FabSwingers.com forum: Sunak's 'Tax Return'

By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?"

Not a chance

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?"

Yes he will be hounded for not paying enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, communists want everyone the same so hounding to go on

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The golden rule of HMRC, is that everyone pays the right tax.

I would imagine that the PM's accountants have made sure that he is abiding by this rule.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?"

Took his time, but he did what he said he would.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

He's a smart businessman who's become wealthy. Expect him to be envied and despised, and yes hounded to pay more tax.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

If he has paid the correct amount of tax under HMRC rules then that is that (and be must have otherwise they would not risk publishing).

What it will probably highlight is how the rules are skewed and able to be manipulated to avoid tax, especially if you have complex arrangements that can exploit loopholes.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Just to add...am I right in thinking that as a USA Green Card holder he was subject to paying tax on his international earnings in the USA?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?"

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Just to add...am I right in thinking that as a USA Green Card holder he was subject to paying tax on his international earnings in the USA? "

No idea how the US green card rules work. He did pay some tax in the US but no idea if that was the correct amount.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax? "
if you have a good accountant yea, i know a few self employed people who pay even less than 22%

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax? "

I don't follow.

Rishi paid the equivalent of 22% on all earnings.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"Just to add...am I right in thinking that as a USA Green Card holder he was subject to paying tax on his international earnings in the USA? "

You are right, he would have been required to file a tax return in the US.

It's likely that no actual payment would have been made, as he was paying UK taxes, Which would be higher than any US liability.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax? "

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

I don't follow.

Rishi paid the equivalent of 22% on all earnings."

I'm just wondering because I'm pretty sure we pay more than 22% here. Just wondering did he pay more or less tax than is normal

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"I'm just wondering because I'm pretty sure we pay more than 22% here. Just wondering did he pay more or less tax than is normal "

The internet says that the average Irish worker is paid €45,000, leading to a tax liability of €9,522, or about 21.2%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

2 men : my tax bill is smaller than yours

Wins the debate?

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"If he has paid the correct amount of tax under HMRC rules then that is that (and be must have otherwise they would not risk publishing).

What it will probably highlight is how the rules are skewed and able to be manipulated to avoid tax, especially if you have complex arrangements that can exploit loopholes."

Yes tax avoidance is perfectly legal , unlike tax evasion which can result in going to prison .

I notice most small traders are more than happy to evade tax doing ‘cash’ jobs to illegally avoid VAT and income tax , should we call them out and call the police ?

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Genuinely surprised this hasn't gained more traction. All those people calling for it for months suddenly very quiet

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

I don't follow.

Rishi paid the equivalent of 22% on all earnings.

I'm just wondering because I'm pretty sure we pay more than 22% here. Just wondering did he pay more or less tax than is normal "

When you do a tax return you pay tax on incomes and capital gains , minus and taxable expenses and losses. There are many tools available to accountants to reduce incomes and gains and increase expenses and losses , whilst staying inside the rules

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Genuinely surprised this hasn't gained more traction. All those people calling for it for months suddenly very quiet

"
do you recall which groups were calling for it?

In my head it was a distraction technique for the other tax dodging folk... Rather than ppl genuinely thinking he's on the fudge.

And anyway, this doesn't even show if he is doing anything creative.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Genuinely surprised this hasn't gained more traction. All those people calling for it for months suddenly very quiet

They are spent raging over Johnson, sore throats and anxiety kicking in at the same time.

Give it a couple of hours

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Genuinely surprised this hasn't gained more traction. All those people calling for it for months suddenly very quiet

do you recall which groups were calling for it?

In my head it was a distraction technique for the other tax dodging folk... Rather than ppl genuinely thinking he's on the fudge.

And anyway, this doesn't even show if he is doing anything creative. "

Why would Labour and Labour supporters be using it as a distraction technique?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Genuinely surprised this hasn't gained more traction. All those people calling for it for months suddenly very quiet

do you recall which groups were calling for it?

In my head it was a distraction technique for the other tax dodging folk... Rather than ppl genuinely thinking he's on the fudge.

And anyway, this doesn't even show if he is doing anything creative.

Why would Labour and Labour supporters be using it as a distraction technique?"

More likely to be Rees Mogg and co..

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By *xplicitMan
over a year ago

donegal

Unfortunately in modern day politics negativity rules, and gets results. So I would expect him to be hounded and harassed on this and anything else an opposition politician or same party rival can justify…( within their own small minds)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Genuinely surprised this hasn't gained more traction. All those people calling for it for months suddenly very quiet

do you recall which groups were calling for it?

In my head it was a distraction technique for the other tax dodging folk... Rather than ppl genuinely thinking he's on the fudge.

And anyway, this doesn't even show if he is doing anything creative.

Why would Labour and Labour supporters be using it as a distraction technique?"
I can't remember who was calling for it. I just remember thinking it was pointless and hea likely to be clean. (Or it's all in his wife's name)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

Yes he will be hounded for not paying enough "

His taxes are perfectly legal it seems.

It indicates to me that the wealthiest do pay a relatively low tax burden.

Not to you?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%."

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?"

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?"

I hear you.

I think it is appropriate if we talk in percentages.

What do we class as significantly higher?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail."

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

I hear you.

I think it is appropriate if we talk in percentages.

What do we class as significantly higher?"

The average income tax and NI liability of £32,300 PAYE is actually about 21%

£60k PAYE is 29%

£100k PAYE is 34%

Approximately £1.6m is 22% Capital gains or no capital gains, that is cash into your bank. Income.

Are those figures considerably higher tax burdens on earnings? I would say yes.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax."

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE.

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

I hear you.

I think it is appropriate if we talk in percentages.

What do we class as significantly higher?

The average income tax and NI liability of £32,300 PAYE is actually about 21%

£60k PAYE is 29%

£100k PAYE is 34%

Approximately £1.6m is 22% Capital gains or no capital gains, that is cash into your bank. Income.

Are those figures considerably higher tax burdens on earnings? I would say yes."

Did Rishi's figures include NI?

I'm not sure but if not, it's not a fair comparison.

Why are you speaking about cash in the bank? You are aware that on some of that 'income' there was no cash aren't you?

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE."

PAYE employees often get the rougher deal but you know, you dont have to be PAYE if you don't want to be.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE."

I'm not an accountant but I use an accountant. My experiences have been positive, my accountant returns me more than I pay for their services.

Try one and see what they can do for you, you might be pleasantly surprised

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE.

I'm not an accountant but I use an accountant. My experiences have been positive, my accountant returns me more than I pay for their services.

Try one and see what they can do for you, you might be pleasantly surprised

Why do you think that I do not have an accountant? Why should anyone need one except in occasional, specific circumstances?

Again, why not engage with the principle?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? Should the more well off contribute more than the less well off to improve society overall?

If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

If not, why not?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE.

I'm not an accountant but I use an accountant. My experiences have been positive, my accountant returns me more than I pay for their services.

Try one and see what they can do for you, you might be pleasantly surprised

Why do you think that I do not have an accountant? Why should anyone need one except in occasional, specific circumstances?

Again, why not engage with the principle?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? Should the more well off contribute more than the less well off to improve society overall?

If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

If not, why not?"

I do not want a system that continually punishes effort, skill and education by removing the potential of earnings.

What is it you actually want from the countries tax system, is it a Robin Hood approach?

You have never really defined your perfect end game for a tax system and you must have one, because you continually speak of taking more from high earners. What is the EasyUK tax system?

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

This doesn’t really add to this debate but it is my (post tax) two pence worth.

1. I would love to pay zero tax and retain 100% of my income and value of my assets.

2. However, I realise the state provides services and infrastructure that I make use of or benefit from and that needs to be paid for. So I need to pay tax.

3. The state also provides services and infrastructure I do not make use of but I recognise that I may indirectly benefit from that due to having a better society. So I somewhat begrudgingly pay tax for that too.

4. I recognise that as I am at the wealthier end of the spectrum, I spend a smaller proportion of my overall income on the things that are essential for life, food, energy, shelter (this last one obviously skewed by type of property but to “survive” I do not need a posh house).

5. I also recognise that generally speaking most people are inherently “good” (always bad apples at all ends of the spectrum) and therefore a more equitable and fair society tends to also be happier, more contented, with lower levels of crime. So again I somewhat begrudgingly accept I should contribute a bit more proportionately than those who are less well off or poor.

6. However, everything I have is 100% due to my hard work and ability. I inherited nothing and came from modest beginnings. I therefore expect tax to be fair and not punitive. I expect hard work to come with rewards. Hence why on the other thread I was against IHT (would at least expect a higher threshold) and do not think there should be parity between PAYE and Capital Gains or Dividend Tax (as you have risked your post tax income) and I am also against wealth taxes.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"This doesn’t really add to this debate but it is my (post tax) two pence worth.

1. I would love to pay zero tax and retain 100% of my income and value of my assets.

2. However, I realise the state provides services and infrastructure that I make use of or benefit from and that needs to be paid for. So I need to pay tax.

The above is an excellent description of a sensible attitude to taxation. I differ only on inheritance tax, but I won't derail this thread with that discussion.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"The average income tax and NI liability of £32,300 PAYE is actually about 21%

£60k PAYE is 29%

£100k PAYE is 34%"

The figures are:

£32,300 - tax £6,321.80 - ~19.5%

£60,000 - tax £16,147 - ~26.9%

£100,000 - tax £32,947 - ~33%

Figures generated by: https://www.gov.uk/estimate-income-tax

The above is for someone living in England or Wales. Scottish people pay more.

The above assumes that no pension contributions are made. If they were, that would reduce the amount of tax paid.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"This doesn’t really add to this debate but it is my (post tax) two pence worth.

1. I would love to pay zero tax and retain 100% of my income and value of my assets.

2. However, I realise the state provides services and infrastructure that I make use of or benefit from and that needs to be paid for. So I need to pay tax.

I agree with everything except point 6.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else have everything 100% due to what they have done themselves.

Every point in lives and everything making us who we are is dependent on a million events and influences that we had zero effect over.

The belief that we deserve what we get is the route of so many of our problems as a society. It leads many people to deny your other points.

We got here through hard work, therefore the poor deserve their situation because they are lazy, stupid or feckless.

The richest in society are rich through a combination of of inherited and invested wealth. So the only way for them to contribute to society through taxation to the same extent as those who are renumerated through a salary is when they realise that wealth when they sell it.

Why is the cash benefit of anything not considered income?

Perhaps you define a working lifetime over a certain number of years and your capital benefit is split over the number of years left as increased income?

Nobody earns an increase in the value of equities or property through their work. They earn what they invest, or perhaps they don't, they inherit it for nothing.

Why should your good fortune, or that of your children, if you apparently had none whatsoever, mean that your family retain a financial advantage that persists from generation to generation? Do you really believe that is not the outcome? What if they are lazy, stupid or feckless and benefit from a life of inherited ease? Should that persist?

Taking it to an extreme, which I do not advocate but use as a demonstration, if you could achieve what you have 100% yourself, why can your children not and why should your children not if others do?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"The average income tax and NI liability of £32,300 PAYE is actually about 21%

£60k PAYE is 29%

£100k PAYE is 34%

The figures are:

£32,300 - tax £6,321.80 - ~19.5%

£60,000 - tax £16,147 - ~26.9%

£100,000 - tax £32,947 - ~33%

Figures generated by: https://www.gov.uk/estimate-income-tax

The above is for someone living in England or Wales. Scottish people pay more.

The above assumes that no pension contributions are made. If they were, that would reduce the amount of tax paid."

My mistake. I worked out the percentage relative to met rather than gross pay.

Sunak still pays a lower proportion in tax than someone earning £60k and substantially less than someone earning £100k on his £1.6m annual equivalent.

Should his tax rate be compared to someone on £32,300?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Rishi Sunak also paid £65k in tax to other countries, notably the USA. This was over three years.

Due to "double taxation" rules, he was able to claim this sum back against his UK tax liability.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE.

I'm not an accountant but I use an accountant. My experiences have been positive, my accountant returns me more than I pay for their services.

Try one and see what they can do for you, you might be pleasantly surprised

Why do you think that I do not have an accountant? Why should anyone need one except in occasional, specific circumstances?

Again, why not engage with the principle?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? Should the more well off contribute more than the less well off to improve society overall?

If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

If not, why not?

I do not want a system that continually punishes effort, skill and education by removing the potential of earnings.

What is it you actually want from the countries tax system, is it a Robin Hood approach?

You have never really defined your perfect end game for a tax system and you must have one, because you continually speak of taking more from high earners. What is the EasyUK tax system?

Six points have been laid out in another thread of which I agree with five.

If you will not going to address the principle of a progressive tax system perhaps you could explain why those are not something that you can agree with?

Do you not wish to contribute to society?

Are you saying that if your accountants had been able to save you 10% or 20% less tax and you were forced to pay what someone on a high salary had to pay that you would not use your skill and education? That you are not motivated beyond money.

Is tax a punishment or a contribution to society and an acknowledgment of what you have benefited from?

I guess it's a fundamental evaluation about yourself and how you view the world.

I have no issue at all with people benefitting from their hard work and sharing those benefits with friends and family.

However, there is a limit to what anyone needs. Beyond that, there is a limit to what anyone can realistically spend. Beyond that there is a distortion to the opportunities available to those with unearned starting wealth and those with negligible wealth.

People will always have advantages. Some will use them selfishly. Some will use them for wider benefit. Most a mix of the two.

That's all fine, bit at a certain point, the financial aspect of that advantage is excessive and it benefits one group at the expense of those with none.

What is probably true is if the truly rich paid more in tax, a few hundred thousand will make no day to day difference out of millions. As a consequence many others could see a difference in taxation that they could experience or an improvement in public services that everyone could benefit from.

Would you care to respond directly now, or will you continue to avoid doing so?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"The figures are:

£32,300 - tax £6,321.80 - ~19.5%

£60,000 - tax £16,147 - ~26.9%

£100,000 - tax £32,947 - ~33%

Figures generated by: https://www.gov.uk/estimate-income-tax

The above is for someone living in England or Wales. Scottish people pay more.

The above assumes that no pension contributions are made. If they were, that would reduce the amount of tax paid."

"My mistake. I worked out the percentage relative to net rather than gross pay."

Understood.

"Sunak still pays a lower proportion in tax than someone earning £60k and substantially less than someone earning £100k on his £1.6m annual equivalent.

Should his tax rate be compared to someone on £32,300?"

Somebody asked if everyone in the UK paid 22%. I responded that most people pay less, and choose the mid-point to illustrate that. I wasn't making any other point.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"The figures are:

£32,300 - tax £6,321.80 - ~19.5%

£60,000 - tax £16,147 - ~26.9%

£100,000 - tax £32,947 - ~33%

Figures generated by: https://www.gov.uk/estimate-income-tax

The above is for someone living in England or Wales. Scottish people pay more.

The above assumes that no pension contributions are made. If they were, that would reduce the amount of tax paid.

My mistake. I worked out the percentage relative to net rather than gross pay.

Understood.

Sunak still pays a lower proportion in tax than someone earning £60k and substantially less than someone earning £100k on his £1.6m annual equivalent.

Should his tax rate be compared to someone on £32,300?

Somebody asked if everyone in the UK paid 22%. I responded that most people pay less, and choose the mid-point to illustrate that. I wasn't making any other point."

I understand that, but is it an appropriate comparison to make?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeisty OP Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"The figures are:

£32,300 - tax £6,321.80 - ~19.5%

£60,000 - tax £16,147 - ~26.9%

£100,000 - tax £32,947 - ~33%

Figures generated by: https://www.gov.uk/estimate-income-tax

The above is for someone living in England or Wales. Scottish people pay more.

The above assumes that no pension contributions are made. If they were, that would reduce the amount of tax paid.

My mistake. I worked out the percentage relative to net rather than gross pay.

Understood.

Sunak still pays a lower proportion in tax than someone earning £60k and substantially less than someone earning £100k on his £1.6m annual equivalent.

Should his tax rate be compared to someone on £32,300?

Somebody asked if everyone in the UK paid 22%. I responded that most people pay less, and choose the mid-point to illustrate that. I wasn't making any other point.

I understand that, but is it an appropriate comparison to make?"

That's you told Discretion.

Do not attempt to answer a direct question with a researched answer

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"This doesn’t really add to this debate but it is my (post tax) two pence worth.

1. I would love to pay zero tax and retain 100% of my income and value of my assets.

2. However, I realise the state provides services and infrastructure that I make use of or benefit from and that needs to be paid for. So I need to pay tax.

I agree with everything except point 6.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else have everything 100% due to what they have done themselves.

Every point in lives and everything making us who we are is dependent on a million events and influences that we had zero effect over.

The belief that we deserve what we get is the route of so many of our problems as a society. It leads many people to deny your other points.

We got here through hard work, therefore the poor deserve their situation because they are lazy, stupid or feckless.

Why is the cash benefit of anything not considered income?

Perhaps you define a working lifetime over a certain number of years and your capital benefit is split over the number of years left as increased income?

Nobody earns an increase in the value of equities or property through their work. They earn what they invest, or perhaps they don't, they inherit it for nothing.

Taking it to an extreme, which I do not advocate but use as a demonstration, if you could achieve what you have 100% yourself, why can your children not and why should your children not if others do?"

We won’t agree on point 6. You say:

"The belief that we deserve what we get is the route of so many of our problems as a society. It leads many people to deny your other points.

We got here through hard work, therefore the poor deserve their situation because they are lazy, stupid or feckless."

I am not sure if you are making a general statement or if that is aimed specifically at me. If the former then I hear your opinion. If the latter then I take issue as my points 1-5 clearly demonstrate I think the “poor” deserve to be helped for a more equitable society. I have been honest in that I would prefer to keep more of my money but accept the reasons for why.

Saying:

"Neither you nor I nor anyone else have everything 100% due to what they have done themselves."

Is a non argument. It is both impossible to quantify, prove, or disprove. It can be flipped around to explain poverty as much as it can wealth. And again, as per my first 5 points, I begrudgingly accept a higher proportional contribution through tax to support society. So I am paying my dues to a society that will have helped me in various and multiple ways to achieve what I have. That doesn’t mean I need to contribute more just because I am successful though.

As for asset value increasing. I do not believe it should be treated the same as income for tax purposes for the simple reason that these assets are purchased from post tax net income. It is a choice to invest and risk my capital. If I just spent it living the high life the only tax it would attract is VAT which is lower than IC, so why should an asset attract the same tax as IC?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"So it turns out Rishi Sunak paid just over £1m in tax for the 3 years leading up to 2022.

This equates to roughly 22% on all earnings.

Will he now be left to concentrate on the task at hand or is he going to be hounded for not laying enough?

So everyone in the UK just pays 22% tax?

Most people pay less than that.

The average UK wage is £32,300, which means a tax liability of £6,411.80, or about 19.5%.

This does answer the question.

It is not really appropriate to compare the taxes who earned so much money to someone on an average income though, is it?

Why is the tax burden of someone earning £60k or £100k significantly higher than someone receiving the equivalent of £1.6m?

They should maybe invest in an accountant it could also help them reduce their tax.

Or alternatively they could simply do nothing and moan it is not fair.

People should become better at avoiding tax?

They can do that on PAYE?

It's not about "moaning" though, is it?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

Just explain the principle rather than the detail.

Do you use the tax system correctly? Avoidance or claiming what is rightfully yours to claim??

Use a professional to help, you would use a mechanic to fix your car, people in general rarely use accountants to manage their tax.

Many, many people are on PAYE.

Again, explain the principle of reducing income tax every year by more than a percentage of so on PAYE.

I'm not an accountant but I use an accountant. My experiences have been positive, my accountant returns me more than I pay for their services.

Try one and see what they can do for you, you might be pleasantly surprised

Why do you think that I do not have an accountant? Why should anyone need one except in occasional, specific circumstances?

Again, why not engage with the principle?

Should we have a progressive tax system or not? Should the more well off contribute more than the less well off to improve society overall?

If we should, why should it only apply to some and not others?

If not, why not?

I do not want a system that continually punishes effort, skill and education by removing the potential of earnings.

What is it you actually want from the countries tax system, is it a Robin Hood approach?

You have never really defined your perfect end game for a tax system and you must have one, because you continually speak of taking more from high earners. What is the EasyUK tax system?

Six points have been laid out in another thread of which I agree with five.

If you will not going to address the principle of a progressive tax system perhaps you could explain why those are not something that you can agree with?

Do you not wish to contribute to society?

Is tax a punishment or a contribution to society and an acknowledgment of what you have benefited from?

I guess it's a fundamental evaluation about yourself and how you view the world.

I have no issue at all with people benefitting from their hard work and sharing those benefits with friends and family.

People will always have advantages. Some will use them selfishly. Some will use them for wider benefit. Most a mix of the two.

That's all fine, bit at a certain point, the financial aspect of that advantage is excessive and it benefits one group at the expense of those with none.

Would you care to respond directly now, or will you continue to avoid doing so?"

Here is my take on tax, it should come as no surprise to you…

The progressive system we have now is just and I mean just bearable.

I do not want any further taxation as I’ve mentioned on many posts the amount of tax we pay in this country is shocking.

I’m actually sick and tired of losing a huge part of my income on taxes, vat, capital gains and eventually inheritance tax. Although to be honest I’m looking at doing something to avoid that, which I’m sure you will agree with

I’m not getting services from this country for my tax £ that I expect, far from it and the thought of paying more for less is troubling.

I’m actually considering a digital nomad visa, to test the waters in terms of how I would get on living abroad. If that works out for me, operation inheritance tax kicks in and I’m out.

That is how much I do not like the aggressive amount of tax this country expects for next to nothing in return.