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"Would lower powered vaccuum cleaners not hoover up the last straw ?" Not powerful enough! | |||
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"Tom remembers his tipping point. The last straw was they wanted us to have low powered vacuum cleaners. That was when he realised he must vote leave. Any other reasons..." Yeah. James Dyson felt the same. He'd already shipped production out to the far East years before moving his HQ to Singapore in 2019. Still took nearly £9m in EU funding post the referendum too. And asked Boris to bend tax rules during covid if his firm made ventilators. A lot of people who wanted brexit weren't doing it for the benefit of the country as a whole........ A | |||
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"There are valid reasons on both side, but whatever the reasons, amusing ones or serious ones, both to stay and to leave, I can't help thinking we really should have known what we were voting for before we voted for it. "Do you want a Brexit?" "Yaaaaay". Might have been nice if someone had actually laid out what it would mean, how it would be implemented and how it would work, before people voted for it. If not in every detail, then at least an overall view. The big and the small, from the Northern Irish border issue, through things like the 90-day rule for visiting Europe or being able to feely live and work and study across Europe, down to little things like mobile phone roaming charges when on holiday. Tell people what it means. The calls for another Scottish independence referendum all seem to be exactly the same, lots of hand on heart patriotism (which is fine as far as it goes) but little mention of the practicalities. That big clamour for Scotland to rejoin the EU after Brexit? Great, but *explain* to people what it will mean for the border. I've heard far too many "We'll get an agreement" answers, but really, we needed to know what that was first before we voted out of the agreement we already had..." The problem is that 'Leave' did say what we'd get. The main problem is that most of what they said was bollocks and lies, and even when they decided what it would look like after winning, drawing up and voting an agreement through, getting it agreed with the EU.......they still backtracked and changed their minds. There's never been such a massive clusterfuck as brexit..... 
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"And the cucumber debarkle... "
Next thing you'll be blaming the EU for us not being able to eat chips out of old newspaper......... 
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"And the cucumber debarkle...
Next thing you'll be blaming the EU for us not being able to eat chips out of old newspaper.........
A"Tom loved eating his chips wrapped in newspaper. The inner wrapper was always plain white paper. If you were lucky you might get a Hagar the horrible cartoon or a crossword.. Tom has never forgiven the French for that one | |||
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"And the cucumber debarkle...
Next thing you'll be blaming the EU for us not being able to eat chips out of old newspaper.........
A
Tom loved eating his chips wrapped in newspaper. The inner wrapper was always plain white paper. If you were lucky you might get a Hagar the horrible cartoon or a crossword.. Tom has never forgiven the French for that one"Yeah. Except it was actually introduced by the British government under the 1990 Food Safety Act. 
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"And the cucumber debarkle...
Next thing you'll be blaming the EU for us not being able to eat chips out of old newspaper.........
A
Tom loved eating his chips wrapped in newspaper. The inner wrapper was always plain white paper. If you were lucky you might get a Hagar the horrible cartoon or a crossword.. Tom has never forgiven the French for that one
Yeah.
Except it was actually introduced by the British government under the 1990 Food Safety Act.
A"And following pressure from the EU... Tom went to France once and the buggers served him raw mince and raw egg ... Tom not been back... | |||
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" Tom went to France once and the buggers served him raw mince and raw egg ... Tom not been back... " Has Tom got a beautiful blue passport which was worth leaving the EU for ? | |||
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"Tom remembers his tipping point. The last straw was they wanted us to have low powered vacuum cleaners. That was when he realised he must vote leave. Any other reasons..." In fairness, this is the best reason I've heard so far. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants"." Unfortunately true! Very sad! X | |||
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" Tom went to France once and the buggers served him raw mince and raw egg ... Tom not been back... Has Tom got a beautiful blue passport which was worth leaving the EU for ?" Tom no longer has a passport... He holidays in Blackpool, Bridlington or Bournemouth... Every year | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants"." I didnt | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X" If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants"." That's the trope that was peddled by Gordon Brown and Tony Bliar all those years ago. Question immigration and they branded you a racist. Same with identity politics. Question and be called phobic ... Gutter politics really | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". That's the trope that was peddled by Gordon Brown and Tony Bliar all those years ago. Question immigration and they branded you a racist. Same with identity politics. Question and be called phobic ... Gutter politics really"  | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad"" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad"" Good analogy | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". That's the trope that was peddled by Gordon Brown and Tony Bliar all those years ago. Question immigration and they branded you a racist. Same with identity politics. Question and be called phobic ... Gutter politics really "Indeed Anyone who has concerns about uncontrolled, unchecked immigration is just moments away from being branded with the 'R' word, moronic, narrow-minded etc etc which is designed to stop the debate immediately and shame the concerned. Happens frequently. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. " So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". That's the trope that was peddled by Gordon Brown and Tony Bliar all those years ago. Question immigration and they branded you a racist. Same with identity politics. Question and be called phobic ... Gutter politics really
Indeed Anyone who has concerns about uncontrolled, unchecked immigration is just moments away from being branded with the 'R' word, moronic, narrow-minded etc etc which is designed to stop the debate immediately and shame the concerned. Happens frequently. "Strangely enough we always had the power to stop 'uncontrolled, unchecked immigration'. The government in power just chose not to do so, much the same as thy still do now long after we left the EU. Funny that, eh....
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". That's the trope that was peddled by Gordon Brown and Tony Bliar all those years ago. Question immigration and they branded you a racist. Same with identity politics. Question and be called phobic ... Gutter politics really
Indeed Anyone who has concerns about uncontrolled, unchecked immigration is just moments away from being branded with the 'R' word, moronic, narrow-minded etc etc which is designed to stop the debate immediately and shame the concerned. Happens frequently. "I'm expecting that anytime soon | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? " No, what's this got to do with anything? " So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply." Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. " Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. " You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK." | |||
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"The EU is a gravy train for wealthy and well connected politicians. We already have enough issues with corruption and poor governance at a national level and we don't need that centralised to a continental level." Checks and balances though. Much like the House of Lords. It was only down to EU membership that the UK government couldn't impose ludicrous, costly and illegal policies like Rwanda. It's funny how many new threats there are to laws protecting working conditions and employment regulations since we left. And the fact we're now not restricted to the tax avoidance laws that are EU policies to prevent corporations avoiding paying tax where money is earned. Which suits the current government no end.......
A | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". That's the trope that was peddled by Gordon Brown and Tony Bliar all those years ago. Question immigration and they branded you a racist. Same with identity politics. Question and be called phobic ... Gutter politics really" Did I mention racism in my reply? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. " Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. | |||
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" Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. " UK did have control... It wasn't in the Schengen area. You still needed a passport to enter the UK. An "illegal economic migrant" could not enter the UK illegally while we were in the EU. People coming over from the EU had to show they were 'Economically active" i.e. working. They couldn't come over and claim social security or student loans. | |||
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" Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. UK did have control... It wasn't in the Schengen area. You still needed a passport to enter the UK. An "illegal economic migrant" could not enter the UK illegally while we were in the EU. People coming over from the EU had to show they were 'Economically active" i.e. working. They couldn't come over and claim social security or student loans." Shhh with your crazy facts.......
You're not supposed to use valid arguments about real legislation and rules to back up your point.
It defeats the object of blaming everything on 'uncontrolled immigration '.  
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" Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. UK did have control... It wasn't in the Schengen area. You still needed a passport to enter the UK. An "illegal economic migrant" could not enter the UK illegally while we were in the EU. People coming over from the EU had to show they were 'Economically active" i.e. working. They couldn't come over and claim social security or student loans. Shhh with your crazy facts.......
You're not supposed to use valid arguments about real legislation and rules to back up your point.
It defeats the object of blaming everything on 'uncontrolled immigration '.
A"No one's blaming everything. And haven't I told you a million times Not to exagerrate | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK." "Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. " Yeah it's very difficult to guage. Best estimates put it at double the damage done by the pandemic. When did the UK accept a load of illegal immigrants? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants? "Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here. | |||
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"Other reasons would include protecting the sovereignty and autonomy of the UK as a nation state, in particular with regard to our own legislation." And that's probably one of the main reasons I voted to remain. I absolutely do not want my government having complete freedom to make whatever laws they wish and imposing said laws on the native population. I would much prefer a check and counterbalance to prevent any untrammelled powers and laws being introduced by any sovereign nation. Without oversight, this is how nations pass laws detrimental to their people. Uganda is a good example. MPs in Uganda have passed a controversial anti-LGBTQ+ bill, which would make homosexual acts punishable by death. No oversight. They just passed it because they could. And that is not on. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here. "If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?"I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report. If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad"" What a stupid response!! | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report. "Got it, I need to put your post into context myself | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. " not really assuming you accept other EU countries also have had to deal with covid and the energy crisis etc alternatively OBR published a report last month you could read that. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself "Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said. If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in. | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in. "I see your point, I have asked you a question based on your very matter of fact post and that was supported by % and actual £'s made, but you really don't know anything about it, so you can't comment on it
I will leave it there | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK." "you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. tge other chap said overall they don't you then correct it and say well Europeans do you then tell him to read the report lol seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened  | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in. "it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain | |||
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"The so called remainders always bring it back to migration and immigration. Tom voted out because of the hoover laws. Toms hoover needs more suction and not less.. Shame on the EU hoover medlers " What type of vacuum cleaner do you currently use? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain "Overall they are a benefit to the economy | |||
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"The so called remainders always bring it back to migration and immigration. Tom voted out because of the hoover laws. Toms hoover needs more suction and not less.. Shame on the EU hoover medlers " Niche.. | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy "in that report? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report? "Yes | |||
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"The elephant in the room that the political cretins always miss.... " Political cretins? Please explain | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes "Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth." thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain "Utter nonsense, and even a GCSE-Level economist would know better than that. Let’s put it in the simplest terms possible. The more people that you have in paid employment, the more tax and NI revenue that is collected directly and more VAT, fuel and other duties are collected indirectly. If an economy is losing revenue despite having a larger workforce then the problem is with tax and NI regulations that are not fit for purpose. CAVEAT - we have never had such ineffective regulations, the direct and indirect tax and NI take from an increasingly larger workforce has always been a positive benefit to this country. The aged, the infirm, the young and the unproductive are the real drain on the economy and they are all overwhelmingly gone-grown problems. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Utter nonsense, and even a GCSE-Level economist would know better than that.
Let’s put it in the simplest terms possible.
The more people that you have in paid employment, the more tax and NI revenue that is collected directly and more VAT, fuel and other duties are collected indirectly.
If an economy is losing revenue despite having a larger workforce then the problem is with tax and NI regulations that are not fit for purpose. CAVEAT - we have never had such ineffective regulations, the direct and indirect tax and NI take from an increasingly larger workforce has always been a positive benefit to this country.
The aged, the infirm, the young and the unproductive are the real drain on the economy and they are all overwhelmingly gone-grown problems."how rude. I am quoting report only. Is report wrong? what is gone-grown? | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit? "EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce. Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working. The answers are all pretty obvious. | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Utter nonsense, and even a GCSE-Level economist would know better than that.
Let’s put it in the simplest terms possible.
The more people that you have in paid employment, the more tax and NI revenue that is collected directly and more VAT, fuel and other duties are collected indirectly.
If an economy is losing revenue despite having a larger workforce then the problem is with tax and NI regulations that are not fit for purpose. CAVEAT - we have never had such ineffective regulations, the direct and indirect tax and NI take from an increasingly larger workforce has always been a positive benefit to this country.
The aged, the infirm, the young and the unproductive are the real drain on the economy and they are all overwhelmingly gone-grown problems."The aged and the infirm have either been contributing or have a valid excuse, as do the young under working age. The unproductive is where the problem lies and that applies across the board | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Utter nonsense, and even a GCSE-Level economist would know better than that.
Let’s put it in the simplest terms possible.
The more people that you have in paid employment, the more tax and NI revenue that is collected directly and more VAT, fuel and other duties are collected indirectly.
If an economy is losing revenue despite having a larger workforce then the problem is with tax and NI regulations that are not fit for purpose. CAVEAT - we have never had such ineffective regulations, the direct and indirect tax and NI take from an increasingly larger workforce has always been a positive benefit to this country.
The aged, the infirm, the young and the unproductive are the real drain on the economy and they are all overwhelmingly gone-grown problems.
how rude. I am quoting report only. Is report wrong?
what is gone-grown?
"Typo. Home grown | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit? "Oh FFS - you realise the majority of immigrants aren't allowed to 'pay their way' at present by working and contributing to tax income or the wider economy through their spending? Maybe if the Tories sorted out a proper immigration and asylum system that processed applicants quickly rather than dumping them for months/years at cost, then there wouldn't be the expense and there'd also be greater tax receipts to boot? Given the argument is that the vast majority aren't genuine asylum seekers and they're just economic migrants what sense does it make to not let them work quicker and fill the current high number of job vacancies, many caused by European workers going home? The cost of immigration is self inflicted. Who do you think has the contracts for accommodating and feeding asylum seekers? Because if you follow the money it reads very similarly to the whole covid/PPE supply chain fiasco and backhanders. A | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious."Thank you. So I think question is has report gone wrong by saying last paragraph group costs more than first para group brings to economy? I am keen to understand so pls don't shout | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Utter nonsense, and even a GCSE-Level economist would know better than that.
Let’s put it in the simplest terms possible.
The more people that you have in paid employment, the more tax and NI revenue that is collected directly and more VAT, fuel and other duties are collected indirectly.
If an economy is losing revenue despite having a larger workforce then the problem is with tax and NI regulations that are not fit for purpose. CAVEAT - we have never had such ineffective regulations, the direct and indirect tax and NI take from an increasingly larger workforce has always been a positive benefit to this country.
The aged, the infirm, the young and the unproductive are the real drain on the economy and they are all overwhelmingly gone-grown problems.
The aged and the infirm have either been contributing or have a valid excuse, as do the young under working age. The unproductive is where the problem lies and that applies across the board"Yes but the contribution is only valid when it is being made. The longer people live, the more they are a drain on the economy and when less than 50% of the population are supporting the rest - that is where the problem lies. Taxes need to raise or the working population needs to rise. EU migration was a great benefit in this regard. | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Utter nonsense, and even a GCSE-Level economist would know better than that.
Let’s put it in the simplest terms possible.
The more people that you have in paid employment, the more tax and NI revenue that is collected directly and more VAT, fuel and other duties are collected indirectly.
If an economy is losing revenue despite having a larger workforce then the problem is with tax and NI regulations that are not fit for purpose. CAVEAT - we have never had such ineffective regulations, the direct and indirect tax and NI take from an increasingly larger workforce has always been a positive benefit to this country.
The aged, the infirm, the young and the unproductive are the real drain on the economy and they are all overwhelmingly gone-grown problems.
The aged and the infirm have either been contributing or have a valid excuse, as do the young under working age. The unproductive is where the problem lies and that applies across the board
Yes but the contribution is only valid when it is being made. The longer people live, the more they are a drain on the economy and when less than 50% of the population are supporting the rest - that is where the problem lies.
Taxes need to raise or the working population needs to rise. EU migration was a great benefit in this regard."The younger generation are able to support the older generation when they are unable to help themselves, just as it was in reverse | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
Oh FFS - you realise the majority of immigrants aren't allowed to 'pay their way' at present by working and contributing to tax income or the wider economy through their spending?
Maybe if the Tories sorted out a proper immigration and asylum system that processed applicants quickly rather than dumping them for months/years at cost, then there wouldn't be the expense and there'd also be greater tax receipts to boot?
Given the argument is that the vast majority aren't genuine asylum seekers and they're just economic migrants what sense does it make to not let them work quicker and fill the current high number of job vacancies, many caused by European workers going home?
The cost of immigration is self inflicted. Who do you think has the contracts for accommodating and feeding asylum seekers? Because if you follow the money it reads very similarly to the whole covid/PPE supply chain fiasco and backhanders.
A
"friends and contacts of government? | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious."This post is more accurate and to the point... However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat. The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent. The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets. Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin. If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence. | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence. "To my simple mind, we take migrants if benefit to UK. When we take migrants from albania, can that be the case? Plus it makes albania worse off when healthy men leave there when no war there? | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence. "I disagree. All immigration is not a benefit. There's a reason for the Australian model and it works. I don't see why it isn't/can't be modified to work for the uk | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence.
I disagree. All immigration is not a benefit. There's a reason for the Australian model and it works. I don't see why it isn't/can't be modified to work for the uk"I think we agree then  | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence.
I disagree. All immigration is not a benefit. There's a reason for the Australian model and it works. I don't see why it isn't/can't be modified to work for the uk
I think we agree then "Not sure how you reach that conclusion but I'm happy to take it | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence.
I disagree. All immigration is not a benefit. There's a reason for the Australian model and it works. I don't see why it isn't/can't be modified to work for the uk"Does Australia have a problem with an ageing and increasingly infirm population? Does Australia have a significant productivity problem? Does Australia have an employee shortage? A fundamental dislike of all immigrants is not a reason to champion a policy that would not address the problems that the U.K. uniquely has. | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence.
I disagree. All immigration is not a benefit. There's a reason for the Australian model and it works. I don't see why it isn't/can't be modified to work for the uk
Does Australia have a problem with an ageing and increasingly infirm population? Does Australia have a significant productivity problem? Does Australia have an employee shortage?
A fundamental dislike of all immigrants is not a reason to champion a policy that would not address the problems that the U.K. uniquely has."1. I believe they are getting there 2. I have no idea 3. I believe they identify the skills required and work from there to deal with skills shortages 4. Are you suggesting I have a fundamental dislike of all immigrants? If so, I would tread carefully | |||
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| Reply privately |
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(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
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| Reply privately |
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| Reply privately |
"Other reasons would include protecting the sovereignty and autonomy of the UK as a nation state, in particular with regard to our own legislation. " | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Who remembered when Christine Lagarde said she had "credible evidence" that if we voted to leave the E.U, that we would lose 10% of GDP, which I thought was really ridiculous because that would mean it be worse then the great financial crash of 2008 where we didnt lose 10% of GDP, more serious then the great depression, more serious the First World War, heck more serious since the Romans invaded the South Coast Really 10% of GDP if we leave the EU?? I mean I accept things are not great at the moment but if thats not scaremongering then I dont know what is" Well it's already down 5.5% and it's not been long has it......
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cost-uk-gdp-economy-failure-b2246610.html
A | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. " Sensible, common sense approach | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
Do all migrants create net positive outcomes or is it only European migrants?
Have a read of the report. It's very very long, and cannot be summarised easily on here.
If it is not easy to summarise, how have you managed to summarise it with European migrant figures? I guess you are saying there is a lot more to it than just that?
I copied and pasted their summary from the top of the report.
If you want to learn more, you'd be better off reading said report.
Got it, I need to put your post into context myself
Nope. I was replying to someone making false claims by demonstrating what the report actually said.
If you wish to know everything else in the report, you're better off reading it than asking a randomer on a swingers forum to fill you in.
it wasn't false claims however. Overall they are drain
Overall they are a benefit to the economy
in that report?
Yes
Are we on same report? What I read says "Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants in the UK cost at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day (University College London research, 2014). More recently, for the year 2016/17, a 2018 report for the Migration Advisory Committee estimated that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion, adding to the UK's fiscal deficit (A net contribution of £4.7bn by EEA migrants was considerably outweighed by a cost of £9bn for non-EEA migrants - - see par. 4.11 of MAC report). On this evidence, immigration does not generate the tax receipts needed for migrants to 'pay their way' let alone to finance the new infrastructure or anything else required by rapid population growth."
thar sounds like overall drain to me. were are you getting overall affect from? Seems if eu migrant, it is positive benefit?
EU migrants were almost invariably young, healthy economic migrants and they were a huge boost to the economy because they were increasing the size of the workforce.
Spousal migration, family migration, refugee’s and asylum seekers are a drain because they mainly don’t work or are forbidden from working.
The answers are all pretty obvious.
This post is more accurate and to the point...
However the problem arises when the point scoring and closing down with half baked facts takes front seat.
The common theme is that all immigration provides a net benefit, that is the line time and time again. When questioned on all immigration it becomes specific if the person will answer that is. When pushed on all immigration all migrants it goes silent.
The reality is obvious, all people arriving here have different reasons and have different skill sets.
Doctors will be providing that net gain as an example, to then say all is just spin.
If people were more open rather than trying to be clever it might clear a lot of frustrations on either side of the fence.
To my simple mind, we take migrants if benefit to UK. When we take migrants from albania, can that be the case? Plus it makes albania worse off when healthy men leave there when no war there? "Your mind is not 'simple', it accords with the views of the majority of the country. The minority, including lefty lawyers like Starmer, would prefer to do the opposite on purpose to change the country irrevocably, ensuring votes for the future, because they are soft do-gooders who seem to enjoy irritating the mainstream majority. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. Sensible, common sense approach "As a outsider looking in. Brexit was doomed when the pandemic hit and now people are angry because of the double whammy. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. Sensible, common sense approach As a outsider looking in. Brexit was doomed when the pandemic hit and now people are angry because of the double whammy."Don't need to be an outsider looking in. Most sensible UK residents realised Brexit was going to be difficult and then difficult to judge when the pandemic hit, the Ukraine war hit and knew the left would be angry because of the triple whammy, but blame the Tories regardless. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Sensible countries choose the people immigrating. Not just accept a load of illegal economic migrants. Of course we need people able to contribute. And of course they're not only welcome , but necessary. And to be accurate , add to brexit...a once in a lifetime worldwide epidemic. And....oh yes , a war in Europe! Hard to know how much damage Brexit has done when other factors are involved. Sensible, common sense approach As a outsider looking in. Brexit was doomed when the pandemic hit and now people are angry because of the double whammy.
Don't need to be an outsider looking in. Most sensible UK residents realised Brexit was going to be difficult and then difficult to judge when the pandemic hit, the Ukraine war hit and knew the left would be angry because of the triple whammy, but blame the Tories regardless. "You are correct.. I see the bickering it's basically the same here. People do not look at geopolitical issues that effect nations. Just the here and now. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened "I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear. Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?"IDK if you are aware but the pandemic hit your gdp hard has it not ? So in that aspect what would labour done any different? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?"The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you. You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to | |||
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"Did you factor in the fact we had a pandemic with lockdowns since Brexit as well as a war in Europe? the 5.5% drop in GDP cant be all down to Brexit" Yes, please see above. Of course it can't be all due to Brexit. Most people are reasonable and sensible like you. As long as there are no other exogenous events, we should review in 10 years. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to "He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong. Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK. Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face. | |||
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"Did you factor in the fact we had a pandemic with lockdowns since Brexit as well as a war in Europe? the 5.5% drop in GDP cant be all down to Brexit" It isn’t. Almost all economists agree now that it is 4% that is down to Brexit (regardless of pandemic and Ukraine) and that 4% hit to GDP is permanent. | |||
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"Did you factor in the fact we had a pandemic with lockdowns since Brexit as well as a war in Europe? the 5.5% drop in GDP cant be all down to Brexit It isn’t. Almost all economists agree now that it is 4% that is down to Brexit (regardless of pandemic and Ukraine) and that 4% hit to GDP is permanent." And to add...the economic impact of Brexit has meant the UK has been less able to recover from the impact of the pandemic compounding the problem. A sick man is more likely to be susceptible to getting sick from other illnesses! | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report? IDK if you are aware but the pandemic hit your gdp hard has it not ? So in that aspect what would labour done any different? "What has this hypothetical question about Labour and the pandemic got to do with brexit and immigration? | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to
He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong.
Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK.
Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face. "Please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic cheers | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to "I wasn't making any claims. I was correcting someone else by demonstrating what the report said. If you want to know more. It's freely available. | |||
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"So if we had remained would people in the UK been happy to change to the Euro and scrap sterling surely in is all in." Would never have happened. The UK had a unique deal outside of both the Eurozone and Schengen. | |||
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"Well sounds like some people in here want to rejoin the E.U which is fine but if the country was to do that then its likely the UK will have to adopt the Euro as our currency and probably be on a less favourable deal to the one we left from." 100% there's no going back to what we had. The damage done by brexit is permanent. | |||
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"Well sounds like some people in here want to rejoin the E.U which is fine but if the country was to do that then its likely the UK will have to adopt the Euro as our currency and probably be on a less favourable deal to the one we left from." We had THE best deal before all the Brexit nonsense. VERY unlikely if the UK was to look at rejoining the EU we would have sufficient leverage to get anywhere near the same sweet deal. I wish we had remained in the EU but Cameron had used the referendum result as leverage to secure an even better deal/more concessions from the EU. But no, the coward slunk off and ran away from the shitstorm he had enabled. The UK is far weaker and far poorer than it was in 2016, so we have a much weaker negotiating position. I do not think we should seek to rejoin the EU. Best we can hope for is an EEA style arrangement but that is still far inferior to what we had before. | |||
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"Well sounds like some people in here want to rejoin the E.U which is fine but if the country was to do that then its likely the UK will have to adopt the Euro as our currency and probably be on a less favourable deal to the one we left from. 100% there's no going back to what we had. The damage done by brexit is permanent. " Ain't that the truth! x | |||
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"Other reasons would include protecting the sovereignty and autonomy of the UK as a nation state, in particular with regard to our own legislation. " It's hard to imagine people believed that poppycock though | |||
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"Other reasons would include protecting the sovereignty and autonomy of the UK as a nation state, in particular with regard to our own legislation. It's hard to imagine people believed that poppycock though" Is it? OK. | |||
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"So if we had remained would people in the UK been happy to change to the Euro and scrap sterling surely in is all in." Why bother asking a redundant question? We'd opted out of joining the Euro in 1992 via the Maastricht Treaty. We would never have had to join the Euro. We also had three other opt-outs making the UK unique amongst EU coutries. We weren't in the Schengen zone so weren't subject to the same free movement rules, via the 1997 Treaty of Amsterdam. We had a partial opt out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in relation to domestic labour laws, a result of concern of giving the EU the ability to change rules enabling easier strike action. We also had an opt out ability on a case by case basis relating to police and criminal justice legislation, which the UK exercised in 2013. Tell me again how the EU had full control over UK legislation and we had no soverignty.......
A | |||
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"So if we had remained would people in the UK been happy to change to the Euro and scrap sterling surely in is all in. Why bother asking a redundant question? We'd opted out of joining the Euro in 1992 via the Maastricht Treaty. We would never have had to join the Euro. We also had three other opt-outs making the UK unique amongst EU coutries. We weren't in the Schengen zone so weren't subject to the same free movement rules, via the 1997 Treaty of Amsterdam. We had a partial opt out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in relation to domestic labour laws, a result of concern of giving the EU the ability to change rules enabling easier strike action. We also had an opt out ability on a case by case basis relating to police and criminal justice legislation, which the UK exercised in 2013. Tell me again how the EU had full control over UK legislation and we had no soverignty.......
A" | |||
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"The report (if I'm looking at the right one) says that (in the short run) EU immigration is a positive and non EU is a negative. (Note: Brits are also a negative. I'm not sure if non EU are improving the average loss or making it worse) However it notes this negative is down to the higher cost of education among non EU as they have more kids with them than EU (and Brits). Separate calculations looking at the whole life cycle of non eea migrants did not find a negative impact. However all in all it does suggest the new approach to immigration (the "colour blind approach") will be more costly. Especially as there is no sign of immigration reducing... Just reshaping. " Does the report take account of the impact of negative birth rates amongst the indigenous British population and an ageing workforce moving into retirement without enough young people to backfill all the jobs to fund the bill for all the pensions? | |||
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"The report (if I'm looking at the right one) says that (in the short run) EU immigration is a positive and non EU is a negative. (Note: Brits are also a negative. I'm not sure if non EU are improving the average loss or making it worse) However it notes this negative is down to the higher cost of education among non EU as they have more kids with them than EU (and Brits). Separate calculations looking at the whole life cycle of non eea migrants did not find a negative impact. However all in all it does suggest the new approach to immigration (the "colour blind approach") will be more costly. Especially as there is no sign of immigration reducing... Just reshaping. Does the report take account of the impact of negative birth rates amongst the indigenous British population and an ageing workforce moving into retirement without enough young people to backfill all the jobs to fund the bill for all the pensions? " not as far as I saw. That is bigger piece... Let's design what we want the UK to look like in twenty years, and see if the books balance, and then work out how to plug the gaps. You will be called a leftie for assuming this is immigration. Or for raising tax. Others will tell you to be more imaginative. | |||
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"The report (if I'm looking at the right one) says that (in the short run) EU immigration is a positive and non EU is a negative. (Note: Brits are also a negative. I'm not sure if non EU are improving the average loss or making it worse) However it notes this negative is down to the higher cost of education among non EU as they have more kids with them than EU (and Brits). Separate calculations looking at the whole life cycle of non eea migrants did not find a negative impact. However all in all it does suggest the new approach to immigration (the "colour blind approach") will be more costly. Especially as there is no sign of immigration reducing... Just reshaping. Does the report take account of the impact of negative birth rates amongst the indigenous British population and an ageing workforce moving into retirement without enough young people to backfill all the jobs to fund the bill for all the pensions? not as far as I saw. That is bigger piece... Let's design what we want the UK to look like in twenty years, and see if the books balance, and then work out how to plug the gaps. You will be called a leftie for assuming this is immigration. Or for raising tax. Others will tell you to be more imaginative. " Indeed. Perhaps we could incentivise British couples to have more kids. Yes it will cost more to educate them in the short term but that should pay back long term with a bigger workforce able to fund the state pension liabilities | |||
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"The report (if I'm looking at the right one) says that (in the short run) EU immigration is a positive and non EU is a negative. (Note: Brits are also a negative. I'm not sure if non EU are improving the average loss or making it worse) However it notes this negative is down to the higher cost of education among non EU as they have more kids with them than EU (and Brits). Separate calculations looking at the whole life cycle of non eea migrants did not find a negative impact. However all in all it does suggest the new approach to immigration (the "colour blind approach") will be more costly. Especially as there is no sign of immigration reducing... Just reshaping. Does the report take account of the impact of negative birth rates amongst the indigenous British population and an ageing workforce moving into retirement without enough young people to backfill all the jobs to fund the bill for all the pensions? not as far as I saw. That is bigger piece... Let's design what we want the UK to look like in twenty years, and see if the books balance, and then work out how to plug the gaps. You will be called a leftie for assuming this is immigration. Or for raising tax. Others will tell you to be more imaginative. " Blimey! That was some doing to go from a question on negative birth rates amongst the British and be able to associate it with being called a leftie, immigration, tax and alternative solutions. It felt like you have sucked up every post in the last week and regurgitated it out in go. | |||
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"The report (if I'm looking at the right one) says that (in the short run) EU immigration is a positive and non EU is a negative. (Note: Brits are also a negative. I'm not sure if non EU are improving the average loss or making it worse) However it notes this negative is down to the higher cost of education among non EU as they have more kids with them than EU (and Brits). Separate calculations looking at the whole life cycle of non eea migrants did not find a negative impact. However all in all it does suggest the new approach to immigration (the "colour blind approach") will be more costly. Especially as there is no sign of immigration reducing... Just reshaping. Does the report take account of the impact of negative birth rates amongst the indigenous British population and an ageing workforce moving into retirement without enough young people to backfill all the jobs to fund the bill for all the pensions? not as far as I saw. That is bigger piece... Let's design what we want the UK to look like in twenty years, and see if the books balance, and then work out how to plug the gaps. You will be called a leftie for assuming this is immigration. Or for raising tax. Others will tell you to be more imaginative. Blimey! That was some doing to go from a question on negative birth rates amongst the British and be able to associate it with being called a leftie, immigration, tax and alternative solutions. It felt like you have sucked up every post in the last week and regurgitated it out in go. "it's as though it's all linked. | |||
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"The report (if I'm looking at the right one) says that (in the short run) EU immigration is a positive and non EU is a negative. (Note: Brits are also a negative. I'm not sure if non EU are improving the average loss or making it worse) However it notes this negative is down to the higher cost of education among non EU as they have more kids with them than EU (and Brits). Separate calculations looking at the whole life cycle of non eea migrants did not find a negative impact. However all in all it does suggest the new approach to immigration (the "colour blind approach") will be more costly. Especially as there is no sign of immigration reducing... Just reshaping. Does the report take account of the impact of negative birth rates amongst the indigenous British population and an ageing workforce moving into retirement without enough young people to backfill all the jobs to fund the bill for all the pensions? not as far as I saw. That is bigger piece... Let's design what we want the UK to look like in twenty years, and see if the books balance, and then work out how to plug the gaps. You will be called a leftie for assuming this is immigration. Or for raising tax. Others will tell you to be more imaginative. Blimey! That was some doing to go from a question on negative birth rates amongst the British and be able to associate it with being called a leftie, immigration, tax and alternative solutions. It felt like you have sucked up every post in the last week and regurgitated it out in go. it's as though it's all linked. "Hopefully you saw how I set this up with my negative birth rate question | |||
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"So if we had remained would people in the UK been happy to change to the Euro and scrap sterling surely in is all in. Why bother asking a redundant question? We'd opted out of joining the Euro in 1992 via the Maastricht Treaty. We would never have had to join the Euro. We also had three other opt-outs making the UK unique amongst EU coutries. We weren't in the Schengen zone so weren't subject to the same free movement rules, via the 1997 Treaty of Amsterdam. We had a partial opt out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in relation to domestic labour laws, a result of concern of giving the EU the ability to change rules enabling easier strike action. We also had an opt out ability on a case by case basis relating to police and criminal justice legislation, which the UK exercised in 2013. Tell me again how the EU had full control over UK legislation and we had no soverignty.......
A"And you point are true and also what I personally did not like. We where not in or out it like sitting on the fence.. | |||
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"So if we had remained would people in the UK been happy to change to the Euro and scrap sterling surely in is all in. Why bother asking a redundant question? We'd opted out of joining the Euro in 1992 via the Maastricht Treaty. We would never have had to join the Euro. We also had three other opt-outs making the UK unique amongst EU coutries. We weren't in the Schengen zone so weren't subject to the same free movement rules, via the 1997 Treaty of Amsterdam. We had a partial opt out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in relation to domestic labour laws, a result of concern of giving the EU the ability to change rules enabling easier strike action. We also had an opt out ability on a case by case basis relating to police and criminal justice legislation, which the UK exercised in 2013. Tell me again how the EU had full control over UK legislation and we had no soverignty.......
A
And you point are true and also what I personally did not like.
We where not in or out it like sitting on the fence..
"What a weird take? We had all the benefits but less of the drawbacks! Astounded me how many people simply could not grasp this! | |||
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"Tom remembers his tipping point. The last straw was they wanted us to have low powered vacuum cleaners. That was when he realised he must vote leave. Any other reasons..." Did they want us to have lower power vacuum cleaners though Tom? Or was that just lies thrown around by the kippers? I'm pretty damn sure that what the EU was legislating for was to have more efficient motors in vacuum cleaners, and in other types of appliance, so that they would do just as good a job but cost a lot less to run. Vacuums that will suck just as good, but cost less to run? The evil European empire, forcing us to be better off? What a good job that we've left, so that we can all be poorer; but at least it'll be _British_ poorness!! | |||
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"Tom remembers his tipping point. The last straw was they wanted us to have low powered vacuum cleaners. That was when he realised he must vote leave. Any other reasons... Did they want us to have lower power vacuum cleaners though Tom? Or was that just lies thrown around by the kippers? I'm pretty damn sure that what the EU was legislating for was to have more efficient motors in vacuum cleaners, and in other types of appliance, so that they would do just as good a job but cost a lot less to run. Vacuums that will suck just as good, but cost less to run? The evil European empire, forcing us to be better off? What a good job that we've left, so that we can all be poorer; but at least it'll be _British_ poorness!! " Nobody messes with Tom's Hoover... A line was crossed | |||
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"Tom remembers his tipping point. The last straw was they wanted us to have low powered vacuum cleaners. That was when he realised he must vote leave. Any other reasons... Did they want us to have lower power vacuum cleaners though Tom? Or was that just lies thrown around by the kippers? I'm pretty damn sure that what the EU was legislating for was to have more efficient motors in vacuum cleaners, and in other types of appliance, so that they would do just as good a job but cost a lot less to run. Vacuums that will suck just as good, but cost less to run? The evil European empire, forcing us to be better off? What a good job that we've left, so that we can all be poorer; but at least it'll be _British_ poorness!! " Anything over 1600 Watts in the motor was banned. Vacuums became less efficient and cost cosumers more. Dyson actually won its case against the e.u and it'd I ept policy makers who used poor science. Ironically after the ban, flea infestations increased because powerful vacuums trapped fleas and their eggs. But less powerful ones werent as efficient. | |||
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"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to
He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong.
Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK.
Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face.
Please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic cheers"Says the author of 'moronic' | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to
He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong.
Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK.
Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face.
Please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic cheers
Says the author of 'moronic' "Evening. Any chance of an apology for the sustained personal attacks and lies? | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to
He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong.
Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK.
Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face.
Please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic cheers
Says the author of 'moronic'
Evening.
Any chance of an apology for the sustained personal attacks and lies?
"That's for you to answer | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to
He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong.
Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK.
Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face.
Please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic cheers
Says the author of 'moronic'
Evening.
Any chance of an apology for the sustained personal attacks and lies?
That's for you to answer "Any chance of an apology for the sustained personal attacks and lies? | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Let's face it, most people who voted leave did so to "stop the immigrants". Unfortunately true! Very sad! X If you believe so much in free movement. Feel free to leave your doors unlocked from now on. That way all your hard earned wealth and belongings ( possibly) can be shared with the less fortunate ( possibly ) Then let's see who's "very sad" Worst analogy ever. This makes no sense. However you do make a good point. General confusion and misunderstanding of the EU, what it does, what our role was in it, was why it was relatively easy to convince people to vote away the guarantee of their rights, their freedom of movement and relative prosperity. So. You're of the opinion that there should be total freedom of movement? No, what's this got to do with anything? So although our resources are already stretched. We'll just stretch them some more. Sell that idea to the poor sod that's be waiting months for an operation, or spent 12 hours at AandE The " worst analogy ever " as you called it is a simplification ,true. But , sometimes you need to put things simply. Yeah, so Brexit has had a catastrophic impact on the money available for the NHS. Our resources are now even more stretched, spread much thinner. Think we're on the same side of the argument here. And as I am sure you know, immigration has a net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc. Really? Evidence? Oxford Economics estimated, in a 2018 paper commissioned by the government, that immigrants overall cost the Exchequer £4.3 billion in the year 2016/17. You should try reading that report. "European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK."
you made out migrants overall make net positive effect on the economy, NHS etc.
tge other chap said overall they don't
you then correct it and say well Europeans do
you then tell him to read the report lol
seems he's right and your wrong! then you wander why brexit happened
I don't wonder why brexit happened. It's extremely clear.
Not sure what this has got to do with the other chap complaining about not wanting to read the report?
The other chap me... Was asking you to provide substance to you claims that immigrants are a net positive benefit to the UK. You changed to EU immigrants and still couldn't answer the question, asking me to read a report you were quoting, poor show from you.
You either know your facts or you don't, you seem not to
He rarely knows any facts. He knee jerks in a leftwards direction and then tries to backtrack and obfuscate when he sees he got it wrong.
Everyone else is content that overall immigrants are a net negative detriment to the UK, but just looking at EU immigrants gives a positive net benefit to the UK.
Pride will not allow him to change his mind, so stand by for another 'black is white' moment. Until he's red in the face.
Please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic cheers
Says the author of 'moronic'
Evening.
Any chance of an apology for the sustained personal attacks and lies?
"mate, you should apologies to me if anything! But leave it now ffs | |||
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