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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going?" Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there."  | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." Sorry absolutely no offence meant but that narrative is utter tosh and you have been taken in by it. Ask 10 brexiters what a successful brexit looks like and you will get 10 answers. Nobody knew what they wanted or if it was even possible. The Civil Service is there to enact the requirements of the Government of the day. Part of their remit is to undertake due diligence and impact assessments to ensure that ministerial and Cabinet decisions are taken in the full understanding of what that will mean. Just look at this extract from the super left leaning, hugely woke, EU supporting The Telegraph... “Brexit is costing the UK's economy £100bn a year as the way the split from the EU has been implemented leaves companies struggling to attract investment and hire workers. On the third anniversary of Britain leaving the bloc, the nation’s economy is 4pc smaller than it might have been according to analysis by Bloomberg Economics. Business investment in the UK has grown 19pc less than the average across G7 economies, it showed. Economists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson said: "Did the UK commit an act of economic self-harm when it voted to leave the EU in 2016? The evidence so far still suggests it did. "The main takeaway is that the rupture from the single market may have impacted the British economy faster than we, or most other forecasters, expected." | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." Yup it must all be the fault of them leftie wokies, as you say. What other reason could there possibly be for Brexit turning out to be a pile of shit? | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." What should be done to make Brexit a success? And importantly what is being prevented from happening considering the Govt have close to an 80 seat majority? Some extremists want the repealing and reforming of employment protection laws, environmental protection laws and literally everything that provides protections for ordinary people - is it stuff like that you want? | |||
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"Replying to various posts above. No negotiation is successful unless the parties believe the other party is serious. So, given that it was fairly obvious that the EU would try their best to punish the UK for leaving (in order to prevent anyone else thinking about it) we should have been preparing properly to leave from the moment the referendum results were known, if not before. As it was, our negotiating position was weak because the people negotiating didn't believe in what they were doing and didn't really want to leave. The general consensus in government and the Civil Service seems to have been to keep as aligned as possible with a view to going back (or just ignoring the issue). This has left us nearly 8 years after the referendum still hamstrung by EU rules but having not realised any opportunities there may have been to benefit. We are therefore much worse off, instead of being roughly equal to having stayed in the EU. This is, as I said, due to both the Civil Service and the lack of political will in government. So now the repealing of EU laws will be rushed in a few months, not the years we have wasted doing nothing. Notwithstanding the above, I maintain that a Europe-wide common market is a good thing - if it was still that I think we would still be members. Movement of goods, services and people should be easy within that market as it benefits most of the citizens. However, that is not what the EU had become. Other nations wanted it as a political beast, possibly to feed their greed on the pretext of keeping the peace. Others just wanted it to fund their projects. The EU parliament, courts and financial mechanisms are not necessary. There is no such thing as "EU Money" for projects, it all comes from the net contributors to the budget. The best outcome would have been for David Cameron to go asking for the small changes the general public wanted, and for the rest of the EU to listen and give him something to come back with. As it was, he went and half-heartedly chatted to them and they just laughed at him, not believing that he would hold a referendum (and if he did, not believing he would lose)." Have you ever thought about adopting the absolute contrary opinion to the opinion that you hold in order to formulate a pragmatic and reasoned point of view? Your entire argument above is based purely on an opinion that has been formed through confirmation bias. For example, your argument revolves around other people for frustrating Brexit when the people who “won” Brexit and got an 80-seat majority on the back of it have been in the driving seat for the last six years. Your assertion that “given that it was fairly obvious that the EU would try their best to punish the UK for leaving” is just not factual and just because you believed that in 2016 doesn’t mean that you should believe it now. The U.K. had a strong and committed negotiating team led by David Frost who wanted (and succeeded) in taking us away from common regulations and therefore the customs Union and the Single Market. It was this very decision that has put us now in a bad place and we still are unable to enact our border responsibilities as negotiated freely and openly by David Frost because in doing so, the economic damage would ramp up even more. I don’t know why you are itching for the bonfire of EU regulations later in the year because the result of that will simply be a catalyst for more economic harm and every credible economist has said the same thing. The regulations in question revolve around working rights, food and agriculture standards as well as environmental regulations. These are the regulations that the U.K. were instrumental in creating and willingly adopting over decades. Brexit is not what you wanted simply because it is a turd, not because of anything that anyone has done (or not done) in the last six years. It is only a matter of time until common sense replaces ideology and fantasy. I don’t think that the conversation about joining the EU should be happening anytime soon, but removing the self-imposed restrictions on trade has to happen quite quickly. We have to accept that we never held all the cards and that having a trade deal that is beneficial to us invariably means compromises in other areas. PS -As for Cameron getting crumbs he got almost everything he asked for, albeit with compromises here are there over timelines. Unfortunately, Farage and the right wing press already smelled a fight and it would have been irrelevant what he brought back. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." So you haven’t got the Brexit you voted for? | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. So you haven’t got the Brexit you voted for? " There is a distinct lack of unicorns, isn't there? | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going?" Rants raves and comedy gold. | |||
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"Smashing great job good money no undercut from imported workers less immigrants hanging around pestering on a weekend life for us great understand for others it isn't but always winners and losers." You reckon there might be any issue with the country taking huge economic damage from Brexit? Or the country lacking essential workers in eg the NHS? Or will it be sunshine and rainbows for you forever? | |||
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"Smashing great job good money no undercut from imported workers less immigrants hanging around pestering on a weekend life for us great understand for others it isn't but always winners and losers." I’m alright Jack. Fuck my neighbours and fuck my country. Or summat | |||
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"Smashing great job good money no undercut from imported workers less immigrants hanging around pestering on a weekend life for us great understand for others it isn't but always winners and losers. I’m alright Jack. Fuck my neighbours and fuck my country. Or summat " He's in the minority on here but he only answered the question according to his own affects. It's not healthy to be so angry at someone who sees it differently to you  | |||
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"Its time to move on, we left the EU that's not going to change anytime soon, all of these silly post about it are just useless. Time to grow up and move on" That would be easier if people who still try to defend the giant steaming brexit turd did not use such infantile and fantasy based arguments. Personally I don’t think we should or can move on until something is done that can salvage something remotely decent for the UK out of this turgid mess. Everybody makes mistakes or gets things wrong from time-to-time. The people with courage are those who can admit it and own it and then look for pragmatic ways to rectify their mistakes. THAT is being grown up! | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. " You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. | |||
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"Good thanks but could be better if we dumped the echr. Then we would be free. We've saved money, our fishing quota is up and we are free from eu commissioners making our laws. How's it going for you?" We've saved money by leaving the EU? Hahahahahaha | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed." I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going?" I don't know what the purpose of Brexit is or was. If it was to leave the EU then it has succeeded 75% as we still have the NI protocol to negotiate. If it was to achieve something else then 0% because there are no success criteria to meet. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? I don't know what the purpose of Brexit is or was. If it was to leave the EU then it has succeeded 75% as we still have the NI protocol to negotiate. If it was to achieve something else then 0% because there are no success criteria to meet." If the purpose of Brexit was to screw over the people of this country: great success. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? I don't know what the purpose of Brexit is or was. If it was to leave the EU then it has succeeded 75% as we still have the NI protocol to negotiate. If it was to achieve something else then 0% because there are no success criteria to meet. If the purpose of Brexit was to screw over the people of this country: great success." It may be a consequence of Brexit, but as I said, I have no idea what the real aim was. I don't believe anyone does beyond leaving the act of EU. I don't think that there was ever a plan bit if there was it was not to "purpose of Brexit was to screw over the people of this country" I don't think that you believe that either. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? I don't know what the purpose of Brexit is or was. If it was to leave the EU then it has succeeded 75% as we still have the NI protocol to negotiate. If it was to achieve something else then 0% because there are no success criteria to meet. If the purpose of Brexit was to screw over the people of this country: great success. It may be a consequence of Brexit, but as I said, I have no idea what the real aim was. I don't believe anyone does beyond leaving the act of EU. I don't think that there was ever a plan bit if there was it was not to "purpose of Brexit was to screw over the people of this country" I don't think that you believe that either." It was a pointed joke. And I agree there was likely no plan. Just watch footage of Gove & Johnson at their victory speech. They looked utterly miserable. It was clear then they neither expected nor wanted to win the Brexit vote. So I have no doubt they had no plan for what came after. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." Yeah - i agree with that ..... it sure aint as bad as the remainers said it would be ....even with covid | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. Yeah - i agree with that ..... it sure aint as bad as the remainers said it would be ....even with covid " It's been story after story of things fucked up by Brexit for years, alongside mounting economic damage. That's some serious ignoring you're doing there. V impressive. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. Yeah - i agree with that ..... it sure aint as bad as the remainers said it would be ....even with covid " I got a blue passport well happy and it dose not have EU on it | |||
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"For me Brexit is just bitting. And it will be hard wages are going up as there is no cheaper labour coming in. Yes we will all pay more for everything but if we consume less that has to be good in someway. And if wages can rise to get people off benifit and in to work or education that has to be good. Everything one talks of GDP not up but can everything grow forever. The population can't it's doubled in the UK over the last 100 years that can't just cary on. OR CAN IT?" There are only two ways that the country can support its own infrastructure. 1) Grow the economy and generate more tax revenue from the same (or even lower) taxes. 2) increase taxes. We are currently facing the highest tax burden for 70 years and we just found out that borrowing last year (2022) reached an all-time high. Recent IMF projections which are in line with OBR projections suggest that the U.K. economy will be stifled more than any other developed nation in the coming years. The OBR has suggested that Brexit is costing the economy £40 billion per year. So where are tax revenues going to come from to even maintain infrastructure around the country notwithstanding the fact that virtually all public sector workers are striking for higher salaries. | |||
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"For me Brexit is just bitting. And it will be hard wages are going up as there is no cheaper labour coming in. Yes we will all pay more for everything but if we consume less that has to be good in someway. And if wages can rise to get people off benifit and in to work or education that has to be good. Everything one talks of GDP not up but can everything grow forever. The population can't it's doubled in the UK over the last 100 years that can't just cary on. OR CAN IT? There are only two ways that the country can support its own infrastructure. 1) Grow the economy and generate more tax revenue from the same (or even lower) taxes. 2) increase taxes. We are currently facing the highest tax burden for 70 years and we just found out that borrowing last year (2022) reached an all-time high. Recent IMF projections which are in line with OBR projections suggest that the U.K. economy will be stifled more than any other developed nation in the coming years. The OBR has suggested that Brexit is costing the economy £40 billion per year. So where are tax revenues going to come from to even maintain infrastructure around the country notwithstanding the fact that virtually all public sector workers are striking for higher salaries." The third option, which is the real answer, is to spend money more efficiently. Stop the criminal waste and inefficiency and the problem is solved. | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. " On the surface this post seems very reasonable. I have visions of Harry Enfield as the Scouser saying “calm down calm down”. However, until people are prepared to actually admit that Brexit is a turd and the majority of those who voted for it made a mistake, there is no way of moving forward. A small number of people have done well out of Brexit. For some of those it will be short lives (wage rises). For the majority it has hit us in our pockets and exacerbated the impacts of the pandemic, war in Ukraine and energy prices. To be able to move on it requires people who “lost” to passively accept the hit to living standards and the apparent need by the UK govt to impose austerity 2.0 (because that £40bn a year every year reduction in tax revenues needs to be found from somewhere). We were promised sunlit uplands and brexit benefits. Where are they? If they were starting to be seen I am sure brexiters would be pointing at remainers saying “see you didn’t listen/believe us”. Where’s the £350m a week for the NHS? Back in 2016 the Remain camp made some big claims/warnings that made more moderate remainers roll their eyes. Remember Cameron and Osborne claiming leaving the EU could lead to war in Europe. We scoffed and thought “you’ve gone too far and lost the argument!” Ukraine! Don’t try and claim it isn’t connected. Russia interfered with the referendum. Putin wanted to weaken and distract the EU so he could further his own ambitions. For remainers to stop talking about the Brexit failure it needs to be a success because that is what we were promised and that is what leave voters voted for right? Or did people vote to be poorer and have reduced ability to trade, travel or live with our nearest neighbours? | |||
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"For me Brexit is just bitting. And it will be hard wages are going up as there is no cheaper labour coming in. Yes we will all pay more for everything but if we consume less that has to be good in someway. And if wages can rise to get people off benifit and in to work or education that has to be good. Everything one talks of GDP not up but can everything grow forever. The population can't it's doubled in the UK over the last 100 years that can't just cary on. OR CAN IT? There are only two ways that the country can support its own infrastructure. 1) Grow the economy and generate more tax revenue from the same (or even lower) taxes. 2) increase taxes. We are currently facing the highest tax burden for 70 years and we just found out that borrowing last year (2022) reached an all-time high. Recent IMF projections which are in line with OBR projections suggest that the U.K. economy will be stifled more than any other developed nation in the coming years. The OBR has suggested that Brexit is costing the economy £40 billion per year. So where are tax revenues going to come from to even maintain infrastructure around the country notwithstanding the fact that virtually all public sector workers are striking for higher salaries. The third option, which is the real answer, is to spend money more efficiently. Stop the criminal waste and inefficiency and the problem is solved." I agree that tens if not hundreds of £billions have been wasted by this Conservative Government. But the general principle still applies. Money for day to day infrastructure can come from one of only two ways - increased growth or increased taxes. | |||
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"For me Brexit is just bitting. And it will be hard wages are going up as there is no cheaper labour coming in. Yes we will all pay more for everything but if we consume less that has to be good in someway. And if wages can rise to get people off benifit and in to work or education that has to be good. Everything one talks of GDP not up but can everything grow forever. The population can't it's doubled in the UK over the last 100 years that can't just cary on. OR CAN IT? There are only two ways that the country can support its own infrastructure. 1) Grow the economy and generate more tax revenue from the same (or even lower) taxes. 2) increase taxes. We are currently facing the highest tax burden for 70 years and we just found out that borrowing last year (2022) reached an all-time high. Recent IMF projections which are in line with OBR projections suggest that the U.K. economy will be stifled more than any other developed nation in the coming years. The OBR has suggested that Brexit is costing the economy £40 billion per year. So where are tax revenues going to come from to even maintain infrastructure around the country notwithstanding the fact that virtually all public sector workers are striking for higher salaries. The third option, which is the real answer, is to spend money more efficiently. Stop the criminal waste and inefficiency and the problem is solved." The only reason the UK has the government it does is because of Boris “get brexit done” Johnski the Russian shill. The most corrupt self serving thieving govt in history. | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about?" I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership. | |||
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"Good thanks but could be better if we dumped the echr. Then we would be free. We've saved money, our fishing quota is up and we are free from eu commissioners making our laws. How's it going for you?" Leave the ECHR?? Are you blaming them for the Brexit turd? | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going?" I think it is too early to tell. there were always going to be problems but hopefully we can negotiate with the EU to simplify some of the trade barriers, we may need to ban some imports to make the EU negotiate seriously | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? I think it is too early to tell. there were always going to be problems but hopefully we can negotiate with the EU to simplify some of the trade barriers, we may need to ban some imports to make the EU negotiate seriously " I vote for banning the Eurovision Song Contest! | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? I think it is too early to tell. there were always going to be problems but hopefully we can negotiate with the EU to simplify some of the trade barriers, we may need to ban some imports to make the EU negotiate seriously I vote for banning the Eurovision Song Contest!" seconded | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." Lolz. There are people out there who think this! That people who voted against the brexit clusterfuck, are at fault for the brexit clusterfuck. | |||
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"I believe that those that voted "Leave", voted for change. A change that seemed better than the status quo. Unfortunately that change is far from what they were expecting. " Why? They were told exactly what the impacts of leaving the EU would be. Anyone voting leave and pretending to be surprised at the fucking mess it created, is being disingenuous, in my opinion. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. Lolz. There are people out there who think this! That people who voted against the brexit clusterfuck, are at fault for the brexit clusterfuck." Logic. Innit. | |||
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"I believe that those that voted "Leave", voted for change. A change that seemed better than the status quo. Unfortunately that change is far from what they were expecting. Why? They were told exactly what the impacts of leaving the EU would be. Anyone voting leave and pretending to be surprised at the fucking mess it created, is being disingenuous, in my opinion. " Do you think that everyone took in the detailed arguments for and against? Or voted on straplines and emotions alone? | |||
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"I believe that those that voted "Leave", voted for change. A change that seemed better than the status quo. Unfortunately that change is far from what they were expecting. Why? They were told exactly what the impacts of leaving the EU would be. Anyone voting leave and pretending to be surprised at the fucking mess it created, is being disingenuous, in my opinion. Do you think that everyone took in the detailed arguments for and against? Or voted on straplines and emotions alone?" No, sure plenty of people believed the metaphorical 'bullshit on the side of the bus' headlines. But surely they must have been aware of the counter arguments detailing why it was bullshit? Even if they labelled it "project fear". | |||
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"I believe that those that voted "Leave", voted for change. A change that seemed better than the status quo. Unfortunately that change is far from what they were expecting. Why? They were told exactly what the impacts of leaving the EU would be. Anyone voting leave and pretending to be surprised at the fucking mess it created, is being disingenuous, in my opinion. Do you think that everyone took in the detailed arguments for and against? Or voted on straplines and emotions alone? No, sure plenty of people believed the metaphorical 'bullshit on the side of the bus' headlines. But surely they must have been aware of the counter arguments detailing why it was bullshit? Even if they labelled it "project fear"." A significant number of people voted leave based on one reason alone...to stick to Cameron and Osborne who wanted to Remain but represented the “establishment” and had imposed austerity. | |||
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"I believe that those that voted "Leave", voted for change. A change that seemed better than the status quo. Unfortunately that change is far from what they were expecting. Why? They were told exactly what the impacts of leaving the EU would be. Anyone voting leave and pretending to be surprised at the fucking mess it created, is being disingenuous, in my opinion. Do you think that everyone took in the detailed arguments for and against? Or voted on straplines and emotions alone? No, sure plenty of people believed the metaphorical 'bullshit on the side of the bus' headlines. But surely they must have been aware of the counter arguments detailing why it was bullshit? Even if they labelled it "project fear". A significant number of people voted leave based on one reason alone...to stick to Cameron and Osborne who wanted to Remain but represented the “establishment” and had imposed austerity." *Stick it to Cameron | |||
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"Smashing great job good money no undercut from imported workers less immigrants hanging around pestering on a weekend life for us great understand for others it isn't but always winners and losers. I’m alright Jack. Fuck my neighbours and fuck my country. Or summat " yep that's correct why should I care about you I'm sure you've never worried about me so yes I'm alright jack.im sure the referendum said do you want out of the EU nothing about ask everyone then come back when you've all agreed. | |||
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"Smashing great job good money no undercut from imported workers less immigrants hanging around pestering on a weekend life for us great understand for others it isn't but always winners and losers. I’m alright Jack. Fuck my neighbours and fuck my country. Or summat yep that's correct why should I care about you I'm sure you've never worried about me so yes I'm alright jack.im sure the referendum said do you want out of the EU nothing about ask everyone then come back when you've all agreed." This country is getting more and more like the US. | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership." I voted to leave to restricted the free movement of people. Cheep foren Labour keeping wages down. But I also new it would get much worse befor it gets better. I would like to hope if wages go up it will pay to work not live on benefits. Some need help and should get a better deal. The rest need to be educated and offered options of working to make there lives better. But we need to be harder first | |||
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"Smashing great job good money no undercut from imported workers less immigrants hanging around pestering on a weekend life for us great understand for others it isn't but always winners and losers. I’m alright Jack. Fuck my neighbours and fuck my country. Or summat yep that's correct why should I care about you I'm sure you've never worried about me so yes I'm alright jack.im sure the referendum said do you want out of the EU nothing about ask everyone then come back when you've all agreed." So you knowingly voted for this shit show? | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership. I voted to leave to restricted the free movement of people. Cheep foren Labour keeping wages down. But I also new it would get much worse befor it gets better. I would like to hope if wages go up it will pay to work not live on benefits. Some need help and should get a better deal. The rest need to be educated and offered options of working to make there lives better. But we need to be harder first" Fair enough, when do you think it will start to get better? Do you think the country can survive and thrive without foreign labour? | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership. I voted to leave to restricted the free movement of people. Cheep foren Labour keeping wages down. But I also new it would get much worse befor it gets better. I would like to hope if wages go up it will pay to work not live on benefits. Some need help and should get a better deal. The rest need to be educated and offered options of working to make there lives better. But we need to be harder first Fair enough, when do you think it will start to get better? Do you think the country can survive and thrive without foreign labour? " Certain industries are unable to survive hospitality for example pub's, restaurants and hotels are running on skeleton staffing levels. | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership. I voted to leave to restricted the free movement of people. Cheep foren Labour keeping wages down. But I also new it would get much worse befor it gets better. I would like to hope if wages go up it will pay to work not live on benefits. Some need help and should get a better deal. The rest need to be educated and offered options of working to make there lives better. But we need to be harder first Fair enough, when do you think it will start to get better? Do you think the country can survive and thrive without foreign labour? " I'd like to hope so as in the last 100 years the uk population has jumped from 41 million to 67.5 million and in 1822 was around 10 million. So for me it's about can this island handel perpetually growth we will soon me at 100 million and we think the M25 and global warming is bad now the math just will not stack up. I would not say I was green but can see problems with constant growth. | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership. I voted to leave to restricted the free movement of people. Cheep foren Labour keeping wages down. But I also new it would get much worse befor it gets better. I would like to hope if wages go up it will pay to work not live on benefits. Some need help and should get a better deal. The rest need to be educated and offered options of working to make there lives better. But we need to be harder first Fair enough, when do you think it will start to get better? Do you think the country can survive and thrive without foreign labour? Certain industries are unable to survive hospitality for example pub's, restaurants and hotels are running on skeleton staffing levels. " Can I ask how often did your parents use hospitality like you do now and was it all imported Labour. | |||
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"Whether or not Brexit is a mistake remains to be seen as things do take a while to materialise but its not a travesty as there's other countries outside the EU that seem to do well" Does it really remain to be seen? So far it's a huge shit sandwich, exactly as predicted. And all signs point to that continuing. | |||
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"Well I don't think constantly going on about how much of a failure it is, isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done unless you can think of a way to persuade the EU to let us come back cap in hand and eat humble pie? Some constructive comments about how to get out of this mess with a reasoned discussion is far more preferred than finger pointing and name calling. Fact is what's done is done the Tory party are far too stubborn and arrogant to admit that it's a complete fucking mess. Labour realise that if they get in any deal brokered would leave us pretty much bottom of the EU pile. You're wasting your time. I've been saying this for at least 2 years, nothings changed. I would say pay to join EFTA. Suck up having no say over the regulations and allow companies to get back to reading without added bureaucracy. Over time, as a large economy and with some pragmatism we may still be able to world some unofficial influence. What constructive ideas do you have, as you do post on the threads that you complain about? I've said on numerous occasions we should be doing what we can to join the common market. I'd be more than happy to have freedom of movement for goods and people. If it costs, it costs. Brexit already costs more than our EU membership. I voted to leave to restricted the free movement of people. Cheep foren Labour keeping wages down. But I also new it would get much worse befor it gets better. I would like to hope if wages go up it will pay to work not live on benefits. Some need help and should get a better deal. The rest need to be educated and offered options of working to make there lives better. But we need to be harder first" We need to be harder first? So... viagra in the tap water? | |||
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"Whether or not Brexit is a mistake remains to be seen as things do take a while to materialise but its not a travesty as there's other countries outside the EU that seem to do well Does it really remain to be seen? So far it's a huge shit sandwich, exactly as predicted. And all signs point to that continuing. " give it 5 to 10 years and we see if it was worth it as within the 3 years that we left, a lots happen with the pandemic and lockdowns as well as the war in Ukraine which pushed up energy prices, its kinda hard to tell if Brexit on its own is the reason why this the country in such a dire state | |||
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"Whether or not Brexit is a mistake remains to be seen as things do take a while to materialise but its not a travesty as there's other countries outside the EU that seem to do well Does it really remain to be seen? So far it's a huge shit sandwich, exactly as predicted. And all signs point to that continuing. give it 5 to 10 years and we see if it was worth it as within the 3 years that we left, a lots happen with the pandemic and lockdowns as well as the war in Ukraine which pushed up energy prices, its kinda hard to tell if Brexit on its own is the reason why this the country in such a dire state" Do you know what the plan is to deliver on Brexit? How can anyone know how long we do have to wait if nobody knows what the plan is? Jacob Rees-Mogg actually said about 50 years to expect any benefit. Convenient isn't it? Just wait a couple of generations... | |||
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"Whether or not Brexit is a mistake remains to be seen as things do take a while to materialise but its not a travesty as there's other countries outside the EU that seem to do well Does it really remain to be seen? So far it's a huge shit sandwich, exactly as predicted. And all signs point to that continuing. give it 5 to 10 years and we see if it was worth it as within the 3 years that we left, a lots happen with the pandemic and lockdowns as well as the war in Ukraine which pushed up energy prices, its kinda hard to tell if Brexit on its own is the reason why this the country in such a dire state Do you know what the plan is to deliver on Brexit? How can anyone know how long we do have to wait if nobody knows what the plan is? Jacob Rees-Mogg actually said about 50 years to expect any benefit. Convenient isn't it? Just wait a couple of generations..." We just have to wait 1 more year to see the true benefits of Brexit. And then, at that point, we will have to wait just 1 more year. And then... you get the picture. | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left?" Nobody said that rejoining the EU is a good idea. We will not get the same deal and any negotiations will take years anyway. The question still stands though. What is the plan for Brexit? What is it that we are waiting for to get a result from? | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left?" Don't worry, Fab is packed full of people who still think brexit is a good idea. | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left?" I voted remain and think leaving was just plain dumb. Leaving cost my business a fortune and we moved jobs abroad so first hand experience. The issue now is we don’t get the same deal. We are a much weaker economy so less attractive to the existing members. Our anti EU rhetoric from large parts of the right wing mob of a media is not conducive to them wanting all our troublesome behaviour such as Farage and his protests. They just want to get on and be doing well without the nonsense of blue passports and some fantasy of sovereignty. So I think yes I’d love us to be back but in reality it’s years off and the very best we could do is customs union without a say in the rule book. What a mess to put ourselves in. Thanks Boris and Co. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there." Oh brace yourself for a wrath of comments from remoaners who are still having tantrums over their loss in 2016! | |||
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"Its time to move on, we left the EU that's not going to change anytime soon, all of these silly post about it are just useless. Time to grow up and move on" The petulant remoaners will never move on..... | |||
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"For me Brexit is just bitting. And it will be hard wages are going up as there is no cheaper labour coming in. Yes we will all pay more for everything but if we consume less that has to be good in someway. And if wages can rise to get people off benifit and in to work or education that has to be good. Everything one talks of GDP not up but can everything grow forever. The population can't it's doubled in the UK over the last 100 years that can't just cary on. OR CAN IT? There are only two ways that the country can support its own infrastructure. 1) Grow the economy and generate more tax revenue from the same (or even lower) taxes. 2) increase taxes. We are currently facing the highest tax burden for 70 years and we just found out that borrowing last year (2022) reached an all-time high. Recent IMF projections which are in line with OBR projections suggest that the U.K. economy will be stifled more than any other developed nation in the coming years. The OBR has suggested that Brexit is costing the economy £40 billion per year. So where are tax revenues going to come from to even maintain infrastructure around the country notwithstanding the fact that virtually all public sector workers are striking for higher salaries. The third option, which is the real answer, is to spend money more efficiently. Stop the criminal waste and inefficiency and the problem is solved. The only reason the UK has the government it does is because of Boris “get brexit done” Johnski the Russian shill. The most corrupt self serving thieving govt in history." Or maybe the country didn’t want Corbyn and a labour government anywhere near No10...... | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left?" You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left? You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way " In very open to being convinced. Hit me with some evidence that Brexit was a good idea and let's go! | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left? You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way " Do you think only socialists wanted to remain   | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. Oh brace yourself for a wrath of comments from remoaners who are still having tantrums over their loss in 2016! " Tell us what the plan is that Whitehall and the Civil service is "thwarting". If there is no plan, then that's really not a convincing argument. What is the plan for benefitting from Brexit? Over to you. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. Oh brace yourself for a wrath of comments from remoaners who are still having tantrums over their loss in 2016! Tell us what the plan is that Whitehall and the Civil service is "thwarting". If there is no plan, then that's really not a convincing argument. What is the plan for benefitting from Brexit? Over to you." You lost get over it  | |||
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"Infantile footballisation of politics. “We won you lost get over it”. What exactly did leave voters “win” besides a narrow margin in the votes in the referendum? The government appointed Jacob Reece-Mogg as Minister for Brexit Benefits. He and his team could not identify one tangible provable benefit in all his time in office. So now the job no longer exists! The UK is economically fucked. The only major economy in the world to not recover to pre-pandemic levels. Why? Brexit impact starting to be felt. Yeah you “won” and your prize is...a giant steaming turd. Well done. Sloooooooow handclap!" It's easier to spout meaningless shite and try to insult people than it is to defend the decision to vote to leave the EU. | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left? You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way Do you think only socialists wanted to remain "I never said that | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left? You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way " Brexit is a turd, tell us how we can make it less shit? | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left? You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way Do you think only socialists wanted to remain
I never said that"Come on! Give us some reasons to get behind brexit. Aside from "we won", because aside from voting on the same side as more people, you appear to have won fuck all. People who don't like brexit, don't like it because it's shit for the country and shit for British people. Not because we voted on the same side as slightly less people. So if you want people to stop discussing the impact of brexit (or as you call it "moaning") give us some positives? | |||
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I'm looking forward to that, save me a small fortune in exchange fees.
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"I have a Brexit benefit!! When we rejoin the EU, we will drop the £ and take the €
I'm looking forward to that, save me a small fortune in exchange fees.
"Talking about the euro, the pound is currently trading at 1.12,  | |||
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"I have a Brexit benefit!! When we rejoin the EU, we will drop the £ and take the €
I'm looking forward to that, save me a small fortune in exchange fees.
Talking about the euro, the pound is currently trading at 1.12, "We are not all BELIEVING enough! We need that outpouring of positive energy to influence the economy and drive up the currency exchange rates in favour of the £. | |||
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"Ok so from the sound of things, most of you don't like Brexit and think its a disaster, however would anyone want to vote to rejoin the EU knowing that we will not get the same arrangements we had before the UK left? You will never convince the socialist remoaners! They still dream about 52 - 48 going the other way Do you think only socialists wanted to remain
I never said that
Come on! Give us some reasons to get behind brexit. Aside from "we won", because aside from voting on the same side as more people, you appear to have won fuck all.
People who don't like brexit, don't like it because it's shit for the country and shit for British people. Not because we voted on the same side as slightly less people.
So if you want people to stop discussing the impact of brexit (or as you call it "moaning") give us some positives?"Still waiting! It might just be me but I am not getting the impression that any of these leave voters and brexiters have actually got any tangible benefits or positives they can share with us! Come on brexiters, get polishing that turd! | |||
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"Still waiting! It might just be me but I am not getting the impression that any of these leave voters and brexiters have actually got any tangible benefits or positives they can share with us! Come on brexiters, get polishing that turd!" We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. You're never going to get a sensible discussion here because some people have already made their minds up and they won't allow anyone to have a different opinion. | |||
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"Still waiting! It might just be me but I am not getting the impression that any of these leave voters and brexiters have actually got any tangible benefits or positives they can share with us! Come on brexiters, get polishing that turd! We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. You're never going to get a sensible discussion here because some people have already made their minds up and they won't allow anyone to have a different opinion." But surely the people who are still cheering on brexit could give us some reasons for optimism? The comment was "You will never convince the socialist remoaners". I'm 100% open to being convinced that brexit is a good idea. Thus far there is no evidence to suggest anything positive. If someone has something for us to go on, I'm all ears. So far the best effort has been "you lost, we won". Which lets be honest, is nonsense. | |||
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"Still waiting! It might just be me but I am not getting the impression that any of these leave voters and brexiters have actually got any tangible benefits or positives they can share with us! Come on brexiters, get polishing that turd! We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. You're never going to get a sensible discussion here because some people have already made their minds up and they won't allow anyone to have a different opinion." Which ‘benefits’ have been identified? JRM was the minister for Brexit opportunities, I don’t recall him finding any? | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. " Good for you, why do you hate your country ? | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? " Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion  | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion "You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker, | |||
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"But surely the people who are still cheering on brexit could give us some reasons for optimism?" Not yet. If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. "So far the best effort has been "you lost, we won". Which lets be honest, is nonsense. " To be fair, the other side's argument is mostly "it's shit today, and that's all I care about". | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion
You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker, "It's very debatable that what you say there, but let's say that's true, I wouldn't hesitate with hindsight, even knowing for sure that brexit is financially worse for the UK to vote leave. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion
You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker,
It's very debatable that what you say there, but let's say that's true, I wouldn't hesitate with hindsight, even knowing for sure that brexit is financially worse for the UK to vote leave."Ah, so you want the UK to be poorer and weaker? Why? | |||
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"We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage." "Which ‘benefits’ have been identified?" As examples of the 3 types: 1) No more EU membership fees. 2) No 'tampon tax'. 3) Trade deal with Australia. | |||
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"But surely the people who are still cheering on brexit could give us some reasons for optimism? Not yet. If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. So far the best effort has been "you lost, we won". Which lets be honest, is nonsense. To be fair, the other side's argument is mostly "it's shit today, and that's all I care about"." It is 3 years since we left, | |||
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"We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. Which ‘benefits’ have been identified? As examples of the 3 types: 1) No more EU membership fees. 2) No 'tampon tax'. 3) Trade deal with Australia." Fair enough 1 do the savings on the membership fees cover the loss in trade? 2 can’t argue with that 3 is the trade deal with Australia better for the UK than what we had before ? A benefit is an ‘advantage or profit gained from something’ | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. " | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. "You hate your country aswell | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion
You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker,
It's very debatable that what you say there, but let's say that's true, I wouldn't hesitate with hindsight, even knowing for sure that brexit is financially worse for the UK to vote leave.
Ah, so you want the UK to be poorer and weaker? Why? "I don't know why you persist on insinuating that what I didn't say or think. You seem to want answers for a question I'm not willing to answer as I don't see the relevance. I will say though that I am against the influences of the right wing conservativism I think has somehow infected way too many in my country. Equally, I am against revolution and radical reform. I've too many reasons to share here, I don't have the patience right now. So skimming over it somewhat, my absolute first reason for my standing is that it has enabled the current crop of government morons to fall flat on their faces after promising so much that never materialised, yet now they have nobody to blame but themselves, if that doesn't show everyone that we can't trust them then I don't know what will. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion
You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker,
It's very debatable that what you say there, but let's say that's true, I wouldn't hesitate with hindsight, even knowing for sure that brexit is financially worse for the UK to vote leave.
Ah, so you want the UK to be poorer and weaker? Why?
I don't know why you persist on insinuating that what I didn't say or think. You seem to want answers for a question I'm not willing to answer as I don't see the relevance.
I will say though that I am against the influences of the right wing conservativism I think has somehow infected way too many in my country. Equally, I am against revolution and radical reform. I've too many reasons to share here, I don't have the patience right now. So skimming over it somewhat, my absolute first reason for my standing is that it has enabled the current crop of government morons to fall flat on their faces after promising so much that never materialised, yet now they have nobody to blame but themselves, if that doesn't show everyone that we can't trust them then I don't know what will."Tbh, I agree with that , I was hoping we could have found a way to achieve those aims without making the country poorer and weaker though . I am guessing you didn’t vote for Boris in 2019. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion
You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker,
It's very debatable that what you say there, but let's say that's true, I wouldn't hesitate with hindsight, even knowing for sure that brexit is financially worse for the UK to vote leave.
Ah, so you want the UK to be poorer and weaker? Why?
I don't know why you persist on insinuating that what I didn't say or think. You seem to want answers for a question I'm not willing to answer as I don't see the relevance.
I will say though that I am against the influences of the right wing conservativism I think has somehow infected way too many in my country. Equally, I am against revolution and radical reform. I've too many reasons to share here, I don't have the patience right now. So skimming over it somewhat, my absolute first reason for my standing is that it has enabled the current crop of government morons to fall flat on their faces after promising so much that never materialised, yet now they have nobody to blame but themselves, if that doesn't show everyone that we can't trust them then I don't know what will.
Tbh, I agree with that , I was hoping we could have found a way to achieve those aims without making the country poorer and weaker though . I am guessing you didn’t vote for Boris in 2019. "I am not comfortable with revealing who I vote for, mostly because people hold you to your choices that are entirely situational and relative to that moment in time. Opinions change, people can do that, and I'm not sure why it makes such angry volitle reactions when it does. To answer your question though, I've never voted and unlikely to ever vote blue for various reasons. I hate David Cameron, for a start... I'm not going into that side of politics I also must add that 'mr racist' nigel farage, has seemingly (as expected from brexit), lost any of his large influence and pushed into obscurity. | |||
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" To be fair, the other side's argument is mostly "it's shit today, and that's all I care about"." This is why I can never get any sense from anyone shouting that "rejoin" narrative. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. Good for you, why do you hate your country ? Who said I hate my country? Not sure how you have come to that conclusion
You said you would still for vote for Brexit even though it makes the country poorer and weaker,
It's very debatable that what you say there, but let's say that's true, I wouldn't hesitate with hindsight, even knowing for sure that brexit is financially worse for the UK to vote leave.
Ah, so you want the UK to be poorer and weaker? Why?
I don't know why you persist on insinuating that what I didn't say or think. You seem to want answers for a question I'm not willing to answer as I don't see the relevance.
I will say though that I am against the influences of the right wing conservativism I think has somehow infected way too many in my country. Equally, I am against revolution and radical reform. I've too many reasons to share here, I don't have the patience right now. So skimming over it somewhat, my absolute first reason for my standing is that it has enabled the current crop of government morons to fall flat on their faces after promising so much that never materialised, yet now they have nobody to blame but themselves, if that doesn't show everyone that we can't trust them then I don't know what will.
Tbh, I agree with that , I was hoping we could have found a way to achieve those aims without making the country poorer and weaker though . I am guessing you didn’t vote for Boris in 2019.
I am not comfortable with revealing who I vote for, mostly because people hold you to your choices that are entirely situational and relative to that moment in time. Opinions change, people can do that, and I'm not sure why it makes such angry volitle reactions when it does.
To answer your question though, I've never voted and unlikely to ever vote blue for various reasons. I hate David Cameron, for a start... I'm not going into that side of politics
I also must add that 'mr racist' nigel farage, has seemingly (as expected from brexit), lost any of his large influence and pushed into obscurity."Fair enough, exposing this government and pushing Farage into obscurity can definitely be classed as Brexit benefits | |||
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"We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. Which ‘benefits’ have been identified? As examples of the 3 types: 1) No more EU membership fees. 2) No 'tampon tax'. 3) Trade deal with Australia. Fair enough 1 do the savings on the membership fees cover the loss in trade? 2 can’t argue with that 3 is the trade deal with Australia better for the UK than what we had before ? A benefit is an ‘advantage or profit gained from something’ " You proved the very point he was making. | |||
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"We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. Which ‘benefits’ have been identified? As examples of the 3 types: 1) No more EU membership fees. 2) No 'tampon tax'. 3) Trade deal with Australia. Fair enough 1 do the savings on the membership fees cover the loss in trade? 2 can’t argue with that 3 is the trade deal with Australia better for the UK than what we had before ? A benefit is an ‘advantage or profit gained from something’ You proved the very point he was making." I know, thanks | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going?" Great, the list of benefits grows every day | |||
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"In other Brexit related news, Boris has stated that he thinks Ukraine should join the EU. "Oh the irony!!! | |||
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"In other Brexit related news, Boris has stated that he thinks Ukraine should join the EU.
Oh the irony!!!"He must have noted that public opinion is going against Brexit, he does like to make a U turn | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. " Why? | |||
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"But surely the people who are still cheering on brexit could give us some reasons for optimism? Not yet. If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. So far the best effort has been "you lost, we won". Which lets be honest, is nonsense. To be fair, the other side's argument is mostly "it's shit today, and that's all I care about"." What new trading block? People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Great, the list of benefits grows every day" From zero to zero? | |||
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"We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage. Which ‘benefits’ have been identified? As examples of the 3 types: 1) No more EU membership fees. 2) No 'tampon tax'. 3) Trade deal with Australia." None of this is a benefit when put into context. And even if it was, it doesn't address the original point of "You will never convince the socialist remoaner" If anyone gives us "socialist Remoaners" something in the way of evidence that brexit isn't a huge turd, then we're all ears. However many years since the referendum. And so far there has been the square root of fuck all in the way of brexit positives. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. " You'd vote multiple times illegally? I'm shocked. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. You'd vote multiple times illegally? I'm shocked." Might explain how the leave side ‘won’ | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. You'd vote multiple times illegally? I'm shocked. Might explain how the leave side ‘won’ "You suggesting illegality? | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. You'd vote multiple times illegally? I'm shocked. Might explain how the leave side ‘won’
You suggesting illegality?"(Seemed like a joke. But now you mention illegality... I seem to remember the leave campaign for Brexit was found to have broken the law.) | |||
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"But surely the people who are still cheering on brexit could give us some reasons for optimism? Not yet. If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. So far the best effort has been "you lost, we won". Which lets be honest, is nonsense. To be fair, the other side's argument is mostly "it's shit today, and that's all I care about"." Geography will dictate that your first point will never happen. We are not productive enough to produce anything cheaply and transport costs would just add to our issues. If only we could find a large market nearby with zero customs … No it escapes me ! ???? To be fair the second point is heavily weighed in favour of the remain supporters by reality but I agree dumbing down the debate only helps to keep the ignorance alive. Facts always trump rhetoric if you’re allowed to see them. So far remain is 99% correct. I’m giving the tampon tax the 1% but being maybe quicker than the whole of the EU by a couple of years isn’t really huge celebration territory or worth the billions down the drain along with workers rights being lost. | |||
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"We've been here before. Several benefits have been identified, but they all get dismissed because either: 1) The benefit is outweighed by a disadvantage. 2) The benefit 'would have happened anyway'. 3) That's not a benefit, it's a disguised disadvantage." "Which ‘benefits’ have been identified? As examples of the 3 types: 1) No more EU membership fees. 2) No 'tampon tax'. 3) Trade deal with Australia. Fair enough 1 do the savings on the membership fees cover the loss in trade? 2 can’t argue with that 3 is the trade deal with Australia better for the UK than what we had before ?" Let's say I accept your point of view on all of this. We've written down a list of pros and cons, weighed up the balance, and decided that overall the cons are bigger than the pros. That doesn't mean that there are no entries in the pro column. People here keep saying "there are no benefits, not a single one", and when benefits are pointed out to them, they just dismiss them. How can we have a sensible debate when people on one side refuse to see anything that goes against their opinion? | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all." "What new trading block?" Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. "People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming." And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not. | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all." "Geography will dictate that your first point will never happen. We are not productive enough to produce anything cheaply and transport costs would just add to our issues." Your productivity point is irrelevant. Our productivity is what it is, whether we are in the EU or not. As for transport costs, they aren't that high when you're transporting luxury goods, which is the only sort that makes a profit if your productivity is low. And of course there are all the services which the UK can provide, which don't need any transport at all. "So far remain is 99% correct. I’m giving the tampon tax the 1% but being maybe quicker than the whole of the EU by a couple of years isn’t really huge celebration territory ..." We're ahead of the EU by only a couple of years so far. The EU announced they were looking in to changing it in 2015, and so far nothing has happened. Every day that passes is another day that we were ahead. But I accept that economically it's a fiddling small advantage that really isn't worth the effort. However I know women that put a much higher value on the issue. "... or worth the billions down the drain along with workers rights being lost. " No workers rights have been lost as a result of leaving the EU. | |||
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" ... or worth the billions down the drain along with workers rights being lost. No workers rights have been lost as a result of leaving the EU. " Hmmm interesting that the brexit supporters often say things like “give it time” and “this is a multi-year project” heck JRM totally hedged his bets saying it could take 50years
So on workers and human rights I say...give it time. This govt are already attacking the right to strike. Raab wants to drop or change elements of the Human Rights Act. If the Tory’s stay in power, workers rights will be diminished. That would not have happened if the UK remained in the EU. | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. What new trading block? Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not." Okay sure, we can't "definitely" say it's a failure. Aliens could land in the UK and give us some kind of tech that gives us an advantage over the rest of the world. It's highly unlikely. But I know the importance of accuracy in semantics. I'm glad we agree that there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that brexit will be anything but an utter failure for Britain. | |||
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"I'm glad we agree that there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that brexit will be anything but an utter failure for Britain. " Well, there's the obvious evidence that the EU only accounts for about 16% of world trade, and that we've already grabbed a teeny tiny bit of that with the Australia trade deal, and that we're negotiating to get access to the CPTPP. So not zero evidence. But we agree that there is currently very little evidence to show that Brexit might be a success. I'm sure we also agree that, while there is much conjecture and a lot of pointers, there's no solid evidence that Brexit must definitely be a failure. | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. What new trading block? Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not." Give it forever, then Brexit can never be a failure by your logic. Correct? | |||
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"I'm glad we agree that there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that brexit will be anything but an utter failure for Britain. Well, there's the obvious evidence that the EU only accounts for about 16% of world trade, and that we've already grabbed a teeny tiny bit of that with the Australia trade deal, and that we're negotiating to get access to the CPTPP. So not zero evidence. But we agree that there is currently very little evidence to show that Brexit might be a success. I'm sure we also agree that, while there is much conjecture and a lot of pointers, there's no solid evidence that Brexit must definitely be a failure." Although the EU do have a trade deal with Australia which seems to be going well for them. But I do agree. We can't say it will "definitely" be a failure. Just extremely likely to be a failure, with no current evidence to suggest anything except a failure for Britain. However. I would suggest that while brexit has been an abject failure for Britain in every measurable way. This was part of the design, brexit has been successful when measured in terms of those who orchestrated it and what they wanted to achieve. | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all." "What new trading block?" "Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new." "People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming." "And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not." "Give it forever, then Brexit can never be a failure by your logic. Correct?" No, I said give it *a* chance, not all the chances in the world. I think Brexit is all about trade, so I'd say that we should give it the amount of time that trade deals usually take. It's not uncommon for trade deals to take 20 years or so to complete, but I think that if it's going to happen we should be able to see some signs of meaningful progress within the next 10 years. | |||
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"If I had the choice, I'd still vote leave x10 for sure. You'd vote multiple times illegally? I'm shocked. Might explain how the leave side ‘won’
You suggesting illegality?"No, you did | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. What new trading block? Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not. Give it forever, then Brexit can never be a failure by your logic. Correct? No, I said give it *a* chance, not all the chances in the world. I think Brexit is all about trade, so I'd say that we should give it the amount of time that trade deals usually take. It's not uncommon for trade deals to take 20 years or so to complete, but I think that if it's going to happen we should be able to see some signs of meaningful progress within the next 10 years." Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. What new trading block? Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not. Give it forever, then Brexit can never be a failure by your logic. Correct? No, I said give it *a* chance, not all the chances in the world. I think Brexit is all about trade, so I'd say that we should give it the amount of time that trade deals usually take. It's not uncommon for trade deals to take 20 years or so to complete, but I think that if it's going to happen we should be able to see some signs of meaningful progress within the next 10 years." What is an "acceptable" chance to you and what is an "acceptable " chance to me and what is an "acceptable " chance to someone who would vote for "Brexit x10"? What is "meaningful" progress and why is Brexit "all about trade". It is nothing to do with trade according to many who voted for Brexit. What's the plan and what are the targets to judge success or failure against? | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. What new trading block? Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not. Give it forever, then Brexit can never be a failure by your logic. Correct? No, I said give it *a* chance, not all the chances in the world. I think Brexit is all about trade, so I'd say that we should give it the amount of time that trade deals usually take. It's not uncommon for trade deals to take 20 years or so to complete, but I think that if it's going to happen we should be able to see some signs of meaningful progress within the next 10 years." I prefer it when you stick to your pedantry
Waiting 10 years to see any benefits:
1. As I recall, none of the major players in the leave camp ever said that or pushed this narrative.
2. The narrative was all about “quickest deal” and “oven ready deal” and an attempt at a countdown on all those new juicy trade deals we would very quickly sign (when the reality was that almost all were simply rollover deals from our time in the EU).
3. The Govt obviously thought they would be securing benefits sooner than 10yrs as they created a Ministerial role for JRM focused squarely on that! What happened to that role BTW? | |||
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"If brexit is ever going to be a positive, it will be because we form a trading block that's bigger than the EU. That's not going to happen next week. It'll be several years at least before we start to see definite cause for optimism. Assuming that it happens at all. What new trading block? Who knows? The CPTPP could be a start. That might be expanded to include other countries. Or we could start something entirely new. People who are talking about the impact of brexit (remoaner liberal left snowflake woke communists as we're known on fab), are concerned with the short and long term impacts. There is currently zero evidence that anything positive is coming. And there won't be any evidence until something is negotiated, and a new deal is signed. That isn't going to happen quickly. It's fair to complain that Brexit has caused problems, but you can't say that it's definitely a failure without giving it a chance to see if it'll work out not. Give it forever, then Brexit can never be a failure by your logic. Correct? No, I said give it *a* chance, not all the chances in the world. I think Brexit is all about trade, so I'd say that we should give it the amount of time that trade deals usually take. It's not uncommon for trade deals to take 20 years or so to complete, but I think that if it's going to happen we should be able to see some signs of meaningful progress within the next 10 years. I prefer it when you stick to your pedantry
Waiting 10 years to see any benefits:
1. As I recall, none of the major players in the leave camp ever said that or pushed this narrative.
2. The narrative was all about “quickest deal” and “oven ready deal” and an attempt at a countdown on all those new juicy trade deals we would very quickly sign (when the reality was that almost all were simply rollover deals from our time in the EU).
3. The Govt obviously thought they would be securing benefits sooner than 10yrs as they created a Ministerial role for JRM focused squarely on that! What happened to that role BTW?"In fairness, he is still on the pedantry. We don't "definitely" know brexit will be a failure for Britain. A meteorite could land on continental Europe, but leave us unharmed. And we will have pre-untangled ourselves from the EU. As an example. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity?" No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals." Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. " | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. " Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it." Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! | |||
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"What is an "acceptable" chance to you and what is an "acceptable " chance to me and what is an "acceptable " chance to someone who would vote for "Brexit x10"?" I didn't use the word 'acceptable', so I don't know why you've put it in quotes. I can't tell you what's acceptable to other people. "What is "meaningful" progress and why is Brexit "all about trade". It is nothing to do with trade according to many who voted for Brexit." It's hard to define exactly what constitutes 'meaningful' this far in advance. If we're talking about CPTPP membership, I'd expect to see an official announcement of agreement in principle, with advanced discussions in progress. I said "I think Brexit is all about trade", meaning 'in my opinion, trade is the way to make Brexit work'. I'm not going to attempt to explain what other people think. "What's the plan and what are the targets to judge success or failure against?" I'm not in government, so I have no idea what the plan is. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow!" Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them." Maybe people are waking up to the fact that a small handful of people have done VERY WELL out of the chaos of Brexit. Disaster Capitalism at its very best! Hmmm I wonder whose Daddy wrote a book on that...? | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that a small handful of people have done VERY WELL out of the chaos of Brexit. Disaster Capitalism at its very best! Hmmm I wonder whose Daddy wrote a book on that...?" Maybe they are, I'd be more inclined to say that only a small % were actually in camp no3. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that a small handful of people have done VERY WELL out of the chaos of Brexit. Disaster Capitalism at its very best! Hmmm I wonder whose Daddy wrote a book on that...? Maybe they are, I'd be more inclined to say that only a small % were actually in camp no3." The people who orchestrated brexit were 100% in camp 3. They're still campaigning for the most brutally damaging brexit possible. As for voters. I've no idea. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that a small handful of people have done VERY WELL out of the chaos of Brexit. Disaster Capitalism at its very best! Hmmm I wonder whose Daddy wrote a book on that...? Maybe they are, I'd be more inclined to say that only a small % were actually in camp no3. The people who orchestrated brexit were 100% in camp 3. They're still campaigning for the most brutally damaging brexit possible. As for voters. I've no idea." Which is exactly why we should've had a second vote. | |||
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"It's now been 3 years since Brexit. How do you all think it's going? Badly, mainly because the Whitehall / Civil Service blob is full of leftie, wokie remoaners who thwart every attempt to make Brexit a success. Parliament is also infested by the same type of people so the political will to drive change is also not there. Sorry absolutely no offence meant but that narrative is utter tosh and you have been taken in by it. Ask 10 brexiters what a successful brexit looks like and you will get 10 answers. Nobody knew what they wanted or if it was even possible. The Civil Service is there to enact the requirements of the Government of the day. Part of their remit is to undertake due diligence and impact assessments to ensure that ministerial and Cabinet decisions are taken in the full understanding of what that will mean. Just look at this extract from the super left leaning, hugely woke, EU supporting The Telegraph... “Brexit is costing the UK's economy £100bn a year as the way the split from the EU has been implemented leaves companies struggling to attract investment and hire workers. On the third anniversary of Britain leaving the bloc, the nation’s economy is 4pc smaller than it might have been according to analysis by Bloomberg Economics. Business investment in the UK has grown 19pc less than the average across G7 economies, it showed. Economists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson said: "Did the UK commit an act of economic self-harm when it voted to leave the EU in 2016? The evidence so far still suggests it did. "The main takeaway is that the rupture from the single market may have impacted the British economy faster than we, or most other forecasters, expected."" Couldn't have put it better! | |||
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"It is interesting how ardent Brexiters are now being mocked by TV audiences which is a very stark contrast to even one year ago. My view is that in another 12 months or so, certainly by the summer of 2024 when election time is upon us, Brexit will be viewed as being as toxic and foolish as Tony Blair's war in Iraq. Hopefully, by then everyone will be able to talk rationally again about why and how things went wrong and what we can all do collectively to put things right. (And after that we can send Brexiters to the Tower) "It is the same on here, what has happened to the ardent Brexit supporters who used to post on the forums? | |||
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"Waiting 10 years to see any benefits: 1. As I recall, none of the major players in the leave camp ever said that or pushed this narrative. 2. The narrative was all about “quickest deal” and “oven ready deal” and an attempt at a countdown on all those new juicy trade deals we would very quickly sign (when the reality was that almost all were simply rollover deals from our time in the EU). 3. The Govt obviously thought they would be securing benefits sooner than 10yrs as they created a Ministerial role for JRM focused squarely on that! What happened to that role BTW?" I'm not talking about how we got here, I'm just saying what I think is the best way forward, given that we are where we are. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity?" "No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals." "Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then?" Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. "If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. " The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial." The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world " Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though." Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world " As pointed out, it's possible to imagine a larger one. Probably not possible in reality. But we can certainly imagine it. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? " Google what the EU consists of. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial." | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? Google what the EU consists of." I know what the EU is, can you tell me where I can find ‘just a trading bloc’ | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that a small handful of people have done VERY WELL out of the chaos of Brexit. Disaster Capitalism at its very best! Hmmm I wonder whose Daddy wrote a book on that...? Maybe they are, I'd be more inclined to say that only a small % were actually in camp no3." In which case all the more reason not to have a single binary referendum! However, one of THE main arguments for Leave was the “membership fee” the UK paid. That was how they falsely claimed £350m a week for the NHS on the side of the bus. Trouble is that EFTA and EEA come with hefty fees to BUT no ability to influence or shape regulations and laws. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? Google what the EU consists of. I know what the EU is, can you tell me where I can find ‘just a trading bloc’ " I don't need to. I made a factual statement in that the EU isn't just a trading bloc in response to your 'EU is the world's large trading bloc' The EU is also a political union. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. Not if it was a simple Trading Bloc. One that we should never have left in the first place. I'd hazard a guess that if we were offered the 'trading union' without the 'political union' the electorate would vote for it. Therein lies the problem. Cameron et al provided a single binary referendum. On the Remain side it is safe to say that 48% wanted to maintain the status quo. On the Leave side there were multiple views and objectives of what form Brexit should take and much disagreement. So it is also safe to say that the 52% didn’t all agree with each other on the nature of the future relationship. What SHOULD have happened (and would have caused less societal rift in the process) is a second referendum on that future relationship cover, for example... 1. EFTA 2. EEA 3. Hard Brexit no links/ties As it is we have a shitshow! Agreed. I genuinely think now that we can see what's occurring even people in no. 3 would change their minds. Obviously not all but enough of them. Maybe people are waking up to the fact that a small handful of people have done VERY WELL out of the chaos of Brexit. Disaster Capitalism at its very best! Hmmm I wonder whose Daddy wrote a book on that...? Maybe they are, I'd be more inclined to say that only a small % were actually in camp no3. In which case all the more reason not to have a single binary referendum! However, one of THE main arguments for Leave was the “membership fee” the UK paid. That was how they falsely claimed £350m a week for the NHS on the side of the bus. Trouble is that EFTA and EEA come with hefty fees to BUT no ability to influence or shape regulations and laws." You don't need to tell me
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? Google what the EU consists of. I know what the EU is, can you tell me where I can find ‘just a trading bloc’ I don't need to. I made a factual statement in that the EU isn't just a trading bloc in response to your 'EU is the world's large trading bloc' The EU is also a political union." Ah, fair enough, is the would largest trading bloc though , or are you stating that there aren’t any trading blocs? | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? Google what the EU consists of. I know what the EU is, can you tell me where I can find ‘just a trading bloc’ I don't need to. I made a factual statement in that the EU isn't just a trading bloc in response to your 'EU is the world's large trading bloc' The EU is also a political union. Ah, fair enough, is the would largest trading bloc though , or are you stating that there aren’t any trading blocs?" I'm not stating anything. I haven't looked into other trading blocs to see if they're also political. The fact remains that the EU isn't just a trading bloc. | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though." The irony is that the UK leaving the EU makes the likelihood of a move towards federalisation more likely. As long as the UK was a member (with the 2nd richest economy and 1st most powerful military, acting as the English speaking gateway for many non EU based organisations) with power of veto, a Federal States of Europe would have never happened. In the same way as Putin’s fear of a United States of Europe with their own federal military on Russia’s doorstep expanding to include Ukraine is now more of a reality due to his actions! | |||
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"Do you think that there is any evidence that the UK, as a smaller and weaker entity than the EU, will be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU, a much larger, powerful and more influential entity? No. The UK is now faster and more flexible, but doesn't have as much leverage. That's why I said that the success of Brexit would depend on us being in some sort of trading block, which would include several other countries to make it big enough to negotiate good deals. Wouldn't this hypothetical trading block make us slower and less flexible then? Probably. But that might be worth it for the extra leverage. If only we hadn't just left a big powerful trading block, in the vague hope of forming another one. Oh well. The EU only has about 16% of the world trade. That leaves quite a lot to potentially capture. It's not hard to imagine a trading block that could be bigger than the EU, and therefore more beneficial. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world Correct. It's not just a trading bloc though. Can you define what ‘just a trading bloc’ is? Google what the EU consists of. I know what the EU is, can you tell me where I can find ‘just a trading bloc’ I don't need to. I made a factual statement in that the EU isn't just a trading bloc in response to your 'EU is the world's large trading bloc' The EU is also a political union. Ah, fair enough, is the would largest trading bloc though , or are you stating that there aren’t any trading blocs? I'm not stating anything. I haven't looked into other trading blocs to see if they're also political. The fact remains that the EU isn't just a trading bloc." True, but it is without doubt the largest ‘not just a trading bloc’ | |||
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"EU is a political Union of countries, Blocs like NAFTA,ASEAN etc are Economic Union" When do you think the UK will join NAFTA or ASEAN? | |||
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"EU is a political Union of countries, Blocs like NAFTA,ASEAN etc are Economic Union" It's both, a political and economic union. | |||
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"Of course when the EU does go further along the federal route, brexiters will point and say “see we told you” completely missing the irony that this was enabled by Brexit!" The VETO only allowed us to opt out, it didn't allow us to stop it. I don't see any irony in that. | |||
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