Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What is the point of all this? Is someone going to tell us that the government could have done better and future governments should learn from their mistakes? Are we going to learn something that we didn't already know? As far as I understand, nobody is going to be blamed or held responsible. Who is paying for all of this? All the paperwork that is gathered, the time to do so, all the staff involved from the person photocopying things to the people making judgements. It's a military operation. If the government was a private company they would have gone bankrupt a long time ago and people would be in jail. When it is the government, they can get away with murder." ...and count on people voting them in again and again. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've just listened to some of the conversation between sunak and johnston and I am disgusted." Why? If it was the conversation about keeping the economy open then that was the correct way forward, not the pathetic hiding under a rock that happened. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve?" Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded." Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think the families of the bereaved are entitled to know exactly what happened, how and who took the decisions that impacted their loved ones. I think they deserve to know and the enquiry gives their grievances some gravitas. It won’t tell people what is already believed to be the case to some extent but when it’s all laid out in black and white it’s going to be difficult for some of those who made appalling decisions to run away from responsibility. It will also be a permanent government record. " That's the kicker right there... What appalling decisions? And who decides what appalling is? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? " I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What is the point of all this? Is someone going to tell us that the government could have done better and future governments should learn from their mistakes? Are we going to learn something that we didn't already know? As far as I understand, nobody is going to be blamed or held responsible. Who is paying for all of this? All the paperwork that is gathered, the time to do so, all the staff involved from the person photocopying things to the people making judgements. It's a military operation. If the government was a private company they would have gone bankrupt a long time ago and people would be in jail. When it is the government, they can get away with murder." It just seems to be an exercise in having a go at each other to cover their own back. Also a bit of a competition on who is best at deleting what's app messages | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter." I think half of that is still open to debate. Who are the experts? Swedish experts gave different advice and fared better in terms of excess deaths and economic drop. Not acting quickly enough in locking down? See above. I'd argue they weren't decisive enough with their decisions. Lying? About covid deaths? I'm not really here to argue my position on it, but I just don't understand what anyone hopes to gain from this enquiry. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter." There are choices that need to be made and that is what we entrust in our politicians. The choices during covid were tough, lockdown and derail every individual, in physical, mental and monetary ways. Scientists wanting to control the uncontrollable to prevent the spread and a public that were frightened and not so frightened. It was tough, lessons need to be understood... Ask yourself this honestly, if we could turn back time an this was day 1 of Boris instructing us to stay at home, stay indoors, don't see loved ones etc, would you comply? My answer would now would be no, I wouldn't comply. I have seen a lot of upset and damage from lockdowns, and I'm not convinced it actually made that much of a difference in control. That is what politicians need to do, make tough choices for the good of the people, they wont always get it right. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. There are choices that need to be made and that is what we entrust in our politicians. The choices during covid were tough, lockdown and derail every individual, in physical, mental and monetary ways. Scientists wanting to control the uncontrollable to prevent the spread and a public that were frightened and not so frightened. It was tough, lessons need to be understood... Ask yourself this honestly, if we could turn back time an this was day 1 of Boris instructing us to stay at home, stay indoors, don't see loved ones etc, would you comply? My answer would now would be no, I wouldn't comply. I have seen a lot of upset and damage from lockdowns, and I'm not convinced it actually made that much of a difference in control. That is what politicians need to do, make tough choices for the good of the people, they wont always get it right." Indeed MAKE DECISIONS but by all accounts Johnson couldn’t and wouldn’t, he was prevaricating and then swayed by the last person to speak. Even when he made decisions or passed rules he ignored them himself. He was already a court jester and surrounded himself with even lesser individuals. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. I think half of that is still open to debate. Who are the experts? Swedish experts gave different advice and fared better in terms of excess deaths and economic drop. Not acting quickly enough in locking down? See above. I'd argue they weren't decisive enough with their decisions. Lying? About covid deaths? I'm not really here to argue my position on it, but I just don't understand what anyone hopes to gain from this enquiry." Half is still open to debate? Really? Johnson was advised by his own experts (you know, the ones employed at the expense of the British taxpayer to advise the Govt using their expertise) to close the borders, cancel Cheltenham, lockdown now, and Johnson ignored and waited weeks. He was advised to not release untested OAPs out of hospitals and into care homes, he and Hancock ignored that advice. That’s just some of it. The worst PM and worst Cabinet at the worst possible time. But nothing will come of it. In fact the likes of Johnson and Hancock have managed to handsomely line their pockets off the back of it. At best they displayed gross ineptitude, but I would say gross negligence and dereliction of duty in public office. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. I think half of that is still open to debate. Who are the experts? Swedish experts gave different advice and fared better in terms of excess deaths and economic drop. Not acting quickly enough in locking down? See above. I'd argue they weren't decisive enough with their decisions. Lying? About covid deaths? I'm not really here to argue my position on it, but I just don't understand what anyone hopes to gain from this enquiry. Half is still open to debate? Really? Johnson was advised by his own experts (you know, the ones employed at the expense of the British taxpayer to advise the Govt using their expertise) to close the borders, cancel Cheltenham, lockdown now, and Johnson ignored and waited weeks. He was advised to not release untested OAPs out of hospitals and into care homes, he and Hancock ignored that advice. That’s just some of it. The worst PM and worst Cabinet at the worst possible time. But nothing will come of it. In fact the likes of Johnson and Hancock have managed to handsomely line their pockets off the back of it. At best they displayed gross ineptitude, but I would say gross negligence and dereliction of duty in public office." Yeah I said half. You listed 4 things I think, I came back with 3, that's actually 75% which is more than half. Whether the 'experts' advice was the correct advice is definitely still open to debate. I asked you to clarify the lies, because we know for sure he lied about the 'died from covid' stats. Most of what you're saying is just a rant. I'm available to debate should you choose, I won't bother if you're just gonna rant though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. I think half of that is still open to debate. Who are the experts? Swedish experts gave different advice and fared better in terms of excess deaths and economic drop. Not acting quickly enough in locking down? See above. I'd argue they weren't decisive enough with their decisions. Lying? About covid deaths? I'm not really here to argue my position on it, but I just don't understand what anyone hopes to gain from this enquiry. Half is still open to debate? Really? Johnson was advised by his own experts (you know, the ones employed at the expense of the British taxpayer to advise the Govt using their expertise) to close the borders, cancel Cheltenham, lockdown now, and Johnson ignored and waited weeks. He was advised to not release untested OAPs out of hospitals and into care homes, he and Hancock ignored that advice. That’s just some of it. The worst PM and worst Cabinet at the worst possible time. But nothing will come of it. In fact the likes of Johnson and Hancock have managed to handsomely line their pockets off the back of it. At best they displayed gross ineptitude, but I would say gross negligence and dereliction of duty in public office. Yeah I said half. You listed 4 things I think, I came back with 3, that's actually 75% which is more than half. Whether the 'experts' advice was the correct advice is definitely still open to debate. I asked you to clarify the lies, because we know for sure he lied about the 'died from covid' stats. Most of what you're saying is just a rant. I'm available to debate should you choose, I won't bother if you're just gonna rant though. " Can’t be arsed to debate. It’s pointless. A bit like this enquiry. Nothing will be achieved. Some people seem to just like arguing regardless of the topic or point being made. It is all rather tedious and wearisome. So far the Covid Enquiry is pretty damning but I would love to see someone argue a different take. I believe what I have read is shameful. If you don’t then good for you. I do and that’s good for me too! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"£38 million and counting. £1 million per week down the drain. And frankly I could have written it right at the start. We didn’t lock down hard enough or fast enough. It was all the fault of Brexit and the Tories. There should be a binding international treaty so that in future there are no outliers like Sweden or Florida to mess up the group think. I’d have been happy to write the report for a few million and saved the country probably in excess of £100m." Are you still on about the inquiry? What has Brexit, Sweden or Florida got to do with the inquiry? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. There are choices that need to be made and that is what we entrust in our politicians. The choices during covid were tough, lockdown and derail every individual, in physical, mental and monetary ways. Scientists wanting to control the uncontrollable to prevent the spread and a public that were frightened and not so frightened. It was tough, lessons need to be understood... Ask yourself this honestly, if we could turn back time an this was day 1 of Boris instructing us to stay at home, stay indoors, don't see loved ones etc, would you comply? My answer would now would be no, I wouldn't comply. I have seen a lot of upset and damage from lockdowns, and I'm not convinced it actually made that much of a difference in control. That is what politicians need to do, make tough choices for the good of the people, they wont always get it right. Indeed MAKE DECISIONS but by all accounts Johnson couldn’t and wouldn’t, he was prevaricating and then swayed by the last person to speak. Even when he made decisions or passed rules he ignored them himself. He was already a court jester and surrounded himself with even lesser individuals. " The enquiry has shown Johnson to be a loose canon, switching his views and making direction of travel difficult. Which is what an enquiry need to do, expose the weaknesses, whilst acknowledging the positives. Any future PM in this situation will know to be steadfast and direct in decision making. I would go further and suggest one of the greatest takeaways, is the importance of appointing aides that are trustworthy and not allowed to operate above their station. Cummings paints a clear picture of his disregard for other senior ministers views, through rudeness and agressive rants that sets out to alienate the person he is referring to. We can see at the highest level of government, it was directionless, mismanaged and toxic. As I mentioned above we depend on our government to make the right decisions and they didn't due to the toxic inner workings, and that is why I say if we were to turn back the clock I would not have followed the advice given | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've not really kept up to date with this because, quite frankly, the topic of Covid bores the shit out of me but, what is this enquiry looking to achieve? Who knows but there SHOULD be accountability and there SHOULD be repercussions. But we know nothing will happen to anyone and incompetence will continue to be rewarded. Accountability for what though? Excess deaths? Economy? I think what is emerging is a pattern of ignoring expert advice, not acting quickly enough, lying, making insufficient plans to avoid putting citizens into harms way etc leading to what would appear to be an avoidable loss of life. If the Govt was a company there may have been grounds for Corporate Manslaughter. There are choices that need to be made and that is what we entrust in our politicians. The choices during covid were tough, lockdown and derail every individual, in physical, mental and monetary ways. Scientists wanting to control the uncontrollable to prevent the spread and a public that were frightened and not so frightened. It was tough, lessons need to be understood... Ask yourself this honestly, if we could turn back time an this was day 1 of Boris instructing us to stay at home, stay indoors, don't see loved ones etc, would you comply? My answer would now would be no, I wouldn't comply. I have seen a lot of upset and damage from lockdowns, and I'm not convinced it actually made that much of a difference in control. That is what politicians need to do, make tough choices for the good of the people, they wont always get it right. Indeed MAKE DECISIONS but by all accounts Johnson couldn’t and wouldn’t, he was prevaricating and then swayed by the last person to speak. Even when he made decisions or passed rules he ignored them himself. He was already a court jester and surrounded himself with even lesser individuals. The enquiry has shown Johnson to be a loose canon, switching his views and making direction of travel difficult. Which is what an enquiry need to do, expose the weaknesses, whilst acknowledging the positives. Any future PM in this situation will know to be steadfast and direct in decision making. I would go further and suggest one of the greatest takeaways, is the importance of appointing aides that are trustworthy and not allowed to operate above their station. Cummings paints a clear picture of his disregard for other senior ministers views, through rudeness and agressive rants that sets out to alienate the person he is referring to. We can see at the highest level of government, it was directionless, mismanaged and toxic. As I mentioned above we depend on our government to make the right decisions and they didn't due to the toxic inner workings, and that is why I say if we were to turn back the clock I would not have followed the advice given" Its all a show. The enquiry isn't really painting Johnson in any light we didn't already know. And we knew Cummings was taking swipes at him after being sacked. But Cummings was one of the main reasons borisnlost a Los to his political capital. Quite ironic the guy he defended for visiting Barnard Castle and refused to fire and that everyone called a liar is now a bastion of truth in all this. I always find it amazing how when some one side with na preferred argument they're believable but if they go against you. They're pathological liars. I've seen nothing so far in these proceedings we weren't already aware of though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"nothing new emerging just another whitewash enquiry " It doesn't seem like a whitewash to me. More like the opposite, where the participants are throwing mud at each other to see who the most sticks to, and hoping it isn't them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault! "Seven years on and everything is still about Brexit. Yawn. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault!
Seven years on and everything is still about Brexit.
Yawn."I believe you responded to a humourous post. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault!
Seven years on and everything is still about Brexit.
Yawn."Annoying isn’t it! Actually it was tongue in cheek and the was the clue 
Saying that, can you actually dispute the line of sight I drew out there? Cause and effect! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault!
Seven years on and everything is still about Brexit.
Yawn."Says the poster who hasn't responded to my questions on his Brexit post  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And it's "inquiry". States pedantic Amelie "Ah but maybe the OP was asking a question about Brexit... "What is the point of all this?"  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From the enquiry so far, it seems like Captain Pugwash and his crew were in charge of the ship. For those of you too young to know about Captain Pugwash he was a fictional character in a BBC children's programme. Below a brief description. Captain Pugwash The pompous but likeable captain of the Black Pig. Although he boasts of being the "bravest buccaneer", he is actually quite cowardly and stupid. His greed often gets him into trouble. Nevertheless, he usually wins the day – either with the help of Tom the Cabin Boy or by sheer luck. Despite being a pirate, he is rarely seen committing any acts of piracy." If I am not mistaken , The Captain Pugwash theme tune is played at Highbury , the home of League One side Fleetwood Town when they score a goal ( might he played especially loud this evening , it is the local "tram derby" , versus Blackpool ) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault!
Seven years on and everything is still about Brexit.
Yawn."Are you watching the inquiry? Helen McNamara today and Lord Bethel the other day both said that the Government were hamstrung by Brexit blindness. Yesterday Cummings all but let the cat out of the bag when he accepted that Boris was shit, but better Boris than Jeremy Corbyn and a Second Referendum. Cummings' plan was to use Johnson's ineptitude and the low-grade politicians that he imported into Cabinet to shape Britain's Brexit future. The calamity was the Covid crisis that exposed Johnson and his cabinet and hence led to the embittered frustrations of Cummings whose plans lay in tatters. He needed a few years of plain sailing and for neither Johnson or any of his appointees to have to prove themselves in a crisis. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure that people will use this to make political capital. And I'm sure most involved will be seeking to avoid shouldering responsibility. There does seem to be some common themes which gives some credence to some suggestions. But for me this isn't about the witch hunt. We should be doing an enquiry anyway to see what lessons can be learnt. Any significant project should have a post mortem. I more interested in why decisions were made, not what decisions were made. Where they fully considered at the time, or were there flaws in the process. Also it's hugely informative of if our democracy/way if being governed fit for purpose. Eg if there are the right checks and balances there. How much authority sits with a PM and if that feels right for us. What level of challenge can be made and how is that considered. We accept that any type of PM could be voted in, and with a huge majority despite not having the popular vote. I'm surprised (ish) around how much influence one person can have. This isn't Boris bashing. For pro Tory, pro Boris supporters, are you happy SKS could have the same free reign as Boris... Ignore the people. Ignore the parties. Look at the structure. " Agreed 100%. If this does not bring about change in our democracy and the way that politicians are held to account - nothing will. This is a pretty good indicator as to how things would likely have been much more stable and controlled under a system of proportional representation. No Prime Minister should be allowed to act the way that Johnson did in a time of national crisis. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault!
Seven years on and everything is still about Brexit.
Yawn.
Are you watching the inquiry?
Helen McNamara today and Lord Bethel the other day both said that the Government were hamstrung by Brexit blindness.
Yesterday Cummings all but let the cat out of the bag when he accepted that Boris was shit, but better Boris than Jeremy Corbyn and a Second Referendum.
Cummings' plan was to use Johnson's ineptitude and the low-grade politicians that he imported into Cabinet to shape Britain's Brexit future. The calamity was the Covid crisis that exposed Johnson and his cabinet and hence led to the embittered frustrations of Cummings whose plans lay in tatters. He needed a few years of plain sailing and for neither Johnson or any of his appointees to have to prove themselves in a crisis."No it is all Cameron’s fault. He made a mint with Avatar and then thinking he could walk on water (and rip off British artist Roger Dean) had the temerity to become British Prime Minister. He fucked that up completely (as described above) then ran away to make about eleventy seven more Avatar films. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault! "Indeed it is, or his parents for having him, or his grand parents, or his great grand parents .....  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Everything is Cameron’s fault! Bear with me... If Cameron had not been so afraid of ERG inside the Tories and UKIP outside, he would never have agreed to a referendum on EU membership and we would therefore never have had Johnson as PM. He would still just be the “loveable buffoon” Mayor of London on a zip wire, shagging ex-strippers and giving them taxpayers money. Possibly wouldn’t have ULEZ either in that case, so that is Cameron’s fault as well. Also the Govt would not have been so distracted by the EU referendum they might have paid closer attention to the outcome of Operation Cygnus in 2016 and realised how woefully under-prepared the UK was for a global pandemic. Then with no Brexit vote to action or oven ready deals to lie about, Johnson would not have been PM and the Tories would not have been purged of many of their most competent MPs, and the Cabinet at the time of the pandemic would not have been populated by a bunch of useless no-marks whose only qualification was to not be smarter/better/lazier than Johnson (a low bar). So it is all Cameron’s fault!
Indeed it is, or his parents for having him, or his grand parents, or his great grand parents ..... "Now you say it! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility " “Life upended”. Tuscany a few Euros more expensive this year? Try living in Israel if you think Brexit Britain is bad. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility " Actually I see something quite different…. The difference between how SPADs and Civil servants wanted to handle it… and how the actual cabinet did Quite telling that Cummings said that Johnson was probably not the right pm with the skillset to deal with this issue I think we are looking at the ineptitude leading up to the point where the world shuts down And if you look at the countries that dealt with it badly.. you can imagine for example the US probably deal with it much differently | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility Actually I see something quite different…. The difference between how SPADs and Civil servants wanted to handle it… and how the actual cabinet did Quite telling that Cummings said that Johnson was probably not the right pm with the skillset to deal with this issue I think we are looking at the ineptitude leading up to the point where the world shuts down And if you look at the countries that dealt with it badly.. you can imagine for example the US probably deal with it much differently " Well quite x however the civil service, spads and Caboff have to work in sync with a degree of professionalism, competence and ultimately some acknowledgement that they’re making decisions on behalf of the public that elected them. Without this you have a complete disregard for the public. Unfortunately what happened is that the people who pushed for Brexit, who were then elected into govt , and Cummings is responsible for Johnson, were not competent people and totally unqualified to be in the positions of power in which they found themselves. The inquiry is still holding sessions and it’s unlikely we will find out anything that people don’t already suspect, however, the scale of the callous disregard for the public and sheer scale of the dysfunction at the heart of government has been staggering to hear. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility " Sorry not sorry. I voted for Brexit but I did not vote Tories! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility Sorry not sorry. I voted for Brexit but I did not vote Tories!" It's crazy, someone was banging on about brexit in a Palestine / Isreal thread aswell.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility Sorry not sorry. I voted for Brexit but I did not vote Tories!" Your voting choices are poor | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What’s quite depressing is that all the people who voted for Brexit put people like Cummings and Johnson at the heart of govt If you voted for Brexit you got the Johnson govt - if you’ve had your life upended because of those votes, I honestly don’t know how you live with those decisions A lot of people should be quietly taking some responsibility Sorry not sorry. I voted for Brexit but I did not vote Tories! Your voting choices are poor " And why would you think your opinion matters to me? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
