FabSwingers.com forum: Brexit - reasons for optimism?

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument. "

If......er......when....er.....

Nah

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument. "

They won we lost get over it! Just wait another 10/20/50 years and we might see what they won, maybe!

Sorry couldn’t resist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument. "

ATM it looks bleak, maybe a new government with a fresh approach can make it less shit, I don’t particularly rate Sunak but at least he seems to have a more grown up approach when dealing with the EU than Truss and Boris

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Reasons for optimism = someone will figure out a way to make money by advocating brejoin! Once money making opportunities are involved there will be a way.

I wonder if the UK could undo all those EU regulations, rules etc and then create chaos again by wanting to rejoin! Disaster capitalism 101. Just create another disaster to profit from!

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit?"

No.

As we said in the other thread, even if things were going in a positive direction, you wouldn't expect to see any hard evidence of that for a few years yet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit?

No.

As we said in the other thread, even if things were going in a positive direction, you wouldn't expect to see any hard evidence of that for a few years yet."

Fair enough, how many years should we wait?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit?

No.

As we said in the other thread, even if things were going in a positive direction, you wouldn't expect to see any hard evidence of that for a few years yet."

We're in agreement.

I'm interested to see what the people who still think Brexit was a good idea have to say. They seem 100% convinced that there is empirical evidence to suggest we're "loony left woke socialist Communists" if we don't buy into the brexit positivity. Just thus far, none have articulated what the evidence might be.

Hopefully someone chimes in and explains.

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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago

PDI 12-26th Nov 24

It doesn't matter how bad we think brexit is, we chucked away the best deal we could ever have had in Europe and to rejoin would be at the mercy of France and Germany (and rightly so), all the rebates, exclusions and exemptions are lost forever.

The only thing we can do is be optimistic that our politicians can crack on and make the country work with what we've got.

Personally I feel sorry for an entire generation that will suffer the consequences of something that most of them voted against.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It doesn't matter how bad we think brexit is, we chucked away the best deal we could ever have had in Europe and to rejoin would be at the mercy of France and Germany (and rightly so), all the rebates, exclusions and exemptions are lost forever.

The only thing we can do is be optimistic that our politicians can crack on and make the country work with what we've got.

Personally I feel sorry for an entire generation that will suffer the consequences of something that most of them voted against."

True, it is also a shame that the majority of those who voted to leave were the one that benefited the most from being in the EU

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

In reply to MrDiscretions comment on the previous post.

“Your productivity point is irrelevant. Our productivity is what it is, whether we are in the EU or not. As for transport costs, they aren't that high when you're transporting luxury goods, which is the only sort that makes a profit if your productivity is low. And of course there are all the services which the UK can provide, which don't need any transport at all.”

My response.

Investment has dropped as a result of Brexit which is agreed by most economists. I’m sure Reece Mogg will dig up an anti rabid free marketeer to argue that point,

Without investment our productivity will continue to fall behind other countries so it is indeed very relevant. Unit costs for items dictate whether we are competitive or not. If we don’t sell we die.

Transport costs are always relevant as they add to the prices we pay whether luxury or not.

Seeing as most people don’t buy luxury then it’s even more relevant. Container prices quadrupling on far east trades makes both imports and exports very much more expensive and reduces margin on basic goods trades.

Local markets like the EU would be easier to deal with as we could use U.K. logistics eventually if prices keep rising. So we had options. With the far east the market is controlled by a few majors who are more and more Chinese owned, where is the leverage for such a small country?

As for services a recent report stated that higher earners in banks and investment companies are slowly moving into Europe away from London. That’s not a good sign of investments in services in the U.K.

My nephew is a senior investment director for a global bank. He tells me the movement is continuing especially as the EU doesn’t have a financial services agreement with the U.K. . This gives them the excuse to draw more away from the UK. I believe this will be compounded by the investment money moving away from the U.K too which is very bad for growth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change."

Can you transfer me all your money?

Who cares, life will be over soon, can't change that fact. May as well get on with it without as much money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change.

Can you transfer me all your money?

Who cares, life will be over soon, can't change that fact. May as well get on with it without as much money. "
no I'm happy keeping it all for me and the pub

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change.

Can you transfer me all your money?

Who cares, life will be over soon, can't change that fact. May as well get on with it without as much money. no I'm happy keeping it all for me and the pub "

Lol. That's socialist, woke, commie, loony left talk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change.

Can you transfer me all your money?

Who cares, life will be over soon, can't change that fact. May as well get on with it without as much money. "

I hope we can change Brexit, there must be a better way to make it less shit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not been on the Politics forum for a while, but good to see that nothing has changed and it's the same half a dozen people (maybe they are all the same person?) droning on about the same things and just agreeing with one another.

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not been on the Politics forum for a while, but good to see that nothing has changed and it's the same half a dozen people (maybe they are all the same person?) droning on about the same things and just agreeing with one another.

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever."

And yet here you are,

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever."

I agree.

It would be nice if someone who voted for brexit could actually articulate what positives we can expect. Sadly it's not happened in the years since the referendum.

To the observer, it would appear that brexit is in fact, a huge unpolishable turd.

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument. "

Any likely benefits will take years to materialise but the likely economic loss associated until then will outweigh them. The damage done to our country has been severe. Benefits won't necessarily outweigh that, just we won't always be in the major loss territory.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument.

Is there any evidence that there will be some benefits, even if they are net losses?

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

The benefits would be to do with our long-term future which would be hard to predict as yet. CPTPP may yet herald some economic green shoots. Though from what I've seen, it would deprive us of all the 'freedoms' associtated with brexit, rendering it pointless. In addition to that, I reiterate, I believe our economic future and present, would have been better if we had remained in the EU. I also would not be in favour of CPTPP membership. I think what would be more appropriate would be a grown up relationship with the EU but Norway opposes us joining EFTA. Quite what that grown up relationship can be in those circumstances remains to be seen. Though Norway may soften their stance in the long run.

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

The same half a dozen or so are logged on virtually daily, bemoaning the Tories at every opportunity, telling us they've been in power for 13 years. They overlook the fact that, unless they're unemployed, they're in jobs that permit unbelievable levels of flexibility and opportunity to log on here incessantly. Wonder how much the boss knows?!

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

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By *riendly older leggy wifeCouple
over a year ago

london

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

So 13 years of Conservative Government has facilitated the economic conditions that allow that, right?

Don't tell me, it was all down to the Labour Government from 1997 to 2010!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

So 13 years of Conservative Government has facilitated the economic conditions that allow that, right?

Don't tell me, it was all down to the Labour Government from 1997 to 2010! "

No, myself and my family have facilitated the economic condition that allow it.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Posting during work ours, to complain about people posting during work hours.

Excellent.

Well, I'm now convinced that Brexit was a good idea. Case closed.

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

[Removed by poster at 03/02/23 16:57:24]

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Posting during work ours, to complain about people posting during work hours.

Excellent.

Well, I'm now convinced that Brexit was a good idea. Case closed.

Ha ha, good try! I finished at 3.30pm today!

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

So 13 years of Conservative Government has facilitated the economic conditions that allow that, right?

Don't tell me, it was all down to the Labour Government from 1997 to 2010!

No, myself and my family have facilitated the economic condition that allow it.

Really? How did you do that?

Do you operate in a vacuum?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Posting during work ours, to complain about people posting during work hours.

Excellent.

Well, I'm now convinced that Brexit was a good idea. Case closed.

Ha ha, good try! I finished at 3.30pm today! "

Right, so what you're saying is, people might work non-standard hours, and so we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on only having part of the information?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

So 13 years of Conservative Government has facilitated the economic conditions that allow that, right?

Don't tell me, it was all down to the Labour Government from 1997 to 2010!

No, myself and my family have facilitated the economic condition that allow it.

Really? How did you do that?

Do you operate in a vacuum? "

No, did you have a job from 1997-2010? And is your current financial situation facilitated by the tories?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Posting during work ours, to complain about people posting during work hours.

Excellent.

Well, I'm now convinced that Brexit was a good idea. Case closed.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Am I part of that half dozen? Thing is I am the boss. In fact I am the owner. Totally and utterly in charge! Free to do whatever I like and nobody can say anything. So here I am slagging our current govt (not the Tories as the current crop are a group all of their own) and brexit/leave voters who royally fucked up!

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

I had hesitation before, now, like I said on the last page, I'd still vote leave with conviction this time.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"I had hesitation before, now, like I said on the last page, I'd still vote leave with conviction this time."

*but with conviction

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"I had hesitation before, now, like I said on the last page, I'd still vote leave with conviction this time.

*but with conviction "

Excellent, but do you have any suggestions about if/when there might be some evidence of anything positive to come for Britain from Brexit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I had hesitation before, now, like I said on the last page, I'd still vote leave with conviction this time.

*but with conviction "

Fair enough , why are you optimistic things will start to improve ?

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

Like I said in the last thread, I have my reasons and explained one of the main points I had there. They seem to have worked exactly as I foreseen them to as well, possibly better, this is why I'm even more confident that I made the right decision.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Like I said in the last thread, I have my reasons and explained one of the main points I had there. They seem to have worked exactly as I foreseen them to as well, possibly better, this is why I'm even more confident that I made the right decision. "

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary "

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyway, as we know that "project fear" is now reality, what are the solid pieces of evidence that keeps the brexit believers positive? Why is this such a secret, surely if people believe that brexit will be good, there is some kind of evidence?

Anyone got anything at all?

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

This might shed some light.

Trade Internationally has actually increased 17% since Brexit, not what remainers would have you believe, according to the ONS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001hp5w?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Or is that based on "goods on current prices"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here's a reason for optimism. Brexit could be a great thing in a thousand years or so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You make the assumption that people that voted to leave did so expecting major improvements. Some folk voted on principal, the principal that unelected bodies shouldn't make laws that impact them.

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

Brexit -

Great for our Sovereignty

Disaster for our Economy

Was it ever anything else?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brexit -

Great for our Sovereignty

Disaster for our Economy

Was it ever anything else?

Ahhh sovereignty. That old chestnut.

We used to have a seat at the table. We, along with others, made laws we were all bound by. Now we're out in the cold, with no say in those laws. But we'll still have to follow those laws when engaging with the EU.

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Posting during work ours, to complain about people posting during work hours.

Excellent.

Well, I'm now convinced that Brexit was a good idea. Case closed.

Ha ha, good try! I finished at 3.30pm today!

Right, so what you're saying is, people might work non-standard hours, and so we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on only having part of the information?"

Oh, I thought you liked jumping to conclusions? On Zahawi, well before Sir Laurie's inquiry, you used phrases like 'corruption', 'dodgy behaviour' and 'so immoral and incompetent'

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

So 13 years of Conservative Government has facilitated the economic conditions that allow that, right?

Don't tell me, it was all down to the Labour Government from 1997 to 2010!

No, myself and my family have facilitated the economic condition that allow it.

Really? How did you do that?

Do you operate in a vacuum?

No, did you have a job from 1997-2010? And is your current financial situation facilitated by the tories? "

Do you operate in a vacuum? Or are you part of the economy, paying your taxes etc? Are you looking forward to 83% income tax again under Even Newer Labour?

In the first budget after the Tory election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%.

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

As you know, I can't name other profiles. But if the cap fits and all that

In fact, some might say that comes across like a hugely entitled Tory fat cat, not something I'd expect from you. People might reasonably say to a fat cat boss entertaining themselves all day on a golf course or a swinging site, how about rolling up your sleeves and lightening the burden for people you may employ? Do you allow any people you employ to patrol the forums of Internet sites all day, reprimanding Leave voters or Conservatives?

Are your employees 'free to do whatever they like and nobody can say anything'?

Some may feel it sounds very corrupt, sleazy and House of Lords-like. Why, some might go further and say it sounds like the boss is rather bullying and expects much forlock tugging! I know you're not like that, but can you see why some would form a different view?

I await a 'I don't employ anyone' type reply

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By *heshbifellaMan
over a year ago

Nantwich

"You make the assumption that people that voted to leave did so expecting major improvements. Some folk voted on principal, the principal that unelected bodies shouldn't make laws that impact them."

Hear hear!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"You make the assumption that people that voted to leave did so expecting major improvements. Some folk voted on principal, the principal that unelected bodies shouldn't make laws that impact them."

Yeah, sure some people were just confused and didn't understand how the EU works.

The question is directed at the people who think brexit is or will be positive for the UK. Still no one seems to be able to suggest any evidence that brexit will ever be anything but utterly shit for the country.

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By *queakyclean69erCouple
over a year ago

Torquay / Fleet

"Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change."

You are wasting your time friend, the remoaners will never stop

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Who cares just get on with life it will be over before you blink why waste time on something you can't change.

You are wasting your time friend, the remoaners will never stop"

How about giving us some evidence that brexit won't always be shit for the UK.

If you think brexit is going to be good for the UK. There must be something?

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By *queakyclean69erCouple
over a year ago

Torquay / Fleet

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever."

Brace yourself, the political left voting remainers are going to hound you and hunt you down

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By *queakyclean69erCouple
over a year ago

Torquay / Fleet

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Brilliant!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

Brace yourself, the political left voting remainers are going to hound you and hunt you down"

Nothing then?

Sad times when people championing brexit don't even know why they think it could be good.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

Brace yourself, the political left voting remainers are going to hound you and hunt you down

Nothing then?

Sad times when people championing brexit don't even know why they think it could be good."

They “won” you “lost” get over it! Just move on. No point keep harping on about it. What’s done is done! (oh and we really don’t like being reminded we made a fucking stupid mistake and were totally conned by the disaster capitalists).

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By *trueceltMan
over a year ago

Bristol

The only positive thing that *could have come from Brexit that I personally can see is re-investment in staff accross the country, forcing companies into investing in school / uni / college leavers and up-skill existing staff to compensate for the bottomless well of 'human resource' membership of the EU provided. It hasn't happened so far so, sadly, we can't even count re-investment in staff as a good side-effect.

I don't know if this is interesting to anyone else I have several friends who voted for Brexit and they got what they wanted from it. Their bosses have suddenly stopped taking them for granted because they can no longer get on the phone to an agency to say "those people you sent us yesterday haven't picked up the job fast enough. could you send some different ones please". They also say the now shallow pool of labour from which to choose has pushed up their wages (that was before Truss happened and totally negated it, of course). They got what they wanted from Brexit. Truly. Nothing else, except the soaring costs of things, has affected them. (I'm spitting mad beause two at least of my Brexity mates are socialists and failed to see the tearing down of the work time directive and other EU lawsset to go up on the 'red tape bonfire' as a consequence). Two of my friends are active members of a trade union, so they're not your average DM meatheads by any means.

If we're being honest the rhetoric, the soundbites, the literature, the bus, the 'celebrity' politician - none of it was aimed at those of us who take an interest in politics. It was aimed at precisely the kind of person who engages with politics every five years and had already bought into the various narratives; the UK was subsidising the membership of other nations that don't look after their economy / the big bad EU stole our inches and pints / "health and safety gone mad" / "unelected officials" / "they're ripping us off" etc. etc.

So really calling out the Brexit voters seems a little disingenuous because you won't find them here and I suspect the OP knows that.

But yeah, my friends got what they wanted from Brexit. It won't last, obviously. When it comes to the other aspects, like the relationship with our continental neighbours and with Ireland, they accept they made up their minds ages ago and will now wait to see if anything else good comes from it. They might have a long, fruitless wait.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Indeed but any short term wage gains will be offset by:

1) Devalued £ since 2016

2) Inflation caused by supply chain issues

3) The erosion of workers rights (if Tories win next GE)

4) The inevitable requirement to include freedom of movement or relaxed visa requirements with countries the UK need to secure free trade agreements with

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"You make the assumption that people that voted to leave did so expecting major improvements. Some folk voted on principal, the principal that unelected bodies shouldn't make laws that impact them."

You do know we have 800+ unelected lords in parliament and the government regularly appoints government ministers who aren’t even MPs just mates. The number was around 15 when Boris was in power.

Even the EU commissioners have to be elected by EMPs before they are given the job. They are not just appointed by the leader of the EU. Who btw is also elected by the EMPs.

Did you not look up how it all works on principal too?

The U.K. is more and more a plutocracy so we are certainly less of a democracy than the EU.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?"

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

Btw, my money works for me, I don’t work for my money

So 13 years of Conservative Government has facilitated the economic conditions that allow that, right?

Don't tell me, it was all down to the Labour Government from 1997 to 2010!

No, myself and my family have facilitated the economic condition that allow it.

Really? How did you do that?

Do you operate in a vacuum?

No, did you have a job from 1997-2010? And is your current financial situation facilitated by the tories?

Do you operate in a vacuum? Or are you part of the economy, paying your taxes etc? Are you looking forward to 83% income tax again under Even Newer Labour?

In the first budget after the Tory election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%.

Did you have a job between 1997-2010?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that."

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"The only positive thing that *could have come from Brexit that I personally can see is re-investment in staff accross the country, forcing companies into investing in school / uni / college leavers and up-skill existing staff to compensate for the bottomless well of 'human resource' membership of the EU provided. It hasn't happened so far so, sadly, we can't even count re-investment in staff as a good side-effect.

So really calling out the Brexit voters seems a little disingenuous because you won't find them here and I suspect the OP knows that.

Interesting post.

Still, we're nowhere nearer any evidence that some positives will crop up for the UK.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that."

Lol. We can but hope. Sadly it doesn't seem to have done any damage to them.

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

[Removed by poster at 04/02/23 09:26:56]

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit , "

Right up until vote week I didn't know which way to go, I was torn on things, then Cameron put a pamphlet through everyones doors at the expense of the tax payers, I've never been an angry individual, I think I manage my emotions well, however to say I seen red then would be an understatement.

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

"Brexit -

Great for our Sovereignty

Disaster for our Economy

Was it ever anything else?

Ahhh sovereignty. That old chestnut.

You're correct but is what they thought they were buying into.

How very nieve..

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

The pamphlet that layed out the government's stance on brexit?

They were legally obliged to do so. Did you want the government to break the law?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

I see, I guess getting rid of Cameron was good, unfortunately, what came next was worse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

Fair play in realising it was tax payers money in amongst the rest of the brexit collateral you were likely getting that week!!

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

I see, I guess getting rid of Cameron was good, unfortunately, what came next was worse "

How can getting rid of Cameron be good when we knew what would come next would be worse? On the day of the 1975 EEC referendum, Wilson was asked by someone in his policy unit at No 10 why he was voting in. His response was simple, "because the wrong people will get in if we lose". It rang true then and it was just as true in 2016. You would have to have been awfully naive to believe giving every far-right, and even far-left, group what it wanted in the biggest issue of the day wouldn't result in the wrong type of people getting power.

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By *iman2100Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

I see, I guess getting rid of Cameron was good, unfortunately, what came next was worse

That is a pertinent comment. You only have to look at the USA's House of Representatives to see what happens when extremes get control.

Now Marjorie Taylor Green, her of the "Jewish space lasers", "open carry of guns in Congress" "The equality act will destroy 'God's creation'" etc now sits on key Committees.

Democracy is a shit way of Governing a country when 70% of the voters don't know or care anything about how it is goverened so long as the candidate seems affable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

I see, I guess getting rid of Cameron was good, unfortunately, what came next was worse

That is my point, I think a lot of people voted for Brexit to get rid of Cameron and Osbourne

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're entitled to your reasons.

I was just interested in what evidence we have that brexit will bring anything positive to the UK.

What evidence do you have to the contrary

Have a Google and read about the impacts of brexit. It's pretty grim stuff.

Anyone got anything at all?

Brexit has singlehandedly destroyed the Conservative party, I'll put a tick in any box that does that.

Yep, I will take that as a definite benefit ,

Both campaigns had the same access to public taxpayers money.

Here is what the rules were on funding.

Both lead campaigns had a spending limit of up to £7 million, although some kinds of spending fall outside.

Both campaigns also receive benefits which will cost public money.

What assistance the campaigns can get

A grant of up to £600,000. The Electoral Commission says this can be used for certain spending including administrative costs, putting together campaign broadcasts and producing a leaflet to send out to voters.

A free mailing of that leaflet to voters. This is only for the delivery by Royal Mail, rather than dissemination online. It excludes any spending on production.

Free referendum campaign broadcasts.

A free dedicated page in an information booklet sent to every household by the Electoral Commission.

Use of certain public buildings for meetings.

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

It definitely occured, enough to make the difference? I wouldn't assume so. What I think made a bigger difference was people like me. I knew I'd vote remain because the alternative, in whatever form, was worse. Not enough of us spoke out, including me. If enough of us did volunteer and do the hard yards, we might have won. I'd like to know the figures over how many volunteers leave organisations managed to mobilise, versus remain groups. I believe leave were able to mobilise people in a way remain were not. Especially in more economically deprived areas.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"It definitely occured, enough to make the difference? I wouldn't assume so. What I think made a bigger difference was people like me. I knew I'd vote remain because the alternative, in whatever form, was worse. Not enough of us spoke out, including me. If enough of us did volunteer and do the hard yards, we might have won. I'd like to know the figures over how many volunteers leave organisations managed to mobilise, versus remain groups. I believe leave were able to mobilise people in a way remain were not. Especially in more economically deprived areas. "

The leave campaigns were much better (and illegally) funded. They didn't need volunteers.

I, like many others underestimated how many people aren't engaged enough with whats going on. I just assumed that 90% of people would see through the 'bullshit on the side of the bus' easily. In hindsight, I can see that decades of anti EU misinformation had done its work.

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

That's true, they were better campaigns. I can't say I expected the fight to be fair. It wasn't just the decades of misinformation, but the majority of the printed press were for leaving. While some will say 'most people don't read newspapers', you watch the political programmes and they'll all be represented. The leave campaigns may have needed fewer volunteers but in my experience, and that of others, they got more. Maybe nationally the picture isn't as I portray it but because of the circumstances you rightly point towards, we needed far more volunteers and they simply weren't there. I bitterly regret not getting involved. At least then I'd know I did my bit.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

This forum has got to be the most pointless exercise ever.

And yet here you are,

He is, and so am I, but not even half as often as some of the famous forum vigilantes.

Course, he'd be a 'bully' if he dared ask them not to go on the politics forum in working hours and actually get on with the job they're paid to do!

As you know, I can't name other profiles. But if the cap fits and all that

Are your employees 'free to do whatever they like and nobody can say anything'?

I await a 'I don't employ anyone' type reply

I’d hate to disappoint!

Twice I have sold a start up. Also been an investor in several. Been very lucrative for me and all the staff involved. Nowadays it is all NED roles and consultancy and keeping check on my investments.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument. "

How about liberty?

That's a good start.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument.

How about liberty?

That's a good start."

I'm not putting down - you being confused about what the EU is - as evidence that brexit will bring positives to the UK.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?"

Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?

Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen."

Haven't mentioned "benefits" anywhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?

Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen."

Or people are asking for actual Brexit benefits to counter the huge economic hit we've taken. Strange that the government isn't trumpeting all the Brexit benefits, whatever they are. You'd think they'd be shouting about the benefits at every opportunity.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?"

"Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen."

"Haven't mentioned "benefits" anywhere."

No, that's true, in this thread you've said "positives".

So here we go again. Brexit positive number one, we don't have to keep paying all those membership fees to the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?

Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen.

Haven't mentioned "benefits" anywhere.

No, that's true, in this thread you've said "positives".

So here we go again. Brexit positive number one, we don't have to keep paying all those membership fees to the EU."

But we lose a hell of a lot more money by not being in the EU. So your Brexit positive is actually a negative.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?

Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen.

Haven't mentioned "benefits" anywhere.

No, that's true, in this thread you've said "positives".

So here we go again. Brexit positive number one, we don't have to keep paying all those membership fees to the EU."

Just to recap.

"Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit?"

This is the question of the thread. You could choose to answer as something that is a positive, in context. So I would say that getting a very close look at Mike Tyson's Knuckles, is not a contextual positive of being punched in the face by him.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?"

"Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen."

"Haven't mentioned "benefits" anywhere."

"No, that's true, in this thread you've said "positives".

So here we go again. Brexit positive number one, we don't have to keep paying all those membership fees to the EU."

"Just to recap.

"Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit?"

This is the question of the thread. You could choose to answer as something that is a positive, in context."

But in the bit I quoted, you asked for positives, and rhetorically said "Nothing at all, not a bean?".

The fact is that there are plenty of positives. I agree with you that where we stand today, all of the positives are outweighed by the negatives, but that doesn't mean that the positives don't exist.

You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"So no Brexiteers have any evidence that there will be some brexit positives at some point? Nothing at all, not a bean?

Sigh. All that discussion we had in the last thread, and already we're back to "there are no benefits, not a single one".

It's almost like people don't want to hear the opposition, they just want to vent their spleen.

Haven't mentioned "benefits" anywhere.

No, that's true, in this thread you've said "positives".

So here we go again. Brexit positive number one, we don't have to keep paying all those membership fees to the EU.

Just to recap.

"Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit?"

This is the question of the thread. You could choose to answer as something that is a positive, in context.

But in the bit I quoted, you asked for positives, and rhetorically said "Nothing at all, not a bean?".

The fact is that there are plenty of positives. I agree with you that where we stand today, all of the positives are outweighed by the negatives, but that doesn't mean that the positives don't exist.

You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else."

Yawn. Well done. I shouldn't have used the word "positive". You win.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”"

This is where we get into 'sovereignty' and 'future possibilities'. There are some that genuinely believe that removing the EU bureaucracy is worth all the economic stress. Others say that the possibility of future trade deals will eventually put us in a better economic position, and it's therefore worth the stress now.

'Positives' are difficult to pin down, and they differ from person to person.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed."

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

'Positives' are difficult to pin down, and they differ from person to person."

Nearly there with the "future possibilities". Is there any evidence to suggest there will be some?

We've definitely added extra red tape and bureaucracy, so not sure this can count.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none. "

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time."

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?"

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/02/23 08:34:46]

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To continue the other thread.

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument.

How about liberty?

That's a good start."

Liberty

‘the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behaviour, or political views’

How has this changed since 2020?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *queakyclean69erCouple
over a year ago

Torquay / Fleet

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time."

Very well summed up, however I think we both know he will never stop as he has so much pent up anger

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes."

This is fine, people can think what they want. I'm not sure why you think I don't accept this. But as interesting as your post is, and I agree people see things in different frames, either for the country, society, themselves. It doesn't address the question in the OP.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Very well summed up, however I think we both know he will never stop as he has so much pent up anger"

Are you not angry about the situation you were conned into voting for?

Is there any evidence, that at some point we will find any reasons to be optimistic about brexit? Aside from of course the classic "we won, get over it" argument.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

Why do I think you don't accept that people see the world differently to you? Let me think... you've been given numerous things in the last god knows how many months of peoples own personal perceived benefits, yet here you are...

You really need to get out more.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more."

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

This thread should have made it much easier for those who still think brexit is a good idea. All I asked for was some evidence that We will find reasons to be optimistic about brexit. So far, no one has any.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways. "

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit."

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry."

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

This is just another benefit, that's not a benefit in context of inflation, overall damage to the economy, damage to British businesses, problems sourcing material, extra red tape on importing materials etc etc.

For example, people mentioned that the opportunity for joining a new economic union, would be reason to be optimistic about brexit. Is there anything that could give people a reason to think Brexit was a good idea. Anything evidence based.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yes, that's why I phrased the OP as I did. So someone could share evidence for reasons to be optimistic about brexit. Instead of the non-benefits nonsense. I've specifically tried to avoid that. But you've dragged the conversation back to it.

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'"

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP."

I agree it's not interesting. Just like this constant chopping and changing.

The answer to the OP is NO. You've been told that on numerous occasions.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP.

I agree it's not interesting. Just like this constant chopping and changing.

The answer to the OP is NO. You've been told that on numerous occasions."

I haven't chopped and changed.

And fine. No reasons to be optimistic about Brexit.

Do all the brexiteers feel that way. If not, I'd like to hear some optimism on brexit. If so, that raises an awful lot of questions.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *queakyclean69erCouple
over a year ago

Torquay / Fleet

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more."

Don’t worry and rest safe in the knowledge he will start another similar thread tomorrow and the day after and further more until the world agrees with him.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Don’t worry and rest safe in the knowledge he will start another similar thread tomorrow and the day after and further more until the world agrees with him....."

This thread is about giving you the opportunity to give us some evidence to be optimistic about brexit. For you to easily get people to agree with you.

You haven't taken me up on it. Is it safe to assume you have no evidence for any reasons for be optimistic about brexit?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP.

I agree it's not interesting. Just like this constant chopping and changing.

The answer to the OP is NO. You've been told that on numerous occasions.

I haven't chopped and changed.

And fine. No reasons to be optimistic about Brexit.

Do all the brexiteers feel that way. If not, I'd like to hear some optimism on brexit. If so, that raises an awful lot of questions. "

How would I know if all Brexit voters feel that way. What an odd question

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP.

I agree it's not interesting. Just like this constant chopping and changing.

The answer to the OP is NO. You've been told that on numerous occasions.

I haven't chopped and changed.

And fine. No reasons to be optimistic about Brexit.

Do all the brexiteers feel that way. If not, I'd like to hear some optimism on brexit. If so, that raises an awful lot of questions.

How would I know if all Brexit voters feel that way. What an odd question

That's why I started this thread, on the forum, for people to contribute to. This is how it works. As much as your welcome to post on this thread, I didn't start it specifically to ask just you your opinion.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP.

I agree it's not interesting. Just like this constant chopping and changing.

The answer to the OP is NO. You've been told that on numerous occasions.

I haven't chopped and changed.

And fine. No reasons to be optimistic about Brexit.

Do all the brexiteers feel that way. If not, I'd like to hear some optimism on brexit. If so, that raises an awful lot of questions.

How would I know if all Brexit voters feel that way. What an odd question

Of course you didn't start it to ask me specifically but you did reply to me specifically.

Maybe you could put 'I wonder if all Brexit voters feel the same way' and I wouldn't assume the question was directed towards me

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

Hence why I started the thread.

I was 'asking you' because you were suggesting my thread is pointless, and I was replying to you.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes.

You mean you started the 1000th thread on the subject

Your OP asks a question that's impossible to answer and you know it. You were to NO I the last thread and also NO in this thread.

Then you change the question until you get your desired outcome.

You really need to get out more.

Back to benefits again. None of which are benefits in context.

Context? You do know of individual context, don't you?

As I said everyone is different and will see things in different ways.

We do. Which is great. But does anyone see any evidence that we can be optimistic about brexit!

This should be incredibly easy for the brexit supporters. It doesn't get any easier. No arguments about weather a benefit is actually a benefit.

I gave you one. Higher wages in the construction industry.

Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

You just said no arguments over whether a benefit is actually a benefit

Yet here you are arguing that's not an actual benefit.

I'll refer you back to an earlier comment..

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

I have tried to make this as easy as possible. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding. Which is fine. But it's not that interesting.

I genuinely want to know that answer to the OP.

I agree it's not interesting. Just like this constant chopping and changing.

The answer to the OP is NO. You've been told that on numerous occasions.

I haven't chopped and changed.

And fine. No reasons to be optimistic about Brexit.

Do all the brexiteers feel that way. If not, I'd like to hear some optimism on brexit. If so, that raises an awful lot of questions.

How would I know if all Brexit voters feel that way. What an odd question

Of course you didn't start it to ask me specifically but you did reply to me specifically.

Maybe you could put 'I wonder if all Brexit voters feel the same way' and I wouldn't assume the question was directed towards me

Maybe you could start another thread, to critique my thread, so there is room for the brexit voters to give us some evidence for reasons to be optimistic about brexit?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened. "

Bravo.

The thread is to say I told youso, nothing more. Same as all the others.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened. "

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

Any of us who question brexit get a barrage of abuse over the years, name calling, insults, direct messages with all kinds of nonsense. So to the people who think brexit is a good idea. This is the easiest opportunity to avoid that, avoid being told their benefits aren't benefits. I want to know, what evidence they are basing their optimism on?"
so that question is more "has brexit given you the benefits you'd wanted and if so, which. If not, can you still see potential benefits in the future".

And for the record, I voted remain. I'm not trying to defend brexit. I've been called names too. But I do think there is a difference between a poor decision and a good decision that still leads to poor outcomes. We should own our decisions. We can't be too wedded to the outcome.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

[Removed by poster at 05/02/23 10:12:43]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

Any of us who question brexit get a barrage of abuse over the years, name calling, insults, direct messages with all kinds of nonsense. So to the people who think brexit is a good idea. This is the easiest opportunity to avoid that, avoid being told their benefits aren't benefits. I want to know, what evidence they are basing their optimism on?so that question is more "has brexit given you the benefits you'd wanted and if so, which. If not, can you still see potential benefits in the future".

It's not about benefits at all. It's clear brexit is catastrophic on the short term. Brexiteers now seem to think we need to look long term. Is there any evidence that things will get better, or are they going on blind hope. In which case, why do they feel the need to be abusive towards those who don't have the blind hope.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

To be fair, nobody can answer this question just like they could not tell you the benefits on the leave campaign beyond the obvious we will no longer be part of the EU and few headline mistruths to pull in the attention.

Where we are now is a slow motion game of black jack, we have 13 in our hands and we have asked the dealer for another card, it is being drawn but we don't know if it will give us 21 or nearer to 21, or bust.

So many things can happen to give us 21, the EU could fall apart under a right wing influences in Italy and France, or we cold simply bust under our own stagnation.

Only time and a bucket load of hindsight is going to answer your question

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

So many things can happen to give us 21, the EU could fall apart under a right wing influences in Italy and France, or we cold simply bust under our own stagnation.

Only time and a bucket load of hindsight is going to answer your question"

This is a good answer. So you're another one adding that there is no evidence at the moment?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

So many things can happen to give us 21, the EU could fall apart under a right wing influences in Italy and France, or we cold simply bust under our own stagnation.

Only time and a bucket load of hindsight is going to answer your question

This is a good answer. So you're another one adding that there is no evidence at the moment?"

Can't be, it was stay as is, or change to the uncertain.

The house of cards are built, will it stand or collapse is now in the hands of the future.

We need to accept nobody has a crystal ball, it is simply opinion based on bias

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will give it a go...

Given the cost of living crisis, it is useful to have more control over VAT than we used to have. Especially as VAT hits the poorer, harder.

(Will this lever be pulled, probably not. But it's still a lever brexit has created)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"Is the question being asked really "what benefits have accrued from how brexit (as it turned out)"

"Justify why you voted for brexit"

As it is possible that one could have been right to have voted brexit yet say no benefits have happened.

I wanted to avoid "benefits", because in context, there are none.

And I am personally not that interested in why people voted.

So many things can happen to give us 21, the EU could fall apart under a right wing influences in Italy and France, or we cold simply bust under our own stagnation.

Only time and a bucket load of hindsight is going to answer your question

This is a good answer. So you're another one adding that there is no evidence at the moment?

Can't be, it was stay as is, or change to the uncertain.

The house of cards are built, will it stand or collapse is now in the hands of the future.

We need to accept nobody has a crystal ball, it is simply opinion based on bias

Sure, there is no crystal ball. But there is cause and effect. Adding additional red tape to imports from the EU, will have consequences. As an example.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"I will give it a go...

Given the cost of living crisis, it is useful to have more control over VAT than we used to have. Especially as VAT hits the poorer, harder.

(Will this lever be pulled, probably not. But it's still a lever brexit has created)

Does that mean the Tories are free to increase VAT at will now?

But I get where you're going. And this is what I am interested in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will give it a go...

Given the cost of living crisis, it is useful to have more control over VAT than we used to have. Especially as VAT hits the poorer, harder.

(Will this lever be pulled, probably not. But it's still a lever brexit has created)

Does that mean the Tories are free to increase VAT at will now?

But I get where you're going. And this is what I am interested in."
there's also a load of odd rules in FS that are well intended but poorly executed. I'm sure that's the same elsewhere. The EU isn't perfect and our new autonomy should allow us to reverse laws quicker than if we'd been in the EU.

I'd also add that the immigration lever *could* be a useful short term lever, especially if we start to see unemployment.

Tbh, there is a pattern here. Brexit as a concept isnt benefit free. There are opportunities. However it doesn't matter how much you improve a cara performance, it means diddly squat of you have a toddler at the wheel who's trying to drive using the rar view mirror.

The biggest harm brexit (indirect) caused, and the biggest obstacle to brexiteerw being able to show evidence to support their decision, is that brexit enabled (backed by the public tbf) a wholesale takeover of the tory party. Any moderate brexiteer (and that's likely the majority) haa been cast aside by the hard brexiteer revolution (and some wil say that was the plan)

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

'Positives' are difficult to pin down, and they differ from person to person."

Could / Might / Possibly / etc but let’s all just believe! Sorry doesn’t cut it for me.

And apparently no longer for the majority of people in the country if polls are to be believed.

In 2016 52% of those who did vote and could vote, wanted to Leave. At the moment indicators are that 63% want to rejoin. I’d say that is a seismic shift in opinion (especially when some of the 37% who do not want to rejoin will include people who voted remain but don’t see why we would want a deal that is nowhere near as good as what we had before)!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotes OP Man
over a year ago

golden fields

"I will give it a go...

Given the cost of living crisis, it is useful to have more control over VAT than we used to have. Especially as VAT hits the poorer, harder.

(Will this lever be pulled, probably not. But it's still a lever brexit has created)

Does that mean the Tories are free to increase VAT at will now?

But I get where you're going. And this is what I am interested in.there's also a load of odd rules in FS that are well intended but poorly executed. I'm sure that's the same elsewhere. The EU isn't perfect and our new autonomy should allow us to reverse laws quicker than if we'd been in the EU.

I'd also add that the immigration lever *could* be a useful short term lever, especially if we start to see unemployment.

The EU has always provided us with a level of protection against the Tory party.

So the evidence for optimism is reliant on a government that has the interests of Britain and British people at its core?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will give it a go...

Given the cost of living crisis, it is useful to have more control over VAT than we used to have. Especially as VAT hits the poorer, harder.

(Will this lever be pulled, probably not. But it's still a lever brexit has created)

Does that mean the Tories are free to increase VAT at will now?

I'd also add that the immigration lever *could* be a useful short term lever, especially if we start to see unemployment.

The EU has always provided us with a level of protection against the Tory party.

So the evidence for optimism is reliant on a government that has the interests of Britain and British people at its core?"
imo this flavour of Tory party is a beast unto itself. The Cameron government would have been better at finding benefits. Probably not enough to convert you, but that's not what you are asking for. Maybe labour will help find benefits... And so a brexit benefit is that it caused the tory party to implode and probably hand the next GE to labour on a plate!!

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"For the benefit of pedantry...

“Are there any brexit benefits that provide a net positive impact on the UK?”

He is right though...

'You're never going to learn anything if you refuse to listen to anyone else.'

This thread was started just to say Brexit was shit. The OP has no interest in whether there are benefits/positives. I personally can't see any other reason seeing as a thread had just closed.

Honestly, if people think brexit is good, surely there must be some evidence to suggest so.

People throwing out "benefits" that in context, aren't benefits isn't what this is about.

Genuinely, if there is evidence that brexit will be good for the UK. I want to hear it.

Thus far, we've had none.

You keep changing it from 'benefit' 'positives' 'will be good', there all different things.

Something that may be one of those things to some won't necessarily be to others.

Not everyone sees the world the same as you, the sooner you accept that, the, sooner you'll stop wasting your time.

Other people reply with "benefits", I've already conceded to Captain Semantics that I shouldn't have used the word "positives". My OP has the spirit of the question.

So the people who see the world as better with the UK out of the EU. Do they have this on pure faith, or is their any evidence to backup their view?

For a start, asking me what other people think won't get you an answer. I can't speak for them.

But...

Just one example...

The building trade has higher wages. Those people may see it as a positive that they don't have wage suppression through cheap labour being imported.

You'll argue that inflation is high and cost of living is up but people don't see that. Try to convince them all you like but in all honesty, I doubt you'll succeed.

Someone else may see something else as a positive. People are largely selfish, they only care about themselves when the crunch comes."

Agree we all see the the world through our personal lens and our experience.

So as a counter point to the “building trade” point by looking at small builders and self employee builders...

1) Right now British builder are fleecing consumers. Building costs are the highest they have ever been.

2) Part of the reason is supply chain issues caused partly by the pandemic but partly (and increasingly) by Brexit.

3) Part of the reason is increased costs for fuel etc caused in part by Brexit due to a devalued £ as oil/gas are trades in $.

4) Builders have given themselves a pay raise as they are no longer being “undercut by foreigners”. However, who is to say whether the “Polish builder” was charging the correct amount for the work and the British builder is just being greedy?

5) Ironically some of these builders who are having a bumper time by charging consumers more are the same people criticising public sector workers for going on strike to get their pay increased!

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

*typos galore!