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"Damn right they should be named " They will be when they are of age. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. " they were 15 yr olds when they done it so hardly kids who didnt know what they were doing ffs they had even planned it all out, evil little fuckers who should never see the outside world again | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. they were 15 yr olds when they done it so hardly kids who didnt know what they were doing ffs they had even planned it all out, evil little fuckers who should never see the outside world again" They knew exactly what they were doing | |||
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"Damn right they should be named They will be when they are of age. " They will be at sentencing (BBC news). | |||
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"Damn right they should be named They will be when they are of age. They will be at sentencing (BBC news)." I'll believe it when I see it | |||
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"Ship them off to Austrilia, isn't that what we did with Jamie Bulgers killers." nope they were in a young offenders at Barton manchester untill they turned 18 neigbour at the time was a screw who looked after them .he always said venebles was a fucked up little cunt | |||
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"Yes they should be named. It's now going to cost the tax payers many hundreds of thousands of pounds to take care of them, social workers, counselling, therapy, schooling, access to NHS dentist (something that many people don't get), doctors, probably housed in facility that's designed to be reasonably comfortable and almost home like so not to cause any discomfort or emotional stress. What they did wasn't an accident, wasn't spur of the moment it was callous and premeditated. They should not be given any excuses or sympathy. I see the apologist's have already started trying to blame it on ADHD (many thousands of people have this and don't mur der people) Apparently they have showed zero remorse or sympathy." As someone who has been in a secure children's home I can tell you it is not at all like home so you are chatting nonsense. Can someone say, apart from 'i want to know' what practical effect it will have on your life if you know their names? | |||
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"Yes they should be named. It's now going to cost the tax payers many hundreds of thousands of pounds to take care of them, social workers, counselling, therapy, schooling, access to NHS dentist (something that many people don't get), doctors, probably housed in facility that's designed to be reasonably comfortable and almost home like so not to cause any discomfort or emotional stress. What they did wasn't an accident, wasn't spur of the moment it was callous and premeditated. They should not be given any excuses or sympathy. I see the apologist's have already started trying to blame it on ADHD (many thousands of people have this and don't mur der people) Apparently they have showed zero remorse or sympathy. As someone who has been in a secure children's home I can tell you it is not at all like home so you are chatting nonsense. Can someone say, apart from 'i want to know' what practical effect it will have on your life if you know their names?" I work in them regularly so I'm not chatting nonsense. They are secure yes but also fairly comfortable. But it depends on if you are talking about a secure unit or a young offenders institute? Both are very different and to answer your question knowing names,why not? | |||
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"Yes they should be named. It's now going to cost the tax payers many hundreds of thousands of pounds to take care of them, social workers, counselling, therapy, schooling, access to NHS dentist (something that many people don't get), doctors, probably housed in facility that's designed to be reasonably comfortable and almost home like so not to cause any discomfort or emotional stress. What they did wasn't an accident, wasn't spur of the moment it was callous and premeditated. They should not be given any excuses or sympathy. I see the apologist's have already started trying to blame it on ADHD (many thousands of people have this and don't mur der people) Apparently they have showed zero remorse or sympathy. As someone who has been in a secure children's home I can tell you it is not at all like home so you are chatting nonsense. Can someone say, apart from 'i want to know' what practical effect it will have on your life if you know their names? I work in them regularly so I'm not chatting nonsense. They are secure yes but also fairly comfortable. But it depends on if you are talking about a secure unit or a young offenders institute? Both are very different and to answer your question knowing names,why not? " Yes you are. I'm talking about a secure children's home, which is the up to date terminology. Which you would know if you did work in them. Also no you don't get to turn my question around to get me to justify your position. Your position is you should know their name. Tell us why? | |||
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"Yes they should be named. It's now going to cost the tax payers many hundreds of thousands of pounds to take care of them, social workers, counselling, therapy, schooling, access to NHS dentist (something that many people don't get), doctors, probably housed in facility that's designed to be reasonably comfortable and almost home like so not to cause any discomfort or emotional stress. What they did wasn't an accident, wasn't spur of the moment it was callous and premeditated. They should not be given any excuses or sympathy. I see the apologist's have already started trying to blame it on ADHD (many thousands of people have this and don't mur der people) Apparently they have showed zero remorse or sympathy. As someone who has been in a secure children's home I can tell you it is not at all like home so you are chatting nonsense. Can someone say, apart from 'i want to know' what practical effect it will have on your life if you know their names? I work in them regularly so I'm not chatting nonsense. They are secure yes but also fairly comfortable. But it depends on if you are talking about a secure unit or a young offenders institute? Both are very different and to answer your question knowing names,why not? Yes you are. I'm talking about a secure children's home, which is the up to date terminology. Which you would know if you did work in them. Also no you don't get to turn my question around to get me to justify your position. Your position is you should know their name. Tell us why? " Ahhh only here for an argument you should have said 
Obviously the people who run Feltham Young Offenders institute are clearly not up to date with the correct terminology as yourself perhaps you should pay them a visit and tell them.
Meanwhile I'll carry on in the real world you carry on with trying to start an argument with anyone you can bye.
Happy Christmas | |||
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"I suppose from a victims family standpoint it may provide some comfort that these evil fuckers are named. From a wider public interest piece I can live without knowing. " Reading the story in the news the family of the victim have asked for no reprisals against the families. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. they were 15 yr olds when they done it so hardly kids who didnt know what they were doing ffs they had even planned it all out, evil little fuckers who should never see the outside world again"  | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. " Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging." nope Stephan Clizco | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging." Murder creates bigger problems for more, so keep your hanging out of society | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. " No they are teenagers, adolescents not children In the ghey case The girl is a sociopath and the boy is a psychopath. As these are innate psychological conditions they can not be changed. The only way to prevent these two from killing again is to isolate or terminate | |||
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"After he was first released he was found to have serious child abuse images on his computer.It doesnt take a psychiatrist to workout that he isnt rehabilitated and yet they still wanna release him. How is that right,would you want him living by you or being close to your kids if you have them ? Mary Bell was chased out of Eastbourne i believe, when it was found out who she was and what she'd done ." Who? | |||
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"After he was first released he was found to have serious child abuse images on his computer.It doesnt take a psychiatrist to workout that he isnt rehabilitated and yet they still wanna release him. How is that right,would you want him living by you or being close to your kids if you have them ? Mary Bell was chased out of Eastbourne i believe, when it was found out who she was and what she'd done . Who?" A teen-ager who murdered two young boys served a few years in prison and was released at the age of 23 free to live her life despite taking two innocents and destroying the families. Who said that the British justice system is broken  | |||
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"After he was first released he was found to have serious child abuse images on his computer.It doesnt take a psychiatrist to workout that he isnt rehabilitated and yet they still wanna release him. How is that right,would you want him living by you or being close to your kids if you have them ? Mary Bell was chased out of Eastbourne i believe, when it was found out who she was and what she'd done . Who? A teen-ager who murdered two young boys served a few years in prison and was released at the age of 23 free to live her life despite taking two innocents and destroying the families. Who said that the British justice system is broken "I've heard of Mary. It's the nameless person to was asking about. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging." The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. | |||
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"This country needs to bring back National Service" how would this have helped ? | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. " Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. | |||
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"It bring some discipline into these kids " Or train them how to kill more efficiently. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent." And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. | |||
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"It bring some discipline into these kids " do many countries have national service at 15? | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. " I'd agree with this, Sweden leads the way, and also has (I believe) the smallest percentage of re-offenders in Europe  .
However, we need to get rid of the 'good behaviour' tarrifs, too easy to game. | |||
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"It bring some discipline into these kids " It depends on whether sociopaths are born/made/combination of. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. " it doesn't work because it is underfunded over crowded understaffed resourced and not fit for purpose you cannot rehabilitate someone who is locked in a cell 23 hours a day | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. " I don't agree with death penalty not being a deterrent. Try getting dr*gs in Singapore and you will know if it's a deterrent. I have other reasons to be against death penalty. But it not being a deterrent is not one of these. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. I don't agree with death penalty not being a deterrent. Try getting dr*gs in Singapore and you will know if it's a deterrent. I have other reasons to be against death penalty. But it not being a deterrent is not one of these. " If it was a deterrent, we’d not see immense amounts of gun crime in death penalty states in the USA. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. I don't agree with death penalty not being a deterrent. Try getting dr*gs in Singapore and you will know if it's a deterrent. I have other reasons to be against death penalty. But it not being a deterrent is not one of these. If it was a deterrent, we’d not see immense amounts of gun crime in death penalty states in the USA. " For that, you would have to imagine USA without death penalty to see if it has an impact. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. " You can’t rehabilitate someone who has no interest of engaging with any programme and views being in jail as an occupational hazard, a place to hang out with their mates and somewhere to create a new criminal enterprise. Too many prisoners know how to game the system and sadly too many who possibly could be helped slip through the net or join forces with the aforementioned cohort. Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. | |||
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"Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. " Have you any idea how understaffed the prison service is? What staff turnover is like? Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. I don't agree with death penalty not being a deterrent. Try getting dr*gs in Singapore and you will know if it's a deterrent. I have other reasons to be against death penalty. But it not being a deterrent is not one of these. If it was a deterrent, we’d not see immense amounts of gun crime in death penalty states in the USA. For that, you would have to imagine USA without death penalty to see if it has an impact." Or compare it to other western nations. That’s how data works. | |||
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"Dunno....they are children. It's really difficult to say a blanket rule as ultimately they will need to be re-habilitated and released. Kids that stab and kill of kids aren't kids anymore. Bring back hanging. The criminal justice system in the UK is based on rehabilitation of offenders rather than that of retribution. Yeah and it doesn't work. Hence why so many repeat offenders,no deterrent. And as we see in the US, the death penalty is no deterrent. We need a properly funded prison system which promotes education and rehabilitation rather than locking criminals away for hours on end due to inadequate staffing/resourcing. I don't agree with death penalty not being a deterrent. Try getting dr*gs in Singapore and you will know if it's a deterrent. I have other reasons to be against death penalty. But it not being a deterrent is not one of these. If it was a deterrent, we’d not see immense amounts of gun crime in death penalty states in the USA. For that, you would have to imagine USA without death penalty to see if it has an impact. Or compare it to other western nations. That’s how data works." Comparing a country where everyone has a gun with countries that don't? That's definitely not how it works. If you want to compare against other countries, how about comparing European countries against Japan and Singapore? Both have the lowest murder rates in the world and have death penalty. | |||
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"Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. Have you any idea how understaffed the prison service is? What staff turnover is like? Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons." Remind me of your expertise in this area please | |||
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"Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. Have you any idea how understaffed the prison service is? What staff turnover is like? Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons. Remind me of your expertise in this area please" I’ve done research on the topic, previously. Also have spoke with a prison officer about it. It’s very well documented how high prison staff turnover is, and how understaffed many prisons are. The information is available freely, feel free to look it up | |||
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"Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. Have you any idea how understaffed the prison service is? What staff turnover is like? Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons. Remind me of your expertise in this area please I’ve done research on the topic, previously. Also have spoke with a prison officer about it. It’s very well documented how high prison staff turnover is, and how understaffed many prisons are. The information is available freely, feel free to look it up "So you don’t have any expertise then - much as I thought. I’ll agree that the turnover is high and many prisons are understaffed but that still doesn’t equate to what you think it means. By the way there are 120 prisons in England and Wales that perform a variety of roles. If you think ‘ Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons’ then you’re wrong. How would you propose rehabilitating someone who doesn’t want to (or need to) engage? How much is ‘proper funding’? You may need to do some more research, or accept that some people know a lot more about certain things than you do… | |||
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"Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. Have you any idea how understaffed the prison service is? What staff turnover is like? Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons. Remind me of your expertise in this area please I’ve done research on the topic, previously. Also have spoke with a prison officer about it. It’s very well documented how high prison staff turnover is, and how understaffed many prisons are. The information is available freely, feel free to look it up
So you don’t have any expertise then - much as I thought.
I’ll agree that the turnover is high and many prisons are understaffed but that still doesn’t equate to what you think it means. By the way there are 120 prisons in England and Wales that perform a variety of roles. If you think ‘ Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons’ then you’re wrong.
How would you propose rehabilitating someone who doesn’t want to (or need to) engage? How much is ‘proper funding’?
You may need to do some more research, or accept that some people know a lot more about certain things than you do…
"Why are so many people in the prison industry talk about how understaffing leads to prisoners being locked up in cells and unable to undertake classes such as literacy/numeracy and one on one sessions then? Why do they talk about how the lack of staff impacts relationships between inmates and staff, lowering morale, increasing frustration and reducing opportunities for rehabilitation? And I’ve not once claimed to know more than anyone, I listen to experts when I want to know something. Don’t you? | |||
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"Some amazing work gets done in prisons that goes unrecognised and unreported. Locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. Have you any idea how understaffed the prison service is? What staff turnover is like? Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons. Remind me of your expertise in this area please I’ve done research on the topic, previously. Also have spoke with a prison officer about it. It’s very well documented how high prison staff turnover is, and how understaffed many prisons are. The information is available freely, feel free to look it up
So you don’t have any expertise then - much as I thought.
I’ll agree that the turnover is high and many prisons are understaffed but that still doesn’t equate to what you think it means. By the way there are 120 prisons in England and Wales that perform a variety of roles. If you think ‘ Locked up and left to rot is sadly accurate in most prisons’ then you’re wrong.
How would you propose rehabilitating someone who doesn’t want to (or need to) engage? How much is ‘proper funding’?
You may need to do some more research, or accept that some people know a lot more about certain things than you do…
Why are so many people in the prison industry talk about how understaffing leads to prisoners being locked up in cells and unable to undertake classes such as literacy/numeracy and one on one sessions then?
Why do they talk about how the lack of staff impacts relationships between inmates and staff, lowering morale, increasing frustration and reducing opportunities for rehabilitation?
And I’ve not once claimed to know more than anyone, I listen to experts when I want to know something. Don’t you?"In part there is some truth to what you say, and like I originally said there are too many individuals who slip through the net. But it’s really nowhere near as straightforward as you make out - how do you educate someone who requires detox or has long standing mental health issues? How do you provide 121 sessions for someone with a history of violence / manipulation? I’ll ask again - how do you rehabilitate someone who has no desire, need or inclination to engage? For any prisoner serving a significant sentence the opportunities are endless…and the support is there providing there is a desire to engage and behave. I agree that more staff would allow for more to be done… and so would longer sentences, but locked up and left to rot is a lazy, inaccurate headline. | |||
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