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"It looks like Spain is going the opposite way to the uk. With what's likely to be a right of centre government. I wonder if this will change discussions regarding Gib. And what it will mean for populism in e.u" Gib voted 96% to remain in the EU. Still, they should accept ‘the will of the people’ and suck it up, right? | |||
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"It looks like Spain is going the opposite way to the uk. With what's likely to be a right of centre government. I wonder if this will change discussions regarding Gib. And what it will mean for populism in e.u" If the general consensus is to believed, isn't the UK moving to a centre right government with Labour being touted as the next ruling party? | |||
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"It looks like Spain is going the opposite way to the uk. With what's likely to be a right of centre government. I wonder if this will change discussions regarding Gib. And what it will mean for populism in e.u" The two parties combined are looking like falling short of an overall majority so I assume to form an effective government they need a another party in the coalition. Could possibly go to another election according to the BBC | |||
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"I'd say Labour's apparently bright GE prospects are driven more by Tory incompetence, sleaze and staleness rather than a 'swing to the left' on ideological grounds. Both pretty much occupy the middle ground apart from a handful of extremist outliers in both cases. Doesn't Spain follow PR? Now they have to cobble together a 'dog's breakfast' government. We should be grateful for FPTP "Yes it does. Seemingly they are going to hobble together with the current government until later in the year and have another election | |||
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"It looks like Spain is going the opposite way to the uk. With what's likely to be a right of centre government. I wonder if this will change discussions regarding Gib. And what it will mean for populism in e.u Gib voted 96% to remain in the EU. Still, they should accept ‘the will of the people’ and suck it up, right?" Yes they should. Thisnis a discussion on the possible diplomatic points and changes going forwards with Spain officials. | |||
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"I'd say Labour's apparently bright GE prospects are driven more by Tory incompetence, sleaze and staleness rather than a 'swing to the left' on ideological grounds. Both pretty much occupy the middle ground apart from a handful of extremist outliers in both cases. Doesn't Spain follow PR? Now they have to cobble together a 'dog's breakfast' government. We should be grateful for FPTP "Very true. The Labour party won't win the next GE. It will be the Tories that lose it. As for Spain, the whole electoral system is a "dog's breakfast" as will be whatever government comes out of it. In the short term at least I expect PP and Vox to cobble together some kind of coalition, probably propped up by a handful of minor party (separatist?) members. Long term I think it will need another election. Yes be thankful for FPTP. Spain is one example of the alternative but if you need any more proof a quick look at the current German government should be enough. | |||
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"It looks like Spain is going the opposite way to the uk. With what's likely to be a right of centre government. I wonder if this will change discussions regarding Gib. And what it will mean for populism in e.u Gib voted 96% to remain in the EU. Still, they should accept ‘the will of the people’ and suck it up, right? Yes they should. Thisnis a discussion on the possible diplomatic points and changes going forwards with Spain officials. " I’m sure the people of Gib just positively love the idea of border checks with Spain. A real benefit for them. | |||
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Or at least it seems that way to some  | |||
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"Yay. Another Brexit thread
Or at least it seems that way to some "You may not like Brexit talk, but the fact that the situation in Gib is being negotiated, is as a direct result of the 2016 vote. Facts, innit. | |||
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"Yay. Another Brexit thread
Or at least it seems that way to some
You may not like Brexit talk, but the fact that the situation in Gib is being negotiated, is as a direct result of the 2016 vote.
Facts, innit.
"It is also a fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Gibraltar. | |||
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"Yay. Another Brexit thread
Or at least it seems that way to some
You may not like Brexit talk, but the fact that the situation in Gib is being negotiated, is as a direct result of the 2016 vote.
Facts, innit.
It is also a fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Gibraltar."It was mentioned in the OP, was it not? | |||
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"Yay. Another Brexit thread
Or at least it seems that way to some
You may not like Brexit talk, but the fact that the situation in Gib is being negotiated, is as a direct result of the 2016 vote.
Facts, innit.
It is also a fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Gibraltar.
It was mentioned in the OP, was it not?"With regards to whether it will change discussions. What does that have to do with the 'overwhelming remain vote'? | |||
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"Yay. Another Brexit thread
Or at least it seems that way to some
You may not like Brexit talk, but the fact that the situation in Gib is being negotiated, is as a direct result of the 2016 vote.
Facts, innit.
It is also a fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Gibraltar.
It was mentioned in the OP, was it not?
With regards to whether it will change discussions. What does that have to do with the 'overwhelming remain vote'?"A more right wing nationalist leader in Spain will potentially take a harder line on border control (though they’d be foolish to do so) which would in turn cause chaos on Gib and severely impact the economy of The Rock, the residents of which knew full well the importance of unrestricted movement between them and Spain, and voted accordingly. But you knew that already. | |||
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"Yay. Another Brexit thread
Or at least it seems that way to some
You may not like Brexit talk, but the fact that the situation in Gib is being negotiated, is as a direct result of the 2016 vote.
Facts, innit.
It is also a fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Gibraltar.
It was mentioned in the OP, was it not?
With regards to whether it will change discussions. What does that have to do with the 'overwhelming remain vote'?
A more right wing nationalist leader in Spain will potentially take a harder line on border control (though they’d be foolish to do so) which would in turn cause chaos on Gib and severely impact the economy of The Rock, the residents of which knew full well the importance of unrestricted movement between them and Spain, and voted accordingly.
But you knew that already.
"And that would be the choice of the Spanish Govt. Then again, maybe we shouldn't allow Spain to make decisions that suit their own country. Maybe there just as racist as we are and don't want foreigners in their country. | |||
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Sorry Feisty not having a dig but did you really have to die on this hill (rock ) | |||
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"We do get a lot of “ah Brexit” appearing in threads. Some of it is totally relevant. I think it was fine and relevant in a post about the Spanish elections and potential impact on the future of Gibralter! Not sure why there needs to be yet another argument in yet another thread. All rather tedious
Sorry Feisty not having a dig but did you really have to die on this hill (rock )"And it could just aswell go the other way. The point here is that the 'overwhelming vote' has fuck all to do with the topic. Of course this vote may impact but why do we automatically jump to 'Gibs don't want to leave', they don't have a choice and it's down to the Spanish what they do or don't allow. London didn't want to leave, nor Scotland, nor NI. They are all part of the union though. The Spanish elections have fuck all to do with Brexit  | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. " Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. " Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses?" I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. " It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing?" It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib." I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power? | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power?" That’s why I said ‘if’ - Is it implausible that a right wing populist govt. could wield power in Spain before the negotiations on gib are complete? | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power? That’s why I said ‘if’ - Is it implausible that a right wing populist govt. could wield power in Spain before the negotiations on gib are complete? " You actually said: "Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will." | |||
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"(Just to annoy Feisty) Is Gibraltar becoming Spanish again more or less likely because of Brexit? " It's probably more likely. That's between, Gibs, and the 2 Govts. It's not for me to say whether it should be Spanish or British. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power? That’s why I said ‘if’ - Is it implausible that a right wing populist govt. could wield power in Spain before the negotiations on gib are complete? You actually said: "Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will."" It will affect talks. Correct. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power? That’s why I said ‘if’ - Is it implausible that a right wing populist govt. could wield power in Spain before the negotiations on gib are complete? You actually said: "Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will." It will affect talks. Correct. " The question posed was 'will it change negotiations?' If so, how so? You keep saying about Vox getting power but that's not likely, I'll refer you again to smaller parties within coalitions. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. " Thanks fkr bringing us back on point. Do we think PP or vox are anti e.u? Pro Spain? Would that make them more or less likely to be open to compromise in discussions? | |||
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"(Just to annoy Feisty) Is Gibraltar becoming Spanish again more or less likely because of Brexit? " Less likely. | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power? That’s why I said ‘if’ - Is it implausible that a right wing populist govt. could wield power in Spain before the negotiations on gib are complete? You actually said: "Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will." It will affect talks. Correct. The question posed was 'will it change negotiations?' If so, how so? You keep saying about Vox getting power but that's not likely, I'll refer you again to smaller parties within coalitions." For me i have only seen a quick wiki link saying Vox want Gib back But then again they are anti e.u I would think their negotiating power to get more relinquishment form the uk on gib, would.lie in staying in the e.u Thought Spain tbf isn't really an anti e.u country at all as they are one of the greatest beneficiaries. I wonder what was the main drivung force behind their growth. | |||
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"(Just to annoy Feisty) Is Gibraltar becoming Spanish again more or less likely because of Brexit? Less likely." I agree | |||
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"Just to note, the question posed in the OP was 'I wonder if this will change negotiations'. Let's speak about whether we think it will or not, let's not jump to Brexit Bashing. Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will. Close thread. Remember Vox will be a minority, they went get anything their own way. Isn't that what was said of the Lid Dems in their coalition with the Tories? Do you genuinely see any Spanish Govt close that border tomorrow resulting in Spanish jobs losses? I don’t think the border will be closed to gib, no. I do think it’s going to be a sticking point for years, similar to NI - Gibraltar may well end up being British and yet also essentially in Schengen. It's already been a sticking point since Brexit. So what's changing? Surely if Gibraltar get schengen clearance, that's a good thing? It is a good thing, yes. It might well knock in to NI who’d want a piece of that action - which imo would also be a good thing. However if Vox were to have any real power, as they’ve stated, that Schengen clearance would come at a price that many would be unwilling to pay - Spanish sovereignty in Gib. I'd ask you to answer the Lib Dem question. What makes you think the minority of Vox would have so much power? That’s why I said ‘if’ - Is it implausible that a right wing populist govt. could wield power in Spain before the negotiations on gib are complete? You actually said: "Given the publicly stated views of Vox, it will." It will affect talks. Correct. The question posed was 'will it change negotiations?' If so, how so? You keep saying about Vox getting power but that's not likely, I'll refer you again to smaller parties within coalitions." Looking at the BBC table VOX actually went backwards at this election and lost seats. They went from 52 to 33 seats so I would say their voice has diminished overall in regards to Gibraltar or EU. It was the PP party that made significant gains but not quite enough. | |||
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"Well the socialist government wasn’t working so they fancy a change. Let’s see what happens to the various issues my Spanish friends are worried about. In terms of Gib they always play silly buggers with the border right or left. La Linea and the campo rely heavily on Gib with the population doubling each day with Spanish workers. so I doubt much will happen other than some sabre rattling. Going out in September I will report live. " Actually it looks like it’s even more fucked for the Spanish people for a while with that deadlock mess. | |||
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