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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI?" “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” " What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. " It’s from the ONS. But regardless of exactly what sectors are most/least at risk, we all accept that a good chunk are, right? So what’s the future look like? How are more people, competing for far fewer jobs, going to get by? | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. " Yes, I'd have thought the opposite too. Stuff that requires human manipulation in a changing environment (waiting on tables for example) is pretty difficult. Feeding data from sensors around your house and person into ML/AI analysis takes out a whole raft of medical practice (and is easy to do). All you need then is someone to sign off on the diagnostic/prescription decisions the system makes... | |||
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" The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” " Those 'professionals' are largely robits anyway, that's why they're low risk  | |||
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" Yes, I'd have thought the opposite too. Stuff that requires human manipulation in a changing environment (waiting on tables for example) is pretty difficult. " An iPad at the entrance to register your arrival and get your table number, another one at the table to order from and make requests. Waiting staff only come see you when necessary. Same tasks, far fewer staff. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be? "UBI is my answer. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be? "Very little.Industries that will suffer most from automation already have recruitment shortages compared to where they should be AI is a load of overblown rubbish that nobody should see as something to base anything around.It's literally a fancier search engine | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer. "I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative. Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t) | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)"Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)"Economic insanity would more be my answer but sadly so many are stuck in the days of Thatcher (Oh we need her back so much) | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
Very little.Industries that will suffer most from automation already have recruitment shortages compared to where they should be
AI is a load of overblown rubbish that nobody should see as something to base anything around.It's literally a fancier search engine"Really? How many LGV drivers, forklift drivers, financial advisors/accountants, manufacturing jobs etc can we lose before it ceases to be overblown? | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Economic insanity would more be my answer but sadly so many are stuck in the days of Thatcher (Oh we need her back so much)"Not going to get off topic, but suffice to say I disagree. And I need a piss, sadly I’m nowhere near her grave  | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
"UBI is really the start of the answer. It needs a re-engineering of society (which obviously is not going to happen). Production needs to be taken out of the hands of the few, and put into the hands of "the people" or their representatives. So that the whole concept of profit can be taken out of the way things are done. In that way things (food, clothes, etc. etc.) could be produced by the machines for the people that require them without the requirement to earn money and transfer this into the old owners hands. Without something like that, it's hard to see how it could work. With less people earning and fewer owners owning everything... | |||
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" Yes, I'd have thought the opposite too. Stuff that requires human manipulation in a changing environment (waiting on tables for example) is pretty difficult. An iPad at the entrance to register your arrival and get your table number, another one at the table to order from and make requests. Waiting staff only come see you when necessary. Same tasks, far fewer staff. " This allready happens in Mc Donald's you place order on screen and its sent to the kitchen. But what is to stop a lecture at one university doing a Zoom Lecture with 20 others Teaching by remote. The only jobs that will be safe are hands on trades.. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies."There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them | |||
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" Yes, I'd have thought the opposite too. Stuff that requires human manipulation in a changing environment (waiting on tables for example) is pretty difficult. An iPad at the entrance to register your arrival and get your table number, another one at the table to order from and make requests. Waiting staff only come see you when necessary. Same tasks, far fewer staff. This allready happens in Mc Donald's you place order on screen and its sent to the kitchen. But what is to stop a lecture at one university doing a Zoom Lecture with 20 others Teaching by remote. The only jobs that will be safe are hands on trades.. " Even those - a machine could be programmed to plaster a wall or a ceiling, for example. And the future is going to be mass produced ‘flat-pack’ houses, with components manufactured by machines in a factory. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Economic insanity would more be my answer but sadly so many are stuck in the days of Thatcher (Oh we need her back so much)
Not going to get off topic, but suffice to say I disagree.
And I need a piss, sadly I’m nowhere near her grave "She is not with my piss.. | |||
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" Yes, I'd have thought the opposite too. Stuff that requires human manipulation in a changing environment (waiting on tables for example) is pretty difficult. An iPad at the entrance to register your arrival and get your table number, another one at the table to order from and make requests. Waiting staff only come see you when necessary. Same tasks, far fewer staff. This allready happens in Mc Donald's you place order on screen and its sent to the kitchen. But what is to stop a lecture at one university doing a Zoom Lecture with 20 others Teaching by remote. The only jobs that will be safe are hands on trades.. Even those - a machine could be programmed to plaster a wall or a ceiling, for example. And the future is going to be mass produced ‘flat-pack’ houses, with components manufactured by machines in a factory." Let's see a machine get in to a 1940 built property lift floor boards and falt find. As for new builds Yes it can be done off site but we are a long way off mass reduction in all trades not just construction. Car maternance for example. And you plastering machine will need fixing and maintenance. | |||
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" Yes, I'd have thought the opposite too. Stuff that requires human manipulation in a changing environment (waiting on tables for example) is pretty difficult. An iPad at the entrance to register your arrival and get your table number, another one at the table to order from and make requests. Waiting staff only come see you when necessary. Same tasks, far fewer staff. This allready happens in Mc Donald's you place order on screen and its sent to the kitchen. But what is to stop a lecture at one university doing a Zoom Lecture with 20 others Teaching by remote. The only jobs that will be safe are hands on trades.. Even those - a machine could be programmed to plaster a wall or a ceiling, for example. And the future is going to be mass produced ‘flat-pack’ houses, with components manufactured by machines in a factory. Let's see a machine get in to a 1940 built property lift floor boards and falt find. As for new builds Yes it can be done off site but we are a long way off mass reduction in all trades not just construction. Car maternance for example. And you plastering machine will need fixing and maintenance. " There’s always going to be some people needed - but not in the numbers we see today. Nowhere close. Yes we’ll need someone to maintain the plastering machine every few months, but that plastering machine made (x) plasterers redundant. And car mechanics today - what do they do, predominately? Plug the car into a laptop. As cars have fewer parts and rely more on software, they become more like your laptop. Download some new software, fix a bug. Job done. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them "Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that "So how would UBI be different to univsal credit.. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit.. "Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up. UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody. It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time. "OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way. For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI. So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work "You’re comparing a future environment to now. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
You’re comparing a future environment to now."Oh OK So bye then taxes will fly and food will be a pill. And I'll be dead 100 years ago lol. | |||
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"Following on from recent discussions, research suggests that anywhere from 10% to 50% of jobs are at risk from AI and automation in the near future. With a growing population, increasing retirement age, what is going to happen? How will people earn? Is universal basic income the answer? If not, what is?" Would we still need a growing population if automation takes lots of jobs | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
You’re comparing a future environment to now.
Oh OK
So bye then taxes will fly and food will be a pill. And I'll be dead 100 years ago lol.
"More than likely | |||
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"Following on from recent discussions, research suggests that anywhere from 10% to 50% of jobs are at risk from AI and automation in the near future. With a growing population, increasing retirement age, what is going to happen? How will people earn? Is universal basic income the answer? If not, what is? Would we still need a growing population if automation takes lots of jobs " We’ll have one as climate migration forces people north. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work "Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income."What UBI framework are you quoting here? | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?"I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is"Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it. | |||
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"How about fair distribution of pay “In the UK the average CEO of big British companies was paid 131 times average workers in 2016 (up from 47 times in 1998). However, on the 3rd of August 2017 the UK’s High pay centre revealed that the average UK FTSE 100 CEO pay had dropped by 17% in just one year, down to £4.5million from £5.4million.” https://www.dannydorling.org/?p=6443 " communism is not welcome, if people would like that I know a few places where they will be welcomed with Ak45’s  | |||
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"How about fair distribution of pay “In the UK the average CEO of big British companies was paid 131 times average workers in 2016 (up from 47 times in 1998). However, on the 3rd of August 2017 the UK’s High pay centre revealed that the average UK FTSE 100 CEO pay had dropped by 17% in just one year, down to £4.5million from £5.4million.” https://www.dannydorling.org/?p=6443 communism is not welcome, if people would like that I know a few places where they will be welcomed with Ak45’s "No future in inequality https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20Kingdom's,higher%20score%20implies%20more%20inequality. | |||
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"How about fair distribution of pay “In the UK the average CEO of big British companies was paid 131 times average workers in 2016 (up from 47 times in 1998). However, on the 3rd of August 2017 the UK’s High pay centre revealed that the average UK FTSE 100 CEO pay had dropped by 17% in just one year, down to £4.5million from £5.4million.” https://www.dannydorling.org/?p=6443 communism is not welcome, if people would like that I know a few places where they will be welcomed with Ak45’s
No future in inequality
https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20Kingdom's,higher%20score%20implies%20more%20inequality.
"What is the meaning behind the link, I’ve taken a look but I’ve got to be honest I have gone down far to many rabbit holes on here to spend more than 5 mins looking at a provided link without context. I | |||
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"How about fair distribution of pay “In the UK the average CEO of big British companies was paid 131 times average workers in 2016 (up from 47 times in 1998). However, on the 3rd of August 2017 the UK’s High pay centre revealed that the average UK FTSE 100 CEO pay had dropped by 17% in just one year, down to £4.5million from £5.4million.” https://www.dannydorling.org/?p=6443 communism is not welcome, if people would like that I know a few places where they will be welcomed with Ak45’s
No future in inequality
https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20Kingdom's,higher%20score%20implies%20more%20inequality.
What is the meaning behind the link, I’ve taken a look but I’ve got to be honest I have gone down far to many rabbit holes on here to spend more than 5 mins looking at a provided link without context.
I"Scroll up and there are views on the merits of UBI. How have we got here, wage suppression, high cost of housing (8x earnings with rents to match. Was 3x in 1975). Affordable social housing sold off More tax for tax payers, less tax from those (ppl and companies) that offshore their income/ profits Unfair distribution as the wealthy get richer while the less well off get poorer. Highest tax rises in 70 years has made no benefit to public services Agree about UBI but it is a race to the bottom. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
"That’s what UBI is. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
"this is from the link: "While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor". the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
this is from the link:
"While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor".
the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it."“A universal basic income is guaranteed regular cash payments from the government to every individual in society regardless of how much you currently earn or have saved up.” | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"How about fair distribution of pay “In the UK the average CEO of big British companies was paid 131 times average workers in 2016 (up from 47 times in 1998). However, on the 3rd of August 2017 the UK’s High pay centre revealed that the average UK FTSE 100 CEO pay had dropped by 17% in just one year, down to £4.5million from £5.4million.” https://www.dannydorling.org/?p=6443 communism is not welcome, if people would like that I know a few places where they will be welcomed with Ak45’s
No future in inequality
https://www.statista.com/statistics/872472/gini-index-of-the-united-kingdom/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20Kingdom's,higher%20score%20implies%20more%20inequality.
What is the meaning behind the link, I’ve taken a look but I’ve got to be honest I have gone down far to many rabbit holes on here to spend more than 5 mins looking at a provided link without context.
I
Scroll up and there are views on the merits of UBI. How have we got here, wage suppression, high cost of housing (8x earnings with rents to match. Was 3x in 1975). Affordable social housing sold off
More tax for tax payers, less tax from those (ppl and companies) that offshore their income/ profits
Unfair distribution as the wealthy get richer while the less well off get poorer.
Highest tax rises in 70 years has made no benefit to public services
Agree about UBI but it is a race to the bottom. "It is a way of creaming off the top x%, until the top x% stop giving and leave. That is in my opinion | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
this is from the link:
"While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor".
the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it.
“A universal basic income is guaranteed regular cash payments from the government to every individual in society regardless of how much you currently earn or have saved up.”
"what was child benefit a number of years ago? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
this is from the link:
"While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor".
the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it.
“A universal basic income is guaranteed regular cash payments from the government to every individual in society regardless of how much you currently earn or have saved up.”
"How do we fund UBI to 40 million adults. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
this is from the link:
"While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor".
the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it.
“A universal basic income is guaranteed regular cash payments from the government to every individual in society regardless of how much you currently earn or have saved up.”
How do we fund UBI to 40 million adults. "Part of it will come from the removal of existing benefits - but the funding will have to be found, simply because the alternative is poverty for a huge chunk of the population. It’s a problem we can’t afford *not* to solve. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
this is from the link:
"While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor".
the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it.
“A universal basic income is guaranteed regular cash payments from the government to every individual in society regardless of how much you currently earn or have saved up.”
How do we fund UBI to 40 million adults. "1000 per month to each adult is 480b per year. Benefits payments atm are 265b. We spent over 300b on covid, that tells us the money is available should we want it to be. | |||
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"So are we just going to decide who’s more or least in need of automation? Because that’s not what the point is. Or does nobody have an answer of what they think the impact will be?
UBI is my answer.
I think it has to be. I don’t see an alternative.
Some will resist though because ‘that’s socialism’ (it isn’t)
Nobody hates socialism as much as you think they do. They hate people being lazy and not take personal responsibility off the back of socialist policies.
There are some (or used to be) on here who really really really do hate socialism. So much so in one case they would argue the Nazis were socialists in an effort to try and tarnish socialism with the Nazi atrocities. Of course there has been enough Socialist regimes who have done that by themselves, they don’t need right wingers to help them
Socialism isn't the same as some socialist policies. We should all know that
So how would UBI be different to univsal credit..
Universal credit is means tested and dependent upon circumstances- it’s a top up.
UBI is just that, a basic income paid to everybody.
It’s a serious conversation we need to have in the event of perhaps a third of the country becoming unemployed in a relatively short space of time.
OK I get that but if you are working and are under this UBI and you boss asked yiu to over time surly you would just say NO I get UBI any way.
For that matter why go to university to earn more and rack up debt to not gain from UBI.
So if you become entitled to UBI like state pension why would anyone want to work
Everyone will get UBI. It’s universal basic income.
What UBI framework are you quoting here?
I’m not quoting anything - that’s what UBI is
Is there a defined UBI, trials are happening but I don’t see a standard framework that says everyone gets it.
That’s what UBI is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/the-uk-universal-basic-income-trial#:~:text=The%2030%20participants%20in%20the,market%20and%20boost%20personal%20wellbeing.
this is from the link:
"While there are different models of UBI, the concept is the same. The money you receive is designed to cover your basic needs such as food, energy and housing. It is also aimed at creating a minimum income floor".
the idea that everyone got this doesn't make sense, as you stated above they would. It sounds like child benefit, a basic child allowance is X. It would simply uplift the floor and everything else would simply lift with it.
“A universal basic income is guaranteed regular cash payments from the government to every individual in society regardless of how much you currently earn or have saved up.”
How do we fund UBI to 40 million adults.
Part of it will come from the removal of existing benefits - but the funding will have to be found, simply because the alternative is poverty for a huge chunk of the population.
It’s a problem we can’t afford *not* to solve."Three years ago the estimated cost was £67bn a year. (Link says adds 39% to cost of existing benefits). https://basicincome.org/news/2020/09/the-cost-of-a-full-basic-income-for-the-united-kingdom-would-be-67-billion-per-year-3-4-of-gdp/#:~:text=Municipal%20Leaders-,The%20Cost%20of%20a%20Full%20Basic%20Income%20for%20the%20United,year%20(3.4%25%20of%20GDP)&text=Universal%20Basic%20Income%20(UBI)%20%E2%80%93,work%20requirement%20%E2%80%93%20is%20surprisingly%20inexpensive. In 2022/23 the government spent approximately £231.4bn on benefits | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI?" I think only fans actors might be a bit concerned, looking at some of the AI generated videos out there now. Why pay to watch a pereon, when an AI bot can give you exactly what you are looking. | |||
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| |||
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| |||
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"Following on from recent discussions, research suggests that anywhere from 10% to 50% of jobs are at risk from AI and automation in the near future. With a growing population, increasing retirement age, what is going to happen? How will people earn? Is universal basic income the answer? If not, what is? Would we still need a growing population if automation takes lots of jobs We’ll have one as climate migration forces people north." So contrary to the other threads that say we need more people for pensions, this is actually saying we don't need them if the automation theory is correct, but instead we will be forced to take them. | |||
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"Following on from recent discussions, research suggests that anywhere from 10% to 50% of jobs are at risk from AI and automation in the near future. With a growing population, increasing retirement age, what is going to happen? How will people earn? Is universal basic income the answer? If not, what is? Would we still need a growing population if automation takes lots of jobs We’ll have one as climate migration forces people north. So contrary to the other threads that say we need more people for pensions, this is actually saying we don't need them if the automation theory is correct, but instead we will be forced to take them. " One is shorter term than the other, not both are true. | |||
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| |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work?" Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work?" It’s not enough to live on for many 
One of the things that trials are investigating (though not sure how effective the data will be given the limited nature of the trials) - does JBI increase wages in low paid jobs. Since those earning minimum wage may see UBI as preferable to work, so the jobs have to be made more attractive in order to fill them. (Obvs if they’re automated, it’s a moot point) | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth." I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy. | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy." And those with no mortgage are an increasingly small sector of society (and will continue to shrink if something isn’t done) | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy." Not one person I know under the age of 60 owns their house outright. | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy. Not one person I know under the age of 60 owns their house outright. " You obviously don't know us then
Paid the mortgage off over 10 years ago. | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy. Not one person I know under the age of 60 owns their house outright. You obviously don't know us then
Paid the mortgage off over 10 years ago."You’re very much an outlier though. | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy. Not one person I know under the age of 60 owns their house outright. " Hello [wave] | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? " Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end. | |||
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"One thing I would say is that we are generally not very good at predicting the future (apart from The Simpsons)... We only remember the predictions that are right, not the ones that are wrong... Also, a lot of jobs around now didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago and there are jobs from 30 or 40 years ago that no longer exist. AI is essentially pattern matching, it's a useful tool in some circumstances, but it's not perfect. I can see it changing some jobs, much like computers changed typing, finance and admin over the last 50 years. AI has been blamed for job cuts but I think that's more corporate smoke and mirrors, IBM tried that and they had a bit of a media shit storm as a result, it didn't wash." But where will AI be in 50-100 years? This is not likely to impact people en-masse in the next decade or two, but one day? It’s almost certain. | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end." So someone who might have contributed NI wise for say five years or less would get it alongside someone else who had contributed for 30 plus years.. I get the reasons aligned to poverty levels in the country but if that was the case it would be politically hazardous for whichever party proposed it.. | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end. So someone who might have contributed NI wise for say five years or less would get it alongside someone else who had contributed for 30 plus years.. I get the reasons aligned to poverty levels in the country but if that was the case it would be politically hazardous for whichever party proposed it.." I think it will ultimately be inevitable. Not in our lifetime, but the next generations? Very probable. | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end. So someone who might have contributed NI wise for say five years or less would get it alongside someone else who had contributed for 30 plus years.. I get the reasons aligned to poverty levels in the country but if that was the case it would be politically hazardous for whichever party proposed it.. " I don't get your point about NI. NI isn't saved/invested by the government to go into your pension pot. It's used to pay the pensions/benefits/etc of today. When you need to claim these things the NI of those paying at the time pay for you. So the length of time paying NI is irrelevant (and also why we need immigration). | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end. So someone who might have contributed NI wise for say five years or less would get it alongside someone else who had contributed for 30 plus years.. I get the reasons aligned to poverty levels in the country but if that was the case it would be politically hazardous for whichever party proposed it.. I think it will ultimately be inevitable. Not in our lifetime, but the next generations? Very probable." Possibly.. | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end. So someone who might have contributed NI wise for say five years or less would get it alongside someone else who had contributed for 30 plus years.. I get the reasons aligned to poverty levels in the country but if that was the case it would be politically hazardous for whichever party proposed it.. I don't get your point about NI. NI isn't saved/invested by the government to go into your pension pot. It's used to pay the pensions/benefits/etc of today. When you need to claim these things the NI of those paying at the time pay for you. So the length of time paying NI is irrelevant (and also why we need immigration)." My knowledge of it as an idea is very limited, I used the NI issue as a 'what if' and cheers for the information.. Agree we need immigration. | |||
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"Has anyone (politicians/think-tanks) set out how it might work and how it would be applied..? Would it replace state pension, who might be applicable etc? Everyone would get it. That’s what UBI is - and I suspect all benefits (including pensions - which I appreciate isn’t a benefit) would end. So someone who might have contributed NI wise for say five years or less would get it alongside someone else who had contributed for 30 plus years.. I get the reasons aligned to poverty levels in the country but if that was the case it would be politically hazardous for whichever party proposed it.. I don't get your point about NI. NI isn't saved/invested by the government to go into your pension pot. It's used to pay the pensions/benefits/etc of today. When you need to claim these things the NI of those paying at the time pay for you. So the length of time paying NI is irrelevant (and also why we need immigration)." That sounds like a pyramid scheme which are illegal in the uk.  | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. " What can I say  | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. " I bought my first house at 19, with a 50% deposit (houses were cheaper then). Paid this one off when I was 40. It could be argued that it would have been better to max out the cheap credit that was available, and buy a bigger house every few years to make it easier to downsize and release capital however that is disruptive and you are at risk if interest rates change. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. " We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. What can I say "I think I paid mine off when I was about 45. Mostly it was a case of overpaying it as much as possible plus a lot of discipline and prioritising it over other things. Lots of people don’t understand how mortgages work, and yes I appreciate lots of people can’t overpay them. I’d be quite happy to take UBI alongside my pension. I guess the people maintaining all the robots will have to pay 500% of their salaries to keep all those UBI payments going but I’m sure they will be well paid. It’s a highly skilled job, unless the robots are maintaining each other. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. " And half of FTB enabled by bank of mum and dad. https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/news/half-of-first-time-buyers-looking-to-bank-of-mum-and-dad/ | |||
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"If UBI of £1000 per month (annually raised by inflation) was brought in I would retire straight away. That is enough to live on so why should I work? Maybe in Leigh, it wouldn't touch the sides in Bournemouth. I'm sure it would if you owned your house (and everything else such as cars) outright. Only food and bills is easy. And those with no mortgage are an increasingly small sector of society (and will continue to shrink if something isn’t done) " Actually that’s is not the case, a surprise to many but there are now more unemcumbered homes than mortgaged. Whether this trend continues don’t know. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-11922413/amp/More-people-England-homes-outright-mortgage-rent-figures-reveal.html | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. I bought my first house at 19, with a 50% deposit (houses were cheaper then). Paid this one off when I was 40. It could be argued that it would have been better to max out the cheap credit that was available, and buy a bigger house every few years to make it easier to downsize and release capital however that is disruptive and you are at risk if interest rates change." That's the issue I think. I would hazard a guess that 99.9% of the population standing on their own 2 feet could put down a 50% deposit at that age on any property without serious help. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.." Too much money sat idle asleep in housing equity There should be incentives for releasing and investing in the economy £9trn total uk property values (ons) £1.65 trn outstanding mortgages (ons) - mostly as expected owed by young/middle aged | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.. Too much money sat idle asleep in housing equity There should be incentives for releasing and investing in the economy £9trn total uk property values (ons) £1.65 trn outstanding mortgages (ons) - mostly as expected owed by young/middle aged " Sounds a great idea. Get people to remortgage and invest in speculative bubbles. Then people start losing their homes so the state has to step in to protect them. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.. Too much money sat idle asleep in housing equity There should be incentives for releasing and investing in the economy £9trn total uk property values (ons) £1.65 trn outstanding mortgages (ons) - mostly as expected owed by young/middle aged " Some do release equity, but there's very some risks with that and there are some horror stories in that sector for the homeowners.. Better regulation perhaps might sort the dodgy players and encourage it as an option .. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.. Too much money sat idle asleep in housing equity There should be incentives for releasing and investing in the economy £9trn total uk property values (ons) £1.65 trn outstanding mortgages (ons) - mostly as expected owed by young/middle aged Sounds a great idea. Get people to remortgage and invest in speculative bubbles. Then people start losing their homes so the state has to step in to protect them." What about the state borrowing it at a low rate of interest and investing in public services. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.. Too much money sat idle asleep in housing equity There should be incentives for releasing and investing in the economy £9trn total uk property values (ons) £1.65 trn outstanding mortgages (ons) - mostly as expected owed by young/middle aged Some do release equity, but there's very some risks with that and there are some horror stories in that sector for the homeowners.. Better regulation perhaps might sort the dodgy players and encourage it as an option .." £7trillion sat there doing nothing Government could borrow and pay the Homeower a rate if interest (incentivised tax free?) and invest in public services. | |||
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"So there's a couple of people who have paid off their homes. My post should've read 50, but even still that's some feat, let's say most people under the age of 50 will not own their home outright. In my area the average price of a home is nearly 400k. The average age of first time buyers is 30ish. To pay that off early in life takes some serious funds, even without calculating for interest. We did it 11 yrs ago when down south but that was in a property we paid £60k for in 93 and your right to say the average price today in many parts of the country make that a much diminished possibility going forward for many .. A mixture of hard work and fortunate when we brought that one etc.. Too much money sat idle asleep in housing equity There should be incentives for releasing and investing in the economy £9trn total uk property values (ons) £1.65 trn outstanding mortgages (ons) - mostly as expected owed by young/middle aged Some do release equity, but there's very some risks with that and there are some horror stories in that sector for the homeowners.. Better regulation perhaps might sort the dodgy players and encourage it as an option .. £7trillion sat there doing nothing Government could borrow and pay the Homeower a rate if interest (incentivised tax free?) and invest in public services. " It’s unlikely that it’s sat there doing nothing. In most instances it is providing a home for people. In other instances it will already be put to productive economic use by being rented out as temporary accommodation of some sort for people who don’t want to own or who cannot buy. Even if it is sitting there empty it may be held as an investment and is generating wealth for someone. Property prices generally perform well and given the difference between houses being built and immigration numbers it may well still be a good bet for the future. | |||
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"Following on from recent discussions, research suggests that anywhere from 10% to 50% of jobs are at risk from AI and automation in the near future. With a growing population, increasing retirement age, what is going to happen? How will people earn? Is universal basic income the answer? If not, what is? Would we still need a growing population if automation takes lots of jobs We’ll have one as climate migration forces people north. So contrary to the other threads that say we need more people for pensions, this is actually saying we don't need them if the automation theory is correct, but instead we will be forced to take them. One is shorter term than the other, not both are true." They do not seem compatible having a larger population and UBI as the extra people will need UBI and every extra person is now having to be funded by the state. If you do the higher population first then unless you evict them when UBI starts I can't see it working. Sounds an interesting idea though. Apart from trials has anywhere adopted this? | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. " If you think patients would give genuine answers to questions and be able to adequately explain their symptoms then I’m afraid you have no idea what a lot of a medical professional’s job is. Machine learning is not AI, and the current algorithmically based systems are unlikely to successfully produce an artificial general intelligence. AI is the latest fad that everyone is pinning their hopes on, it will be able to help in the medical field but it will not replace medical professionals in any meaningful capacity. | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. If you think patients would give genuine answers to questions and be able to adequately explain their symptoms then I’m afraid you have no idea what a lot of a medical professional’s job is. Machine learning is not AI, and the current algorithmically based systems are unlikely to successfully produce an artificial general intelligence. AI is the latest fad that everyone is pinning their hopes on, it will be able to help in the medical field but it will not replace medical professionals in any meaningful capacity." I don’t agree with this. I recently had an online consultation with a GP. I paid privately for the service since as per usual service from Our NHS was not available. I spoke via online video chat to a very nice female doctor. She was UK based but actually there was probably no reason why she needed to be. And there will be a time when the person I talk to will be a computer and not a person. Similarly all of the subsequent scans could be automated with no human intervention, as could the interpretation of the results and the diagnosis and the prescription etc. Actually I found the value of the human interaction of very limited value, though it was of high value to them in terms of what they invoiced. They were mostly undertaking simple tasks or spewing out information I had already ascertained from Dr Google. I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Whether we will want to or how the self interested medical unions respond is another matter. | |||
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" I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. " Didn’t you say “In my opinion AI is being massively over egged at the moment. I get endlessly bombarded with articles about it to my work account and most of them add up to a big zero. It seems to be an enormous bubble which we see now and again. We have seen major technological advances over the last couple of hundred years and all of them have come with predictions of mass unemployment and none of it has happened.” | |||
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" I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Didn’t you say “In my opinion AI is being massively over egged at the moment. I get endlessly bombarded with articles about it to my work account and most of them add up to a big zero. It seems to be an enormous bubble which we see now and again. We have seen major technological advances over the last couple of hundred years and all of them have come with predictions of mass unemployment and none of it has happened.” " It’s nice that you have got so little to do with your time that you are excavating through my past posts looking for loopholes and inconsistencies. | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. If you think patients would give genuine answers to questions and be able to adequately explain their symptoms then I’m afraid you have no idea what a lot of a medical professional’s job is. Machine learning is not AI, and the current algorithmically based systems are unlikely to successfully produce an artificial general intelligence. AI is the latest fad that everyone is pinning their hopes on, it will be able to help in the medical field but it will not replace medical professionals in any meaningful capacity. I don’t agree with this. I recently had an online consultation with a GP. I paid privately for the service since as per usual service from Our NHS was not available. I spoke via online video chat to a very nice female doctor. She was UK based but actually there was probably no reason why she needed to be. And there will be a time when the person I talk to will be a computer and not a person. Similarly all of the subsequent scans could be automated with no human intervention, as could the interpretation of the results and the diagnosis and the prescription etc. Actually I found the value of the human interaction of very limited value, though it was of high value to them in terms of what they invoiced. They were mostly undertaking simple tasks or spewing out information I had already ascertained from Dr Google. I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Whether we will want to or how the self interested medical unions respond is another matter. " You had a good interaction with a real person, albeit on the internet, who decided on what diagnostics you needed, and from this you determine that everyone will be able to have their medical care provided by AI in the future? I can only assume you are a lawyer, because they are the only people who will benefit from that set up. | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. If you think patients would give genuine answers to questions and be able to adequately explain their symptoms then I’m afraid you have no idea what a lot of a medical professional’s job is. Machine learning is not AI, and the current algorithmically based systems are unlikely to successfully produce an artificial general intelligence. AI is the latest fad that everyone is pinning their hopes on, it will be able to help in the medical field but it will not replace medical professionals in any meaningful capacity. " Which is why the ML/AI must be coupled with extensive sources of good data on the patient. Our houses and persons will need to be stuffed full of sensors, baselining behaviours and measurements looking for the anomalies. Once you can feed that into the system then the need for human intervention reduces. There's also the benefit that you don't have to wait for the patient to realise there is something wrong... | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. If you think patients would give genuine answers to questions and be able to adequately explain their symptoms then I’m afraid you have no idea what a lot of a medical professional’s job is. Machine learning is not AI, and the current algorithmically based systems are unlikely to successfully produce an artificial general intelligence. AI is the latest fad that everyone is pinning their hopes on, it will be able to help in the medical field but it will not replace medical professionals in any meaningful capacity. I don’t agree with this. I recently had an online consultation with a GP. I paid privately for the service since as per usual service from Our NHS was not available. I spoke via online video chat to a very nice female doctor. She was UK based but actually there was probably no reason why she needed to be. And there will be a time when the person I talk to will be a computer and not a person. Similarly all of the subsequent scans could be automated with no human intervention, as could the interpretation of the results and the diagnosis and the prescription etc. Actually I found the value of the human interaction of very limited value, though it was of high value to them in terms of what they invoiced. They were mostly undertaking simple tasks or spewing out information I had already ascertained from Dr Google. I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Whether we will want to or how the self interested medical unions respond is another matter. You had a good interaction with a real person, albeit on the internet, who decided on what diagnostics you needed, and from this you determine that everyone will be able to have their medical care provided by AI in the future? I can only assume you are a lawyer, because they are the only people who will benefit from that set up." Of course everyone thinks they are too important for their job to be taken over by a computer. And medical professionals are the most self important of them all. I agree actually that AI is just another tech bubble. But I’m not convinced that the medical profession is going to be immune to change, as much as it would like to be. It is after all what Our NHS is all about, self interested resistance to change. | |||
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"Well according to one poster on here we all just become carers for the old! Does the research talk about which types of jobs are at risk from automation and AI? “When considering the overall risk of automation, the three occupations with the highest probability of automation are waiters and waitresses, shelf fillers and elementary sales occupations, all of which are low skilled or routine. The three occupations at the lowest risk of automation are medical practitioners, higher education teaching professionals, and senior professionals of educational establishments. These occupations are all considered high skilled.” What’s the source of that? Sounds like total nonsense. There’s going to plenty of medical stuff that can be done by robots. Scanning people, automated responses to questions and symptoms etc. As for education, plenty of courses have been done online since the start of Covid and before, and many of them self serve, recorded etc. I would have thought lecturers are well under threat. If you think patients would give genuine answers to questions and be able to adequately explain their symptoms then I’m afraid you have no idea what a lot of a medical professional’s job is. Machine learning is not AI, and the current algorithmically based systems are unlikely to successfully produce an artificial general intelligence. AI is the latest fad that everyone is pinning their hopes on, it will be able to help in the medical field but it will not replace medical professionals in any meaningful capacity. I don’t agree with this. I recently had an online consultation with a GP. I paid privately for the service since as per usual service from Our NHS was not available. I spoke via online video chat to a very nice female doctor. She was UK based but actually there was probably no reason why she needed to be. And there will be a time when the person I talk to will be a computer and not a person. Similarly all of the subsequent scans could be automated with no human intervention, as could the interpretation of the results and the diagnosis and the prescription etc. Actually I found the value of the human interaction of very limited value, though it was of high value to them in terms of what they invoiced. They were mostly undertaking simple tasks or spewing out information I had already ascertained from Dr Google. I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Whether we will want to or how the self interested medical unions respond is another matter. You had a good interaction with a real person, albeit on the internet, who decided on what diagnostics you needed, and from this you determine that everyone will be able to have their medical care provided by AI in the future? I can only assume you are a lawyer, because they are the only people who will benefit from that set up. Of course everyone thinks they are too important for their job to be taken over by a computer. And medical professionals are the most self important of them all. I agree actually that AI is just another tech bubble. But I’m not convinced that the medical profession is going to be immune to change, as much as it would like to be. It is after all what Our NHS is all about, self interested resistance to change." Everyone is resistant to change, for health professionals this is often a very good thing. Medicine has to be evidence based and not changing unless the new way of doing things is proven to be better, is essential to patient health. This does not alter the fact that you having a consultation with a real person does not mean that AI will be able to provide a safe, effective, and efficient service to patients, especially not in the short to medium term. | |||
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" I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Didn’t you say “In my opinion AI is being massively over egged at the moment. I get endlessly bombarded with articles about it to my work account and most of them add up to a big zero. It seems to be an enormous bubble which we see now and again. We have seen major technological advances over the last couple of hundred years and all of them have come with predictions of mass unemployment and none of it has happened.” It’s nice that you have got so little to do with your time that you are excavating through my past posts looking for loopholes and inconsistencies. " Well ok very fortunate in that I control my own diary, so it’s really no hardship. | |||
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" I suspect in time a great deal of what medical staff do can be replaced. Didn’t you say “In my opinion AI is being massively over egged at the moment. I get endlessly bombarded with articles about it to my work account and most of them add up to a big zero. It seems to be an enormous bubble which we see now and again. We have seen major technological advances over the last couple of hundred years and all of them have come with predictions of mass unemployment and none of it has happened.” It’s nice that you have got so little to do with your time that you are excavating through my past posts looking for loopholes and inconsistencies. Well ok very fortunate in that I control my own diary, so it’s really no hardship. " Glad that you can slot me into your busy schedule. | |||
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