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"I think a fair few people have been quoting their figures of deaths of civilians and children. The IDF have found tunnels weapons and shafts underneath every single school sponsored by the UN. Maybe it's time we stopped using them as a source of information people? The un allowed their funds to be misappropriated. I'm shocked that there wasn't any level.of due diligence to how funds were being spent t. Either way.i think we can dispense of the idea the unrwa is reliable" I agree, the IDF are an unreliable source of information.  | |||
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"I think a fair few people have been quoting their figures of deaths of civilians and children. The IDF have found tunnels weapons and shafts underneath every single school sponsored by the UN. Maybe it's time we stopped using them as a source of information people? The un allowed their funds to be misappropriated. I'm shocked that there wasn't any level.of due diligence to how funds were being spent t. Either way.i think we can dispense of the idea the unrwa is reliable" The IDF propaganda machine is needed to go into overdrive.. Keep isreali civilians happy and justify the humanitarian crisis it's caused in Gaza. One of its objectives was to rescue hostages, but seeing as they are out to kill anything that moves ended up shooting hostages waving white flags. Nothing to celebrate! The IDF propaganda can't be trusted | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look." Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in?" Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far." You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. | |||
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"I think a fair few people have been quoting their figures of deaths of civilians and children. The IDF have found tunnels weapons and shafts underneath every single school sponsored by the UN. Maybe it's time we stopped using them as a source of information people? The un allowed their funds to be misappropriated. I'm shocked that there wasn't any level.of due diligence to how funds were being spent t. Either way.i think we can dispense of the idea the unrwa is reliable The IDF propaganda machine is needed to go into overdrive.. Keep isreali civilians happy and justify the humanitarian crisis it's caused in Gaza. One of its objectives was to rescue hostages, but seeing as they are out to kill anything that moves ended up shooting hostages waving white flags. Nothing to celebrate! The IDF propaganda can't be trusted " Israel didn't cause the shite hole in Gaza Hamas did so they deserve it but of tough loving merry Christmas | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far." what's point in having rules of engagement when one side doesn't care then people get upset when the other side decides not to either its war by its nature people die. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. " We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up." Any views on Hamas fucking up? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? " Good point, what about something else? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? " I dunno ... The palisitinians fight back just because Isreal build illegal settlements in palistine land, apartheid them, causing poverty, laying seige and brutalising palisitinians for seventy fucking years, and the palisitinians having the sheer ordacity to fight back! Unbelievable isn't it _otme66  | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far." | |||
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"Those pesky palisitinians fight Isreal, just because 50 Years of Settlements 600,000+ Jewish settlers living on occupied Palestinian land 100,000+ Hectares of land seized by Israel from Palestinians since 1967 50,000 Homes and structures demolished by Israel in the occupied lands they nicked, 4 million (minus the 20,000 killed lately) Palestinians facing daily restrictions on their lives, produce from the land sold by Isreal to profit from illegal land grabs... Jeez I dunno , and they attack Isreal just because of that eh ?" Every post you make, tells me you know very little. You regurgitate terrorist propaganda | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? " Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them." And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles." I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. " Why do you think that? The IDF have demonstrated many times in the past that they're comfortable bombing and shooting Palestinian civilians. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. Why do you think that? The IDF have demonstrated many times in the past that they're comfortable bombing and shooting Palestinian civilians. " They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they. Do you think hamas should surrender? | |||
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"Kill em, kill them ALL" Thanks for the contribution | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. " so if hamas dont play by the rules and that makes them monsters and the idf aint playing by the rules that makes the idf just as bad as hamas so they should stop taking the moral high ground | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. so if hamas dont play by the rules and that makes them monsters and the idf aint playing by the rules that makes the idf just as bad as hamas so they should stop taking the moral high ground" Playing by the rules or taking the moral high ground, however people describe it is in my opinion part of the miscalculation. Hamas expected them to do these things but Israel are not so bothered about them as Hamas had expected. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. Why do you think that? The IDF have demonstrated many times in the past that they're comfortable bombing and shooting Palestinian civilians. They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they. " Of course they knew what would happen. You seem to consistently confuse opposing mass killings of civilians with support for Hamas. I can confirm these two things are not the same. " Do you think hamas should surrender?" Do you think marmite should be free for pensioners? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. so if hamas dont play by the rules and that makes them monsters and the idf aint playing by the rules that makes the idf just as bad as hamas so they should stop taking the moral high ground" there is no high ground it's a race to see who can eradicate the other one first | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. so if hamas dont play by the rules and that makes them monsters and the idf aint playing by the rules that makes the idf just as bad as hamas so they should stop taking the moral high ground Playing by the rules or taking the moral high ground, however people describe it is in my opinion part of the miscalculation. Hamas expected them to do these things but Israel are not so bothered about them as Hamas had expected. " again idf are not botherd about the rules just like hamas aint, therefore the idf are just as bad i wonder how many more of there own hostages they are gonna gun down, but hey thats ok if they think there palastinian civillians | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they " Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned " Do you think hamas should surrender? " How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. " Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles." While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down." The soldiers involved fucked up, but you are expecting them not to! I think you have some imaginary vision of how things played out that led up to the fuck up that would not resemble the reality. I’m sure you would be fine in a hostile position in a hostile environment as you casually weigh up your options as you go through a closed door…… | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. I think playing by the rules is the miscalculation that Hamas made. They are more than happy to not play by the rules in the expectation that Israel would play by the rules when it retaliated. They expected the human shields, otherwise known as the local population of Gaza to keep Israel at bay. so if hamas dont play by the rules and that makes them monsters and the idf aint playing by the rules that makes the idf just as bad as hamas so they should stop taking the moral high ground Playing by the rules or taking the moral high ground, however people describe it is in my opinion part of the miscalculation. Hamas expected them to do these things but Israel are not so bothered about them as Hamas had expected. again idf are not botherd about the rules just like hamas aint, therefore the idf are just as bad i wonder how many more of there own hostages they are gonna gun down, but hey thats ok if they think there palastinian civillians " How people judge each side is up to them but that's not what my post was about. My post was about a miscalculation by Hamas regarding the response from Israel. It's just my opinion but I think Hamas was not expecting this scale and intensity from Israel and thought using innocents as human shields would protect them. | |||
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"Well this post hasn't been answered so I'll ask again... 50 Years of Settlements 600,000+ Jewish settlers living on occupied Palestinian land 100,000+ Hectares of land seized by Israel from Palestinians since 1967 50,000 Homes and structures demolished by Israel in the occupied lands they nicked, 4 million (minus the 20,000 killed lately) Palestinians facing daily restrictions on their lives, produce from the land sold by Isreal to profit from illegal land grabs... 68 UN resolutions against isreali illegal activity do far that they've ignored. Though I don't agree with the 7 October attacks I can understand how Isreal li brutality over decades inadvertently created the ideology of hamas. Can someone tell me if palisitinians should accept the above and surrender? " I don’t think any of that justifies what Hamas did on 7th October. I do think what Israel has done and is now doing is also unjustified. I think as long as both sides continue to kill innocents on each side then there can never be peace. Both sides are at fault over the last 70+ years. Also at fault are countries like Iran who are fighting a proxy war. It’s fucked up. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down." I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. The soldiers involved fucked up, but you are expecting them not to! I think you have some imaginary vision of how things played out that led up to the fuck up that would not resemble the reality. I’m sure you would be fine in a hostile position in a hostile environment as you casually weigh up your options as you go through a closed door…… " Again focus on the specific examples. If you cannot do that and keep throwing put imaginary scenarios rather than real examples, I can only conclude you do not want an honest discussion. Do you know how snipers operate? I suspect you do. They have time and patience to select their targets (they are not kicking in a closed door not knowing what is behind). | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper?" That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying?" I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. " Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened." As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre  | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel " You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. " I have mentioned a number of times that the loss of life on both sides is wrong, it hasn't registered with you because you are to busy discrediting Jews being in Israel to notice. Your understanding is limited around the history of the region and its people which you have demonstrated time and time again, if you took some time to understand it might do you some good. I know as I type this I'm wasting my time, which I wont continue to do further on this subject with you. | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. I have mentioned a number of times that the loss of life on both sides is wrong, it hasn't registered with you because you are to busy discrediting Jews being in Israel to notice. Your understanding is limited around the history of the region and its people which you have demonstrated time and time again, if you took some time to understand it might do you some good. I know as I type this I'm wasting my time, which I wont continue to do further on this subject with you. " You think that if hamas surrenders all will be peace ant tranquility and all will be forgiven.. it won't be. Isreal will continue in its heavy handed way and illegal opression and more palisitinians would take to violence in endless retaliation. That's Isreal's flaw in its policies.. it's a victim of of its own brutality .. they are the root cause of hamas.. not the palisitinians | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. The soldiers involved fucked up, but you are expecting them not to! I think you have some imaginary vision of how things played out that led up to the fuck up that would not resemble the reality. I’m sure you would be fine in a hostile position in a hostile environment as you casually weigh up your options as you go through a closed door…… Again focus on the specific examples. If you cannot do that and keep throwing put imaginary scenarios rather than real examples, I can only conclude you do not want an honest discussion. Do you know how snipers operate? I suspect you do. They have time and patience to select their targets (they are not kicking in a closed door not knowing what is behind)." I concentrated on the one example you have provided that the IDF confirmed happened. Yet you have decided to ignore that and take my words from the known about and apply them to the very thing I did not comment on. Why? | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. I have mentioned a number of times that the loss of life on both sides is wrong, it hasn't registered with you because you are to busy discrediting Jews being in Israel to notice. Your understanding is limited around the history of the region and its people which you have demonstrated time and time again, if you took some time to understand it might do you some good. I know as I type this I'm wasting my time, which I wont continue to do further on this subject with you. You think that if hamas surrenders all will be peace ant tranquility and all will be forgiven.. it won't be. Isreal will continue in its heavy handed way and illegal opression and more palisitinians would take to violence in endless retaliation. That's Isreal's flaw in its policies.. it's a victim of of its own brutality .. they are the root cause of hamas.. not the palisitinians " As I said I am not going to keep going back and forth on this, unless you can start to show some understanding of the region and the people. I'm not trying to be rude, it is important that it is understood or endless and aimless conversations such as ours will continue for no reason | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. I have mentioned a number of times that the loss of life on both sides is wrong, it hasn't registered with you because you are to busy discrediting Jews being in Israel to notice. Your understanding is limited around the history of the region and its people which you have demonstrated time and time again, if you took some time to understand it might do you some good. I know as I type this I'm wasting my time, which I wont continue to do further on this subject with you. You think that if hamas surrenders all will be peace ant tranquility and all will be forgiven.. it won't be. Isreal will continue in its heavy handed way and illegal opression and more palisitinians would take to violence in endless retaliation. That's Isreal's flaw in its policies.. it's a victim of of its own brutality .. they are the root cause of hamas.. not the palisitinians As I said I am not going to keep going back and forth on this, unless you can start to show some understanding of the region and the people. I'm not trying to be rude, it is important that it is understood or endless and aimless conversations such as ours will continue for no reason " What your talking about is the continuation of war and how to win it. No i don't know how snipers operate. I'm telling you there's an alternative to war by getting Isreal to stop giving the palisitinians a reason to fight. That is Isreal abiding by the UN resolutions against it, plus the two state solution. Some disagree but that's another story | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. I have mentioned a number of times that the loss of life on both sides is wrong, it hasn't registered with you because you are to busy discrediting Jews being in Israel to notice. Your understanding is limited around the history of the region and its people which you have demonstrated time and time again, if you took some time to understand it might do you some good. I know as I type this I'm wasting my time, which I wont continue to do further on this subject with you. You think that if hamas surrenders all will be peace ant tranquility and all will be forgiven.. it won't be. Isreal will continue in its heavy handed way and illegal opression and more palisitinians would take to violence in endless retaliation. That's Isreal's flaw in its policies.. it's a victim of of its own brutality .. they are the root cause of hamas.. not the palisitinians As I said I am not going to keep going back and forth on this, unless you can start to show some understanding of the region and the people. I'm not trying to be rude, it is important that it is understood or endless and aimless conversations such as ours will continue for no reason What your talking about is the continuation of war and how to win it. No i don't know how snipers operate. I'm telling you there's an alternative to war by getting Isreal to stop giving the palisitinians a reason to fight. That is Isreal abiding by the UN resolutions against it, plus the two state solution. Some disagree but that's another story " The two state solution is dead. People need to stop wasting their breath talking about it. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre "https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html"Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any mention of the Pope in this article let alone a quote from him. All I see is 'the Patriarch said'. Has anyone from the Vatican made a statement or do we just have news articles? | |||
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" They knew the response a terrorist attack would bring? Smart aren't they Both Isreal and hamas have proven to not being overly concerned Do you think hamas should surrender? How does an ideology surrender? That's like asking if Christmas should surrender. Pathetic, not 1 person looking for Hamas to surrender. Speaks volumes and you have the nerve to call into question Palestinian death rate…. If you want a humane and swift end it is simple, but you don’t you want Hamas to remove Israel You fail to see the disproportionate response by Isreal. You seem to justify the carnage and that's your problem. I have mentioned a number of times that the loss of life on both sides is wrong, it hasn't registered with you because you are to busy discrediting Jews being in Israel to notice. Your understanding is limited around the history of the region and its people which you have demonstrated time and time again, if you took some time to understand it might do you some good. I know as I type this I'm wasting my time, which I wont continue to do further on this subject with you. You think that if hamas surrenders all will be peace ant tranquility and all will be forgiven.. it won't be. Isreal will continue in its heavy handed way and illegal opression and more palisitinians would take to violence in endless retaliation. That's Isreal's flaw in its policies.. it's a victim of of its own brutality .. they are the root cause of hamas.. not the palisitinians As I said I am not going to keep going back and forth on this, unless you can start to show some understanding of the region and the people. I'm not trying to be rude, it is important that it is understood or endless and aimless conversations such as ours will continue for no reason What your talking about is the continuation of war and how to win it. No i don't know how snipers operate. I'm telling you there's an alternative to war by getting Isreal to stop giving the palisitinians a reason to fight. That is Isreal abiding by the UN resolutions against it, plus the two state solution. Some disagree but that's another story The two state solution is dead. People need to stop wasting their breath talking about it." Well people should be at least putting pressure on Isreal regarding illegally occupied land. I can accept Isreal would argue holding military on the Golan heights and would be reasonable but could be held by UN peacekeeping forces. The UN though is too weak. Especially with American interest in a middle Eastern Ally | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look." The IDF is absolutely and certainly fucking up. There is us no question. Their fuck ups are not only regrettable, but are sometimes unconscionable. In some cases, the behaviour of individuals is evil, intentional and morally wrong, it's a big army and a percentage of all people will be unsuitable. That is why there is a system to investigate and punish those who are both negligent and criminally liable. It might not be a perfect system, some may not agree with all decisions, but it exists and operates. The real wonder is that not more fuck-ups occur (and of course there are more we don't know about) given the circumstances and that the IDF will occasionally own up to these, even in a war. When PIJ fucked up and bombed a hospital, they doubled down on their lie and blamed Israel. War is never a precise game of tag with soldiers killing soldiers in a civilised duel. Urban warfare and asymmetric even less so. This is why so many countries are pushing for a ceasefire (or an alternative resolution), there is never a war without fuck ups. This is also why Jeremy Corbyn said that the West should just sit back and let Ukraine be taken over, rather than be subjected to war. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any mention of the Pope in this article let alone a quote from him. All I see is 'the Patriarch said'.
Has anyone from the Vatican made a statement or do we just have news articles?"No idea but are you saying The Vatican News are lying? Are you saying the Patriarch is lying? Why would they do that? What fo they gain? Now if it was a report on muslims by a Muslim news source I might be more sceptical. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. The IDF is absolutely and certainly fucking up. There is us no question. Their fuck ups are not only regrettable, but are sometimes unconscionable. In some cases, the behaviour of individuals is evil, intentional and morally wrong, it's a big army and a percentage of all people will be unsuitable. That is why there is a system to investigate and punish those who are both negligent and criminally liable. It might not be a perfect system, some may not agree with all decisions, but it exists and operates. The real wonder is that not more fuck-ups occur (and of course there are more we don't know about) given the circumstances and that the IDF will occasionally own up to these, even in a war. When PIJ fucked up and bombed a hospital, they doubled down on their lie and blamed Israel. War is never a precise game of tag with soldiers killing soldiers in a civilised duel. Urban warfare and asymmetric even less so. This is why so many countries are pushing for a ceasefire (or an alternative resolution), there is never a war without fuck ups. This is also why Jeremy Corbyn said that the West should just sit back and let Ukraine be taken over, rather than be subjected to war." Agreed. So my statement stands. The IDF are fucking up. Not sure why some people (not you) seems to want to argue against that point or try to disprove or justify or even try whataboutism. I find it weird that anyone in this country would take issue with a statement that the IDF are fucking up. Making a statement like that is neither supportive of Hamas or anti Israel. It is simply saying the IDF are fucking up. Hopefully the two incidents I raised are properly and independently investigated rather than simply and blindly believing IDF denials or excuses. If they start killing Christians they will start to lose sympathy in the West. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any mention of the Pope in this article let alone a quote from him. All I see is 'the Patriarch said'.
Has anyone from the Vatican made a statement or do we just have news articles?
No idea but are you saying The Vatican News are lying? Are you saying the Patriarch is lying? Why would they do that? What fo they gain? Now if it was a report on muslims by a Muslim news source I might be more sceptical. "I haven't said anyone is lying, I'm saying these reports are unverified. It just so happens that it's not the first time unverified reports have come from that very church yet we are told everything they say is true. Stop for a minute and use your own brain. | |||
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" If they start killing Christians they will start to lose sympathy in the West. " If it happens, it is highly unlikely that it's intentional. They're is everything to lose and nothing to gain. But it's almost inevitable, as it's almost inevitable that my more hostages will be killed. What has been unleashed has few winners. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any mention of the Pope in this article let alone a quote from him. All I see is 'the Patriarch said'.
Has anyone from the Vatican made a statement or do we just have news articles?
No idea but are you saying The Vatican News are lying? Are you saying the Patriarch is lying? Why would they do that? What fo they gain? Now if it was a report on muslims by a Muslim news source I might be more sceptical.
I haven't said anyone is lying, I'm saying these reports are unverified. It just so happens that it's not the first time unverified reports have come from that very church yet we are told everything they say is true.
Stop for a minute and use your own brain. "Ah ok I wasn’t aware of that. What have they said before? How was this proven wrong? | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any mention of the Pope in this article let alone a quote from him. All I see is 'the Patriarch said'.
Has anyone from the Vatican made a statement or do we just have news articles?
No idea but are you saying The Vatican News are lying? Are you saying the Patriarch is lying? Why would they do that? What fo they gain? Now if it was a report on muslims by a Muslim news source I might be more sceptical.
I haven't said anyone is lying, I'm saying these reports are unverified. It just so happens that it's not the first time unverified reports have come from that very church yet we are told everything they say is true.
Stop for a minute and use your own brain.
Ah ok I wasn’t aware of that. What have they said before? How was this proven wrong?"I'm not sure what game you're trying to play here. I said unverified, not wrong. Seems you have a taste for misquoting today so I'll bow out now. Enjoy your evening. | |||
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" If they start killing Christians they will start to lose sympathy in the West. If it happens, it is highly unlikely that it's intentional. They're is everything to lose and nothing to gain. But it's almost inevitable, as it's almost inevitable that my more hostages will be killed. What has been unleashed has few winners." The sniper will likely be claimed to be a lone wolf. Not easy to mistake a Church compound for anything else. And it was two women. Hard to fathom mistaking that for Hamas fighters! | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in? Why? I am stating something that happened in past week. Why do we need comparisons? Does it make it ok? To me it is starting to feel out of control, like a killing spree. I think Israel is going too far. You said the IDF are fucking up, to understand your measurement of fucking up, I was asking for a country that you know of that has been in a war that didn’t fuck up. We don’t need a measure. Killing your own people who were waving a white flag and wearing no tops (to show they are not wearing explosives) while shouting in Hebrew is a fuck up. An IDF sniper shooting two Christians who were within a Church compound is a fuck up. Any views on Hamas fucking up? Hamas are terrorists. They do not abide by civilised rules. They are scum and THEY deserve to be eradicated but not what is increasingly like the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Hamas are cowards who hide behind civilians. But in my book you don’t deliberately kill the civilians to get to them. And this why the IDF will keep on fucking up. They are not fighting an enemy that is playing by the rules, the IDF are soldiers and human. They will be entering traps and setups all day long as they wind their way through the houses and tunnels. They will fuck up as they see another civilian who turns out to be a hamas terrorist about to pull the trigger or set off a device, right in front of them. To think they wont shows a naivety to the situation. I'm not saying mistakes should be brushed off and played down, I'm saying they will happen in close quarter street battles. While I accept during war there is FUBAR the two examples I gave are extreme fuck ups and avoidable. The IDF had a SNIPER posted aiming at a Christian church compound and shot two women moving from one building within the compound to another in the compound. This church is a known location to the IDF. The other was also clearly avoidable as the individuals were clearly no threat and turned put to be Israelis! Come on NotMe you are arguing against common sense here. It is not me being naive. The IDF need to calm down. I'm not clued up on this but has anyone confirmed that these 2 women were taken out by an IDF sniper? That is the claim by the Christian Patriarch and Church representatives. Not sure what they gain by lying? I'm not sure what they gain either but it's interesting, snipers generally aren't seen nor heard. Yet someone says he/she was Israeli and its taken as gospel. Oh come on are we REALLY going to go down this route. Next we’ll see demands for evidence or “have you actually seen the leaked documents” yadda yadda yadda. I suspect the Pope and his advisors are politically astute enough to determine whether to announce something like this. So unless we are going to start accusing the Pope of being pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli or antisemitic then I think we know this happened. As far as I'm aware the pope didn't name Israel. I just find it astounding that in a war riddled with lies, anything blamed on Israel is to be believed without question. This statement is no different to so many other statements thrown out against Israel, unconfirmed but believed nonetheless. You like to say 'oh come on' quite often, because people ask for verification, it's a little bizarre
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any mention of the Pope in this article let alone a quote from him. All I see is 'the Patriarch said'.
Has anyone from the Vatican made a statement or do we just have news articles?
No idea but are you saying The Vatican News are lying? Are you saying the Patriarch is lying? Why would they do that? What fo they gain? Now if it was a report on muslims by a Muslim news source I might be more sceptical.
I haven't said anyone is lying, I'm saying these reports are unverified. It just so happens that it's not the first time unverified reports have come from that very church yet we are told everything they say is true.
Stop for a minute and use your own brain.
Ah ok I wasn’t aware of that. What have they said before? How was this proven wrong?
I'm not sure what game you're trying to play here. I said unverified, not wrong.
Seems you have a taste for misquoting today so I'll bow out now. Enjoy your evening. "No game just trying to get clarification. Apologies trying to multitask. So what unverified reports came from this church? What else do we know about it? | |||
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"I think a fair few people have been quoting their figures of deaths of civilians and children. The IDF have found tunnels weapons and shafts underneath every single school sponsored by the UN. Maybe it's time we stopped using them as a source of information people? The un allowed their funds to be misappropriated. I'm shocked that there wasn't any level.of due diligence to how funds were being spent t. Either way.i think we can dispense of the idea the unrwa is reliable I agree, the IDF are an unreliable source of information. "No. They are completely reliable and sharing all info. You see those videos of the tunnels. You see the UN actually confirming they exist. | |||
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"What worries me is that some people on here appear to support the deaths of civilians on one side or another. Some appear to justify the Palestinian killings but not the Israeli killings or vice versa, showing an unbalanced bias for the human right of life on one side, but not the other? (X suffered so the response is justified by Y) I'm a little concerned that there may be a little bit of deeply rooted xenophobia in some responses. " It does feel a bit like that at times. | |||
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"I think a fair few people have been quoting their figures of deaths of civilians and children. The IDF have found tunnels weapons and shafts underneath every single school sponsored by the UN. Maybe it's time we stopped using them as a source of information people? The un allowed their funds to be misappropriated. I'm shocked that there wasn't any level.of due diligence to how funds were being spent t. Either way.i think we can dispense of the idea the unrwa is reliable" The more interesting question is why UNRWA exists, even there have been much more numerous and violent refugee crises before and after their establishment. Why are Palestinians the only people with a bespoke agency and hereditary refugee status? It does not necessarily act in the best interests of the Palestinians (although it sometimes tries), but rather the surrounding countries. It prevented them from integrating into the broader Arab world in the way that Jews expelled from Arab lands integrated into Israel following their expulsions. It gives Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, etc. license to discriminate against these eternal "refugees". It's almost as if people have a vested interest in maintaining the festering sore that is the refugee status of Palestinians. There is an argument to be made for justice for Palestinians who have been dispossessed, but it's a much muddier picture than simply maintaining a right to return, or the dismantling of Israel. | |||
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"I think a fair few people have been quoting their figures of deaths of civilians and children. The IDF have found tunnels weapons and shafts underneath every single school sponsored by the UN. Maybe it's time we stopped using them as a source of information people? The un allowed their funds to be misappropriated. I'm shocked that there wasn't any level.of due diligence to how funds were being spent t. Either way.i think we can dispense of the idea the unrwa is reliable The more interesting question is why UNRWA exists, even there have been much more numerous and violent refugee crises before and after their establishment. Why are Palestinians the only people with a bespoke agency and hereditary refugee status? It does not necessarily act in the best interests of the Palestinians (although it sometimes tries), but rather the surrounding countries. It prevented them from integrating into the broader Arab world in the way that Jews expelled from Arab lands integrated into Israel following their expulsions. It gives Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, etc. license to discriminate against these eternal "refugees". It's almost as if people have a vested interest in maintaining the festering sore that is the refugee status of Palestinians. There is an argument to be made for justice for Palestinians who have been dispossessed, but it's a much muddier picture than simply maintaining a right to return, or the dismantling of Israel." "In 1949, the UN General Assembly established two different UN refugee agencies – the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) – to respond to distinct refugee crises. The UN General Assembly provided these Agencies with complementary mandates to assist and protect refugees, as laid out in relevant instruments, including the Statute of UNHCR (adopted by a General Assembly resolution) and the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (an international treaty). Neither UNRWA nor UNHCR can unilaterally change these instruments." Given much of refugee convention seems to have come from ww2 and the fall out, this also seems to be a function. Also "Under international law and the principle of family unity, the children of refugees and their descendants are also considered refugees until a durable solution is found. As stated by the United Nations,this principle applies to all refugees and both UNRWA and UNHCR have recognized descendants as refugees on this basis." Finally, integrating palenstians into a new country feels somewhat different to integrating Jewish people into israel, given why Israel was created. | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. The IDF is absolutely and certainly fucking up. There is us no question. Their fuck ups are not only regrettable, but are sometimes unconscionable. In some cases, the behaviour of individuals is evil, intentional and morally wrong, it's a big army and a percentage of all people will be unsuitable. That is why there is a system to investigate and punish those who are both negligent and criminally liable. It might not be a perfect system, some may not agree with all decisions, but it exists and operates. The real wonder is that not more fuck-ups occur (and of course there are more we don't know about) given the circumstances and that the IDF will occasionally own up to these, even in a war. When PIJ fucked up and bombed a hospital, they doubled down on their lie and blamed Israel. War is never a precise game of tag with soldiers killing soldiers in a civilised duel. Urban warfare and asymmetric even less so. This is why so many countries are pushing for a ceasefire (or an alternative resolution), there is never a war without fuck ups. This is also why Jeremy Corbyn said that the West should just sit back and let Ukraine be taken over, rather than be subjected to war. Agreed. So my statement stands. The IDF are fucking up. Not sure why some people (not you) seems to want to argue against that point or try to disprove or justify or even try whataboutism. I find it weird that anyone in this country would take issue with a statement that the IDF are fucking up. Making a statement like that is neither supportive of Hamas or anti Israel. It is simply saying the IDF are fucking up. Hopefully the two incidents I raised are properly and independently investigated rather than simply and blindly believing IDF denials or excuses. If they start killing Christians they will start to lose sympathy in the West. " You have lost me completely and I think yourself... What is your point? Not one person has said that the IDF has, as you put it fucked up, in some situations, and yet you continue to argue the point. You are usually a lot more measured than this | |||
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"IDF are fucking up. Shooting Israeli white flag holders. Shooting Christians in a church compound. Not a good look. The IDF is absolutely and certainly fucking up. There is us no question. Their fuck ups are not only regrettable, but are sometimes unconscionable. In some cases, the behaviour of individuals is evil, intentional and morally wrong, it's a big army and a percentage of all people will be unsuitable. That is why there is a system to investigate and punish those who are both negligent and criminally liable. It might not be a perfect system, some may not agree with all decisions, but it exists and operates. The real wonder is that not more fuck-ups occur (and of course there are more we don't know about) given the circumstances and that the IDF will occasionally own up to these, even in a war. When PIJ fucked up and bombed a hospital, they doubled down on their lie and blamed Israel. War is never a precise game of tag with soldiers killing soldiers in a civilised duel. Urban warfare and asymmetric even less so. This is why so many countries are pushing for a ceasefire (or an alternative resolution), there is never a war without fuck ups. This is also why Jeremy Corbyn said that the West should just sit back and let Ukraine be taken over, rather than be subjected to war. Agreed. So my statement stands. The IDF are fucking up. Not sure why some people (not you) seems to want to argue against that point or try to disprove or justify or even try whataboutism. I find it weird that anyone in this country would take issue with a statement that the IDF are fucking up. Making a statement like that is neither supportive of Hamas or anti Israel. It is simply saying the IDF are fucking up. Hopefully the two incidents I raised are properly and independently investigated rather than simply and blindly believing IDF denials or excuses. If they start killing Christians they will start to lose sympathy in the West. You have lost me completely and I think yourself... What is your point? Not one person has said that the IDF has, as you put it fucked up, in some situations, and yet you continue to argue the point. You are usually a lot more measured than this" Sorry NotMe but on this occasion I think the same could be said of you. The whole conversation started because I stated the IDF were fucking up and your first reply was: "Name one war that a side didn’t fuck up in?" You went on to seemingly try to excuse or justify the IDF actions. Another poster then did the classic “it isn’t verified” ergo it didn’t happen or I don’t believe it argument implying the Church was lying and it was just the media (despite it being The Vatican News ie the official comms channel for the Pope). I am keen to understand how you verify if the IDF deny but won’t allow independent investigation? My point was straightforward but as always there are some on here who would seemingly try to create an argument in an empty room. I am not sure why that is necessary? The IDF are fucking up. If they aren’t careful they will lose sympathy and support in the West. Hamas are evil bastards who should be hunted down and killed but I think Israel's response is too much and disproportional now. I care that too many innocent people have died on both sides. I have stated that in many threads so not sure what is unclear on my position? | |||
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Another war crime that Isreal will get away with | |||
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