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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country " It's not pointless, it's designed to streamline the electorate to a more Conservative voting core. Although, you could argue that's pointless as the electorate are pretty compliant and vote Tory regardless. | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country It's not pointless, it's designed to streamline the electorate to a more Conservative voting core. Although, you could argue that's pointless as the electorate are pretty compliant and vote Tory regardless. " This post is truly laughable. | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country It's not pointless, it's designed to streamline the electorate to a more Conservative voting core. Although, you could argue that's pointless as the electorate are pretty compliant and vote Tory regardless. This post is truly laughable." Glad you think the slow erosion of democracy is funny.  | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting." Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. | |||
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"I dont think it will make a lot of difference most people do have some form of id . there is little evidence of fraud at the moment so it does seem a bit pointless. " It's not some form of ID though it has to be photographic identification which nearly 10% of the voting population do not have. | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly." I am in full favour of photo ID for voting. | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. I am in full favour of photo ID for voting." Why? | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. I am in full favour of photo ID for voting." You didn't answer the question. 'What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters?' | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country " On Tv yesterday it was described as a solution looking for a problem. Seems pretty acute. I wonder if it's the first step in making photo ID compulsory for everyone | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country On Tv yesterday it was described as a solution looking for a problem. Seems pretty acute. I wonder if it's the first step in making photo ID compulsory for everyone" All known and sensible evidence and research shows it will lead to millions unable to participate in the democratic processes they are forced to pay taxes for....so I suspect the intention is to target the poor first and foremost. | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country On Tv yesterday it was described as a solution looking for a problem. Seems pretty acute. I wonder if it's the first step in making photo ID compulsory for everyone" More to do with immigration policy then. Freedom tends to be given away rather than taken. | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country On Tv yesterday it was described as a solution looking for a problem. Seems pretty acute. I wonder if it's the first step in making photo ID compulsory for everyone All known and sensible evidence and research shows it will lead to millions unable to participate in the democratic processes they are forced to pay taxes for....so I suspect the intention is to target the poor first and foremost. " Absolutely but what's more frightening is the number of people that seem to think this is OK. | |||
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" Absolutely but what's more frightening is the number of people that seem to think this is OK. " That's the beauty of neo nazi liberal conservatism. "Aspiration" is just another term for "voting my rights away". | |||
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"So this expensive and pointless bit of legislation went through the House of Commons last night and the only point that most commentators can see for it is that it probably is designed to protect elderly Tory voters and disenfranchise young and poor voters. Democracy is dying in this country On Tv yesterday it was described as a solution looking for a problem. Seems pretty acute. I wonder if it's the first step in making photo ID compulsory for everyone" Same though sorry had not read all the thread..  | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting." Why? | |||
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"Over 60 Oyster Card is valid ID ,,,Under 60 Oyster Card is NOT valid ID" Says it all really! | |||
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"Two points to note 1. How will this be done fore me a postal voter? 2. Is this a step towards national I'd photo cards as it is getting hard to provide ID. When I last had to give ID.i found it hard as all on line. " I can't find anything that suggests postal voting will be affected and that has been the only recorded case of voter fraud in the last 7 years. Anyone that thinks this is anything other than disadvantaging those least likely to vote Tory need to have a rethink. Over sixties bus pass acceptable photo ID, Student ID card not. | |||
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"Two points to note 1. How will this be done fore me a postal voter? 2. Is this a step towards national I'd photo cards as it is getting hard to provide ID. When I last had to give ID.i found it hard as all on line. I can't find anything that suggests postal voting will be affected and that has been the only recorded case of voter fraud in the last 7 years. Anyone that thinks this is anything other than disadvantaging those least likely to vote Tory need to have a rethink. Over sixties bus pass acceptable photo ID, Student ID card not. " So postal voting will go up so long as we have a postal system. Or will this mean they will not send out voting papers cutting cost mabe you will go in to a cubical where a machine reads you biometric and you the just select a button. No paper reduced cost. Just trying to find an up side.. | |||
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"Two points to note 1. How will this be done fore me a postal voter? 2. Is this a step towards national I'd photo cards as it is getting hard to provide ID. When I last had to give ID.i found it hard as all on line. I can't find anything that suggests postal voting will be affected and that has been the only recorded case of voter fraud in the last 7 years. Anyone that thinks this is anything other than disadvantaging those least likely to vote Tory need to have a rethink. Over sixties bus pass acceptable photo ID, Student ID card not. So postal voting will go up so long as we have a postal system. Or will this mean they will not send out voting papers cutting cost mabe you will go in to a cubical where a machine reads you biometric and you the just select a button. No paper reduced cost. Just trying to find an up side.." There are plenty of people that would be excluded from voting if it had to be in person. The cost of setting up such a system would well outweigh the cost of sending out bits of paper. You don't need to take your poll card with you when you go to vote so they're not really necessary. | |||
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"Two points to note 1. How will this be done fore me a postal voter? 2. Is this a step towards national I'd photo cards as it is getting hard to provide ID. When I last had to give ID.i found it hard as all on line. I can't find anything that suggests postal voting will be affected and that has been the only recorded case of voter fraud in the last 7 years. Anyone that thinks this is anything other than disadvantaging those least likely to vote Tory need to have a rethink. Over sixties bus pass acceptable photo ID, Student ID card not. So postal voting will go up so long as we have a postal system. Or will this mean they will not send out voting papers cutting cost mabe you will go in to a cubical where a machine reads you biometric and you the just select a button. No paper reduced cost. Just trying to find an up side.. There are plenty of people that would be excluded from voting if it had to be in person. The cost of setting up such a system would well outweigh the cost of sending out bits of paper. You don't need to take your poll card with you when you go to vote so they're not really necessary. " OK did not know you don't have to take it as I postal vote. Gives me more time. | |||
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"Sounds like a load of bull shit to us. What young person doesn't want to get a drivers licence?" Plenty. Those that can't afford the £34 or isn't a priority for them, Those that have a condition that means they can't hold a driving licence. | |||
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"Sounds like a load of bull shit to us. What young person doesn't want to get a drivers licence? Plenty. Those that can't afford the £34 or isn't a priority for them, Those that have a condition that means they can't hold a driving licence. " A provisional ID is a bloody good way of having proof that you're old enough for drinking, being able to use a car is nothing to do with it. If young ned ID for drink they can have ID for votes. | |||
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"Sounds like a load of bull shit to us. What young person doesn't want to get a drivers licence? Plenty. Those that can't afford the £34 or isn't a priority for them, Those that have a condition that means they can't hold a driving licence. A provisional ID is a bloody good way of having proof that you're old enough for drinking, being able to use a car is nothing to do with it. If young ned ID for drink they can have ID for votes." There are currently over 4 million adults in the uk that do not have any form of photo ID and anybody that thinks it's easy for everybody and accessible is wrong. They can use their student Union (Totum) ID card to buy alcohol but that will not be an acceptable form of photo identification for voting according to the government however an OAP bus pass is. | |||
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"Sounds like a load of bull shit to us. What young person doesn't want to get a drivers licence? Plenty. Those that can't afford the £34 or isn't a priority for them, Those that have a condition that means they can't hold a driving licence. A provisional ID is a bloody good way of having proof that you're old enough for drinking, being able to use a car is nothing to do with it. If young ned ID for drink they can have ID for votes." Why is photo ID being introduced for in person voting if there is practically no voter fraud at a cost of £4m year? Simple question. You seem to be talking about all sorts of other things. | |||
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? " Perfectly, if you want older people to vote (predominantly Conservative) and not younger people (predominantly not Conservative). Just a guess... The person who thinks it's a good idea (singular) won't respond so I thought I'd help | |||
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? Perfectly, if you want older people to vote (predominantly Conservative) and not younger people (predominantly not Conservative). Just a guess... The person who thinks it's a good idea (singular) won't respond so I thought I'd help " | |||
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? Perfectly, if you want older people to vote (predominantly Conservative) and not younger people (predominantly not Conservative). Just a guess... The person who thinks it's a good idea (singular) won't respond so I thought I'd help
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? " Look into what you need to apply for the two different oysters and you’ll get your answer to that. | |||
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? Look into what you need to apply for the two different oysters and you’ll get your answer to that. " If you look into what you need to apply for a college or university place you'll get a different answer to the one you were aiming at. Why is photo ID being introduced for in person voting if there is practically no voter fraud at a cost of £4m year? | |||
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? Look into what you need to apply for the two different oysters and you’ll get your answer to that. If you look into what you need to apply for a college or university place you'll get a different answer to the one you were aiming at. Why is photo ID being introduced for in person voting if there is practically no voter fraud at a cost of £4m year?" Wasn’t aiming at anything, just providing a simple reason why one is valid and the other isn’t. In basic terms all students regardless of nationality can have a student oyster. | |||
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"For the people in favour of voter ID, in London over 60s oyster is acceptable but not student over 18s oyster. Exactly the same ID, just different aged holders. Reasonable? Look into what you need to apply for the two different oysters and you’ll get your answer to that. If you look into what you need to apply for a college or university place you'll get a different answer to the one you were aiming at. Why is photo ID being introduced for in person voting if there is practically no voter fraud at a cost of £4m year? Wasn’t aiming at anything, just providing a simple reason why one is valid and the other isn’t. In basic terms all students regardless of nationality can have a student oyster. " So can OAPs... | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly." It is impossible to verify the figures for in person fraud as ID is not checked. Those figures must be from people who have complained - if the fraud is using the ID of a person who isn't going to vote anyway it wouldn't be picked up. So, fraud could be insignificant or it could be significant in some constituencies. We don't know. The requirement to have ID is trivial so doesn't disadvantage anyone. It would be much better if everyone had to carry ID, as is the case in a lot of other countries. That ID should be necessary for day to day transactions. In the same vein, cash should also be retired so that the opportunities to work in the black economy are eliminated and tax take would increase. | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. It is impossible to verify the figures for in person fraud as ID is not checked. Those figures must be from people who have complained - if the fraud is using the ID of a person who isn't going to vote anyway it wouldn't be picked up. So, fraud could be insignificant or it could be significant in some constituencies. We don't know. The requirement to have ID is trivial so doesn't disadvantage anyone. It would be much better if everyone had to carry ID, as is the case in a lot of other countries. That ID should be necessary for day to day transactions. In the same vein, cash should also be retired so that the opportunities to work in the black economy are eliminated and tax take would increase." So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. It may well be "much better"to be able to track every citizens movements and activities. Perhaps you could use facial recognition software to track their physical movements too and have a system of social points that gives you access to services depending on how "good" you are? Does that sound familiar? | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. It is impossible to verify the figures for in person fraud as ID is not checked. Those figures must be from people who have complained - if the fraud is using the ID of a person who isn't going to vote anyway it wouldn't be picked up. So, fraud could be insignificant or it could be significant in some constituencies. We don't know. The requirement to have ID is trivial so doesn't disadvantage anyone. It would be much better if everyone had to carry ID, as is the case in a lot of other countries. That ID should be necessary for day to day transactions. In the same vein, cash should also be retired so that the opportunities to work in the black economy are eliminated and tax take would increase. So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. It may well be "much better"to be able to track every citizens movements and activities. Perhaps you could use facial recognition software to track their physical movements too and have a system of social points that gives you access to services depending on how "good" you are? Does that sound familiar?" It is a fine line, and following China's path is not good however this country is too lax in that laws regarding right to work etc. are too easy to circumvent if the employer wants to. Stay under the radar, pay in cash, no tax etc. As people don't need ID they can live like that for considerable periods of time. Not paying their way in society and vulnerable to exploitation. | |||
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"Ok then make an acceptable Govt Photo ID that is free to anyone who is a British Citizen and/or pays Tax/NI. It gets issued when you get your NI number. It can be used to determine right to vote and right to work. But as it is free nobody is disenfranchised. " Happy with that. I thought that was part of the legislation, if people don't have suitable ID they can apply for a free "Voter Authority Certificate" from January 2023, according to the parliamentary briefing. | |||
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"Ok then make an acceptable Govt Photo ID that is free to anyone who is a British Citizen and/or pays Tax/NI. It gets issued when you get your NI number. It can be used to determine right to vote and right to work. But as it is free nobody is disenfranchised. " Took the words out of my mouth. | |||
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"Ok then make an acceptable Govt Photo ID that is free to anyone who is a British Citizen and/or pays Tax/NI. It gets issued when you get your NI number. It can be used to determine right to vote and right to work. But as it is free nobody is disenfranchised. Happy with that. I thought that was part of the legislation, if people don't have suitable ID they can apply for a free "Voter Authority Certificate" from January 2023, according to the parliamentary briefing." Trouble is some bright spark will start moaning about cost to taxpayer of building and running the system etc to provide these ID docs and eventually they will bring in a charge! | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. It is impossible to verify the figures for in person fraud as ID is not checked. Those figures must be from people who have complained - if the fraud is using the ID of a person who isn't going to vote anyway it wouldn't be picked up. So, fraud could be insignificant or it could be significant in some constituencies. We don't know. The requirement to have ID is trivial so doesn't disadvantage anyone. It would be much better if everyone had to carry ID, as is the case in a lot of other countries. That ID should be necessary for day to day transactions. In the same vein, cash should also be retired so that the opportunities to work in the black economy are eliminated and tax take would increase. So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. It may well be "much better"to be able to track every citizens movements and activities. Perhaps you could use facial recognition software to track their physical movements too and have a system of social points that gives you access to services depending on how "good" you are? Does that sound familiar? It is a fine line, and following China's path is not good however this country is too lax in that laws regarding right to work etc. are too easy to circumvent if the employer wants to. Stay under the radar, pay in cash, no tax etc. As people don't need ID they can live like that for considerable periods of time. Not paying their way in society and vulnerable to exploitation." Why do you need legislation to introduce photo ID to vote if the problem does not exist? This is not for any other reason, apparently so none of your other points are valid. The only question is why is photo ID required for in-person voting when the problem is negligible? | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. It is impossible to verify the figures for in person fraud as ID is not checked. Those figures must be from people who have complained - if the fraud is using the ID of a person who isn't going to vote anyway it wouldn't be picked up. So, fraud could be insignificant or it could be significant in some constituencies. We don't know. The requirement to have ID is trivial so doesn't disadvantage anyone. It would be much better if everyone had to carry ID, as is the case in a lot of other countries. That ID should be necessary for day to day transactions. In the same vein, cash should also be retired so that the opportunities to work in the black economy are eliminated and tax take would increase. So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. It may well be "much better"to be able to track every citizens movements and activities. Perhaps you could use facial recognition software to track their physical movements too and have a system of social points that gives you access to services depending on how "good" you are? Does that sound familiar? It is a fine line, and following China's path is not good however this country is too lax in that laws regarding right to work etc. are too easy to circumvent if the employer wants to. Stay under the radar, pay in cash, no tax etc. As people don't need ID they can live like that for considerable periods of time. Not paying their way in society and vulnerable to exploitation. Why do you need legislation to introduce photo ID to vote if the problem does not exist? This is not for any other reason, apparently so none of your other points are valid. The only question is why is photo ID required for in-person voting when the problem is negligible?" The Electoral Commission recommended in 2016 that ID was presented for voting. Why do you think their recommendation is not valid? | |||
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"So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process." Surely the 'projections of 4% disenfranchisement' are just what someone imagines might happen, and your argument is that we don't need to address problems that are imaginary. One definite problem that will be solved is that it will eliminate the Daily Mail's ability to keep printing "immigrants are cheating the voting system" stories. | |||
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"So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. Surely the 'projections of 4% disenfranchisement' are just what someone imagines might happen, and your argument is that we don't need to address problems that are imaginary. One definite problem that will be solved is that it will eliminate the Daily Mail's ability to keep printing "immigrants are cheating the voting system" stories." Projections based on people who are predicted to struggle to meet the new ID criteria to vote. Don't worry about the Daily Mail, they can still blame and distract everyone from the news with "Immigrants" and "trans" based outrage. | |||
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"For the record, I fully support the requirement to have photographic ID when voting. Unnecessary. Zero in-person voter fraud. There were 164 cases in 2019 for the general election (including postal) and 362 in local elections. "Around 4% do not have the required ID with a recognisable photo.1 This is higher among disadvantaged groups." That's 2.7m people. All from the Electoral Commission. What problem does this "fix" other than to disenfranchise non-affluent voters? I'll be impressed if you answer the question directly. It is impossible to verify the figures for in person fraud as ID is not checked. Those figures must be from people who have complained - if the fraud is using the ID of a person who isn't going to vote anyway it wouldn't be picked up. So, fraud could be insignificant or it could be significant in some constituencies. We don't know. The requirement to have ID is trivial so doesn't disadvantage anyone. It would be much better if everyone had to carry ID, as is the case in a lot of other countries. That ID should be necessary for day to day transactions. In the same vein, cash should also be retired so that the opportunities to work in the black economy are eliminated and tax take would increase. So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. It may well be "much better"to be able to track every citizens movements and activities. Perhaps you could use facial recognition software to track their physical movements too and have a system of social points that gives you access to services depending on how "good" you are? Does that sound familiar? It is a fine line, and following China's path is not good however this country is too lax in that laws regarding right to work etc. are too easy to circumvent if the employer wants to. Stay under the radar, pay in cash, no tax etc. As people don't need ID they can live like that for considerable periods of time. Not paying their way in society and vulnerable to exploitation. Why do you need legislation to introduce photo ID to vote if the problem does not exist? This is not for any other reason, apparently so none of your other points are valid. The only question is why is photo ID required for in-person voting when the problem is negligible? The Electoral Commission recommended in 2016 that ID was presented for voting. Why do you think their recommendation is not valid?" Ah, good. You've actually started to look into the matter that you had such a strong opinion on. The Electoral commission report was in 2014, but it's only suddenly become important in 2022 just before an election where the Conservative Party will need all the help that it can get. The report actually indicates that there is very little fraud and it would be as much to counter the perception of fraud drummed up by...some of the more right wing elements of our press and political establishment as anything else. "Minister brushed off watchdog warning that voter ID plans are not ‘workable’ ‘Insufficient time’ to roll out reforms in time for elections in May, says Electoral Commission chief" https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/uk-news/voter-id-cards-elections-democracy-b2237892.html | |||
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"So, it's a solution for a problem that may or may not be happening but is vital to solve? That's what you're saying. It is important to fix an imaginary problem. That is bonkers. It clearly is not a "trivial" requirement if the projections are that 4% of the population could be disenfranchised from the democratic process. Surely the 'projections of 4% disenfranchisement' are just what someone imagines might happen, and your argument is that we don't need to address problems that are imaginary. One definite problem that will be solved is that it will eliminate the Daily Mail's ability to keep printing "immigrants are cheating the voting system" stories." No, it is not what "someone imagines". Is that how you believe this sort of work is carried out by professional organisations (current Government excepted)? Statistics is a real thing. The Daily Mail will continue to print whatever crap it wants to and people will believe it if they want to. They choose to be fearful and angry so they will continue to do so. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. "it's a constant battle over here too. You can collect government benefits by cashing said benefits at area banks that require be ID . Yet no ID to vote is not required.wtf. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. "has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. it's a constant battle over here too. You can collect government benefits by cashing said benefits at area banks that require be ID . Yet no ID to vote is not required.wtf."Because voter fraud in the UK and USA is vanishingly rare. It has zero impact on elections. It's only talked up to whip up certain people & as an excuse to disenfranchise certain people. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. "That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier. It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical... | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical..."the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory. Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. it's a constant battle over here too. You can collect government benefits by cashing said benefits at area banks that require be ID . Yet no ID to vote is not required.wtf.
Because voter fraud in the UK and USA is vanishingly rare. It has zero impact on elections. It's only talked up to whip up certain people & as an excuse to disenfranchise certain people."yet the government is requiring real ID to travel. How is that any different from voting? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. it's a constant battle over here too. You can collect government benefits by cashing said benefits at area banks that require be ID . Yet no ID to vote is not required.wtf.
Because voter fraud in the UK and USA is vanishingly rare. It has zero impact on elections. It's only talked up to whip up certain people & as an excuse to disenfranchise certain people. yet the government is requiring real ID to travel. How is that any different from voting?"Voter Id in the UK/USA is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. You seem to be 1 of those people they're trying to whip up. Congrats. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office. "The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much? "Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles. Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?"My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?
My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it?"Because of it prevents anyone from voting, it's failed as it will actually cause a problem. Again, why is it needed? Why find a solution for a non-problem? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?
My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it?
Because of it prevents anyone from voting, it's failed as it will actually cause a problem.
Again, why is it needed? Why find a solution for a non-problem?"People need to register to vote, would that prevent people from voting? Providing solutions that supports those that can't afford or do not have photo ID removes the barriers you are worried about It is a simple change that will become the norm in a blink of an eye. I do not know why it is a problem, I can't see the problem. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
"the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details" It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous. Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work. How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?
My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it?
Because of it prevents anyone from voting, it's failed as it will actually cause a problem.
Again, why is it needed? Why find a solution for a non-problem?
People need to register to vote, would that prevent people from voting? Providing solutions that supports those that can't afford or do not have photo ID removes the barriers you are worried about
It is a simple change that will become the norm in a blink of an eye.
I do not know why it is a problem, I can't see the problem."Why Is It Needed? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?
My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it?
Because of it prevents anyone from voting, it's failed as it will actually cause a problem.
Again, why is it needed? Why find a solution for a non-problem?
People need to register to vote, would that prevent people from voting? Providing solutions that supports those that can't afford or do not have photo ID removes the barriers you are worried about
It is a simple change that will become the norm in a blink of an eye.
I do not know why it is a problem, I can't see the problem.
Why
Is
It
Needed?"It is changing, needed or not. You not accepting a change, or offering no real argument other than a question of why is it needed, is not a reason for the change not to happen. I would be onboard with you if this was alienating anyone who wanted to legitimately vote, it isn't preventing that, so happy for the change. Also, it seems logical that fraud prevention is in place for something that decides the direction of the country. If fraud is happening or not, the prevention of potential fraud is a good thing, surely? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?"The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen. Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud. Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem."that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it. Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible. Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some. Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible. Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible. Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access. A goverment scheme with 99pc success... cynical. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. "Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?"No. You don't have to show ID. If you're I'll you get treated. Horrible thought. Why do you dislike the NHS so much? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?
No. You don't have to show ID.
If you're I'll you get treated. Horrible thought.
Why do you dislike the NHS so much?"so you saying I can fly there access your healthcare no matter the costs to your average citizens without ID proving I am a UK citizen? Yet voter ID is a problem? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?"honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?
My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it?
Because of it prevents anyone from voting, it's failed as it will actually cause a problem.
Again, why is it needed? Why find a solution for a non-problem?
People need to register to vote, would that prevent people from voting? Providing solutions that supports those that can't afford or do not have photo ID removes the barriers you are worried about
It is a simple change that will become the norm in a blink of an eye.
I do not know why it is a problem, I can't see the problem.
Why
Is
It
Needed?
It is changing, needed or not. You not accepting a change, or offering no real argument other than a question of why is it needed, is not a reason for the change not to happen.
I would be onboard with you if this was alienating anyone who wanted to legitimately vote, it isn't preventing that, so happy for the change.
Also, it seems logical that fraud prevention is in place for something that decides the direction of the country. If fraud is happening or not, the prevention of potential fraud is a good thing, surely? "To take a very extreme example, they brought in racial purity laws in Germany in the 1930's It was changing. Why should anyone fight it? They didn't, as it turned out. I say extreme. You are perfectly aware of how China functions. Your behaviour tracked and your access to public services restricted accordingly. ID cards have been attempted to be introduced for years. It's failed. Suddenly an opportunity has arisen which if there is a negative effect on voting it affects the demographic that won't vote for them anyway... | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. "same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people.
That process is not in place see the link I posted earlier.
It's also unnecessary and has been for 8 years but is suddenly critical...
the process will be in place t the time of photo ID's being compulsory.
Many countries including Northern Ireland have photo ID for voting. If anyone who has no photo ID will be provided the ID free of charge and provided many ways to obtain that ID, what worries you so much?
Northern Ireland has ID as a consequence of the troubles.
Why is it needed here if there is no actual problem to solve?
My question still stands, why if everyone is still able to vote are you so worried about it?
Because of it prevents anyone from voting, it's failed as it will actually cause a problem.
Again, why is it needed? Why find a solution for a non-problem?
People need to register to vote, would that prevent people from voting? Providing solutions that supports those that can't afford or do not have photo ID removes the barriers you are worried about
It is a simple change that will become the norm in a blink of an eye.
I do not know why it is a problem, I can't see the problem.
Why
Is
It
Needed?
It is changing, needed or not. You not accepting a change, or offering no real argument other than a question of why is it needed, is not a reason for the change not to happen.
I would be onboard with you if this was alienating anyone who wanted to legitimately vote, it isn't preventing that, so happy for the change.
Also, it seems logical that fraud prevention is in place for something that decides the direction of the country. If fraud is happening or not, the prevention of potential fraud is a good thing, surely?
To take a very extreme example, they brought in racial purity laws in Germany in the 1930's
It was changing. Why should anyone fight it?
They didn't, as it turned out.
I say extreme. You are perfectly aware of how China functions. Your behaviour tracked and your access to public services restricted accordingly.
ID cards have been attempted to be introduced for years. It's failed.
Suddenly an opportunity has arisen which if there is a negative effect on voting it affects the demographic that won't vote for them anyway..."I understand this view, and if it wasn’t stated clearly in the supporting documentation that this initiative was not a back door to national ID cards, I would be more sceptical. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. "you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be) | |||
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| |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. "The level of voter fraud is illusory. However, once you require it, you have a method of limiting the routes to obtaining it. So yes, You're quite right, the routes to selecting those who make laws should be limited to the absolute minimum. Especially when there is no actual problem. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
"but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote. | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody has yet presented a compelling reason why we need id given there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country..." There was the consideration that it would be a way of limiting potential fraud at some unspecified point in the future. How in-person voter fraud could be enacted at a scale that would make a meaningful difference to the result of an election is an entirety different question, of course... | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody has yet presented a compelling reason why we need id given there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country... There was the consideration that it would be a way of limiting potential fraud at some unspecified point in the future. How in-person voter fraud could be enacted at a scale that would make a meaningful difference to the result of an election is an entirety different question, of course..." As I support that everyone entitled to vote should be given an opportunity to vote, I also support the view that if someone’s vote could be taken away from them fraudulently, I want that closed down too. Agree or disagree? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote. "How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election? It isn't actually happening at all though, is it? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote.
How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election?
It isn't actually happening at all though, is it?"How do you know itis not happening without proper identities? | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody has yet presented a compelling reason why we need id given there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country... There was the consideration that it would be a way of limiting potential fraud at some unspecified point in the future. How in-person voter fraud could be enacted at a scale that would make a meaningful difference to the result of an election is an entirety different question, of course... As I support that everyone entitled to vote should be given an opportunity to vote, I also support the view that if someone’s vote could be taken away from them fraudulently, I want that closed down too. Agree or disagree? " and that is the cost benefit question. How many votes are st0len v how many votes will be disenfranchised. We have no evidence the former is high. And not enough detail to be sure the latter will be low. Fill in both sides and I would be supportive if it balances. | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody has yet presented a compelling reason why we need id given there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country... There was the consideration that it would be a way of limiting potential fraud at some unspecified point in the future. How in-person voter fraud could be enacted at a scale that would make a meaningful difference to the result of an election is an entirety different question, of course... As I support that everyone entitled to vote should be given an opportunity to vote, I also support the view that if someone’s vote could be taken away from them fraudulently, I want that closed down too. Agree or disagree? and that is the cost benefit question. How many votes are st0len v how many votes will be disenfranchised. We have no evidence the former is high. And not enough detail to be sure the latter will be low. Fill in both sides and I would be supportive if it balances. " A vote isn’t a commodity that has a value in terms of 10000 votes equal a problem, it is an individual right and should be protected from fraud or the possibility of fraud at all costs. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote. "the question is how often does this happen versus how many people would find they couldn't vote. At the moment everyone are just waving hands about talking at each other. | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody has yet presented a compelling reason why we need id given there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country... There was the consideration that it would be a way of limiting potential fraud at some unspecified point in the future. How in-person voter fraud could be enacted at a scale that would make a meaningful difference to the result of an election is an entirety different question, of course... As I support that everyone entitled to vote should be given an opportunity to vote, I also support the view that if someone’s vote could be taken away from them fraudulently, I want that closed down too. Agree or disagree? and that is the cost benefit question. How many votes are st0len v how many votes will be disenfranchised. We have no evidence the former is high. And not enough detail to be sure the latter will be low. Fill in both sides and I would be supportive if it balances. A vote isn’t a commodity that has a value in terms of 10000 votes equal a problem, it is an individual right and should be protected from fraud or the possibility of fraud at all costs. " At all costs? How about a billion pounds a vote then? | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody has yet presented a compelling reason why we need id given there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country... There was the consideration that it would be a way of limiting potential fraud at some unspecified point in the future. How in-person voter fraud could be enacted at a scale that would make a meaningful difference to the result of an election is an entirety different question, of course... As I support that everyone entitled to vote should be given an opportunity to vote, I also support the view that if someone’s vote could be taken away from them fraudulently, I want that closed down too. Agree or disagree? and that is the cost benefit question. How many votes are st0len v how many votes will be disenfranchised. We have no evidence the former is high. And not enough detail to be sure the latter will be low. Fill in both sides and I would be supportive if it balances. A vote isn’t a commodity that has a value in terms of 10000 votes equal a problem, it is an individual right and should be protected from fraud or the possibility of fraud at all costs. " but if the free ID is actually difficult to access then people lose their ability to vote. I'm not talking absolute numbers. It's an equation where I'd lkley become supportive if you showed me 2 cases of fraud and assured only 1 case of disenfranchisement. Have a look at the NI process of getting free photo ID and see how accessible it looks. | |||
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"Every day everyone on here transmits a verification identity. Either by avatar ip address and others. Yet identification for voting is horrendous. "I'm not sure fab profile counts as photo ID. For some its the enforced ID as a.pojnt of principal. For others, like me, its the fear that not everyone will be able to access the free ID. And noone can provide detail on this as HMG hasn't. And our government ain't great at details. | |||
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"Every day everyone on here transmits a verification identity. Either by avatar ip address and others. Yet identification for voting is horrendous. "You never listen to reality, do you? There's no meaningful voter fraud in this country. It is not a problem that needs solving. Apparently, Hancock was pushed on this in 2019. He admitted there were 6 cases of voter fraud at the previous election. 6... | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote.
How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election?
It isn't actually happening at all though, is it? How do you know itis not happening without proper identities? "Are any forms of ID in US forged? Do 18 year olds ever buy alcohol in the US? | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote.
How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election?
It isn't actually happening at all though, is it? How do you know itis not happening without proper identities?
Are any forms of ID in US forged?
Do 18 year olds ever buy alcohol in the US?"harder now with bar codes on the back of our IDs that stores scan to identify the individual. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote.
How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election?
It isn't actually happening at all though, is it? How do you know itis not happening without proper identities?
Are any forms of ID in US forged?
Do 18 year olds ever buy alcohol in the US? harder now with bar codes on the back of our IDs that stores scan to identify the individual."But yet voter ID a issue. | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote.
How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election?
It isn't actually happening at all though, is it? How do you know itis not happening without proper identities?
Are any forms of ID in US forged?
Do 18 year olds ever buy alcohol in the US? harder now with bar codes on the back of our IDs that stores scan to identify the individual. But yet voter ID a issue."PDF417 technology.look it up | |||
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"What has been missed in this discussion is the fact that anyone who does not possess the required ID documents, will be issued a voters card free of charge, removing the need for photographic ID for the now not so disenfranchised people. has there been any detail how you get said free ID? Someone pointed me to the Irish approach. It's not easy... and is only "free" if you get yourself to the electoral office.
The gov link below contains a lot of the info. Everyone will be catered for and it is not a quick get it in because we need to remove certain people from voting as many are saying... It was part of the 2019 manifesto to introduce photo ID's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card/protecting-the-integrity-of-our-elections-voter-identification-at-polling-stations-and-the-new-voter-card
the secondary legislation is key. It smacks of "someone else can fill in the details"
It has to balance ease versus fraud. The irish approach is fairly onerous.
Given no one has established an issue, the "solution" has to have next to no cost for any cost benefit to work.
How many fraudulent votes are cast ATM?
The issue might not be fraud is rampant, it could be fraud is possible and we can prevent or make it harder for that to happen.
Like the 3 digit code on your bank card, face ID, finger print readers all methods that help to prevent fraud.
Prevention is better than cure, and as long as there are alternatives in play that allow those who would be disadvantaged by not having photo ID, which there are, I can't see a problem.that last point is key. I've yet to see these alternatives let alone show all are not disadvantaged. If it's truly free, and truly accessible, then I'm not against it.
Having to travel. Not free. Not accessible.
Requiring Internet access. Not easily accessible for some.
Requiring your MP or similar to sign photos. Not accessible.
Having to go to a kiosk to get a photo. Not really free. Not really accessible.
Its something like 4m without photo ID. 10c of that is 40k. That's a fair number of ppl still even if the scheme allows 99pc of people easy enough, and free enough access.
A government scheme with 99pc success... cynical. Do you not have to show ID to access government benefits? If I flew there to gain access to your healthcare do I not have to show ID ? I can speak a pretty good British accent. Would I be commiting fraud if I did and flew home ?honestly I don't know. Possibly not photo ID. Bit I'm sure it's harder than saying I'm Joe Bloggs, gimme benefits. same thing as saying I am Karen Smith let me vote.ID shouldn't be a issue because those votes are what proceeds government decisions. It's just strange how people so against ID. Yet ID required for everything else in life. From birth certificate until death certificate everything in between people complain. you need to go to the right polling station if trying to steal a real Karen Smith vote. If you didn't, no dice. And know her address. And hope she isn't going to vote (as while you won't be caught the crime will be)
but yet you gave a perfect way to access that vote if you were a aquatinted and you knew she wasn't going to vote.
How many times would this need to be done and on what scale to change the results of an election?
It isn't actually happening at all though, is it? How do you know itis not happening without proper identities?
Are any forms of ID in US forged?
Do 18 year olds ever buy alcohol in the US? harder now with bar codes on the back of our IDs that stores scan to identify the individual. But yet voter ID a issue. PDF417 technology.look it up "Not bothered. Voter fraud is not a problem. Photo ID for in person voting is subsequently unnecessary. Of course it may be the duty of Government in the US to spend money on unnecessary things. I wouldn't know. The general view here doesn't align with that. | |||
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"With only a 25.8% turn-out at The Stretford and Urmston bye-election , surely this should point to any democracy wanting more people to vote rather than less" Really poor turn out though the BBC are saying the weather has been a factor. Still an interesting result with an 11% swing away from the Tories | |||
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"In fairness you cant really champion anything as a democracy so long as more than jalf of people dont bother even voteing and the choices are so poor. We need proportional representation imstead of this first past the post rubbish." It suits those at the top to have a disengaged electorate. They're much easier to manipulate and control. | |||
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