FabSwingers.com forum: Reasons for voting for brexit

By *rvineguy79 OP Man
over a year ago

Kilwinning

I voted for brexit because I believe we are either all in and that means with everything the EU is offering including the euro, military and everything else, and I believe the Uk would never agree to any of that so what was the point of being half in. And I have never been a tory voter and never will be

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

I voted Remain because we had the sweetest deal with all the benefits but with fewer drawbacks being outside the Euro, outside Schengen, with a veto and net benefits to our economy combined with me having freedom of movement to live and work visa free in 27 countries. The tiny loss of sovereignty didn’t impact on my life in any measurable way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted remain because it was obvious that economically leaving the bloc made no sense whatsoever, given that trade exists proportionally to geographical distance, not to mention the difficulty of 40 years of complex treaties to disengage from.

Socially it also made no sense to distance ourselves and place increased complexities and borders between us and our neighbours. EU migration was a net benefit to the country, and FoM was the bedrock of many industries and individuals with certain skills.

The Irish border was another issue that was always going to be a sticking point as many of us realised before 2016.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The unnecessary extra bureaucracy that has steadily grown and wastes billions of Euro’s, an extra level of Government thats not needed.

Has Brexit made a difference to me?

Well the company i work for has an increased order book from all over Europe and demand is increasing so on the work front its never been better.

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

"I voted Remain because we had the sweetest deal with all the benefits but with fewer drawbacks being outside the Euro, outside Schengen, with a veto and net benefits to our economy combined with me having freedom of movement to live and work visa free in 27 countries. The tiny loss of sovereignty didn’t impact on my life in any measurable way. "

Much of the veto disappeared with treaty of Lisbon in 2009 as for the benefits if you were rich or well educated it was great but if you were not you tended to pay the price as a lot of “low skilled” firms such transport stopped training Brits on assumption they could always Import workers . There are other reasons but I want to keep my post short.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"I voted for brexit because I believe we are either all in and that means with everything the EU is offering including the euro, military and everything else, and I believe the Uk would never agree to any of that so what was the point of being half in. And I have never been a tory voter and never will be "

Ian in the same mind as you in is in out is out out.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

We all hopefully made our decisions based on what we thought was best based on personal experiences vs what sone self serving politician or newspaper proprietor told us!

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

We all hopefully made our decisions based on what we thought was best based on personal experiences vs what sone self serving politician or newspaper proprietor told us! "

I would hope so too and although I don't have evidence I suspect the majority of people are capable of filtering out extreme claims from both sides and vote for what they want. If that turns out to be right or wrong in time is a different discussion. The thread about media being left or right was very informative

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

We all hopefully made our decisions based on what we thought was best based on personal experiences vs what sone self serving politician or newspaper proprietor told us! "

As someone who worked in newspaper wholesale industry the left and right wing papers are packed by the the same people and both are Hypocrites.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I voted remain because I couldn’t see a benefit in changing what we had, too much of a faff and many unknowns.

So it came down to I know more about my world if we remaining than I do about my world if we leave.

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By *rucks and TrailersMan
over a year ago

Ealing

Prior to voting I sat down with a piece of paper and listed the arguments for and against. I then concluded that it was selfish to base my vote on what was best for me personally and voted on what I deemed to be best for the UK as a Country .

The day of the result was one of the happiest of my life. A fantastic result considering vote leave were battling against the status quo.

We still trade as usual with the EU but on slightly different terms . From a practical perspective leaving made virtually no difference . UK hauliers doing Continental haulage have probably gained from leaving as far fewer EU hauliers come to the UK now. They quickly adopted to a few little bits of extra paperwork.

Removal of freedom of movement was a big win for everyone. It was ridiculous that we were relying on cheap foeigbn labour to undertake manual tasks. It removed the incentive to mechanise and become more efficient

There will be many long term gains from leaving the EU. I have yet to see anyone offer a plausible explanation of being a member of the EU. More importantly , what exactly did we get for our membership fees . ?

EU membership actually prevented some people working and made them worse off . From 2014 you were prevented from driving buses or lorries unless you had completed 35 hours CPE . Drivers wanting to work part time were unable to do so. I had licences C & E plus D. By being a member of the EU I was prevented from using them. . In addition for another qualification I was forced to do 40 hours of CPE annually.

Whilst I believe that updating yourself to the latest standard is very important an organisation such as the EU has no right to force it on people. I voted to be governed by the Conservatives , not by overpaid EU bureaucrats .

Freedom of movement also pushed up house prices and made it more difficult for first time buyers to buy houses.

It seems that the public backed a winner by voting to leave. To date I have to seee anyone offer any plausible benefits of bring a member . The UK was a net contributor.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"To date I have to seee anyone offer any plausible benefits of bring a member. The UK was a net contributor. "

An obvious benefit is that it needed fewer pieces of paper to trade before Brexit. Trade was easier.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

It's good so far to see people being open with how thay voted and arguing for or against. It makes it a better debate knowing how you votedvand why.

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By *rvineguy79 OP Man
over a year ago

Kilwinning

I'm glad to see some honest responses without all the nonsense that usually happened on these kinds of posts

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Remain

Work in tourism

EU guest bookings are significantly down

Clear now that leave arguments were misleading

Govt now opening up visas for construction and farm workers

No USA trade deal, nor EU the largest trading block on the globe

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"To date I have to seee anyone offer any plausible benefits of bring a member. The UK was a net contributor.

An obvious benefit is that it needed fewer pieces of paper to trade before Brexit. Trade was easier."

Indeed, and foreign investment in UK is down 25% since brexit

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Uk exports to EU up 24%

Eu imports to UK up 36%

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Leave or remain, we are here now. Truly the path before us isn’t going to be easy, do we rise or do we fall?

Just need better leaders I guess.

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By *rvineguy79 OP Man
over a year ago

Kilwinning

That is the problem, the choices we have in leadership in the uk is a joke tory, Labour both a waste if time and the sad thing is there is no-one else . Think we need to start voting for none of the above

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Uk exports to EU up 24%

Eu imports to UK up 36%

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf"

On what page are those figures? Can’t see them?

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"Uk exports to EU up 24%

Eu imports to UK up 36%

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

On what page are those figures? Can’t see them?"

The numbers are misleading in that they are in cash terms, not volume.

Building materials in UK have increased in cost by 60% ( EU 35%). And food in UK up 25% (EU 17%)

Brexit has cost us more.

In economic terms it has been an error, Rees Mogg on record saying economic benefits may not be seen for decades.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Higher education has been impacted too

The number of students from the EU attending universities in the United Kingdom has more than halved since the UK formally left EU

HESA report shows a 53% fall in the first year EU domiciled enrollments from 2020/21 to 2021/22

Although for balance large increases in student numbers from Nigeria +107%, India + 50%, Bangladesh +91% and Pakistan +78%

Overall the Erasmus scheme, has seen a decline of 300,000 annual placements from uk/ eu and vice versa as a consequence of brexit

It would be good to hear some actual benefits of brexit backed up with reliable data

https://opportunities-insight.britishcouncil.org//insights-blog/hesa-statistics-show-overall-increase-uk-international-enrolments-202122-big-drop-eu

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was a provable lie at the time and people are still using it.

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough

The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

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By *valarfMan
over a year ago

Tamworth

I voted leave to save having to do what Germany and France wanted us to. After Cameron's 'best deal' if we'd have voted stay they would have said you want to stay, you can do what we want.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted leave to save having to do what Germany and France wanted us to. After Cameron's 'best deal' if we'd have voted stay they would have said you want to stay, you can do what we want."

That’s not how the EU has ever worked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

Having a pre-referendum published leave strategy ironically would have helped remain immensely, as it would have prevented Brexit being all things to all leavers. Some soft leavers would have backed remain rather than go through with the hard Brexit that we ended up with. And the economics of leaving could have been made clear from the off.

You’re absolutely right though - they should have accepted that a leave win was possible and made plans for it.

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By *9alMan
over a year ago

Bridgend

I voted remain. I would agree with the previous 2 posters that the EU was well prepared for the UK to leave, we were not ready to leave & still have not got our act together

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"I voted leave to save having to do what Germany and France wanted us to. After Cameron's 'best deal' if we'd have voted stay they would have said you want to stay, you can do what we want."

I actually think the opposite. If Remain v Leave result had gone the other way 52 v 48 the British Govt could (should) have used that as leverage to get even more concessions. We will of course never know.

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By *9alMan
over a year ago

Bridgend

"I voted leave to save having to do what Germany and France wanted us to. After Cameron's 'best deal' if we'd have voted stay they would have said you want to stay, you can do what we want.

the EU always had the option of offering further concessions following the referendum but instead were verry quick to say Ok you are leaving here is your bill.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

If for nothing else, voting remain for FOM was the obvious thing to do.

I also realise a lot of people voted because they didn't want FOM.

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

"I voted leave to save having to do what Germany and France wanted us to. After Cameron's 'best deal' if we'd have voted stay they would have said you want to stay, you can do what we want.

the EU always had the option of offering further concessions following the referendum but instead were verry quick to say Ok you are leaving here is your bill. "

The majority opinion in the EU was for a closer union which they have done now the UK has left. The idea of a looser union sadly was mainly a UK one.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"I voted leave to save having to do what Germany and France wanted us to. After Cameron's 'best deal' if we'd have voted stay they would have said you want to stay, you can do what we want.

the EU always had the option of offering further concessions following the referendum but instead were verry quick to say Ok you are leaving here is your bill. "

Using the analogy of a divorce, you don’t beg the other person to stay and offer anything they want. You don’t place yourself in a weaker position. You say “right you want to leave then go. These are the consequences and reality of that decision. Jog on!”

But if you are discussing being unhappy and how you are “this close to leaving” then you can look at what concessions and changes you can make to improve the situation and stay together.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I voted remain because it made it easier to travel Europe and fitted in with my retirement plans abroad. I can still retire thankfully but travel in the interim is a right bummer.

I wasn’t really aware of the potential economic harm that didn’t really cross my mind at the time.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I voted Remain because there was absolutely no reason to vote to Leave. I could also see though the leave BS and it was obvious that the likes of Farage were purely interested in their own financial gains.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"I voted Remain because there was absolutely no reason to vote to Leave. I could also see though the leave BS and it was obvious that the likes of Farage were purely interested in their own financial gains."

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

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By *lixerMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Always European. Never, ever, fucking British.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

The e.u was always about further integration.

Financial, military,law,debt,currency,immigration.

I didn't want this.

We were taken into the e.u without the referendum we were promised under major We then ceded further under Blair.

I no longer trusted the politicians to do what was right by the voter. There was clearly a gap between what the public wanted and what the parliamentary parties wanted and I no longer felt they aligned our interests.

The uk was always an u willing member of thr e.u. having taken the most opt outs in scheghen and euro.

Going forward with the e.u mooting further calls for shared debt( with the uk having already bailed out ireland Greece and other) shared army, shared tax regimes and sharing of immigration and implanting the majority voting.

I didn't trust any further uk government not to cede further to the e.u

The only way I felt we could stop further integration which did t get the consent of the public was to leave I totality.

I also saw the trend of our services sector as well as our global trade.

Both of which focus toward the other 180 or so sovereign states of the world where emerging markets grow ever more.

In my 25 or so year living u der the e.u outr export trade with them went from 55% to 46%.

The deals the e.u negotiated ignored services for goods. Ignoring the uk economy (its 2nd biggest) in favour of France and Germanys goods.

If the UK was to grow. It needed to agree its own ftas for services.

We limited our work visas due to freedom of movement.

I wanted in place visa controls so that skilled worker the uk needed could enter.

I wanted the end of the ecj ruling over our courts.

I wanted an end to the uk not chasing g up the debts of citizens s of other clut ries using our NHS.

Now some of the above is not to say the uk didn't have recourse to chase the ehic card and other things, but our government simply didn't chase. So again. Because Parliament couldn't represent its peoples best interests.

We were left with the option of cutting out this fscilitity in ots entirety.

I didn't agree with the budget contributions and where the money went from the e.u back into the UK.

I could go on. But this is the the start.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"I voted remain because I couldn’t see a benefit in changing what we had, too much of a faff and many unknowns.

So it came down to I know more about my world if we remaining than I do about my world if we leave."

This is actually called the status quo bias.

People will tend to stick with the deal they know.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?"

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

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By *arkyp_321Man
over a year ago

East Kilbride

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk."

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift. "

Not quite.

You'd have had to have settled all disputes with the United Kingdom first.

So your oil and gas field disputes and national debt would need to be a settled discussion

You'd then have had to have met the criteria for joining the e.u on spending vs budget and tax receipts

Etc.

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By *lixerMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 07/08/23 12:06:12]

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"[Removed by poster at 07/08/23 12:06:12]"

You must have voted Leave

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Leave or remain, we are here now. Truly the path before us isn’t going to be easy, do we rise or do we fall?

Just need better leaders I guess."
totally agree a better government might have got a better deal although I don't believe labour would have done any better farage was a bit extreme but they might have been better I voted for myself and family and we are seeing benefits.i have family in Italy and Portugal and they understand why we left we have a weak government that could have got better deals so we didn't leave but couldn't trusted them so vote leave.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?"

Who supported Scottish independence?

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

Not quite.

You'd have had to have settled all disputes with the United Kingdom first.

So your oil and gas field disputes and national debt would need to be a settled discussion

You'd then have had to have met the criteria for joining the e.u on spending vs budget and tax receipts

Etc. "

Not quite.

Ask Croatia. Yes, tough route but certainly one the SNP would have taken us down.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?"

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

This is a good example of why we shouldn’t allow everyone to vote. No offence personally , but people that think like you were allowed to fuck things up for millions of people and generations to come.

If you didn’t understand the question you should have just said I dont know the answer . No one was forcing anyone to vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you didn’t understand the question you should have just said I dont know the answer . No one was forcing anyone to vote "
and people wonder why we can't have a sensible debate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted remain as I wanted to spend most of the year in my Spanish apartment, I can't now do this because some idiot decided to hold a referendum. I'm hanging on to it in the hope we'll have a rejoin referendum after the next election.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

If you didn’t understand the question you should have just said I dont know the answer . No one was forcing anyone to vote "

No offence but you encapsulate the ignorance and masturbatory self aggrandising many associate with remainers

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"I voted remain as I wanted to spend most of the year in my Spanish apartment, I can't now do this because some idiot decided to hold a referendum. I'm hanging on to it in the hope we'll have a rejoin referendum after the next election.

You can still do this for a small fee without my taxes funding it

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

If you didn’t understand the question you should have just said I dont know the answer . No one was forcing anyone to vote "

People should be allowed to vote. In the case of the referendum, maybe five basic questions about the EU and how it works. If you don't get them all right, your vote is counted 1/2. Then we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

This is tongue in cheek. But especially at the time of the referendum, so many people didn't seem to have the slightest notion about these things. One of the reasons were unlikely to see any other countries leaving the EU is because the kids learn about it in school, what it is, how it works etc.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift. "

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies."

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders "

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?"

What's wrong with the euro anyway, I lived in eurozone counties for most of my adult life. Work paid me in them, I swapped them for goods, services and beer. Worked just fine.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?"

No I don't want independence!

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?"

The EU as it’s a requirement of joining.

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift. "

As long as Scotland agreed to everything and there were no issues it would take 3 to 5 years to join which is quick for joining the EU.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

[Removed by poster at 07/08/23 16:12:39]

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By *lfasoCouple
over a year ago

South East

The title of this thread is “Reasons for voting for Brexit.”

The very first response begins “I voted remain because…”

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

No I don't want independence!"

Bur you want back into the EU which is only possible with independence...

No wonder I'm fucking confused

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place. "

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted for Brexit for 1 simple reason. I was kicked in the head by a horse.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

However it was widely discussed and pointed out how long and complex leaving the EU would be, how difficult it would be, and how many problems it would cause. None of the parties had any suggestions how, aside from the hard Brexiteers who just wanted it to be as brutal and damaging as possible.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?"

All new members states must accept it.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"I voted for Brexit for 1 simple reason. I was kicked in the head by a horse."

Knocked some sense into you then.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted for Brexit for 1 simple reason. I was kicked in the head by a horse.

Knocked some sense into you then."

lol

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear"."

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear"."

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

Not sure what this has got to do with anything. Meanwhile Brexit has been a logistical nightmare since the day after the referendum. Which is as expected.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so."

In this case, it was true, because it was explained in great detail and the steps for how complex it would be were layed out. Then, reality has happened, and has shown it to be true. On the other hand we had meaningless slogans and sound bites, which were debunked, and have since proven to be bollocks.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

Not sure what this has got to do with anything. Meanwhile Brexit has been a logistical nightmare since the day after the referendum. Which is as expected."

Because Ireland has been the main stick the e.u attempted to use in negotiations. Hence whay the NIP had to be drawn up first before other discussions.

The rest of the deal was actually quite easy.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

Not sure what this has got to do with anything. Meanwhile Brexit has been a logistical nightmare since the day after the referendum. Which is as expected.

Because Ireland has been the main stick the e.u attempted to use in negotiations. Hence whay the NIP had to be drawn up first before other discussions.

The rest of the deal was actually quite easy.

"The rest of the deal was actually quite easy"

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

We now have light touch impoets with the e.u

We have kept our strong trade and tarriff free quota free access.

What is the main problem you think we have hit?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

Not sure what this has got to do with anything. Meanwhile Brexit has been a logistical nightmare since the day after the referendum. Which is as expected.

Because Ireland has been the main stick the e.u attempted to use in negotiations. Hence whay the NIP had to be drawn up first before other discussions.

The rest of the deal was actually quite easy.

"The rest of the deal was actually quite easy"

Yes. The rest of the deal fell into place very quickly after nip signed.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

No I don't want independence!

Bur you want back into the EU which is only possible with independence...

No wonder I'm fucking confused

Did I say I wanted back or that I voted remain?

Yes, I do want back in. I want UK back in the EU.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

Not sure what this has got to do with anything. Meanwhile Brexit has been a logistical nightmare since the day after the referendum. Which is as expected.

Because Ireland has been the main stick the e.u attempted to use in negotiations. Hence whay the NIP had to be drawn up first before other discussions.

The rest of the deal was actually quite easy.

"The rest of the deal was actually quite easy"

Yes. The rest of the deal fell into place very quickly after nip signed."

Are you saying that Brexit has all fallen into place?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it."

Since when?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

No I don't want independence!

Bur you want back into the EU which is only possible with independence...

No wonder I'm fucking confused

Did I say I wanted back or that I voted remain?

Yes, I do want back in. I want UK back in the EU."

The UK isn't going back in.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so.

In which case?

Did you expect either side to show their hand?

As you said, 'have since proven' ie. were not known to be guaranteed at the time. You believed one side, other people believed the other.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so.

In which case?

Did you expect either side to show their hand?

As you said, 'have since proven' ie. were not known to be guaranteed at the time. You believed one side, other people believed the other.

One side had information, and an explanation of why it would be difficult, long and complex. The other had catchphrases.

I don't know what you mean by "show their hand", in this context.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so.

In which case?

Did you expect either side to show their hand?

As you said, 'have since proven' ie. were not known to be guaranteed at the time. You believed one side, other people believed the other.

One side had information, and an explanation of why it would be difficult, long and complex. The other had catchphrases.

I don't know what you mean by "show their hand", in this context.

Give me some 'information' that remain had and a 'catchphrase' that leave had. Let's see if you've been paying attention.

If you don't understand 'show their hand' in this context, you're definitely not as critical thinking as you like to portray. I could explain it to you but its so simple I really shouldn't need to.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Erm.

Actually during the negotiations. A lot of the new Windsor framework suggested by the uk was earmarked as unfeasible by the e.u.

Now it's feasible , when the e.u realised they'd made a HUGE error in their negotiating allowing the UK unilateral control over the Northern Irish border to allow imports and we used that power.

Suddenly the e.u decided light touch could be done and prior processing, along with border checks at delivery depots not at port.

Along with not making the uk account for 25% of all 3rd party good checks entering the e.u

Not sure what this has got to do with anything. Meanwhile Brexit has been a logistical nightmare since the day after the referendum. Which is as expected.

Because Ireland has been the main stick the e.u attempted to use in negotiations. Hence whay the NIP had to be drawn up first before other discussions.

The rest of the deal was actually quite easy.

"The rest of the deal was actually quite easy"

Yes. The rest of the deal fell into place very quickly after nip signed.

Are you saying that Brexit has all fallen into place?"

The deal with the e.u did.

Multiple other trade deals are falling wonderfully into place.

Whats there not to like?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when?"
since about 2000

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *9alMan
over a year ago

Bridgend

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000"

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's "

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro."

I believe only Denmark has a special deal int his sense, there are others who haven't yet adopted it but they 'must'. There are no dates for that though.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

No I don't want independence!

Bur you want back into the EU which is only possible with independence...

No wonder I'm fucking confused

Did I say I wanted back or that I voted remain?

Yes, I do want back in. I want UK back in the EU.

The UK isn't going back in. "

Never ever? Your opinion. I see it happening one day.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro."

"On average, it takes just under five years from the opening of accession negotiations to becoming a full member state of the EU, however countries such as Finland and Sweden took less time - with Sweden still not using the euro.

While there is an agreement in principle to join the euro as part of EU membership, countries such as Denmark have an opt out clause and others have not joined - either through choice or through failure to meet the criteria.

Since 1999 all new EU members are obliged to commit in principle to joining the euro once they meet certain criteria. It is also important to note that currently there is also no mechanism that actually forces a new EU member to adopt the currency."

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

No I don't want independence!

Bur you want back into the EU which is only possible with independence...

No wonder I'm fucking confused

Did I say I wanted back or that I voted remain?

Yes, I do want back in. I want UK back in the EU.

The UK isn't going back in.

Never ever? Your opinion. I see it happening one day."

My opinion at present, I wouldn't say never but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so.

In which case?

Did you expect either side to show their hand?

As you said, 'have since proven' ie. were not known to be guaranteed at the time. You believed one side, other people believed the other.

One side had information, and an explanation of why it would be difficult, long and complex. The other had catchphrases.

I don't know what you mean by "show their hand", in this context.

Give me some 'information' that remain had and a 'catchphrase' that leave had. Let's see if you've been paying attention.

If you don't understand 'show their hand' in this context, you're definitely not as critical thinking as you like to portray. I could explain it to you but its so simple I really shouldn't need to. "

Back to playing the player instead of the ball.

I'll leave you to what could have been an otherwise interesting conversation.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"The only regret I have for voting leave (when it was not aligned with a party) is that the government did not have a leave strategy. How many years did it actually take?

So they didnt have a strategy but you voted leave anyway? This is exactly why a second confirmation vote should have taken place.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing they didn't have a leave strategy

Probably true.

It was also widely discussed as being 'the easiest deal in history'.

No one could've expected them to show their cards (if they had any).

You didn't fall for it, well done

Yes. The media definitely influenced people with short sound bites of easy solutions to complex problems. But that was debunked a million times over, and real life information was provided.

For some reason it was ignored, disregarded when labelled "project fear".

Debunked meaning the opposite arguments were given?

Just because someone said something, that doesn't make it true.

BTW, it was Project Fear. You should ask some remain campaigners who have since said so.

In which case?

Did you expect either side to show their hand?

As you said, 'have since proven' ie. were not known to be guaranteed at the time. You believed one side, other people believed the other.

One side had information, and an explanation of why it would be difficult, long and complex. The other had catchphrases.

I don't know what you mean by "show their hand", in this context.

Give me some 'information' that remain had and a 'catchphrase' that leave had. Let's see if you've been paying attention.

If you don't understand 'show their hand' in this context, you're definitely not as critical thinking as you like to portray. I could explain it to you but its so simple I really shouldn't need to.

Back to playing the player instead of the ball.

I'll leave you to what could have been an otherwise interesting conversation."

You flounce far too much mate. You could try engaging rather than playing the victim once in a while. Then we may have interesting conversations

Can you give me some 'information' that remain had and a 'catchphrase' that leave had?

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Who supported Scottish independence?

You didn't? You're a SNP supporter so I made an assumption tbf. If I was wrong then apologies.

I am not an SNP supporter!!!! Double apology please!!!!!!

I've read you're comments wrong in that case. Apologies.

So you didn't vote for independence and you don't support the SNP?

But now want independence and would like the SNP to take you back intot the EU?

No I don't want independence!

Bur you want back into the EU which is only possible with independence...

No wonder I'm fucking confused

Did I say I wanted back or that I voted remain?

Yes, I do want back in. I want UK back in the EU.

The UK isn't going back in.

Never ever? Your opinion. I see it happening one day."

Then brits must accept a different deal than what we had originally including no control over currency debt issuance and many other things

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state."

That's an interesting point about not meeting the criteria and therefore not joining the euro currency. I'm pretty sure that joining the euro is a pre condition and applicants must work towards meeting the required levels. But can a country join and deliberately not meet the required levels. If they do is there anything the EU can do about it. Can they say that the country has not met the conditions so therefore is no longer a member or are they stuck. I'm not sure deliberately not meeting the requirements is going to be a good look for any potential member and may bring about EU punishment.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

If they don't work toward meeting it. The e.u can withhold funds.

This is currently the ongoing tactic with Poland and Hungary who have decided ecj doesn't have supremacy over their domestic courts

If you do not fall in line you will eventually be removed.

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

I will add if you do a Sweden which is currently in limbo on the euro you will be excluded from certain eurozone only votes even if involves a non euro member countries money.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

If they don't work toward meeting it. The e.u can withhold funds.

This is currently the ongoing tactic with Poland and Hungary who have decided ecj doesn't have supremacy over their domestic courts

If you do not fall in line you will eventually be removed."

Can you point me in the direction of something supporting your claim?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

If they don't work toward meeting it. The e.u can withhold funds.

This is currently the ongoing tactic with Poland and Hungary who have decided ecj doesn't have supremacy over their domestic courts

If you do not fall in line you will eventually be removed.

Can you point me in the direction of something supporting your claim?"

No.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

If they don't work toward meeting it. The e.u can withhold funds.

This is currently the ongoing tactic with Poland and Hungary who have decided ecj doesn't have supremacy over their domestic courts

If you do not fall in line you will eventually be removed.

Can you point me in the direction of something supporting your claim?"

"Legally speaking, we don't have the apparatus to expel a member state — unlike the Council of Europe, for instance, where Russia was expelled a few weeks ago," Adam Lazowski, a professor of EU law at the University of Westminster, explained to Euronews.

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

If they don't work toward meeting it. The e.u can withhold funds.

This is currently the ongoing tactic with Poland and Hungary who have decided ecj doesn't have supremacy over their domestic courts

If you do not fall in line you will eventually be removed.

Can you point me in the direction of something supporting your claim?

It would require the for example if the EU wanted to expel Hungary a 26 to 0 vote which is highly unlikely as Poland or other eastern would veto it as this is an area where the veto remains.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

Remain.

- I support a federal Europe, with a single trading bloc, ultimately one army, and beneficial and frictionless trade between members of the bloc.

- I support freedom of movement between any members of the bloc

- I support all human rights and want oversight above nation control

- I support an overseeing council to keep individual nations in check. I believe sovereignty should not be absolute.

- Putin was well up for Brexit. It was obvious anything which fractures the EU is a good thing for Russia. It's almost a meme that if Putin supports X instead of Y, Y is the defacto choice for any sane westernised individual. Putin makes it so easy to choose the correct thing every time.

- I support a strong member bloc of aligned states that can stand up politically and militarily to external threats, be they Russian aggression, Chinese economic expansion or American hegemony.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"I wanted the end of the ecj ruling over our courts.

What's wrong with the supremacy of EU law? It's a good idea. It ensures consistency.

It's no use having a shared body of EU law if it's going to mean different things in different places.

Then you don't have consistency, you have an incoherent mess and no-one knows where they are.

The EU's two-stage court doesn't deal with criminal or family law. The EU's courts only answer questions about the things that are covered in the treaties.

To make things like the single market work, there has to be a way to clarify what it means in practice.

For that to work it has to be accepted by all the member countries, so national law has to be set aside and the EU law used instead when there is a conflict between national law and EU law.

It makes sense and it's a good idea.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"I support a federal Europe, with a single trading bloc, ultimately one army ..."

What benefits do you see in a federal Europe with one army?

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

I get confused by this view from someone who supported Scottish independence.

What's the difference?

Ironically Scotland would have been forced to leave the e.u had they voted to leave uk.

Possibly, but as we were fully aligned and an indie state the rejoin process would have been swift.

But you would have had to except the Euro and would be in the same Boat as Ireland re borders

Who said scotland would have to accept the euro?

All new members states must accept it.

Since when? since about 2000

they are given a few years to change I think Poland still runs 2 currency's

All countries who didn't join before a certain date must accede to the euro.

Yes it takes time as to do so you must align your currency and national debt and deficits to the e.u

But all must eventually accept the euro.

So, there is an obligation to join which is not the same as having to accept as you state.

If they don't work toward meeting it. The e.u can withhold funds.

This is currently the ongoing tactic with Poland and Hungary who have decided ecj doesn't have supremacy over their domestic courts

If you do not fall in line you will eventually be removed."

I can understand the EU annoyance at such behaviour and suspect they would go down the withholding funds route. They often like to say that they are a rules based organisation so would have to act. It looks like one way or another, Scotland will have to adopt the euro and the last I heard that's exactly what they plan if they gain independence.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

I didn't agree with the budget contributions and where the money went from the e.u back into the UK.

Mm. The UK government spent 1% of its budget on the EU budget. That was less than the spending on government debt interest.

Please see the Office for Budget Responsibility's report for 2016.

The EU's budget is small. Two thirds is spent on regional development and farming. Admin is about 6%.

What's wrong with a successful peace project? What's wrong with treating people equally?

Some of that money came back. Rural development. Science fund. Apprenticeships. Social fund. Farm support. The European Maritime and Fisheries Fund.

Now all that has been lost. Being in the EU is a bargain. Now Cornwall is worse off than before. So are farmers, fishermen, academics, scientists...

What's wrong with improving Liverpool, a place that Thatcher forgot, and the EU never did?

Now look at the unimaginable costs! Handicapped by customs charges, customs bureaucracy, customs delays, regulatory barriers, rules of origin, VAT barriers, difficulty finding staff, demanding passports instead of ID cards, the drop in the value of the pound, loss of reputation, the xenophobic abuse of EU citizens in the UK in public and online, the shameful so called online-only "settled status" scheme...

Young Brits working in the rest of Europe are now all "experts on visas" -- they're second class citizens in their own Continent.

No wonder ungreat Britain in its disunited Kingdom is swirling down the toilet...

Northern Ireland is protected to some extent by the Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland - but only partly.

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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

"I then concluded that it was selfish to base my vote on what was best for me personally and voted on what I deemed to be best for the UK as a Country"

My wife and I concluded that it was selfish to base our vote on what was best for us personally and voted on what we deemed to be best for our children.

We voted Remain.

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By *illowendMan
over a year ago

Southwold

What company do you work for ?

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By *9alMan
over a year ago

Bridgend

"I support a federal Europe, with a single trading bloc, ultimately one army ...

What benefits do you see in a federal Europe with one army?"

we spend more on deffence than almost any other country in Europe we used to have loads of troops etc in Germany when it had a border with the USSR , so a European army might have saved us money but would have been less in our control

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"having to do what Germany and France wanted us to."

Er, no, that is nonsense. Only the European Commission makes proposals. It has to be independent. Its independence is PRECISELY there to STOP any one country acting unfairly.

That's just one of the safeguards.

Germany and France are both MINORITIES in the EU's voting system.

Even the big four together - France, Germany, Italy and the UK - don't have enough voting weight to pass ANYTHING on their own.

The EU is set up to give the smaller countries more voting weight. That's government ministers' votes.

Then there's the seats in the European Parliament. Smaller countries get more seats per head of population.

The idea that the UK was steamrollered in the EU is a myth, "it's a total myth, it's an absolute myth". Look at Steve Bullock's video on Youtube at Final Say For All in Brussels.

If the UK really wanted something then it often got it. If it was really against and put in the effort then it often wouldn't get as far as going to a vote.

Besides, if both France and Germany have agreed on something then it's usually because it's a good idea. Germany doesn't want to "lead" because of its history.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

Because the EU was a stealth project. We joined a European trading bloc (great idea) but it morphed into a superstate. They just forgot to ask us if we minded. Turns out we did. Or at least enough to make a difference did.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

There's 21,000 words on this page and IMMIGRATION has been mentioned TWICE so far.

Sarcasm ahead. Yyyyyyeeeeeahhh. You seriously expect me to believe that IMMIGRATION was barely on anyone's mind?

All those newspaper headlines demonising migration from the rest of the EU had nothing to do with it?

Even though access to benefits was always restricted? The S*n had to print a correction, didn't they? Cameron's deal was for EVEN MORE limits on benefits and it depended on the UK staying in.

"Haven't we got enough f****** foreigners?" said a d*unk to me outside a pub. He was literally the only man in the country thinking that? Really?

Demonising migration from Turkey, anyone?

Some people wanted EASIER migration from Pakistan or India.

Other people wanted NO migration from anywhere.

"They're bleeding us dry. All they want is our money" shouted a man at me outside a corner shop.

Rubbish, the EU budget is small and 1% of government spending is, yes, quite a big figure. Now with no single market and no customs union and no EU agencies it's costing far more -- and it's worse for the UK's neighbours as well.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"Because the EU was a stealth project."

Mmmmmm, "stealth" means publishing everything in PUBLIC treaties signed by every national leader and approved by every national parliament.

Where everything decided is all written up in PUBLIC in the Official Journal.

The European Commission is so "stealthy" it even publishes its meeting minutes online.

Government diplomats and ministers meet behind closed doors.

It's so STEALTHY it's all in academic textbooks.

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By *moothCriminal_xMan
over a year ago

Redditch

I mean...that isn't going to happen. It never was with us in and it won't with us out. Some in Europe have pushed for militsry integration but it is NATO that sees us cooperate and share common policy and military support with our European allies.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"Some in Europe have pushed for militsry integration but it is NATO that sees us cooperate"

Defence ministers meet informally at EU meetings. That's important.

Permanent Structured Cooperation aka Pesco is an EU thing.

Soft power is important and that's why NATO says the EU is an essential partner.

The European Parliament has an EU-NATO committee.

Losing the UK from the EU is a disaster.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because the EU was a stealth project. We joined a European trading bloc (great idea) but it morphed into a superstate. They just forgot to ask us if we minded. Turns out we did. Or at least enough to make a difference did."

There were speeches made prior to joining the EEC in the 70’s which mentioned closer union and such.

It was never just a trade-bloc.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"superstate"

Poppycock.

Who runs national security? Every member country is in charge of its own national security.

Who runs income tax? That's the job of each country.

Who runs schools, police, planning permission, elections, citizenship, local transport, television, radio and post?

Each country does all those things itself.

On policing and security the EU helps with things like the Schengen Information System and Europol.

Yes, the EU goes far beyond any other international body that has ever existed.

No countries have ever tried to combine their currencies in this way before.

No other bloc has an independent Commission and a two stage court with appeal like the EU does.

The European Parliament is still the only directly elected international legislative chamber in the world.

But to call it a superstate is ludicrous.

It doesn't even have an overall president. There are four presidencies and one of them is a country.

At the moment it's Spain's turn, supported by Belgium and Hungary. The three are called the trio.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The 80s re boom

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"superstate

Poppycock.

Who runs national security? Every member country is in charge of its own national security.

Who runs income tax? That's the job of each country.

Who runs schools, police, planning permission, elections, citizenship, local transport, television, radio and post?

Each country does all those things itself.

On policing and security the EU helps with things like the Schengen Information System and Europol.

Yes, the EU goes far beyond any other international body that has ever existed.

No countries have ever tried to combine their currencies in this way before.

No other bloc has an independent Commission and a two stage court with appeal like the EU does.

The European Parliament is still the only directly elected international legislative chamber in the world.

But to call it a superstate is ludicrous.

It doesn't even have an overall president. There are four presidencies and one of them is a country.

At the moment it's Spain's turn, supported by Belgium and Hungary. The three are called the trio."

So if it's not a superstate, how come it needs a parliament, a president, a flag, an anthem, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors? If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"superstate

Poppycock.

Who runs national security? Every member country is in charge of its own national security.

Who runs income tax? That's the job of each country.

Who runs schools, police, planning permission, elections, citizenship, local transport, television, radio and post?

Each country does all those things itself.

On policing and security the EU helps with things like the Schengen Information System and Europol.

Yes, the EU goes far beyond any other international body that has ever existed.

No countries have ever tried to combine their currencies in this way before.

No other bloc has an independent Commission and a two stage court with appeal like the EU does.

The European Parliament is still the only directly elected international legislative chamber in the world.

But to call it a superstate is ludicrous.

It doesn't even have an overall president. There are four presidencies and one of them is a country.

At the moment it's Spain's turn, supported by Belgium and Hungary. The three are called the trio.

Or a goose.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"show come it needs a parliament, a president, a flag, an anthem, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors?"

It needs a Parliament because it stands for democratic values. The people have their concerns about what the governments are doing.

For most things that are covered by the EU, elected citizens in the European Parliament have equal powers with government ministers. Both Houses can amend proposals and both have to agree.

There are four presidencies. There's no overall president. The balance of power is there to make sure that what is agreed is within what is allowed by the treaties, and has a high level of agreement.

It shares a flag with the older, non-EU, Council of Europe. The circle of stars represents unity.

It needs an anthem because music is part of Europe's heritage and harmony is beautiful. The music represents peace. What's wrong with being recognisable?

It needs laws because the things that have been agreed need to be understood. Things that have been agreed should be honoured. Every country takes on the obligations of membership.

It needs courts to give people, governments and businesses an effective way to complain. Max Schrems got EU privacy law struck down by the EU courts with the help of a government agency in Ireland.

It needs judges to settle disputes, and to overturn Commission decisions because they're not final.

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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

“If the UK really wanted something then it often got it”

Yup, it wanted to pull out of the ERM: it did (ok, we jumped before we were pushed). It didn’t want to pay it’s full whack: it didn’t (the “Thatcher Rebate”). It didn’t want to join Schengen: it didn’t. It didn’t want the euro: it retained its GBP.

Just how much more “sovereignty” did we need?

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

"overseas ambassadors?"

Because on some things the EU countries negotiate as a bloc.

That's what the EU - Canada deal is about.

And the EU - Japan deal.

And the EU - New Zealand deal.

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By *ip2Man
over a year ago

Near Maidenhead

" If it look like a duck "

The EU is not yet a superstate because the word means having power over subordinate states.

Membership is voluntary.

There are no subordinate states.

There is only a group of independent countries who have chosen to take part.

That's what you'll read in academic textbooks.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"show come it needs a parliament, a president, a flag, an anthem, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors?