FabSwingers.com forum: Local Election Results

By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

It's the usual pattern of mid-term by elections and local elections. The incumbent party get a hammering, the Lib Dems, Greens look good. But come the GE, voters apply different criteria. It will be much closer, too close to call at this stage. Comes down to how Rishi performs between now and then probably.

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By *deepdiveMan
over a year ago

France / Birmingham

The Greens also have done a lot better than they probably expected and Labour have obviously had an excellent result.

It has been interesting to see how the conservative councillors have tried to distance themselves from the main party by emphasising that they are 'Local' but those who voted did so with their feet.

The Conservatives will brush it off as a mid term result which, although not meaningless, does not represent what could happen in a GE.

They would be partially correct in doing so and we are a good 18 months away from that happening.

Let's see what they do to swing things to their side of the political spectrum.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think."

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

These three parties will unite internally having sensed such success whereas the Conservatives will start further infighting. That's already started with the quote amazing narrative that the return of Johnson would make the party strong again.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

I don't believe that the local elections will not be representative of the national ones. Even if there is some economic improvement the other aspects of Government policy have looked more extreme, and focused inward at holding the right wing of the party to the exclusion of all others internally and externally...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Labour won by an absolute landslide here in Oldham. Thank God!

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"It's the usual pattern of mid-term by elections and local elections. The incumbent party get a hammering, the Lib Dems, Greens look good. But come the GE, voters apply different criteria. It will be much closer, too close to call at this stage. Comes down to how Rishi performs between now and then probably."

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

I appreciate they're now the largest party in terms of councillors but for me that was expected hence I see the Lib Dems as bigger winners. Honestly think they've made great strides in terms of numbers gained

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

I hope you are right, I would like a Lib Dem, Labour , Green coalition in 2024

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy."

Look, mid-term 'protest' votes have been a feature of UK politics for decades, so it is 'usual'. If you are using the results as a predictor of the GE you'll be disappointed. The gap will close. As Harold Wilson said "A week is a long time in politics" and a year is an eternity. We'll see.

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD

Well the people who voted in Labour councils can look forward to higher than average concil tax rises next year and even the possibility of their Labour Council going bust.

If they are also unfortunate to have a Labour Mayor like us in London you can look forward to having to pay them over the top increases as well.!

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

I hope you are right, I would like a Lib Dem, Labour , Green coalition in 2024

Why would you want that?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

I expect a very tight GE, if it falls into a coalition of labour and the lib dems we will in my opinion be in a worse position than we are now. If labour can't win the GE without a convincing win I would prefer no change.

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

I hope you are right, I would like a Lib Dem, Labour , Green coalition in 2024

Why would you want that?"

Basically because he is unable to ever answer a question himself and it appeals to him to have a government that would be unable to answer any questions and one which will just go round in circles.!

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Will make 0 difference in the part of the world where I live.

I straddle the border between a Labour local council in Northants and Bucks local council. Roads look like they have been subject to an air strike. We all have to put out 15 bins a week. The only good bit is getting a doctors appointment same day on the conservative side and they kept the old people’s centre open. Meanwhile on the Labour side you can get your kid to a school without an hours commute.

I wonder if you can ever come with a way of keeping politics out of local councils and just having people who want to stand for the community and work for a common goal.

I sound like a filthy commie!

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD

"Will make 0 difference in the part of the world where I live.

I wonder if you can ever come with a way of keeping politics out of local councils and just having people who want to stand for the community and work for a common goal.

I sound like a filthy commie!

A few years back we voted in 3 residents association councillors. Unfortunately the Labour Council didn't like that. Got two of them to convert to Labour and the next election bombarded our ward to make sure Labour got all 3 councillors.

Not long after that they split our ward in half and added them to Labour wards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

I hope you are right, I would like a Lib Dem, Labour , Green coalition in 2024

Why would you want that?"

I vote for the Lib Dem’s, and I like the greens ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

I hope you are right, I would like a Lib Dem, Labour , Green coalition in 2024

Why would you want that?

Basically because he is unable to ever answer a question himself and it appeals to him to have a government that would be unable to answer any questions and one which will just go round in circles.!"

Look at the mess an 80 seat majority Tory have done to the county, anything will be an improvement, thankfully it won’t be long before they are booted out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true."

Wait and watch, there are already rumblings, 1,000 ex councillors who will be pissed off, just remember, the Tory members never wanted Sunak. He is vulnerable and weak, not necessarily because of labour, but within his own party , the tories are ruthless

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

The Labour party also made huge gains. They have the largest number of councillors in England. Also gains in important areas.

The LibDems have returned to their previous local government strength and the Green party has become a significant factor.

The voting process has previously always led to binary choices.

Perhaps this is where that finally changes?

The Conservative party actively disliked but ambivalence towards the Labour.

The LibDems ahead of the curve again and some form of proportional representation or alternative vote coming in the future if Labour falls just short.

These 3 parties will have to unite if Labour fall short, and they may.

Not necessarily unite, but some form of coalition is a better representation of society than we have now.

Perhaps biggest win is by the LibDems.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

“Look, I know everything is shit and not only do you all feel poorer than you did 13 years ago, but also every single public service is in a worse state than it was 13 years ago. I know it was our fault that all of this happened, but you really can only trust us and no-one else to fix the country.” Rishi.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term. "

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

Right about Boris

Come on, not even you can claim that.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that."

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

Where is Boris now? I says from the start he would be a disaster and would leave in disgrace

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think. "

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

Where is Boris now? I says from the start he would be a disaster and would leave in disgrace

He’s currently at the coronation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

Where is Boris now? I says from the start he would be a disaster and would leave in disgrace

He’s currently at the coronation.

As an ex PM,

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time , "

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

Where is Boris now? I says from the start he would be a disaster and would leave in disgrace

He’s currently at the coronation.

As an ex PM,

He didn’t go by the timescale you so blithely hung onto though did he. Which is my point.

I think Rishi will stay onto the next election.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

Where is Boris now? I says from the start he would be a disaster and would leave in disgrace

He’s currently at the coronation.

As an ex PM,

He didn’t go by the timescale you so blithely hung onto though did he. Which is my point.

I think Rishi will stay onto the next election."

Rishi will be there at the next election. He is the only chance the Tories have, and that's a slim one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?"

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

Given your previous predictions around Boris I now worry Sunak will make another term.

I was right about Boris

I was right about Truss

Sunak will survive (just) until the next election, but he is just a puppet PM, he will spend too much time appeasing his party rather than running the country . Weak

You were wrong about Boris now matter how many times you spin the whole Xmas thing.

As for Truss anyone could have seen the writing on that wall.

Where is Boris now? I says from the start he would be a disaster and would leave in disgrace

He’s currently at the coronation.

As an ex PM,

He didn’t go by the timescale you so blithely hung onto though did he. Which is my point.

I think Rishi will stay onto the next election."

He still went, as did truss , yes Rishi will have to stay, still doesn’t disguise the fact he is there by default ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak."

Thrashed at the next GE, swiftly removed, never seen in front line politics again

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak.

Thrashed at the next GE, swiftly removed, never seen in front line politics again

That's not a prediction...

That's standard for losing leaders

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak.

Thrashed at the next GE, swiftly removed, never seen in front line politics again

That's not a prediction...

That's standard for losing leaders

Corbyn didn’t leave, don’t get me wrong, I quite like Sunak, but he is surrounded by shite and snakes and he isn’t strong enough to deal with them, let’s see how he handles Boris after the results of the investigation are announced,

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak.

Thrashed at the next GE, swiftly removed, never seen in front line politics again

That's not a prediction...

That's standard for losing leaders

Corbyn resigned after losing. That's generally what happens.

He is surrounded by snakes, that's politics. I thunk he's more than strong enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak.

Thrashed at the next GE, swiftly removed, never seen in front line politics again

That's not a prediction...

That's standard for losing leaders

Corbyn resigned after losing. That's generally what happens.

He is surrounded by snakes, that's politics. I thunk he's more than strong enough. "

Not after his first defeat, let’s see how he handles Boris,

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

It's not a "usual" pattern.

It's an very large one, also following previous local election and bi-election losses.

Sunak, on his own, may be acceptable for many, but the Government as a whole and the infighting that will follow these losses will not make them look like a good option.

Even an immediate turn in the economy will not move people from the deep negatives of now to positive. Unlikely to even feel like they have returned to where they were.

There won't be an immediate turn in the economy.

Agreed, anyone with an ounce of understanding knows this and there should be no real shock in the results of the locals.

Ha, the tories were thrashed, the knives will be out , Sunak is on rocky ground, he looks weak ,

The Tories were thrashed, expectedly.

The rest is just your hope, not necessarily true.

We will wait and see.. I think he's much more resilient than you think.

Those 1000 ex-councillors should've done better for their constituents, this is part of the issue, they think 'we can just blame government', it doesn't work like that.

Look what happened to Thatcher, May, Boris and Truss, the tories will turn on him, he was never the leader they wanted , he got elected by default (btw, I think he is far superior to Boris and Truss)

We shall see. I still think he's much more resilient than you think.

It is irrelevant how ‘resilient ‘ he is, he is just n borrowed time ,

They're all on borrowed time..

Are you sure you know how politics works?

Yep, Sunak is weak, if he had been made leader instead of truss he would be in a better situation, unfortunately for him he wasn’t

Go on then....

I want your prediction for Sunak.

Thrashed at the next GE, swiftly removed, never seen in front line politics again

That's not a prediction...

That's standard for losing leaders

Corbyn resigned after losing. That's generally what happens.

He is surrounded by snakes, that's politics. I thunk he's more than strong enough.

Not after his first defeat, let’s see how he handles Boris,

Because 2017 was seen as a success even though Labour lost the GE.

You're still obsessed by Boris, he isn't coming back.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think."

I think it was more of a conservative loss than a gain from the other parties (although they did by default).

As others mentioned. I don't think this will be an indicator for the GE.

I understand why people are buoyed by the results, as they feel like it might bring some positive change at last. But I don't believe it will. Of course if the Tories don't win the next GE I will be eating my hat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

"
what's a bojo manifesto? I suspect that different people will read this in different ways !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd love to see a Sankey chart on the voting. I'm suprised how many seemingly jumped from Tory to libs or green ... So I'd not be surprised if labour took a greater percentage of Tory votes, but also lost a fair number to the other parties.

If true, the GE will be decided on if those ex reds come back for the nationals.

Imo the GE will be determined by how credible LD appear. They have done well depsite being fairly low key in the media. A good GE campaign and they may suprise. And that would be at the expense of lab.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

Labour needing 1000 seats is not a "fact".

A poor turnout in local elections is not a new phenomenon.

If people are not happy, any they have not been for some time judging by the last local elections and bi-elections, then the Tory vote is not coming back.

Your 0.19% improvement in GDP over 10-16 years from some remote new trade deals will not move the dial. Neither will a fall in inflation with wages already behind. It just means becoming slightly less poorer every day.

There has been zero message about wanting a BoJo manifesto. That is nothing but you wanting to see something that doesn't exist.

The only information is that the people are not happy and they don't see the Government fixing it.

They are making Brexit a great success according to you and doing wonderful work being nasty to immigrants. What more have they promised and not delivered?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I'd love to see a Sankey chart on the voting. I'm suprised how many seemingly jumped from Tory to libs or green ... So I'd not be surprised if labour took a greater percentage of Tory votes, but also lost a fair number to the other parties.

If true, the GE will be decided on if those ex reds come back for the nationals.

The internal Tory politics have them playing to the right.

The centre has found another home in the LibDems.

The Greens have taken some of the Labour party's left.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

I think it was more of a conservative loss than a gain from the other parties (although they did by default).

As others mentioned. I don't think this will be an indicator for the GE.

Both the lib dems and the greens done well. The lib dems have often been used as a protest vote but not sure if that's also true of the greens. I think in the past those that use other parties to protest often return for the GE. This time around though I think they will stay with their protest to oust the current government and hope a new government will be better

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Now that we have a lot of results in we can start to see who the winners/lovers are..

Who do you think has won/lost.

For me, the winners here are Lib Dem, great result for them I thunk.

Conservatives have been clear losers I think.

I think it was more of a conservative loss than a gain from the other parties (although they did by default).

As others mentioned. I don't think this will be an indicator for the GE.

I hope you're right. But I am pessimistic.

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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago

Reading

I checked my local election results. I did not vote.

The total people who voted for all parties were nearly two thousand. Yet there are approx ten thousand people at last count who could vote. So only 20% turn out. How vote would go in general election ?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I checked my local election results. I did not vote.

Personally I find it surprising that after the last 13 years of hapless incompetence, any Conservative labelled candidate got even a single vote.

That said, the results effectively do now de-legitimise this Conservative Government and the longer they hang on, the further damage to the country there will be and ultimately, the worse it will be for them.

They no longer have a mandate - the public has said “fuck you and your Tory bullshit.”

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"I checked my local election results. I did not vote.

Labour needing 28 seats for a majority, creating a coalition government and nothing ever being agreed.

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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago

Reading

"I checked my local election results. I did not vote.

Personally I find it surprising that after the last 13 years of hapless incompetence, any Conservative labelled candidate got even a single vote.

They no longer have a mandate - the public has said “fuck you and your Tory bullshit.”"

If checked where I live has one conservative and one labour MP. So the next general election could go same as last ? Where I have lived for all my life. Labour were voted in as MP. But in recent years . Has gone Conservative. The area has been a very large council estate area. But now most houses are owned. I will state also. Now the demographics of people living in area has changed a lot. Yes I have lived in house for forty years. So know that now some houses have been bought as buy to let. Before most were being purchased as family homes. This normally after say buying a terraced / flat as first home. House is a semi detached.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I checked my local election results. I did not vote.

Labour needing 28 seats for a majority, creating a coalition government and nothing ever being agreed."

Why can nothing ever be agreed?

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By *deepdiveMan
over a year ago

France / Birmingham

Perhaps the majority tried to vote but were turned away as their NHS photo identity was not on the voter id list...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually, where I live, the Conservatives ended up with one more seat than they went into these elections with, and won control of my most local town council for the first time ever

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Sky's electoral calculation put labour short of a majority by about 40 seats.

Eesh. They should be hitting 400 seats.

Not entirely sure hoe it's calculated but this is the problem labour have.

The tories infighting should see labour reduce them to about 100 seats. But the calcs put them at about 240

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

Labour needing 1000 seats is not a "fact".

A poor turnout in local elections is not a new phenomenon.

If people are not happy, any they have not been for some time judging by the last local elections and bi-elections, then the Tory vote is not coming back.

There has been zero message about wanting a BoJo manifesto. That is nothing but you wanting to see something that doesn't exist.

The only information is that the people are not happy and they don't see the Government fixing it.

They are making Brexit a great success according to you and doing wonderful work being nasty to immigrants. What more have they promised and not delivered?"

No it'd not a fact its a projection.

And above you will see why.

Because election tracker that calculate the GE seat pick up show labour fell short of a majority by about 40 seats.

And tonoperstw woth ease,( becausenof abstainers and opposition in yoirnown part) you need a majority of about 60.

A poor turnout in local elections Isn't a New phenomenon no. But again, it speak volumes people would rather not turn up than give labour a vote or any 1 else.

Nothing about the bojo manifesto....erm check the total councillor's elected because of the tory manifesto and how many rishi lost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let’s just put it into plain terms, the conservatives did bad.

Labour did ok, but needs to do more between here and the GE to get a convincing majority.

Lib Dem’s, are rehabilitating. They are taking Blue seats and are the alternative the tories and labour in many areas.

The greens, if they can focus on rural issues they could make more head way. But taking a blue council shows they are doing something right.

As it stands if the GE was called. It would be labour/lib dem coalition with probably green support.

But 18 months is a long time, and things could change .

The Tories could revive their fortunes. The SNP might be stable after their financial woes.

All to play for still.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Let’s just put it into plain terms, the conservatives did bad.

Labour did ok, but needs to do more between here and the GE to get a convincing majority.

Lib Dem’s, are rehabilitating. They are taking Blue seats and are the alternative the tories and labour in many areas.

The greens, if they can focus on rural issues they could make more head way. But taking a blue council shows they are doing something right.

As it stands if the GE was called. It would be labour/lib dem coalition with probably green support.

But 18 months is a long time, and things could change .

The Tories could revive their fortunes. The SNP might be stable after their financial woes.

All to play for still."

Not entirely sure how much green support would add.

Didn't ukip have more mps than them? At one point.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Let’s just put it into plain terms, the conservatives did bad.

Labour did ok, but needs to do more between here and the GE to get a convincing majority.

Lib Dem’s, are rehabilitating. They are taking Blue seats and are the alternative the tories and labour in many areas.

The greens, if they can focus on rural issues they could make more head way. But taking a blue council shows they are doing something right.

As it stands if the GE was called. It would be labour/lib dem coalition with probably green support.

But 18 months is a long time, and things could change .

The Tories could revive their fortunes. The SNP might be stable after their financial woes.

All to play for still.

Not entirely sure how much green support would add.

Didn't ukip have more mps than them? At one point.

UKIP at best had one MP elected in a bi-election and one defector.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

Labour needing 1000 seats is not a "fact".

A poor turnout in local elections is not a new phenomenon.

If people are not happy, any they have not been for some time judging by the last local elections and bi-elections, then the Tory vote is not coming back.

There has been zero message about wanting a BoJo manifesto. That is nothing but you wanting to see something that doesn't exist.

The only information is that the people are not happy and they don't see the Government fixing it.

They are making Brexit a great success according to you and doing wonderful work being nasty to immigrants. What more have they promised and not delivered?

No it'd not a fact its a projection.

And above you will see why.

Because election tracker that calculate the GE seat pick up show labour fell short of a majority by about 40 seats.

And tonoperstw woth ease,( becausenof abstainers and opposition in yoirnown part) you need a majority of about 60.

A poor turnout in local elections Isn't a New phenomenon no. But again, it speak volumes people would rather not turn up than give labour a vote or any 1 else.

Nothing about the bojo manifesto....erm check the total councillor's elected because of the tory manifesto and how many rishi lost.

So you’re blaming Sunak for the Tories terrible loses ?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Sky's electoral calculation put labour short of a majority by about 40 seats.

Eesh. They should be hitting 400 seats.

Not entirely sure hoe it's calculated but this is the problem labour have.

The tories infighting should see labour reduce them to about 100 seats. But the calcs put them at about 240

"UK elections: Labour would fall 28 short of overall majority in general election, Sky News vote share projection shows"

"Party would win 298 seats and would be the largest in parliament, taking more seats than they have held since the 2005 general election"

"Based on analysis of change in vote share across 1,500 wards Labour is the most popular party with 36%, with the Conservative share 29%, Lib Dems with 18% and others standing at 17%."

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-elections-labour-would-fall-28-short-of-overall-majority-in-general-election-sky-news-vote-share-projection-shows-12873917

Based on a uniform swing.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

Labour needing 1000 seats is not a "fact".

A poor turnout in local elections is not a new phenomenon.

If people are not happy, any they have not been for some time judging by the last local elections and bi-elections, then the Tory vote is not coming back.

There has been zero message about wanting a BoJo manifesto. That is nothing but you wanting to see something that doesn't exist.

The only information is that the people are not happy and they don't see the Government fixing it.

They are making Brexit a great success according to you and doing wonderful work being nasty to immigrants. What more have they promised and not delivered?

No it'd not a fact its a projection.

And above you will see why.

Because election tracker that calculate the GE seat pick up show labour fell short of a majority by about 40 seats.

And tonoperstw woth ease,( becausenof abstainers and opposition in yoirnown part) you need a majority of about 60.

A poor turnout in local elections Isn't a New phenomenon no. But again, it speak volumes people would rather not turn up than give labour a vote or any 1 else.

Nothing about the bojo manifesto....erm check the total councillor's elected because of the tory manifesto and how many rishi lost.

Labour predicted to be 28 seats short.

What do you believe has changed from the Conservative party's vague promises since 2019? Do you think that the electorate do not like Sunak's pledges?

1. Inflation

“halve inflation this year to ease the cost of living and give people financial security”

2. Growing the economy

“grow the economy, creating better-paid jobs and opportunity right across the country”.

3. National debt falling

“national debt is falling so that we can secure the future of public services”.

4. Falling NHS waiting lists

“NHS waiting lists will fall and people will get the care they need more quickly”.

5. Illegal migration

“We will pass new laws to stop small boats, making sure that if you come to this country illegally, you are detained and swiftly removed,” he said.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-prime-minister-government-nhs-parliament-b1050833.html

The reality is that even though the general population may think that Sunak himself is competent they do not trust or like the party and certainly not BoJo.

Do not confuse the very strange beliefs of Conservative party members and the general population. You are living a fantasy of you believe that they think that BoJo will be good for the UK or the Tories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

Labour needing 1000 seats is not a "fact".

A poor turnout in local elections is not a new phenomenon.

If people are not happy, any they have not been for some time judging by the last local elections and bi-elections, then the Tory vote is not coming back.

There has been zero message about wanting a BoJo manifesto. That is nothing but you wanting to see something that doesn't exist.

The only information is that the people are not happy and they don't see the Government fixing it.

They are making Brexit a great success according to you and doing wonderful work being nasty to immigrants. What more have they promised and not delivered?

No it'd not a fact its a projection.

And above you will see why.

Because election tracker that calculate the GE seat pick up show labour fell short of a majority by about 40 seats.

And tonoperstw woth ease,( becausenof abstainers and opposition in yoirnown part) you need a majority of about 60.

A poor turnout in local elections Isn't a New phenomenon no. But again, it speak volumes people would rather not turn up than give labour a vote or any 1 else.

Nothing about the bojo manifesto....erm check the total councillor's elected because of the tory manifesto and how many rishi lost.

Labour predicted to be 28 seats short.

What do you believe has changed from the Conservative party's vague promises since 2019? Do you think that the electorate do not like Sunak's pledges?

1. Inflation

“halve inflation this year to ease the cost of living and give people financial security”

2. Growing the economy

“grow the economy, creating better-paid jobs and opportunity right across the country”.

3. National debt falling

“national debt is falling so that we can secure the future of public services”.

4. Falling NHS waiting lists

“NHS waiting lists will fall and people will get the care they need more quickly”.

5. Illegal migration

“We will pass new laws to stop small boats, making sure that if you come to this country illegally, you are detained and swiftly removed,” he said.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-prime-minister-government-nhs-parliament-b1050833.html

The reality is that even though the general population may think that Sunak himself is competent they do not trust or like the party and certainly not BoJo.

A return for Spaffer (similar to trump) will destroy the Tory party,

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

I tend to think that disgruntled Tories vote lib dem often at locals and sometimes at a GE. In the past I have heard that the greens policies could be classed as more left wing than current Labour. Are disgruntled Labour supporters using the green party to show their anger. I think SKS is far more electable than Corbyn ever was but Corbyn supporters might see the greens represent them more these days. I still see Labour winning a decent majority at the GE

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"As we see with every council.election when people aremt happy lots of protest votes. Labour needed circa 1000+ seats to show any actually change might happen in the election.

If early reports are to be believed significant numbers stayed at home.

We know come election time greens and lib dems won't get these votes.

The tories got a message get going with your bojo election manifesto and being Conservative.

Jeir got a wakeup. Stip reversing your promises and sitting on the fence.

Labour needing 1000 seats is not a "fact".

A poor turnout in local elections is not a new phenomenon.

If people are not happy, any they have not been for some time judging by the last local elections and bi-elections, then the Tory vote is not coming back.

There has been zero message about wanting a BoJo manifesto. That is nothing but you wanting to see something that doesn't exist.

The only information is that the people are not happy and they don't see the Government fixing it.

They are making Brexit a great success according to you and doing wonderful work being nasty to immigrants. What more have they promised and not delivered?

No it'd not a fact its a projection.

And above you will see why.

Because election tracker that calculate the GE seat pick up show labour fell short of a majority by about 40 seats.

And tonoperstw woth ease,( becausenof abstainers and opposition in yoirnown part) you need a majority of about 60.

A poor turnout in local elections Isn't a New phenomenon no. But again, it speak volumes people would rather not turn up than give labour a vote or any 1 else.

Nothing about the bojo manifesto....erm check the total councillor's elected because of the tory manifesto and how many rishi lost.

Labour predicted to be 28 seats short.

What do you believe has changed from the Conservative party's vague promises since 2019? Do you think that the electorate do not like Sunak's pledges?

1. Inflation

“halve inflation this year to ease the cost of living and give people financial security”

2. Growing the economy

“grow the economy, creating better-paid jobs and opportunity right across the country”.

3. National debt falling

“national debt is falling so that we can secure the future of public services”.

4. Falling NHS waiting lists

“NHS waiting lists will fall and people will get the care they need more quickly”.

5. Illegal migration

“We will pass new laws to stop small boats, making sure that if you come to this country illegally, you are detained and swiftly removed,” he said.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-prime-minister-government-nhs-parliament-b1050833.html

The reality is that even though the general population may think that Sunak himself is competent they do not trust or like the party and certainly not BoJo.

A return for Spaffer (similar to trump) will destroy the Tory party, "

It worked out well last time....

....

Oh wait.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I tend to think that disgruntled Tories vote lib dem often at locals and sometimes at a GE. In the past I have heard that the greens policies could be classed as more left wing than current Labour. Are disgruntled Labour supporters using the green party to show their anger. I think SKS is far more electable than Corbyn ever was but Corbyn supporters might see the greens represent them more these days. I still see Labour winning a decent majority at the GE"

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

As you state, the Labour party is clearly far more electable than it was. Conversely, the Conservative party is far less electable. Not because of Sunak, but because it's perceived trustworthiness and competence.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted. "

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite."

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving. "

Until they saw the consequences...

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences..."

Most still don't care

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care"

There were a small number of people passionate about Brexit. However, like most politics, most people made a decision because they felt that they had to and are perfectly able to regret what they did.

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience."

Isn't that the point. Most people weren't bothered about being a member of the EU.

Most people aren't bothered about not being a member of the EU.

Most people don't realise the effects of being a member or not, all they know is they now can't freely move to the EU.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience."

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

Isn't that the point. Most people weren't bothered about being a member of the EU.

Most people aren't bothered about not being a member of the EU.

Most people don't realise the effects of being a member or not, all they know is they now can't freely move to the EU."

They also know that there has been disruption without benefit.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point. "

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position."

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used."

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support."

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it."

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see."

Apologies, I've just scanned it again. They're saying that polling suggests Labour will win all 42 seats as it stands, and although they would lose a small share percentage of red wall seats but would still win them all.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It looks like Blue Labour lost a lot of seats, and Red Labour gobbled most of them up with Yellow Labour taking a share too.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'"

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'"

I think Starmer would be cutting his own throat if he came out with Brexit was a mistake. He has u-turned once on his brexit stance and he can't afford to risk losing the red wall again.

His best way forward is to do what Sunak is doing, by working with the EU and not against them which was Johnson's way of getting it done.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?"

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

I think Starmer would be cutting his own throat if he came out with Brexit was a mistake. He has u-turned once on his brexit stance and he can't afford to risk losing the red wall again.

His best way forward is to do what Sunak is doing, by working with the EU and not against them which was Johnson's way of getting it done."

I agree with this way. We can't now reverse it so let's get to work, to make it work.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me."

The referendum was won on the merits of the case. No claim by either side went unchallenged and all claims were fact checked. People voted on what they read, heard and on the evidence of their own eyes. There was no coercion, no pressure, no jingoism. Just democracy.

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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago

PDI 12-26th Nov 24

I can give you 365 million reasons why the referendum was based on lies

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me."

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

No, the claims were not "tested" at the time.

They were only argued over.

They are being tested now and the consequences are not proving popular.

We can now only fix what we can as best we can.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

There was a great deal of jingoism.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

There was a great deal of jingoism.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest."

Nah it's a fallacy. People made informed voting decisions - it's patronising to suggest otherwise. Sure people were vocal in their views (on both sides) - that's not jingoism.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner."

I'm saying plenty of people have told me they voted because of the condescending nature of Remain's arguments. Whether we agree those arguments are now coming to fruition or not is irrelevant, people voted leave because of the manner in which they were put across.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

Are you sure?

There was years and years of subtle and sometimes not so subtle coercion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side. "
there's an odd circular set of reasoning you can see falling out of this.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side. there's an odd circular set of reasoning you can see falling out of this. "

Probably, I will never succeed in persuading said poster on any topic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side. there's an odd circular set of reasoning you can see falling out of this.

Probably, I will never succeed in persuading said poster on any topic."
no comment.

I meant more that reninwes may respond somewhat condescendingky if you tell them you voted to (in remainders view)akw life worst, simply because the remain arguments were in a tone you didn't like.

It's saying no to a pay rise because your mates getting a bigger one.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side. there's an odd circular set of reasoning you can see falling out of this.

Probably, I will never succeed in persuading said poster on any topic.no comment.

I meant more that reninwes may respond somewhat condescendingky if you tell them you voted to (in remainders view)akw life worst, simply because the remain arguments were in a tone you didn't like.

It's saying no to a pay rise because your mates getting a bigger one. "

Apologies but I'm not really following.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

There was a great deal of jingoism.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

Nah it's a fallacy. People made informed voting decisions - it's patronising to suggest otherwise. Sure people were vocal in their views (on both sides) - that's not jingoism. "

You believe that there was no jingoism? No call to a fantasy of Britain's past greatness? How much better things were and how great they could be if only we could go it alone?

How is it "patronising" to suggest that political tool was used? Of course it was.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side. "

So, you're agreeing.

They chose to vote in a certain way because of how they felt. So why would any party saying Brexit was crap have to explain what to do about it? There was no explanation about how Brexit would be achieved. People will change their minds because of how they feel. They don't feel happy and Brexit has brought no happiness to most of those who voted for it.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case. "

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

I've said this many times before, Brexit hasn't affected most people in the way you think. The only thing that's changed for most is that they can't up sticks and move to the EU without question. Most of our population have no interest in economics, trade deals etc.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?"

I agree with what you've said here.

I said similar. And in my opinion it's a bonkers situation to be in where our politicians have to pretend brexit was a good idea incase they lose votes.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

I agree with what you've said here.

I said similar. And in my opinion it's a bonkers situation to be in where our politicians have to pretend brexit was a good idea incase they lose votes."

We do agree every now and then

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

I agree with what you've said here.

I said similar. And in my opinion it's a bonkers situation to be in where our politicians have to pretend brexit was a good idea incase they lose votes.

We do agree every now and then

No we don't.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?"

People often vote because of how they feel (or are made to feel) regardless of any objective data.

That is what you have said about "Project fear". Itself a clearly emotive label.

If people now feel that Brexit was a bad idea (as the polling seems to indicate) all that is necessary is to agree.

Starmer doesn't have to do anything else. You have stated that he has to say how he fixes it. He clearly doesn't. Leave didn't have to say how they would achieve "cakeism". If as you say they didn't even want Brexit they just wanted to spite some people who said that it would be bad, the "experts", then it's even simpler.

The people to spite noe are those saying everything will be fine if you accept being poorer for longer. If Brexit is also perceived to be part of the problem, then by your anecdotes you vote for those who agree that it's part of the problem even if there is no solution.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

Are you sure?

There was years and years of subtle and sometimes not so subtle coercion."

Well the very nature of a public vote is that each side will try to persuade voters. But we have brains and free will. We can sort the wheat from chaff. I don't buy this 'voters misled' narrative.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

There was a great deal of jingoism.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

Nah it's a fallacy. People made informed voting decisions - it's patronising to suggest otherwise. Sure people were vocal in their views (on both sides) - that's not jingoism.

You believe that there was no jingoism? No call to a fantasy of Britain's past greatness? How much better things were and how great they could be if only we could go it alone?

How is it "patronising" to suggest that political tool was used? Of course it was."

You've neatly answered your own question. It's highly patronising to say voters sided with Brexit because of some illusion of past greatness. If anything, the opposite was true - people were looking to the future, not the past.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

Are you sure?

There was years and years of subtle and sometimes not so subtle coercion.

Well the very nature of a public vote is that each side will try to persuade voters. But we have brains and free will. We can sort the wheat from chaff. I don't buy this 'voters misled' narrative. "

The evidence suggests different

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

People often vote because of how they feel (or are made to feel) regardless of any objective data.

That is what you have said about "Project fear". Itself a clearly emotive label.

If people now feel that Brexit was a bad idea (as the polling seems to indicate) all that is necessary is to agree.

I still think most people don't care about Brexit. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see how this plays out but I just don't see Labour picking up every red wall seat, especially if they now turn on Brexit.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

People often vote because of how they feel (or are made to feel) regardless of any objective data.

That is what you have said about "Project fear". Itself a clearly emotive label.

If people now feel that Brexit was a bad idea (as the polling seems to indicate) all that is necessary is to agree.

More agreement here.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

There was a great deal of jingoism.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

Nah it's a fallacy. People made informed voting decisions - it's patronising to suggest otherwise. Sure people were vocal in their views (on both sides) - that's not jingoism.

You believe that there was no jingoism? No call to a fantasy of Britain's past greatness? How much better things were and how great they could be if only we could go it alone?

How is it "patronising" to suggest that political tool was used? Of course it was.

No. Jingoism and future performance based on the past are very much the tone of the arguments put forward.That together with fear of immigrants.

Saying otherwise is a pretence. I don't really know why you are insisting there was some non-emotive discussion.

That's plainly untrue, but clearly not something that you are able or willing to accept so no more to speak about with you.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

People often vote because of how they feel (or are made to feel) regardless of any objective data.

That is what you have said about "Project fear". Itself a clearly emotive label.

If people now feel that Brexit was a bad idea (as the polling seems to indicate) all that is necessary is to agree.

The majority don't care about or do not support Brexit now.

I didn't say that every red wall seat would switch, but it is looking like it could happen with or without support for Brexit. Something impossible to even consider a few years ago.

So, the major plank of BoJo and Conservative policy for years is irrelevant. Returning to belligerent "negotiations" with the EU and the harshest interpretation of Brexit is not something that will change Tory fortunes.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You can see how big the change is from the 2019 election results.

Pretending that win was only because of BoJo's popularity and policies compared to the unpopularity of Corbyn is foolhardy.

The conservatives became far less electable from 31/01/20 @ 23:00.

Labour supporters in the north got what they wanted.

They didn't get what they wanted though because, apparently, Sunak has had to renegotiate it and the majority now think that Brexit was a crap idea.

It has not improved anything. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough in terms of the nuts and bolts of the deal, I genuinely don't think most of the brexit voters really cared about anything other than leaving.

Until they saw the consequences...

Most still don't care

Before the referendum membership of the EU hardly bothered anybody.

In fact, according to the Constitution Society (whoever they may be), the Labour party could gain a larger voter share turning against Brexit.

The world turns. People do learn from experience.

I've just read the Constitution Society findings, it was kinda going well until they said Labour were projected to win a majority of 404 seats

Maybe maths isn't their strong point.

That's obviously a typo. Why use that to dismiss it?

Still am interesting poll, but I don't know if the organisation does or does not have a partisan position.

I don't think it is a typo, they claim Labour are projected to win 526 seats, with a majority of 404. I could accept a typo but that looks like a calculation.

Then there's the problem that it had been picked up by other outlets and used.

The calculation for the number of seats is not in the polling data though and seems to be a long way off, so yes, clearly something wrong there.

The central point remains the same though. The percentages of the polling for voting intent are consistent with disavowing Brexit leading to more Labour support.

You're right it's not in the polling data. Maybe I'm just being cynical but when I see one calculation that's wildly wrong, it makes me question other calculations.

I personally dont agree that disavowing Brexit is going to help labour claim every single red wall seat, that's what they're saying.

Obviously time will tell but I just can't see it.

They're saying that it makes no difference to Labour winning the red wall seats but is an overall national improvement in voting intention as far as I can see.

Nationally they say it could grow their share by 2 percentage points.

It's interesting but do you honestly believe it?

If Labour say Brexit was a mistake, I'd imagine people will want to hear how they'll fix it. I don't think it's as simple as just saying 'it was a mistake'

The Brexit referendum was "won" just by saying it would be better. People believed it.

Now that they have experienced the negatives but no obvious positives, why should they not just believe the opposite?

The referendum wasn't 'won' by 'just saying it would be better'. I truly believe it was won by 'Project fear'. That's what the people I know have told me.

You're saying that it was lost because the reality, which has come to pass and people are now upset about, was explained to them beforehand.

So, not that people liked being told that Brexit would be good, but they didn't like being told that it would be bad.

In that case, it means they chose to not believe something.

What stops them from choosing to believe something else?

The polling says what the polling says without second guessing it. There's no reason for Labour to take the gamble anyway for such a modest and unclear advantage.

The point is that supporting Brexit is not a clear vote winner.

It's still happening now. We see 'I told you so' 'you're thick' 'you're racist' on a daily basis. Its unfortunate but its the reality of the situation.

I didn't even vote to leave and I have plenty of it levelled at me just because I can see the other side.

So, you're agreeing.

This segway was because of the, "interesting", claim that the Tory loss of votes was because of moving away fro BoJo's "policies" of which the flagship was Brexit.

The poll under discussion, as have plenty more, indicates that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm not sure where you think I'm agreeing with you.

Let's say SKS tells all of those red wall voters that Brexit was wrong, how do you think they'll 'feel' about that?

I certainly don't think those who voted now being told, you were wrong then and you're still wrong now is suddenly going to make them vote for him.

People obviously are affected by inflation but do you honestly think most Brexit voters are blaming Brexit for inflation?

People often vote because of how they feel (or are made to feel) regardless of any objective data.

That is what you have said about "Project fear". Itself a clearly emotive label.

If people now feel that Brexit was a bad idea (as the polling seems to indicate) all that is necessary is to agree.

The majority don't care about or do not support Brexit now.

I didn't say that every red wall seat would switch, but it is looking like it could happen with or without support for Brexit. Something impossible to even consider a few years ago.

I didn't say 'you said' every red wall seat would switch, the survey says it though, as well as their wild calculations.

I think we're probably done here, otherwise we'll just keep going round in circles

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

There is one very important factor in this discussion that has been left out, Corbyn and his changing views on leaving the EU and the labour party MP's such as Starmer and Abbott who were vocal that they would support a second referendum.

The red wall wanted out of the EU, their motivation was mainly taking back control. Johnson was pledging to get brexit done and that was far more appealing than Corbyn's labour party who seemed to want to undo their votes.

Corbyn was not trusted by both labour and conservative voters, quite the achievement.

Starmer has u-turned on his views and I would expect the old labour safe seats to turn red once again.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"There is one very important factor in this discussion that has been left out, Corbyn and his changing views on leaving the EU and the labour party MP's such as Starmer and Abbott who were vocal that they would support a second referendum.

Corbyn was not trusted by both labour and conservative voters, quite the achievement.

Starmer has u-turned on his views and I would expect the old labour safe seats to turn red once again. "

It wasn't supporting a second referendum on Brexit.

It was a referendum on if the negotiated Brexit settlement was acceptable. That is very different.

This not having been done is the reason that everyone from Europhiles to ardent Brexiteers are unhappy with where we are. Brexit was never defined, not was the outcome agreed as acceptable.

Once various treaties have been signed, reneged on and renegotiated that has become moot. We are where we are. Some closer relationship than now is inevitable but could take decades to formalise into joining EFTA or something similar.

I get that you do not like Starmer and keep saying "u-turn" but you are yet to define why what has been done is so unacceptable to you.

Should he try to deliver policies that cannot be delivered after significant economics and geopolitical change?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

Corbyn was not trusted by both labour and conservative voters, quite the achievement.

Starmer has u-turned on his views and I would expect the old labour safe seats to turn red once again.

It wasn't supporting a second referendum on Brexit.

It was a referendum on if the negotiated Brexit settlement was acceptable. That is very different.

This not having been done is the reason that everyone from Europhiles to ardent Brexiteers are unhappy with where we are. Brexit was never defined, not was the outcome agreed as acceptable.

I get that you do not like Starmer and keep saying "u-turn" but you are yet to define why what has been done is so unacceptable to you.

Should he try to deliver policies that cannot be delivered after significant economics and geopolitical change?"

Starmer's words, Sept 2019:

"We need to ask the public whether they are prepared to leave with the best deal that can be negotiated or whether they wouldn’t rather stay in the EU. There is no other way to break the Brexit cycle and for the country to move on.

So, if Labour wins the next election, we will act swiftly. In the first Queen’s Speech of a Labour government, we will immediately introduce legislation for a referendum to take place".

This is why the red wall voted conservative, they had no trust in him and his cabinet not trying to reverse the vote. Brexit caused an almighty rift in this country, he couldn't read the room then and he can't now, that is why we continually see the u-turns.

Starmer in my opinion needs better strategical advisors, who can help navigate into the next GE, because at this rate he will have nothing to bring to the table. The country as a whole need to have some faith that things are going to get better (I know

) No more dropping pledges, get the roadmap on delivery set in stone, workout the costs and give the country some hope. Things may fall by the wayside, that is inevitable but prioritise and cut other things to ensure delivery of the priorities.

I will vote for leadership and clear direction even if I'm not 100% onboard with all the policies, it is what I feel this country needs.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Corbyn was not trusted by both labour and conservative voters, quite the achievement.

Starmer has u-turned on his views and I would expect the old labour safe seats to turn red once again.

It wasn't supporting a second referendum on Brexit.

It was a referendum on if the negotiated Brexit settlement was acceptable. That is very different.

This not having been done is the reason that everyone from Europhiles to ardent Brexiteers are unhappy with where we are. Brexit was never defined, not was the outcome agreed as acceptable.

I get that you do not like Starmer and keep saying "u-turn" but you are yet to define why what has been done is so unacceptable to you.

Should he try to deliver policies that cannot be delivered after significant economics and geopolitical change?

Starmer's words, Sept 2019:

So, if Labour wins the next election, we will act swiftly. In the first Queen’s Speech of a Labour government, we will immediately introduce legislation for a referendum to take place".

I will vote for leadership and clear direction even if I'm not 100% onboard with all the policies, it is what I feel this country needs. "

Perhaps the characterisation of it being another Brexit vote rather than on the acceptability of the negotiated deal is why the red wall voted for the Tories.

So you are saying that you should not drop a pledge if circumstances mean that it cannot be delivered. That engenders faith in Government, does it?

As a consequence we got the harshest form of Brexit which we were told would never ever happen.

What Starmer said was, in fact, more honest and sensible than what was voted for.

However, the polling still indicates that Brexit is now unpopular and the election results say that the Labour party is not mistrusted as much as the Conservative party.

Don't things "falling by the wayside" mean breaking pledges?

You don't seem to like what is being prioritised. Perhaps others do?

It sounds like you will vote for the person who says that they will not break their promises knowing full well that they will because that is strong leadership. That's called lying, isn't it? Isn't that why we are where we are?