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"Said Gove a few minutes ago at the party conference amongst other things to the party faithful. Obviously true (Gove would have been very careful here) and a fantastic Brexit benefit along with all the other benefits he listed in his speech. The writing on the bus was true after all!" ‘Obviously true’? Wasn’t the bulk of the cash put into the NHS from general taxation? We lose out by leaving the EU. The ‘gains’ we made are outweighed by the losses. | |||
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"I would be surprised if Gove's prepared speech contained any factual errors as it would be too easy for it to be shot down. I am also sure that he would have skipped around the facts but told no actual lies. He made an excellent speech and is an excellent speaker however, for someone with his obvious talent, could he debate honestly with someone of a similar ilk who knew the facts and questioned what he said. Gove normally refuses to answer any direct questions and very successfully moves the conversation to what he wants to say. You have to hand it to the man - a modern politician who tells people what they want to hear whilst skirting around the truth " He’s on record lying repeatedly. He does it better than many, but he lies outright. | |||
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"I would be surprised if Gove's prepared speech contained any factual errors as it would be too easy for it to be shot down. I am also sure that he would have skipped around the facts but told no actual lies. He made an excellent speech and is an excellent speaker however, for someone with his obvious talent, could he debate honestly with someone of a similar ilk who knew the facts and questioned what he said. Gove normally refuses to answer any direct questions and very successfully moves the conversation to what he wants to say. You have to hand it to the man - a modern politician who tells people what they want to hear whilst skirting around the truth " Gove does nothing we don't see here on a daily basis. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding" I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove " What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread." I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. " 250m is the figure after rebate. 350m is the figure before. Both are correct. To say it was a blatant lie is a lie in itself  | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. " No.you didn't comprehend what you were reading. The fullfact bit you quote above was that the UK sent x amount to the e.u and that we got y amount back. That categorically did NOT say the nhs would not and DIDNT receive the extra money. It was SIGNED INTO LAW to receive it. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. 250m is the figure after rebate. 350m is the figure before. Both are correct. To say it was a blatant lie is a lie in itself "250m before around 90m of investment back in the U.K, you say? | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. No.you didn't comprehend what you were reading. The fullfact bit you quote above was that the UK sent x amount to the e.u and that we got y amount back. That categorically did NOT say the nhs would not and DIDNT receive the extra money. It was SIGNED INTO LAW to receive it." You can use all the CAPS you like, Morley. It doesn’t make you right. The bus was a scam. Cummings admitted that. It was a prudent tactic. Immigration and the NHS. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. No.you didn't comprehend what you were reading. The fullfact bit you quote above was that the UK sent x amount to the e.u and that we got y amount back. That categorically did NOT say the nhs would not and DIDNT receive the extra money. It was SIGNED INTO LAW to receive it. You can use all the CAPS you like, Morley. It doesn’t make you right. The bus was a scam. Cummings admitted that. It was a pro debt tactic. Immigration and the NHS. " You are denying what was signed into Parliament this is peak ignorance. Even for you | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. 250m is the figure after rebate. 350m is the figure before. Both are correct. To say it was a blatant lie is a lie in itself
250m before around 90m of investment back in the U.K, you say?
"According to full fact: "£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week." I knew you'd pick up and argue further, I was making a point that those figure are correct, as are more when you cherry pick certain sentences. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. 250m is the figure after rebate. 350m is the figure before. Both are correct. To say it was a blatant lie is a lie in itself
250m before around 90m of investment back in the U.K, you say?
According to full fact:
"£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week."
I knew you'd pick up and argue further, I was making a point that those figure are correct, as are more when you cherry pick certain sentences. "Hey, we can argue semantics as much as we like. We were never getting 350m ‘back’ for public spending. Ever. The bus was genius. | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. 250m is the figure after rebate. 350m is the figure before. Both are correct. To say it was a blatant lie is a lie in itself
250m before around 90m of investment back in the U.K, you say?
According to full fact:
"£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week."
I knew you'd pick up and argue further, I was making a point that those figure are correct, as are more when you cherry pick certain sentences.
Hey, we can argue semantics as much as we like. We were never getting 350m ‘back’ for public spending. Ever.
The bus was genius. "I didn't say we were. I said 'to say the 350m figure was a blatant lie, is a lie in itself' | |||
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"Feel free to post the full fact. I will show you where you are misunderstanding I’ve already posted it, and it’s easy to Google. Actual economists state the figure was less than 350m (248m was the accepted figure *before* the rebate was taken into account). And it didn’t include EU spending in the UK either. I trust experts in the field, including Sir David Norgrove What you posted doesn't back up what's said. It is saying thenuks prevuous budget contributions wouldn't martch that extra 375m That's what you've misread. I’m not going round the houses on the red bus. It was at best mistruth, and at worst a blatant lie. There’s ample evidence. IDS went on record correcting it, even Farage said he’d not have made the claim. Johnson even said 250 million himself in parliament in September 2019. 250m is the figure after rebate. 350m is the figure before. Both are correct. To say it was a blatant lie is a lie in itself
250m before around 90m of investment back in the U.K, you say?
According to full fact:
"£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week."
I knew you'd pick up and argue further, I was making a point that those figure are correct, as are more when you cherry pick certain sentences.
Hey, we can argue semantics as much as we like. We were never getting 350m ‘back’ for public spending. Ever.
The bus was genius.
I didn't say we were. I said 'to say the 350m figure was a blatant lie, is a lie in itself'"Calling the 350m is a lie is demonstrably not a lie. A judge has decided this. | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/" I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. " Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs?" Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. " Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes? | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes?" Like I told you, a simple search will suffice. I’m not going round on the red bus. It served its purpose, it helped win a referendum, and its creators admitted it was a shady but effective tactic. | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes? Like I told you, a simple search will suffice. I’m not going round on the red bus. It served its purpose, it helped win a referendum, and its creators admitted it was a shady but effective tactic. " Well then I am already aware there were no tax hikes for it. Nor spending cuts. All good then | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes? Like I told you, a simple search will suffice. I’m not going round on the red bus. It served its purpose, it helped win a referendum, and its creators admitted it was a shady but effective tactic. Well then I am already aware there were no tax hikes for it. Nor spending cuts. All good then" https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-nhs-funding-boost-is-not-a-brexit-dividend | |||
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"I would be surprised if Gove's prepared speech contained any factual errors as it would be too easy for it to be shot down. " A bit like the Energy Secretary claiming Labour was planning a meat tax ? | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes? Like I told you, a simple search will suffice. I’m not going round on the red bus. It served its purpose, it helped win a referendum, and its creators admitted it was a shady but effective tactic. Well then I am already aware there were no tax hikes for it. Nor spending cuts. All good then https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-nhs-funding-boost-is-not-a-brexit-dividend" Cheers. I'll go without the channel 4 factcheck. As stated. A judge has confirmed the 350m was correct as a gross figure. | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes? Like I told you, a simple search will suffice. I’m not going round on the red bus. It served its purpose, it helped win a referendum, and its creators admitted it was a shady but effective tactic. Well then I am already aware there were no tax hikes for it. Nor spending cuts. All good then https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-nhs-funding-boost-is-not-a-brexit-dividend Cheers. I'll go without the channel 4 factcheck. As stated. A judge has confirmed the 350m was correct as a gross figure. " “I’ll go without the things I disagree with” Very on-brand, Morley. | |||
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"The literally bill you deny exists. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/ I didn’t deny it existed. The ‘extra’ funding for the NHS came from tax hikes and cuts, not a Brexit bonus. This was well publicised at the time. Looh tax hikes and cuts... Sp by both receiving more and less tax we were able to fund the nhs? Do you have difficulty in understanding simple phraseology? Tax hikes and service cuts. Better? It’s also true, a simple search will demonstrate that too. You’re looking circa 2018-2019. Which particular spending cuts and tax hikes? Like I told you, a simple search will suffice. I’m not going round on the red bus. It served its purpose, it helped win a referendum, and its creators admitted it was a shady but effective tactic. Well then I am already aware there were no tax hikes for it. Nor spending cuts. All good then https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-nhs-funding-boost-is-not-a-brexit-dividend Cheers. I'll go without the channel 4 factcheck. As stated. A judge has confirmed the 350m was correct as a gross figure. “I’ll go without the things I disagree with” Very on-brand, Morley." As stated the judge ruled the 350m was fine. So your entire point hinged on that. | |||
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"The NHS is a funding black hole. You could pour £350 mil a minute into the organisation and it still wouldn't be enough. The truth is the entire concept of healthcare needs re-thinking for the 21st Century, but no political party has the balls to say it." Hard agree. | |||
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"The NHS is a funding black hole. You could pour £350 mil a minute into the organisation and it still wouldn't be enough. The truth is the entire concept of healthcare needs re-thinking for the 21st Century, but no political party has the balls to say it." Sadly this is very much the case. Anne Widdecombe tried having the debate on it but got shut down because of her religious beliefs. | |||
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"The NHS is a funding black hole. You could pour £350 mil a minute into the organisation and it still wouldn't be enough. The truth is the entire concept of healthcare needs re-thinking for the 21st Century, but no political party has the balls to say it." It does need a rethink, I agree. As long as that rethink doesn’t involve insurance companies. | |||
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