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"That's another by election.." O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM  | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM "Back by Christmas …. | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
Back by Christmas ….
"Ha, nope, Alexander is finished  | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM "Nowt so queer as folk. Some even thought Corbyn would be PM. | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
Back by Christmas ….
"Maybe Nadine and himself will be on the couch together.. | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
Back by Christmas ….
"If he can make money from it he will. But I suspect he will retire to a lucrative after dinner touring circuit and highly paid advisory roles. Like Blair. | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now” "Stamps feet, scowls at anyone present and screams till he's sick.. | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now” "So he is claiming to quit.. this way the report never has to come out…. He would never have won that by election anyway… and if they all quit together and the tories get trounced in them all, it puts more pressure on Rishi | |||
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"This should hopefully be the downfall of the Tories " Fat chance. But we can live in hope. | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now”
So he is claiming to quit.. this way the report never has to come out….
He would never have won that by election anyway… and if they all quit together and the tories get trounced in them all, it puts more pressure on Rishi "Current polling on the constituency has him safe. The hatchet job report would likely make things tighter especially once the msm wade in with their opinions. Conservative Party members are furious.. Sunak will be next to go (maybe by Christmas! ) | |||
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"This should hopefully be the downfall of the Tories " There are no "Tories". Just different shades of Blair. | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now” "The irony of this statement is that because the Labour committee leader Chris Bryant actually recused himself, Harriet is the stand in… but the standards and privileges committee actually has a Tory majority on it! 
But it’s not as good a press if he goes after Bernard Jenkins….. | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now”
The irony of this statement is that because the Labour committee leader Chris Bryant actually recused himself, Harriet is the stand in… but the standards and privileges committee actually has a Tory majority on it!
But it’s not as good a press if he goes after Bernard Jenkins….. "Yes… Crazy that the Tory majority committee arrives at an outcome that will bring down their own party in government. Rumours flying around tonight that a third MP is about to step down with immediate effect. Timing is everything, and most of what is happening now in back rooms is about protecting the WhatsApp messages and trying to keep Sunak “safe” | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now”
The irony of this statement is that because the Labour committee leader Chris Bryant actually recused himself, Harriet is the stand in… but the standards and privileges committee actually has a Tory majority on it!
But it’s not as good a press if he goes after Bernard Jenkins…..
Yes… Crazy that the Tory majority committee arrives at an outcome that will bring down their own party in government. Rumours flying around tonight that a third MP is about to step down with immediate effect.
Timing is everything, and most of what is happening now in back rooms is about protecting the WhatsApp messages and trying to keep Sunak “safe”
"If anyone else is going tonight.. look for it to be a long standing Tory who probably got an honour in bojos leaving list… my favourites were moggsy or wiggy fabricant The other theory is that if they all go at the same time, the report doesn’t come out.. and Johnson gets parachuted into a safer seat, with a clean slate because in theory he would have left and double jeopardy rules would apply… | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World." 1) Trump opening his mouth is trumps worst enemy…. All the people in the report were all of trumps allies.. (not 1 democrat in it!!!) 2) again… the committee Johnson is railing against has a Tory majority on it!!!!! | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World." wouldn't Boris had faced a bye election and so a public vote. More democratic tan sending mates to the upper house. | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World." If you don’t like it move to North Korea | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US." Also… if you read the indictment… jack smith and the DOJ have been super smart again in that they have not charged him with anything before he leaves the white house…. They are actually not charging him with anything related taking the documents from Washington to mar-a-lago… it’s him actually not giving back all the documents when asked nicely and the obstruction about trying to hide the documents from being given back | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World. If you don’t like it move to North Korea "I won't need to. It's already headed that way and Smarmer will seal the deal. Give it ten years and people in the UK will be seeking asylum in North Korea. | |||
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" Tory party will further crumble next week. Sunak is fucked now Bottom G7 Highest tax rises in 70 years National debt trebled Brexit gone badly wrong No US trade deal 7 million waiting hospital " If there is one thing we can learn from this section of the fab forums, it's that people who vote Tory are immune from this kind of information. | |||
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" Tory party will further crumble next week. Sunak is fucked now Bottom G7 Highest tax rises in 70 years National debt trebled Brexit gone badly wrong No US trade deal 7 million waiting hospital If there is one thing we can learn from this section of the fab forums, it's that people who vote Tory are immune from this kind of information." In what way is that list "information"? And which policies that the Tories pursued that have led to those outcomes did you disapprove of? Did you want COVID to "let rip"? Granny killer. I would have thought you would be all in favour of higher taxes and increased government expenditure. Or are you now wanting to turn the UK into some sort of pound shop Singapore? | |||
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" Tory party will further crumble next week. Sunak is fucked now Bottom G7 Highest tax rises in 70 years National debt trebled Brexit gone badly wrong No US trade deal 7 million waiting hospital If there is one thing we can learn from this section of the fab forums, it's that people who vote Tory are immune from this kind of information. In what way is that list "information"? " information noun facts provided or learned about something or someone. "a vital piece of information" " And which policies that the Tories pursued that have led to those outcomes did you disapprove of? " Can you rephrase this, I don't understand the question. " Did you want COVID to "let rip"? " Nope. " Granny killer. " You've lost me. " I would have thought you would be all in favour of higher taxes and increased government expenditure. Or are you now wanting to turn the UK into some sort of pound shop Singapore?" why? | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World. If you don’t like it move to North Korea
I won't need to. It's already headed that way and Smarmer will seal the deal. Give it ten years and people in the UK will be seeking asylum in North Korea."Plenty of safe countries before Brits could arrive there! | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall "If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement. | |||
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"BTW “Boris steps down” ………. Would not be surprised to see him start his own political party with Nadine et al. As long as he can monetise it! " That has to be on the cards I think | |||
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" Tory party will further crumble next week. Sunak is fucked now Bottom G7 Highest tax rises in 70 years National debt trebled Brexit gone badly wrong No US trade deal 7 million waiting hospital If there is one thing we can learn from this section of the fab forums, it's that people who vote Tory are immune from this kind of information. In what way is that list "information"? information noun facts provided or learned about something or someone. "a vital piece of information" And which policies that the Tories pursued that have led to those outcomes did you disapprove of? Can you rephrase this, I don't understand the question. Did you want COVID to "let rip"? Nope. Granny killer. You've lost me. I would have thought you would be all in favour of higher taxes and increased government expenditure. Or are you now wanting to turn the UK into some sort of pound shop Singapore? why?" And in what way is "lowest G7" a fact? It isn't even a coherent sentence. Neither is "7 million waiting hospital". But somehow I'm not surprised that you can find some sort of truth in someone writing incoherent gibberish. | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World. If you don’t like it move to North Korea
I won't need to. It's already headed that way and Smarmer will seal the deal. Give it ten years and people in the UK will be seeking asylum in North Korea.
Plenty of safe countries before Brits could arrive there!"There aren't. I'm fleeing from a terrible failing socialist dictatorship and my life is under threat. The only way I will be safe is to choose the country of my liking, maybe Barbados. Hopefully they will provide me with my own hotel room with a sea view and some spending money for ice cream and a few beers each day. Oh yes, and I'm only 15. And a qualified brain surgeon with many years experience working for Our NHS (surely everyone has heard of that and aspires to it). | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement. "All politicians tell people what they want to hear. The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged by Brexit that they think that somehow the only reason people would vote for it is because they were lied to. I mean, do you really think that Ed Davey actually believes that women can have a penis? Most of us of course understand that politicians lie, and we sift through the information and make a judgement as to who will cause the least damage. That is the process everyone goes through. For Remoaners, their arrogance, and lack of comprehension of others' lives and beliefs prevents them from understanding that others could have a different view when presented with the same information, so the result can only be due to lies, or Russian interference, or probably even alien invasion. Remoaners think they are sophisticated because they went to Europe on holiday once, but they are in fact the most small minded provincials around in their inability to understand other people who are not like them. As with all Remoaners, if you want to know why you lost, all you have to do is look in the mirror. | |||
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"“ It is very sad to be leaving parliament – at least for now – but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias.” ….”at least for now”
So he is claiming to quit.. this way the report never has to come out….
He would never have won that by election anyway… and if they all quit together and the tories get trounced in them all, it puts more pressure on Rishi
Current polling on the constituency has him safe.
The hatchet job report would likely make things tighter especially once the msm wade in with their opinions.
Conservative Party members are furious.. Sunak will be next to go (maybe by Christmas! )"Given the past few by-elections I’d argue that there are very few Tory majorities which are *safe* | |||
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" Tory party will further crumble next week. Sunak is fucked now Bottom G7 Highest tax rises in 70 years National debt trebled Brexit gone badly wrong No US trade deal 7 million waiting hospital If there is one thing we can learn from this section of the fab forums, it's that people who vote Tory are immune from this kind of information. In what way is that list "information"? information noun facts provided or learned about something or someone. "a vital piece of information" And which policies that the Tories pursued that have led to those outcomes did you disapprove of? Can you rephrase this, I don't understand the question. Did you want COVID to "let rip"? Nope. Granny killer. You've lost me. I would have thought you would be all in favour of higher taxes and increased government expenditure. Or are you now wanting to turn the UK into some sort of pound shop Singapore? why? And in what way is "lowest G7" a fact? It isn't even a coherent sentence. Neither is "7 million waiting hospital". But somehow I'm not surprised that you can find some sort of truth in someone writing incoherent gibberish. " I think you've illustrated the point adequately. Thank you. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
All politicians tell people what they want to hear.
The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged by Brexit that they think that somehow the only reason people would vote for it is because they were lied to.
I mean, do you really think that Ed Davey actually believes that women can have a penis?
Most of us of course understand that politicians lie, and we sift through the information and make a judgement as to who will cause the least damage. That is the process everyone goes through.
For Remoaners, their arrogance, and lack of comprehension of others' lives and beliefs prevents them from understanding that others could have a different view when presented with the same information, so the result can only be due to lies, or Russian interference, or probably even alien invasion.
Remoaners think they are sophisticated because they went to Europe on holiday once, but they are in fact the most small minded provincials around in their inability to understand other people who are not like them.
As with all Remoaners, if you want to know why you lost, all you have to do is look in the mirror."Sit down, have a Horlivka or something to calm you down. You seem all agitated. Is it because the house of lies is falling in and your moment in the limelight is being extinguished? Sad | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement. "The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM."Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM."That’s how politics works. You win by swaying the centre/soft votes. Or in Boris’ case - the easily fooled. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart."Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats….. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats….."Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall. Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats….."Upto 9% of Britons still think Brexit was a good idea. Approx 20% of leave voters still think it was a good idea. I know you can't trust in the accuracy of yougov surveys. But even if it's half that, utterly bonkers. So there are still people who would vote for what they perceive to be the brexitisty party. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
"Sorry Chuck, you don’t get to put the blame of 13 years of Tory misrule on to labour voters. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Sorry Chuck, you don’t get to put the blame of 13 years of Tory misrule on to labour voters."They kept them there, selfishly, as I said well done Labour voters, you got what you wished for…. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Sorry Chuck, you don’t get to put the blame of 13 years of Tory misrule on to labour voters.
They kept them there, selfishly, as I said well done Labour voters, you got what you wished for…."4 years of Tory rule because of Tory voters, 4 years of Tory rule because of Labour voters
It is not 13 years of Tory rule. Why you may ask?
Because the first 5 years were a coalition and I'm not allowing them to have it both ways. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Sorry Chuck, you don’t get to put the blame of 13 years of Tory misrule on to labour voters.
They kept them there, selfishly, as I said well done Labour voters, you got what you wished for….
4 years of Tory rule because of Tory voters, 4 years of Tory rule because of Labour voters
It is not 13 years of Tory rule. Why you may ask?
Because the first 5 years were a coalition and I'm not allowing them to have it both ways."Who was the leading party in the coalition? | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Sorry Chuck, you don’t get to put the blame of 13 years of Tory misrule on to labour voters.
They kept them there, selfishly, as I said well done Labour voters, you got what you wished for….
4 years of Tory rule because of Tory voters, 4 years of Tory rule because of Labour voters
It is not 13 years of Tory rule. Why you may ask?
Because the first 5 years were a coalition and I'm not allowing them to have it both ways.
Who was the leading party in the coalition?"The Tories were the larger party. A coalition. Anything good that happened was Lib Dems and anything bad that happened was Tories. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Sorry Chuck, you don’t get to put the blame of 13 years of Tory misrule on to labour voters.
They kept them there, selfishly, as I said well done Labour voters, you got what you wished for….
4 years of Tory rule because of Tory voters, 4 years of Tory rule because of Labour voters
It is not 13 years of Tory rule. Why you may ask?
Because the first 5 years were a coalition and I'm not allowing them to have it both ways.
Who was the leading party in the coalition?"I’ve got some straws for you to grab hold of  | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
"It's a fair point, they did enable him as did the Tory voters who thrice elected Blair.. Similarly the snake oil salesperson in America who just started her sentence for the medical fraud, made millions mind.. The trick of fooling the masses or enough of them to gain power isn't exactly new nor are the methods by which it's achieved.. It's almost like the establishment elite have designed a system to continue the status quo.. Hey ho.. | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World. If you don’t like it move to North Korea
I won't need to. It's already headed that way and Smarmer will seal the deal. Give it ten years and people in the UK will be seeking asylum in North Korea."Stop being a snowflake | |||
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"Good riddance. Yes he was charismatic and a bold leader, but also reckless and a shameless liar. He was also a divisive force in the Tory party which did them and the nation immense harm. I'm glad he's gone, and his lapdog Dorries too. " we need honesty & integrity in politicians | |||
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"Good riddance. Yes he was charismatic and a bold leader, but also reckless and a shameless liar. He was also a divisive force in the Tory party which did them and the nation immense harm. I'm glad he's gone, and his lapdog Dorries too. we need honesty & integrity in politicians "
We do. But they will never get anywhere near office. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
All politicians tell people what they want to hear.
The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged by Brexit that they think that somehow the only reason people would vote for it is because they were lied to.
I mean, do you really think that Ed Davey actually believes that women can have a penis?
Most of us of course understand that politicians lie, and we sift through the information and make a judgement as to who will cause the least damage. That is the process everyone goes through.
For Remoaners, their arrogance, and lack of comprehension of others' lives and beliefs prevents them from understanding that others could have a different view when presented with the same information, so the result can only be due to lies, or Russian interference, or probably even alien invasion.
Remoaners think they are sophisticated because they went to Europe on holiday once, but they are in fact the most small minded provincials around in their inability to understand other people who are not like them.
As with all Remoaners, if you want to know why you lost, all you have to do is look in the mirror."That a lot of bluster bearing in my it’s his own political party that took him down… and the majority of mps on the standards and privileges committee are tories like sir Bernard Jenkins So yeah… remoan away!!!!! God it’s like you write a script!!!! | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
All politicians tell people what they want to hear.
The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged by Brexit that they think that somehow the only reason people would vote for it is because they were lied to.
I mean, do you really think that Ed Davey actually believes that women can have a penis?
Most of us of course understand that politicians lie, and we sift through the information and make a judgement as to who will cause the least damage. That is the process everyone goes through.
For Remoaners, their arrogance, and lack of comprehension of others' lives and beliefs prevents them from understanding that others could have a different view when presented with the same information, so the result can only be due to lies, or Russian interference, or probably even alien invasion.
Remoaners think they are sophisticated because they went to Europe on holiday once, but they are in fact the most small minded provincials around in their inability to understand other people who are not like them.
As with all Remoaners, if you want to know why you lost, all you have to do is look in the mirror.
That a lot of bluster bearing in my it’s his own political party that took him down… and the majority of mps on the standards and privileges committee are tories like sir Bernard Jenkins
So yeah… remoan away!!!!!
God it’s like you write a script!!!! "It is, I agree. That last sentence however, the part is true. | |||
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"The other thing brexiteers seem to forget is that the tories have an 80 seat majority…. So blaming all the piss poor failure of the application and ramifications of brexit on remoaners is a bit rich! Face it… the people who got rid of Johnson were Tory mps, and the majority of people who wrote this report on the standards and privileges committee were Tory mps Blue on blue crime!! " I think the Tories are just as split as the Labour party on the brexit subject. A large majority helps but not as much when much of that majority fundamentally disagrees. I don't think it's accurate to paint one party as remain and the other as leave when both parties are split | |||
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"The other thing brexiteers seem to forget is that the tories have an 80 seat majority…. So blaming all the piss poor failure of the application and ramifications of brexit on remoaners is a bit rich! Face it… the people who got rid of Johnson were Tory mps, and the majority of people who wrote this report on the standards and privileges committee were Tory mps Blue on blue crime!! " and to add ...BJ purged many of the remain leaning/central blues. He stacked the pack and still couldn't win. (Also, the breaking point for many was BJ committing blue on blue... It wasnt partygate, or the Russian family, or the iffy wallpaper, but the pincher case that caused them to finally break from the testudo formation around him). | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
"Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is... Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because: 1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done. 2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons."No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all. I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat. Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago."What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"? | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?"What do you think? They’re northern labour voters | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?
What do you think? They’re northern labour voters "I don't know, that's why I asked. I'm neither northern, nor a labour voter. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?
What do you think? They’re northern labour voters
I don't know, that's why I asked.
I'm neither northern, nor a labour voter. "Either am I but I know enough that northern Labour strongholds and their voters are proud Labour voters who believe in labour values and not Tory values. To turnout on mass and switch lifelong allegiance to your party is certainly throwing those historical values out of the window | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?
What do you think? They’re northern labour voters
I don't know, that's why I asked.
I'm neither northern, nor a labour voter.
Either am I but I know enough that northern Labour strongholds and their voters are proud Labour voters who believe in labour values and not Tory values.
To turnout on mass and switch lifelong allegiance to your party is certainly throwing those historical values out of the window "Excellent. Then you were the right person to ask.... What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"? | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?
What do you think? They’re northern labour voters
I don't know, that's why I asked.
I'm neither northern, nor a labour voter.
Either am I but I know enough that northern Labour strongholds and their voters are proud Labour voters who believe in labour values and not Tory values.
To turnout on mass and switch lifelong allegiance to your party is certainly throwing those historical values out of the window
Excellent. Then you were the right person to ask....
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?"You recall the other thread in which we spoke about how being polite and courteous in debate had some merit regardless of political persuasion? Do you think I would not notice you are being argumentative to push a point you already know the answer too? If you have something worth discussing that isn’t leading please continue, if not I will leave you to it | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM "He may still come back on tbe PM trail. I'd watch this space. | |||
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"The other thing brexiteers seem to forget is that the tories have an 80 seat majority…. So blaming all the piss poor failure of the application and ramifications of brexit on remoaners is a bit rich! Face it… the people who got rid of Johnson were Tory mps, and the majority of people who wrote this report on the standards and privileges committee were Tory mps Blue on blue crime!! and to add ...BJ purged many of the remain leaning/central blues. He stacked the pack and still couldn't win. (Also, the breaking point for many was BJ committing blue on blue... It wasnt partygate, or the Russian family, or the iffy wallpaper, but the pincher case that caused them to finally break from the testudo formation around him). " I dont think BJ did. Many stood as Independents of their own volition and lost. What purge do you speak of? If so TM wouldn't be a Conservative. | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
He may still come back on tbe PM trail.
I'd watch this space."Johnson loves nothing more than money. Particularly spending money. He’ll be out of politics for good now (and good riddance), and he’ll earn huge money in the outside world. | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
He may still come back on tbe PM trail.
I'd watch this space.
Johnson loves nothing more than money. Particularly spending money.
He’ll be out of politics for good now (and good riddance), and he’ll earn huge money in the outside world."Both his resignation speeches suggest he isn't. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats….."Happy to see these polls. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?
What do you think? They’re northern labour voters
I don't know, that's why I asked.
I'm neither northern, nor a labour voter.
Either am I but I know enough that northern Labour strongholds and their voters are proud Labour voters who believe in labour values and not Tory values.
To turnout on mass and switch lifelong allegiance to your party is certainly throwing those historical values out of the window
Excellent. Then you were the right person to ask....
What values might they have thrown out of the window by voting Tory to "get brexit done"?
You recall the other thread in which we spoke about how being polite and courteous in debate had some merit regardless of political persuasion? Do you think I would not notice you are being argumentative to push a point you already know the answer too? If you have something worth discussing that isn’t leading please continue, if not I will leave you to it"I think you mixed me up with someone else. All I did here was ask for some clarification on your point. I don't expect you to answer, it's up to you. | |||
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"One of the greatest politicians of all times and driven by success . Achieving an 80 seat majority in the 2019 election was a stunning achievement and a true reflection of what the electorate thought of him. During lockdown he put in place very generous support schemes to help many people. His management of Covid was an outstanding success story and we were world leaders in the vaccine roll out . Sadly with the benefit of hindsight it would appear that lockdown only saved approx one thousand lives . How many people have died since due to late diagnosis because of lockdown . ? Lockdown fanatics have a lot to answer for . I was driving around and having to keep a letter on me to show reasons for travel. He took a lead in the Western world taking tough action against Russia . Liz Truss was a worthy successor and had a plan to bring the economy back on track. After a few months or a year we would all have benefitted from her policies. Everyone would have been a winner. Sadly other MPs were too impatient and an MP who betrayed Boris became pm . Some people have no sense of shame . It may be bye bye Boris for now but his talent will be recognised throughout the world , not just the UK. One of the greatest politicians of this century . However need to stick together and ensure that the Conseratives win the next election . The thought of Kier Starmer or Angela Rayner as pm make me feel ill. It is onwards and upwards for now . The only votes that matter are those that are cast on the day of the election . The Conservtives will be back in power for another term . Boris has left a lasting legacy and one to be proud of . A true vote winner . " Woohoo! I was only saying how much I missed your posts earlier! | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago."But that was still only SOME Labour voters not Labour voters per se. So it is objectively incorrect. | |||
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"One of the greatest politicians of all times and driven by success . Achieving an 80 seat majority in the 2019 election was a stunning achievement and a true reflection of what the electorate thought of him. During lockdown he put in place very generous support schemes to help many people. His management of Covid was an outstanding success story and we were world leaders in the vaccine roll out . Sadly with the benefit of hindsight it would appear that lockdown only saved approx one thousand lives . How many people have died since due to late diagnosis because of lockdown . ? Lockdown fanatics have a lot to answer for . I was driving around and having to keep a letter on me to show reasons for travel. He took a lead in the Western world taking tough action against Russia . Liz Truss was a worthy successor and had a plan to bring the economy back on track. After a few months or a year we would all have benefitted from her policies. Everyone would have been a winner. Sadly other MPs were too impatient and an MP who betrayed Boris became pm . Some people have no sense of shame . It may be bye bye Boris for now but his talent will be recognised throughout the world , not just the UK. One of the greatest politicians of this century . However need to stick together and ensure that the Conseratives win the next election . The thought of Kier Starmer or Angela Rayner as pm make me feel ill. It is onwards and upwards for now . The only votes that matter are those that are cast on the day of the election . The Conservtives will be back in power for another term . Boris has left a lasting legacy and one to be proud of . A true vote winner . " Pat’s back!!!!!!!!!!!! All been a bit serious around here lately with full on bickering. Be good to get some proper comedy gold! | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
He may still come back on tbe PM trail.
I'd watch this space.
Johnson loves nothing more than money. Particularly spending money.
He’ll be out of politics for good now (and good riddance), and he’ll earn huge money in the outside world.
Both his resignation speeches suggest he isn't."Since when has a Johnson speech meant anything? | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
But that was still only SOME Labour voters not Labour voters per se. So it is objectively incorrect."Ah, I see… but we can agree millions of labour voters voted Tory and specifically to put Johnson at the helm. We should also be able to agree that the landslide was so large it gave Johnson and the Tory party a free ticket through parliament. And here we are, today you will not find many labour voters who voted Tory that will hold their hands up to it , and now many of those labour voters are very upset about the horrible Johnson and take no accountability for putting him there. | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
But that was still only SOME Labour voters not Labour voters per se. So it is objectively incorrect.
Ah, I see… but we can agree millions of labour voters voted Tory and specifically to put Johnson at the helm.
We should also be able to agree that the landslide was so large it gave Johnson and the Tory party a free ticket through parliament.
And here we are, today you will not find many labour voters who voted Tory that will hold their hands up to it , and now many of those labour voters are very upset about the horrible Johnson and take no accountability for putting him there.
"Yep the Red Wall Tory voting ex Labour voters should indeed be ashamed for what they enabled. They should also own it and learn from it. | |||
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"The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged" Nonsense. The EU and its predecessors is an overwhelmingly good thing. It's a peace project. It stands for democratic values. It reduces bureaucracy. It's the civilising effort of a group of countries governing relations between themselves according to a rule of law. Unfortunately there's been 40-odd years of unfair and misleading stories in the papers - some of which came from former MP and PM Johnson. Then there were two mendacious campaigns ("dishonesty on an industrial scale") that both broke electoral law. Yes, campaigners to stay in the EU also got fined, but not to the same extent. All the warnings, on citizens' rights, and on Northern Ireland in particular, were ignored or dismissed by anti-EU people. Where are their claims now? More global power? No, the UK is isolated and weaker. The loss of the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority are just two examples. All of Continental Europe is weaker too because of the loss of the UK. Less bureaucracy? No, there's more costs and more restrictions on residence rights, customs, rules of origin... Duplication of regulation, anyone? The treatment of people from the rest of Europe in the UK has been an abomination. Apart from those who qualify under Windrush, the government won't give them a card. It's an online-only scheme. You don't get anything that you can put on the table. The government won't recognise the ID cards issued free to French citizens by France. The government is now insisting on costly passports instead. I met a young Irish man recently. He told me that the young Brits working around the Continent are now "all experts on visas". Their futures are handicapped compared to their peers in Ireland or even Estonia. On Thursday I met a man who runs a vineyard in Bucks. In how many ways have May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak it more difficult for his business? | |||
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"The most successful conservative MP to be supported by labour voters has stepped down. Well done red wall
If you tell people what they want to hear, don’t be surprised when some time down the line those same people feel somewhat miffed when they realise that they have been lied to purely for your own self advancement.
The fact still remains with the support of Labour voters, Johnson became the PM.
Yeah but they weren't real Labour voters because they were all 'thick as mince', and we know real labour voters tend to be quite smart.
Given the Brexit turnaround/regret now being polled in those red-wall seats…..
Far to late! Damage is done thanks to the red wall.
Labour voters created this mess and should hang their heads in shame, but instead they conveniently forget they put this government in charge and rant with faux anger over their own decisions.
Hmmm that is quite a deflection and is objectively inaccurate. I think what you meant to say is...
Johnson won the election and “created this mess” because:
1. SOME former Labour voters shifted their allegiance to support Johnson to get brexit done.
2. ALL Tory voters wanted a Johnson Govt for a variety of reasons.
No, I really didn’t mean to say that at all.
I stand by what I said, the red wall wanted to leave the EU so badly that they voted for Johnson to make that happen. Scorching the opposition and giving the tories a landslide victory so big that no matter what they wanted to push through parliament it would pass without a threat.
Millions of Labour voters threw their values out of the window to secure a brexit that promised taking back control of our borders and now they complain and mainly deny they voted the way they did, a bit late now, the horse bolted years ago.
But that was still only SOME Labour voters not Labour voters per se. So it is objectively incorrect.
Ah, I see… but we can agree millions of labour voters voted Tory and specifically to put Johnson at the helm.
We should also be able to agree that the landslide was so large it gave Johnson and the Tory party a free ticket through parliament.
And here we are, today you will not find many labour voters who voted Tory that will hold their hands up to it , and now many of those labour voters are very upset about the horrible Johnson and take no accountability for putting him there.
Yep the Red Wall Tory voting ex Labour voters should indeed be ashamed for what they enabled. They should also own it and learn from it."Seeing previous threads in the past, the truth was Boris was a means to an end. I don’t think many people in the north were particularly enamoured with the guy. After the self inflicted wound of Brexit a line had to drawn under the affair. It was already written that this useful idiot wouldn’t last for a full term. Those people didn’t expect that the tories would implode spectacularly. Probably this was sweet revenge for tory cuckoos getting Labour membership’s and voting for Corbyn in as leader. Do unto others as they do unto you. As a result this government is sinking faster than the titanic. Which tory MP’s are going to be like rose? Clinging on to there seat like it is wooden door? Which tory MP is going to be like jack frozen and cold sinking into the abyss of the Atlantic Ocean? So with that in mind let another summer of tory chaos begin in earnest. | |||
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"The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged Nonsense. The EU and its predecessors is an overwhelmingly good thing. It's a peace project. It stands for democratic values. It reduces bureaucracy. It's the civilising effort of a group of countries governing relations between themselves according to a rule of law. Unfortunately there's been 40-odd years of unfair and misleading stories in the papers - some of which came from former MP and PM Johnson. Then there were two mendacious campaigns ("dishonesty on an industrial scale") that both broke electoral law. Yes, campaigners to stay in the EU also got fined, but not to the same extent. All the warnings, on citizens' rights, and on Northern Ireland in particular, were ignored or dismissed by anti-EU people. Where are their claims now? More global power? No, the UK is isolated and weaker. The loss of the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority are just two examples. All of Continental Europe is weaker too because of the loss of the UK. Less bureaucracy? No, there's more costs and more restrictions on residence rights, customs, rules of origin... Duplication of regulation, anyone? The treatment of people from the rest of Europe in the UK has been an abomination. Apart from those who qualify under Windrush, the government won't give them a card. It's an online-only scheme. You don't get anything that you can put on the table. The government won't recognise the ID cards issued free to French citizens by France. The government is now insisting on costly passports instead. I met a young Irish man recently. He told me that the young Brits working around the Continent are now "all experts on visas". Their futures are handicapped compared to their peers in Ireland or even Estonia. On Thursday I met a man who runs a vineyard in Bucks. In how many ways have May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak it more difficult for his business?" If the EU was as you describe, membership would be a no-brainer. But it isn't. The EU grew by stealth from a trade bloc into a single-entity superstate with it's own president, parliament, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors, an anthem, a flag. A (small) majority of Brits were uncomfortable with surrendering sovereignty to Brussels. Time will tell if they were right, but you can't judge the issue on having to apply for a visa or queuing 10 minutes to get your passport stamped. | |||
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"The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged Nonsense. The EU and its predecessors is an overwhelmingly good thing. It's a peace project. It stands for democratic values. It reduces bureaucracy. It's the civilising effort of a group of countries governing relations between themselves according to a rule of law. Unfortunately there's been 40-odd years of unfair and misleading stories in the papers - some of which came from former MP and PM Johnson. Then there were two mendacious campaigns ("dishonesty on an industrial scale") that both broke electoral law. Yes, campaigners to stay in the EU also got fined, but not to the same extent. All the warnings, on citizens' rights, and on Northern Ireland in particular, were ignored or dismissed by anti-EU people. Where are their claims now? More global power? No, the UK is isolated and weaker. The loss of the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority are just two examples. All of Continental Europe is weaker too because of the loss of the UK. Less bureaucracy? No, there's more costs and more restrictions on residence rights, customs, rules of origin... Duplication of regulation, anyone? The treatment of people from the rest of Europe in the UK has been an abomination. Apart from those who qualify under Windrush, the government won't give them a card. It's an online-only scheme. You don't get anything that you can put on the table. The government won't recognise the ID cards issued free to French citizens by France. The government is now insisting on costly passports instead. I met a young Irish man recently. He told me that the young Brits working around the Continent are now "all experts on visas". Their futures are handicapped compared to their peers in Ireland or even Estonia. On Thursday I met a man who runs a vineyard in Bucks. In how many ways have May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak it more difficult for his business? If the EU was as you describe, membership would be a no-brainer. But it isn't. The EU grew by stealth from a trade bloc into a single-entity superstate with it's own president, parliament, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors, an anthem, a flag. A (small) majority of Brits were uncomfortable with surrendering sovereignty to Brussels. Time will tell if they were right, but you can't judge the issue on having to apply for a visa or queuing 10 minutes to get your passport stamped." Membership is a no brainer. But as you pointed out the right wing media managed to convince people to vote against their own interests because they believed some nonsense or other. 9% of Brits still think it was a good idea. Shows the power that certain sections of the media have over people. | |||
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"The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged Nonsense. The EU and its predecessors is an overwhelmingly good thing. It's a peace project. It stands for democratic values. It reduces bureaucracy. It's the civilising effort of a group of countries governing relations between themselves according to a rule of law. Unfortunately there's been 40-odd years of unfair and misleading stories in the papers - some of which came from former MP and PM Johnson. Then there were two mendacious campaigns ("dishonesty on an industrial scale") that both broke electoral law. Yes, campaigners to stay in the EU also got fined, but not to the same extent. All the warnings, on citizens' rights, and on Northern Ireland in particular, were ignored or dismissed by anti-EU people. Where are their claims now? More global power? No, the UK is isolated and weaker. The loss of the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority are just two examples. All of Continental Europe is weaker too because of the loss of the UK. Less bureaucracy? No, there's more costs and more restrictions on residence rights, customs, rules of origin... Duplication of regulation, anyone? The treatment of people from the rest of Europe in the UK has been an abomination. Apart from those who qualify under Windrush, the government won't give them a card. It's an online-only scheme. You don't get anything that you can put on the table. The government won't recognise the ID cards issued free to French citizens by France. The government is now insisting on costly passports instead. I met a young Irish man recently. He told me that the young Brits working around the Continent are now "all experts on visas". Their futures are handicapped compared to their peers in Ireland or even Estonia. On Thursday I met a man who runs a vineyard in Bucks. In how many ways have May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak it more difficult for his business? If the EU was as you describe, membership would be a no-brainer. But it isn't. The EU grew by stealth from a trade bloc into a single-entity superstate with it's own president, parliament, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors, an anthem, a flag. A (small) majority of Brits were uncomfortable with surrendering sovereignty to Brussels. Time will tell if they were right, but you can't judge the issue on having to apply for a visa or queuing 10 minutes to get your passport stamped." The EEC and later EU was never simply a trading bloc. It was said at the time (early 70’s) that it was about ever closer ties within Europe. The sovereignty argument was always nonsense. There are no nations who are truly independent, except maybe North Korea. It’s hokum. And time will tell? It already has. Brexit has failed by the metrics set out by brexiters themselves. | |||
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"That's another by election.. O dear, and people thought he would come back as PM
Back by Christmas ….
If he can make money from it he will. But I suspect he will retire to a lucrative after dinner touring circuit and highly paid advisory roles. Like Blair."Does he still claim the lifetime payments the old PM’s get £180,000 a year or something like that? | |||
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"Bureaucrats trying to stop Trump standing again in the US. MP's trying to ditch a democratically elected MP via committee. Can't beat living in the Free World." ................................ Living in the free world means those in power are not beyond scrutiny and are subject to the systems put in place to provide check & balance, you do know what we call the alternative to that philosophy? | |||
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"The problem that Remoaners have is that they have become so unhinged Nonsense. The EU and its predecessors is an overwhelmingly good thing. It's a peace project. It stands for democratic values. It reduces bureaucracy. It's the civilising effort of a group of countries governing relations between themselves according to a rule of law. Unfortunately there's been 40-odd years of unfair and misleading stories in the papers - some of which came from former MP and PM Johnson. Then there were two mendacious campaigns ("dishonesty on an industrial scale") that both broke electoral law. Yes, campaigners to stay in the EU also got fined, but not to the same extent. All the warnings, on citizens' rights, and on Northern Ireland in particular, were ignored or dismissed by anti-EU people. Where are their claims now? More global power? No, the UK is isolated and weaker. The loss of the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority are just two examples. All of Continental Europe is weaker too because of the loss of the UK. Less bureaucracy? No, there's more costs and more restrictions on residence rights, customs, rules of origin... Duplication of regulation, anyone? The treatment of people from the rest of Europe in the UK has been an abomination. Apart from those who qualify under Windrush, the government won't give them a card. It's an online-only scheme. You don't get anything that you can put on the table. The government won't recognise the ID cards issued free to French citizens by France. The government is now insisting on costly passports instead. I met a young Irish man recently. He told me that the young Brits working around the Continent are now "all experts on visas". Their futures are handicapped compared to their peers in Ireland or even Estonia. On Thursday I met a man who runs a vineyard in Bucks. In how many ways have May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak it more difficult for his business? If the EU was as you describe, membership would be a no-brainer. But it isn't. The EU grew by stealth from a trade bloc into a single-entity superstate with it's own president, parliament, laws, courts, judges, overseas ambassadors, an anthem, a flag. A (small) majority of Brits were uncomfortable with surrendering sovereignty to Brussels. Time will tell if they were right, but you can't judge the issue on having to apply for a visa or queuing 10 minutes to get your passport stamped." Also, if Brits were so uncomfortable with ‘surrendering sovereignty to Brussels’, why didn’t they show it in 1992 when Major signed the Maastricht treaty? That same year took more votes in the GE than Thatcher did in ‘87 (on basically the same vote share). The truth is that Eurosceptics were always the minority, and the EU wasn’t a talking point amongst society until around 2010, and only became one because of Cameron’s insistence on putting the (non) issue to bed. | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth." Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery " was May popular then ? I mean, they literally gave you the numbers to show it's FPTP that made him a success, not a huge swing on voters. | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery " You understand FPTP, right? | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery You understand FPTP, right? " What is your point? The facts are for all to see. Is it facts you o not like or do you think I'm supporting him by mentioning the facts? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” " I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this? | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery was May popular then ? I mean, they literally gave you the numbers to show it's FPTP that made him a success, not a huge swing on voters. " He took seats from labour as per our voting system... Pretending the result would be different if we used a different voting system is not something I'm going to get into as it is simply wishful thinking. | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery " He won for 2 reasons Corbyn Brexit | |||
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"That's another by election.." Think it's 3 now. If this does not turn into a deluge of resignations and by elections, could this actually help sunak overall. I'm thinking that Labour could have used Boris in the election run up like the Tories tended to with Cornyn. Either way I don't see anything other than a Labour victory but the level of victory might change a bit | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?" that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery He won for 2 reasons Corbyn Brexit "For once we agree | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. " May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48" successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48" And their share of the popular vote was very similar, as were their total number of party votes. What’s the point you’re trying to make? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP. "That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was. The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 And their share of the popular vote was very similar, as were their total number of party votes. What’s the point you’re trying to make?" That’s another topic, we have FPTP. Out of interest do you know the % of labour voters that voted labour in 2017 that then voted conservative in 2019? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed."Based upon *telling people he’d got Brexit done* Let’s be accurate here. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 And their share of the popular vote was very similar, as were their total number of party votes. What’s the point you’re trying to make? That’s another topic, we have FPTP. Out of interest do you know the % of labour voters that voted labour in 2017 that then voted conservative in 2019? " I can’t recall, although I used to have a lot of these imprinted in my brain during my twitter days. I know that more 2017 labour voters stayed home or went LD than switched to Tory. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed."how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular. Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 And their share of the popular vote was very similar, as were their total number of party votes. What’s the point you’re trying to make? That’s another topic, we have FPTP. Out of interest do you know the % of labour voters that voted labour in 2017 that then voted conservative in 2019? I can’t recall, although I used to have a lot of these imprinted in my brain during my twitter days. I know that more 2017 labour voters stayed home or went LD than switched to Tory." YouGov have it as 28% changed their votes from Labour to Conservative in 2019 Another poll estimates 31% but either figure is a significant number. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 And their share of the popular vote was very similar, as were their total number of party votes. What’s the point you’re trying to make? That’s another topic, we have FPTP. Out of interest do you know the % of labour voters that voted labour in 2017 that then voted conservative in 2019? I can’t recall, although I used to have a lot of these imprinted in my brain during my twitter days. I know that more 2017 labour voters stayed home or went LD than switched to Tory. YouGov have it as 28% changed their votes from Labour to Conservative in 2019 Another poll estimates 31% but either figure is a significant number. " No, it was nowhere near that. 11% rings a bell, and somewhere around 19-20% stayed home or went to other parties. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure. "My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson"I take popular as meaning "people support his policies" so we are on the same page here. However that shift in voter behaviour is not as significant as is made out. However it happened where it matters (also, it may also have been from shifts in non Tory voters). | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson"It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum. Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum… | |||
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"Going off topic a bit now, but remember Johnson in late 2019 leading a minority govt. and losing parliamentary votes for fun. If a snap election hadn’t been agreed by Swinson and Corbyn, Johnson would have remained leading a dead-duck govt and gone down in history as one of the least effective PM’s in history. We also might have got a second referendum. Gifting Johnson the 2019 election was suicide for Corbyn and Swinson." That was a huge mistake by Corbyn and gifted that extension. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…"I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see . My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future. It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the € | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” " . Unless you are suggesting that the election results were falsified or votes miscounted the result was a true reflection of his popularity. An 80 seat majority was a stunning achievement and made many people accept reality. One of the greatest politicians of all time. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” . Unless you are suggesting that the election results were falsified or votes miscounted the result was a true reflection of his popularity. An 80 seat majority was a stunning achievement and made many people accept reality. One of the greatest politicians of all time. " Pats back. Anyway, Alexander failed , that is why he is no longer the PM or an MP | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” . Unless you are suggesting that the election results were falsified or votes miscounted the result was a true reflection of his popularity. An 80 seat majority was a stunning achievement and made many people accept reality. One of the greatest politicians of all time. " It seems that Johnson is on fabs after all…. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €"The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks. Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests). Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten."I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful. "What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected). Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights? What positivity should we bring to the party? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?"Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on"So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’ Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on"We’ll always move forwards. I’m looking to see Starmer’s labour move towards an EFTA type arrangement whilst in power - that’ll undo some of the Brexit damage. Full membership may never come in my lifetime, but I hope that Johnson, Farage et al get to see us rejoin the single market at least. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on
So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’
Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account? "We get 'scammed' every single day by our politicians. This is where this argument falls down because you're not up in arma about anything else. I posted about Labour yesterday or the day before and your argument was 'what about the Tories' If you're bothered by politicians 'scamming' us then you've got a long way to go to prove that. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on
So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’
Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account?
We get 'scammed' every single day by our politicians. This is where this argument falls down because you're not up in arma about anything else.
I posted about Labour yesterday or the day before and your argument was 'what about the Tories'
If you're bothered by politicians 'scamming' us then you've got a long way to go to prove that."No, my argument was that we should hold all our elected officials to the same high standard. Subtle difference, but I’m unsurprised that you got it wrong. | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery was May popular then ? I mean, they literally gave you the numbers to show it's FPTP that made him a success, not a huge swing on voters. He took seats from labour as per our voting system... Pretending the result would be different if we used a different voting system is not something I'm going to get into as it is simply wishful thinking. " Labour lost about 2.5m votes likely fromt he red wall( can't be arsed digging in) when corbyn declared his stance. Bojo wa specular among red wallers( still await that apparent poll on their brexit regret) Remainer Conservatives either didn't vote( turnout dropped) or went lib dem. The numbers are there though he increased the popular vote even with about 400k lower turnout | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on
So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’
Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account?
We get 'scammed' every single day by our politicians. This is where this argument falls down because you're not up in arma about anything else.
I posted about Labour yesterday or the day before and your argument was 'what about the Tories'
If you're bothered by politicians 'scamming' us then you've got a long way to go to prove that.
No, my argument was that we should hold all our elected officials to the same high standard. Subtle difference, but I’m unsurprised that you got it wrong. "Getting personal again? Just can't help yourself, can you? I definitely haven't got it wrong. Where are you shouting about Labour as much as you shout about Conservatives? | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s “landslide”? 2017 Theresa May 42.4% 13,636,624 2019 Boris Johnson 43.6% 13,966,451 Johnson added just 1.2% or 329,767 extra votes It was WHERE he gained votes + FPTP that gave him an 80 seat “landslide”. He wasn’t massively more popular. That’s a myth. Labour lost 48 seats in 2019. Not sure why you added he wasn't popular, it was clear why he won and it wasn't for his looks and buffoonery was May popular then ? I mean, they literally gave you the numbers to show it's FPTP that made him a success, not a huge swing on voters. He took seats from labour as per our voting system... Pretending the result would be different if we used a different voting system is not something I'm going to get into as it is simply wishful thinking. Labour lost about 2.5m votes likely fromt he red wall( can't be arsed digging in) when corbyn declared his stance. Bojo wa specular among red wallers( still await that apparent poll on their brexit regret) Remainer Conservatives either didn't vote( turnout dropped) or went lib dem. The numbers are there though he increased the popular vote even with about 400k lower turnout" And now he isn’t even an MP, | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €"To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened."For me, the 'overturning of the vote' was the sole reason Corbyn lost and Boris won. It's a shame really because if they had concentrated on 'we're leaving, what would you like it to look like' Labour would have won that vote in 2019. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on
So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’
Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account?
We get 'scammed' every single day by our politicians. This is where this argument falls down because you're not up in arma about anything else.
I posted about Labour yesterday or the day before and your argument was 'what about the Tories'
If you're bothered by politicians 'scamming' us then you've got a long way to go to prove that.
No, my argument was that we should hold all our elected officials to the same high standard. Subtle difference, but I’m unsurprised that you got it wrong.
Getting personal again? Just can't help yourself, can you?
I definitely haven't got it wrong.
Where are you shouting about Labour as much as you shout about Conservatives?
"Nothing personal in my comment, strange that you’ve taken it that way. I based my opinion on your history of posting, including your objection to going OT yesterday but willingness to do so today. Shall we ask again how you feel about François or Rosindell? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on
So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’
Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account?
We get 'scammed' every single day by our politicians. This is where this argument falls down because you're not up in arma about anything else.
I posted about Labour yesterday or the day before and your argument was 'what about the Tories'
If you're bothered by politicians 'scamming' us then you've got a long way to go to prove that.
No, my argument was that we should hold all our elected officials to the same high standard. Subtle difference, but I’m unsurprised that you got it wrong.
Getting personal again? Just can't help yourself, can you?
I definitely haven't got it wrong.
Where are you shouting about Labour as much as you shout about Conservatives?
Nothing personal in my comment, strange that you’ve taken it that way.
I based my opinion on your history of posting, including your objection to going OT yesterday but willingness to do so today.
Shall we ask again how you feel about François or Rosindell? "'I'm unsurprised you got it wrong' isn't personal? I see how you roll. Am I going off topic? I mean we're on a threadbtalking about Brexit being a scam and I've referenced you choosing your scams always towards one side. Is that off topic? Just admit that you're wholly biased, I don't have an issue with that but don't claim you're against something when you're only actually against it when it suits you. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
The hardcore eurosceptics In the U.K. amount to around a tenth of the electorate, traditionally. It’s interesting that 9% apparently think Brexit is going well - because that’ll be those folks.
Brexit was voted for by around 32-33% of the electorate, and 25% of the population. It wasn’t some mass movement that Farage and his ilk like to make it out to be. And the protect Brexit marches and movements (like Farage’s walk) only gained a few hundred people at most (unlike the second referendum marches which were smaller only than the iraq war protests).
Had we had a second referendum (as lauded by Rees-Mogg and Farage at separate times) I don’t think there’d have been a mass uprising. At most, noisy grumbles from one in ten.
I'm not sure that is correct, a lot of people were suffering from brexit fatigue at the time, the will we, should we have a second referendum only served to harden the stance of those thought their vote was going to be discarded, in a far from democratic way. I voted to remain but after a short while accepted the vote went the way of the majority and decided to move on. We now have a vocal number of people who can't accept the majority vote and that to me is actually worse than leaving the EU, they bring so much negativity it becomes painful.
What else should they bring? Everything promised by the brexiters has turned out to be a lie (as expected).
Should remainers rejoice that we left the EU based upon proven lies? Should we celebrate that we’re all worse off and have fewer rights?
What positivity should we bring to the party?
Accept we are where we are, try and look forward rather than backwards, try and get on
So if you got scammed out of something, you’d simply wake up the next day and go ‘ah well, onwards and upwards’
Or would you want to see the perpetrator held to account?
We get 'scammed' every single day by our politicians. This is where this argument falls down because you're not up in arma about anything else.
I posted about Labour yesterday or the day before and your argument was 'what about the Tories'
If you're bothered by politicians 'scamming' us then you've got a long way to go to prove that.
No, my argument was that we should hold all our elected officials to the same high standard. Subtle difference, but I’m unsurprised that you got it wrong.
Getting personal again? Just can't help yourself, can you?
I definitely haven't got it wrong.
Where are you shouting about Labour as much as you shout about Conservatives?
Nothing personal in my comment, strange that you’ve taken it that way.
I based my opinion on your history of posting, including your objection to going OT yesterday but willingness to do so today.
Shall we ask again how you feel about François or Rosindell?
'I'm unsurprised you got it wrong' isn't personal? I see how you roll.
Am I going off topic? I mean we're on a threadbtalking about Brexit being a scam and I've referenced you choosing your scams always towards one side. Is that off topic?
Just admit that you're wholly biased, I don't have an issue with that but don't claim you're against something when you're only actually against it when it suits you."No. I’m all for elected officials being held to the same high standards regardless of the rosette they wear. I just wish more people were. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened.
For me, the 'overturning of the vote' was the sole reason Corbyn lost and Boris won.
It's a shame really because if they had concentrated on 'we're leaving, what would you like it to look like' Labour would have won that vote in 2019."Yep, wanting remain back on the ballot paper was the error and must have been good news to boris. We will obviously never know what corbyn would have done if elected but it's in the past. They had then to choose do they live in the past or learn and move on. | |||
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"“All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure”" After less than 3 years? | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened.
For me, the 'overturning of the vote' was the sole reason Corbyn lost and Boris won.
It's a shame really because if they had concentrated on 'we're leaving, what would you like it to look like' Labour would have won that vote in 2019.
Yep, wanting remain back on the ballot paper was the error and must have been good news to boris. We will obviously never know what corbyn would have done if elected but it's in the past. They had then to choose do they live in the past or learn and move on. "Labour didn’t want remain. They (officially at least) wanted their version of Brexit (which would undoubtedly have been better than the Hard Brexit we got) | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened.
For me, the 'overturning of the vote' was the sole reason Corbyn lost and Boris won.
It's a shame really because if they had concentrated on 'we're leaving, what would you like it to look like' Labour would have won that vote in 2019.
Yep, wanting remain back on the ballot paper was the error and must have been good news to boris. We will obviously never know what corbyn would have done if elected but it's in the past. They had then to choose do they live in the past or learn and move on.
Labour didn’t want remain. They (officially at least) wanted their version of Brexit (which would undoubtedly have been better than the Hard Brexit we got)"A Labour government will hold, around June 2020, a referendum which will give voters the choice between Labour’s withdrawal agreement or the option to Remain in the EU. This is the reason they lost, that came from Corbyn himself. So whilst he said he would uphold the will of the people. He was also going to include remaining in the second referendum. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened.
For me, the 'overturning of the vote' was the sole reason Corbyn lost and Boris won.
It's a shame really because if they had concentrated on 'we're leaving, what would you like it to look like' Labour would have won that vote in 2019.
Yep, wanting remain back on the ballot paper was the error and must have been good news to boris. We will obviously never know what corbyn would have done if elected but it's in the past. They had then to choose do they live in the past or learn and move on.
Labour didn’t want remain. They (officially at least) wanted their version of Brexit (which would undoubtedly have been better than the Hard Brexit we got)
A Labour government will hold, around June 2020, a referendum which will give voters the choice between Labour’s withdrawal agreement or the option to Remain in the EU.
This is the reason they lost, that came from Corbyn himself. So whilst he said he would uphold the will of the people. He was also going to include remaining in the second referendum.
"Corbyn also never stated the reason they lost being…well, Corbyn (as revealed in post-election polling). The fact remains that labours official stance was to leave the EU with their negotiated deal. | |||
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"Johnson's “popularity” was a manufactured myth that suited certain groups and behind the scenes “power players” I never said it was or it wasn't, where are you going with this?that he wasn't popular. (if you go buy the popular vote) He was successful no doubt. But that is more a function of our political system than him being way more popular than May (say). He and his team were fantastic at using the system to their advantage. Imo one can't use popular and successful interchangabky under FPTP. It's a weak correlation at best. May lost 17 seats, Johnson gained 48 successful not disagreeing.
I don't view seats as being a good way of measuring popularity. Not under FPTP.
That’s a completely different argument. They know the rules and both okay by them, the vote stands as it was.
The fact he won and took a landslide based on getting brexit done is well known, so I’m struggling to see why the comparisons to him being popular or not is even being discussed.how would you define popular? My definition is how many people voted for him and so is independent of the voting system. If we have different definitions then we aren't ever going to agree! Indeed, we probably need a global definition given his supporters tend to hold him up as being super popular.
Given the term popular vote, I'm proposing vote share is a good measure.
My thoughts are he wasn’t winning votes because he was a loved individual, he won his position through voter fear of Brexit being reversed by any other than Johnson
It’s true that a sizeable number of voters were scared of a Brexit ‘betrayal’, in 2019 although polling by that point was showing a majority in favour of a second referendum.
Maybe with hindsight we should have pressed ahead with the second referendum…
I honestly believe if a second referendum was allowed we would have had the worst civil unrest this country had ever see .
My opinion is we make the most of what was dealt us and set out a path for returning for the future.
It will happen because the younger generations wanted to stay in the EU. When this old guard have gone, the way back in can be considered more clearly and with people who actually want it to work, and with the €
To me the second referendum idea made some sense but only if it was to decide how we left. The question of should we leave had been answered and if I recall correctly those calling for the second referendum wanted overturning the first vote as an option. To me that's the reason why it never happened.
For me, the 'overturning of the vote' was the sole reason Corbyn lost and Boris won.
It's a shame really because if they had concentrated on 'we're leaving, what would you like it to look like' Labour would have won that vote in 2019.
Yep, wanting remain back on the ballot paper was the error and must have been good news to boris. We will obviously never know what corbyn would have done if elected but it's in the past. They had then to choose do they live in the past or learn and move on.
Labour didn’t want remain. They (officially at least) wanted their version of Brexit (which would undoubtedly have been better than the Hard Brexit we got)
A Labour government will hold, around June 2020, a referendum which will give voters the choice between Labour’s withdrawal agreement or the option to Remain in the EU.
This is the reason they lost, that came from Corbyn himself. So whilst he said he would uphold the will of the people. He was also going to include remaining in the second referendum.
Corbyn also never stated the reason they lost being…well, Corbyn (as revealed in post-election polling).
The fact remains that labours official stance was to leave the EU with their negotiated deal. "Their official stance was also to ask again if we wanted to leave or not. I realise my punctuation was in the wrong place. That's why I think they lost, not Corbyns thoughts. | |||
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