good measure of anything? I’m sure there is less inequality in Romania than the US, in the sense that people are more equally poor. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything."European countries had better life expectancy because they were prosperous in the post imperial world and there was a highly productive population. This is the false sense of security I was talking about. Now that the those advantages are waning, you are beginning to see the downfall. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything.
European countries had better life expectancy because they were prosperous in the post imperial world and there was a highly productive population. This is the false sense of security I was talking about. Now that the those advantages are waning, you are beginning to see the downfall."Let’s be honest,now matter how much you hope it to be true, Europe isn’t ‘finished’ | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything.
That depends on which EU country you are looking at, in terms of life expectancy.
Is inequality a good measure of anything? I’m sure there is less inequality in Romania than the US, in the sense that people are more equally poor."Exactly! Would you rather live in a society where there is inequality but poor people still make a decent living or a society where there is equality but most people are poor? Another big issue with the measurements of inequality is that most people who are in the lower end of income distribution are people who just graduated, which makes sense because they are just getting their first job. In the US which seems to be the punch bag for economic inequality, 73% of people reach top 20% at some point in their life. So it's not like a set of people who are always poor. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too." Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? " How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? " You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green." You obviously care, you went to the the trouble of starting this thread | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. " You can quote as many Tufton Street stats as you like, Europe isn’t finished | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. You can quote as many Tufton Street stats as you like, Europe isn’t finished "I have seen bots making better comments than this. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. You can quote as many Tufton Street stats as you like, Europe isn’t finished
I have seen bots making better comments than this."Ironic ? | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green. You obviously care, you went to the the trouble of starting this thread "I posted some basic facts and invited commentary as to why this is. Some people have constructively engaged. Some people have just responded with the usual deranged “Brexshit is a disaster” which is off topic anyway, and suggests that they cannot engage with reality, despite being the clever ones. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green. You obviously care, you went to the the trouble of starting this thread
I posted some basic facts and invited commentary as to why this is.
Some people have constructively engaged.
Some people have just responded with the usual deranged “Brexshit is a disaster” which is off topic anyway, and suggests that they cannot engage with reality, despite being the clever ones."Brexshit is a disaster and Europe isn’t finished, that answers the OP | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green. You obviously care, you went to the the trouble of starting this thread
I posted some basic facts and invited commentary as to why this is.
Some people have constructively engaged.
Some people have just responded with the usual deranged “Brexshit is a disaster” which is off topic anyway, and suggests that they cannot engage with reality, despite being the clever ones.
Brexshit is a disaster and Europe isn’t finished, that answers the OP "If I give my dog a treat it wags its tail and looks happy. I don’t mistake it for intelligence. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. " This seems to have come from a site called "knowledge 4 policy" and they have the word "might" with no references or data or suggest why they might be predicting this. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything.
That depends on which EU country you are looking at, in terms of life expectancy.
Is inequality a good measure of anything? I’m sure there is less inequality in Romania than the US, in the sense that people are more equally poor.
Exactly! Would you rather live in a society where there is inequality but poor people still make a decent living or a society where there is equality but most people are poor?
Another big issue with the measurements of inequality is that most people who are in the lower end of income distribution are people who just graduated, which makes sense because they are just getting their first job. In the US which seems to be the punch bag for economic inequality, 73% of people reach top 20% at some point in their life. So it's not like a set of people who are always poor."Do you have anything to back up that assertion that most people at the lower end of the financial scale are recent graduates? I know when I graduated I didn’t have a great wage but it was way above minimum wage, which is the level at least 1.6 million people are on in the UK. Also, you can’t make comparisons between the EU and the US, then say you have to compare individual EU countries. That’s not how it works. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green. You obviously care, you went to the the trouble of starting this thread
I posted some basic facts and invited commentary as to why this is.
Some people have constructively engaged.
Some people have just responded with the usual deranged “Brexshit is a disaster” which is off topic anyway, and suggests that they cannot engage with reality, despite being the clever ones.
Brexshit is a disaster and Europe isn’t finished, that answers the OP
If I give my dog a treat it wags its tail and looks happy. I don’t mistake it for intelligence."For someone whose reflex reaction whenever Europe is mentioned is negative, that’s pretty ironic. Was your dad called Pavlov? | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. This seems to have come from a site called "knowledge 4 policy" and they have the word "might" with no references or data or suggest why they might be predicting this." 55 Tufton Street? | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything.
That depends on which EU country you are looking at, in terms of life expectancy.
Is inequality a good measure of anything? I’m sure there is less inequality in Romania than the US, in the sense that people are more equally poor.
Exactly! Would you rather live in a society where there is inequality but poor people still make a decent living or a society where there is equality but most people are poor?
Another big issue with the measurements of inequality is that most people who are in the lower end of income distribution are people who just graduated, which makes sense because they are just getting their first job. In the US which seems to be the punch bag for economic inequality, 73% of people reach top 20% at some point in their life. So it's not like a set of people who are always poor.
Do you have anything to back up that assertion that most people at the lower end of the financial scale are recent graduates? I know when I graduated I didn’t have a great wage but it was way above minimum wage, which is the level at least 1.6 million people are on in the UK.
Also, you can’t make comparisons between the EU and the US, then say you have to compare individual EU countries. That’s not how it works."You can search for the article titled "Some Amazing Findings on Income Mobility in the US Including This: The Image of a Static 1 and 99 Percent Is False" Economists mostly explain this by saying that the people in bottom 20% are mostly people in early stages of their careers and get rich as their career progresses. There isn't any other explanation. The leftist argument of "Look at the inequality" and putting people in buckets of rich vs poor like the groups are always the same lacks any integrity because most people jump between these groups in their lives. As for comparison between EU and US, I did it because EU is a single economic zone anyway. Countries like France and Germany as I said had a headstart over other countries because of early industrial revolution and imperialism. But if you look at trends, they are clearly going downhill. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? You seem ideologically committed in some way to Europe needing to be a success, even though the factual prognosis is mediocre to grim. Facts are facts, why do you care? The sky is blue, I don’t get upset about it and insist that it’s green." The EU failing harms the U.K, and that’s kind of important, since the trade deals we’ve put in place so far don’t even scratch the surface of our trade as an EU member. They’re our largest trading partner. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. This seems to have come from a site called "knowledge 4 policy" and they have the word "might" with no references or data or suggest why they might be predicting this." Search for "The World in 2050" on pwc website. EU contribution to world GDP came down from 25% to 15% in the last 3 decades. Why does it surprise you that it will go down to 9% in the next 3 decades? | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. " Will, or might? And even if the EU shrinks as a percentage of the global economy, that doesn’t actually mean the EU economy will shrink. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. This seems to have come from a site called "knowledge 4 policy" and they have the word "might" with no references or data or suggest why they might be predicting this. Search for "The World in 2050" on pwc website. EU contribution to world GDP came down from 25% to 15% in the last 3 decades. Why does it surprise you that it will go down to 9% in the next 3 decades?" It ‘predicts ‘ the USA will drop to 12% | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. Will, or might? And even if the EU shrinks as a percentage of the global economy, that doesn’t actually mean the EU economy will shrink. " Pretty much every prediction is an educated guess. You just have to look at the historic trends to see it isn't far fetched. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything.
That depends on which EU country you are looking at, in terms of life expectancy.
Is inequality a good measure of anything? I’m sure there is less inequality in Romania than the US, in the sense that people are more equally poor.
Exactly! Would you rather live in a society where there is inequality but poor people still make a decent living or a society where there is equality but most people are poor?
Another big issue with the measurements of inequality is that most people who are in the lower end of income distribution are people who just graduated, which makes sense because they are just getting their first job. In the US which seems to be the punch bag for economic inequality, 73% of people reach top 20% at some point in their life. So it's not like a set of people who are always poor.
Do you have anything to back up that assertion that most people at the lower end of the financial scale are recent graduates? I know when I graduated I didn’t have a great wage but it was way above minimum wage, which is the level at least 1.6 million people are on in the UK.
Also, you can’t make comparisons between the EU and the US, then say you have to compare individual EU countries. That’s not how it works.
You can search for the article titled "Some Amazing Findings on Income Mobility in the US Including This: The Image of a Static 1 and 99 Percent Is False"
Economists mostly explain this by saying that the people in bottom 20% are mostly people in early stages of their careers and get rich as their career progresses. There isn't any other explanation. The leftist argument of "Look at the inequality" and putting people in buckets of rich vs poor like the groups are always the same lacks any integrity because most people jump between these groups in their lives.
As for comparison between EU and US, I did it because EU is a single economic zone anyway. Countries like France and Germany as I said had a headstart over other countries because of early industrial revolution and imperialism. But if you look at trends, they are clearly going downhill. "Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. Will, or might? And even if the EU shrinks as a percentage of the global economy, that doesn’t actually mean the EU economy will shrink. Pretty much every prediction is an educated guess. You just have to look at the historic trends to see it isn't far fetched. " “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable,” John Kenneth Galbraith (Economist) | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. Will, or might? And even if the EU shrinks as a percentage of the global economy, that doesn’t actually mean the EU economy will shrink. Pretty much every prediction is an educated guess. You just have to look at the historic trends to see it isn't far fetched. “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable,” John Kenneth Galbraith (Economist)" | |||
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"It “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable,” John Kenneth Galbraith (Economist)" Hilarious, will remember than one | |||
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"It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too. Predicted growth through 2026. When is it going to start dying, exactly? How much growth? What's that growth per capita? Current prediction is that, by 2050, EU's economy will just be 9% of the global economy. It is just on the way to become irrelevant. Will, or might? And even if the EU shrinks as a percentage of the global economy, that doesn’t actually mean the EU economy will shrink. Pretty much every prediction is an educated guess. You just have to look at the historic trends to see it isn't far fetched. “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable,” John Kenneth Galbraith (Economist)" Well then don't show me those predictions about Brexit too. The thing with EU is that it is already a ground reality. Look at how many massive tech companies have been built from US and Asia. Why wasn't EU able to compete? Or take the matter of electric cars. Car manufacturing is supposed to be a strong industry in EU. Yet, they couldn't catch up with rest of the world. With AI? It hasn't even started and no one knows how AI is going to develop. And we have the EU bureaucrats already passing regulations about it. Of course EU will lose in that competition too. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation." If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. " Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs." I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. " You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
Perhaps start looking at things life life expectancy, or inequality when comparing the EU tk the US, money isn’t everything.
That depends on which EU country you are looking at, in terms of life expectancy.
Is inequality a good measure of anything? I’m sure there is less inequality in Romania than the US, in the sense that people are more equally poor.
Exactly! Would you rather live in a society where there is inequality but poor people still make a decent living or a society where there is equality but most people are poor?
Another big issue with the measurements of inequality is that most people who are in the lower end of income distribution are people who just graduated, which makes sense because they are just getting their first job. In the US which seems to be the punch bag for economic inequality, 73% of people reach top 20% at some point in their life. So it's not like a set of people who are always poor.
Do you have anything to back up that assertion that most people at the lower end of the financial scale are recent graduates? I know when I graduated I didn’t have a great wage but it was way above minimum wage, which is the level at least 1.6 million people are on in the UK.
Also, you can’t make comparisons between the EU and the US, then say you have to compare individual EU countries. That’s not how it works.
You can search for the article titled "Some Amazing Findings on Income Mobility in the US Including This: The Image of a Static 1 and 99 Percent Is False"
Economists mostly explain this by saying that the people in bottom 20% are mostly people in early stages of their careers and get rich as their career progresses. There isn't any other explanation. The leftist argument of "Look at the inequality" and putting people in buckets of rich vs poor like the groups are always the same lacks any integrity because most people jump between these groups in their lives.
As for comparison between EU and US, I did it because EU is a single economic zone anyway. Countries like France and Germany as I said had a headstart over other countries because of early industrial revolution and imperialism. But if you look at trends, they are clearly going downhill. "something like 20pc of people both get into the top 20pc in a year and also are close to poverty for a year. I'm not sure what to do with that stat but seems to be a result of their numbers. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) " Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility." What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal." It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status." You didn’t read your own article? | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? " Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why." You keep omitting that the 73% reach that status *for a year* - why do you think they include that detail? | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why. You keep omitting that the 73% reach that status *for a year* - why do you think they include that detail? " For *at least a year*. There is a big difference with these words when you are looking at statistics. Also, it's not like they move from top 20% to bottom 20%. Once people retire, there is a good chance that they are pushed out of top 20%. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why. You keep omitting that the 73% reach that status *for a year* - why do you think they include that detail? For *at least a year*. There is a big difference with these words when you are looking at statistics. Also, it's not like they move from top 20% to bottom 20%. Once people retire, there is a good chance that they are pushed out of top 20%. " 54% experience poverty. 73% reach the top 20% of earners for at least a year. (Considerably less for 10 consecutive years) And you think that’s not volatile? | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why. You keep omitting that the 73% reach that status *for a year* - why do you think they include that detail? For *at least a year*. There is a big difference with these words when you are looking at statistics. Also, it's not like they move from top 20% to bottom 20%. Once people retire, there is a good chance that they are pushed out of top 20%. 54% experience poverty. 73% reach the top 20% of earners for at least a year. (Considerably less for 10 consecutive years) And you think that’s not volatile? " Again, lot of people start at lower levels. They progress in their careers, make enough money to reach top 20% and retire at some point, when others who are still working move up to the top 20% pushing them a bit down. What's so wrong about it? It's just how it happens in most countries, unless the country has a huge housing crisis which results in giving advantage to people who have historical wealth. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why. You keep omitting that the 73% reach that status *for a year* - why do you think they include that detail? For *at least a year*. There is a big difference with these words when you are looking at statistics. Also, it's not like they move from top 20% to bottom 20%. Once people retire, there is a good chance that they are pushed out of top 20%. 54% experience poverty. 73% reach the top 20% of earners for at least a year. (Considerably less for 10 consecutive years) And you think that’s not volatile? Again, lot of people start at lower levels. They progress in their careers, make enough money to reach top 20% and retire at some point, when others who are still working move up to the top 20% pushing them a bit down. What's so wrong about it? It's just how it happens in most countries, unless the country has a huge housing crisis which results in giving advantage to people who have historical wealth." I think you’re misrepresenting the data. I’m sure it’s not on purpose, but that doesn’t change anything. | |||
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" Who are these economists because I would suggest that they are ignoring the 60+% of US kids who don’t attend university. And to say ‘there isn’t any other explanation is like me knowing nothing about how aeroplanes work and saying “it’s magic” there’s no other explanation. If you read more from Thomas Sowell, he will back it up with further statistics to show that people start poor but move out of the bottom 20% later in their lives. Economic mobility in the US, and indeed the UK, is lower than the other G7 nations, with a high link between earnings of the father and the child. Americans believe that they will be rewarded for intelligence, hard work, and skills but the evidence doesn’t back up those beliefs. I just gave you evidence that 73% of Americans reach top 20% of income earners. And you still believe that hard work isn't rewarded there? Most of the top 10 richest in US are from middle class families. Some even from poorer families. You forgot the bit about those 73% of Americans reaching the top 20% *for a year* And 54% of Americans will experience poverty. From the same source (which is 10 years old btw) Yes, because many people start from lower/no income? The ideas is simple. US doesn't have much in the form of welfare. So most people born in poor or lower middle class, start in poor state. But eventually most of them move up the ladder with the hardwork. But the meme of inequality always makes it look like the top 20% and bottom 20% are two different groups of people locked in a life long battle. Now I don't completely appreciate the US model. I do think there must be some level of welfare in the form of healthcare and education. My concerns with Europe are about how they have essentially killed innovation and made people too much reliant on the state, instead of giving people more individual responsibility. What the data reveals is that life in America is incredibly volatile for many. Hardly ideal. It doesn't reveal that. From what I have read from other books, it's a case of people starting poor and eventually reaching middle class status. You didn’t read your own article? Yes. It doesn't reveal what you said and I explained to you why. You keep omitting that the 73% reach that status *for a year* - why do you think they include that detail? For *at least a year*. There is a big difference with these words when you are looking at statistics. Also, it's not like they move from top 20% to bottom 20%. Once people retire, there is a good chance that they are pushed out of top 20%. 54% experience poverty. 73% reach the top 20% of earners for at least a year. (Considerably less for 10 consecutive years) And you think that’s not volatile? Again, lot of people start at lower levels. They progress in their careers, make enough money to reach top 20% and retire at some point, when others who are still working move up to the top 20% pushing them a bit down. What's so wrong about it? It's just how it happens in most countries, unless the country has a huge housing crisis which results in giving advantage to people who have historical wealth. I think you’re misrepresenting the data. I’m sure it’s not on purpose, but that doesn’t change anything. " You are the one trying to misrepresent. You tried replacing "at least one year" with "one year". I am not sure if that's on purpose. | |||
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"People have been saying the EEC/EU is doomed since it began. Spoiler alert - it’s not. The only people who think/hope Europe is finished are deluded Brexit voters trying to justify their vote and hide the fact Brexit has failed
Have you seen the % of GDP contribution by EU to yhr with world GDP? It has gone down from 25% in 1990 to 15% now, in spite of adding numerous countries in between. It is a dying Economic zone and the future predictions are dire too.
That is due to china, Europe is doing fine, countries are trying to join the EU, only one country was stupid enough to leave
But US managed to lose only a much smaller share of Global productivity. Countries like Romania wants to join EU because they get free money from EU and EU wants them to get cheap labour. Now that German economy is fucked, I don't see how they can sustain this model for long.
They will, if I was you I would be more worried at the appalling state of the UK economy
Every economy has been fucked because of Covid and war. US economy has been recovering faster as always. EU is much slower in recovery as always. UK right now is recovering slightly better than EU. "War is the second best way known to drive GDP. It generates productivity. Tourism beats it. Saying every economy has suffered because of war is incorrect. The government and client media keeps gaslighting us with this excuse. Don’t fall for it. | |||
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"We need to get past seeing the world merely in terms of GDP and economic growth. It only covers things in a purely economic sense when human societies have existed and flourished long before this became the normal way to describe a society's success. Even Simon Kuznets (the guy behind the modern view of what GDP is) warned against it's use as a measure of societal success as it only covers a narrow band. The USA may have an apparently great economy, but quality of life for much of its populace is far under the populations of many countries that have much lower GDP or average wages." So true. We can see increases in growth but the population dont see the benefits with poverty, crime and poor health endemic. Until we measure the total well-being of economy, population and environment will we see a true measure of success. | |||
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"The EU is heading towards the right, anti immigration being the main issue, like it or not " One can also be economically left wing and anti-immigration, like the social democrats of Denmark. Some left wingers even argue that if you care about worker rights, you have to be anti-immigration as immigration is a tool used by capitalists to reduce worker wages. | |||
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