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"Tories will win. Absolutely no question for me. They have the support of the vast majority of the media, they are much better funded, represent the interests of those corporations and billionaires that donate to them. I can't see anything changing since the last few elections." Even after everything? Fuck me that's depressing I'm no labour fan but Christ, CAN it get worse? | |||
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"Tories will win. Absolutely no question for me. They have the support of the vast majority of the media, they are much better funded, represent the interests of those corporations and billionaires that donate to them. I can't see anything changing since the last few elections. Even after everything? Fuck me that's depressing " Just my opinion, I don't see that the Tories have got worse. They've been self serving corrupt narcissists for the past 12 years and people vote for them relentlessly. " I'm no labour fan but Christ, CAN it get worse?" For sure they'd be less shit and less corrupt. It's not really relevant though. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. " The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. | |||
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" I always thought part of Labour ls downfall was Brown himself, not a great people person. Politics is more than half a popularity contest " And therein lies the problem in this country. Angela Merkel was the most successful post-WW2 leader of any European country, but Germans didn’t vote for her because of her scintillating personality. They voted for her no nonsense attitude and general competence. Here, we talk about personality as if having a personality means that a person will do a good job. Well look what happened when people put their faith in Boris Johnson! If the country at large can resist being groomed by the right wing media we will have Sir Kier Starmer as our next PM and hopefully politics will once again become just something that happens quietly in the background whilst we get on with our day to day lives. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. " Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. " Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. | |||
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 Remember that when the outraged stories about SKS start to get kicked up at the start of campaign time.
So long as the tories can keep their media owners sweet, I wouldn't be surprised to see them win. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow." The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. " Your figures are not quite right. 41% of Scottish voters voted to remain in the EU, against 25% who voted to leave. It's all immaterial anyway, as the Referendum wasn't a nation by nation vote, it was a UK vote. | |||
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"People tend to have short memories when it comes to the bad times. The tories know this and they will fire up their PR engine to gaslight the voters again. Remember their blitzkrieg on JC before the last GE? 'HE KEPT HIS COAT ON AT THE CENOTAPH - HE'S BASICALLY SATAN' was a front page story for a week. Remember that when the outraged stories about SKS start to get kicked up at the start of campaign time.
So long as the tories can keep their media owners sweet, I wouldn't be surprised to see them win. "(Jewish) Red Ed ate a bacon sandwich!!!!!! Starmer bought some land and opened a donkey sanctuary for his mum!!!!!! Johnson, Sunak, Zahawi, Braverman, Gove etc etc = nothing to see here. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. . The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. Your figures are not quite right. 41% of Scottish voters voted to remain in the EU, against 25% who voted to leave. It's all immaterial anyway, as the Referendum wasn't a nation by nation vote, it was a UK vote." Incorrect, it was 62%-38% unless I suppose you are including those who never voted as the turnout in Scotland was 67%. But as with any election, results are based on those who bother to vote. As forvit being a UK vote, you are correct but just further proves why this "union of equals" is not fit for purpose | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. . The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. Your figures are not quite right. 41% of Scottish voters voted to remain in the EU, against 25% who voted to leave. It's all immaterial anyway, as the Referendum wasn't a nation by nation vote, it was a UK vote. Incorrect, it was 62%-38% unless I suppose you are including those who never voted as the turnout in Scotland was 67%. But as with any election, results are based on those who bother to vote. As forvit being a UK vote, you are correct but just further proves why this "union of equals" is not fit for purpose " The figures are easily accessible. You cannot count people that decided not to exercise their right to vote. Second guessing their intentions, or lack of, is not how votes work! | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. . The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. Your figures are not quite right. 41% of Scottish voters voted to remain in the EU, against 25% who voted to leave. It's all immaterial anyway, as the Referendum wasn't a nation by nation vote, it was a UK vote. Incorrect, it was 62%-38% unless I suppose you are including those who never voted as the turnout in Scotland was 67%. But as with any election, results are based on those who bother to vote. As forvit being a UK vote, you are correct but just further proves why this "union of equals" is not fit for purpose The figures are easily accessible. You cannot count people that decided not to exercise their right to vote. Second guessing their intentions, or lack of, is not how votes work!" Numbers are easily accessible which is odd that you have come up with the numbers you have. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. " I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave?" Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. " So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense." You're right, it doesn't make sense. But, elections in Scotland are basically snp and greens saying vote for us if you want referendum. Tories, Labour and lib dems saying vote for us if you don't want referendum. Then you get these parties saying the only way to remove snp in certain wards is to vote for the best placed challenger (ie, second place last time) then you have to factor in the "rule britannia" brigade, who are generally living off a battle from over 300 years ago and who no matter what happens would NEVER vote for something that threatened their union. Point in case, a ward near paisley last time round went tory for the first time in god knows how long but the folk there are nowhere near typical tory voters. There is so much more going on in Scottish politics than just the party with the best manifesto. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense. You're right, it doesn't make sense. But, elections in Scotland are basically snp and greens saying vote for us if you want referendum. Tories, Labour and lib dems saying vote for us if you don't want referendum. Then you get these parties saying the only way to remove snp in certain wards is to vote for the best placed challenger (ie, second place last time) then you have to factor in the "rule britannia" brigade, who are generally living off a battle from over 300 years ago and who no matter what happens would NEVER vote for something that threatened their union. Point in case, a ward near paisley last time round went tory for the first time in god knows how long but the folk there are nowhere near typical tory voters. There is so much more going on in Scottish politics than just the party with the best manifesto. " Tactical voting has always happened. In all honesty though, I don't think you're getting another referendum anytime soon so would it not be better to vote for other reasons? | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense. You're right, it doesn't make sense. But, elections in Scotland are basically snp and greens saying vote for us if you want referendum. Tories, Labour and lib dems saying vote for us if you don't want referendum. Then you get these parties saying the only way to remove snp in certain wards is to vote for the best placed challenger (ie, second place last time) then you have to factor in the "rule britannia" brigade, who are generally living off a battle from over 300 years ago and who no matter what happens would NEVER vote for something that threatened their union. Point in case, a ward near paisley last time round went tory for the first time in god knows how long but the folk there are nowhere near typical tory voters. There is so much more going on in Scottish politics than just the party with the best manifesto. Tactical voting has always happened. In all honesty though, I don't think you're getting another referendum anytime soon so would it not be better to vote for other reasons?" Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense. You're right, it doesn't make sense. But, elections in Scotland are basically snp and greens saying vote for us if you want referendum. Tories, Labour and lib dems saying vote for us if you don't want referendum. Then you get these parties saying the only way to remove snp in certain wards is to vote for the best placed challenger (ie, second place last time) then you have to factor in the "rule britannia" brigade, who are generally living off a battle from over 300 years ago and who no matter what happens would NEVER vote for something that threatened their union. Point in case, a ward near paisley last time round went tory for the first time in god knows how long but the folk there are nowhere near typical tory voters. There is so much more going on in Scottish politics than just the party with the best manifesto. Tactical voting has always happened. In all honesty though, I don't think you're getting another referendum anytime soon so would it not be better to vote for other reasons? Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? " That sounds all too much like a rant for me to want to engage any further on this thread. Feel free to start a new one on that topic | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense. You're right, it doesn't make sense. But, elections in Scotland are basically snp and greens saying vote for us if you want referendum. Tories, Labour and lib dems saying vote for us if you don't want referendum. Then you get these parties saying the only way to remove snp in certain wards is to vote for the best placed challenger (ie, second place last time) then you have to factor in the "rule britannia" brigade, who are generally living off a battle from over 300 years ago and who no matter what happens would NEVER vote for something that threatened their union. Point in case, a ward near paisley last time round went tory for the first time in god knows how long but the folk there are nowhere near typical tory voters. There is so much more going on in Scottish politics than just the party with the best manifesto. Tactical voting has always happened. In all honesty though, I don't think you're getting another referendum anytime soon so would it not be better to vote for other reasons? Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? That sounds all too much like a rant for me to want to engage any further on this thread. Feel free to start a new one on that topic" Wasn't meant to. Also sorry OP if this has detracted from your original sentiments. | |||
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"In the words of Montgomery Brewster "vote for none of the above"" They should play that film around every election period lol | |||
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"Parties don't win 4 straight general elections. If Maggie couldn't and Blair couldn't there's no way this incompetent bunch will... and quite rightly. I don't have much faith in the Labour party as I think starmer will get screwed by his party but only a fool continues down the same path" History might disagree with you. Look it up. | |||
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"Some choice isn't it? shite or really shite. The future looks bleak. The future only looks bleak if you are only voting to change tomorrow. Vote to change the tomorrow after that. The party I would like to see in power (based it their current manifesto which I review each time they change it) are nowhere near in power. (On their own at least. As a coalition, they'd have a seat at the table however). But I vote for them election after election. I'm not voting for tomorrow, I'm voting for the one after that, or the one after that. Building up their core base. Helping them manoeuvre in to a stronger position. Might happen in my life time. Might not. But at least I voted for what I believed in. Try living in Scotland where we haven't voted for the current shower of shite since 1955. Scotland is interesting... Voted Labour from 1964-2015. SNP since then. It gets interesting from that point. A massive 50% of votes in 2015 but then lost over 13 points in 2017. Conservatives become second biggest party in 2017 and then in 2019 improved the gap to Labour by quite a large margin. Possibly Brexit? What I don't understand is why? We're told the Scots never wanted to leave the EU and would happily rejoin tomorrow. The 2015 vote where snp got 56 out of 59 seats in Westminster was basically the yes vote from the 2014 referendum still being engaged enough to vote. We still see snp winning GE and Scottish elections by a long way. Scotland voted 62%-38% to remain in Europe its a travesty that we got removed, all it does is highlight the difference between voters in England and Scotland. I wasn't speaking about the number of seats, more about the vote share %. I don't necessarily agree or disagree but I ask why the 2019 vote for conservatives was so so high considering Scotland wanted to leave? Unfortunately voting in Scotland is tied to the constitutional question of independence, its polarising in that there has and will continue to be a lot of tactical voting going on. That's the only reason I could give. So those who don't want independence suddenly flip to the conservatives that they hate oh so much? That just doesn't make sense. You're right, it doesn't make sense. But, elections in Scotland are basically snp and greens saying vote for us if you want referendum. Tories, Labour and lib dems saying vote for us if you don't want referendum. Then you get these parties saying the only way to remove snp in certain wards is to vote for the best placed challenger (ie, second place last time) then you have to factor in the "rule britannia" brigade, who are generally living off a battle from over 300 years ago and who no matter what happens would NEVER vote for something that threatened their union. Point in case, a ward near paisley last time round went tory for the first time in god knows how long but the folk there are nowhere near typical tory voters. There is so much more going on in Scottish politics than just the party with the best manifesto. Tactical voting has always happened. In all honesty though, I don't think you're getting another referendum anytime soon so would it not be better to vote for other reasons? Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? That sounds all too much like a rant for me to want to engage any further on this thread. Feel free to start a new one on that topic Wasn't meant to. Also sorry OP if this has detracted from your original sentiments. " No worries, it all ties into the argument | |||
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"In the words of Montgomery Brewster "vote for none of the above" They should play that film around every election period lol"  | |||
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" Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? " I am not Scottish and so I don’t have any skin in this game, but I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. I have in fact been asking the same question in other forums when the question of Scottish independence arises. It is either a union of equals, or it isn’t. And by the look of it just now, it isn’t. I wish that those who oppose Scottish Independence and who live in England would pursue an argument of benefits of the union as opposed to denying Scottish people the right to do as they wish. | |||
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" Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? I am not Scottish and so I don’t have any skin in this game, but I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. I have in fact been asking the same question in other forums when the question of Scottish independence arises. It is either a union of equals, or it isn’t. And by the look of it just now, it isn’t. I wish that those who oppose Scottish Independence and who live in England would pursue an argument of benefits of the union as opposed to denying Scottish people the right to do as they wish." You're right! Scotland gets 25% more Government money per person spent on it, than my region does. Hardly equal! | |||
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" Who's right is it to deny a referendum when we consistently vote a party that has that in their manifesto? That is denying democracy. If its a union of equals surely one part of that union can decide to vote to stay pr leave whenever it wants? If its not a union of equals then is Scotland a colony? I am not Scottish and so I don’t have any skin in this game, but I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. I have in fact been asking the same question in other forums when the question of Scottish independence arises. It is either a union of equals, or it isn’t. And by the look of it just now, it isn’t. I wish that those who oppose Scottish Independence and who live in England would pursue an argument of benefits of the union as opposed to denying Scottish people the right to do as they wish." The Scottish people got what they voted for. Yet you and the other poster make it sound as though the whole of Scotland are being oppressed by the evil that is England. Come on, you are better at laying out an argument than that. | |||
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"Parties don't win 4 straight general elections. If Maggie couldn't and Blair couldn't there's no way this incompetent bunch will... and quite rightly. I don't have much faith in the Labour party as I think starmer will get screwed by his party but only a fool continues down the same path" They maybe incompetent in terms of running the country. But they are extremely adept at serving the needs of those who fund them, lining their own pockets, and persuading the electorate that they don't deserve anything better. | |||
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"Power is only ever lost, it is never won. In 2010, like OP says, Brown lost. If Labour were so awful, why couldn't the Tories, who some would argue are better with the purse strings, manage a majority? Labour had been in power for a long time, for the first time since the 1970s. And not only that, Labour were in office durimg the global financial crash and had taken this country into a war which became deeply unpopular. The Tories couldn't have asked for more preferable circumstances. And yet, people had no profound love for Cameron, he was just a change. If all had gone well for him, he would've served 7/8 years as PM from start to finish. Not bad for someone who was seen as a 'safe pair of hands' at best. Roles will be reversed in 2025, or before. Starmer is not loved, or adored by many. Certainly not by me. Yet, he is a change, not only for his party but the country. Sleaze, scandal and worse blight the modern Tory party. Zahawi and Raab are the latest in a long line of frontbench disasters. While Labour are by no means innocent on the scandal front, the perception is that the politicians are sleazebags but Labour are led by someone who has more integrity and moral authority. We shouldn't forget, the so-called election dynamo Johnson was removed from office, not because of his conduct but out of fear of losing. The polls had turned and Johnson was yesterday's man. If Starmer can see off Johnson, he can beat anything they chuck at him now. Truss was the answer the Tories first came to, how or why we may never know. After she and Kwarteng doused our burning economy with petrol, they had to rig the rules to make sure Sunak got the job. He was the saviour. First impressions were good, he was the clean break from the sleaze machine. 100 days into the job and the polls look bleak for him and his party. Labour lead by 20 points in voting intention and Sunak's personal ratings, while better than that of Truss, remain poor. This is someone that the Tories had to rig their own leadership rules for because he was the saviour to take the fight to Starmer. If Sunak lasts until summer 2024, he'll outlast Alec Douglas-Home, someone who took over the Conservatives who looked in relatively healthy shape but he couldn't prevent Wilson, who wasn't ideologically driven, from becoming PM. Douglas-Home was someone born into wealth and was viewed as hopelessly out of touch, while Wilson, comparatively looked like a man of the people. This was someone who had went to Oxford and was prevented from doing national service because he was deemed too important. Internally, the left never trusted him and the right really had it in for him. Yet, he won more elections post-war than any other PM up to now. Starmer, like Wilson, just so happens to be in the right place at the right time. I only hope he uses his power as successfully as Wilson managed. " Who gets power, they only gain office they never gain any power. | |||
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