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"They agree they have a moral duty to contribute to compensation "once the extent of our responsibility is determined"" Rightly so.. Would still like to see those who knowingly prosecuted innocent loyal staff held to account if that is possible but suspect it'll never happen.. | |||
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"Watching this with interest. There may be a few posters here who may need to back track." Don't bet on it. You will have just misunderstood their posts  | |||
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"They agree they have a moral duty to contribute to compensation "once the extent of our responsibility is determined"" Moral duty??? WTAF…. Another example of the rich, privileged establishment apologising and throwing however much cash they feel like paying at the the problem, whilst ordinary people get prosecuted and jailed. This is just not right. The law needs changing so all these big nobs get to face WORSE punishment than ordinary people. Let’s turn the tables for the next few hundred years and see how the big nobs behave in high office when they could end up in prison for a very long time if they fuck up. | |||
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"They agree they have a moral duty to contribute to compensation "once the extent of our responsibility is determined" Moral duty??? WTAF…. Another example of the rich, privileged establishment apologising and throwing however much cash they feel like paying at the the problem, whilst ordinary people get prosecuted and jailed. This is just not right. The law needs changing so all these big nobs get to face WORSE punishment than ordinary people. Let’s turn the tables for the next few hundred years and see how the big nobs behave in high office when they could end up in prison for a very long time if they fuck up." To be fair, the question asked was "do you think you have a moral duty...?". Possibly put as the legalities have to be, perhaps, evidenced. | |||
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"It's been 30 years ... so it will carry on till most of those who suffered are dead, leading to no payout to the families " Horizon was installed in 1999. | |||
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"It's been 30 years ... so it will carry on till most of those who suffered are dead, leading to no payout to the families Horizon was installed in 1999." And there is a letter/memo from those involved in testing the system at the time raising concerns and saying Horizon was not fit for purpose. AND apparently the Japanese Govt lobbied the British Ambassador who lobbied Tony Blair’s govt to press ahead with Fujitsu’s Horizon system as to do otherwise might have wider ramifications. | |||
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" And there is a letter/memo from those involved in testing the system at the time raising concerns and saying Horizon was not fit for purpose. AND apparently the Japanese Govt lobbied the British Ambassador who lobbied Tony Blair’s govt to press ahead with Fujitsu’s Horizon system as to do otherwise might have wider ramifications." First hand direct knowledge of top level corruption within the #10 establishment in major, multi-billion IT projects around that time over here. Even tried whistle blowing. | |||
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" And there is a letter/memo from those involved in testing the system at the time raising concerns and saying Horizon was not fit for purpose. AND apparently the Japanese Govt lobbied the British Ambassador who lobbied Tony Blair’s govt to press ahead with Fujitsu’s Horizon system as to do otherwise might have wider ramifications. First hand direct knowledge of top level corruption within the #10 establishment in major, multi-billion IT projects around that time over here. Even tried whistle blowing." Care to elaborate? | |||
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""we did have bugs in the system and we did help the PO prosecute the sub postmasters and for that we are truly sorry"" That seems to be a very foolish thing to say, since it is basically an admission of perjury. But since a company can't give evidence, it'll be the staff that get the summonses. Is this the beginning of Fujitsu slowly pivoting to 'a few bad apples, not a systemic failure on Fujitsu's part'? | |||
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""we did have bugs in the system and we did help the PO prosecute the sub postmasters and for that we are truly sorry" That seems to be a very foolish thing to say, since it is basically an admission of perjury. But since a company can't give evidence, it'll be the staff that get the summonses. Is this the beginning of Fujitsu slowly pivoting to 'a few bad apples, not a systemic failure on Fujitsu's part'?" The way this playing out is very predictable. Fujitsu indicating they didn't do things without instruction, without saying it outright. Willing to throw some money in the pot, to prove loyalty and future programs of work, of which they are working on many. | |||
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" And there is a letter/memo from those involved in testing the system at the time raising concerns and saying Horizon was not fit for purpose. AND apparently the Japanese Govt lobbied the British Ambassador who lobbied Tony Blair’s govt to press ahead with Fujitsu’s Horizon system as to do otherwise might have wider ramifications. First hand direct knowledge of top level corruption within the #10 establishment in major, multi-billion IT projects around that time over here. Even tried whistle blowing. Care to elaborate?" No. Well. Hmm. A large and expensive system. Pre election. The company responsible for testing was not allowed to touch it, but was told if they pulled any people off, they would not be paid. They were a fig leaf only. The system was not switched on and functional for a number of reasons, but politically they needed to say it went live. So they switched on one feature, where the tester and "accepter" were cousins and there was never going to be a fair "go/no-go" decision (and the company officially contracted to test it had to sit on their hands). It "passed" and went live, and was used for one transaction... And was them held up as "a project that successfully went live", days before the election. Millions were wasted for no other reason than to save political face. Essentially theft/fraud. The project was famous for wasting billions and not being fit for purpose. The MD of the testing company was previously an IT manager in... The Post Office. He used to talk casually about people getting peerages for delivering government IT projects. You can believe this or not, but no more will be said. | |||
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"They agree they have a moral duty to contribute to compensation "once the extent of our responsibility is determined" Moral duty??? WTAF…. Another example of the rich, privileged establishment apologising and throwing however much cash they feel like paying at the the problem, whilst ordinary people get prosecuted and jailed. This is just not right. The law needs changing so all these big nobs get to face WORSE punishment than ordinary people. Let’s turn the tables for the next few hundred years and see how the big nobs behave in high office when they could end up in prison for a very long time if they fuck up." haha how u gona do that? A gov would have to pass those laws and neither the torys or labour are going to bring in laws that could affect the way they behave while there in office | |||
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" And there is a letter/memo from those involved in testing the system at the time raising concerns and saying Horizon was not fit for purpose. AND apparently the Japanese Govt lobbied the British Ambassador who lobbied Tony Blair’s govt to press ahead with Fujitsu’s Horizon system as to do otherwise might have wider ramifications. First hand direct knowledge of top level corruption within the #10 establishment in major, multi-billion IT projects around that time over here. Even tried whistle blowing. Care to elaborate? No. Well. Hmm. A large and expensive system. Pre election. The company responsible for testing was not allowed to touch it, but was told if they pulled any people off, they would not be paid. They were a fig leaf only. The system was not switched on and functional for a number of reasons, but politically they needed to say it went live. So they switched on one feature, where the tester and "accepter" were cousins and there was never going to be a fair "go/no-go" decision (and the company officially contracted to test it had to sit on their hands). It "passed" and went live, and was used for one transaction... And was them held up as "a project that successfully went live", days before the election. Millions were wasted for no other reason than to save political face. Essentially theft/fraud. The project was famous for wasting billions and not being fit for purpose. The MD of the testing company was previously an IT manager in... The Post Office. He used to talk casually about people getting peerages for delivering government IT projects. You can believe this or not, but no more will be said." I believe you and I think I know which system you are talking about. Wow! Just wow! | |||
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" And there is a letter/memo from those involved in testing the system at the time raising concerns and saying Horizon was not fit for purpose. AND apparently the Japanese Govt lobbied the British Ambassador who lobbied Tony Blair’s govt to press ahead with Fujitsu’s Horizon system as to do otherwise might have wider ramifications. First hand direct knowledge of top level corruption within the #10 establishment in major, multi-billion IT projects around that time over here. Even tried whistle blowing. Care to elaborate? No. Well. Hmm. A large and expensive system. Pre election. The company responsible for testing was not allowed to touch it, but was told if they pulled any people off, they would not be paid. They were a fig leaf only. The system was not switched on and functional for a number of reasons, but politically they needed to say it went live. So they switched on one feature, where the tester and "accepter" were cousins and there was never going to be a fair "go/no-go" decision (and the company officially contracted to test it had to sit on their hands). It "passed" and went live, and was used for one transaction... And was them held up as "a project that successfully went live", days before the election. Millions were wasted for no other reason than to save political face. Essentially theft/fraud. The project was famous for wasting billions and not being fit for purpose. The MD of the testing company was previously an IT manager in... The Post Office. He used to talk casually about people getting peerages for delivering government IT projects. You can believe this or not, but no more will be said. I believe you and I think I know which system you are talking about. Wow! Just wow!" This doesn’t surprise me at all. I’ve worked in public sector and seen how the private sector easily fleeces the incompetent UK government. I saw how Jeremy Hunts company was paid hundreds of millions by DfE and later sold the data to the British council and others - data that uk govt should have owned but they are so clueless at procurement and legals / contracts. I heard of someone I know flogging Learn Direct in Saudi recently - another one that cost the UK taxpayers 10s millions and then sold for £1 . Vendors used to run 72 hour events at the Piccadilly hotel with free bar. | |||
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" This doesn’t surprise me at all. I’ve worked in public sector and seen how the private sector easily fleeces the incompetent UK government. " The abovementioned project was a feeding frenzy for consultancies and private (and semi-private) companies. The only thing worse than government procurement in IT is government trying to do it themseves.  | |||
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"The ones who knew and watched ppl go to prison should be charged and jailed" Well yes, perverting the course of justice. They knowingly allowed someone else to take the blame for their fault and actively engaged in helping with the prosecution's. Not too mention the fact that had the TV show not brought it to the public's attention they would have happily kept shtum and said nowt. | |||
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"The ones who knew and watched ppl go to prison should be charged and jailed Well yes, perverting the course of justice. They knowingly allowed someone else to take the blame for their fault and actively engaged in helping with the prosecution's. Not too mention the fact that had the TV show not brought it to the public's attention they would have happily kept shtum and said nowt. "  | |||
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"The law needs changing so all these big nobs get to face WORSE punishment than ordinary people. Let’s turn the tables for the next few hundred years and see how the big nobs behave in high office when they could end up in prison for a very long time if they fuck up." Hubby says that a lot when this stuff happens. Higher authority means higher culpability. Harsher punishment should follow but it never does. Not until all their heads are on spikes at least.  | |||
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"It's been 30 years ... so it will carry on till most of those who suffered are dead, leading to no payout to the families Horizon was installed in 1999." The vast majority of the news absorbing British public have only recently been aware of the scandal in recent months. Private Eye readers, however, were made aware of serious misgivings about Horizon almost from the word go. Nobody in authority could not have been aware of the problems from a very early stage. Three cheers for investigative journalists. Unfortunately their concerns were ignored and whitewashed over. At least they tried on behalf of those affected. Not only did they try but they repeated their concerns at every opportunity for many years. I know because of being a regular reader. Had it not been for Private Eye not giving up, things might still have been covered up even until now. | |||
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"Vile irony of Fujitsu using the word moral now.. Cunts" It was in the question. | |||
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"Vile irony of Fujitsu using the word moral now.. Cunts It was in the question." I know, I saw the press release 
My point being that only now they've discovered morals, after innocent people have been properly fucked over.. | |||
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"Vile irony of Fujitsu using the word moral now.. Cunts It was in the question. I know, I saw the press release
My point being that only now they've discovered morals, after innocent people have been properly fucked over.."Are they saying they have found morals or are they saying, we are not legally bound to pay out, but we will, without saying that directly? I feel it is the latter... | |||
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"Vile irony of Fujitsu using the word moral now.. Cunts It was in the question. I know, I saw the press release
My point being that only now they've discovered morals, after innocent people have been properly fucked over..
Are they saying they have found morals or are they saying, we are not legally bound to pay out, but we will, without saying that directly?
I feel it is the latter..."It's public relations bs, same when the tired old clichés will no doubt be trotted about along the lines of 'different culture, lessons have been learned' etc.. They'll say whatever suits to protect the share price and keep the investors happy but most people on the back of what's been dragged out this far have already made their minds up.. | |||
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"Vile irony of Fujitsu using the word moral now.. Cunts It was in the question. I know, I saw the press release
My point being that only now they've discovered morals, after innocent people have been properly fucked over..
Are they saying they have found morals or are they saying, we are not legally bound to pay out, but we will, without saying that directly?
I feel it is the latter...
It's public relations bs, same when the tired old clichés will no doubt be trotted about along the lines of 'different culture, lessons have been learned' etc..
They'll say whatever suits to protect the share price and keep the investors happy but most people on the back of what's been dragged out this far have already made their minds up.."Without doubt they will, is that a shock to you? I really can’t emphasise enough it is the PO who called the shots. | |||
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"Vile irony of Fujitsu using the word moral now.. Cunts It was in the question. I know, I saw the press release
My point being that only now they've discovered morals, after innocent people have been properly fucked over..
Are they saying they have found morals or are they saying, we are not legally bound to pay out, but we will, without saying that directly?
I feel it is the latter...
It's public relations bs, same when the tired old clichés will no doubt be trotted about along the lines of 'different culture, lessons have been learned' etc..
They'll say whatever suits to protect the share price and keep the investors happy but most people on the back of what's been dragged out this far have already made their minds up..
Without doubt they will, is that a shock to you?
I really can’t emphasise enough it is the PO who called the shots. "Not at all.. I think we're not going to agree on the latter point, and if what's been shown in Fujitsu's culpability in the treatment and prosecutions already isn't enough for you that's your choice .. | |||
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