FabSwingers.com forum: The Labour Party

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/01/24 16:06:58]

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley

You usually need to dangle something to get a bite.

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By *exy_HornyCouple
over a year ago

Leigh

"[Removed by poster at 04/01/24 16:06:58]"

Don't have any policies?

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

"[Removed by poster at 04/01/24 16:06:58]

Don't have any policies?"

You actually mean, they won't say anything to rock the boat and implode maybe?

Let's face it, they will probably win the election because everyone has had enough of the current crock rather than risk losing it by being controversial.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Are the same as the Tories?

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley

Are a group of people numbering less than 200.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You usually need to dangle something to get a bite.

And here it comes matey! Hot off the press... I accidentally pressed the delete button

Soweeee.. anyway:

Personally, I'm not too keen on kier Starmer.. I've a feeling something doesn't ring true... The things he says, how he presents himself, body language.. seems another "Tory

Blair" .. oops Tony (teflon) Blair

Id feel more at ease with Yvette Cooper .. or even Claire Raynor as leaders.

Thoughts please

"What's going on here guys?"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Are the same as the Tories?"

Ermm.. yeah probly

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Are the same as the Tories?

Ermm.. yeah probly

They're both left wing parties with a touch of centre

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 04/01/24 16:06:58]"

Pretty much sums them up.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Are the same as the Tories?

Ermm.. yeah probly

They're both left wing parties with a touch of centre

Oh right.. thought your were going to say poker lining selfish fekers with dodgy ideas .. like teflon tony

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

Has anyone spotted something here.

Today should have been about a new Labour declaration (not"New Labour" before anyone goes off on a tangent).

However, the Prime Minister declares that the election would be in the latter part of the year. This is stating the bleeding obvious and normally not worth much more than a footnote.

Guess what? The Starmer speech becomes the footnote with the PMs statement of the bleeding obvious as the headline.

Why?

This leads me to think that the press don't rate the Starmer content as exciting enough.

And/or

The press feel that there is nothing new and radical.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"You usually need to dangle something to get a bite.

And here it comes matey! Hot off the press... I accidentally pressed the delete button

Soweeee.. anyway:

Personally, I'm not too keen on kier Starmer.. I've a feeling something doesn't ring true... The things he says, how he presents himself, body language.. seems another "Tory

Blair" .. oops Tony (teflon) Blair

Id feel more at ease with Yvette Cooper .. or even Claire Raynor as leaders.

Thoughts please

"What's going on here guys?"

Sir Kier Starmer to you and don't you forget it.

Rayner looks and sounds like she is up for a bar fight even when discussing the most simple of things.

Cooper, my god it must be a hoot when Sir Kier and her have brain storming session.

You lost your big guns, Abbot and Corbyn who surely be dusted down and invited back in for their refreshing views.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"You usually need to dangle something to get a bite.

And here it comes matey! Hot off the press... I accidentally pressed the delete button

Soweeee.. anyway:

Personally, I'm not too keen on kier Starmer.. I've a feeling something doesn't ring true... The things he says, how he presents himself, body language.. seems another "Tory

Blair" .. oops Tony (teflon) Blair

Id feel more at ease with Yvette Cooper .. or even Claire Raynor as leaders.

Thoughts please

"What's going on here guys?"

Claire Raynor has been dead since 2020!

And was an agony Aunt, not a politician!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Claire Raynor has been dead since 2020!

And was an agony Aunt, not a politician!"

Yes! Well spotted.. I was deliberately testing you lot were on the ball

Angela Rayner

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Anyway... Sir (thanks NotMe66) sir.. Kier Starmer.. I just don't really like him.

Anyone else the same as me?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Anyway... Sir (thanks NotMe66) sir.. Kier Starmer.. I just don't really like him.

Anyone else the same as me?"

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By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

city centre

"Are the same as the Tories?"
yes red tories

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

"Anyone else the same as me?"

Nope. I think he would make a good member to the DMC on Facebook. (That's Dull Men's Club, not RunDMC, which was also another men's club but a bit too exciting for the FB DMC. Polar opposites I would hesitatingly suggest).

I think I've had enough of "exciting" politics. Something a bit more low key and less excoriating would be nice. Just for a change.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Anyone else the same as me?

I think I've had enough of "exciting" politics. Something a bit more low key and less excoriating would be nice. Just for a change."

Like a Biden?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You usually need to dangle something to get a bite.

And here it comes matey! Hot off the press... I accidentally pressed the delete button

Soweeee.. anyway:

Personally, I'm not too keen on kier Starmer.. I've a feeling something doesn't ring true... The things he says, how he presents himself, body language.. seems another "Tory

Blair" .. oops Tony (teflon) Blair

Id feel more at ease with Yvette Cooper .. or even Claire Raynor as leaders.

Thoughts please

"What's going on here guys?"

Sir Kier Starmer to you and don't you forget it.

Rayner looks and sounds like she is up for a bar fight even when discussing the most simple of things.

Cooper, my god it must be a hoot when Sir Kier and her have brain storming session.

You lost your big guns, Abbot and Corbyn who surely be dusted down and invited back in for their refreshing views."

Cooprr and Raynor though appears to lack the immoral greed the tory party stand for

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tories and Labour are 2 sides of the same coin so really you folks will be votibg for the same party in different colours. I wont be be voting

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

SKS cannot be a leader if he loses his seat in the next election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And to be honest as much as the Tories has been awful in office I'm not sure why most of you would put your faith in someone like Kier Starmer who likes to flip flop and be indecisive a lot. Not good traits of a leader and that alone should carry a red flag

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"And to be honest as much as the Tories has been awful in office I'm not sure why most of you would put your faith in someone like Kier Starmer who likes to flip flop and be indecisive a lot. Not good traits of a leader and that alone should carry a red flag"

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?"
but they carry a blue flag !

What examples come to mind here. As I see three versions of flip flipping on play

1) populism playing to the crowd flip flipping

2) patching up incomplete policies when they turn out to have holes

3) changing one's mind as tej facts change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?"

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same."

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?"

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two. "

Actually I would rather we had strong leadership in both major parties with clear vision and the strength of their convictions. Wish they would be clear on what THEY stand for and stop playing to the populist gallery!

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same."
That's what I'm saying, Tories and Labour are 2 sides of the same coin so effectively everyone will be voting for the same party just the colour is different

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies"

You said in the other thread that you were woke.

Confusing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies

You said in the other thread that you were woke.

Confusing. "
No I didnt say I was woke, please dont make up stuff I didnt say

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies

You said in the other thread that you were woke.

Confusing. No I didnt say I was woke, please dont make up stuff I didnt say"

You said it was woke to oppose the ULEZ.

And you have said you opposed the ULEZ.

So I assumed you were saying that you're aware of social injustice, especially racism.

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By *orses and PoniesMan
over a year ago

Ealing

At least thus year the electorate will have a chance to show the Labour Party what people think of them

With at least 13 years of non stop success and four great leaders , David Cameron, Teresa May,Lizz Truss and Boris Johnson why would any rational person vote for anyone else ? The last election was a stunning success, so much so that various politicians seemed to spend all their time trying to find any minor fault with his success. His management of Covid is self explanatory, many lives were saved and people saved from financial ruin.

Kier Starmer has already shown his contempt for hard working people who have have accumulated a little money. He will reverse the proposed cuts in Inheritance Tax rates. Hopefully it will be completely abolished .

His proposed funding of other proposed benefits by removing the non dom tax status is laughable . Maybe he needs to read the criteria to achieve non dom status. People would simply invest elsewhere and as such no additional revenue would be generated .

Hopefully the electorate will use common sense and realise just how disasterous his policies would be .

It will be a win for the Conservatives but with a reduced majority . If you care about the less well off in society or the sick and disabled you will want to be a vibrant economy in order to fund the services. We have in excess of 500,000 cars on the mobility scheme , 5.8 million claiming Universal Credit , 2.8 million claiming housing benefit and 2.7 million claiming PIP. Proof beyond all reasonable manner of doubt about Hoe much the government care

We need to overhaul the NHS . Many other European Contrries have a part privatised service,it should be the same in the UK .A part privatised medical service broken down into specialised divisions.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"At least thus year the electorate will have a chance to show the Labour Party what people think of them

Hopefully the electorate will use common sense and realise just how disasterous his policies would be .

We need to overhaul the NHS . Many other European Contrries have a part privatised service,it should be the same in the UK .A part privatised medical service broken down into specialised divisions. "

Welcome back!

Top notch comedy straight off the bat!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies

You said in the other thread that you were woke.

Confusing. No I didnt say I was woke, please dont make up stuff I didnt say

You said it was woke to oppose the ULEZ.

And you have said you opposed the ULEZ.

So I assumed you were saying that you're aware of social injustice, especially racism. "
No I said the ULEZ policy is woke itself why I oppose it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies

You said in the other thread that you were woke.

Confusing. No I didnt say I was woke, please dont make up stuff I didnt say"

*************************************

Please, don't swallow the bait.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Although truth be told I think I would fear a Labour government more because there be too much wokery stuff coming from them from gender recognition and definitions to climate policies

You said in the other thread that you were woke.

Confusing. No I didnt say I was woke, please dont make up stuff I didnt say

You said it was woke to oppose the ULEZ.

And you have said you opposed the ULEZ.

So I assumed you were saying that you're aware of social injustice, especially racism. No I said the ULEZ policy is woke itself why I oppose it "

How is the ULEZ policy woke?

You know that woke means being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At least thus year the electorate will have a chance to show the Labour Party what people think of them

Hopefully the electorate will use common sense and realise just how disasterous his policies would be .

We need to overhaul the NHS . Many other European Contrries have a part privatised service,it should be the same in the UK .A part privatised medical service broken down into specialised divisions.

Welcome back!

Top notch comedy straight off the bat!"

***************************************

(This discussion is concerned with the Labour Party)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/01/24 13:05:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Angela Raynor herself said Labour will look into having ULEZ schemes in all cities in the UK. Assuming they would do that if they do become the Government you think they will stop there? Probably not as just like London and Wales they will introduce LTNs, 20mph roads, ban on right and left turns in residential areas all over the country which I personally oppose which therefore Labour will never get my vote

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Angela Raynor herself said Labour will look into having ULEZ schemes in all cities in the UK. Assuming they would do that if they do become the Government you think they will stop there? Probably not as just like London and Wales they will introduce LTNs, 20mph roads, ban on right and left turns in residential areas all over the country which I personally oppose which therefore Labour will never get my vote"

Fair enough. Is this a top issue for you, more important than the economy, climate change, mitigation against the impacts of Brexit, etc etc?

Also, I am interested in what confuses you about woke?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fair enough. Is this a top issue for you, more important than the economy, climate change, mitigation against the impacts of Brexit, etc etc?

Also, I am interested in what confuses you about woke?"

In what way is making transport more expensive and difficult not about the economy?

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

Near where I live, they built a new school. There's an enforced speed limit of 20mph on that short stretch of road, nothing else there just a school. At one end of the road is a new housing estate, which is a dead end. The housing estate, with its narrow roads, is a 30 zone. Surely, nobody would oppose extending the 20 zone to the housing estate? I'm not in favour of a blanket 20 zone for the whole town but surely someone else can arrive at the conclusion that a child's life matters on the way to school as much as when they are outside school? And it can't just be an isolated case, this surely must occur elsewhere. Brain dead councils aren't exactly uncommon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Near where I live, they built a new school. There's an enforced speed limit of 20mph on that short stretch of road, nothing else there just a school. At one end of the road is a new housing estate, which is a dead end. The housing estate, with its narrow roads, is a 30 zone. Surely, nobody would oppose extending the 20 zone to the housing estate? I'm not in favour of a blanket 20 zone for the whole town but surely someone else can arrive at the conclusion that a child's life matters on the way to school as much as when they are outside school? And it can't just be an isolated case, this surely must occur elsewhere. Brain dead councils aren't exactly uncommon. "
Yeah have 20mph roads in common sense places like schools and hospitals etc but why have 20mph roads in dual carriage ways?

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere."

Fair challenge let me clarify. Of course all parties but the reality right now is that Jesus or Mohammed could start a political party but unless they are in either Labour or Conservative they won’t be PM. Over time perhaps. But they’ll need a track record!

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I agree that unless you're either Labour or Tory you stand no chance of ever being PM.

How does one gain a track record if people don't vote for them?

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"At least thus year the electorate will have a chance to show the Labour Party what people think of them

Hopefully the electorate will use common sense and realise just how disasterous his policies would be .

We need to overhaul the NHS . Many other European Contrries have a part privatised service,it should be the same in the UK .A part privatised medical service broken down into specialised divisions. "

Happy New Year and welcome back Pat. New year new you

The site has been dull without you.

Sing to Backstreet Boys:

“Put down Pat is back!”

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I agree that unless you're either Labour or Tory you stand no chance of ever being PM.

How does one gain a track record if people don't vote for them?"

Best ask Farage

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I agree that unless you're either Labour or Tory you stand no chance of ever being PM.

How does one gain a track record if people don't vote for them?

Best ask Farage

Does he have a track record? I keep hearing he's failed for parliament 7 times

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I don't think, maybe in wrong, that most people voting for anyone whose not the big two, are doing so expecting them to be up there for PM.

Neither of the two main parties attract my vote (except one single time). So I can either not vote, or vote for a smaller party that may have a slight influence like the greens or ukip or whomever that maybe.

If everyone who felt like neither main party represented them went and voted for a smaller party, things could change. (I realise that it could obviously be a bad change).

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I don't think, maybe in wrong, that most people voting for anyone whose not the big two, are doing so expecting them to be up there for PM.

If everyone who felt like neither main party represented them went and voted for a smaller party, things could change. (I realise that it could obviously be a bad change)."

I am not advocating a two party system but with FPTP that is all we will ever get. I advocate PR but that sends shudders up some!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"At least thus year the electorate will have a chance to show the Labour Party what people think of them

Hopefully the electorate will use common sense and realise just how disasterous his policies would be .

We need to overhaul the NHS . Many other European Contrries have a part privatised service,it should be the same in the UK .A part privatised medical service broken down into specialised divisions.

Welcome back!

Top notch comedy straight off the bat!"

100% agree.. hilarious!

master stroke of comedy and should be on telly!

Hahaha

[standing applause

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By *uninlondon69Man
over a year ago

Tower Bridge South

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I agree that unless you're either Labour or Tory you stand no chance of ever being PM.

How does one gain a track record if people don't vote for them?

Best ask Farage

Does he have a track record? I keep hearing he's failed for parliament 7 times"

Once finished behind a dolphin

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Near where I live, they built a new school. There's an enforced speed limit of 20mph on that short stretch of road, nothing else there just a school. At one end of the road is a new housing estate, which is a dead end. The housing estate, with its narrow roads, is a 30 zone. Surely, nobody would oppose extending the 20 zone to the housing estate? I'm not in favour of a blanket 20 zone for the whole town but surely someone else can arrive at the conclusion that a child's life matters on the way to school as much as when they are outside school? And it can't just be an isolated case, this surely must occur elsewhere. Brain dead councils aren't exactly uncommon. Yeah have 20mph roads in common sense places like schools and hospitals etc but why have 20mph roads in dual carriage ways? "
presumably there was a reason these dual carriage ways were 30mph already ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Getting back to sir Kier Starmer.. as mentioned he's just more of the same..

A better leadership with morentrue labour values would be cooper or Raynor

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I know Yvette cooper didn't run against Starmer in the leadership.. an arse kicker like Angie Raynor would be good

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Not defending Starmer (who is underwhelming) but flip flopping is something that can surely be levelled at Sunak and Johnson previously? Not sure this is a specific Labour trait?

I've hammered Starmer for flip-flopping. It can also be levelled at Sunak & Johnson. I think the point is, why vote for more of the same.

Because the alternative is either wishy washy (Lib Dems) or batshit crazy (Reform) or myopic and single visioned sod everything else (Green)?

So were stuck with the status quo?

We will end up with that I know, that doesn't mean we should accept it and vote for one of the two.

Why only the two major parties?

That would suggest that anyone who stands for what THEY believe in doesn't matter if they're fringe.

I know there is no realistic chance of fringe parties being elected but it has to start somewhere.

I agree that unless you're either Labour or Tory you stand no chance of ever being PM.

How does one gain a track record if people don't vote for them?

Best ask Farage

Does he have a track record? I keep hearing he's failed for parliament 7 times

Once finished behind a dolphin

The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Had David Milliband been leader I probably would be supporting Labour. But in good concious I just cant vote for Sunak or Labour under Starmer

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it"

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

Left-wing ideas usually enjoy popular support. Left-wing individuals usually tie themselves to appalling foreign policy and are unpopular. Green Party defence policy is usually a good laugh before an election. And we can all remember Corbyn saying Russia should receive a sample of what it was that Skripal was poisoned with, to rule them out. Starmer really didn't cover himself in glory by staying loyal then. What I'd give for a progressive leader of the Labour Party that's hawkish.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

This country has massive immigration of low skilled work force which businesses love.. it keeps production up whe keeping costs down...

Those country is fucked and can't continue.. they don't contribute financially yet burden the NHS, housing and other public services.

I can't see anyone or any party fixing this disaster..

I was a labour supporter for many years but now? I don't know. Ive lost faith in labour

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

Would corbyn have been better in your view or is that to far

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

I think Mr corbyn was taking the piss out of russia when he wanted to send it back, my guess with a note,,, lol is this the best military grade nerve agent you have.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Had David Milliband been leader I probably would be supporting Labour. But in good concious I just cant vote for Sunak or Labour under Starmer"

I’m with you on David Milliband. Was annoyed with Ed Milliband and couldn’t stand him until recently when he stood in for Starmer a few times st PMQs and was mightily impressive. But yeah David was a loss IMO.

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By *anJenny 181Couple
over a year ago

Preston

Labour can't seem to do right for doing wrong.

When it goes off in a so called looney left direction with so called radical policy's

They get bummed by the the press

When they sit on a boring let's call it mainstream footing they are boring & conformist

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By *ornucopiaMan
over a year ago

Bexley

Labour needs a change of name as well as a change of leadership.

Such a shame that they let a breakaway faction grab the obvious 'Democrats' name. It could have taken them into the twentieth, let alone twenty-first century.

No voter with the sort of aspirations that Tory supporters appear to have (even erroneously)is going to want to be tempted by a name which sounds like toil. The very word conservative earns the Tory party support from the many who (probably mistakenly) think that it means voters can hang onto a secure existence.

Democrats sound like fair minded politicians but the name isn't now available to Labour.

Whatever they do, they shouldn't go for anything trendy like 'Woke'. Such expressions soon become passé or, as we can see above, objects of derision. It is already bad enough being called 'lefty' when the opposite, 'right' benefits from being synonymous with 'correct'.

Apologies if I have made these points before but Labour just don't listen to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

Would corbyn have been better in your view or is that to far"

At least with Corbyn, you knew what he stood for. "What it says on the tin"

What does Starmer stand for?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap"

Exactly! He can't say what a woman is FFS

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap"

How far is too far to go with being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

Why are you stressed out about the possibility of a less racist government?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

More labour MP’s have been imprisoned for expense fraud than any other party.

The tories seem to have avoided prison so far, Zahawi possibly came close on tax evasion, jury’s out on Mone atm

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

How far is too far to go with being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

Why are you stressed out about the possibility of a less racist government?"

Less racist? Antisemitism aside then? Or does that not class as racist?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

How far is too far to go with being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

Why are you stressed out about the possibility of a less racist government?

Less racist? Antisemitism aside then? Or does that not class as racist?"

You need to ask the other chap, this is his beef.

Side note. Did you read the Forde report?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

How far is too far to go with being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

Why are you stressed out about the possibility of a less racist government?"
Dont know why you keep bringing racism up but since you mentioned it I dont think I want a Labour Government run by anti semites

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

How far is too far to go with being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

Why are you stressed out about the possibility of a less racist government? Dont know why you keep bringing racism up but since you mentioned it I dont think I want a Labour Government run by anti semites"

You keep bringing it up when you mention "woke" in every other post.

I'm just asking for some clarification.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"[Removed by poster at 04/01/24 16:06:58]

Don't have any policies?

You actually mean, they won't say anything to rock the boat and implode maybe?

Let's face it, they will probably win the election because everyone has had enough of the current crock rather than risk losing it by being controversial."

It is a shame screaming lord sutch isn't still with us, he might have been in with a shout.

At least you knew what you were going to get, when you voted for the Monster Raving Looney Party.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

How far is too far to go with being aware of social injustice, especially racism?

Which of the current Labour MPs is an anti semite?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

Kier Starmer has a proven track record for taking on a large, failing institution and turning it around. He did such a good job he was knighted for his work.

When you say he falls short…

What exactly do you mean?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap"

I don’t think you know what woke means do you?

You have heard others mention things being “woke” and so like them, you have invented your own definition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thats why I cant vote for Labour, I know they gonna go far with this in your face wokery crap

I don’t think you know what woke means do you?

You have heard others mention things being “woke” and so like them, you have invented your own definition.

I thought verb was used to describe social injustice and discrimination?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

Kier Starmer has a proven track record for taking on a large, failing institution and turning it around. He did such a good job he was knighted for his work.

When you say he falls short…

What exactly do you mean?"

I really wouldn’t use receiving a Knighthood as a measure of success. If in doubt then I would refer you to the resignation honours list of Boris Johnson and Liz Truss.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"Kier Starmer has a proven track record for taking on a large, failing institution and turning it around. He did such a good job he was knighted for his work."

He was knighted for serving as Director of Public Prosecutions, like every other DPP before and since.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"The carzy thing about this is that lefties believe it

What's needed is a strong leader with a belief in what's good for and serve the needs of all the citizens in this country.

The Tories are proven to be corrupt two faced incompetent greedy liars and I'll never vote for them. Their ideology is based on selfish greed at the best of times

A socialist party with a fair and decent and strong leader is needed.. Starmer falls short

Would corbyn have been better in your view or is that to far

At least with Corbyn, you knew what he stood for. "What it says on the tin"

What does Starmer stand for?

I was not keen on Corbyn, but as you say you knew what you were getting. He was not one to try and get as close to Tory policy as possible and there was a clear line between the two parties. What Starmer stands for, I still am not sure apart from being Tory light. I was told a while back on here that we won't know his policies until closer to the election so maybe, just maybe he will tell us soon. Although I won't vote Tory in the next GE I doubt very much I will vote Labour either

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

My first thought when I think of the labour party, is an eagerness to take away the fruits of success from people who have worked hard. A dismissiveness towards people who have made money, a feeling that they must have been lucky, privileged or from a wealthy family.

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My first thought when I think of the labour party, is an eagerness to take away the fruits of success from people who have worked hard. A dismissiveness towards people who have made money, a feeling that they must have been lucky, privileged or from a wealthy family.

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS.... "

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them"

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

That is probably a huge difference between us, I don't give a shit about any party in particular, I make my own way without hanging my hat on a party and will happily flip flop around for the best deal.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them"

I see this kind of thought often. Why can't people be free to choose what suits then rather than toe the party line?

I'm fairly right on some policies and fairly left on others. Does that make me a Tory? Or a Labourite? Or as some have suggested, far right?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory."

Well off you then

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS.... "

You have the most bizarre view of the Labour party. Is that for real?

I suspect that leftists (although I don't really know what your definition of leftists is) don't like SKS because he's taken the party further to the right in order to get elected. The party won't be elected unless it represents the interests of big corporations.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

You have the most bizarre view of the Labour party. Is that for real?

Bizarre view, I'm very confident many feel the same.

I could suggest you have a bizarre view of the labour party if you see it differently...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I see this kind of thought often. Why can't people be free to choose what suits then rather than toe the party line?

I'm fairly right on some policies and fairly left on others. Does that make me a Tory? Or a Labourite? Or as some have suggested, far right?"

Did I say "tow the party line"?

All I said was the Tories have way of validating some questionable disgusting ideologies and methods to achieve by various methods.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

You have the most bizarre view of the Labour party. Is that for real?

Bizarre view, I'm very confident many feel the same.

I could suggest you have a bizarre view of the labour party if you see it differently...

I'm not a fan of the labour party. But not because of the weird made up conspiracy theory nonsense like this.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

You have the most bizarre view of the Labour party. Is that for real?

Bizarre view, I'm very confident many feel the same.

I could suggest you have a bizarre view of the labour party if you see it differently...

I'm not a fan of the labour party. But not because of the weird made up conspiracy theory nonsense like this. "

You do know what leftists are in very much in favour of, or is politics not your thing?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I see this kind of thought often. Why can't people be free to choose what suits then rather than toe the party line?

I'm fairly right on some policies and fairly left on others. Does that make me a Tory? Or a Labourite? Or as some have suggested, far right?

Did I say "tow the party line"?

All I said was the Tories have way of validating some questionable disgusting ideologies and methods to achieve by various methods.

You said 'Tory' so I take someone who is a 'Tory' as someone who toes the party line. Same with any other party.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I'm gonna start a new game where we can count how many times 'randomer''swingers forum''conspiracy' can be said in threads.

I think it'll be quite fun

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm gonna start a new game where we can count how many times 'randomer''swingers forum''conspiracy' can be said in threads.

I think it'll be quite fun

Too late.. I've already checked

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully. "

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

You have the most bizarre view of the Labour party. Is that for real?

Bizarre view, I'm very confident many feel the same.

I could suggest you have a bizarre view of the labour party if you see it differently...

I'm not a fan of the labour party. But not because of the weird made up conspiracy theory nonsense like this.

You do know what leftists are in very much in favour of, or is politics not your thing?"

I do, a wide range of different things.

But again, I don't know what your definition of "leftist" is. And I presume whatever it is, is a wide range of views within that group.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!"

Strange thing to say, care to expand on your thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!

Strange thing to say, care to expand on your thoughts?"

The premise for my comment is that some of the posts above are circular at best and ridiculous at worst.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!

Strange thing to say, care to expand on your thoughts?

The premise for my comment is that some of the posts above are circular at best and ridiculous at worst."

you could join in with something constructive to make it less so...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!

Strange thing to say, care to expand on your thoughts?"

I think Churchill borrowed from Socrates regarding giving power to cluless voters.. something like that

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Get yourself elected and stop chickening out

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!

Strange thing to say, care to expand on your thoughts?

The premise for my comment is that some of the posts above are circular at best and ridiculous at worst.

you could join in with something constructive to make it less so..."

The UK is, as far as politics is concerned, centrist. Sometimes we veer to the left of centre and sometimes to the right. When a party or wing of politics throws a curved ball such as Corbyn or Farrage they are savaged by the electorate. Perhaps the only radical politician since the last war to be elected as a PM or leader is Mrs T and she was a wolf in sheep’s clothing in the right place at the right time that is at the end of the 1970s which were pretty gloomy.

So add to the centrist hypothesis an electoral system that supports the first past the post mandate you have an elixir of tramadol infused apathy where little changes save a few Oxbridge suits.

In summary we can argue all day as to leftist or right wing allegiance but the fact of the matter is nothing of any significance will change!

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?"

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Churchill, whose politics I do not identify with, was quoted as saying that “ the greatest argument against democracy is speak the ordinary voter for 5 minutes”.

Having read this thread he maybe correct!

Strange thing to say, care to expand on your thoughts?

The premise for my comment is that some of the posts above are circular at best and ridiculous at worst.

you could join in with something constructive to make it less so...

So add to the centrist hypothesis an electoral system that supports the first past the post mandate you have an elixir of tramadol infused apathy where little changes save a few Oxbridge suits.

In summary we can argue all day as to leftist or right wing allegiance but the fact of the matter is nothing of any significance will change!

True, but I do like to see people dig in for no reason other than it is their party.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Get yourself elected and stop chickening out"

You lot couldn't cope with me in charge

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *oshua.LMan
over a year ago

slough

Sir Keir Starmer……….

AKA Cap’n Hindsight; With splinters in his arse as big as the fence he posture’s, like a peacock, on.

With the Tory’s in such disarray, a decent leader would have The Labour Party much further ahead in the polls than they are, even now. Give it a few months, Labour will fuck it up. For example; I hear………………….. Diane Abbot is tipped to be the new Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Gawd help us……. 2 + 3 - 1 = mmmm 30000!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people. "

Like Vladimir Putin you mean.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Get yourself elected and stop chickening out

You lot couldn't cope with me in charge

Oh I dunno.. the people are used to a greedy selfish government

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A few thoughts on wokist policies

1) this is getting airtime because the Tories see this as a platform to campaign on. I'd be asking myself am I getting patio ate about these policies because they are particularlly import at to me, or because I'm being asked for my opinion.

2) many people agree with many of the reasons for some policies, yet have an instinctive reaction against the headline. In this thread someone was anti 20mph, but then said they'd be happy if it was restricted to (and a I paraphrase) schools ans other similar (I'm guessing residential) areas. My question would be then where has the policy gone too far and become "woke"

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

I think labour struggles because it has moved from areas of whokeness many are happy with (class wars and some race issues) to other areas (middle east, trans, eco) and this is a woke too far. Or cynically, a woke that doesn't affect its core voters.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people.

Like Vladimir Putin you mean.

No, Vlad kills his detractors swiftly....

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Get yourself elected and stop chickening out

You lot couldn't cope with me in charge

Oh I dunno.. the people are used to a greedy selfish government "

My government wouldn't be like that, the more you do the more you benefit. I'm sure people would sign up for that, erm thinking about it......

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

it worries me if Starmer can't answer a simple question of what is a woman.

Still, I am fed up of the Tory party who shortens lives based on an ideology of greed and selfishness. It's a vile party I can never vote for no matter what spin they spew out

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

it worries me if Starmer can't answer a simple question of what is a woman.

Still, I am fed up of the Tory party who shortens lives based on an ideology of greed and selfishness. It's a vile party I can never vote for no matter what spin they spew out "

Serious question, why does it bother you what the conservatives or labour do? They will rotate slowly never getting it right until all the stars align...

I get on with my life adjusting things to minimise damage created by the sitting government, or use something to my advantage that the sitting gov has introduced.

I find it is the voters of the parties that rile me more than the party itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

it worries me if Starmer can't answer a simple question of what is a woman.

Still, I am fed up of the Tory party who shortens lives based on an ideology of greed and selfishness. It's a vile party I can never vote for no matter what spin they spew out

Serious question, why does it bother you what the conservatives or labour do? They will rotate slowly never getting it right until all the stars align...

I get on with my life adjusting things to minimise damage created by the sitting government, or use something to my advantage that the sitting gov has introduced.

I find it is the voters of the parties that rile me more than the party itself."

Now that’s constructive!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

A few of my thoughts on some of this...

1) it's getting airtime because it's become something which people are fed up with.

2) some policies are absolutely for the good but go too far. For instance, the 20mph zone around schools is good, on dual carriageways not so.

3) of course fighting institutional racism isn't woke per se. Its how these policies are implemented that people have issues with.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

As a lifelong Conservative it pains me to say it, but the current government is pretty awful.

However, would an incoming Labour government really be any better?

Would the economy improve under Labour? I don't think so.

Would the national debt reduce under Labour? Not a chance.

Would the NHS and public services in general be any different under Labour? Very doubtful.

Would immigration (both legal and illegal) reduce under Labour? Probably the opposite.

Would the cost of living come down under Labour? As above, probably the opposite.

The only positive I can see is that their union chums will probably call a truce on their blatantly political strike actions.

So there is your choice. The bloody awful Tories or the (at least) equally bloody awful Labour party.

Oh. And the Limp Dims will pick up a few seats.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

it worries me if Starmer can't answer a simple question of what is a woman.

Still, I am fed up of the Tory party who shortens lives based on an ideology of greed and selfishness. It's a vile party I can never vote for no matter what spin they spew out

Serious question, why does it bother you what the conservatives or labour do? They will rotate slowly never getting it right until all the stars align...

I get on with my life adjusting things to minimise damage created by the sitting government, or use something to my advantage that the sitting gov has introduced.

I find it is the voters of the parties that rile me more than the party itself.

Now that’s constructive!"

A lot more constructive than bleating on how the tories are bastards and labour are woke.

I don't really care and wont unless they introduce something that takes money out of my pocket or changes the way I can make decisions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

A few of my thoughts on some of this...

1) it's getting airtime because it's become something which people are fed up with.

2) some policies are absolutely for the good but go too far. For instance, the 20mph zone around schools is good, on dual carriageways not so.

3) of course fighting institutional racism isn't woke per se. Its how these policies are implemented that people have issues with. "
second time I've heard dual carriageways. Is this actually a thing? The regs are about reducing (many) 30s to 20. And only 40+ where there was mixing with pedestrians.

The "how" element on wokism is interesting. I think there is a lot to gain from different views agreeing common ground on issues, as often I suspect it's the how we address that we conflict on. But the problem and solutions are conflicted.

What are people fed up about? There's a risk they are fed up of airtime and we hit a vicious circle!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

it worries me if Starmer can't answer a simple question of what is a woman.

Still, I am fed up of the Tory party who shortens lives based on an ideology of greed and selfishness. It's a vile party I can never vote for no matter what spin they spew out

Serious question, why does it bother you what the conservatives or labour do? They will rotate slowly never getting it right until all the stars align...

I get on with my life adjusting things to minimise damage created by the sitting government, or use something to my advantage that the sitting gov has introduced.

I find it is the voters of the parties that rile me more than the party itself."

People vote for all sorts of daft reasons. But me personally can't vote for any party of any name that accepts making people suffer to the extent of shortening lives and making their lives miserable while changing the rules to enrich themselves, for the sake of a vile ideology.

One example George Osborne and ids deceiving the public while increasing the deprivation and suicide rate of vulnerable people..those who aren't in a position of influence.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

A few of my thoughts on some of this...

1) it's getting airtime because it's become something which people are fed up with.

2) some policies are absolutely for the good but go too far. For instance, the 20mph zone around schools is good, on dual carriageways not so.

3) of course fighting institutional racism isn't woke per se. Its how these policies are implemented that people have issues with. second time I've heard dual carriageways. Is this actually a thing? The regs are about reducing (many) 30s to 20. And only 40+ where there was mixing with pedestrians.

What are people fed up about? There's a risk they are fed up of airtime and we hit a vicious circle! "

Only restricted roads in Wales are being reduced to 20mph, which means those in residential areas where there’s streetlighting in place. The affected roads will most likely have been a 30mph zone before, and they will be signed in just the same way that 30mph and 20mph roads are now.

The wording here suggests that it could be used on dual carraigeways, I'm not aware of anywhere it has been implemented as of yet.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

A few of my thoughts on some of this...

1) it's getting airtime because it's become something which people are fed up with.

2) some policies are absolutely for the good but go too far. For instance, the 20mph zone around schools is good, on dual carriageways not so.

What are people fed up about? There's a risk they are fed up of airtime and we hit a vicious circle!

The wording here suggests that it could be used on dual carraigeways, I'm not aware of anywhere it has been implemented as of yet.

I can't answer what people are fed up about as I can't speak for a wide range of people. I personally am fed up with affirmative action, if that makes me racist, then so be it. I'd prefer positions based on merit and merit alone. "
I suspect that the dual carriageway bit is a case of fake news based on what I've seen in the legislation. Which (if it is not true) is one of those cases where the guy actually seemed to agree with what was done, despite arguing it as woke. The how is important !

I'm not gonna call you racists. I do think we need to check outcomes and understand why there may be differences to expectations. Sometimes this may have a foot in legitimacy (especially when dealing with tails of numbers), sometimes it may be the result of something further down the food chain (eg stem at school resulting in lower grads in certain roles), and sometimes it's because of what we are doing today. I'd want positive action to force people to address any inequities. However I also think it's used as a cop out in some instances and results in tokenism. If you need (say) at least one black candidate, and you don't have good quality applications, dont give an interview to the least worst, but explore why. Anyway, off topic.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A few thoughts on wokist policies

3) often we care about some causes that others may call woke. Probably where it affects us more and we don't have power. Is fighting institutional racism woke? Possibly to some.

A few of my thoughts on some of this...

1) it's getting airtime because it's become something which people are fed up with.

2) some policies are absolutely for the good but go too far. For instance, the 20mph zone around schools is good, on dual carriageways not so.

What are people fed up about? There's a risk they are fed up of airtime and we hit a vicious circle!

The wording here suggests that it could be used on dual carraigeways, I'm not aware of anywhere it has been implemented as of yet.

Short sighted Tory greed and incompetence has irreversibly fucked this country.

Uncontrolled immigration .. big business hiring on cheap Labour nto keep costs down and huge profit while a living paying tax, putting a huge strain on the NHS, housing etc.. while the pie scoffing Tories look for ways to befit themselves and their rich mates.. it's fucking disgusting

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

" I suspect that the dual carriageway bit is a case of fake news based on what I've seen in the legislation. Which (if it is not true) is one of those cases where the guy actually seemed to agree with what was done, despite arguing it as woke. The how is important !

Perhaps it is 'fake news', I. Not against 20mph in certain areas but would be if it oversteps. Tbh, I think speed limits need rewriting full stop.

I'm not against positive action but again, if it overstep, and it often does, then I'm against it. Take women referees in men's football, we've seen very recently 'the first' female referees officiating mens games and they've been dreadful. The most obvious thing is they aren't fast enough to keep up with play. When these women are getting the gigs, it's leaving men (who are fast enough) behind simply for the sake of 'affirmative action'.

Everyone will have their own things that they're fed up of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps it is 'fake news', I. Not against 20mph in certain areas but would be if it oversteps. Tbh, I think speed limits need rewriting full stop.

Everyone will have their own things that they're fed up of."
at a conference level they are all dreadful ... Plus the refs are a law unto themselves. Don't put down to positive discrimination what you can put down to sheer incompetence

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Perhaps it is 'fake news', I. Not against 20mph in certain areas but would be if it oversteps. Tbh, I think speed limits need rewriting full stop.

Everyone will have their own things that they're fed up of.at a conference level they are all dreadful ... Plus the refs are a law unto themselves. Don't put down to positive discrimination what you can put down to sheer incompetence

I get you but why are women now refereeing PL games when they're clearly not good enough? Theres men at championship level who are better. In my mind there's only one answer, not that they'll ever admit it publicly.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people. "

Oh fair enough. In that case I've never seen or come across a leftist in my life.

Where are you meeting these weird people?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

What can Labour offer really, we are were we are

There is no majic wand. Taxes have already increased by the highest in 70 years, yet we have seen little improvement in public services for it.

Uk has an ageing population, increased inequality characterised by three million more households living in rented housing than twenty years ago. Many workers with little or no pensions, all this will have be paid for by the state. Reduced manufacturing, increased imports. Add the cost of climate change.

How will all the promises be paid for.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"What can Labour offer really, we are were we are

There is no majic wand. Taxes have already increased by the highest in 70 years, yet we have seen little improvement in public services for it.

How will all the promises be paid for. "

I think the best we can expect is a less self serving corrupt government. I don't expect any meaning policy changes should Labour get in. Which I can't see why they would.

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By *rimly FiendishMan
over a year ago

Heath Hayes

Stamer is more smarmy than Tony Blair,i wouldnt trust him with anything.

All the people screaming they want him as the next PM,remember what a w....r he was as the DPP . He was hated for letting various people escape the justice they deserved.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people.

Oh fair enough. In that case I've never seen or come across a leftist in my life.

Where are you meeting these weird people?"

I can understand this, they tend not to show themselves as who they are in public on their own.

An exception to this is when they gather in large groups, disrupting towns and cities of the land.

You can often identify them when they are holding placards, it does give them away.

Most common method of spotting a leftist is their strange insistence on defending people "they feel" need defending, whilst calling everything and anyone who does not think exactly the same way, as right wing racist conspiracy randomers.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people.

Oh fair enough. In that case I've never seen or come across a leftist in my life.

Where are you meeting these weird people?

I can understand this, they tend not to show themselves as who they are in public on their own.

An exception to this is when they gather in large groups, disrupting towns and cities of the land.

You can often identify them when they are holding placards, it does give them away.

You scored 3 points:

Racist

Conspiracy

Rondomer

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people.

Oh fair enough. In that case I've never seen or come across a leftist in my life.

Where are you meeting these weird people?

I can understand this, they tend not to show themselves as who they are in public on their own.

An exception to this is when they gather in large groups, disrupting towns and cities of the land.

You can often identify them when they are holding placards, it does give them away.

You scored 3 points:

Racist

Conspiracy

Rondomer"

I did and I'm still 2309 points behind the leader...

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?"

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it "

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it "

It doesn't suit the narrative. I'm saying it's true seeing as we have councillors quoted. I've seen it on other sites but just appears rehash of GBN article.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this."

£1400 per month for each flat apparently. Not read much of it but was wondering if this is newly built flats or perhaps flats that have been on the market unsold or not rented for a while. Is its the later, without much prospect of change then it's not so bad but if not then I agree it's very troubling indeed.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I don't necessarily get that feeling from SKS but I do from shadow ministers like Rayner.

Maybe this is why leftists are not feeling the love for SKS....

Thays your perspective and with attitudes of Tories (lack of morals etc) see how that perspective is validated by them

I don't need the tory party to validate my thoughts, I validate them myself and how I want.

Leftists would rather die on their molehill than vote tory.

Well off you then

100% better off than people devoted to their political party with nowhere to go but disappointment as they fail to deliver again.....

I'm more of my own individual party, I deliver to me, I don't like sharing to much which will go down well amongst the progressives

Well I'm sure you'll do well when you stand in the elections

I'm elected for life, no change here, which suits my economy and lifestyle wonderfully.

Whaaaat?! And Rob the UK of your policies?

1 policy, get on with it and stop worrying about everyone else! Fits on a t-shirt and I think it could be memorable.

Is your definition of "leftist", someone with empathy who cares about other people?

What do you think?

I will give you a clue, you might need to change the word empathy, for jealousy, cares for hates, remove about and add "doing better for themselves" after people.

Oh fair enough. In that case I've never seen or come across a leftist in my life.

Where are you meeting these weird people?

I can understand this, they tend not to show themselves as who they are in public on their own.

An exception to this is when they gather in large groups, disrupting towns and cities of the land.

You can often identify them when they are holding placards, it does give them away.

I feel like you're worrying about something that isn't real.

Haven't ever seen or heard of anyone like you are describing here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

It doesn't suit the narrative. I'm saying it's true seeing as we have councillors quoted. I've seen it on other sites but just appears rehash of GBN article. "
what's the narrative ?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

Reported 113 flats @£1400, £1.9M a year cost paid by taxpayers in the face of a housing shortage/crisis. Add the new furniture, doubt its charity shop, gas electric water internet food interpreters lawyers courts etc.

2200 homeless veterans reported a couple weeks back, don’t recall any comment from

Labour on that either.

Labour will inherit this scheme and others. I am wondering what stance Labour will take. Soon Starmer will have to put a stake in the ground with policies instead of constant chastising Tory polices when he seems to have few ideas himself.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

It doesn't suit the narrative. I'm saying it's true seeing as we have councillors quoted. I've seen it on other sites but just appears rehash of GBN article. what's the narrative ?

Come on Hovis, you're better than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

2200 homeless veterans reported a couple weeks back, don’t recall any comment from

Labour on that either.

This was, it seems, labour analysis that brought you this subject.

"He added that a Labour government would bring the Armed Forces Covenant, which sets out the moral obligation that government and businesses owe to veterans, into law."

"Labour has previously launched a “Homes Fit for Heroes” campaign to highlight what it says is the poor state of armed forces accommodation, and pledged to create an armed forces commissioner to oversee the quality of housing."

Whether these are helpful ideas or not, they are policies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

It doesn't suit the narrative. I'm saying it's true seeing as we have councillors quoted. I've seen it on other sites but just appears rehash of GBN article. what's the narrative ?

Come on Hovis, you're better than that. "
I'm not.

I'm a little confused as this is a home office decision in a labour thread.

And I'd not want to second guess what is being implied about labour off the back of a home office action.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

It doesn't suit the narrative. I'm saying it's true seeing as we have councillors quoted. I've seen it on other sites but just appears rehash of GBN article. what's the narrative ?

Come on Hovis, you're better than that. I'm not.

I'm a little confused as this is a home office decision in a labour thread.

And I'd not want to second guess what is being implied about labour off the back of a home office action. "

Tbf the news angle of it doesn't really belong in this thread.

The narrative is that MSM don't want us to know because it's 'racist' to speak about asylum seekers getting things over Brits.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding "

If that's the case and the locals are now denied access to this housing then I can see why they are not happy

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

This was, it seems, labour analysis that brought you this subject.

"He added that a Labour government would bring the Armed Forces Covenant, which sets out the moral obligation that government and businesses owe to veterans, into law."

Whether these are helpful ideas or not, they are policies.

I’d assume starmer has read the parliamentary briefing paper 9716, 02 Feb 2023, page 6 confirms 96.2% of Mod homes meet the decent homes standard and 87.9% meet the decent homes plus standard

So what does he mean about the “poor state” of MOD housing. Or is it just an unfair dig at government in the face of reliable data he failed to read.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

If that's the case and the locals are now denied access to this housing then I can see why they are not happy"
it looks like the flats may have been on the market pre sept, based on ameteur sleuthing (wouldn't it have been great if gb news had told us....)

I'd imagine locals may be more annoyed by the new neighbours...

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"... while the pie scoffing Tories look for ways to befit themselves and their rich mates..."

How low down the social ladder do you need to be to think that 'pie scoffing' is an activity only enjoyed by rich people?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

If that's the case and the locals are now denied access to this housing then I can see why they are not happyit looks like the flats may have been on the market pre sept, based on ameteur sleuthing (wouldn't it have been great if gb news had told us....)

I'd imagine locals may be more annoyed by the new neighbours..."

The GBN interviewed a local who did clearly say the flats were marketed and then were not.

A company has just bought a block of 4 Victorian terraced townhouses (£1.75M) arranged as a 41 bed hotel here on Plymouth hoe, all kept very quiet on change of use, to what appears to be a similar use for asylum, people have to live somewhere.

How do labour intend to deal with these issues and the cost to voters

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

I'd imagine locals may be more annoyed by the new neighbours..."

I haven't seen anything about that...

I found this from the local council

https://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/your-council/news-and-your-views/council-news/news-releases/january-2024/home-office-asylum-accommodation-council-statement/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was, it seems, labour analysis that brought you this subject.

"He added that a Labour government would bring the Armed Forces Covenant, which sets out the moral obligation that government and businesses owe to veterans, into law."

Whether these are helpful ideas or not, they are policies.

I’d assume starmer has read the parliamentary briefing paper 9716, 02 Feb 2023, page 6 confirms 96.2% of Mod homes meet the decent homes standard and 87.9% meet the decent homes plus standard

So what does he mean about the “poor state” of MOD housing. Or is it just an unfair dig at government in the face of reliable data he failed to read. "
decent homes appears to be a low bar. Free of serious hazards. Reasonable state of repair. Reasonably modern facilities.

Which may be why HMG have commited to a reveiw the definition.

The government accept that new contractors are not meeting standards.

That paper also only covers family homes. Which is only about a quarter of all homes.

I suspect that labours position is we should be having a better standards than reasonable. You can't read that report and feel it's a glowing report that your numbers suggest. (Or maybe you can. I couldn't.)

And that this should apply for both single and families. Do you have the similar numbers for the 75pc of accomodation ?

(Btw, not a labour supporter. This is from simply questioning the narrative)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

I'd imagine locals may be more annoyed by the new neighbours...

The GBN interviewed a local who did clearly say the flats were marketed and then were not.

How do labour intend to deal with these issues and the cost to voters "
this is all the symptom of wider policy imo. There is a market to house asylum seekers because there is a growing backlog (despite the historic back log being cleared

). Now, there has been a spike, however that spike is from Albania. However this backlog has been growing for ten years, so started when applications were low.

So the question is what policies can help improve this. Tory answer it seems is to throw money at it and take up more housing stock. They have shown willing to process quicker however this has been through almost automating the backlog (via questionnaires) rather than get a decent level of case managers. Credit where it is due, they have I believe taken better approaches with managing Albanians.

They have also thrown money at schemes that just won't work. Eg Rwanda. What's that £250m ATM. Possibly 300. And that's not including the cost per person.

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

Your example is 2m for 40 people (bargain!).

Tho there may be additional costs here too. It needs some transparency for the public to compare costs.

Labour have irrc talked about holding people offshore to reduce costs (but UK processing so not Rwanda scheme). That feels sensible.

But imo the key part is processing quicker yet safer. Be interesting to know how many cases someone can do per year and compare that to housing costs.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

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By *ired_upMan
over a year ago

ashton

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

I'd imagine locals may be more annoyed by the new neighbours...

The GBN interviewed a local who did clearly say the flats were marketed and then were not.

How do labour intend to deal with these issues and the cost to voters "

Let people apply before they arrive, process others who arrive in other ways who do not qualify to pre-apply. Then either approve them to work and pay tax or send them home.

People have to live somewhere and hotels are the cheapest way to house lots of people.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

£113m reported. Contracts worth £996m a year. 19 year contracts.

In the range £40-50 per person per night. Would expect those flats will be £1k a week Inc bills.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

£47.39 pp pn. - asylum support on gov website.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

£113m reported. Contracts worth £996m a year. 19 year contracts.

In the range £40-50 per person per night. Would expect those flats will be £1k a week Inc bills. "
so HMG are paying 3x the market rate ?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

£47.39 pp pn. - asylum support on gov website. "

I meant that actual cost for the flats. There's no way Clearsprings are paying even 1k and accepting only 48 pp pn for these.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

"
This company / Graham king fella sounds... Interesting.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

£47.39 pp pn. - asylum support on gov website.

I meant that actual cost for the flats. There's no way Clearsprings are paying even 1k and accepting only 48 pp pn for these. "

I meant they will be charging £1k a week.

It is a rent to rent model. They will give taken the flats at a bit below market value say £1200 a month on a 10 year lease. They will be paid per person on an agreed home office rate.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Farnborough is 8m pa for over 300 (assuming HMG paid market rates which they shouldn't as a bulk buyer)

This facility is being provided by Clearsprings, they same clear springs that have over 100m profit from housing asylum seekers.

I'd be very interested in what this is actually costing. I highly doubt we'll ever find out though.

£113m reported. Contracts worth £996m a year. 19 year contracts.

In the range £40-50 per person per night. Would expect those flats will be £1k a week Inc bills. so HMG are paying 3x the market rate ? "

£8m pa for 300

£75 pp pn. That’s a lot more than the figure I saw on hmg web.

Not that I’m doubting either figure taxpayer paying dearly for this.

While 10,000 empty mod homes standing empty.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"What will Labour have to say on Monday about the breaking story of home office taking over 100 new Surrey luxury flats to house newly arrived migrants.

Is this the one in Farnborough?

Yes I believe so, appears to be GB news only. Why mainstream not allowed to report on it

I have just this minute looked this up and if it is as being reported, I'm disgusted at the decision to do this.

A new conversion of a former office block is my understanding

I'd imagine locals may be more annoyed by the new neighbours..."

How long they had been vacant for was one of my questions. When I say been vacant for a while I was thinking a year or more. September was not so long and if the other poster is correct then they have not been on the market for even that long. Not sure why you say that the locals are upset with the actual asylum seekers being their neighbours instead of the flats being denied to them. Maybe feisty was right about showing any concerns around asylum seekers attracts accusations of racism.

(closed, thread got too big)

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