FabSwingers.com forum: Brexit and culture…

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Brexit divided the nation in half, almost literally - with a quarter of the population voting to leave the EU and a touch under voting to remain. It’s a bitter argument that will rage on and on for a generation or more, but the two will never be resolved because it’s not simply about economics or GDP. It’s a cultural shift as well. A good many Brexit voters will never understand remainers who they feel have no faith in their country to stand ‘alone’. And a sizeable chunk of remainers will always feel that remain wasn’t simply an economic choice - they had an outward looking perspective. They liked being a part of something greater - a European project.

Personally I have never been a particularly patriotic person, I fail to see why someone should be proud of the piece of land that by chance they happened to be spawned upon. For me, a world without borders, shared cultural values amongst nations are something to be immensely proud of, not turned away from. You could argue that my identity is more European than British (and certainly English). Just as I will never understand those who seek to vilify our European neighbours and friends, a hardcore brexiter will never understand my passion for the European ‘project’.

It’s because of my ardent beliefs that I don’t accept the ‘we left, now let’s make the most of it’ argument. Sorry, not gonna happen. Just as eurosceptics would never embrace the result had we remained, I fail to see why impassioned remainers should feel obliged to embrace leaving

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Brexit divided the nation in half, almost literally - with a quarter of the population voting to leave the EU and a touch under voting to remain. It’s a bitter argument that will rage on and on for a generation or more, but the two will never be resolved because it’s not simply about economics or GDP. It’s a cultural shift as well. A good many Brexit voters will never understand remainers who they feel have no faith in their country to stand ‘alone’. And a sizeable chunk of remainers will always feel that remain wasn’t simply an economic choice - they had an outward looking perspective. They liked being a part of something greater - a European project.

Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European."

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

Remember May saying ‘if you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere’? I took offence at that.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

Remember May saying ‘if you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere’? I took offence at that. "

OK so you can accept then there would be a broader English culture and heritage other than simply being born there?

Good

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

Remember May saying ‘if you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere’? I took offence at that.

OK so you can accept then there would be a broader English culture and heritage other than simply being born there?

Good"

Many of the attributes of stereotypically British culture are alien to me. It’s a complex subject.

I find nationalism a strange concept. A man born in England will tell you that England is the greatest country in the world. A chap from Peru will tell you that Peru is the greater. What is the metric? And why do we show national pride in stuff that we had no part in, nor control over? People will tell you that ‘we won the war’ - who did? Nobody born since 1930.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Am I allowed to identify as both British AND European?

That’s rhetorical BTW

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

Remember May saying ‘if you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere’? I took offence at that.

OK so you can accept then there would be a broader English culture and heritage other than simply being born there?

Good

Many of the attributes of stereotypically British culture are alien to me. It’s a complex subject.

Then feel free to delve I to how you beca.e European and why one of the most multicultural countries in the world seems alien. Is it a dislike for other cultures not European?

So you don't like nationalism. But that's exactly what e.u represents more of? A stronger European identity?

Sorry I am just not comprehending your point.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European."

"Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony."

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?"

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

The divide created by brexit was one of the aims of the project.

A divided population is much easier to control.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture."

I think if we only talk in broad brush strokes then every country has its stereotypes. Oddly often linked solely to football and holiday makers.

I have lived in several countries around the world and found a wonderful mix of people everywhere that generally transcend the stereotypes.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture."

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I think if we only talk in broad brush strokes then every country has its stereotypes. Oddly often linked solely to football and holiday makers.

I have lived in several countries around the world and found a wonderful mix of people everywhere that generally transcend the stereotypes."

Indeed, this is why it’s such a complex subject - and you’re dealing with intangibles, personal feelings.

The average Joe in the U.K has far more in common with a builder from Poland or a Shop assistant from France than they’ll ever have with Jacob Rees-Mogg, or even Yaxley-Lennon, but for whatever reason can’t/won’t see it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The divide created by brexit was one of the aims of the project.

A divided population is much easier to control."

Utter bilge.

You need a pastime.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

European culture is that the culture that doesn't understand the concept of forming a que at a bus stop or waiting for a lift where its every man and woman for themselves

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture."
what is European culture was in France earlier this year pretty much taking about there french culture my auntie and cousin live in Portugal all they talk about is Portuguese culture how different it is so even in Europe they see there own culture not European im English and proud of my English culture so what do you call European culture.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

The divide created by brexit was one of the aims of the project.

A divided population is much easier to control.

Utter bilge.

You need a pastime."

Maybe you could article why you disagree with my point instead of insulting me?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Am I allowed to identify as both British AND European?

That’s rhetorical BTW"

I think you are "allowed" to identify as whatever you like.

Men identify as women, white people identify as black.

Why shouldn't an English person identify as Greek if they so wish?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture. what is European culture was in France earlier this year pretty much taking about there french culture my auntie and cousin live in Portugal all they talk about is Portuguese culture how different it is so even in Europe they see there own culture not European im English and proud of my English culture so what do you call European culture."

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

I like the European sense of family - looking after loved ones rather than putting them in a home. Late night cafe culture, rather than pub sessions. European’s tend to value a better work/life balance - this is all generalising of course, not all brits like 10 pints on a Wednesday night and some Spaniards will live in their office - but stereotypes and generalisations happen for a reason.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I think if we only talk in broad brush strokes then every country has its stereotypes. Oddly often linked solely to football and holiday makers.

I have lived in several countries around the world and found a wonderful mix of people everywhere that generally transcend the stereotypes.

Indeed, this is why it’s such a complex subject - and you’re dealing with intangibles, personal feelings.

This seems contradictory to what you said though. You don't identify with out culture but European but out culture is more like them than the elite?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project. "

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I think if we only talk in broad brush strokes then every country has its stereotypes. Oddly often linked solely to football and holiday makers.

I have lived in several countries around the world and found a wonderful mix of people everywhere that generally transcend the stereotypes.

Indeed, this is why it’s such a complex subject - and you’re dealing with intangibles, personal feelings.

This seems contradictory to what you said though. You don't identify with out culture but European but out culture is more like them than the elite?"

No. I didn’t say our culture is more like them - I said we have more in common with them - wealth levels, family situations etc)

We should be more like Europeans (again, generalising) Work less. Rest more. Spend more time with loved ones. Take our foot off the accelerator and enjoy life.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/06/23 13:39:54]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?"

No, again you misunderstood.

Brexit removed a sense of belonging to a sizeable number of people. A sense of being a part of Europe - losing FoM was the main driver behind it, I suspect.

The EU does not = European Culture, but Brexit = a feeling of separation from that culture.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with."

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?

No, again you misunderstood.

Brexit removed a sense of belonging to a sizeable number of people. A sense of being a part of Europe - losing FoM was the main driver behind it, I suspect.

The EU does not = European Culture, but Brexit = a feeling of separation from that culture."

Why did it move it? Nothing stops people applying for residency there now. Just a charge.

Nothing stopped you moving there before.

Seems weird you always felt more European than British in culture. But you never went there.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?

No, again you misunderstood.

Brexit removed a sense of belonging to a sizeable number of people. A sense of being a part of Europe - losing FoM was the main driver behind it, I suspect.

The EU does not = European Culture, but Brexit = a feeling of separation from that culture.

Why did it move it? Nothing stops people applying for residency there now. Just a charge.

Nothing stopped you moving there before.

Seems weird you always felt more European than British in culture. But you never went there."

I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Europe (predominantly Italy) and was planning on retiring there

And your first sentence says it all. I can now apply for residency. Which could be refused or revoked at any time.

I used to have *the right* to live, work or retire there. That’s a difference which many brexiters fail to understand the importance of.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point."

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?

No, again you misunderstood.

Brexit removed a sense of belonging to a sizeable number of people. A sense of being a part of Europe - losing FoM was the main driver behind it, I suspect.

The EU does not = European Culture, but Brexit = a feeling of separation from that culture.

Why did it move it? Nothing stops people applying for residency there now. Just a charge.

Nothing stopped you moving there before.

Seems weird you always felt more European than British in culture. But you never went there.

I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Europe (predominantly Italy) and was planning on retiring there

And your first sentence says it all. I can now apply for residency. Which could be refused or revoked at any time.

I used to have *the right* to live, work or retire there. That’s a difference which many brexiters fail to understand the importance of.

It doesn't say it all. What's stopping you applying?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Am I allowed to identify as both British AND European?

That’s rhetorical BTW

I think you are "allowed" to identify as whatever you like.

Men identify as women, white people identify as black.

Why shouldn't an English person identify as Greek if they so wish?

I know that’s why the question was rhetorical

But just as the argument over gender and sex rages, identifying as a thing is not the same as actually being a thing.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end. "

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

"
English culture to me is moaning about the weather popping for a pint on a Saturday queuing up this time of year love all the village fetes been from the republic of Yorkshire I love taking my flat cap of walking with my lurcher and saying how much

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?

No, again you misunderstood.

Brexit removed a sense of belonging to a sizeable number of people. A sense of being a part of Europe - losing FoM was the main driver behind it, I suspect.

The EU does not = European Culture, but Brexit = a feeling of separation from that culture.

Why did it move it? Nothing stops people applying for residency there now. Just a charge.

Nothing stopped you moving there before.

Seems weird you always felt more European than British in culture. But you never went there.

I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Europe (predominantly Italy) and was planning on retiring there

And your first sentence says it all. I can now apply for residency. Which could be refused or revoked at any time.

I used to have *the right* to live, work or retire there. That’s a difference which many brexiters fail to understand the importance of.

It doesn't say it all. What's stopping you applying?

Nothing. And I probably will. But that’s the point you continually miss, and you don’t even realise you’re doing it.

Which was the point of the OP. You keep backing me up here, Morley.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

No, nothing to do with where I was born - it’s an appreciation and sense of European culture - which is often at odds with British (and specifically English) culture.

I'm just not understand ding which values?

How you came about to have those values. Would you not identify as more German more French?

Is Switzerland and borway more alien to you? Not being in the e.u?

I never mentioned the culture of the EU. I said European culture and the European project.

But what European culture.

You made this about the e.u and brexit and culture.

Those other coutnries aren't in the e.u.

So you didn't miss their culture?

No, again you misunderstood.

Brexit removed a sense of belonging to a sizeable number of people. A sense of being a part of Europe - losing FoM was the main driver behind it, I suspect.

The EU does not = European Culture, but Brexit = a feeling of separation from that culture.

Why did it move it? Nothing stops people applying for residency there now. Just a charge.

Nothing stopped you moving there before.

Seems weird you always felt more European than British in culture. But you never went there.

I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Europe (predominantly Italy) and was planning on retiring there

And your first sentence says it all. I can now apply for residency. Which could be refused or revoked at any time.

I used to have *the right* to live, work or retire there. That’s a difference which many brexiters fail to understand the importance of.

It doesn't say it all. What's stopping you applying?

Nothing. And I probably will. But that’s the point you continually miss, and you don’t even realise you’re doing it.

Which was the point of the OP. You keep backing me up here, Morley."

So then it's had no effect on how you would live your life?

I'm curious why having not identified with the uk culture you came back.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point."

Oh I certainly can - but once again, because this is the point you’re struggling with - you’re dealing with intangibles. Feelings. A sense of loss, detachment.

It’s easy to argue that Brexit was bad economically (it’s undeniable, frankly). It’s easy to argue that Brexit sacrificed citizens rights. But it’s a more difficult concept to explain and understand the sense of lost identity and detachment that some remainers felt, and still feel.

And as I said in the OP - some brexiters will never get it. Like you, Morley. As summed up by your frivolous ‘you can still go, just apply’

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point.

Oh I certainly can - but once again, because this is the point you’re struggling with - you’re dealing with intangibles. Feelings. A sense of loss, detachment.

And as I said in the OP - some brexiters will never get it. Like you, Morley. As summed up by your frivolous ‘you can still go, just apply’

I've personally never understood this 'sense of loss' and 'detachment issues'. It's a piece of land, not your mum or daughter.

But then again, I never 'belonged' to any country or continent.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point.

Oh I certainly can - but once again, because this is the point you’re struggling with - you’re dealing with intangibles. Feelings. A sense of loss, detachment.

And as I said in the OP - some brexiters will never get it. Like you, Morley. As summed up by your frivolous ‘you can still go, just apply’

What sense of loss? You seem to have created your own imagined loss of image. Nothing stopped you feeling culturally more European.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point.

Oh I certainly can - but once again, because this is the point you’re struggling with - you’re dealing with intangibles. Feelings. A sense of loss, detachment.

And as I said in the OP - some brexiters will never get it. Like you, Morley. As summed up by your frivolous ‘you can still go, just apply’

What sense of loss? You seem to have created your own imagined loss of image. Nothing stopped you feeling culturally more European.

I suspect you could stare at your own answer there for an hour and never see what you've done.

I think we've gone around long enough, Morley. You don't get it, never will get it, and are probably incapable of getting it - As displayed beautifully by that nonsensical post.

Go well, mucker.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point.

Oh I certainly can - but once again, because this is the point you’re struggling with - you’re dealing with intangibles. Feelings. A sense of loss, detachment.

And as I said in the OP - some brexiters will never get it. Like you, Morley. As summed up by your frivolous ‘you can still go, just apply’

What sense of loss? You seem to have created your own imagined loss of image. Nothing stopped you feeling culturally more European.

I suspect you could stare at your own answer there for an hour and never see what you've done.

I think we've gone around long enough, Morley. You don't get it, never will get it, and are probably incapable of getting it - As displayed beautifully by that nonsensical post.

Go well, mucker."

So you stopped feeling European when the uk voted to.leave the e.u. which didn't encapsulate all European countries any way.

Where you felt culturally more European by taking 1 part of each culture you liked. Not necessarily a broader spectrum of 1 culture.

You feel less European even though you can still go there, even though nothing stopped you living there previously but you chose to live in the uk, and nothing is stopping you from moving there apart from a visa application and fee.

But you feel trapped and less European now?

Seems like it's a concocted fantasy to feel sorry for yourself.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Seems a tad ironic saying you don't identify as british/ English because it's just hwere you were born. But identifying as European.

Yes, I identify as part of a broader culture/society. I don’t see the irony.

I think Morley is asking why you don't feel yourself to be a part of, say, Australian or Canadian society. Why do you feel 'European'? Is it because that's where you were born?

What is your English culture?

I suspect it’s not tangible - it’s something you feel inside.

And European culture is no different. Yes, some Portuguese will talk about Portuguese culture, not European. The same way you talk about English culture and not European.

But each one of those cultures is from different nationalities

We had our own culture withing that broad spectrum.

Sorry but I just dont think I am getting your point.

The cultures develop because of climate fo example longer nights, siestas. I think thebpolish would beg to differ on working for example

Is there a specific culture you identify with.

You’re demonstrating my OP beautifully here.

Some brexiters will *never* understand the impassioned remainer, just as some remainers will *never* understand the impassioned leaver.

No. I just dont think you're making a sensiible point.

Because - you don’t understand the intangibles at play. Just as I don’t understand why to some people the bit of land on which they were spawned is something to take such pride in.

Glad we got there in the end.

But your argument was feeling European based on tne land mass of Europe.

Not not English because of the land mass.

No that wasn’t my argument at all. Once again, you’ll never get it. And it’s ok for you not to get it.

It seems you just can't make a coherent point.

Oh I certainly can - but once again, because this is the point you’re struggling with - you’re dealing with intangibles. Feelings. A sense of loss, detachment.

And as I said in the OP - some brexiters will never get it. Like you, Morley. As summed up by your frivolous ‘you can still go, just apply’

What sense of loss? You seem to have created your own imagined loss of image. Nothing stopped you feeling culturally more European.

I suspect you could stare at your own answer there for an hour and never see what you've done.

I think we've gone around long enough, Morley. You don't get it, never will get it, and are probably incapable of getting it - As displayed beautifully by that nonsensical post.

Go well, mucker.

So you stopped feeling European when the uk voted to.leave the e.u. which didn't encapsulate all European countries any way.

Where you felt culturally more European by taking 1 part of each culture you liked. Not necessarily a broader spectrum of 1 culture.

But you feel trapped and less European now?

Seems like it's a concocted fantasy to feel sorry for yourself."

Look, i'm not going to continue here, but I will give you a bit of education that's sorely lacking.

Firstly, you've missed or misrepresented just about everything I've said - and secondly, I know you think you're the smartest guy in the room - but you don't know everything. And when you're presented with something that you don't know or understand, you should probably consider the fact that maybe the person has a point that you just don't know or understand.

It's ok to not understand something, dude. Especially when that thing is personal and intangible. I don't understand (for example) people who ardently follow their football team across the country/world. They could explain it to me until they're blue in the face - but I won't ever get it. Just like you, here.

Now I mean it this time, go well.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Feel free to make a coherent point next time.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

Reading the rest of your posts I think you might look down on the English as less sophisticated than the mainland, and egotistically remove yourself from the group for fear of being identified as a less sophisticated individual than you are by association. I’ve met a few people like this, and all have similar traits, one thing I bet you like is to be mistaken for an Italian by an Italian as you sip that morning latte, only the one because every Italian worth their salt knows milk in coffee is only to be consumed at breakfast…

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

Cappuccino at breakfast, dear

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

Cappuccino at breakfast, dear

Excellent

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

Wonder how my wife’s Italian ancestors would feel about an oat milk latte

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

Wonder how my wife’s Italian ancestors would feel about an oat milk latte

Least of their worries

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

I'm glad it's not just me that is under the impression that the UK is in Europe. But of course to have a world without borders as mentioned in the OP, means the whole world not just Europe so only embracing European culture is excluding all others

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

I happen to believe that the ultimate goal for mankind should be a borderless world. After all, borders are nothing except political structures.

The EU is a small step towards that, and should be lauded as such.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

I happen to believe that the ultimate goal for mankind should be a borderless world. After all, borders are nothing except political structures.

The EU is a small step towards that, and should be lauded as such. "

Type 1 civilisation is approx 100 years away

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The divide created by brexit was one of the aims of the project.

A divided population is much easier to control.

Utter bilge.

You need a pastime.

Maybe you could article why you disagree with my point instead of insulting me?"

I disagree with you because of the way you 'assert' most of what you contribute to be factual, when it is nothing but your own fanciful dreams and half-baked notions.

e.g... "The divide created by Brexit WAS one of the aims of the project"

(If I wanted to 'insult' you I'd tell ya to go home and get ya shine box........)

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

"I happen to believe that the ultimate goal for mankind should be a borderless world. After all, borders are nothing except political structures.

Completely agree.

Some might say "Borders protect".

But they also Divide. Control. Imprison.

I should imagine that the starving people in North Korea wished they could up en masse and leave their native country and find food and work in China, or anywhere else in the world to be fair. But they cannot. Because Borders.

Because Control.

On the flip side however, some would argue Borders Protect. My response to that, is ask Ukraine how that's working out for them. Borders Protect. Until they don't.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

The divide created by brexit was one of the aims of the project.

A divided population is much easier to control.

Utter bilge.

You need a pastime.

Maybe you could article why you disagree with my point instead of insulting me?

I disagree with you because of the way you 'assert' most of what you contribute to be factual, when it is nothing but your own fanciful dreams and half-baked notions.

e.g... "The divide created by Brexit WAS one of the aims of the project"

(If I wanted to 'insult' you I'd tell ya to go home and get ya shine box........)

That's good that you chose to almost avoid the personal insults this time.

Are you suggesting that dividing the population wasn't an aim of brexit, that it was just a side effect?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

The UK is in Europe, which makes you European.

Brexit removed our access to the EU, it did not remove your identity as a European.

I know you’re going to tell me I’m a country mile off but I couldn’t help notice the comparison in your posts to a few people I know.

I happen to believe that the ultimate goal for mankind should be a borderless world. After all, borders are nothing except political structures.

The EU is a small step towards that, and should be lauded as such. "

What you need then is a world culture instead. Luckily you already live in Europe

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"I happen to believe that the ultimate goal for mankind should be a borderless world. After all, borders are nothing except political structures.

Completely agree.

Some might say "Borders protect".

But they also Divide. Control. Imprison.

Because Control.

On the flip side however, some would argue Borders Protect. My response to that, is ask Ukraine how that's working out for them. Borders Protect. Until they don't.

If you followed your proposal, there would be continuous mass migration of humanity around the globe. That's clearly impractical and undesirable.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I happen to believe that the ultimate goal for mankind should be a borderless world. After all, borders are nothing except political structures.

Completely agree.

Some might say "Borders protect".

But they also Divide. Control. Imprison.

Because Control.

On the flip side however, some would argue Borders Protect. My response to that, is ask Ukraine how that's working out for them. Borders Protect. Until they don't.

If you followed your proposal, there would be continuous mass migration of humanity around the globe. That's clearly impractical and undesirable. "

If you’d asked people in the early 20th century about a borderless Europe they’d have told you that it was clearly impractical and undesirable.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

Regardless of whether you believe climate change or not, it is undeniable that the Earth is getting hotter (whatever the reason/cause). This WILL cause pressure on economic migration as people in the hotter areas in the World begin to find life almost impossible with droughts and famine. Add to that human nature to go to war over resources and we will see increased conflict focused around these “hotter areas” causing yet more people to flee to safety.

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away."

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

The infrastructure of Europe will be maintained but it will not flourish, these workers can move freely around the globe to work supplying the other elites in the US, Aus, South Africa, and Saudi / Emirates.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

Sounds like I have had a huge dose of conspiracy theory and an extra helping of sci-fi... Some of this is a little imagination, some of it not and if you would like to see the beginnings of new world of elite living google NEOM

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

Careful NotMe you’ll start getting tinfoil hat comments and references to illuminati and New World Order!

Jokes aside sounds interesting will take a look.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

Careful NotMe you’ll start getting tinfoil hat comments and references to illuminati and New World Order!

Jokes aside sounds interesting will take a look."

I know it sounds crazy but when you do look into it and consider the potential, it is rather scary.

$500 billion behind it, phase one due to complete 2025 and you can fly into NEOM bay return from London for around £600.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

Had it not been historically ravaged, Africa should be a seat of modern superpowers - the resources they’re like cobalt, platinum, masses of arable land and fresh water sources - it should be the most powerful continent on the globe. Maybe one day it will be.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists"

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?"

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The wealthy living in purpose built cities that are built to withstand the heat, floods and natural disasters that climate change will bring. They will be the only ones breathing fresh air and living in carbon free environments.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

As I said it sounds crazy but it has the potential to actually happen. The OP and other posters saying they want a world with no borders, it might actually happen, but not how their socialist intent would envision...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”

? Arthur Schopenhauer

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism."

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia."
lol I don't see any mass immigration to socialist countries.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia."

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries. "

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries. "

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet".

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet". "

You know we here that Brexiteers can't decide what Brexit actually means...

The same goes for socialists.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

It was communist. Don't let the name confuse you.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet". "

Just so we're clear.

1. You said something completely false. Those countries aren't socialist.

2. You made up a quote that I didn't say.

Not sure where to go from here.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia."

You don’t know what socialism is, do you?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

Wait til we tell you about the democratic people’s republic of North Korea, or the German Democratic Republic.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet".

Just so we're clear.

1. You said something completely false. Those countries aren't socialist.

2. You made up a quote that I didn't say.

Not sure where to go from here."

What's Jeremy Corbyn doing nowadays?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet".

Just so we're clear.

1. You said something completely false. Those countries aren't socialist.

2. You made up a quote that I didn't say.

Not sure where to go from here.

What's Jeremy Corbyn doing nowadays?"

He’s a sitting MP. Unlike some people we could mention.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet".

Just so we're clear.

1. You said something completely false. Those countries aren't socialist.

2. You made up a quote that I didn't say.

Not sure where to go from here.

What's Jeremy Corbyn doing nowadays?"

Making jam maybe?

How's that related to your confusion about what socialism is or you making up quotes that I didn't say?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet".

Just so we're clear.

1. You said something completely false. Those countries aren't socialist.

2. You made up a quote that I didn't say.

Not sure where to go from here.

What's Jeremy Corbyn doing nowadays?

He’s a sitting MP. Unlike some people we could mention. "

Ah yes, the People's Republic of Islington North.

Is he standing for Labour again?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!"

As I said earlier. The socialists can't decide what socialism is.

Every single time it's a version they don't like, it's 'that's not socialism, that's communism'

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!

As I said earlier. The socialists can't decide what socialism is.

Every single time it's a version they don't like, it's 'that's not socialism, that's communism'"

Hmm so USSR, China, North Korea, and Cambodia were Socialist not Communist?

Fuck my History degree was all wrong! Bloody leftie lecturers!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Slightly tangential but related to the borderless point...

There is a reason Europe has been so dominant throughout much of history. Geography giving us a more temperate climate and therefore productive environment leading to economic power.

It is therefore inevitable Europe will face ever greater pressure from migration.

As human beings what do we do? Do we say “not our problem” or do we look for solutions as this is not going away.

I would predict Europe becoming the farmland for the new world. Europe will have a population of mixed origin, working to provide the millions of elites their fine foods and wines.

Eventually those elites will need to form alliances or destroy each other as they harness the full power of the Earth to maintain their existence. Type 1 civilisation will then be complete.

I’m not convinced that the emirates are a long term prospect for prosperity - oil isn’t going to sustain the region indefinitely.

I think you could be right, and that is why NEOM exists

I took a quick read. All sounds lovely. Nirvana! But I am struggling to reconcile the Code of Conduct with middle eastern countries and the locale?

If you take the path of only the wealthy will be able to live in this enclosed city of the future, migration could reverse, wealthy Europeans migrating on mass.

The future of borderless countries could become a reality, as normal people are left to roam outside of these mega cities inclosed and protected from the outside.

With Socialists in charge there wouldn’t be wealthy people living in posh enclaves whilst the poor are left to fend for themselves.

That’d be capitalism.

That's definitely how things worked out in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cambodia.

None of which are or were socialist countries.

Ah yes, "real Socialism hasn't been tried yet".

Just so we're clear.

1. You said something completely false. Those countries aren't socialist.

2. You made up a quote that I didn't say.

Not sure where to go from here.

What's Jeremy Corbyn doing nowadays?

He’s a sitting MP. Unlike some people we could mention.

Ah yes, the People's Republic of Islington North.

Is he standing for Labour again?"

I don’t believe he is, no.

Why is that an issue? What point are you driving at here?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!

As I said earlier. The socialists can't decide what socialism is.

Every single time it's a version they don't like, it's 'that's not socialism, that's communism'

Hmm so USSR, China, North Korea, and Cambodia were Socialist not Communist?

Fuck my History degree was all wrong! Bloody leftie lecturers!"

I didn't say that, did I?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!

As I said earlier. The socialists can't decide what socialism is.

Every single time it's a version they don't like, it's 'that's not socialism, that's communism'"

Except those nations were literally communist.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!

As I said earlier. The socialists can't decide what socialism is.

Every single time it's a version they don't like, it's 'that's not socialism, that's communism'

Hmm so USSR, China, North Korea, and Cambodia were Socialist not Communist?

Fuck my History degree was all wrong! Bloody leftie lecturers!

I didn't say that, did I? "

That was the implication across several posts though! It was you who spelled out Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Big sigh the lack of knowledge is sometimes heart breaking. I blame our education system!

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrats - Conservatism - Fascism

It is a bit more complicated but we don’t do nuance around here!

As I said earlier. The socialists can't decide what socialism is.

Every single time it's a version they don't like, it's 'that's not socialism, that's communism'

Hmm so USSR, China, North Korea, and Cambodia were Socialist not Communist?

Fuck my History degree was all wrong! Bloody leftie lecturers!"

It's odd that the Left feel that "Socialism" needs to be very tightly defined.

It's almost like they have something to hide.