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SKS on LK

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By *melie LAL OP   Woman
over a year ago

Peterborough

Politician speak is so annoying but so is a rottweiler gnawing a bone.

I get why LK presses politicians to respond to her questions in a way the majority of the electorate will understand. Unfortunately politicians don't like saying a clear yes/no.

Kier kept on saying "we" needed to grow the economy. I understand that means more money to spend on the public sector (and negotiate pay, for example) and more money to build houses. But Laura wanted simplistic answers. Is this to trap politicians?

It was painful to watch.

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By *ik MMan
over a year ago

Lancashire

There’s so much to unpick in this one post. While I didn’t see the said programme a statement like ‘we need to grow the economy’ doesn’t mean a damn thing unless there are details on how, at what cost or what the priorities and collateral damage might be.

It’s akin to me saying ‘I need a new car’ without any plan regarding what kind of car I want, what I’ll do with the existing one, how much it’ll cost, how much I may have to borrow, how much it’ll cost to run or what impact said costs will have on my quality of life. All of which are reasonable questions to ask when considering a major purchase, or in this case an economic strategy.

As for having more money to spend on the public sector and housing, these are merely your own priorities… I’m also struggling to understand how the growth of the public sector can be linked to a long term economic plan

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By *melie LAL OP   Woman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"There’s so much to unpick in this one post. While I didn’t see the said programme a statement like ‘we need to grow the economy’ doesn’t mean a damn thing unless there are details on how, at what cost or what the priorities and collateral damage might be.

It’s akin to me saying ‘I need a new car’ without any plan regarding what kind of car I want, what I’ll do with the existing one, how much it’ll cost, how much I may have to borrow, how much it’ll cost to run or what impact said costs will have on my quality of life. All of which are reasonable questions to ask when considering a major purchase, or in this case an economic strategy.

As for having more money to spend on the public sector and housing, these are merely your own priorities… I’m also struggling to understand how the growth of the public sector can be linked to a long term economic plan "

Not mine, but the subject matter. Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now. However, if (one of his top priorities being economic growth) he becomes PM he can fully cost what he can do re public sector pay if it becomes an issue again.

Reform was an underlying message re his priorities/ missions.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now."

I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears.

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

This week's "Dead Ringers" on Radio 4 was a perfect piss take on SKS, Sunak and Davey....summed all of them up.

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By *melie LAL OP   Woman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now.

I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears."

We'll have to agree to disagree. It would be better to ask the hypothetical what would he do if... The reason I say this is because it cannot be asked in isolation of other fiscal matters when he is PM.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I've said this many a time on here. Any questions that are relevant to the PM or indeed party members are also relevant to the opposition, especially so close to a GE.

Those members are likely to form our next Govt, and even if they weren't, they want to, so that makes it relevant.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now."


"I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears."


"We'll have to agree to disagree. It would be better to ask the hypothetical what would he do if... The reason I say this is because it cannot be asked in isolation of other fiscal matters when he is PM."

You seem to be saying that we can't ask SKS any difficult questions until he's actually in power. It's going to be hard for him to persuade voters that labour are ready to lead if interviewers don't get to ask him anything beyond "what's your favourite colour".

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By *melie LAL OP   Woman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now.

I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It would be better to ask the hypothetical what would he do if... The reason I say this is because it cannot be asked in isolation of other fiscal matters when he is PM.

You seem to be saying that we can't ask SKS any difficult questions until he's actually in power. It's going to be hard for him to persuade voters that labour are ready to lead if interviewers don't get to ask him anything beyond "what's your favourite colour"."

Not at all. And he did say he'd continue to negotiate. So that led to "so you'd offer them more money?". Considering he doesn't have the control of the purse strings there's no way he'd be able to give an honest answer. To me it felt like she wanted to catch him out.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now."


"I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears."


"We'll have to agree to disagree. It would be better to ask the hypothetical what would he do if... The reason I say this is because it cannot be asked in isolation of other fiscal matters when he is PM."


"You seem to be saying that we can't ask SKS any difficult questions until he's actually in power. It's going to be hard for him to persuade voters that labour are ready to lead if interviewers don't get to ask him anything beyond "what's your favourite colour"."


"Not at all. And he did say he'd continue to negotiate. So that led to "so you'd offer them more money?". Considering he doesn't have the control of the purse strings there's no way he'd be able to give an honest answer. To me it felt like she wanted to catch him out."

That's not catching him out, that's finding out his position on strikes. If he's going to continue to negotiate, then obviously that's going to be upwards.

The doctors want 35%, the Tories have offered 6%. SKS could easily have said "I think doctors are worth at least twice as much as the Tories are offering". That would please his base because it's more money for doctors, and it wouldn't scare floating voters because it's much less than the unions are asking for.

As it is, his answer was a gift to the Tories. Come election time, they'll be able to say "Kier Starmer will always negotiate to give strikers more pay", and they'll point to this interview as the proof.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now.

I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It would be better to ask the hypothetical what would he do if... The reason I say this is because it cannot be asked in isolation of other fiscal matters when he is PM.

You seem to be saying that we can't ask SKS any difficult questions until he's actually in power. It's going to be hard for him to persuade voters that labour are ready to lead if interviewers don't get to ask him anything beyond "what's your favourite colour".

Not at all. And he did say he'd continue to negotiate. So that led to "so you'd offer them more money?". Considering he doesn't have the control of the purse strings there's no way he'd be able to give an honest answer. To me it felt like she wanted to catch him out.

That's not catching him out, that's finding out his position on strikes. If he's going to continue to negotiate, then obviously that's going to be upwards.

The doctors want 35%, the Tories have offered 6%. SKS could easily have said "I think doctors are worth at least twice as much as the Tories are offering". That would please his base because it's more money for doctors, and it wouldn't scare floating voters because it's much less than the unions are asking for.

As it is, his answer was a gift to the Tories. Come election time, they'll be able to say "Kier Starmer will always negotiate to give strikers more pay", and they'll point to this interview as the proof."

Starmer does flit between very good and frustratingly bad with alarming regularity.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Starmer does flit between very good and frustratingly bad with alarming regularity. "

I don't follow SKS' news appearances, but I've not seen any of the 'very good' that you talk about. That suggests to me that it's the bad points which get more publicity. It seems to me that he needs better PR people to get his good points across.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Starmer does flit between very good and frustratingly bad with alarming regularity.

I don't follow SKS' news appearances, but I've not seen any of the 'very good' that you talk about. That suggests to me that it's the bad points which get more publicity. It seems to me that he needs better PR people to get his good points across."

He’s taken labour from an 80 seat deficit in the 2019 disaster (realistically a two-term deficit) to a 20 point polling lead.

He’s doing something right.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"He’s taken labour from an 80 seat deficit in the 2019 disaster (realistically a two-term deficit) to a 20 point polling lead.

He’s doing something right."

I see your point, but a good chunk of that swing was just Corbyn being removed. As for the rest of it, I can't tell whether it's SKS doing something right, or just the Tories doing it all wrong.

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

It does seem rather churlish to ask any politician any question that results in a binary answer. They don't have crystal balls and can see the future, and chances are however they answer it, it might be wrong. The same plays out across boardrooms, shopfloors and even in personal lives across the world, every single day. Life isn't binary, thankfully. It'd deliciously complicated with many shades of grey, because that's were the majority of peoples swim and thrive the most. We all need to pivot. Because nothing is ever certain nor guaranteed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it’s sensible.

How can you know what is going to happen when you get in power?

There might be money or no money. Just like the last labour government, they had no money, but the economy grew and then they had money to spend.

I think the same thing is going to happen, once the tories are kicked out of government next year, then the economy will improve. Then it will be improvements galore.

13 years of failure is going to be hard to shake. But it will be shaken.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I think it’s sensible.

How can you know what is going to happen when you get in power?

There might be money or no money. Just like the last labour government, they had no money, but the economy grew and then they had money to spend.

I think the same thing is going to happen, once the tories are kicked out of government next year, then the economy will improve. Then it will be improvements galore.

13 years of failure is going to be hard to shake. But it will be shaken."

What will labour do next year to improve the economy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it’s sensible.

How can you know what is going to happen when you get in power?

There might be money or no money. Just like the last labour government, they had no money, but the economy grew and then they had money to spend.

I think the same thing is going to happen, once the tories are kicked out of government next year, then the economy will improve. Then it will be improvements galore.

13 years of failure is going to be hard to shake. But it will be shaken.

What will labour do next year to improve the economy?"

Didn't you not hear SK..? They are going to grow the economy. You know like Liz Truss was going to grow the economy..

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern "

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say."

Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations.

Not saying that’s 100% the case - it could just be KS on the defensive. But we’ve seen it a million times before

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say."


"Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations."

That could be the case, but that seems to be the wrong policy to me.

SKS needs to build up a reputation as a thinker and a leader. He should be announcing policies now to get the voters engaged. If the Tories steal them, he could just point and say "I'm already leading the country because the Tories are implementing my policies".

I still think his biggest liability is his face. I know some people think that he radiates concern, but to me he just looks like a nervous puppy trying to persuade us that it's not his fault.

It's a shame because this is Labour's big chance, and I think SKS might be messing it up for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say.

Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations.

That could be the case, but that seems to be the wrong policy to me.

SKS needs to build up a reputation as a thinker and a leader. He should be announcing policies now to get the voters engaged. If the Tories steal them, he could just point and say "I'm already leading the country because the Tories are implementing my policies".

I still think his biggest liability is his face. I know some people think that he radiates concern, but to me he just looks like a nervous puppy trying to persuade us that it's not his fault.

It's a shame because this is Labour's big chance, and I think SKS might be messing it up for them."

***********************************

Starmer's countenance always conveys a 'shocked surprise' to me, like some poor rabbit frozen by the oncoming headlamps.......(!)

Maybe...., it's the thought of that vulgar harpy he's saddled with, or the other one who looks as if she's missed her true calling, as some girls' school plain headmistress...........

All my own opinion, of course.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

He’s in denial

Uk Bottom of G7

Uk inflation 50% higher than EU we left

No EU or US trade deals

Public debt doubled by labour and then trebled by tories to £92,000 per household

Brexit economic hit £100bn annually

Foreign investment in uk down 25%

Ageing population increasing in size

by 2040, one in four of us will be aged 65 and over. additional burden on the state for housing, healthcare and pensions

Tory cuts everywhere we look requiring decades of investment that will need to be paid for.

Not surprising when put on the spot he has no answers. He’s a QC not an accountant, economist or businessman, on the economy he’s out of his depth

As the poster above points out he’s got all the criticism at Pmq’s but no firm plans of his own. I remember him saying he will start 100,000 businesses. And that publican who when asking him awkward questions, he had his minders duff him up.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say.

Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations.

Not saying that’s 100% the case - it could just be KS on the defensive. But we’ve seen it a million times before "

I understand that and have heard it before. I just don't get the 'he hasn't got access to the figures to answer any questions, excuse. As said he is happy to criticise government financial plans (rightly so) when it suits and does not hide behind excuses then

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say.

Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations.

Not saying that’s 100% the case - it could just be KS on the defensive. But we’ve seen it a million times before "

It is Sir, and don't you forget it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say.

Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations.

Not saying that’s 100% the case - it could just be KS on the defensive. But we’ve seen it a million times before

It is Sir, and don't you forget it"

Well he tends not to use his title, and that’s good enough for me.

At least he earned it, I guess.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"When asked specifically what would you do, he didn't or couldn't answer and that's a concern

He seems to have enough information when attacking government financial policy and ideas but when asked for his own plans, he suddenly can't say.

Standard opposition stuff though. Keep your powder dry until election season - unless you want the govt. to benefit from your ideas/calculations.

Not saying that’s 100% the case - it could just be KS on the defensive. But we’ve seen it a million times before

It is Sir, and don't you forget it

Well he tends not to use his title, and that’s good enough for me.

At least he earned it, I guess."

Good to hear, I hope to see the respect he deserves from you going forward....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Laura wanted to know what Kier would do now re junior doctors strike. It's an irrelevant question apart from him taking a different approach to sunak, because he cannot do anything now.

I don't think it is an irrelevant question. Lots of people still worry that labour will be ruled by the unions, so it's a relevant question to ask what he would do with striking doctors if he was in charge right now. Sadly for Labour, he didn't answer the question and allay people's fears.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It would be better to ask the hypothetical what would he do if... The reason I say this is because it cannot be asked in isolation of other fiscal matters when he is PM.

You seem to be saying that we can't ask SKS any difficult questions until he's actually in power. It's going to be hard for him to persuade voters that labour are ready to lead if interviewers don't get to ask him anything beyond "what's your favourite colour".

Not at all. And he did say he'd continue to negotiate. So that led to "so you'd offer them more money?". Considering he doesn't have the control of the purse strings there's no way he'd be able to give an honest answer. To me it felt like she wanted to catch him out."

Most people aren't wanting a copy of his Master plan. But at least show us how your policies are going to be different from the incumbents.

After ditching all the pledges that he made during his leadership campaign that would have been an alternative path. Now Labour and Conservatives are like 2 sides of the same coin.

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By *melie LAL OP   Woman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"...

Most people aren't wanting a copy of his Master plan. But at least show us how your policies are going to be different from the incumbents.

After ditching all the pledges that he made during his leadership campaign that would have been an alternative path. Now Labour and Conservatives are like 2 sides of the same coin."

I don't know what his pledges were. What I do know is he has to be flexible according to what occurs between the time he became leader of labour and PM. Lots have changes have occurred and his party manifesto for the election has to take them into account.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"...

Most people aren't wanting a copy of his Master plan. But at least show us how your policies are going to be different from the incumbents.

After ditching all the pledges that he made during his leadership campaign that would have been an alternative path. Now Labour and Conservatives are like 2 sides of the same coin.

I don't know what his pledges were. What I do know is he has to be flexible according to what occurs between the time he became leader of labour and PM. Lots have changes have occurred and his party manifesto for the election has to take them into account."

If you get rid of all the supposed policies that differentiate you from the current government and become a clone. What are we voting for one or the other on then..?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"...

Most people aren't wanting a copy of his Master plan. But at least show us how your policies are going to be different from the incumbents.

After ditching all the pledges that he made during his leadership campaign that would have been an alternative path. Now Labour and Conservatives are like 2 sides of the same coin.

I don't know what his pledges were. What I do know is he has to be flexible according to what occurs between the time he became leader of labour and PM. Lots have changes have occurred and his party manifesto for the election has to take them into account.

If you get rid of all the supposed policies that differentiate you from the current government and become a clone. What are we voting for one or the other on then..?"

Unless you are voting for a fringe party, people are mostly voting on what they see as their principles…. Pretty much catered for by red or blue

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By *melie LAL OP   Woman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"...

Most people aren't wanting a copy of his Master plan. But at least show us how your policies are going to be different from the incumbents.

After ditching all the pledges that he made during his leadership campaign that would have been an alternative path. Now Labour and Conservatives are like 2 sides of the same coin.

I don't know what his pledges were. What I do know is he has to be flexible according to what occurs between the time he became leader of labour and PM. Lots have changes have occurred and his party manifesto for the election has to take them into account.

If you get rid of all the supposed policies that differentiate you from the current government and become a clone. What are we voting for one or the other on then..?

Unless you are voting for a fringe party, people are mostly voting on what they see as their principles…. Pretty much catered for by red or blue"

Unless it's once in a lifetime one mandate that over shadows ALL others - getting Brexit done. The annoying thing is that the referendum was NEVER about party affiliation.

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