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"Rishi Sunak says he wants to reduce workers’ taxes this year and may cut benefits to pay for it. He did not say whose benefits will be cut What should be cut in the March budget. " Late to the party, I've started a thread about this AND cuts to the public sector, that Sunak calls "control". | |||
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"Would rather they gave workers in nhs and rail ect a fair wage rise,rather than have a small tax cut"  | |||
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"Would rather they gave workers in nhs and rail ect a fair wage rise,rather than have a small tax cut" It already has been more than fair. | |||
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"Would rather they gave workers in nhs and rail ect a fair wage rise,rather than have a small tax cut It already has been more than fair." Except it hasn't  | |||
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"Would rather they gave workers in nhs and rail ect a fair wage rise,rather than have a small tax cut It already has been more than fair." BS | |||
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"Would rather they gave workers in nhs and rail ect a fair wage rise,rather than have a small tax cut It already has been more than fair." seems we are not of the same opinion | |||
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"Easy way of finding extra cash, don't give politicians a pay rise. After all they don't really deserve one in my eyes, how much money would that put back in the pot for others." Actually not that much as only c.600 of them. May not be a popular view but I want to see MPs and Ministers receive a significant pay rise but... 1. No second jobs (until they have delivered a minimum (high) threshold of parliamentary and constituency business). 2. Significant clamp down on expenses. 3. No home flipping (their home must be in their constituency). 4. Creation of an aparthotel(s) in Westminster to house all MPs when on parliamentary business with apartment assigned to each constituency. 5. To be an MP you must live in the constituency you represent for at least 3 years before being nominated. 6. No Minister allowed to have direct or significant ownership of a business that will benefit from govt policy changes or contracts that Minister has direct involvement with. 7. No Minister allowed to join a business that benefitted from contracts the Minister had direct involvement with (ie their dept) for 5 years after leaving govt. This is all intended to attract good candidates (high pay) rather than those seeing it as an opportunity to line their pockets. | |||
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"Easy way of finding extra cash, don't give politicians a pay rise. After all they don't really deserve one in my eyes, how much money would that put back in the pot for others." A drop in the ocean compared to the amount of money wasted by the NHS and local councils  | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year " I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year " “Just run it through. The computer will say ‘No, it wouldn’t help to kill all the poor, and I’ll stop going on about it.” We're getting closer and closer to a well known Mitchel and Webb sketch. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. " They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year" "“Just run it through. The computer will say ‘No, it wouldn’t help to kill all the poor, and I’ll stop going on about it.” We're getting closer and closer to a well known Mitchel and Webb sketch." "Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter." I don't think that is enough, tasks in the community that would be of benefit to everyone, including the people carrying out the tasks. I'm a consultant (not medical before you start with the questions ) working for myself and I can have periods when I decide I'm not going to work for 2 - 3 months, it can be tough sometimes to get back into the swing of things. I would imagine being out of work is going to be very similar, get used to a routine and lose the energy to start looking. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. " Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave?" If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave?" I do. Anything ever run by the government has been an unmitigated disaster : mines, steel, cars, telecoms, NHS........you name it. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. " Interesting idea and I can see the whole “by actually working it keeps you in the mindset of working to receive money rather do nothing making transition to job easier”. Why not ho further though? How about mandatory retraining and apprenticeships? If the UK lacks sufficient skills in certain trades (ergo there are unfilled jobs) then train people up for those jobs? Geography will of course matter (some areas just have no jobs). One thing I want to see though (not saying you are saying this) is to remove the stigmatisation of people being out of work. While there are certainly some for whom it becomes a lifestyle, there are others who have problems or are just unlucky. Not everyone out of work is skiving lazy bastard. However, for this to succeed (work for you benefits) we meed employers willing to take these people on (although isn’t that giving them a job do erm...?) and a dramatic ramp up of apprenticeships. Actually you need to go back further and change education to bring back a balance between academic and vocational education. Why can’t there be GCSE plumbing or brick laying or carpentry? We have Computer Science but what about IT support skills? What about basic engineering to fix and maintain stuff? Bring back technical colleges and polytechnics. Not everything is or should be a university. While there is merit in education for pure learning and knowledge sake, it doesn’t suit everyone and there are plenty of kids who leave school at 16 who should be equipped to work. | |||
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" How about mandatory retraining and apprenticeships? " Another of what you say makes perfect sense, I wanted to pick up on this though. By making something mandatory, it'll be picked up by the 'sounds like forced labour' lot. It's like you said in the other thread, we're getting ourselves in a right pickle. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. Interesting idea and I can see the whole “by actually working it keeps you in the mindset of working to receive money rather do nothing making transition to job easier”. Why not ho further though? How about mandatory retraining and apprenticeships? If the UK lacks sufficient skills in certain trades (ergo there are unfilled jobs) then train people up for those jobs? Geography will of course matter (some areas just have no jobs). One thing I want to see though (not saying you are saying this) is to remove the stigmatisation of people being out of work. While there are certainly some for whom it becomes a lifestyle, there are others who have problems or are just unlucky. Not everyone out of work is skiving lazy bastard. However, for this to succeed (work for you benefits) we meed employers willing to take these people on (although isn’t that giving them a job do erm...?) and a dramatic ramp up of apprenticeships. Actually you need to go back further and change education to bring back a balance between academic and vocational education. Why can’t there be GCSE plumbing or brick laying or carpentry? We have Computer Science but what about IT support skills? What about basic engineering to fix and maintain stuff? Bring back technical colleges and polytechnics. Not everything is or should be a university. While there is merit in education for pure learning and knowledge sake, it doesn’t suit everyone and there are plenty of kids who leave school at 16 who should be equipped to work." I think this falls in line with what you are saying too. We have skills shortages in construction post brexit and other areas, this is exactly the right time to be putting together training and encouraging people who are out of work to train and qualify for trades and services impacted. I do not like the idea of assisted housing on new estates, it has many drawbacks far to many to go into here. However, I think instead of building small groups of housing for people who can only qualify to live there if they can't afford basic rent in the area, in amongst people who have the means for mortgages that push upwards of 800k, local councils should be providing separate land for assisted housing, and where possible have people wanting to learn trades work on the builds under the guidance and support of the developers. I think this approach would bring so many benefits above dropping the housing problem in the laps of developers. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year “Just run it through. The computer will say ‘No, it wouldn’t help to kill all the poor, and I’ll stop going on about it.” We're getting closer and closer to a well known Mitchel and Webb sketch. "Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch." Different sketch. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree?" I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. " There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter. I don't think that is enough, tasks in the community that would be of benefit to everyone, including the people carrying out the tasks. I'm a consultant (not medical before you start with the questions ) working for myself and I can have periods when I decide I'm not going to work for 2 - 3 months, it can be tough sometimes to get back into the swing of things. I would imagine being out of work is going to be very similar, get used to a routine and lose the energy to start looking."Don't worry, I could tell you aren't a medical consultant  | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree?" No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. Interesting idea and I can see the whole “by actually working it keeps you in the mindset of working to receive money rather do nothing making transition to job easier”. Why not ho further though? How about mandatory retraining and apprenticeships? If the UK lacks sufficient skills in certain trades (ergo there are unfilled jobs) then train people up for those jobs? Geography will of course matter (some areas just have no jobs). One thing I want to see though (not saying you are saying this) is to remove the stigmatisation of people being out of work. While there are certainly some for whom it becomes a lifestyle, there are others who have problems or are just unlucky. Not everyone out of work is skiving lazy bastard. However, for this to succeed (work for you benefits) we meed employers willing to take these people on (although isn’t that giving them a job do erm...?) and a dramatic ramp up of apprenticeships. Actually you need to go back further and change education to bring back a balance between academic and vocational education. Why can’t there be GCSE plumbing or brick laying or carpentry? We have Computer Science but what about IT support skills? What about basic engineering to fix and maintain stuff? Bring back technical colleges and polytechnics. Not everything is or should be a university. While there is merit in education for pure learning and knowledge sake, it doesn’t suit everyone and there are plenty of kids who leave school at 16 who should be equipped to work." Education doesn't end at 16. A child has to continue their education, or take on, guess what, apprenticeships/vocational qualifications etc. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. Interesting idea and I can see the whole “by actually working it keeps you in the mindset of working to receive money rather do nothing making transition to job easier”. Why not ho further though? How about mandatory retraining and apprenticeships? If the UK lacks sufficient skills in certain trades (ergo there are unfilled jobs) then train people up for those jobs? Geography will of course matter (some areas just have no jobs). One thing I want to see though (not saying you are saying this) is to remove the stigmatisation of people being out of work. While there are certainly some for whom it becomes a lifestyle, there are others who have problems or are just unlucky. Not everyone out of work is skiving lazy bastard. However, for this to succeed (work for you benefits) we meed employers willing to take these people on (although isn’t that giving them a job do erm...?) and a dramatic ramp up of apprenticeships. Actually you need to go back further and change education to bring back a balance between academic and vocational education. Why can’t there be GCSE plumbing or brick laying or carpentry? We have Computer Science but what about IT support skills? What about basic engineering to fix and maintain stuff? Bring back technical colleges and polytechnics. Not everything is or should be a university. While there is merit in education for pure learning and knowledge sake, it doesn’t suit everyone and there are plenty of kids who leave school at 16 who should be equipped to work. Education doesn't end at 16. A child has to continue their education, or take on, guess what, apprenticeships/vocational qualifications etc." Are you sure? I thought 16 yr olds could also go out to work? They did when I was 16. I did A Levels and Uni but had school friends who were working from 16. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism." Don't employ racists problem solved, there are many tools to out people from the get go. Next | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter. I don't think that is enough, tasks in the community that would be of benefit to everyone, including the people carrying out the tasks. I'm a consultant (not medical before you start with the questions ) working for myself and I can have periods when I decide I'm not going to work for 2 - 3 months, it can be tough sometimes to get back into the swing of things. I would imagine being out of work is going to be very similar, get used to a routine and lose the energy to start looking.
Don't worry, I could tell you aren't a medical consultant "How!
Is it my love of the NHS and how it is managed, the near criminal way it operates in silos, or | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch." "Different sketch." Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism. Don't employ racists problem solved, there are many tools to out people from the get go. Next "The trouble is that racists rarely ever think they are racist, they just speak as they find, talk common sense, everyone else is a snowflake etc. | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch. Different sketch. Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of." Are we the baddies? | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered "Nope. Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not. | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch. Different sketch. Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of." I did. You replied to it. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. Interesting idea and I can see the whole “by actually working it keeps you in the mindset of working to receive money rather do nothing making transition to job easier”. Why not ho further though? How about mandatory retraining and apprenticeships? If the UK lacks sufficient skills in certain trades (ergo there are unfilled jobs) then train people up for those jobs? Geography will of course matter (some areas just have no jobs). One thing I want to see though (not saying you are saying this) is to remove the stigmatisation of people being out of work. While there are certainly some for whom it becomes a lifestyle, there are others who have problems or are just unlucky. Not everyone out of work is skiving lazy bastard. However, for this to succeed (work for you benefits) we meed employers willing to take these people on (although isn’t that giving them a job do erm...?) and a dramatic ramp up of apprenticeships. Actually you need to go back further and change education to bring back a balance between academic and vocational education. Why can’t there be GCSE plumbing or brick laying or carpentry? We have Computer Science but what about IT support skills? What about basic engineering to fix and maintain stuff? Bring back technical colleges and polytechnics. Not everything is or should be a university. While there is merit in education for pure learning and knowledge sake, it doesn’t suit everyone and there are plenty of kids who leave school at 16 who should be equipped to work. Education doesn't end at 16. A child has to continue their education, or take on, guess what, apprenticeships/vocational qualifications etc. Are you sure? I thought 16 yr olds could also go out to work? They did when I was 16. I did A Levels and Uni but had school friends who were working from 16." My fourth escaped it, my fifth didn't. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism. Don't employ racists problem solved, there are many tools to out people from the get go. Next "It's institutionalised. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter. I don't think that is enough, tasks in the community that would be of benefit to everyone, including the people carrying out the tasks. I'm a consultant (not medical before you start with the questions ) working for myself and I can have periods when I decide I'm not going to work for 2 - 3 months, it can be tough sometimes to get back into the swing of things. I would imagine being out of work is going to be very similar, get used to a routine and lose the energy to start looking.
Don't worry, I could tell you aren't a medical consultant
How!
Is it my love of the NHS and how it is managed, the near criminal way it operates in silos, or "Uni is trying to break that down by healthcare students learning together. | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch." "Different sketch." "Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of." "I did. You replied to it." I finally managed to work out what you were saying, and located the sketch. I've not seen it before. I might take issue with your use of the phrase "well known". | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch. Different sketch. Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of. I did. You replied to it. I finally managed to work out what you were saying, and located the sketch. I've not seen it before. I might take issue with your use of the phrase "well known"." One of the dictionary definitions of "well-known" is: "generally or widely known". If I had hyphenated my original "well known" to be "well-known" would that have been better? | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch." "Different sketch." "Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of." "I did. You replied to it." "I finally managed to work out what you were saying, and located the sketch. I've not seen it before. I might take issue with your use of the phrase "well known"." "One of the dictionary definitions of "well-known" is: "generally or widely known". If I had hyphenated my original "well known" to be "well-known" would that have been better?" No. I was saying that I was unaware of the sketch, as was another poster, and it took me ages to track it down on the internet. I don't think it's as well-known as you think it is. But thanks for bringing it to my attention. I always enjoy a good bit of comedy. | |||
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""Computer Says No" was a Little Britain sketch. Different sketch. Well don't keep us all in suspense, tell us which sketch you're thinking of. I did. You replied to it. I finally managed to work out what you were saying, and located the sketch. I've not seen it before. I might take issue with your use of the phrase "well known". One of the dictionary definitions of "well-known" is: "generally or widely known". If I had hyphenated my original "well known" to be "well-known" would that have been better? No. I was saying that I was unaware of the sketch, as was another poster, and it took me ages to track it down on the internet. I don't think it's as well-known as you think it is. But thanks for bringing it to my attention. I always enjoy a good bit of comedy."  | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not."You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism. Don't employ racists problem solved, there are many tools to out people from the get go. Next
It's institutionalised."Ah, that old chestnut, from top to bottom, I say. Is it the whole of the NHS and its people, or bits of it? Like I said there are tools specifically designed to out people with bad intent. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission "Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed. "I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism." | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
"Still triggered? | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered? "I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered?
I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. "You are struggling with this aren’t you? Let’s break it down. You are replying to a comment I made to another poster, that I said take out the word woke from a post as that word triggers leftists. The idea was to remove the word that could potentially upset them and look at the content from a new view point, after all it is a well known trigger word, and one you will not find I use in the positive or negative as it has been taken away from its original meaning. However you dived in with your usual racism quotes, making everything about how you think and feel, and diluting the thread. It reminds me of that chant, shame on you, it is used most of the time to drown out an opposing view. If you had read the post for what it was maybe you could have refrained from derailing or misinterpreting my comments. If in doubt ask me in a civilised way and I will be more than happy to explain, that is the beauty of a forum. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter. I don't think that is enough, tasks in the community that would be of benefit to everyone, including the people carrying out the tasks. I'm a consultant (not medical before you start with the questions ) working for myself and I can have periods when I decide I'm not going to work for 2 - 3 months, it can be tough sometimes to get back into the swing of things. I would imagine being out of work is going to be very similar, get used to a routine and lose the energy to start looking.
Don't worry, I could tell you aren't a medical consultant "Could you tell because he wasn't moonlighting at the Spire? | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism. Don't employ racists problem solved, there are many tools to out people from the get go. Next
The trouble is that racists rarely ever think they are racist, they just speak as they find, talk common sense, everyone else is a snowflake etc."This is exactly The Epimenides paradox and we're heading down the road of some serious philosophy shit. | |||
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"Easy way of finding extra cash, don't give politicians a pay rise. After all they don't really deserve one in my eyes, how much money would that put back in the pot for others. Actually not that much as only c.600 of them. May not be a popular view but I want to see MPs and Ministers receive a significant pay rise but... 1. No second jobs (until they have delivered a minimum (high) threshold of parliamentary and constituency business). 2. Significant clamp down on expenses. 3. No home flipping (their home must be in their constituency). 4. Creation of an aparthotel(s) in Westminster to house all MPs when on parliamentary business with apartment assigned to each constituency. 5. To be an MP you must live in the constituency you represent for at least 3 years before being nominated. 6. No Minister allowed to have direct or significant ownership of a business that will benefit from govt policy changes or contracts that Minister has direct involvement with. 7. No Minister allowed to join a business that benefitted from contracts the Minister had direct involvement with (ie their dept) for 5 years after leaving govt. This is all intended to attract good candidates (high pay) rather than those seeing it as an opportunity to line their pockets." Great Post. | |||
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"I think the job seekers allowance should be stopped. That would save millions each year I wouldn't suggest stopping it but would suggest it comes with a job role. Encourage people who otherwise would take the money and do nothing, or take the money and work on the side to recognise they will need to work for the money. It wouldn't be full time work and should be min wage, working hours should equal the benefit taken. They have to commit to be looking for work. Their payments £84 will be stopped or reduced if commitments not met. If JSA is as stringent as UC, they have to declare every job gone for and details thereafter." Its a pretty low bar to prove you have been looking for work. The burden of proof is really low nothing like UC | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered?
I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism.
You are struggling with this aren’t you?
Let’s break it down. You are replying to a comment I made to another poster, that I said take out the word woke from a post as that word triggers leftists.
The idea was to remove the word that could potentially upset them and look at the content from a new view point, after all it is a well known trigger word, and one you will not find I use in the positive or negative as it has been taken away from its original meaning.
However you dived in with your usual racism quotes, making everything about how you think and feel, and diluting the thread. It reminds me of that chant, shame on you, it is used most of the time to drown out an opposing view.
If you had read the post for what it was maybe you could have refrained from derailing or misinterpreting my comments. If in doubt ask me in a civilised way and I will be more than happy to explain, that is the beauty of a forum."***************************************** Some intelligence and clarification there, at last. On my own behalf, thanks for the post. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered?
I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism.
You are struggling with this aren’t you?
"Nope " Let’s break it down. " Sure, let's see where this goes. " You are replying to a comment I made to another poster, that I said take out the word woke from a post as that word triggers leftists. " It doesn't, you've got it backwards. People who stand up to social injustice, especially racism, trigger certain other people. " The idea was to remove the word that could potentially upset them and look at the content from a new view point, after all it is a well known trigger word, and one you will not find I use in the positive or negative as it has been taken away from its original meaning. However you dived in with your usual racism quotes, " Not mine, the dictionary. " making everything about how you think and feel, " Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that. " and diluting the thread. It reminds me of that chant, shame on you, it is used most of the time to drown out an opposing view. If you had read the post for what it was maybe you could have refrained from derailing or misinterpreting my comments. If in doubt ask me in a civilised way and I will be more than happy to explain, that is the beauty of a forum." | |||
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""Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that" ****************************************** So, if the above quote be true, just WHERE do these 'ideas' originate.......??" Which ideas are you asking about? The definition of "woke" comes from the dictionary. Or the idea that the other chap I replied to is a load of made up nonsense to fit a bizarre idea that this mythical group of people that no one has ever seen or heard of that spend their time being envious of rich people, that are triggered by people who are triggered by people who are aware of social injustice, especially racism? | |||
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""Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that" ****************************************** So, if the above quote be true, just WHERE do these 'ideas' originate.......?? Which ideas are you asking about? The definition of "woke" comes from the dictionary. Or the idea that the other chap I replied to is a load of made up nonsense to fit a bizarre idea that this mythical group of people that no one has ever seen or heard of that spend their time being envious of rich people, that are triggered by people who are triggered by people who are aware of social injustice, especially racism?" ***************************************** There's a particular person regularly on the forum who enjoys baiting others. Pointless to reply to the person, as I have seen others attempt many times, so, I cannot qualify any direct response as I have far too much respect for myself and even less time to do so. | |||
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""Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that" ****************************************** So, if the above quote be true, just WHERE do these 'ideas' originate.......?? Which ideas are you asking about? The definition of "woke" comes from the dictionary. Or the idea that the other chap I replied to is a load of made up nonsense to fit a bizarre idea that this mythical group of people that no one has ever seen or heard of that spend their time being envious of rich people, that are triggered by people who are triggered by people who are aware of social injustice, especially racism? ***************************************** There's a particular person regularly on the forum who enjoys baiting others. Pointless to reply to the person, as I have seen others attempt many times, so, I cannot qualify any direct response as I have far too much respect for myself and even less time to do so. " Yet the green arrow shows you follow me around the forums. Most of your posts are some attempt to insult me. I usually ignore you. I'll go back to that plan. | |||
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"Easy way of finding extra cash, don't give politicians a pay rise. After all they don't really deserve one in my eyes, how much money would that put back in the pot for others. Actually not that much as only c.600 of them. May not be a popular view but I want to see MPs and Ministers receive a significant pay rise but... 1. No second jobs (until they have delivered a minimum (high) threshold of parliamentary and constituency business). 2. Significant clamp down on expenses. 3. No home flipping (their home must be in their constituency). 4. Creation of an aparthotel(s) in Westminster to house all MPs when on parliamentary business with apartment assigned to each constituency. 5. To be an MP you must live in the constituency you represent for at least 3 years before being nominated. 6. No Minister allowed to have direct or significant ownership of a business that will benefit from govt policy changes or contracts that Minister has direct involvement with. 7. No Minister allowed to join a business that benefitted from contracts the Minister had direct involvement with (ie their dept) for 5 years after leaving govt. This is all intended to attract good candidates (high pay) rather than those seeing it as an opportunity to line their pockets. Great Post." Good idea but it won't happen as they don't stand to gain from it. I worked on the refurbishment of County Hall over the themes for Westminster would have been a good place to houes MP's. S are you sergesting the tax payer pays for 650 apartments for MP's to use if they are in London guess its just under that if you tack out downing Street. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered?
I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism.
You are struggling with this aren’t you?
Nope
Let’s break it down.
Sure, let's see where this goes.
You are replying to a comment I made to another poster, that I said take out the word woke from a post as that word triggers leftists.
It doesn't, you've got it backwards. People who stand up to social injustice, especially racism, trigger certain other people.
The idea was to remove the word that could potentially upset them and look at the content from a new view point, after all it is a well known trigger word, and one you will not find I use in the positive or negative as it has been taken away from its original meaning.
However you dived in with your usual racism quotes,
Not mine, the dictionary.
making everything about how you think and feel,
Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that.
and diluting the thread. It reminds me of that chant, shame on you, it is used most of the time to drown out an opposing view.
If you had read the post for what it was maybe you could have refrained from derailing or misinterpreting my comments. If in doubt ask me in a civilised way and I will be more than happy to explain, that is the beauty of a forum.
"I can't help you understand any further. | |||
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"Easy way of finding extra cash, don't give politicians a pay rise. After all they don't really deserve one in my eyes, how much money would that put back in the pot for others. A drop in the ocean compared to the amount of money wasted by the NHS and local councils "I was getting at the fact they give themselves a pay rise, while saying we can't afford to give others one. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered?
I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism.
You are struggling with this aren’t you?
Nope
Let’s break it down.
Sure, let's see where this goes.
You are replying to a comment I made to another poster, that I said take out the word woke from a post as that word triggers leftists.
It doesn't, you've got it backwards. People who stand up to social injustice, especially racism, trigger certain other people.
The idea was to remove the word that could potentially upset them and look at the content from a new view point, after all it is a well known trigger word, and one you will not find I use in the positive or negative as it has been taken away from its original meaning.
However you dived in with your usual racism quotes,
Not mine, the dictionary.
making everything about how you think and feel,
Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that.
and diluting the thread. It reminds me of that chant, shame on you, it is used most of the time to drown out an opposing view.
If you had read the post for what it was maybe you could have refrained from derailing or misinterpreting my comments. If in doubt ask me in a civilised way and I will be more than happy to explain, that is the beauty of a forum.
I can't help you understand any further."I don't know what it is that you think I don't understand. The situation seems clear to me. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave?" Yes ,because ot has shareholders and investors to answer to. The public sector, especially the NHS and local authorities are bloated with layer after layer of middle management box tickers . So much financial waste goes on these people. The private sector, because it is answerable to shareholders and investors could never get away with wasting so much money. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism." I would rather money is spent on nurses and doctors ,then box ticking exercises . | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists". More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism. There are a lot of discussion points above and you pick out the post with woke in it, Are you triggered
Nope.
Maybe you can lay out which of your points were allowed to respond to and which we're not.
You reply to what you want, when you want, you have my permission
Excellent. Thank you. Then back to the point with a grammatical error on my behalf fixed.
"I wouldn't say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism."
Still triggered?
I would say it "triggers" the people you label as "leftists".
More that it self labels those who think that the problem is anyone who is aware of social injustice, especially racism.
You are struggling with this aren’t you?
Nope
Let’s break it down.
Sure, let's see where this goes.
You are replying to a comment I made to another poster, that I said take out the word woke from a post as that word triggers leftists.
It doesn't, you've got it backwards. People who stand up to social injustice, especially racism, trigger certain other people.
The idea was to remove the word that could potentially upset them and look at the content from a new view point, after all it is a well known trigger word, and one you will not find I use in the positive or negative as it has been taken away from its original meaning.
However you dived in with your usual racism quotes,
Not mine, the dictionary.
making everything about how you think and feel,
Absolutely nothing to do with how I think and feel. I have absolutely no idea why you would think that.
and diluting the thread. It reminds me of that chant, shame on you, it is used most of the time to drown out an opposing view.
If you had read the post for what it was maybe you could have refrained from derailing or misinterpreting my comments. If in doubt ask me in a civilised way and I will be more than happy to explain, that is the beauty of a forum.
I can't help you understand any further.
I don't know what it is that you think I don't understand. The situation seems clear to me."which is why I can't help you any further. | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? If you take out the word woke, which triggers every single leftist in the country, he might have a point wouldn't you agree? No, the diversity training is required. The NHS is riddled with racism. I would rather money is spent on nurses and doctors ,then box ticking exercises ." What makes you think they are box ticking exercises? | |||
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"Maybe stopping spending £8m a DAY on hotels for asylum seekers would be a good way to save money . Or stop spending millions every year on box ticking , woke NHS jobs like diversity co-ordinators and diversity training courses for NHS staff ,and layers and layers of box ticking middle management. Do you think the private sector has a better idea when it comes to management, Dave? Yes ,because ot has shareholders and investors to answer to. The public sector, especially the NHS and local authorities are bloated with layer after layer of middle management box tickers . So much financial waste goes on these people. The private sector, because it is answerable to shareholders and investors could never get away with wasting so much money. " Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average? (That figure goes up even further if you don’t count the clinicians in managerial roles.) | |||
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"Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average?" That would greatly surprise me. Can you link to any figures? | |||
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"Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average? That would greatly surprise me. Can you link to any figures?" If you Google ‘what percentage of NHS staff are managers’ you’ll find loads of results but the top one states: ‘Approximately 3% of staff in NHS hospitals are employed in management roles and this is a much lower level than in the economy overall in England, where 11% of staff are employed in management roles’ So it would appear it’s closer to 4 times more managers, percentage wise in the private sector. | |||
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"Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average? That would greatly surprise me. Can you link to any figures? If you Google ‘what percentage of NHS staff are managers’ you’ll find loads of results but the top one states: ‘Approximately 3% of staff in NHS hospitals are employed in management roles and this is a much lower level than in the economy overall in England, where 11% of staff are employed in management roles’ So it would appear it’s closer to 4 times more managers, percentage wise in the private sector." There was an anniversary programme on there BBC hosted by Dr Xander whatshis face. One of the things that struck me was his declaration that there weren't enough managers in the NHS. Not enough staff, full stop. | |||
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"Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average? That would greatly surprise me. Can you link to any figures? If you Google ‘what percentage of NHS staff are managers’ you’ll find loads of results but the top one states: ‘Approximately 3% of staff in NHS hospitals are employed in management roles and this is a much lower level than in the economy overall in England, where 11% of staff are employed in management roles’ So it would appear it’s closer to 4 times more managers, percentage wise in the private sector. There was an anniversary programme on there BBC hosted by Dr Xander whatshis face. One of the things that struck me was his declaration that there weren't enough managers in the NHS. Not enough staff, full stop." Let’s be clear, there are some terrible managers in the NHS, and some of those are clinicians. However the majority of managers in the NHS are ineffective because they have far too much to do. Good managers eventually get frustrated and burned out, they vote with their feet and the NHS is left with bad managers who are in their roles purely because they are hard enough to cope with the stress. These managers then promote people in their own image. Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. | |||
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"Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average? That would greatly surprise me. Can you link to any figures? If you Google ‘what percentage of NHS staff are managers’ you’ll find loads of results but the top one states: ‘Approximately 3% of staff in NHS hospitals are employed in management roles and this is a much lower level than in the economy overall in England, where 11% of staff are employed in management roles’ So it would appear it’s closer to 4 times more managers, percentage wise in the private sector. There was an anniversary programme on there BBC hosted by Dr Xander whatshis face. One of the things that struck me was his declaration that there weren't enough managers in the NHS. Not enough staff, full stop. Let’s be clear, there are some terrible managers in the NHS, and some of those are clinicians. However the majority of managers in the NHS are ineffective because they have far too much to do. Good managers eventually get frustrated and burned out, they vote with their feet and the NHS is left with bad managers who are in their roles purely because they are hard enough to cope with the stress. These managers then promote people in their own image. Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients." I certainly cannot disagree as the turnover of staff, again in all roles, is high. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients." I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. | |||
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"Would it surprise you to learn that private companies have 3 times more managers as a percentage of the workforce than the NHS, on average? That would greatly surprise me. Can you link to any figures? If you Google ‘what percentage of NHS staff are managers’ you’ll find loads of results but the top one states: ‘Approximately 3% of staff in NHS hospitals are employed in management roles and this is a much lower level than in the economy overall in England, where 11% of staff are employed in management roles’ So it would appear it’s closer to 4 times more managers, percentage wise in the private sector. There was an anniversary programme on there BBC hosted by Dr Xander whatshis face. One of the things that struck me was his declaration that there weren't enough managers in the NHS. Not enough staff, full stop. Let’s be clear, there are some terrible managers in the NHS, and some of those are clinicians. However the majority of managers in the NHS are ineffective because they have far too much to do. Good managers eventually get frustrated and burned out, they vote with their feet and the NHS is left with bad managers who are in their roles purely because they are hard enough to cope with the stress. These managers then promote people in their own image. Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I certainly cannot disagree as the turnover of staff, again in all roles, is high." The insidious talk of NHS ‘back office staff’ and managers being a waste of money is something this government and its friends in the press have really pushed. Every large organisation needs admin and management, and the NHS is a massive organisation. What the private sector shows us is how valuable admin and management is, especially when it comes to efficiency. This is where the public sector can really learn from the private sector. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner." That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers." I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'." I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative." Fair. We do hear about 'too many managers'. I'd be interested in knowing this definition of managers. ie. Is a sister or charge nurse classed as a manager in NHS, And conversely is a 'team leader' classed as a manager in private sector. The reason I'm interested is I can't actually believe the difference. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative. Fair. We do hear about 'too many managers'. I'd be interested in knowing this definition of managers. ie. Is a sister or charge nurse classed as a manager in NHS, And conversely is a 'team leader' classed as a manager in private sector. The reason I'm interested is I can't actually believe the difference. " The LSE describes it as ‘people in management roles’ which is, I suppose, open to interpretation but in the NHS it would certainly include Sisters who are officially called ‘ward managers’. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative. Fair. We do hear about 'too many managers'. I'd be interested in knowing this definition of managers. ie. Is a sister or charge nurse classed as a manager in NHS, And conversely is a 'team leader' classed as a manager in private sector. The reason I'm interested is I can't actually believe the difference. The LSE describes it as ‘people in management roles’ which is, I suppose, open to interpretation but in the NHS it would certainly include Sisters who are officially called ‘ward managers’." I found this... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK259404/ Composition and capacity The official census shows that around 3% of NHS employees are managers and senior managers. In contrast, when middle managers and those holding hybrid clinical-managerial roles are included, the actual proportion of staff in an acute trust with managerial responsibilities is around 30%. Management is a widely distributed function, not confined to a small cadre or elite. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers." Getting the country on a diet would help a lot more than more nhs managers. Nhs overriden with self inflicted problems that salad dodgers have brought on themselves. “Britain’s weight problem costs almost £100bn a year, analysis suggests, prompting calls for a government crackdown on unhealthy food and a drive to promote fresh ingredients. The spiralling cost shows that the growing prevalence of people being overweight is “an absolute public health disaster”, said Henry Dimbleby, the government’s former adviser on food. The cost has soared from £58bn in 2020 to £98bn, according to the Tony Blair Institute. The costs to people affected rose from £45.2bn to £63.1bn a year, and the costs to the NHS from £10.8bn to £19.2bn, according to modelling undertaken for the thinktank by Frontier Economics.” Add all the unhealthy food the government is not legislating against, cigarettes, vapes etc Finger pointing at the nhs while our retard society can’t help themselves. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative. Fair. We do hear about 'too many managers'. I'd be interested in knowing this definition of managers. ie. Is a sister or charge nurse classed as a manager in NHS, And conversely is a 'team leader' classed as a manager in private sector. The reason I'm interested is I can't actually believe the difference. The LSE describes it as ‘people in management roles’ which is, I suppose, open to interpretation but in the NHS it would certainly include Sisters who are officially called ‘ward managers’. I found this... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK259404/ Composition and capacity The official census shows that around 3% of NHS employees are managers and senior managers. In contrast, when middle managers and those holding hybrid clinical-managerial roles are included, the actual proportion of staff in an acute trust with managerial responsibilities is around 30%. Management is a widely distributed function, not confined to a small cadre or elite. " I’ve just read that in a Nuffield Trust paper, it goes on to say: “ The public discourse about NHS managers tends to imply they are a discrete suit-wearing group, set apart from doctors, nurses and patients. But there isn’t such a neat line between 'managers' and 'non-managers'. Lots of people do a little bit of management – even though they might have a full time professional role. Meanwhile, people whose job title is 'manager' or 'director' may still get involved in hands on front line work. Looking at doctors in the NHS, many hospital consultants will also have managerial responsibilities as the lead for improving or overseeing a certain area. And Clinical Directors, key leaders who jointly run hospital specialty areas, still spend time practicing medicine or surgery. Although only the small minority who are full time managers get counted in official statistics, people with clinical qualifications and responsibilities make up the great majority of NHS staff with management responsibilities. So NHS management is not a group of people, it is a set of tasks, and one that is largely done by doctors, nurses and other clinicians. From this perspective, employing full time managers could help to free up clinically qualified people to provide patient care.” | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. Getting the country on a diet would help a lot more than more nhs managers. Nhs overriden with self inflicted problems that salad dodgers have brought on themselves. “Britain’s weight problem costs almost £100bn a year, analysis suggests, prompting calls for a government crackdown on unhealthy food and a drive to promote fresh ingredients. The spiralling cost shows that the growing prevalence of people being overweight is “an absolute public health disaster”, said Henry Dimbleby, the government’s former adviser on food. The cost has soared from £58bn in 2020 to £98bn, according to the Tony Blair Institute. The costs to people affected rose from £45.2bn to £63.1bn a year, and the costs to the NHS from £10.8bn to £19.2bn, according to modelling undertaken for the thinktank by Frontier Economics.” Add all the unhealthy food the government is not legislating against, cigarettes, vapes etc Finger pointing at the nhs while our retard society can’t help themselves. " Public health, that’s a local government responsibility, and the budget for it has been slashed! | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative. Fair. We do hear about 'too many managers'. I'd be interested in knowing this definition of managers. ie. Is a sister or charge nurse classed as a manager in NHS, And conversely is a 'team leader' classed as a manager in private sector. The reason I'm interested is I can't actually believe the difference. The LSE describes it as ‘people in management roles’ which is, I suppose, open to interpretation but in the NHS it would certainly include Sisters who are officially called ‘ward managers’. I found this... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK259404/ Composition and capacity The official census shows that around 3% of NHS employees are managers and senior managers. In contrast, when middle managers and those holding hybrid clinical-managerial roles are included, the actual proportion of staff in an acute trust with managerial responsibilities is around 30%. Management is a widely distributed function, not confined to a small cadre or elite. I’ve just read that in a Nuffield Trust paper, it goes on to say: “ The public discourse about NHS managers tends to imply they are a discrete suit-wearing group, set apart from doctors, nurses and patients. But there isn’t such a neat line between 'managers' and 'non-managers'. Lots of people do a little bit of management – even though they might have a full time professional role. Meanwhile, people whose job title is 'manager' or 'director' may still get involved in hands on front line work. Looking at doctors in the NHS, many hospital consultants will also have managerial responsibilities as the lead for improving or overseeing a certain area. And Clinical Directors, key leaders who jointly run hospital specialty areas, still spend time practicing medicine or surgery. Although only the small minority who are full time managers get counted in official statistics, people with clinical qualifications and responsibilities make up the great majority of NHS staff with management responsibilities. So NHS management is not a group of people, it is a set of tasks, and one that is largely done by doctors, nurses and other clinicians. From this perspective, employing full time managers could help to free up clinically qualified people to provide patient care.”" I understand that front line staff may also be managers, the same would also be the case in the private sector. I'm interested in how it's calculated because you're argument of 3% vs 11% doesn't ring true. Especially when we see 30% are actually in management when all is counted. It's not a massive issue but when you use figures to argue that 'the nhs have way less managers than private sector' we should be using comparative data. | |||
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"Getting the country on a diet would help a lot more than more nhs managers. Nhs overriden with self inflicted problems that salad dodgers have brought on themselves. “Britain’s weight problem costs almost £100bn a year, analysis suggests ..." We've already had this discussion in another thread. The summary is that the research is wildly inaccurate, and the costs of obesity to the NHS are closer to £9bn. Still a non-trivial amount, but nowhere near what Tony Blair and his institute would have us believe. | |||
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"Having more managers in the NHS would allow them to do their job properly, it would encourage good managers to stay, and it would free up time for clinicians to do the important work looking after patients. I can see the campaign slogan now - "1% on income tax to pay for more NHS managers". That'll be a vote winner. That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers. I don't think people have been fed the NHS has be 'over-managed'. I see people speaking about it being 'mis-managed'. I would say it is definitely both that forms the narrative. Fair. We do hear about 'too many managers'. I'd be interested in knowing this definition of managers. ie. Is a sister or charge nurse classed as a manager in NHS, And conversely is a 'team leader' classed as a manager in private sector. The reason I'm interested is I can't actually believe the difference. The LSE describes it as ‘people in management roles’ which is, I suppose, open to interpretation but in the NHS it would certainly include Sisters who are officially called ‘ward managers’. I found this... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK259404/ Composition and capacity The official census shows that around 3% of NHS employees are managers and senior managers. In contrast, when middle managers and those holding hybrid clinical-managerial roles are included, the actual proportion of staff in an acute trust with managerial responsibilities is around 30%. Management is a widely distributed function, not confined to a small cadre or elite. I’ve just read that in a Nuffield Trust paper, it goes on to say: “ The public discourse about NHS managers tends to imply they are a discrete suit-wearing group, set apart from doctors, nurses and patients. But there isn’t such a neat line between 'managers' and 'non-managers'. Lots of people do a little bit of management – even though they might have a full time professional role. Meanwhile, people whose job title is 'manager' or 'director' may still get involved in hands on front line work. Looking at doctors in the NHS, many hospital consultants will also have managerial responsibilities as the lead for improving or overseeing a certain area. And Clinical Directors, key leaders who jointly run hospital specialty areas, still spend time practicing medicine or surgery. Although only the small minority who are full time managers get counted in official statistics, people with clinical qualifications and responsibilities make up the great majority of NHS staff with management responsibilities. So NHS management is not a group of people, it is a set of tasks, and one that is largely done by doctors, nurses and other clinicians. From this perspective, employing full time managers could help to free up clinically qualified people to provide patient care.” I understand that front line staff may also be managers, the same would also be the case in the private sector. I'm interested in how it's calculated because you're argument of 3% vs 11% doesn't ring true. Especially when we see 30% are actually in management when all is counted. It's not a massive issue but when you use figures to argue that 'the nhs have way less managers than private sector' we should be using comparative data. " But if we don’t know the methodology a similar thing may occur in the private sector? I have had management responsibilities in a couple of jobs but I wasn’t ever described as a manager. Also I got the info from the LSE, it’s their data, not mine. However, as Nuffield argue, employing more managers would free up clinicians to do clinical stuff. | |||
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" But if we don’t know the methodology a similar thing may occur in the private sector? I have had management responsibilities in a couple of jobs but I wasn’t ever described as a manager. Also I got the info from the LSE, it’s their data, not mine. However, as Nuffield argue, employing more managers would free up clinicians to do clinical stuff." That's the whole point... We don't know the methodology yet you say "That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers" | |||
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" But if we don’t know the methodology a similar thing may occur in the private sector? I have had management responsibilities in a couple of jobs but I wasn’t ever described as a manager. Also I got the info from the LSE, it’s their data, not mine. However, as Nuffield argue, employing more managers would free up clinicians to do clinical stuff. That's the whole point... We don't know the methodology yet you say "That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers" " That’s a fair point but I look at it from the point of view that the same issue around what constitutes management could be the case in both the NHS and private sector. Regardless, when it comes to a choice between the clinical and management work for a clinician, the patients will always win. Take the example of a Sister, they are meant to be supernumerary, so they can manage the ward, you’ll really struggle to find one who isn’t counted in the numbers and taking a team (of patients) these days, because the staffing levels are so bad. So that management work will then have to be picked up by the non-clinical managers, who already have too much on their plate. | |||
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" But if we don’t know the methodology a similar thing may occur in the private sector? I have had management responsibilities in a couple of jobs but I wasn’t ever described as a manager. Also I got the info from the LSE, it’s their data, not mine. However, as Nuffield argue, employing more managers would free up clinicians to do clinical stuff. That's the whole point... We don't know the methodology yet you say "That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers" That’s a fair point but I look at it from the point of view that the same issue around what constitutes management could be the case in both the NHS and private sector. Regardless, when it comes to a choice between the clinical and management work for a clinician, the patients will always win. Take the example of a Sister, they are meant to be supernumerary, so they can manage the ward, you’ll really struggle to find one who isn’t counted in the numbers and taking a team (of patients) these days, because the staffing levels are so bad. So that management work will then have to be picked up by the non-clinical managers, who already have too much on their plate. " That's the same in every sector... If a foreman on a building site has to jump on the tools then the project manager will have to pick up the foremans workload. My issue was you using figures to prove a point, not knowing who those figures were correlated. | |||
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"You know what's sick? Authorities and government class state pension as a 'benefit'. That said National Insurance is just tax under an obsfucate name. It's not ring fenced at all for NHS or pension." it helps some narratives as it allows the "benefits" bill to look big and increasing. | |||
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" But if we don’t know the methodology a similar thing may occur in the private sector? I have had management responsibilities in a couple of jobs but I wasn’t ever described as a manager. Also I got the info from the LSE, it’s their data, not mine. However, as Nuffield argue, employing more managers would free up clinicians to do clinical stuff. That's the whole point... We don't know the methodology yet you say "That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers" That’s a fair point but I look at it from the point of view that the same issue around what constitutes management could be the case in both the NHS and private sector. Regardless, when it comes to a choice between the clinical and management work for a clinician, the patients will always win. Take the example of a Sister, they are meant to be supernumerary, so they can manage the ward, you’ll really struggle to find one who isn’t counted in the numbers and taking a team (of patients) these days, because the staffing levels are so bad. So that management work will then have to be picked up by the non-clinical managers, who already have too much on their plate. That's the same in every sector... If a foreman on a building site has to jump on the tools then the project manager will have to pick up the foremans workload. My issue was you using figures to prove a point, not knowing who those figures were correlated. " If ward managers were just having to ‘jump on the tools’ for a day or so then there wouldn’t be an issue but in a lot of cases they are permanently in the numbers now, it means they haven’t been able to perform their managerial responsibilities for months, sometimes even years. Not wishing to denigrate the role of a foreman on a building site but I have a feeling it’s not quite as complex as that of a ward manager in a hospital. | |||
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" But if we don’t know the methodology a similar thing may occur in the private sector? I have had management responsibilities in a couple of jobs but I wasn’t ever described as a manager. Also I got the info from the LSE, it’s their data, not mine. However, as Nuffield argue, employing more managers would free up clinicians to do clinical stuff. That's the whole point... We don't know the methodology yet you say "That’s perhaps because for years people have been fed the lie that the NHS is over-managed, when the facts show that the supposedly efficient private sector has 3-4 times more managers" That’s a fair point but I look at it from the point of view that the same issue around what constitutes management could be the case in both the NHS and private sector. Regardless, when it comes to a choice between the clinical and management work for a clinician, the patients will always win. Take the example of a Sister, they are meant to be supernumerary, so they can manage the ward, you’ll really struggle to find one who isn’t counted in the numbers and taking a team (of patients) these days, because the staffing levels are so bad. So that management work will then have to be picked up by the non-clinical managers, who already have too much on their plate. That's the same in every sector... If a foreman on a building site has to jump on the tools then the project manager will have to pick up the foremans workload. My issue was you using figures to prove a point, not knowing who those figures were correlated. If ward managers were just having to ‘jump on the tools’ for a day or so then there wouldn’t be an issue but in a lot of cases they are permanently in the numbers now, it means they haven’t been able to perform their managerial responsibilities for months, sometimes even years. Not wishing to denigrate the role of a foreman on a building site but I have a feeling it’s not quite as complex as that of a ward manager in a hospital." The point was that in all industries, there are staff who have to pick up others workloads. You know this, but the NHS is so much more important than any other industry of course. | |||
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