FabSwingers.com forum: Verifiable Information

By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Israel - Palestine

I'd like to here what we know that has actually been verified.

I don't wanna here he said/she said.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Israel - Palestine

I'd like to here what we know that has actually been verified.

I don't wanna here he said/she said.

Fucking hell.

Both sides lie more than our dear old friend ff

I'm off to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I'll have more luck.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"Israel - Palestine

I'd like to here what we know that has actually been verified.

I don't wanna here he said/she said.

The only things I have seen are the BBC assessment and photos. It turns out I was totally wrong to say the blast scene looked to big to be a Hamas weapon. What I was going on was some of the aftermath. They show the weapon struck in a courtyard on the hospital grounds leaving quite a small crater. There are some burnt out cars but the adjacent buildings have suffered only minor damage. When you see the courtyard after the fires are out I wonder how so many were killed, unless they were packed into that area. Still many pieces of the jigsaw missing which may not be found or fabricated evidence may be at play. Such a sad situation

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

As yet not much.The pictures show damage which is not consistent with Israeli weaponry,penetrative to destroy Hamas tunnel systems(large crater,structural damage,very little burning)but more consistent with a rocket malfunction(explosion,ground level).Seems to be the conclusion of US analysts,but who knows for sure.A little suspicious that within fifteen Hamas and its allies were reporting an Israeli airstrike,yet the IDF had no idea of an air/missile/artillery operation in that area.They had to investigate,then investigate the pictures.Normally the IDF have full details (type of strike,target type,reason) on hand ready for the first media enquiries.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

In one hand we have a terrorist organisation and in another the state of Israel, both of whom are adept at media management and manipulation to suit their audiences..

I take a very sceptical view with Hamas because they don't even try to act within what are the 'accepted' rules of conflict but then again they are wouldn't would they given their status..

I want to hold Israel to a higher standard given they are a democracy etc but they have lied in the past when they've killed innocent people and then had to retract so a large pinch of salt with what they say..

War is a fucking dirty awful thing, having seen how we as a state acted over the water we and pretty much every other nation involved in conflicts since the year dot talk out of both sides of the mouth when such as we are witnessing now maybe we need a global body to ensure nations act within a rules based system..

One that's not subject to the whims and aims of the individual participants..

Oh wait..

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

Just a thought on verifiable reports. Israel & Hamas/PLO/Palestine have been at this for decades.

Surely in all this time caches of weapons have been grabbed by both sides?

During the latter stages of WW2 allied & axis forces would use each other’s hardware. Sherman’s with The Nasty emblem on the side & vice Versa

Sure it wasn’t that common with tanks but bikes, jeeps, armoured cars & most importantly small weapons would not be left laying about. The German MP4 was a far better gun than 80% of the allied ones so if you found one, you used it.

So even if you categorically know the weapon used you still do not have who fired it. The two things do not automatically go hand in hand.

This applies to any conflict from before the Romans.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Israel channel 12 cameras recorded a rocket launch and seconds later the hospital was hit.

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

Will side will say one thing and be supported by their allies, in the west no doubt. The other side will say another thing and be supported by their allies who are anti west. Who's to blame is unlikely to be established. Twas ever thus

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"Israel channel 12 cameras recorded a rocket launch and seconds later the hospital was hit. "

But to be verifiable it needs to be one take from launch to strike. Showing a launch then cutting to a strike is not good enough in the current circumstances.

Any indecent cameras get it? The place is probably full of them by now CNN,BBC,Etc Etc.

Verifiable is independent, not Hamas saying it & not Israel saying it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel channel 12 cameras recorded a rocket launch and seconds later the hospital was hit.

But to be verifiable it needs to be one take from launch to strike. Showing a launch then cutting to a strike is not good enough in the current circumstances.

Any indecent cameras get it? The place is probably full of them by now CNN,BBC,Etc Etc.

Verifiable is independent, not Hamas saying it & not Israel saying it.

S"
IDF released radar images too.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"Israel channel 12 cameras recorded a rocket launch and seconds later the hospital was hit.

But to be verifiable it needs to be one take from launch to strike. Showing a launch then cutting to a strike is not good enough in the current circumstances.

Any indecent cameras get it? The place is probably full of them by now CNN,BBC,Etc Etc.

Verifiable is independent, not Hamas saying it & not Israel saying it.

Independent, Fcking phone!

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

As I said on the other thread people will believe what they align to and will not budge on it.

All I know is Israelis and Palestinians are dying and it’s fucking sad.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Just a thought on verifiable reports. Israel & Hamas/PLO/Palestine have been at this for decades.

Surely in all this time caches of weapons have been grabbed by both sides?

During the latter stages of WW2 allied & axis forces would use each other’s hardware. Sherman’s with The Nasty emblem on the side & vice Versa

So even if you categorically know the weapon used you still do not have who fired it. The two things do not automatically go hand in hand.

This applies to any conflict from before the Romans.

You do shuffle the deck….

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Israel channel 12 cameras recorded a rocket launch and seconds later the hospital was hit.

But to be verifiable it needs to be one take from launch to strike. Showing a launch then cutting to a strike is not good enough in the current circumstances.

Any indecent cameras get it? The place is probably full of them by now CNN,BBC,Etc Etc.

Verifiable is independent, not Hamas saying it & not Israel saying it.

Agreed. That's why I'm seeking verifiable evidence, still none on this thread.

I have seen it written theat Al Jazeera were live streaming and have footage but I'm yet to see it myself.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Israel channel 12 cameras recorded a rocket launch and seconds later the hospital was hit.

But to be verifiable it needs to be one take from launch to strike. Showing a launch then cutting to a strike is not good enough in the current circumstances.

Any indecent cameras get it? The place is probably full of them by now CNN,BBC,Etc Etc.

Verifiable is independent, not Hamas saying it & not Israel saying it.

Agreed. That's why I'm seeking verifiable evidence, still none on this thread.

I have seen it written theat Al Jazeera were live streaming and have footage but I'm yet to see it myself. "

This will go around the houses and back again. Any evidence pointing to either side of the hospital bombing will be denied and thrown out by the hardened supporters.

There is little for Israel to gain in targeting hospitals, and everything to lose, as seen during the last 24 hours.

Hamas have got a lot to lose if they hit the hospital by mistake and we end up back at square one

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"Just a thought on verifiable reports. Israel & Hamas/PLO/Palestine have been at this for decades.

Surely in all this time caches of weapons have been grabbed by both sides?

During the latter stages of WW2 allied & axis forces would use each other’s hardware. Sherman’s with The Nasty emblem on the side & vice Versa

So even if you categorically know the weapon used you still do not have who fired it. The two things do not automatically go hand in hand.

This applies to any conflict from before the Romans.

You do shuffle the deck…. "

Yes, Because it’s true & does/has happened in pretty much every major conflict the world has known so blindly saying it was one side because it was a silver missile & not a gold one is a nonsense.

The allies even used captured U-boats in WW2 so it’s pretty well documented.

But if you are someone not as interested in war, conflict & espionage you may very well not know these things happen in all wars.

If so to that person it was a Palestinian missile therefore it must have been fired by them.

The “Facts & evidence” cannot in a conflict be given by either side. It must be independent.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Just a thought on verifiable reports. Israel & Hamas/PLO/Palestine have been at this for decades.

Surely in all this time caches of weapons have been grabbed by both sides?

During the latter stages of WW2 allied & axis forces would use each other’s hardware. Sherman’s with The Nasty emblem on the side & vice Versa

So even if you categorically know the weapon used you still do not have who fired it. The two things do not automatically go hand in hand.

This applies to any conflict from before the Romans.

You do shuffle the deck….

Yes, Because it’s true & does/has happened in pretty much every major conflict the world has known so blindly saying it was one side because it was a silver missile & not a gold one is a nonsense.

The allies even used captured U-boats in WW2 so it’s pretty well documented.

But if you are someone not as interested in war, conflict & espionage you may very well not know these things happen in all wars.

If so to that person it was a Palestinian missile therefore it must have been fired by them.

The “Facts & evidence” cannot in a conflict be given by either side. It must be independent.

Going back to your war crimes and your other shuffles of the deck…

I think you might have something to say, I think you may have some valid points, you lose me with over explaining and flip flopping.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

It's seems the news on the hospital has gone from

Israel bombs hospital killing 500

The ham's rockets hits own hospital killing 500

To ham's rocket explodes in car park making car park fire.

No deaths.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly no one can verify without a forensic team on the ground. You can only disseminate the information provided to you and draw your own conclusions. I have mine everyone else has theirs.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

From the images in the car park it appears like a small device had detonated with damage over a radius of 20m or so (mostly to cars). Hard to see that more than a handful of people could get killed or injured. It looks very much like the media jumped on this story without any fact checking.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"From the images in the car park it appears like a small device had detonated with damage over a radius of 20m or so (mostly to cars). Hard to see that more than a handful of people could get killed or injured. It looks very much like the media jumped on this story without any fact checking."

Indeed. With 24/7 coverage and social media eating into market share the MSM are desperate for clickbait to grow audience share.

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

In this day and age of misinformation no one can verify anything.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"In this day and age of misinformation no one can verify anything."

It's a good point, and as AI progresses, God alone knows how we'll ever prove/disprove anything.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

The front page of the New York Times is a classic example of manipulation by the media.

Headline talks about Israeli strike on hospital killing hundreds (but says that Palestinians are saying that) with a picture below showing devastation from bombing but small print saying what the picture is of. And it is not the hospital.

So unless someone actually studies the front page carefully it is easy to mistakingly link the headline with the image.

It is a really shitty manipulation that we see a lot of.

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"In this day and age of misinformation no one can verify anything.

It's a good point, and as AI progresses, God alone knows how we'll ever prove/disprove anything."

Hence one of the reasons some scientists warn against using AI, I am learning now.

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"The front page of the New York Times is a classic example of manipulation by the media.

So unless someone actually studies the front page carefully it is easy to mistakingly link the headline with the image.

It is a really shitty manipulation that we see a lot of."

And still they get away with it.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The front page of the New York Times is a classic example of manipulation by the media.

So unless someone actually studies the front page carefully it is easy to mistakingly link the headline with the image.

It is a really shitty manipulation that we see a lot of."

It's plain wrong, bit surprised they would do that in relation to a specific event..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://youtu.be/dyh77ou7P7M?si=6NfeI4Dk4UTmynEv

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Footage of Hamas fighters gunning down the _estival goes has been release.

That’s pretty verifiable.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

Not only is the weapon most probably Hamas or associated group given the photos showing the blast area but the amount of casualties seems vastly over stated. As one report correctly says, you would struggle to get that many people into the affected area. The situation is sad enough without making things up like that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

More verified footage on bbc of Hamas murders at a kibbutz, 20 children tied together and burnt, a woman pulled from the rubble naked bound by wire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"More verified footage on bbc of Hamas murders at a kibbutz, 20 children tied together and burnt, a woman pulled from the rubble naked bound by wire. "
You can't go there. Someone will retort with what about the Palestinians. Then you will get the usual suspects of I want peace and harmony and the usual well Israel did this and America did that and I am offended.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Bowen on bbc says these were cruises missiles on target for Israel, were taken out by the USA strike fleet

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Bowen on bbc says these were cruises missiles on target for Israel, were taken out by the USA strike fleet "

Or drones..

Whatever they were they were supplied by Iran who will keep pushing others to attack Israel but Israel will only take that for so long and as they did before they will react directly..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Bowen on bbc says these were cruises missiles on target for Israel, were taken out by the USA strike fleet "
That is why they are there to prevent a wider conflict. But I am sure some of the Asshats here would love to see them hit Israel. So I ask when our strikefleet picks up on ageis systems in coming from Yemen. When a strike group is sitting off the coast of Israel that the rockets that hit the hospital can't be picked up and be verified of it's origin ? Now before this turns into a shit show from the usual suspects wanting peace and tranquility. If you can't see that everyone is trying to erase Israel you are the issue. It's just my opinion. If we disarmed Israel how long do you think they would last?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let me give some enlightenment. At this point in the game there is a layered defense of Israel going on. AWACS on top of agis on top of iron dome on top of ground units. Do you honestly think that anything in the air is not being tracked ? Our fleet just took out incoming from Yemen. So I guess it's a conspiracy theory.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Bowen on bbc says these were cruises missiles on target for Israel, were taken out by the USA strike fleet That is why they are there to prevent a wider conflict. But I am sure some of the Asshats here would love to see them hit Israel. So I ask when our strikefleet picks up on ageis systems in coming from Yemen. When a strike group is sitting off the coast of Israel that the rockets that hit the hospital can't be picked up and be verified of it's origin ? Now before this turns into a shit show from the usual suspects wanting peace and tranquility. If you can't see that everyone is trying to erase Israel you are the issue. It's just my opinion. If we disarmed Israel how long do you think they would last? "

Sorry Blu you know the drill on fab by now. There were no missiles clearly Israeli propaganda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So let me ask. How did Biden come to the conclusion of it wasn't Israel according to Pentagon data? Yet some people rely on a terrorist lobbing rockets and hoping for the best. That best failed in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Sorry Blu you know the drill on fab by now. There were no missiles clearly Israeli propaganda.

"
we announced it this time and our air defense protected Israel. Yemen ... Does anyone think that a errant missile can't be tracked by the same system sitting off Israel? Even better with our help they are having a layered defense. If you think it's not true the shootdown of Yemen cruise missiles and drones prove my point. I dislike Biden but he is making a valid assessment.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"More verified footage on bbc of Hamas murders at a kibbutz, 20 children tied together and burnt, a woman pulled from the rubble naked bound by wire. You can't go there. Someone will retort with what about the Palestinians. Then you will get the usual suspects of I want peace and harmony and the usual well Israel did this and America did that and I am offended. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Sorry Blu you know the drill on fab by now. There were no missiles clearly Israeli propaganda.

"
lol true the usual pundits would just call it all lies and it's just propaganda to deflect from the hospital incident. Wait for it .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Sorry Blu you know the drill on fab by now. There were no missiles clearly Israeli propaganda.

"
Honestly some people need to see the horror and personally experience the sight smells and sounds of what certain people that they call humans are capable of I don't want sorry I want people to understand that. But I can't make them understand because hands on experience does not negate their pompous understanding what they are fed to believe. So here I sit and my husband being fucking idiots sometimes to some. It's worth my time being that idiot if I can change 1 persons mind. It's a start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ranting typical me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now the houthi rebels tried to hit Israel.

Bowen on bbc says these were cruises missiles on target for Israel, were taken out by the USA strike fleet "

Distance from Israel to Yemen is 2,209 kilometers.

The bulk of the Houthis' arsenal today appears to be made up of the Burkan-3 for longer-range strikes up to 1,200 kilometres, the shorter range Badr P-1 rockets, with a 150km range and the Soviet-era Frog-7, which Houthis call the Zelzal, with a 65km range.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So are you telling me a strike group sitting off Israel coast didn't detect a failed middle launch? When right now it's a highly contested airspace? Yet some people will blame the Israeli government. I am not stupid. So tell me what is Hamas assessment? Missile hit people killed blame Israel. If you don't believe in data processing and scientific evidence due to advanced military capability. Don't be a cunt and complain when others question the science of other areas. It's kind of being a hypocrite. COVID you need to get a injection to protect others... Ageis systems iron dome developed by science to protect are lying. It's hilarious.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly Trust the science is what everyone is told to do. A backward ass terrorist throwing a middle that fell short . Well when the system detects it that's not scientific enough. But take your jab. Idiots.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

* missile*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's late there I am positive I'll get a lame rest from someone trying to justify their position. It's all good I can be a idiot to some. No problem..let's dance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The crazy outlandish bullshit that we as Americans have to deal with. Is a fucking European caused and effect in the first place. Yet we try and and correct it. Some people blame us for the situation their governments created. Tell me I am wrong. Ukraine Palestine Israel. All European debacles. Most wars where fought over there. Yet blame the Americans when we are a grain of sand in this bullshit. Look back own your history and attrocities. We don't need to clean up your bullshit. Yet here we are. Europe again Americans again taking the brunt of past transgression of European decisions. To me your ancestors were complete idiots. Alm they cared about was some type of domination over others. Yet here we are being the same idiots. Because of that effect. Someone has to be a a certain gleaming light. I prefer to extinguish it. No one cares if we try. So we will support who we believe in us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rant over. I'm a bitch to some. Let's get this party started.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly people are calling for verified information in this thread let's all verify. I'll post anything on a paper across my tits and post the pic. Can some people who bitch about verification do the same? I think not. Yet they try to persuade . challenge anyone? Step up let's see who is real and who is not. Otherwise you are just a pathetic voice pretending on a keyboard. It's a fair assessment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some people want Israel to verify yet when it comes to themselves it's too hard to give those details. Are you hiding something just like Israel or Hamas?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's confusing sometimes I admit. Should I take a pic of my tits ass or vagina. As I far as I am concerned if you can't prove just like Hamas. You are just as guilty of deception and you are trying to justify that deception. So let's have this fun for once. Show your true colors. It would separate the pretenders against the mouthpieces. I promise it would be a great time. I'll even take multiple requests.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So in conclusion. It's the same with Israel as it's the same with your personal aspect of life. You don't want everyone to know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What funny is the people demanding verification has been silent on their own verification . Some has been on here with photos since 2017. Yet try to influence a agenda when they are doing the same thing they are against. Lying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rant over you can't call for a verification on others when your shit has been out of date for years. What is your excuse for not being truthful about yourself??? Yet you want others to believe your opinions and yet hiding in a certain sense and try and dictate others . It's sad really it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Great social experiment

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

Ok Blu, None of this you’ve posted changes my mind about two things, in actual fact you “Rant” makes me believe it even more. That belief is thus.

If we take everything Israel say as true since the 8th ie lots of fighters, massacres, IJ fired the errant missile with radar evidence & Hamas communication transcripts etc & all the security implications of the area since year dot.

Then what they said on the 7th about the biggest attack in Israel’s history being a surprise is almost certainly a lie & if you start there you come to one conclusion.

That just maybe it was BN’s idea to let an attack happen to bolster support where it may not have been to facilitate the removal of Hamas & occupy & settle at least North Gaza if not all of it.

Did Biden during his visit reiterate his comment he made at home that “Israel occupying Gaza long term would be a mistake”. Because I didn’t hear or see it if he did. So really would genuinely like to know.

As regard to some of your other “Rants” I’d just say that the ones doing the controlling are usually the ones saying nothing in the Middle East & America does nothing anywhere outside of the USA that in some way does not benefit America & I’m not talking “World peace” that’s a fantasy atm.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

Further to those saying Israeli missiles are high intensity and would cause much more damage than is evident - that's not strictly true. Israel uses low intensity missiles to 'tap' buildings before they are hit with the real thing. This is a recognised warming to evacuate. I think the jury is still out on the hospital attack.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

@Blu wow that was a lot of posts.

In one of the other Israel/Palestine threads (I think) I asked if any of the military experts on here (was primarily thinking of you) could answer two questions for me:

Q1. Can radar pick up micro lites or several micro lites?

Q2. Doesn’t Israel monitor the entire length of the border with Gaza?

I am asking as I still cannot understand how Israel didn’t respond instantly (or at least very quickly) to the unfolding attack last week. Surely the IDF is in a constant state of alert and able to mobilise a response within minutes? And if not, why not?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Sorry Blu you know the drill on fab by now. There were no missiles clearly Israeli propaganda.

Honestly some people need to see the horror and personally experience the sight smells and sounds of what certain people that they call humans."

The problem is that Israel has shown time after time that when it kills innocent people it puts out a narrative which is then shown to be a lie so it's probably not a bad idea to take what they initially say with a punch of salt..

All governments do, the UK and the USA certainly are up there in doing so..

Things go wrong but we don't want to think 'our' boys and girls are capable of killing innocent people in cold blood then dropping a weapon next to the body because that's not the done thing, that's what they do the bad people..

And mistakes happen, collateral damage etc..

Blu, I respect your service I know you've seen some pretty bad shit and done your bit to help others..

I don't need to have seen and smelt what I did in my own time to justify that my view on this will differ from your own and it doesn't make me an asshat to know that the actions by Israel in withholding water, food and electricity to over two million people is an act that transgresses the laws we expect all nations to apply to civilians in a conflict zone ..

Wipe out Hamas if that's achievable by all means for what they did but as did internment serve as a recruitment aid for the province back in the day for another bunch of terrorists the action by Israel against a lot of women and children will do the same for Hamas sadly..

The wheel turns again till such time as jaw jaw stops war war..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you go watch any of iron domes intercepts yiu will see what looks like it's not intercepting anything. No smoke trails from the incoming rockets. It's because the rockets are in terminal phase. It's out of fuel and just falling. The rockets are a much larger projectile than the intercepter. The intercepter has a shorter range it's faster than the rocket incoming being smaller. It's range is limited the rocket that hit the hospital never made it to its Apogee and terminal phase. It was launched and it fell. Dome detected it but couldn't get a firing solution because it did not reach terminal.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"If you go watch any of iron domes intercepts yiu will see what looks like it's not intercepting anything. No smoke trails from the incoming rockets. It's because the rockets are in terminal phase. It's out of fuel and just falling. The rockets are a much larger projectile than the intercepter. The intercepter has a shorter range it's faster than the rocket incoming being smaller. It's range is limited the rocket that hit the hospital never made it to its Apogee and terminal phase. It was launched and it fell. Dome detected it but couldn't get a firing solution because it did not reach terminal."

And micro lites and radar?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And micro lites and radar?"
they can pick them up but the flight characteristics are similar to birds. So in all reality a microlite drone is not that big of a threat by itself but a swarm would be. It's like what Hamas did they overwhelmed the domes capability by swarming it with rockets. Eventually some will get through.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

The only “Truth” we can be certain of is that both sides will & have lied.

Sadly history also tells us that once lies are uncovered later no one acts upon the truth.

If it’s found the attacks were less severe than BN says & that what has followed was totally inappropriate no one will do fuck all, no one ever does. Gulf2 was based on a lie, not lack of intel, an open lie. Blair & Bush are still walking free because that lie lead to a wanted objective being achieved.

Imo what is happening now is no different.

Just saw the BBC report from the Kabuts. Watch it, something is not right. Standard image of burnt out cars, place is trashed, fridges sling outside, tin roofing on the ground, total mess then we pan in to a Belt of large cal ammo on the ground.

No disrespect but to me it looks so old & rusty it’s been sitting in a steel storage container somewhere for years & been placed in situ just to make the report more believable. Can a military expert confirm the belt & ammo would 1. Be that shitty in less than 2weeks & 2. Would have been left there by either side after the battle & body recovery?

Doesn’t sit right with me. Almost like movie product placement.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"The only “Truth” we can be certain of is that both sides will & have lied.

Sadly history also tells us that once lies are uncovered later no one acts upon the truth.

Imo what is happening now is no different.

Doesn’t sit right with me. Almost like movie product placement.

Your assumption is the ammunition was in good condition prior to it being on the ground.

Why are you suggesting the attacks by Hamas terrorists on Israel October 7th were anything less than what has been reported? You are also consistently saying Israel knew the attacks were going to happen, and let them.

You have no evidence to back up anything you are suggesting, so what are your posts? Thinking aloud or creating a conspiracy?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The only “Truth” we can be certain of is that both sides will & have lied.

Sadly history also tells us that once lies are uncovered later no one acts upon the truth.

Imo what is happening now is no different.

Doesn’t sit right with me. Almost like movie product placement.

You lost me at 'no disrespect' because it's utterly disrespectful to the loved ones of the innocents butchered by Hamas on 7th October..

You don't need to be an expert of any discipline to know that in a country where military service is obligatory and where the kibbutz's have their own armed security that some ordnance might be laying about especially after the place was looted post the massacre's..

There could be umpteen reasons other than what your suggesting tbh..

I share your thoughts on how badly the IDF and the intelligence service got it wrong, and again on how utterly slow the response was but that Netanyahu knew and allowed it is not something I share..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest it's extremely frustrating. People see things through different lenses. I try and use my real-world experience to guide my thoughts and try to convey them. It's just who I am.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"The only “Truth” we can be certain of is that both sides will & have lied.

Sadly history also tells us that once lies are uncovered later no one acts upon the truth.

Imo what is happening now is no different.

Doesn’t sit right with me. Almost like movie product placement.

Ammunition doesn't have to be bright and shiny,just clean and dirt free.Brass oxidises(tarnishes) very quickly.How tarnished was it when it was brought to the battlefield? Ammo dropped and left behind in an area that has seen combat is normal.It is not a valuable resource to salvage.When it comes to a clean up,Unexploded Ordnance specialists do that task,obviously their specialist knowledge of the ammunition,but also since the dawn of modern warfare "discarded/dropped" ammunition has been rigged as a booby trap,either itself or an IED in the ground.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"To be honest it's extremely frustrating. People see things through different lenses. I try and use my real-world experience to guide my thoughts and try to convey them. It's just who I am. "

Social media has created a village out of the world.

Videos of young women in medical masks tearing down the posters of missing Israeli loved ones, appear near identical all over Western towns and cities.

Copy cat actions and no moral compass is the scourge of the younger generations and those social nomads seeking a group to belong to. They have little world experience and consume masses of propaganda hourly, making them instantly qualified to have their opinions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To be honest it's extremely frustrating. People see things through different lenses. I try and use my real-world experience to guide my thoughts and try to convey them. It's just who I am.

Social media has created a village out of the world.

Videos of young women in medical masks tearing down the posters of missing Israeli loved ones, appear near identical all over Western towns and cities.

"
I can be just as guilty of the propaganda. But on certain things I can ask people that have that experience on certain subjects. We all can be obnoxious sometimes I am just more extreme than alot of people. I am overly pragmatic on certain issues to my detrement.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The only “Truth” we can be certain of is that both sides will & have lied.

Sadly history also tells us that once lies are uncovered later no one acts upon the truth.

Imo what is happening now is no different.

Doesn’t sit right with me. Almost like movie product placement.

This plus a plant to indicate the enemy have weapons of a higher calibre than was thought..

Saw it up front in south Armagh at a firing point after a heli got perforated and some spent 50 cal casings were dropped..

So many reasons why etc..

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

So last night the Israeli’s targeted the oldest Christian church in gaza….

So nothing is safe… or sacred… or off limits

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

The Palestinians need to release their hostages so that they can receive aid.

I do not know why they did take hostages in the first place.

Israel has not done any such thing, the children they have killed, and placed in prison without trial are not hostages in anyway, they most likely deserve to be there anyway right? those going hungry and thirsty deserve it they support terror so let them starve I say.

do not know what these children have done, but Israel never lie they always tell the truth sooner or later.

So in short, taking other peoples homes and land, placing them in compounds, controlling their basic human rights and freedom, are in no way a crime.

But to seek justice for this kind of treatment is wrong, so the occupiers sorry the Israelis are right in killing and carpet bombing these rats into the ground, they call it defence.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

And micro lites and radar? they can pick them up but the flight characteristics are similar to birds. So in all reality a microlite drone is not that big of a threat by itself but a swarm would be. It's like what Hamas did they overwhelmed the domes capability by swarming it with rockets. Eventually some will get through."

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"The Palestinians need to release their hostages so that they can receive aid.

I do not know why they did take hostages in the first place.

do not know what these children have done, but Israel never lie they always tell the truth sooner or later.

So in short, taking other peoples homes and land, placing them in compounds, controlling their basic human rights and freedom, are in no way a crime.

But to seek justice for this kind of treatment is wrong, so the occupiers sorry the Israelis are right in killing and carpet bombing these rats into the ground, they call it defence.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"So last night the Israeli’s targeted the oldest Christian church in gaza….

So nothing is safe… or sacred… or off limits "

In fairness, that's better than bombing kids.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"So last night the Israeli’s targeted the oldest Christian church in gaza….

So nothing is safe… or sacred… or off limits "

It's a building right next door,that has partially collapsed onto the side of the church.More than likely Hamas were using the building,that's what they do,use schools/hospitals as arms caches,missile factories etc.Its a win win for them.If the building isn't hit because of what it is it's a win,if the IDF hit it,it's a win,it proves Israel are "evil".When the UAE paid for new houses to be built in Gaza,Hamas launched rockets from the rooftops of the houses,knowing full well the Israeli response..The IDF bombed them.That proves Israel are "evil".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Great thanks for responding. So I saw footage of people at the music _estival just before the attack. They spot what appears to be around a dozen micro lites heading towards them. Looking on the map it appears the _estival was some way from the border with Gaza and micro lites aren’t fast. So where was the IDF response? At least to investigate?"
it was a intelligence failure on the IDF fault. I don't know what radar coverage was in the area at the time or even if they were turned on. But you are right the IDF needs to investigate what happened and not let it happen again. A lesson learned the hard way.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Great thanks for responding. So I saw footage of people at the music _estival just before the attack. They spot what appears to be around a dozen micro lites heading towards them. Looking on the map it appears the _estival was some way from the border with Gaza and micro lites aren’t fast. So where was the IDF response? At least to investigate? it was a intelligence failure on the IDF fault. I don't know what radar coverage was in the area at the time or even if they were turned on. But you are right the IDF needs to investigate what happened and not let it happen again. A lesson learned the hard way."

When the dust (hopefully) settles on all of this, while ultimate anger must clearly be directed at Hamas, it seems the Israeli intelligence/military have big questions to answer for the relatives whose family members were butchered. While possibly not fully preventable, the scale should surely have been able to be reduced with a rapid response?

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 20/10/23 14:16:43]

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

It seems that all he evidence are pointing to that it was hamas who bombed the hospital.

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"It seems that all he evidence are pointing to that it was hamas who bombed the hospital."
Who else have noticed that on the news and other channels it says war between israel and hamas, whilst it is hamas against israel?

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"It seems that all he evidence are pointing to that it was hamas who bombed the hospital.Who else have noticed that on the news and other channels it says war between israel and hamas, whilst it is hamas against israel?"

Unsurprisingly Al Jazeera are covering the whole story under the title "war on Gaza"

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

Unsurprisingly Al Jazeera are covering the whole story under the title "war on Gaza""
yep and western media are calling it self defence for isrealis, i could biy the self defence thing for the first few days but now they are just flattening gaza, we know how this ends, gazans pushed into an even smaller area and Israel grows in size

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Unsurprisingly Al Jazeera are covering the whole story under the title "war on Gaza"yep and western media are calling it self defence for isrealis, i could biy the self defence thing for the first few days but now they are just flattening gaza, we know how this ends, gazans pushed into an even smaller area and Israel grows in size "

And they still won't defeat Hamas..

The whole sad and sorry cycle will keep on going until one day the penny drops that they all need to compromise and find a workable solution to exist ..

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Except the BBC,who still won't call Hamas terrorists.

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

Unsurprisingly Al Jazeera are covering the whole story under the title "war on Gaza""
Yes, it seems like some media have their version of it, almost like there is a hidden aganda behind it, of who they are trying to blame isnt it.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

Except the BBC,who still won't call Hamas terrorists."
so what if they dont call them terrorists,they also dont call isreal occupiers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Great thanks for responding. So I saw footage of people at the music _estival just before the attack. They spot what appears to be around a dozen micro lites heading towards them. Looking on the map it appears the _estival was some way from the border with Gaza and micro lites aren’t fast. So where was the IDF response? At least to investigate? it was a intelligence failure on the IDF fault. I don't know what radar coverage was in the area at the time or even if they were turned on. But you are right the IDF needs to investigate what happened and not let it happen again. A lesson learned the hard way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Israel probably won't start the ground offensive until the second strike group arrives and the USS mount Whitney.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

If you’ve been watching the BBC News since the start you’ll note they have stopped calling victims on either side British Citizens & started calling them British Passport holders.

A small but telling difference after maybe a bit of public commentary I don’t know.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess"

Murdering some children bad.

Murdering other children good?

Strange stance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/10/23 17:30:40]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

Murdering some children bad.

Murdering other children good?

Strange stance."

Says the expert on compassion towards children. At least I wouldn't allow my own children to die whilst "safeguarding" some others. You have worryingly strange priorities.

Bess

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

Murdering some children bad.

Murdering other children good?

Strange stance.

Says the expert on compassion towards children. At least I wouldn't allow my own children to die whilst "safeguarding" some others. You have worryingly strange priorities.

Bess

I have no idea what this dig is supposed to mean.

I can confirm I'm in opposition to kids being murdered. Full stop.

The nationality or religion of the child is not a factor for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Excellent news - Jehad Mheisen, a key leader within Hamas, was killed in an airstrike on his home in Gaza.

WELL DONE ISRAEL! Another piece of shit wiped off the shoes of the world.

Bess

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Some positive news, Sky reporting two American hostages being released..

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

We could also just about to see something that may escalate everything…

The Red Cross are saying they have been told to evacuate Al cuds hospital in Gaza immediately by the IDF… Red Cross are saying it’s impossible because it’s the last major hospital so it’s full and they reckon there are somewhere between 5 and 10k sheltering in the immediate area…

Basically they have had the tap notice for an air strike

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess"

Isn't that what they said about the jews, the tooties and other victims of mass eradication of a race of people making them a thing and not seen as humans.

Easier to kill them and easier to make others accept those kind of actions.

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"We could also just about to see something that may escalate everything…

Basically they have had the tap notice for an air strike

there are people who find this acceptable. not me but others.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Excellent news - Jehad Mheisen, a key leader within Hamas, was killed in an airstrike on his home in Gaza.

WELL DONE ISRAEL! Another piece of shit wiped off the shoes of the world.

Bess "

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

Murdering some children bad.

Murdering other children good?

Strange stance.

Says the expert on compassion towards children. At least I wouldn't allow my own children to die whilst "safeguarding" some others. You have worryingly strange priorities.

Bess

Bess I can understand why you are angry. I can understand (and agree) why you hate Hamas. I can understand why you hate Palestinians who support Hamas. But do you really hate ALL Palestinians? Even children and babies? Why is an Israeli child’s life worth more than a Palestinian child’s life?

I think Hamas should be eradicated. They are abject cowards hiding amongst civilians and using them as a shield. Ordering the ordinary people, families, to not leave an area after being warned by the IDF. But the idea that all these ordinary people really have a choice is mad. These evil Hamas bastards are undoubtedly intimidating many of these people at gunpoint. Not all but certainly some because they are TERRORists. It is how they work!

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Judith and Natalie Ranaan released

200 odd left to get out, then IDF burn the rest of Gaza to dust

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The crazy outlandish bullshit that we as Americans have to deal with. Is a fucking European caused and effect in the first place. Yet we try and and correct it. Some people blame us for the situation their governments created. Tell me I am wrong. Ukraine Palestine Israel. All European debacles. Most wars where fought over there. Yet blame the Americans when we are a grain of sand in this bullshit. Look back own your history and attrocities. We don't need to clean up your bullshit. Yet here we are. Europe again Americans again taking the brunt of past transgression of European decisions. To me your ancestors were complete idiots. Alm they cared about was some type of domination over others. Yet here we are being the same idiots. Because of that effect. Someone has to be a a certain gleaming light. I prefer to extinguish it. No one cares if we try. So we will support who we believe in us."

I agree with the centiment of most of your post however it's safe to say America has caused way more then its fair share of "bullshit" in the world.

Also you Americans are not here for the "greater good" to sort out this bull shit. You are as always here because it's in your own self interest.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Who were your ancestors?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So last night the Israeli’s targeted the oldest Christian church in gaza….

So nothing is safe… or sacred… or off limits "

Not when hammas station them selves there, I guess not....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And they still won't defeat Hamas..

The whole sad and sorry cycle will keep on going until one day the penny drops that they all need to compromise and find a workable solution to exist .."

Not going to happen.. hammas will never accept a two state solution

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who were your ancestors?"

Great point..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And they still won't defeat Hamas..

The whole sad and sorry cycle will keep on going until one day the penny drops that they all need to compromise and find a workable solution to exist ..

Not going to happen.. hammas will never accept a two state solution "

I think a two state solution died a long time ago.

Probably when the idea of one Palestine split into the west bank and gaza. Probably when Israel decided Yassir Arafat was too much to deal with.

Probably when you have a government of Hamas in Gaza and of Fatah in the West Bank

Probably when Israel builds roads into the west bank settlements that connect with the rest of Israel.

Probably when Israel enters the gaza strip and never returns it, forcing those people to move into egypt or die.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And they still won't defeat Hamas..

The whole sad and sorry cycle will keep on going until one day the penny drops that they all need to compromise and find a workable solution to exist ..

Not going to happen.. hammas will never accept a two state solution

I think a two state solution died a long time ago.

Probably when the idea of one Palestine split into the west bank and gaza. Probably when Israel decided Yassir Arafat was too much to deal with.

Probably when you have a government of Hamas in Gaza and of Fatah in the West Bank

Probably when Israel builds roads into the west bank settlements that connect with the rest of Israel.

Probably when Israel enters the gaza strip and never returns it, forcing those people to move into egypt or die."

From the river to the sea? Anything less would not be acceptable. There will never be peace.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Church is still standing then.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

And they still won't defeat Hamas..

The whole sad and sorry cycle will keep on going until one day the penny drops that they all need to compromise and find a workable solution to exist ..

Not going to happen.. hammas will never accept a two state solution

I think a two state solution died a long time ago.

Probably when the idea of one Palestine split into the west bank and gaza. Probably when Israel decided Yassir Arafat was too much to deal with.

Probably when you have a government of Hamas in Gaza and of Fatah in the West Bank

Probably when Israel builds roads into the west bank settlements that connect with the rest of Israel.

Probably when Israel enters the gaza strip and never returns it, forcing those people to move into egypt or die.

From the river to the sea? Anything less would not be acceptable. There will never be peace."

Never with terrorists like Hamas in charge.Like all groups of this type through history (Taliban,Boko Haram,Al Shibab etc)what do they provide for "their people?"How many schools/hospitals/roads or other infrastructure have Hamas built?How many trade deals have they signed?what is their economic policy for their population?Over half their population rely on foreign aid,that is a "failed state".That is a failure of Hamas.That is worse than Zimbabwe under the lunatic Mugabe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Completely agree

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Completely agree"

Then you get the usual gobshites like Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake supporting these terrorists.What a delicious irony that they would be the first to be executed by Hamas if they tried to "express themselves"through comedy and drama in Gaza.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Completely agree

*******************************

I don't know enough about Ms. Peake to comment but I find Steve Coogan's views and incidentally, his 'creativity', to be cringeworthy.

An all-round 'I never liked this person in any way' from me.

He's the only one on that personal list of mine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A blockade has been imposed by Israel and Egypt on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip. These measures were implemented after Hamas, a militant and political Islamist group, took control of the territory in 2007. The blockade aims to isolate Hamas and prevent the smuggling of weapons into Gaza. It has also led to significant humanitarian challenges, as it restricts the flow of essential goods, contributes to economic hardship, and limits the freedom of movement for Gaza's residents.[1]

Gaza Strip, with Israeli/Egyptian-controlled borders and limited fishing zone

Israel blockaded the Gaza Strip temporarily in 2005–2006. In 2007, after Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, both Israel and Egypt have imposed an indefinite blockade of Gaza that is ongoing to present day, on the grounds that Fatah and Palestinian Authority forces had fled the Strip and were no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Gaza Strip, with Israeli/Egyptian-controlled borders and limited fishing zone

Which doesn't stop the smuggling of anything,or the foreign aid that over half the population rely on.If Hamas wanted to build infrastructure for example,those materials would be allowed through.The UAE built houses in Gaza which Hamas immediately used to launch rockets from the rooftops,knowing they would be hit by Israel.Hamas don't want to do anything for their people except hold them hostage and blame Israel for their situation.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Completely agree

Peake has a history of anti Semitic comment,some of it absolutely ridiculous not only factually incorrect,example,Mossad have been training American police to kneel on the necks of suspects they arrest.

*******************************

I don't know enough about Ms. Peake to comment but I find Steve Coogan's views and incidentally, his 'creativity', to be cringeworthy.

An all-round 'I never liked this person in any way' from me.

He's the only one on that personal list of mine."

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Completely agree

*******************************

I don't know enough about Ms. Peake to comment but I find Steve Coogan's views and incidentally, his 'creativity', to be cringeworthy.

An all-round 'I never liked this person in any way' from me.

He's the only one on that personal list of mine."

Peake has a history of anti Semitic/ridiculous comment,such as Mossad have been training US Police to kneel on the necks of suspects they arrest.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

Well since you asked, you are wrong. The underlying issues go back 3,000 years. Empires have come and gone in the region, but the hatred and intolerance remains. Europeans have tried to give solutions (the 2 states) but got thwarted by both sides. Anyway, aren't you American just Europeans occupying somebody elses land? So maybe dismount the high horse eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"Church is still standing then.

"
This

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Ukraine is just a proxy war for the usa and Russia. I dont get how the rest of Europe was responsible here. NATO has been pushing expansion and wanted Ukraine Russia used this to act.( rightly or wrongly) we know form the Clinton emails usa often does shady dealings

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

For once Morley, am in total agreement with everything you said. A superb analysis.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

Yeah Blu this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

Yeah Blu this

"
Yup and now you know why we should take up a isolationist policy. You know the dreaded MAGA republicans.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

Yeah the shittier bits of the land they had anyway before you came along.

Bit like Israel really. Something I’ve yet to figure is when the State was created in 47/48 how did the 30% Jewish population of Palestine get 70% of the land of Palestine? They didn’t have the manpower obviously so it must have been the weapons. Where did they come from? Santa, some imaginary cloud fairy or possibly America? Might have been Europe but unlikely as we were broke in more ways than one & Britain didn’t want Palestine split in the first place.

You do know that the creation of the state of Israel was opposed by the then UK Government as was the 100,000 misplaced Jews being allowed to settle there as they said doing that would likely result in permanent unrest in the area, but that a certain Harry S Truman backed the splitting of Palestine & the UN agreed on the creation after Britains parentage ended in 47/48 & pretty much said “Fck you then, don’t listen to us”.

So yeah, I guess a totally European issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah the shittier bits of the land they had anyway before you came along.

So yeah, I guess a totally European issue.

S"
and right now Israel is saying enough is enough. It's time to end it once and for all. Just like the European settlers here. No difference. Win or lose.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

Yeah Blu this

Yup and now you know why we should take up an isolationist policy. You know the dreaded MAGA republicans."

Well Trump has got to get back in first.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

Yeah the shittier bits of the land they had anyway before you came along.

So yeah, I guess a totally European issue.

S and right now Israel is saying enough is enough. It's time to end it once and for all. Just like the European settlers here. No difference. Win or lose."

There is no end to this just because Israel take Hamas or Gaza. Only a fool would think that. All that happens is the arena gets bigger & the weapons change.

As I’ve said elsewhere America has a 31Trillion dollar national debt that costs 1.5b a day to service. She manages this partly because everyone trades in US dollars. Time will come when that stops, outside of getting nukes (if some don’t already have them) that’s the most powerful weapon there is if the Arabs want Israel gone & they don’t want American interference.

Be a bit like using a cruise missile to pick a door lock for everyone else, but hey it gets the job done right.

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

To OP's question, we are seeing a glimpse of what a post truth society would look like. With technology, it's easy to manipulate videos and photos to change people's views. Both the sides on the debate are doing full on propaganda. One of the reasons why I stopped following this on social media.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"To OP's question, we are seeing a glimpse of what a post truth society would look like. With technology, it's easy to manipulate videos and photos to change people's views. Both the sides on the debate are doing full on propaganda. One of the reasons why I stopped following this on social media."

There is a philosophical question here, and it is "Is truth binary?". In other words is there just one truth, or versions of truth or what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is a philosophical question here, and it is "Is truth binary?". In other words is there just one truth, or versions of truth or what?"
2 truths. Israel was attacked and now they are going on the offensive. That is it it's simplified. Everyone can watch whatever news you want to. That's the facts. War is brutal but those are the only truths that are relevant.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Yeah the shittier bits of the land they had anyway before you came along.

So yeah, I guess a totally European issue.

France early on. Once they consolidated their points in modern Israel.

They got in arms from Eastern Europe. Czechoslovakia and East Germany. Mainly.

Then from the 60s America supplied far superior missiles and planes die to the soviet supplies in the area.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is a philosophical question here, and it is "Is truth binary?". In other words is there just one truth, or versions of truth or what? 2 truths. Israel was attacked and now they are going on the offensive. That is it it's simplified. Everyone can watch whatever news you want to. That's the facts. War is brutal but those are the only truths that are relevant."

War and ethnic cleansing are both brutal. I know you like both. So happy days for you..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War and ethnic cleansing are both brutal. I know you like both. So happy days for you..

"
so what is your solution? Both sides are doing "Ethnic cleansing".

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS
over a year ago

London

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

Bible 1 Samuel 15 verse 3 :

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly adestroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Bible Psalm 137 verse 9 :

Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock:

(the children represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated.)

Good job IDF.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War and ethnic cleansing are both brutal. I know you like both. So happy days for you..

so what is your solution? Both sides are doing "Ethnic cleansing"."

The numbers would suggest only one side is being ethically cleansed by loss of life life and loss of land.

Above my pay grade, a lot cleverer minds than me are trying to find a solution. But at the end of the day it law of the jungle and might is right. You only have rights if you have the might to back it up. Otherwise moral rights mean nothing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

Bible 1 Samuel 15 verse 3 :

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly adestroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Bible Psalm 137 verse 9 :

Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock:

(the children represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated.)

Good job IDF.

I thought Jews don't believe in the bible or Jesus..?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

War and ethnic cleansing are both brutal. I know you like both. So happy days for you..

so what is your solution? Both sides are doing "Ethnic cleansing"."

Where?

Certainly in the west bank the settlers are being allowed to take villages and kill unarmed Palestinians whilst in some cases the IDF stands and does fuck all..

How is that both sides doing ethnic cleansing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel - Palestine

I'd like to here what we know that has actually been verified.

I don't wanna here he said/she said.

https://youtu.be/MVQALHmgo8U?si=5zx_D6B5kXICMpZb

Sums it up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel - Palestine

I'd like to here what we know that has actually been verified.

I don't wanna here he said/she said.

https://youtu.be/MVQALHmgo8U?si=5zx_D6B5kXICMpZb

Sums it up"
not really

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

There is a philosophical question here, and it is "Is truth binary?". In other words is there just one truth, or versions of truth or what?"

I didn't want to get philosophical in this thread. I believe there is one truth that can obviously be split into partial truths, which become versions of truth. But if random people on the internet is the only source of the truth, I might as well give up

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Truth through superior firepower.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"Maybe the BBC should call them exactly what they are - Palestinian citizens who took up arms and joined an illegal islamic terrorist organisation who brutally murder children, women and families.

The IDF are doing a good job in eradicating a cancer.

Bess

Bible 1 Samuel 15 verse 3 :

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly adestroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Bible Psalm 137 verse 9 :

Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock:

(the children represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated.)

Good job IDF.

I thought Jews don't believe in the bible or Jesus..?"

I think it is the new testament they don't believe in. The verse is in relation to revenge on the Babylonian army butchering them. Sounds a familiar scenario

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Truth through superior firepower."
Team A. Fucked around. Team B. Is giving them find out. It's the same as if you poke a hornets nest with a stick.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the information comes from anyone who works for the BBC you can assume it’s lies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas? "

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?"
sure it saves lives

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?"

Total false equivalence. Which I'm sure you well know but you say it anyway...

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas? "

Roof knocking hospitals doesn’t limit civilian casualties…..

A) they know for civilians they are about the only safe place for cover

B) where on earth are you suppose to move people to…..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Roof knocking hospitals doesn’t limit civilian casualties…..

A) they know for civilians they are about the only safe place for cover

B) where on earth are you suppose to move people to….. "

The hospital was friendly fire from Hammas..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?

Total false equivalence. Which I'm sure you well know but you say it anyway..."

Explain to me how

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Roof knocking hospitals doesn’t limit civilian casualties…..

A) they know for civilians they are about the only safe place for cover

B) where on earth are you suppose to move people to….. "
same warning if a F5 Tornado is coming and you get a alert you move. You can't say people don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

F5 Tornado comes to my area. Doppler indicates my house is directly in it's path. Logic dictates I move. Some of you would just sit there and try to reason with the tornado. Tornado hits it's the tornado fault not your own. The roof knock is the warning the tornado is the incoming ordinance. You are warned.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Roof knocking hospitals doesn’t limit civilian casualties…..

A) they know for civilians they are about the only safe place for cover

B) where on earth are you suppose to move people to….. same warning if a F5 Tornado is coming and you get an alert you move. You can't say people don't."

If someone is in a hospital bed… where are you going to move them to

The whole reason why the Red Cross say moving some people is more risky to life than keeping them where they are

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Roof knocking hospitals doesn’t limit civilian casualties…..

A) they know for civilians they are about the only safe place for cover

B) where on earth are you suppose to move people to….. same warning if a F5 Tornado is coming and you get an alert you move. You can't say people don't.

If someone is in a hospital bed… where are you going to move them to

The whole reason why the Red Cross say moving some people is more risky to life than keeping them where they are

"
Kinda of like the Joplin tornado and multiple other instances. Shall I mention Katrina? People get warned all the time. People do not need that warning and then what happens?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Roof knocking hospitals doesn’t limit civilian casualties…..

A) they know for civilians they are about the only safe place for cover

B) where on earth are you suppose to move people to….. same warning if a F5 Tornado is coming and you get an alert you move. You can't say people don't.

If someone is in a hospital bed… where are you going to move them to

The whole reason why the Red Cross say moving some people is more risky to life than keeping them where they are

Kinda of like the Joplin tornado and multiple other instances. Shall I mention Katrina? People get warned all the time. People do not need that warning and then what happens?"

You can mention Katrina. How did that pan out at Memorial Hospital?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

45 dead.. could they have moved beforehand? Yes. Hence why they were sued.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?

Total false equivalence. Which I'm sure you well know but you say it anyway...

Explain to me how"
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

That's how.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?"

No mention of Hamas de humanising or treating people in a manner you wouldn't an animal.

Would you rather the IDF gave no warnings to civilians that they were going to strike a building/house that Hamas had taken over to launch rockets from,or use as a rocket factory/arms cache?Probably you would because that "proves" the Hamas narrative that Israel are evil.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Interesting that the Israeli air force have now launched an air strike on the West Bank

So is the war against Hamas or the war against Palestinians in general?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting that the Israeli air force have now launched an air strike on the West Bank

So is the war against Hamas or the war against Palestinians in general? "
nope it's a targeted response to Hamas. They are getting down and dirty to root them out. Anything else you want to know about the brutality of war? The end game is to end Hamas. If Israel wanted to would you prefer a WW2 carpet bombing level everything or would you prefer a justifiable targeted response? Take your pick. I prefer targeted to avoid less civilian deaths. Hamas didn't by the way in case you didn't notice they prefer civilian targets. Israel is using precision. Hamas is launching unguided rockets which are not. You seem to think that Israel just want to kill all Palestinians. If they wanted to they can. So why the restraint? I can tell you they are just are targeting Hamas otherwise the war campaign would be vastly different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting that the Israeli air force have now launched an air strike on the West Bank

So is the war against Hamas or the war against Palestinians in general? nope it's a targeted response to Hamas. They are getting down and dirty to root them out. Anything else you want to know about the brutality of war? The end game is to end Hamas. If Israel wanted to would you prefer a WW2 carpet bombing level everything or would you prefer a justifiable targeted response? Take your pick. I prefer targeted to avoid less civilian deaths. Hamas didn't by the way in case you didn't notice they prefer civilian targets. Israel is using precision. Hamas is launching unguided rockets which are not. You seem to think that Israel just want to kill all Palestinians. If they wanted to they can. So why the restraint? I can tell you they are just are targeting Hamas otherwise the war campaign would be vastly different. "

Do you actually enjoy parroting the same stuff every other post. Or is it an American thing..?

Am sure other people are aware about the brutality of war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting that the Israeli air force have now launched an air strike on the West Bank

Do you actually enjoy parroting the same stuff every other post. Or is it an American thing..?

Am sure other people are aware about the brutality of war."
why people ask why Israel is doing what they are doing. It's simple war facts just because you think I am parroting. The same people people post the same question as why Israel is targeting this area or that. Here is a hint . They are shaping the battlefield. Elimination of command and control to their advantage. If they detected some command bunker in the west bank guess what Proof it's gone. So I'll parrot all I want others are doing the same. Any other questions you want answered? If it's that daunting you don't have to respond. Fabio posted I responded to his query.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Must be a American thing we are so stupid on understanding warfare. I'll take your attempt at a insult with pride thanks.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"Interesting that the Israeli air force have now launched an air strike on the West Bank

Do you actually enjoy parroting the same stuff every other post. Or is it an American thing..?

Am sure other people are aware about the brutality of war. why people ask why Israel is doing what they are doing. It's simple war facts just because you think I am parroting. The same people people post the same question as why Israel is targeting this area or that. Here is a hint . They are shaping the battlefield. Elimination of command and control to their advantage. If they detected some command bunker in the west bank guess what Proof it's gone. So I'll parrot all I want others are doing the same. Any other questions you want answered? If it's that daunting you don't have to respond. Fabio posted I responded to his query. "

You might understand war but you patently do not understand people.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

"Israel is roof knocking as to limit civilian casualties. Is Hamas?

Thank you so much for letting me know that I am about to be attacked. Now you have feel free to de-humanise and subjucate me to actions that you wouldn’t to an animal.

How kind you are!

If Putin told Ukrainians he was going to invade before he did would you be ok with it?

Total false equivalence. Which I'm sure you well know but you say it anyway...

Explain to me howhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

That's how."
ah cnn are to be belived now that they are reporting stuff you agree with lol

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough

Since you're not a native American, for all we know, those ancestors are yours

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough

I disagree here somewhat.

I tend not to get too involved in Palestine and Israel.

Both side have SEVERE faults they can't acknowledge but the USA played a big part.

Bombing Afghanistan and blaming Iran.

Supplying weapons to Syria for the uprising.

Supplying weapons to the insurgents vs gaddafi.

We now KNOW the USA had troops in Ukraine all along as well as thenuk throughout this conflict in Ukraine.

The mess or israel and Palestine is a direct result of usa and uk inyerference. In recognising Israel as a state 70 years ago.

You seem to be blaming europe.solely which is unfair.

The French no doubt had a huge impact. But then again. Canada set the precedent for sharing nuclear knowledge.

I as a uk resident don't blame America for Canada involvement here.

Israel and the usa have had quite a strong partnership for 75 years.

Because the usa has been ecstatic to have an influence in that region. And again the proxy war. They sold military equipment to Israel in the 60s far superior to its neighbours.

I really don't think many western nations can hold their hands up and say they had no part in this debacle.

For once Morley, am in total agreement with everything you said. A superb analysis. "

Apart from the recognising of the state of Israel... Morley are you saying it shouldn't have been recognised?

And wasn't it a biblical prophecy?

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By *unchalMan
over a year ago

Dartford

"Israel - Palestine

I'd like to here what we know that has actually been verified.

I don't wanna here he said/she said.

Do you mean apart from the fact that we took their country away and gave it to the Israelis who now do whatever they want because we need them in that part of the world. History. That kind of verification?

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