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"And yet people keep thinking this government have their interests at heart. Bizarre " The effect of being conditioned by certain media for years. | |||
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"It takes foreign, in this case American, economists and commentators to actually say it as it is in the UK. Here’s an extract... “Most of the time, the Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, has a weird grin plastered on his face. One that’s totally, completely, shockingly inappropriate. My man! People in your country can’t get ambulances. Hospital beds. Antibiotics. They can’t feed their kids or afford heat. What are you grinning at? But when he’s not grinning, he says, shrugging, that these problems “won’t go away.” Wait, what? They won’t go away? It’s your job to do something about it! What planet is Britain on, every single figure in the halls of the world’s great democracies is wondering. How does a Prime Minister just grin — and then shrug — as his nation collapses? What the? And yet this is where Britain is. You see, its leaders are grinning and shrugging because this was the point. The point of Brexit wasn’t really just to break up with the EU — it was to turn Britain into a playground for the theories of the furthest, most fanatical, most deluded reaches of the American right. Rishi Sunak isn’t a politician, really — he’s a Stanford MBA. Imagine that America was governed by…a Stanford MBA. LOL, shudder. Imagine France was. Canada. Germany. Impossible, right? The vision that Britain’s leaders have is now basically an American fairy tale — a libertarian one. Sunak’s grinning — grinning — while the NHS collapses, which means people can’t get medicine, hospital beds, ambulances, and they die…because to the way of thinking of someone who’s a true believer in ultra hard American right wing economics — the kind they teach religiously at Stanford…there’s not supposed to be an NHS. There aren’t supposed to be any public goods at all. Public transport? Get real! Buy a Tesla — they love those at Stanford. Public media? Get a clue, hey, just use Twitter, so what if it’s full of disinformation and hate and bigotry spread by fascists — what do you think, having a BBC was better? Healthcare and medicine for all? No, no, my friend — to ensure that the strong survive and the weak perish is the moral duty of a society, and anything that gets in the way of that is, well, immoral, not to mention unproductive and inefficient.” " This post has got it's finger on the pulse | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... " We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. " I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts 
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that."The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act. Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic. The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card. But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that? Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting. As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters. Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice. My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency. MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders. Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent. To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers. So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it. How well do you think that factory will do? So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country. "These can definitely be seen both ways. One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'? If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate. If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others? | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?"No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge? Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption. Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them. Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom? | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom? "No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life). I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you."I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong. “new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “ Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail. The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide. As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point. Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be? I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives . | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
"I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote 
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community. | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? " I guess that's your list of brexit benefits finally appeared | |||
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"We can't be a banana republic with our climate. Now a cucumber catastrophe... "  | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community. "My apologies, totally my fault obviously. There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting. I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic. "The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked. BTW, I'll stand with you on PR. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic.
The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked.
BTW, I'll stand with you on PR."PR would mean your vote counted. It would bring in extremists but it would balanced by having them at each end of the spectrum. It would also stop a minority government running riot with an unfair share f power compared to their popularity. . Anyway, when you hand your mailed to you form in at the polling station you are ticked off the list. . If another person comes in claiming the same ID then the fraud investigation begins. 6 in 274 million it’s chronic. Some people don’t vote so it’s certainly possible but why now? Nothing to do with the Tory party falling out of favour? Just coincidence I’m sure. 
The American playbook all the way with boundary changes next I suspect. | |||
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"Quit complaining, just over 100 years ago we were sending waves of men who couldn't even vote into machine gun fire." Yes and you worked six days a week with just a few days a years holiday so are you recommending that as a good thing? That’s precisely why humans rights along with workers rights were earned and exactly why we should not be going backwards to those days. Although it seems we are again being lead by donkeys . Good that you pointed the comparison out. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic.
The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked.
BTW, I'll stand with you on PR.
PR would mean your vote counted. It would bring in extremists but it would balanced by having them at each end of the spectrum. It would also stop a minority government running riot with an unfair share f power compared to their popularity. .
Anyway, when you hand your mailed to you form in at the polling station you are ticked off the list. . If another person comes in claiming the same ID then the fraud investigation begins. 6 in 274 million it’s chronic.
Some people don’t vote so it’s certainly possible but why now? Nothing to do with the Tory party falling out of favour? Just coincidence I’m sure.
The American playbook all the way with boundary changes next I suspect. "I know how it currently works, there is plenty of scope for fraud though. Catching it right now is almost impossible. At the last GE the turnout was 67.3% leaving 32.7% votes not used, that could be 32.7% fraud that isn't traceable. Local elections England 34.6% leaving 65.4%. That's massive scope, and that's not even considering that some votes cast were fraudulent. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic.
The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked.
BTW, I'll stand with you on PR.
PR would mean your vote counted. It would bring in extremists but it would balanced by having them at each end of the spectrum. It would also stop a minority government running riot with an unfair share f power compared to their popularity. .
Anyway, when you hand your mailed to you form in at the polling station you are ticked off the list. . If another person comes in claiming the same ID then the fraud investigation begins. 6 in 274 million it’s chronic.
Some people don’t vote so it’s certainly possible but why now? Nothing to do with the Tory party falling out of favour? Just coincidence I’m sure.
The American playbook all the way with boundary changes next I suspect.
I know how it currently works, there is plenty of scope for fraud though. Catching it right now is almost impossible.
At the last GE the turnout was 67.3% leaving 32.7% votes not used, that could be 32.7% fraud that isn't traceable.
Local elections England 34.6% leaving 65.4%.
That's massive scope, and that's not even considering that some votes cast were fraudulent.
"There is no argument made that there is insufficient information to identify the level of voter fraud. However, if you can find that data, pleas do go ahead and share. Otherwise you are, I'm afraid, just making it up by making assumptions. | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? " I agree, but there is a mix between deliberate corruption of the system and stupidity for short-term gain. The root cause, I agree, is the normalisation of blatant lying and denial. However, we voted for it as a country and not "because of the press". People knew that it was lies and still voted. | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? " Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . " Is China your model for freedom of thought and democracy? Is your argument that it's not as bad as there, yet? | |||
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| |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . " For me that was the first time it was clear Pat is trolling us. He has, until now, been really subtle so we can never quite tell. This one was clearer. Excellent trolling Pat | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic.
The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked.
BTW, I'll stand with you on PR.
PR would mean your vote counted. It would bring in extremists but it would balanced by having them at each end of the spectrum. It would also stop a minority government running riot with an unfair share f power compared to their popularity. .
Anyway, when you hand your mailed to you form in at the polling station you are ticked off the list. . If another person comes in claiming the same ID then the fraud investigation begins. 6 in 274 million it’s chronic.
Some people don’t vote so it’s certainly possible but why now? Nothing to do with the Tory party falling out of favour? Just coincidence I’m sure.
The American playbook all the way with boundary changes next I suspect.
I know how it currently works, there is plenty of scope for fraud though. Catching it right now is almost impossible.
At the last GE the turnout was 67.3% leaving 32.7% votes not used, that could be 32.7% fraud that isn't traceable.
Local elections England 34.6% leaving 65.4%.
That's massive scope, and that's not even considering that some votes cast were fraudulent.
"I would agree with you if those votes were being used and there was a sudden uplift in people voting. Those 32.7% are not being used so how can that be fraud ?? Or is the cunning plan to stop everyone voting. | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . " More utter dross I see!! If all you have is nonsense please post your own topic . Maybe call it “my favourite trolls to post”. I’m sure it will be very amusing. This debate has been interesting to read and I’ve enjoyed the challenges to my statements. You’re just ridiculous and seriously lower the quality of the debate. Please move along to the comedy section. | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. The public order bill, is not stopping anyone from protesting and as not been used, I'm sure it will when it is needed, but for now no police force has used at a time of many protests. New potential rules are just that, not yet a thing. "New rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID" This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
The public order bill allows for a home office minister to override a police chief in deciding if a protest can go ahead . That is a politician overriding the sensible view of a policeman who could have deemed the protest safe. Shutting off protests is a Putin like act.
Allowing politicians to say who can and who cannot protest is definitely not democratic.
The new rules around voter ID allows anyone over 60 to use an Oyster card.
But university student cards and 18+ photo Oyster Cards have not been listed as acceptable. Why is that?
Those on low incomes are less likely to have a driving licence or a passport so have to apply for ID from the councils which seeing as they are usually less educated and politically aware then they are unlikely to know about this or in fact end up voting.
As a statistic of the last 274 million votes cast in this country only 6 occasions of voter fraud have been recorded so why do we need these knew laws other than to disenfranchise the poor and those more likely to be non Tory voters.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/10/government-uk-ministers-gifts-mps-standards-chris-bryant
If a central office chose your MPs then they will chose all those who will toe the party line first and listen to constituents second. It’s corrupt if you are given a restricted choice.
My own view would be any candidate must have to have been resident in a constituency for a minimum of five years before you are allowed to be selected as a candidate for that constituency.
MPs first role should be their local electorates interests not their party leaders.
Look at the quality which we now have in the Tory party to see how this selection process has made the party devoid of talent.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
If you're not saying that then surely the point is moot as it would work against the Tories as well as others?
No I’m saying people who are less educated and on the edge of society are less able to access identity cards and the new policy discriminated against the less fortunate which could include ethnic minorities and the disabled . These are not hard core right wing and wound be more likely to vote for better social care which is something the present Tory party is dead against given the drive to privatise NHS services
I would suggest many people who do not understand the reality of the true situation due to a bias media voted for the Tory party . Whether they are less intelligent is not for me to say. If you’re lied to, how can intelligence be used to judge?
Also please confirm the exemption for ministers which you insisted was without merit! How can that exemption be seen both ways? It is again unnecessary and open to corruption.
Also please feel free to address the other points as you were quick to dismiss them.
Should a politician decide if a protest should go ahead or not? Is that freedom to protest or is that political control of a basic historic freedom?
No one is 'less able' to access the new voter ID cards. Everyone against these ID'S assumes that there will be no adverts or canvassers telling people of these cards. I mean that's what's always happened when it comes to registering to vote (in my adult life).
I didn't dismiss any of your other points, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump, it just makes other not want to engage with you.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic.
The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked.
BTW, I'll stand with you on PR.
PR would mean your vote counted. It would bring in extremists but it would balanced by having them at each end of the spectrum. It would also stop a minority government running riot with an unfair share f power compared to their popularity. .
Anyway, when you hand your mailed to you form in at the polling station you are ticked off the list. . If another person comes in claiming the same ID then the fraud investigation begins. 6 in 274 million it’s chronic.
Some people don’t vote so it’s certainly possible but why now? Nothing to do with the Tory party falling out of favour? Just coincidence I’m sure.
The American playbook all the way with boundary changes next I suspect.
I know how it currently works, there is plenty of scope for fraud though. Catching it right now is almost impossible.
At the last GE the turnout was 67.3% leaving 32.7% votes not used, that could be 32.7% fraud that isn't traceable.
Local elections England 34.6% leaving 65.4%.
That's massive scope, and that's not even considering that some votes cast were fraudulent.
I would agree with you if those votes were being used and there was a sudden uplift in people voting.
Those 32.7% are not being used so how can that be fraud ?? Or is the cunning plan to stop everyone voting. "It is potential for fraud. And it is assuming that the 67.3% cast were all legitimate. Can we say with certainty that all votes cast were legitimate? | |||
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"This country as its problems like most, but the opening post is taking things out of context for what I can only think is to start a noisy thread...... We’re bottom of the GDP growth forecasts in the G20 ( Russia excluded) and have still to recover to pre pandemic levels . We have historically high unsustainable borrowing and the knowledge that lies spouted at high levels in our government are all facts . Without growth the situation becomes ever worse because of normal inflation never mind the ridiculous levels right now. We have nothing left to sell and the government are taking disgraceful action purely to remain in power . The complete lack of a plan for the betterment of people in this country is criminal . We are failing as a state and you brush it off as everyone has problems . Oh that’s ok then let’s just smile and give up . We are supposed to be the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world. Lots of people claim this but you look at the actual net wealth (cash) controlled by this country we fall a long way down that table. Our debts are enormous. We have been repeatedly failed by consecutive governments whose self interest has overridden any thought for the lives of the electorate . As a journalist recently wrote . This government has a poverty of thinking among its leaders. (The Telegraph) It’s not looking promising is it. I'm not brushing anything off, I'm reacting to the words in your first post. This is not true, it is a soundbite that has been grabbed onto. Any person eligible to vote will be able to vote, schemes are being setup now to provide anyone without ID to be given free voter ID. "new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300" MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts
"The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs"
Not exactly sure what the angle is here, is it voting for the new PM or how candidates are chosen to represent a party? Either or I'm not sure what positive alternative could be found, it would be good to hear suggestions.
"Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic?"
Not based on the above, in my opinion. Not everything is black and white, slamming and blaming is all very good but what are the answers, not soundbites, aimed to ask more questions, real alternative views that have substance.
You could form a functioning opposition if you can crack that.
Please read this link in regard to the ministers not being required to declare gifts. Chris Bryant is no fool. I saw Mordent try to defend this and she had nothing.
To give it an analogy if the MD of an engine manufacturing factory employing a thousand workers wants to make changes and he likes his FD because his FD is so supportive of the MD’s views and also very good with numbers.
So with that in mind the MD of the company gets rid of all the existing staff as they have voiced to many concerns about changes and replaces them with accounts who all agree with the boss’s view because the think their careers depend on it.
How well do you think that factory will do?
So yes I do think the country is in a mess and this political system is making it far worse. We are being governed by idiots. Having met a few ministers in my time through business I am staggered by how many are truly as thick as mince when you peel back the bullshitting. They don’t do detail. Not all I must state that but enough to worry about the ability of those in charge of this country.
These can definitely be seen both ways.
One point I'd like to pick at though, are you saying the people likely to vote against the Tories are 'usually less educated and politically aware'?
If you are saying that, surely that plays right into Tory debaters hands in them saying that other voters don't understand economics which is often a point of debate.
I’m not trying to be rude so my apologies if that’s how my post appeared but your quote here is pretty clearly saying I’m wrong.
“new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300"
MP's must declare all payments under £100 once they have received £300 in payments, no matter the size of the payment. They should also register any gift over £25, in fact the rules have been tightened up not loosened. If I have this wrong it would be good to see the facts “
Let’s park that as i think you must agree it is worrying to hide such things. Would you say that is a positive step to hide such detail.
The actual debate in parliament was a car crash for Penny Mordant and she was floundering to respond. There is no radon to hide this information other than having something to hide.
As for canvassers I will believe that when I see it but you may be correct so won’t push that point.
Can I ask given the six cases of fraud in 274milion votes why do you think the Tory party are so keen to introduce this legislation ? What could the driver be?
I believe it is to disenfranchise the poorest and most vulnerable in society, who are historically not supporters of the Tory party but I’m open to sensible alternatives .
I believe this may be a case of mistaken identity as that's definitely not my quote
My point on canvassers was just that that is what currently happens yet people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that this piece of legislation disadvantages certain people. I'd rather wait until we know for sure.
There has been so little fraud found in the UK, quite possibly because there is currently no way to detect it. That's the argument and its a legitimate one.
I personally won't argue the toss on why the Tories want it or why its needed as I personally couldn't care less whether we have ID or not. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has multiple ID already. My initial point was one of I don't agree that it disadvantages certain sections of the community.
My apologies, totally my fault obviously.
There is no fraud and they know it. Our system is very simple and those who register are ticked off as they vote. The new rules put barriers in the way of voting.
I personally want PR. To make everyone’s votes count but that’s a whole new topic.
The argument is that we don't know there is no fraud. Personally I can see where that argument comes from and it has a solid foundation. You've obviously voted before, did the staff at the polling station confirm you were who you said you were? I've never been asked.
BTW, I'll stand with you on PR.
PR would mean your vote counted. It would bring in extremists but it would balanced by having them at each end of the spectrum. It would also stop a minority government running riot with an unfair share f power compared to their popularity. .
Anyway, when you hand your mailed to you form in at the polling station you are ticked off the list. . If another person comes in claiming the same ID then the fraud investigation begins. 6 in 274 million it’s chronic.
Some people don’t vote so it’s certainly possible but why now? Nothing to do with the Tory party falling out of favour? Just coincidence I’m sure.
The American playbook all the way with boundary changes next I suspect.
I know how it currently works, there is plenty of scope for fraud though. Catching it right now is almost impossible.
At the last GE the turnout was 67.3% leaving 32.7% votes not used, that could be 32.7% fraud that isn't traceable.
Local elections England 34.6% leaving 65.4%.
That's massive scope, and that's not even considering that some votes cast were fraudulent.
There is no argument made that there is insufficient information to identify the level of voter fraud.
However, if you can find that data, pleas do go ahead and share.
Otherwise you are, I'm afraid, just making it up by making assumptions."Edited above for ease of reading . From the electoral commission whose job it is to know. “We take the risk of electoral fraud very seriously. Throughout the year, all police forces across the UK send us data about allegations of electoral fraud that they receive and investigate. Every year we report on the number, type, and outcome of these allegations, so that you can understand what’s happened and how cases are resolved.” Overview In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions. In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions. 2019 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. 2020 Covid so stats are unavailable in any meaningful form. 2021 In May 2021, elections took place across England, Wales and Scotland: Scottish Parliament Senedd Cymru Police and Crime Commissioners (England and Wales) Local councils and local mayors (England) Combined Authority Mayors (England) Mayor of London and London Assembly Many of these polls had been postponed from 2020. There were also six UK parliamentary by-elections during 2021. 315 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police during 2021. None of these cases led to a conviction. Police issued cautions in one case. “ There have been four convictions in the previous four years . So in conclusion as I stated earlier I believe the new rules are a ruse to disenfranchise the young, the young, the poor and the generally disadvantaged in society. All of these groups are statistically less likely to vote Tory. They are raising this as Trump has done to create doubt where factually there should be none. The lies continue , a million Turks , 50k extra nurses, 20k extra policemen. No borders in the Irish sea, oven ready, seamless trade. Great trade deal, record spending by this government this year . By default inflation means record spending every year. The biggest lie . Trickle down economics. If we continue to allow the lies given by this government and lies become the norm then they will continue to gradually erode any real democracy. We will end up with a one party state who control the media and tell you what they think you need to be told. Let’s see how your existing rights pan out then and see if that leads to more or less holiday entitlement or sick pay or maternity leave . The American model is the aim minus any meaningful elections. Does anyone want o defend a politician choosing who can protest in this country or put an argument to support ministers hiding the value of gifts? Not much support for those I noticed. | |||
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" Edited above for ease of reading . From the electoral commission whose job it is to know. “We take the risk of electoral fraud very seriously. Throughout the year, all police forces across the UK send us data about allegations of electoral fraud that they receive and investigate. Every year we report on the number, type, and outcome of these allegations, so that you can understand what’s happened and how cases are resolved.” Overview In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions. In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions. 2019 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. 2020 Covid so stats are unavailable in any meaningful form. 2021 In May 2021, elections took place across England, Wales and Scotland: Scottish Parliament Senedd Cymru Police and Crime Commissioners (England and Wales) Local councils and local mayors (England) Combined Authority Mayors (England) Mayor of London and London Assembly Many of these polls had been postponed from 2020. There were also six UK parliamentary by-elections during 2021. 315 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police during 2021. None of these cases led to a conviction. Police issued cautions in one case. “ There have been four convictions in the previous four years . So in conclusion as I stated earlier I believe the new rules are a ruse to disenfranchise the young, the young, the poor and the generally disadvantaged in society. All of these groups are statistically less likely to vote Tory. They are raising this as Trump has done to create doubt where factually there should be none. The lies continue , a million Turks , 50k extra nurses, 20k extra policemen. No borders in the Irish sea, oven ready, seamless trade. Great trade deal, record spending by this government this year . By default inflation means record spending every year. The biggest lie . Trickle down economics. If we continue to allow the lies given by this government and lies become the norm then they will continue to gradually erode any real democracy. We will end up with a one party state who control the media and tell you what they think you need to be told. Let’s see how your existing rights pan out then and see if that leads to more or less holiday entitlement or sick pay or maternity leave . The American model is the aim minus any meaningful elections. Does anyone want o defend a politician choosing who can protest in this country or put an argument to support ministers hiding the value of gifts? Not much support for those I noticed. " The electoral commission also said 'It is important that the UK’s electoral system is both secure and accessible. There are already checks in place to confirm a voter’s identity if they are voting by post. But there are no similar checks in place at polling stations in Great Britain to prevent someone claiming to be someone else and voting in their name. This makes polling station voting in Great Britain vulnerable to fraud.' There will be free ID to anyone who doesn't currently have approved ID. If the young, poor or generally disadvantaged want to vote, this will not stop them. | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . More utter dross I see!! If all you have is nonsense please post your own topic . Maybe call it “my favourite trolls to post”. I’m sure it will be very amusing. This debate has been interesting to read and I’ve enjoyed the challenges to my statements. You’re just ridiculous and seriously lower the quality of the debate. Please move along to the comedy section. " . Quote happy for my post to be described by one person as utter dross . Luckily what matters is what happens in real life , not what is posted on by one person on an Internet forum. Last time I checked my views were supported by a significant proportion of the electorate. That is the reality check for most rational people. The results of the last few elections are self explanatory. Champagne socialists are simply a very small section of society. It is rather ironic considering the topic that free speech should only apply to your opinions and others should be silenced . I will stick to what I believe the majority of the electorate want and not be fooled by the ideas of champagne socialists. | |||
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" Edited above for ease of reading . From the electoral commission whose job it is to know. “We take the risk of electoral fraud very seriously. Throughout the year, all police forces across the UK send us data about allegations of electoral fraud that they receive and investigate. Every year we report on the number, type, and outcome of these allegations, so that you can understand what’s happened and how cases are resolved.” Overview In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions. In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions. 2019 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. 2020 Covid so stats are unavailable in any meaningful form. 2021 In May 2021, elections took place across England, Wales and Scotland: Scottish Parliament Senedd Cymru Police and Crime Commissioners (England and Wales) Local councils and local mayors (England) Combined Authority Mayors (England) Mayor of London and London Assembly Many of these polls had been postponed from 2020. There were also six UK parliamentary by-elections during 2021. 315 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police during 2021. None of these cases led to a conviction. Police issued cautions in one case. “ There have been four convictions in the previous four years . So in conclusion as I stated earlier I believe the new rules are a ruse to disenfranchise the young, the young, the poor and the generally disadvantaged in society. All of these groups are statistically less likely to vote Tory. They are raising this as Trump has done to create doubt where factually there should be none. The lies continue , a million Turks , 50k extra nurses, 20k extra policemen. No borders in the Irish sea, oven ready, seamless trade. Great trade deal, record spending by this government this year . By default inflation means record spending every year. The biggest lie . Trickle down economics. If we continue to allow the lies given by this government and lies become the norm then they will continue to gradually erode any real democracy. We will end up with a one party state who control the media and tell you what they think you need to be told. Let’s see how your existing rights pan out then and see if that leads to more or less holiday entitlement or sick pay or maternity leave . The American model is the aim minus any meaningful elections. Does anyone want o defend a politician choosing who can protest in this country or put an argument to support ministers hiding the value of gifts? Not much support for those I noticed. The electoral commission also said 'It is important that the UK’s electoral system is both secure and accessible. There are already checks in place to confirm a voter’s identity if they are voting by post. But there are no similar checks in place at polling stations in Great Britain to prevent someone claiming to be someone else and voting in their name. This makes polling station voting in Great Britain vulnerable to fraud.' There will be free ID to anyone who doesn't currently have approved ID. If the young, poor or generally disadvantaged want to vote, this will not stop them." The part that anyone who is eligible to vote will be given free voter ID and supported through the process in obtaining that ID is simply brushed under the carpet. It does not play into the narrative of underhand plotting to remove people from voting. The way this was jumped on with a one sided view of certain members of the public being disenfranchised, reminded me of the covid / 5G conspiracy stories. | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . More utter dross I see!! If all you have is nonsense please post your own topic . Maybe call it “my favourite trolls to post”. I’m sure it will be very amusing. This debate has been interesting to read and I’ve enjoyed the challenges to my statements. You’re just ridiculous and seriously lower the quality of the debate. Please move along to the comedy section. . Quote happy for my post to be described by one person as utter dross . Luckily what matters is what happens in real life , not what is posted on by one person on an Internet forum. Last time I checked my views were supported by a significant proportion of the electorate. That is the reality check for most rational people. The results of the last few elections are self explanatory. Champagne socialists are simply a very small section of society. It is rather ironic considering the topic that free speech should only apply to your opinions and others should be silenced . I will stick to what I believe the majority of the electorate want and not be fooled by the ideas of champagne socialists. " The majority of people in Germany in 1936 wanted the Nazis. Just saying! | |||
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" Edited above for ease of reading . From the electoral commission whose job it is to know. “We take the risk of electoral fraud very seriously. Throughout the year, all police forces across the UK send us data about allegations of electoral fraud that they receive and investigate. Every year we report on the number, type, and outcome of these allegations, so that you can understand what’s happened and how cases are resolved.” Overview In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions. In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions. 2019 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. 2020 Covid so stats are unavailable in any meaningful form. 2021 In May 2021, elections took place across England, Wales and Scotland: Scottish Parliament Senedd Cymru Police and Crime Commissioners (England and Wales) Local councils and local mayors (England) Combined Authority Mayors (England) Mayor of London and London Assembly Many of these polls had been postponed from 2020. There were also six UK parliamentary by-elections during 2021. 315 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police during 2021. None of these cases led to a conviction. Police issued cautions in one case. “ There have been four convictions in the previous four years . So in conclusion as I stated earlier I believe the new rules are a ruse to disenfranchise the young, the young, the poor and the generally disadvantaged in society. All of these groups are statistically less likely to vote Tory. They are raising this as Trump has done to create doubt where factually there should be none. The lies continue , a million Turks , 50k extra nurses, 20k extra policemen. No borders in the Irish sea, oven ready, seamless trade. Great trade deal, record spending by this government this year . By default inflation means record spending every year. The biggest lie . Trickle down economics. If we continue to allow the lies given by this government and lies become the norm then they will continue to gradually erode any real democracy. We will end up with a one party state who control the media and tell you what they think you need to be told. Let’s see how your existing rights pan out then and see if that leads to more or less holiday entitlement or sick pay or maternity leave . The American model is the aim minus any meaningful elections. Does anyone want o defend a politician choosing who can protest in this country or put an argument to support ministers hiding the value of gifts? Not much support for those I noticed. The electoral commission also said 'It is important that the UK’s electoral system is both secure and accessible. There are already checks in place to confirm a voter’s identity if they are voting by post. But there are no similar checks in place at polling stations in Great Britain to prevent someone claiming to be someone else and voting in their name. This makes polling station voting in Great Britain vulnerable to fraud.' There will be free ID to anyone who doesn't currently have approved ID. If the young, poor or generally disadvantaged want to vote, this will not stop them." Like I said let’s hope canvassers are sent out but I doubt it. Strangely the labour party and a lot of charities believe it will exclude a lot of people including I understand amnesty international. ( I can’t find the quote but remember reading it) Amnesty international are also against our new anti protest laws and our borders bill . A freedom and democracy non political charity is criticising this government a lot. Is that a good thing? Let’s look at the risk of fraud in general because it’s difficult to see how mass fraud can be carried out . Everyone has a card to take into the polling station so are gangs going to be taking these cards ? It’s only one vote so that’s a big gang to get any meaningful numbers . Let’s assume they do acquire say five hundred voter forms. They then have to visit the polling stations and hope they are not recognised as a repeat visitor and also hope not one of the five hundred people who’ve had their card taken report it . So whilst that is indeed possible that’s not going to happen as it’s inefficient and far to risky. Maybe mail in votes . Great but a lot of work and you have no idea which way they are voting so you could be damaging your side. No the only way any serious voter fraud is happening is after the votes have been cast. So losing a ballot box if you know that’s an area that voted against you . Those boxes are sealed and tagged and recorded by multiple people doing multiple checks so again difficult in any meaningful way. Insider who manipulates the numbers . The numbers are verified by multiple people so again that’s a lot of bribing to get one MP a few hundred votes . Again possible but not related to ID The only way I can see of a real problem is through electoral counting machines and who controls them . Either way all the risk is after the vote has been made not before . It’s a made up threat . | |||
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" Edited above for ease of reading . From the electoral commission whose job it is to know. “We take the risk of electoral fraud very seriously. Throughout the year, all police forces across the UK send us data about allegations of electoral fraud that they receive and investigate. Every year we report on the number, type, and outcome of these allegations, so that you can understand what’s happened and how cases are resolved.” Overview In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions. In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions. 2019 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. 2020 Covid so stats are unavailable in any meaningful form. 2021 In May 2021, elections took place across England, Wales and Scotland: Scottish Parliament Senedd Cymru Police and Crime Commissioners (England and Wales) Local councils and local mayors (England) Combined Authority Mayors (England) Mayor of London and London Assembly Many of these polls had been postponed from 2020. There were also six UK parliamentary by-elections during 2021. 315 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police during 2021. None of these cases led to a conviction. Police issued cautions in one case. “ There have been four convictions in the previous four years . So in conclusion as I stated earlier I believe the new rules are a ruse to disenfranchise the young, the young, the poor and the generally disadvantaged in society. All of these groups are statistically less likely to vote Tory. They are raising this as Trump has done to create doubt where factually there should be none. The lies continue , a million Turks , 50k extra nurses, 20k extra policemen. No borders in the Irish sea, oven ready, seamless trade. Great trade deal, record spending by this government this year . By default inflation means record spending every year. The biggest lie . Trickle down economics. If we continue to allow the lies given by this government and lies become the norm then they will continue to gradually erode any real democracy. We will end up with a one party state who control the media and tell you what they think you need to be told. Let’s see how your existing rights pan out then and see if that leads to more or less holiday entitlement or sick pay or maternity leave . The American model is the aim minus any meaningful elections. Does anyone want o defend a politician choosing who can protest in this country or put an argument to support ministers hiding the value of gifts? Not much support for those I noticed. The electoral commission also said 'It is important that the UK’s electoral system is both secure and accessible. There are already checks in place to confirm a voter’s identity if they are voting by post. But there are no similar checks in place at polling stations in Great Britain to prevent someone claiming to be someone else and voting in their name. This makes polling station voting in Great Britain vulnerable to fraud.' There will be free ID to anyone who doesn't currently have approved ID. If the young, poor or generally disadvantaged want to vote, this will not stop them. Like I said let’s hope canvassers are sent out but I doubt it. Strangely the labour party and a lot of charities believe it will exclude a lot of people including I understand amnesty international. ( I can’t find the quote but remember reading it) Amnesty international are also against our new anti protest laws and our borders bill . A freedom and democracy non political charity is criticising this government a lot. Is that a good thing? Let’s look at the risk of fraud in general because it’s difficult to see how mass fraud can be carried out . Everyone has a card to take into the polling station so are gangs going to be taking these cards ? It’s only one vote so that’s a big gang to get any meaningful numbers . Let’s assume they do acquire say five hundred voter forms. They then have to visit the polling stations and hope they are not recognised as a repeat visitor and also hope not one of the five hundred people who’ve had their card taken report it . So whilst that is indeed possible that’s not going to happen as it’s inefficient and far to risky. Maybe mail in votes . Great but a lot of work and you have no idea which way they are voting so you could be damaging your side. No the only way any serious voter fraud is happening is after the votes have been cast. So losing a ballot box if you know that’s an area that voted against you . Those boxes are sealed and tagged and recorded by multiple people doing multiple checks so again difficult in any meaningful way. Insider who manipulates the numbers . The numbers are verified by multiple people so again that’s a lot of bribing to get one MP a few hundred votes . Again possible but not related to ID The only way I can see of a real problem is through electoral counting machines and who controls them . Either way all the risk is after the vote has been made not before . It’s a made up threat . " I'm not arguing against the fact that there is little voter fraud. I'm arguing that we don't actually know, there is no way to currently detect it. I'm also arguing that I don't believe the ID disenfranchises anyone. Yeah, it'll be an extra thing to obtain but it's a mild inconvenience should someone want to vote | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling." Who is lapping it up? Have you actually read this thread? | |||
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" Edited above for ease of reading . From the electoral commission whose job it is to know. “We take the risk of electoral fraud very seriously. Throughout the year, all police forces across the UK send us data about allegations of electoral fraud that they receive and investigate. Every year we report on the number, type, and outcome of these allegations, so that you can understand what’s happened and how cases are resolved.” Overview In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud. Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions. In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions. 2019 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. 2020 Covid so stats are unavailable in any meaningful form. 2021 In May 2021, elections took place across England, Wales and Scotland: Scottish Parliament Senedd Cymru Police and Crime Commissioners (England and Wales) Local councils and local mayors (England) Combined Authority Mayors (England) Mayor of London and London Assembly Many of these polls had been postponed from 2020. There were also six UK parliamentary by-elections during 2021. 315 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police during 2021. None of these cases led to a conviction. Police issued cautions in one case. “ There have been four convictions in the previous four years . So in conclusion as I stated earlier I believe the new rules are a ruse to disenfranchise the young, the young, the poor and the generally disadvantaged in society. All of these groups are statistically less likely to vote Tory. They are raising this as Trump has done to create doubt where factually there should be none. The lies continue , a million Turks , 50k extra nurses, 20k extra policemen. No borders in the Irish sea, oven ready, seamless trade. Great trade deal, record spending by this government this year . By default inflation means record spending every year. The biggest lie . Trickle down economics. If we continue to allow the lies given by this government and lies become the norm then they will continue to gradually erode any real democracy. We will end up with a one party state who control the media and tell you what they think you need to be told. Let’s see how your existing rights pan out then and see if that leads to more or less holiday entitlement or sick pay or maternity leave . The American model is the aim minus any meaningful elections. Does anyone want o defend a politician choosing who can protest in this country or put an argument to support ministers hiding the value of gifts? Not much support for those I noticed. The electoral commission also said 'It is important that the UK’s electoral system is both secure and accessible. There are already checks in place to confirm a voter’s identity if they are voting by post. But there are no similar checks in place at polling stations in Great Britain to prevent someone claiming to be someone else and voting in their name. This makes polling station voting in Great Britain vulnerable to fraud.' There will be free ID to anyone who doesn't currently have approved ID. If the young, poor or generally disadvantaged want to vote, this will not stop them. Like I said let’s hope canvassers are sent out but I doubt it. Strangely the labour party and a lot of charities believe it will exclude a lot of people including I understand amnesty international. ( I can’t find the quote but remember reading it) Amnesty international are also against our new anti protest laws and our borders bill . A freedom and democracy non political charity is criticising this government a lot. Is that a good thing? Let’s look at the risk of fraud in general because it’s difficult to see how mass fraud can be carried out . Everyone has a card to take into the polling station so are gangs going to be taking these cards ? It’s only one vote so that’s a big gang to get any meaningful numbers . Let’s assume they do acquire say five hundred voter forms. They then have to visit the polling stations and hope they are not recognised as a repeat visitor and also hope not one of the five hundred people who’ve had their card taken report it . So whilst that is indeed possible that’s not going to happen as it’s inefficient and far to risky. Maybe mail in votes . Great but a lot of work and you have no idea which way they are voting so you could be damaging your side. No the only way any serious voter fraud is happening is after the votes have been cast. So losing a ballot box if you know that’s an area that voted against you . Those boxes are sealed and tagged and recorded by multiple people doing multiple checks so again difficult in any meaningful way. Insider who manipulates the numbers . The numbers are verified by multiple people so again that’s a lot of bribing to get one MP a few hundred votes . Again possible but not related to ID The only way I can see of a real problem is through electoral counting machines and who controls them . Either way all the risk is after the vote has been made not before . It’s a made up threat . " One person taking another persons vote is enough to look at tightening up areas that can be manipulated. You are taking the idea of fraud and applying to organised gangs and mass attempts. Take a step back and look at everything arounds us from GDPR, credit cards, signing into an app, they all require some sort of recognition to prevent fraud to the individual. This step is moving us to that position with voting and as previously mentioned many times, and equally ignored many times.... Any person without photo ID will be given voter ID for free and supported through the process | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling." . You might need to look at what happened in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough. We should be supporting all measures to fight election fraud. | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling. Who is lapping it up? Have you actually read this thread?" Yes I have. Sigh. | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling. Who is lapping it up? Have you actually read this thread? Yes I have. Sigh." Where do you get the idea that people lap it up then? | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling. Who is lapping it up? Have you actually read this thread? Yes I have. Sigh. Where do you get the idea that people lap it up then?" Um because I read the thread... | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling. Who is lapping it up? Have you actually read this thread? Yes I have. Sigh. Where do you get the idea that people lap it up then? Um because I read the thread..." I've already asked who's lapping it up but you choose to ignore that. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . " I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. | |||
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"Voter fraud is a non-issue on this country. But certain people still lap it up. Baffling. . You might need to look at what happened in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough. We should be supporting all measures to fight election fraud. " Election fraud is irrelevant , your average working person doesn’t care and isn’t talking about it (this is your usual response ) | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it." Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues." Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist?" The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***?" Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here "Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on. Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!) | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here "It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction. Sweet irony... | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony..."I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
"The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you.... | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)"Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID? I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you...."I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject. I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud'  | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you....
I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud' "Seems you agree there isn't a worrying amount of voter fraud. Fine. So this is a non-issue for you too. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you....
I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud'
Seems you agree there isn't a worrying amount of voter fraud. Fine. So this is a non-issue for you too."I don't believe the introduction of the ID is an issue either. You'd know this if you'd have read the thread. I do take issue with you calling people conspiracy theorists and trying to speak of irony though. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy "Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that? Simply not needed! | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you....
I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud'
Seems you agree there isn't a worrying amount of voter fraud. Fine. So this is a non-issue for you too.
I don't believe the introduction of the ID is an issue either. You'd know this if you'd have read the thread.
I do take issue with you calling people conspiracy theorists and trying to speak of irony though."The other chap 1st brought up conspiracy noise lol. I simply pointed out the irony. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you....
I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud'
Seems you agree there isn't a worrying amount of voter fraud. Fine. So this is a non-issue for you too.
I don't believe the introduction of the ID is an issue either. You'd know this if you'd have read the thread.
I do take issue with you calling people conspiracy theorists and trying to speak of irony though.
The other chap 1st brought up conspiracy noise lol. I simply pointed out the irony."Yeah OK. Maybe go back and read the words you wrote yourself. If you can't see it I don't have the time to explain it | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you....
I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud'
Seems you agree there isn't a worrying amount of voter fraud. Fine. So this is a non-issue for you too.
I don't believe the introduction of the ID is an issue either. You'd know this if you'd have read the thread.
I do take issue with you calling people conspiracy theorists and trying to speak of irony though.
The other chap 1st brought up conspiracy noise lol. I simply pointed out the irony.
Yeah OK. Maybe go back and read the words you wrote yourself. If you can't see it I don't have the time to explain it"Read who 1st brought up conspiracy. Pretty sure it wasn't me. Anyway, it feels like you're desperately seeking any reason to argue with me. So be well. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
It certainly seems to be distracting you. The v same person who seems to be arguing this is a real issue rather than a distraction.
Sweet irony...
I'm offering a balanced alternative view, unlike a lot of the conspiracy noise I keep hearing.
The conspiracy noise here is actually that there is worrying amounts of voter fraud. There isn't. Another sweet irony for you....
I think it's only myself and notme who have spoken on this particular subject.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I haven't seen either of us speak of 'worrying amounts of voter fraud'
Seems you agree there isn't a worrying amount of voter fraud. Fine. So this is a non-issue for you too.
I don't believe the introduction of the ID is an issue either. You'd know this if you'd have read the thread.
I do take issue with you calling people conspiracy theorists and trying to speak of irony though.
The other chap 1st brought up conspiracy noise lol. I simply pointed out the irony.
Yeah OK. Maybe go back and read the words you wrote yourself. If you can't see it I don't have the time to explain it
Read who 1st brought up conspiracy. Pretty sure it wasn't me.
Anyway, it feels like you're desperately seeking any reason to argue with me. So be well. "Did you read what I take issue with? I don't think you did. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!"You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this. Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it. Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen? | |||
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"Thanks for proving my point. As I said, be well." The point you're trying to make isn't what I took issue with
Enjoy your day | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?"I'm really worried about all these dragons, me. Can we please introduce some sort of dragon defence for the country? A catapult to fire flaming rocks in every city? | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
I'm really worried about all these dragons, me. Can we please introduce some sort of dragon defence for the country? A catapult to fire flaming rocks in every city?"Thank you | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
I'm really worried about all these dragons, me. Can we please introduce some sort of dragon defence for the country? A catapult to fire flaming rocks in every city?
Thank you "So you agree defence against dragons should be brought into the 21st century? | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
I'm really worried about all these dragons, me. Can we please introduce some sort of dragon defence for the country? A catapult to fire flaming rocks in every city?
Thank you
So you agree defence against dragons should be brought into the 21st century?"You have lost me pal, lost as in interacting. Well done | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?"My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
I'm really worried about all these dragons, me. Can we please introduce some sort of dragon defence for the country? A catapult to fire flaming rocks in every city?
Thank you
So you agree defence against dragons should be brought into the 21st century?
You have lost me pal, lost as in interacting. Well done "Just applying your impressive logic. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route."So no argument? | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument? "Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary. The argument against voter ID reform is: 1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address. 2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1. Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort."No need to be rude... You have your view I have mine | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort.
No need to be rude...
You have your view I have mine"Where have I been rude? You seem to be pushing for an argument where there clearly is no need for one. As I said it is a non issue so a complete waste of time! | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort.". Most people would regard fighting fraud as bring beneficial to society. I think one councilor in Tower Hamlets has already been jailed for election fraud and the results in Peterborough were dubious. I would like to see anyone involved in election fraud sent to prison . | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . More utter dross I see!! If all you have is nonsense please post your own topic . Maybe call it “my favourite trolls to post”. I’m sure it will be very amusing. This debate has been interesting to read and I’ve enjoyed the challenges to my statements. You’re just ridiculous and seriously lower the quality of the debate. Please move along to the comedy section. " . Intesting comments. It looks like some people do not believe in democracy unless opinions expressed happen to agree with theirs . I will just accept the view of the electorate and the results of the last three elections plus the referendum. Respecting other peoples opinions is good enough for me . Most people are not going to be influenced by a highly vocal minority. The beauty of an election is than no one knows how you vote so it is a true reflection of public opinion. If you mix with a wide variety of people on a day to day basis you get a good idea of people's opinions on a day to day basis . These are then reinforced by subsequent election results . These forums are simply a place to pass idle time . They are hardly a place for serious discussion in the real world which is what matters. | |||
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"Quit complaining, just over 100 years ago we were sending waves of men who couldn't even vote into machine gun fire." | |||
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"So we have new rules restricting the right of everyone to protest. We have new potential rules being brought in to reduce workers rights. We have new rules disenfranchising the vote for the poor and young. Voter ID We have new rules that ministers are now exempt from declaring gifts over £300 in any timely manner and at no time do they have to reveal the value of those gifts. Think formula 1 , World Cup final tickets, villas, private jets! The head offices of the political parties chose who we can vote for in the case of 60% of all MPs. Are we moving more and more towards becoming a banana republic? Anyone who does not like their job usually moves elsewhere so we do not have to worry about workers rights Our working conditions are excellent. Protestors are an irrelevant highly vocal minority who are a plight on society and ordinary decent people The right to protest is not being removed. We are protecting ordinary hard working people and ensuring that people protest whee they will not inconvenience anyone. Electorate fraud is a dispicable offence and we should he fully supportive of attempts to stop crime. It has occurred in Tower Hamlets and Peterborough MPs work extremely hard and all gifts are declared. I cannot see many people being bothered about this. They simply recognise the valuable contribution that their MP makes to society and democracy. Try protesting in Chins and see what happens to you . More utter dross I see!! If all you have is nonsense please post your own topic . Maybe call it “my favourite trolls to post”. I’m sure it will be very amusing. This debate has been interesting to read and I’ve enjoyed the challenges to my statements. You’re just ridiculous and seriously lower the quality of the debate. Please move along to the comedy section. . Intesting comments. It looks like some people do not believe in democracy unless opinions expressed happen to agree with theirs . I will just accept the view of the electorate and the results of the last three elections plus the referendum. Respecting other peoples opinions is good enough for me . Most people are not going to be influenced by a highly vocal minority. The beauty of an election is than no one knows how you vote so it is a true reflection of public opinion. If you mix with a wide variety of people on a day to day basis you get a good idea of people's opinions on a day to day basis . These are then reinforced by subsequent election results . These forums are simply a place to pass idle time . They are hardly a place for serious discussion in the real world which is what matters. " I don’t know Pat, perhaps you shouldn’t trouble yourself with these matters if you don’t understand them? | |||
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"Funny old thread this….it exemplifies why this is such a waste of time….the fact is electoral fraud appears to be minimal according to the electoral commission….the options of voter ID are pretty half arsed both in terms of what is acceptable, or available and whether people will go to the effort of getting what is offered….inevitably this will remove poorer and less interested voters from the process….the only way to tell if this will make a difference will be to see how much the percentage of voters varies at the next election….if it declines then the process will be proven to have damaged democracy in which case will there be any repercussions for those who introduced the policy? Unlikely I would think. Perhaps we should be looking at ID cards for the whole nation so that spurious nonsense like this will forever be dismissed?" An ID card would be a resolution but I'm as sure as night follows day the immediate uproar and inevitable comparisons to the Chinese social system would blow my eardrums. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort.. Most people would regard fighting fraud as bring beneficial to society. I think one councilor in Tower Hamlets has already been jailed for election fraud and the results in Peterborough were dubious.
I would like to see anyone involved in election fraud sent to prison . "Oh Pat... “The Metropolitan police said on Friday it had concluded a £1.7m, year-long investigation, but “has not identified sufficient additional evidence or investigative opportunities to enable the Met to request the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider the charging of any individual in relation to offences of electoral fraud and malpractice arising from the 2014 mayoral election”. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort.. Most people would regard fighting fraud as bring beneficial to society. I think one councilor in Tower Hamlets has already been jailed for election fraud and the results in Peterborough were dubious.
I would like to see anyone involved in election fraud sent to prison .
Oh Pat...
“The Metropolitan police said on Friday it had concluded a £1.7m, year-long investigation, but “has not identified sufficient additional evidence or investigative opportunities to enable the Met to request the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider the charging of any individual in relation to offences of electoral fraud and malpractice arising from the 2014 mayoral election”.". All they said is that there was insufficient evidence to charge someone, they did not say that fraud did not take place. . | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort.. Most people would regard fighting fraud as bring beneficial to society. I think one councilor in Tower Hamlets has already been jailed for election fraud and the results in Peterborough were dubious.
I would like to see anyone involved in election fraud sent to prison .
Oh Pat...
“The Metropolitan police said on Friday it had concluded a £1.7m, year-long investigation, but “has not identified sufficient additional evidence or investigative opportunities to enable the Met to request the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider the charging of any individual in relation to offences of electoral fraud and malpractice arising from the 2014 mayoral election”.. All they said is that there was insufficient evidence to charge someone, they did not say that fraud did not take place. . "Sorry that is not how the law works. Innocent until proven guilty. Lack of evidence means nothing to prosecute. We cannot just go on gut instinct or spurious accusations! BTW they did find evidence of something else but it was nothing to do with voter fraud! | |||
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"On the whole this voter ID idea still seems like a solution seeking a problem. However I have a voter card posted to me for each election and every time I go along they never ask me to show it. All I need to do is give my name and address. Maybe a simpler way of tightening the rules is to insist you present your card at the polling station. If they do go ahead with the ID then it's good to hear that people can get it free and support in the process. I'm not sure why it disadvantages some, but that's what I hear. Anyway it can simply be scrapped after the next GE by the new government" You’ve just proven the point. It is a non issue. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here
Already established this is not an issue. The “gaps” are so minuscule as to be irrelevant. There are far better and more pressing things for our civil servants etc to be working on.
Personally I would rather re-allocate all the resources looking at this issue into identifying and tracing fraudulent PPE contracts and Furlough Fraud and start recovering some of that money (yes yes I know skillsets and all that...my point is get your priorities right!)
Do you know where the resource is coming from to provide voter ID?
I love how this small change is rattling so many cages, crazy
Not rattled just see this as another white elephant that is going to ultimately cost tax payers to solve a non issue. A complete waste of time and effort. This sort of change in process doesn’t just happen. And as all those people who do not currently have valid photo ID will be provided with one gratis then who is resourcing and funding that?
Simply not needed!
You do not have a strong argument or an argument for not doing this.
Voting ID needs bringing into the 21st century, and this is the start of it.
Other than you thinking it is not an issue, the cost and people working on it, which you have no numbers, do you have any other reason this should not happen?
My points are as valid, if not more, than yours. There is no issue to resolve. It will cost money. Simple. I do not need to provide numbers because it simply is true. Your assertion that “it brings us into the 21st century” is meaningless and frankly bonkers. If you want 21st century then go down the digital route.
So no argument?
Huh? You’ve lost the room and are not adding any value beyond being contrary.
The argument against voter ID reform is:
1. There are minuscule cases of fraud. Tiny. Ergo there is no problem to address.
2. There are costs to the public purse (such as time spent by Civil Servants developing policy, developing a “free” photo ID alternative. Producing and supplying said alternative etc). It is a waste of public money and time because of point 1.
Nothing more needs to said. Complete waste of effort.. Most people would regard fighting fraud as bring beneficial to society. I think one councilor in Tower Hamlets has already been jailed for election fraud and the results in Peterborough were dubious.
I would like to see anyone involved in election fraud sent to prison .
Oh Pat...
“The Metropolitan police said on Friday it had concluded a £1.7m, year-long investigation, but “has not identified sufficient additional evidence or investigative opportunities to enable the Met to request the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider the charging of any individual in relation to offences of electoral fraud and malpractice arising from the 2014 mayoral election”.. All they said is that there was insufficient evidence to charge someone, they did not say that fraud did not take place. . "Nobody cares about a few incidents of alleged voter fraud, the average working person in the UK isn’t talking about it | |||
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"On the whole this voter ID idea still seems like a solution seeking a problem. However I have a voter card posted to me for each election and every time I go along they never ask me to show it. All I need to do is give my name and address. Maybe a simpler way of tightening the rules is to insist you present your card at the polling station. If they do go ahead with the ID then it's good to hear that people can get it free and support in the process. I'm not sure why it disadvantages some, but that's what I hear. Anyway it can simply be scrapped after the next GE by the new government You’ve just proven the point. It is a non issue." It's just my opinion so certainly not proof | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Is it needed? Is it a priority? How much will it cost (govt not individual)? Why bother? Bigger fish to fry. Far bigger. Govt attention should be on those issues. Do you think gaps should bot be plugged if they exist? The matter was first raised in 2014 by the Electoral Commission, but it has become a priority now whilst the NHS is under extreme pressure and there is a cost of living crisis , widespread strikes and a looming global recession. What the actual f***? Indeed what the actual.... You are making up your own story here! This has been on the table for a while and it is being dealt with now. To think something so simplistic would be a distraction from the problems of the country is mind blowing, although coming to think of it, it is actually distracting a fair few heads on here "No story being made up. There's a non-problem that suddenly needs money and time and resource whilst we are under-resourced in the midst of multiple genuine crises. You think that stuff like this is "simplistic"? I don't think I'd want you as a consultant... | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it." Yes I know and they will read like a great plan. Just like the care plan system for elderly in the U.K. . Having been directly involved with family members the reality bares no resemblance to the well presented plan. The resources are just not there for something as important as health care so not a chance for searching out non ID holding citizens. We can agree to disagree on the merits of the plan. Given the size of the frauds it’s a waste of time and badly needed money. Why would the government spend millions on the project when the fraud is worth a few thousand in court costs? Ridiculous when you give it a rational approach . From a financial approach millions will be spent if not hundreds of millions . If I told you six people on six individual occasions stole a newspaper from their local news agent over the last six years would anyone recommend spending hundreds of millions on the newspaper theft issue? It’s a crime isn’t it!! We need to clamp down. It’s a bit like spending hundred a of millions on the Rwanda scheme when the reality is only a few thousand asylum seekers arriving on boats are actually rejected.. It’s a bad allocation of limited funds and inefficient in the extreme. Providing safe routes would be far more efficient and a thousand times cheaper. It would also close the smugglers business model by default . The limited number of rejections wouldn’t be worth the smugglers trouble so they’d find another criminal activity. Win win . The problem is shutting down the problem will stop the rabid distracting rallying call of the right wing .. we can’t have that can we.. Footnote : As I mentioned in a previous post above regarding hiding fraud by voters is difficult. Lots of posts have commented on the case in Tower Hamlets 9 years ago. That case came about by people reporting it to the police. It’s not that easy is it. A third of the alleged fraud was by post so again no use for ID to be shown. A lot of the rest 52% was various bits of manipulation of the register by councillors allegedly. ID cards not a help again. . I think we’ve established it’s a non issue being made to look like a massive problem . I do wonder why.
Interesting how no one defended the gifts or politically controlling of who can protest.
Pat yes that’s correct your comments don’t count. .. only kidding keep up the trolling it’s comedy gold.
Anyway I think it’s run its course and we can leave it there. Thanks for debating. | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Yes I know and they will read like a great plan. Just like the care plan system for elderly in the U.K. . Having been directly involved with family members the reality bares no resemblance to the well presented plan. The resources are just not there for something as important as health care so not a chance for searching out non ID holding citizens. We can agree to disagree on the merits of the plan. Given the size of the frauds it’s a waste of time and badly needed money. Why would the government spend millions on the project when the fraud is worth a few thousand in court costs? Ridiculous when you give it a rational approach . From a financial approach millions will be spent if not hundreds of millions . If I told you six people on six individual occasions stole a newspaper from their local news agent over the last six years would anyone recommend spending hundreds of millions on the newspaper theft issue? It’s a crime isn’t it!! We need to clamp down. It’s a bit like spending hundred a of millions on the Rwanda scheme when the reality is only a few thousand asylum seekers arriving on boats are actually rejected.. It’s a bad allocation of limited funds and inefficient in the extreme. Providing safe routes would be far more efficient and a thousand times cheaper. It would also close the smugglers business model by default . The limited number of rejections wouldn’t be worth the smugglers trouble so they’d find another criminal activity. Win win . The problem is shutting down the problem will stop the rabid distracting rallying call of the right wing .. we can’t have that can we.. Footnote : As I mentioned in a previous post above regarding hiding fraud by voters is difficult. Lots of posts have commented on the case in Tower Hamlets 9 years ago. That case came about by people reporting it to the police. It’s not that easy is it. A third of the alleged fraud was by post so again no use for ID to be shown. A lot of the rest 52% was various bits of manipulation of the register by councillors allegedly. ID cards not a help again. . I think we’ve established it’s a non issue being made to look like a massive problem . I do wonder why.
Interesting how no one defended the gifts or politically controlling of who can protest.
Pat yes that’s correct your comments don’t count. .. only kidding keep up the trolling it’s comedy gold.
Anyway I think it’s run its course and we can leave it there. Thanks for debating. "Oh no….what will Pat do now? Spare a thought for the old fella! | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Yes I know and they will read like a great plan. Just like the care plan system for elderly in the U.K. . Having been directly involved with family members the reality bares no resemblance to the well presented plan. The resources are just not there for something as important as health care so not a chance for searching out non ID holding citizens. We can agree to disagree on the merits of the plan. Given the size of the frauds it’s a waste of time and badly needed money. Why would the government spend millions on the project when the fraud is worth a few thousand in court costs? Ridiculous when you give it a rational approach . From a financial approach millions will be spent if not hundreds of millions . If I told you six people on six individual occasions stole a newspaper from their local news agent over the last six years would anyone recommend spending hundreds of millions on the newspaper theft issue? It’s a crime isn’t it!! We need to clamp down. It’s a bit like spending hundred a of millions on the Rwanda scheme when the reality is only a few thousand asylum seekers arriving on boats are actually rejected.. It’s a bad allocation of limited funds and inefficient in the extreme. Providing safe routes would be far more efficient and a thousand times cheaper. It would also close the smugglers business model by default . The limited number of rejections wouldn’t be worth the smugglers trouble so they’d find another criminal activity. Win win . The problem is shutting down the problem will stop the rabid distracting rallying call of the right wing .. we can’t have that can we.. Footnote : As I mentioned in a previous post above regarding hiding fraud by voters is difficult. Lots of posts have commented on the case in Tower Hamlets 9 years ago. That case came about by people reporting it to the police. It’s not that easy is it. A third of the alleged fraud was by post so again no use for ID to be shown. A lot of the rest 52% was various bits of manipulation of the register by councillors allegedly. ID cards not a help again. . I think we’ve established it’s a non issue being made to look like a massive problem . I do wonder why.
Interesting how no one defended the gifts or politically controlling of who can protest.
Pat yes that’s correct your comments don’t count. .. only kidding keep up the trolling it’s comedy gold.
Anyway I think it’s run its course and we can leave it there. Thanks for debating.
Oh no….what will Pat do now? Spare a thought for the old fella! "Don’t worry he is busy limbering up for some mental gymnastics. Off to but popcorn | |||
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"Can I just point out that those peoples who will need helped are probably those without a smart phone or an email and just look at the state of someone who needs a carer at home right now and can’t get one or if they can it’s occasional . Does anyone think in reality that councils will set up teams to visit those who have not registered for ID That’s true fantasy thinking . It won’t happen. Why would they and who’s paying for all these home visits ? The problem of fraud is minor and the threat to democracy is not from the fraud but from the rules on voter ID . Stealing one vote is wrong but this method will remove thousands if not hundreds of thousands All for six cases of fraud in the last 274m votes . I accept people will disagree with me but I believe this government is unbelievable incompetent and corrupt. Hiding gifts, resisting the recommendations of the 2009 sleaze enquiry 13 years later. Removing the right to protest if they so chose . Introducing law which enables workers rights to be removed. How can anyone who is not a multi millionaire think this government is acting in their interests . I also for balance wrote to Starmer’s team on the lack of action in regard to the 2009 recommendations . Silence from them too. I suppose it was too much to ask for a response when I’m asking them to clean up parliament and un-line their own pockets. . Enjoy your days I’ve got to go . I think you should read the proposals. it is very clear in terms of support for those who need it. Yes I know and they will read like a great plan. Just like the care plan system for elderly in the U.K. . Having been directly involved with family members the reality bares no resemblance to the well presented plan. The resources are just not there for something as important as health care so not a chance for searching out non ID holding citizens. We can agree to disagree on the merits of the plan. Given the size of the frauds it’s a waste of time and badly needed money. Why would the government spend millions on the project when the fraud is worth a few thousand in court costs? Ridiculous when you give it a rational approach . From a financial approach millions will be spent if not hundreds of millions . If I told you six people on six individual occasions stole a newspaper from their local news agent over the last six years would anyone recommend spending hundreds of millions on the newspaper theft issue? It’s a crime isn’t it!! We need to clamp down. It’s a bit like spending hundred a of millions on the Rwanda scheme when the reality is only a few thousand asylum seekers arriving on boats are actually rejected.. It’s a bad allocation of limited funds and inefficient in the extreme. Providing safe routes would be far more efficient and a thousand times cheaper. It would also close the smugglers business model by default . The limited number of rejections wouldn’t be worth the smugglers trouble so they’d find another criminal activity. Win win . The problem is shutting down the problem will stop the rabid distracting rallying call of the right wing .. we can’t have that can we.. Footnote : As I mentioned in a previous post above regarding hiding fraud by voters is difficult. Lots of posts have commented on the case in Tower Hamlets 9 years ago. That case came about by people reporting it to the police. It’s not that easy is it. A third of the alleged fraud was by post so again no use for ID to be shown. A lot of the rest 52% was various bits of manipulation of the register by councillors allegedly. ID cards not a help again. . I think we’ve established it’s a non issue being made to look like a massive problem . I do wonder why.
Interesting how no one defended the gifts or politically controlling of who can protest.
Pat yes that’s correct your comments don’t count. .. only kidding keep up the trolling it’s comedy gold.
Anyway I think it’s run its course and we can leave it there. Thanks for debating.
Oh no….what will Pat do now? Spare a thought for the old fella!
Don’t worry he is busy limbering up for some mental gymnastics. Off to but popcorn " | |||
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