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"Surely the Labour front bench should have better things to do than keep starting threads on the politics forum of a swingers' website. " The Labour front bench are on here? The mental image of that orgy isn't pretty. | |||
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"It be Great the UK be the next North Korea have at it." North Korea isn't a socialist country. | |||
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"It be Great the UK be the next North Korea have at it." How easy that was lol | |||
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"No is the short answer. Socialism is not the answer to this countries problems. What we ought to have is similar to the Nordic economies, they’re not socialist in anyway shape or form, but they prioritise their spending where it’s needed. The challenge with Socialism is its image right now, Clement Attlee, arguably the greatest socialist prime minister the UK had, put the country and workers first, Socialists today are too busy fighting each other over identities which is why it’s now got a horrifically bad image. If the Socialist movement can steer itself back to the centre left, stop the infighting, eject the hard left and actually start listening to the working class, the movement may actually gain some ground here in the UK, and no one can blame the media or Tories for their own undoing in the 2019 election when the socialists were warned repeatedly about their behaviour. " When you say “start listening to working class people”, what do you mean by that? What message do working class people want other than… Job security An end to zero hours contracts Fair pay Workers rights Maternity and paternity rights Right to a reasonable work/life balance These are all core social rights that any centre/centre left movement would regard as fundamental. What else? | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle." Do I detect a whiff of envy? Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept." Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible !" They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept." Totally - lived through most of the second half of it as well. Socialist policies are at the heart of everything that has been right for ordinary people for generations. What socialist policies have failed in this country and which privatised schemes have worked for ordinary people? You must be aware that growth in the economy can only happen when the masses of ordinary working people have disposable income to spend right? Our recent history is for the wealth gap to get wider and for ordinary working people to become more and more impoverished. The future is for ordinary people to become much more empowered than they are today. | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? " No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them " Billionaires must be the devil eh??? " No idea why you would think this. But okay. " No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. " This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Totally - lived through most of the second half of it as well. Socialist policies are at the heart of everything that has been right for ordinary people for generations. What socialist policies have failed in this country and which privatised schemes have worked for ordinary people? You must be aware that growth in the economy can only happen when the masses of ordinary working people have disposable income to spend right? Our recent history is for the wealth gap to get wider and for ordinary working people to become more and more impoverished. The future is for ordinary people to become much more empowered than they are today. " They did it umpteen times in the 20th century. I keep saying this. Give me one example of a successful socialist country. Just one. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example?" Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works." Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be?" Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax. | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. " No-one disputes that. But if you have a society as we do now where people like (as a perfect example Michelle Mone) can syphon off tens of millions of pounds and divert it into offshore trusts, foreign registered yachts and a house in the Caribbean - the U.K. does not benefit. Those same tens of millions in the hands of ordinary people would have been spent in their local economy and this is how economies grow. There needs to be a socially acceptable redistribution of wealth in this country. Not out of any sense of envy, but because only ordinary working people can get the economy working again by spending disposable income locally. Socialist and left-leaning policies that put ordinary people front and centre is where this country needs to be. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be?" What do you mean by ordinary people? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be?" The NHS is still paying today , and, in certain cases well into the next two decades, for Blair and Brown waving the PFI Credit Card around. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax." The NHS, schooling and the provision of local services are socialist policies. There is no point in only looking at extremes - no-one is suggesting that Britain needs a pseudo communist state. We need socialist policies that out ordinary working people first. | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. " Of course the state has money …taxable revenues, borrowing powers, investments, assets …and you completely miss the fact that the state enables private companies to make profits; you don’t think that the nhs, education, infrastructure, regulation all play a fundamental role in generating wealth ?!?!? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax. The NHS, schooling and the provision of local services are socialist policies. There is no point in only looking at extremes - no-one is suggesting that Britain needs a pseudo communist state. We need socialist policies that out ordinary working people first." Go on then tell me how socialism will put ordinary working people first, whatever ordinary working people are? Sounds to me like you don't want any private companies, wealthy owners, hierarchical structures..... | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. No-one disputes that. But if you have a society as we do now where people like (as a perfect example Michelle Mone) can syphon off tens of millions of pounds and divert it into offshore trusts, foreign registered yachts and a house in the Caribbean - the U.K. does not benefit. Those same tens of millions in the hands of ordinary people would have been spent in their local economy and this is how economies grow. There needs to be a socially acceptable redistribution of wealth in this country. Not out of any sense of envy, but because only ordinary working people can get the economy working again by spending disposable income locally. Socialist and left-leaning policies that put ordinary people front and centre is where this country needs to be. " How much are you willing to give up to this redistribution of wealth? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people?" Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. No-one disputes that. But if you have a society as we do now where people like (as a perfect example Michelle Mone) can syphon off tens of millions of pounds and divert it into offshore trusts, foreign registered yachts and a house in the Caribbean - the U.K. does not benefit. Those same tens of millions in the hands of ordinary people would have been spent in their local economy and this is how economies grow. There needs to be a socially acceptable redistribution of wealth in this country. Not out of any sense of envy, but because only ordinary working people can get the economy working again by spending disposable income locally. Socialist and left-leaning policies that put ordinary people front and centre is where this country needs to be. " Spending disposable income??? You mean spending someone else's money. The only way to get disposable income is to work ,preferably in the private sector, pay low taxes and keep your money. The money you earned. The trouble with spending other peoples money is it eventually runs out. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax. The NHS, schooling and the provision of local services are socialist policies. There is no point in only looking at extremes - no-one is suggesting that Britain needs a pseudo communist state. We need socialist policies that out ordinary working people first. Go on then tell me how socialism will put ordinary working people first, " Socialism: A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. This is how it would put ordinary people first. " whatever ordinary working people are?" You could take it to mean people who aren't billionaires, and who don't own multinational corporations. "Sounds to me like you don't want any private companies, wealthy owners, hierarchical structures....." You've made that up, no one here has suggested that. And even if they did. What is wrong with that? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be." You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax. The NHS, schooling and the provision of local services are socialist policies. There is no point in only looking at extremes - no-one is suggesting that Britain needs a pseudo communist state. We need socialist policies that out ordinary working people first. Go on then tell me how socialism will put ordinary working people first, whatever ordinary working people are? Sounds to me like you don't want any private companies, wealthy owners, hierarchical structures....." My suggestion to you would be to ask yourself if you might be suffering from confirmation bias. Just try to put it on one side for now and think first and foremost - what makes this (or any) country tick? It is ordinary people going about their day to day life in their tens of millions. Spending money, using services and basically making the economy work. That is the focus of a socialist economy, irrespective of the nature of the employer. So what would an employer look for before investing in a particular society? Well a healthy, well educated and skilled workforce might be one thing and the state has a big say in that. They might also take a view on stable energy prices and a reliable and affordable transport network. Again, the Government has a say in that too. They might also want to know them at the customer base has disposable income and Government policies have a big say in that too. To think that Government policies only concern taxation is completely wrong. Tax is a budgeting issue for businesses whereas a wealthy customer base and a healthy and well educated workforce is a positive pull for investment. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it?" Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax. The NHS, schooling and the provision of local services are socialist policies. There is no point in only looking at extremes - no-one is suggesting that Britain needs a pseudo communist state. We need socialist policies that out ordinary working people first. Go on then tell me how socialism will put ordinary working people first, whatever ordinary working people are? Sounds to me like you don't want any private companies, wealthy owners, hierarchical structures..... My suggestion to you would be to ask yourself if you might be suffering from confirmation bias. Just try to put it on one side for now and think first and foremost - what makes this (or any) country tick? It is ordinary people going about their day to day life in their tens of millions. Spending money, using services and basically making the economy work. That is the focus of a socialist economy, irrespective of the nature of the employer. So what would an employer look for before investing in a particular society? Well a healthy, well educated and skilled workforce might be one thing and the state has a big say in that. They might also take a view on stable energy prices and a reliable and affordable transport network. Again, the Government has a say in that too. They might also want to know them at the customer base has disposable income and Government policies have a big say in that too. To think that Government policies only concern taxation is completely wrong. Tax is a budgeting issue for businesses whereas a wealthy customer base and a healthy and well educated workforce is a positive pull for investment. " Nope a socialist economy is a contradiction. All means of manufacturing are state run. The state does not make money. The economy is the private sector. Governments don't make money they spend it. The state has nothing to do with your health, that's your business and responsibility. As for education the state has no business being involved in that either, that's up to the individual and private sector. Investors invest in private companies that make money and private companies set up in countries with low corporation tax and an educated workforce. The state has no business in education because that will inevitably result in political bias in teaching. Most teachers in state schools are left leaning hence all this woke, pc, green bs. None of that crap happens in independent schools because they are purely focused on education. If they weren't their results would be poor, parents would take children away and they'd shut down. It should all be private. You want to screw it up get the government involved. | |||
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" The state has no business in education because that will inevitably result in political bias in teaching. Most teachers in state schools are left leaning hence all this woke, pc, green bs. None of that crap happens in independent schools because they are purely focused on education. If they weren't their results would be poor, parents would take children away and they'd shut down. It should all be private. You want to screw it up get the government involved. " So you're advocating for a country where only a privileged few receive an education, and it's taught by racist teachers who don't teach sciences. Sounds amazing. | |||
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"Conversely, we experience the daily disaster of privatised energy and transport systems and lament the fact that not a single privatisation experiment has benefitted ordinary people in any material way." Not a single one? I remember what the telephone system was like when it was run by the GPO. The switch to BT made a huge, and entirely beneficial change, with new equipment, more services, and lower costs. Does that not count? | |||
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"No is the short answer. Socialism is not the answer to this countries problems. What we ought to have is similar to the Nordic economies, they’re not socialist in anyway shape or form, but they prioritise their spending where it’s needed. The challenge with Socialism is its image right now, Clement Attlee, arguably the greatest socialist prime minister the UK had, put the country and workers first, Socialists today are too busy fighting each other over identities which is why it’s now got a horrifically bad image. If the Socialist movement can steer itself back to the centre left, stop the infighting, eject the hard left and actually start listening to the working class, the movement may actually gain some ground here in the UK, and no one can blame the media or Tories for their own undoing in the 2019 election when the socialists were warned repeatedly about their behaviour. When you say “start listening to working class people”, what do you mean by that? What message do working class people want other than… Job security An end to zero hours contracts Fair pay Workers rights Maternity and paternity rights Right to a reasonable work/life balance These are all core social rights that any centre/centre left movement would regard as fundamental. What else?" All of that of which Labour, or indeed any socialist, have not been doing the last 20 years hence the voting for Conservatives. What else do we, the working class want; 1) an end to the infighting currently in Labour 2) An expulsion of the hard left from the movement 3) A party that truly represents us, as what Labour used to be, it’s not done that for 30 years, it needs significant reforming. 4) To stop being patronised with the “we know best” mentality coming out of the socialist movement, something we, the working class, warned the socialists was happening and was shouted down, so we shot them down at the polls. 5) we want genuine local Labour MP’s in our area, that knows us and the area. My last socialist MP was from flipping Redhill, 50 miles away and has never been. Where was the Tory MP from? Same area and knew us all well. That’s just the tip of the iceberg of problems the movement has in the UK and why it’s lurched very hard to the right, there’s no credible opposition to them and every single time they’re being laughed at by the likes of the hard right. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output." I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? Norway and Denmark are not socialist countries and Blair was no socialist. I believe Wilson in the 60s and callaghan in the 70s were fairly left wing and that resulted in unions holding the country to ransom, 27% inflation and 98% super tax. The NHS, schooling and the provision of local services are socialist policies. There is no point in only looking at extremes - no-one is suggesting that Britain needs a pseudo communist state. We need socialist policies that out ordinary working people first. Go on then tell me how socialism will put ordinary working people first, whatever ordinary working people are? Sounds to me like you don't want any private companies, wealthy owners, hierarchical structures..... My suggestion to you would be to ask yourself if you might be suffering from confirmation bias. Just try to put it on one side for now and think first and foremost - what makes this (or any) country tick? It is ordinary people going about their day to day life in their tens of millions. Spending money, using services and basically making the economy work. That is the focus of a socialist economy, irrespective of the nature of the employer. So what would an employer look for before investing in a particular society? Well a healthy, well educated and skilled workforce might be one thing and the state has a big say in that. They might also take a view on stable energy prices and a reliable and affordable transport network. Again, the Government has a say in that too. They might also want to know them at the customer base has disposable income and Government policies have a big say in that too. To think that Government policies only concern taxation is completely wrong. Tax is a budgeting issue for businesses whereas a wealthy customer base and a healthy and well educated workforce is a positive pull for investment. Nope a socialist economy is a contradiction. All means of manufacturing are state run. The state does not make money. The economy is the private sector. Governments don't make money they spend it. The state has nothing to do with your health, that's your business and responsibility. As for education the state has no business being involved in that either, that's up to the individual and private sector. Investors invest in private companies that make money and private companies set up in countries with low corporation tax and an educated workforce. The state has no business in education because that will inevitably result in political bias in teaching. Most teachers in state schools are left leaning hence all this woke, pc, green bs. None of that crap happens in independent schools because they are purely focused on education. If they weren't their results would be poor, parents would take children away and they'd shut down. It should all be private. You want to screw it up get the government involved. " Have you ever heard of the term "poverty trap",or do you think it's just a misnomer for "lazy bastards"? | |||
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" The state has no business in education because that will inevitably result in political bias in teaching. Most teachers in state schools are left leaning hence all this woke, pc, green bs. None of that crap happens in independent schools because they are purely focused on education. If they weren't their results would be poor, parents would take children away and they'd shut down. It should all be private. You want to screw it up get the government involved. So you're advocating for a country where only a privileged few receive an education, and it's taught by racist teachers who don't teach sciences. Sounds amazing. " Ouch. I've hit a nerve. I think that little rant of yours says more about you than me. Racist teachers who don't teach science. Eh? You'd be amazed what you can afford if you prioritize. | |||
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" The state has no business in education because that will inevitably result in political bias in teaching. Most teachers in state schools are left leaning hence all this woke, pc, green bs. None of that crap happens in independent schools because they are purely focused on education. If they weren't their results would be poor, parents would take children away and they'd shut down. It should all be private. You want to screw it up get the government involved. So you're advocating for a country where only a privileged few receive an education, and it's taught by racist teachers who don't teach sciences. Sounds amazing. Ouch. I've hit a nerve. I think that little rant of yours says more about you than me. Racist teachers who don't teach science. Eh? You'd be amazed what you can afford if you prioritize. " No nerve. It wasn't a rant. I was highlighting how silly your suggestion was. Thankfully we moved away from only educating the very wealthiest people. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos." Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority." So you admit you gained off of private enterprise. Yet you condemning others that want to do the same...and those people wrong but you are the righteous one. | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority." humble brag, and knowing better 
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority. So you admit you gained off of private enterprise. Yet you condemning others that want to do the same...and those people wrong but you are the righteous one. " I am into my 6th decade. I lived, I learned. I really couldn’t give a flying fuck what others do, but I reserve the right to retain acquired experience and knowledge. How’s that lol | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority. humble brag, and knowing better
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority. So you admit you gained off of private enterprise. Yet you condemning others that want to do the same...and those people wrong but you are the righteous one. I am into my 6th decade. I lived, I learned. I really couldn’t give a flying fuck what others do, but I reserve the right to retain acquired experience and knowledge. How’s that lol" so do others in the shorter amount of time. My experiences are vastly different from yours. Difference is I not trying to set a agenda. Yet you are and claiming it's your right. Right to what again? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept. Common ownership of the means of production, democracy, equality …yeah, terrible ! They tried it during the 20th century. It never worked, unless you know of an example? Yes. Britain 1997 to 2006, Norway, Denmark, Germany. Do you know of an example of privatisation in the U.K. that has actually benefitted the ordinary people of this country? Or is it right that we have the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe as well as the highest cost per mile in public transport in the whole of the EU. Is this how it should be? What do you mean by ordinary people? Yes - you, me and probably almost everyone else in our peer group. We were born here, schooled here and work here. Some of us do well by margins above the median and others do less well by margins below the median. None of us have benefitted from privatisation. None of us have benefitted in the last 13 years of Conservative rule. We only see the gap between the richest and the poorest widen, and year on year we see those in the margins below the median fall into hard times. How can we accept the levels of homelessness and food bank use in this country? A decent socially aware Government would never permit the lower echelons of our society to get into the problems that many find themselves in. It is just not a fair or a compassionate society, and it should and could be. You will laugh at ths but statistically world wide there are fewer people in poverty than ever, thanks to capitalism. It is the only system that allows you to start at the bottom and work your way up. If western capitalism was so bad why do so many want to be part of it? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it is controlled and has social democratic principles at its heart. No-one is taking about the entire economy being state owned, we are talking about the ordinary people being the priority and not the non-don Millionaires a and billionaires who salt away their cash with absolutely no benefit to the society that they gained that benefit from. Why do you think that we have such poor productivity in this country? Really why? Could it be related to the fact that GDP is 30% lower in real terms today than it was 16 years ago in 2007? That means that there has been an effective 30% real terms cut in the wealth of each and every one of us over a 15 year period. Less money to spend by ordinary people means less consumption and less consumption means less output. I probably because we out sourced and this is a western problem not just the uk. When you scratch away you really have a big hatred for wealth and successes. World poverty has fallen from 98% 200 years ago to just 10% today. All because of capitalism. I guarantee you now socialism would and does end horribly. Norway is not socialist, nor is Denmark. Once again give me a fully socialist country that has endured and was/ is successful. You seem to think the state cares or will look after you. I don't. The state running things always goes sideways. No system is perfect but when people want hope and opportunity the footfall is always unidirectional towards the west. The only ones trying to get to China are escaping north Korea. They are trying to get go north America from south America and have for years. Why? Because south America was built by the Spanish and Portuguese. No land rights, more state control. North America built by predominantly the UK, the tight to private property, land ....socialism never works. It's purely the politics that destroy aspiring and the will to try. Yiu just said it yourself when you spoke about spending other peoples money which had been taxed. If I were rich I sure as hell wouldn't give it to krankie or sunak to piss away on the NHS. I'd invest overseas,in shares. Make it work. I think I'd know best how to invest my money not some politicos. Having set up ran and sold three successful businesses and having until 2013 & 2014 a holiday in Spain and another in France, I can assure you that I have no hatred for wealth and success. My wife and I are well into the upper margins of median earnings, but that doesn’t stop me understanding economics and what is right and what is fair. You are right in some respects with regards to the current Government being very poor custodians of the public purse, but again that could change with a shift to a form of PR that is guided by socially fair principles. I used to think that greed is good and that life was all about every man for himself, but with financial security, business success and maturity I was able to take a broader, more worldly view about what works and what doesn’t. I challenged my own biases and came to realise that the economy can only work if the ordinary people are successful in their lives and have money to spend. ergo - society must be focused on the majority and not the minority. So you admit you gained off of private enterprise. Yet you condemning others that want to do the same...and those people wrong but you are the righteous one. I am into my 6th decade. I lived, I learned. I really couldn’t give a flying fuck what others do, but I reserve the right to retain acquired experience and knowledge. How’s that lol so do others in the shorter amount of time. My experiences are vastly different from yours. Difference is I not trying to set an agenda. Yet you are and claiming it's your right. Right to what again? " Sorry but maybe the Americanism is interfering with normal communications here. I am commenting on a Swingers site and not trying to set an agenda. I have an opinion based on life lived in England, France, Spain, Norway and to some degree in the USA. I was moderately successful in business and the sun total of all that experience has led me to believe that that if you invest in and focus on ordinary people - everything else will work out just fine. From a personal and very selfish perspective, Tes I would want to keep everything I have and fuck everyone else. But I am not selfish and I can see a bigger picture. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know...." I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol" What maps? Technically your crown lays claim to more territory than anyone on the planet. So go ahead. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What maps? Technically your crown lays claim to more territory than anyone on the planet. So go ahead. " Lol yet we take in more immigrants. Than any nation. If we such a racist fascist nation what is the motivation to move here from socialistic nations ? | |||
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"Lol you telling others to accept socialism. Yet you are comfortable because of capitalism. Wow ...." Boom. Hahahaha. Well said. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What maps? Technically your crown lays claim to more territory than anyone on the planet. So go ahead. Lol yet we take in more immigrants. Than any nation. If we such a racist fascist nation what is the motivation to move here from socialistic nations ?" Exactly. And if the USA was racist there would be no one there but whites. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol" What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure ." Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …." And not forgetting Bosnia. The US just sat around and watched the genocide happening until the EU intervened and started the bombing. I think that's right anyway. | |||
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That’s as silly as conflating Capitalism with Facism  | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? " "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day." Trust me could be worse | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day." We don't have a socialist government in the UK. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK." Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime." Ever considered that your views have shifted so far to the right that you view the current government (right wing), as socialists? | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime." As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime." 
This is funny! | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen" Yup | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen Yup "Did we just agree on 2 different threads | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen" And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing." I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government." Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"? | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen Yup
Did we just agree on 2 different threads "Our differences make us both stronger and more interesting  | |||
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"As the great Margaret Thatcher said "the problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" "That was easy to say when she was busy selling off the family silver for a knock down price to fund her economic recovery and sod the long term impact that would have. The problem with Capitalism is that you eventually run out of things to sell that other people already own! | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government." Point of order re: "The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid." The level of borrowing was exacerbated by the annual and ongoing loss of c.£40bn in tax revenue caused by Brexit. | |||
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"As the great Margaret Thatcher said "the problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" "Correct. | |||
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"As the great Margaret Thatcher said "the problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" "So what’s the excuse now … | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"?" The corporation tax increase will not 'be devastating'. You are aware how corporation tax becomes payable aren't you? Immigration is of course currently high, we're in desperate need of labour. Just look at the ministers in our current governement and tell me they're all 'lefties'. We may well get back to central ground with Rishi at the helm but I doubt it. Starmer will get us closer to there. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …." Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn." If you have the opportunity, you should explore more of the world and experience life in other places. It's pretty fucking great in most places. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn." How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go!" Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true." Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say." Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. " Anywhere you want. Sri Lanka. How's that? | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. Anywhere you want. Sri Lanka. How's that?" How about Bali? | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. Anywhere you want. Sri Lanka. How's that? How about Bali?" I hear Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Afghanistan and Iran are all very nice this time of year! | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. Anywhere you want. Sri Lanka. How's that? How about Bali? I hear Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Afghanistan and Iran are all very nice this time of year!" Bali may be nice for a visit | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. Anywhere you want. Sri Lanka. How's that? How about Bali? I hear Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Afghanistan and Iran are all very nice this time of year! Bali may be nice for a visit "
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... I wouldn’t even think of arguing with an American. I have seen your maps of the world lol What's wrong with it? You need to get rid of this disdain for the USA. Europe is only free today because of the USA. Go figure . Really ? How do ? What about US interference in democratic processes and elections throughout central and South America, illegal wars, militarism and aggression. Take off your rose tinted specs …. Who do you think built western Europe after ww2? The USA. It was called the Marshall plan. As for interference once again you never mention Russia or China. How do you think the world would look today without the Anglo American model? Thin it would be a socialist paradise? Think again. Tell you what , you head east and I'll go west. Enjoy yourself. Remember once you go east of the Rhine and Danube and south of the Mediterranean you've pretty much left civilisation, with the exception of Australia,NZ and an America rebuilt Japan. Feel free to disagred and be offended. Yawn. How to insult the entire non-English speaking world in one post. Way to go! Prove me wrong. That's what liberty means, the right to say things people don't like. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean it's not true. Same applies to you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want. Other people have the right to reply. That's how it works. If you're asking to be proved wrong that the non-english speaking world isn't civilised, then I would suggest visiting some other places. Travel broadens the mind, as they say. Where? Tell me where? I await your travel advice with baited breath. Anywhere you want. Sri Lanka. How's that? How about Bali? I hear Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Afghanistan and Iran are all very nice this time of year! Bali may be nice for a visit " It really is a wonderful place with quite possibly the kindest people (as a whole) I've ever met | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"? The corporation tax increase will not 'be devastating'. You are aware how corporation tax becomes payable aren't you? Immigration is of course currently high, we're in desperate need of labour. Just look at the ministers in our current governement and tell me they're all 'lefties'. We may well get back to central ground with Rishi at the helm but I doubt it. Starmer will get us closer to there." There will be absolutely no difference at all between Sunak and Starmer. The transfer of power will be absolutely seamless and things will carry on exactly as before. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"? The corporation tax increase will not 'be devastating'. You are aware how corporation tax becomes payable aren't you? Immigration is of course currently high, we're in desperate need of labour. Just look at the ministers in our current governement and tell me they're all 'lefties'. We may well get back to central ground with Rishi at the helm but I doubt it. Starmer will get us closer to there. There will be absolutely no difference at all between Sunak and Starmer. The transfer of power will be absolutely seamless and things will carry on exactly as before." Starmer has set out his vision. It is very much left of the current PM. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"? The corporation tax increase will not 'be devastating'. You are aware how corporation tax becomes payable aren't you? Immigration is of course currently high, we're in desperate need of labour. Just look at the ministers in our current governement and tell me they're all 'lefties'. We may well get back to central ground with Rishi at the helm but I doubt it. Starmer will get us closer to there. There will be absolutely no difference at all between Sunak and Starmer. The transfer of power will be absolutely seamless and things will carry on exactly as before." Wow. Completely agree. Neither are interested in representing British people. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"? The corporation tax increase will not 'be devastating'. You are aware how corporation tax becomes payable aren't you? Immigration is of course currently high, we're in desperate need of labour. Just look at the ministers in our current governement and tell me they're all 'lefties'. We may well get back to central ground with Rishi at the helm but I doubt it. Starmer will get us closer to there. There will be absolutely no difference at all between Sunak and Starmer. The transfer of power will be absolutely seamless and things will carry on exactly as before. Starmer has set out his vision. It is very much left of the current PM." Sunak set out his vision in his leadership bid. It seems to be very different from the government's policies. These people are just middle managers. They don't care what you think. | |||
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"A mix of socialist and capitalist policies for me. I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish. How are the Nordic countries leaning these days? "I have lived under a socialist government before and it was poor. Not a lot gets done and public services were rubbish". Which is exactly what living under a Socialist government in the UK is like this very day. We don't have a socialist government in the UK. Er, yes, we do. This is by far the most left wing government this country has had in my lifetime. As someone who sits in the centre (many would say to the right of it) I can assure you this is not even close to being 'the most left wing governemnt of my lifetime'. I'd personally say this is the most right wing government I've seen And what do you consider to be "right wing" about it? The high taxes, massive public sector borrowing, the strikes, collapse in public services, uncontrolled immigration, the endless fixation with business destroying policies like net zero? None of these things are remotely right wing. I don't see high taxes, uncontrolled immigration or endless fixation with business destroying policies. The borrowing was mostly as a result of covid. Collapse in public services is left wing? Public services were a great deal better under the last Labour government. Well taxes are higher than they have been in decades. That's a fact. I work in business and have done all my life, and there is nothing that this government is doing that in any way helps business. The forthcoming corporation tax rise is going to be devastating for businesses. Immigration is higher than it has ever been. That is a fact, whether you approve of it or not. Which policies would you say are "right wing"? The corporation tax increase will not 'be devastating'. You are aware how corporation tax becomes payable aren't you? Immigration is of course currently high, we're in desperate need of labour. Just look at the ministers in our current governement and tell me they're all 'lefties'. We may well get back to central ground with Rishi at the helm but I doubt it. Starmer will get us closer to there. There will be absolutely no difference at all between Sunak and Starmer. The transfer of power will be absolutely seamless and things will carry on exactly as before. Starmer has set out his vision. It is very much left of the current PM. Sunak set out his vision in his leadership bid. It seems to be very different from the government's policies. These people are just middle managers. They don't care what you think. " Can you share what he said his vision was? | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. " ? Eh?, The NHS in a state of collapse, defence under funded, energy at high cost and big oil companies not having to pay windfall tax on huge profit a good example of your claim? | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. ? Eh?, The NHS in a state of collapse, defence under funded, energy at high cost and big oil companies not having to pay windfall tax on huge profit a good example of your claim?" Oil companies shouldn't pay tax. The shareholders do it already. The government should spend money on defence alone and nothing else. Not education or healthcare. Let the private sector, free market do it. | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy." It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. ? Eh?, The NHS in a state of collapse, defence under funded, energy at high cost and big oil companies not having to pay windfall tax on huge profit a good example of your claim? Oil companies shouldn't pay tax. The shareholders do it already. The government should spend money on defence alone and nothing else. Not education or healthcare. Let the private sector, free market do it." Can I ask, where did you go to school? I take it you did GO to school? Did mummy and daddy pay for it? No? You don't have kids and your fucking angry about having to pay for other people's kids to he educated? Move to the states, that's your kind of place. Oh but wait ..they pay taxes for public services too! Can you explain how we would be policed, have our fires put out, bins emptied, roads made, orphans looked after, streets lit....you can see where I'm going with this can't you? You don't seem to have a grasp on what it takes to run a safe society. Why not sign up for a course on it. A few decades ago you could do it for free. Then people started listening to people like you and we ended up with unis doing degrees in hand wringing and simpering at £9K a year because they want to make a profit. Then the private employers who you worship complain that there isn't anyone qualified in the stem subjects. Even Thatcher and her cronies would be ashamed of your economic ineptitude. | |||
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"The elements of socialism that we have a great. This country will never be allowed to swing further left than the centre. It's not in the interests of the billionaires and corporations who fun the whole political debacle. Do I detect a whiff of envy? No, you detect a desire for a government that works for the people, not for the corporates and billionaires that fund them Billionaires must be the devil eh??? No idea why you would think this. But okay. No they're the ones that buy things,invest,create private companies and jobs. It's called the economy. This last section shows a lack of understanding about what an economy is and how it works. Explain then. The governments job is to keep the country safe from foreign attack and guarantee our liberty, which includes creating an environment where private companies can grow and create wealth. It's the private sector that is the economy not the state. The state has no money ,the state has tax payers money and without a successful private sector you have no taxable revenue for your wonderful state services. ? Eh?, The NHS in a state of collapse, defence under funded, energy at high cost and big oil companies not having to pay windfall tax on huge profit a good example of your claim? Oil companies shouldn't pay tax. The shareholders do it already. The government should spend money on defence alone and nothing else. Not education or healthcare. Let the private sector, free market do it." You are just embarrassing yourself now. In two days you have demonstrated a complete ignorance about the very, very basics of trade deals, a total lack of understanding of taxation and how this (indeed any) country is funded and now you appear to not understand the difference between Corporation Tax and Dividend Tax. You should stop digging. | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol." What's wrong with my suggestion? | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. What's wrong with my suggestion?" Liberty? | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. What's wrong with my suggestion? Liberty? "the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views. | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. What's wrong with my suggestion? Liberty? the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views." | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. What's wrong with my suggestion? Liberty? the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
"Duh it's the definition. | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. What's wrong with my suggestion? Liberty? the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
Duh it's the definition. "I know, firstly, i wasnt asking for the definition and secondly, I wasn’t replying to you , but thanks anyway | |||
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"Some people angry with their current government. Mention liberty when everyday people try and pursue it. Yet the L word is frowned upon. " ? | |||
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"Tax should be a maximum of 10%. Anyone on less than 14k should pay nothing. Do it for a year or two and see how our country grows. Compaies will I invest, the private sector will expand, the state sec will shrink....it's a win win for liberty, profit and the economy. I'll sit back now and wait for the socialists to have a hairy. It is one thing not having any idea how a country is funded and coming onto a social media site and proving it to everyone else. Mitigating factor - at least this is an anonymous site and no-one actually knows who you are lol. What's wrong with my suggestion? Liberty? the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views."How is that different to anarchy? Are you an anarchist? Quick call the police!!! | |||
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"Hilarious. I don't like torries they too oppressive. WTF . Give me liberty or give me death. It has a great meaning. Otherwise these forums would be silent under government control." I'm genuinely interested in your point, but I can't quite understand, can you explain? | |||
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"Some people angry with their current government. Mention liberty when everyday people try and pursue it. Yet the L word is frowned upon. ?" ??? You want your personal liberty? You question it everyday. Constantly like clockwork. I am oppressed by the torries. Tell me I am wrong ? You will gloss over because as usual you will assume I am ranting. How is your personal liberty today you good ? I know I am if I have a need to protect it.You good ? Liberty wise? | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is." ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me . | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is. ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me ." It's a big shop in London. Nice building. | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is. ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me . Lol It's a big shop in London. Nice building." | |||
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"Personally, I think it is. We love and understand that women get free pre- and post-natal care is free at the point of delivery. It's a blessing that maternity care at birth is free at the point of delivery. We appreciate schooling that is free at the point of delivery up to 18 years of age. We all love our treasured NHS and are galled at how it has been treated for the last thirteen years whilst remembering with fondness how well funded and organised it was under the last Labour Government. Conversely, we experience the daily disaster of privatised energy and transport systems and lament the fact that not a single privatisation experiment has benefitted ordinary people in any material way. We are probably now all sick to death of the cronyism and corruption that we have witnessed in the last thirteen years and are equally sick of coinfected culture wars, division and ill will that has been sewn by right-wing charlatans. I'd vote for a better United Kingdom, a country of opportunity, diversity and respect - just as it used to be not that long ago." We already have socialism. Didn't the 2008 financial crisis and the PPE scandal, showed we have socialism for the rich, but not for the poor. | |||
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"Some people angry with their current government. Mention liberty when everyday people try and pursue it. Yet the L word is frowned upon. ???? You want your personal liberty? You question it everyday. Constantly like clockwork. I am oppressed by the torries. Tell me I am wrong ? You will gloss over because as usual you will assume I am ranting. How is your personal liberty today you good ? I know I am if I have a need to protect it.You good ? Liberty wise? " I’m not oppressed by the Tory’s. | |||
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"As the great Margaret Thatcher said "the problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" "The socialists don’t care when they are benefiting | |||
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"As the great Margaret Thatcher said "the problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
The socialists don’t care when everyone is benefiting "I corrected your typo there. | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know...." Like all socialists do | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... Like all socialists do" I’m not a socialist and I am always right | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... Like all socialists do I’m not a socialist and I am always right "50% wrong | |||
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"You are clearly exhibiting the "Listen to me I am right". Everyone else is wrong. I know.... Like all socialists do I’m not a socialist and I am always right
50% wrong "Oh come on, this is the politics forum, loads of people do not understand how percentages work! | |||
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"I don’t see socialism as the future. I see a more blended arrangement, with free market principals working in partnership with social justice programs. As much as we shouldn’t be ensnared by certain selfish market ideologies, we should also not be beholden to heavy social ideologies either. Our society is dependent upon certain factors to maintain cohesion amongst different strata within the UK. Therefore there needs to some flexibility within our system to accommodate certain moderate principals, whilst ensuring principals which favour certain groups are strictly controlled, to avoid damaging the overall fabric of society. Our society in the UK is governed by two simple premises, fairness and individual freedom. Many tend to see them as opposing forces. Really they feed into each other. For those who believe in individual freedoms ask yourself, is what I want fair to all? For those who believe in fairness, ask yourself, is what I want providing individual freedom for all. Ask that of yourself. " I got to social justice and a mob lynching some mother ****we came to mind. | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is. ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me ." Liberty is the freedom to go about your business unencumbered whilst remaining on the right side of the law. The laws having been made by governments that WE have elected. It's quite simple really. | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is. ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me . Liberty is the freedom to go about your business unencumbered whilst remaining on the right side of the law. The laws having been made by governments that WE have elected. It's quite simple really." Agreed. What happens when the Government some of us have elected start changing the laws with the combined impact being a slowly degrading level of liberty? | |||
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"Socialism???? Wtf? Have you read the history of the 20th century? Jesus wept." | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is. ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me . Liberty is the freedom to go about your business unencumbered whilst remaining on the right side of the law. The laws having been made by governments that WE have elected. It's quite simple really. Agreed. What happens when the Government some of us have elected start changing the laws with the combined impact being a slowly degrading level of liberty?" That's the risk you take by having a government. Usually the dawn of a new party? | |||
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"As your not making ANY grammatical sense, I can only assume you are ranting. Please write it in clear simple English. Until you do we are all nonplussed as to what the point your trying to make is. ok what is liberty to you? Is that more "grammatically" correct in your self centered mind ? Enlightened me . Liberty is the freedom to go about your business unencumbered whilst remaining on the right side of the law. The laws having been made by governments that WE have elected. It's quite simple really. Agreed. What happens when the Government some of us have elected start changing the laws with the combined impact being a slowly degrading level of liberty?" You just described in a nutshell the biggest problem with democracy, well at least in the way we practice and understand it. Democracy often ends up as majoritarian rule, and like the Republican Romans of old when the Senate elected dictators for several years in office each time round, the dictators act like them being elected means they get license to do whatever they want for that time period they're in power and that they as the winning party don't need to care about the interests of those who lost. People often say "oh, but it's democracy, you can always change your leaders with the vote every few years and put in power people who will reverse what laws they enacted that you disagree with". Laws are inherently sticky for a reason: to provide stability in constitutional rule by law that isn't just subject to the fickle winds of populist rule (which is often the most visible manner of democratic rule) and changing willy nilly according to whoever is in charge. Not to mention some laws that restrict liberty can prove to be extremely addictive to anybody in power, when they see the potential of such laws to suppress their opponents. | |||
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""The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" Winston Churchill As Friedman once said, “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”" Also Churchill: "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29701767.amp | |||
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