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"Shadow health Secretary Wes Streeting has ben attacking the BMA and vowing NHS reforms. He's accused them for having a something for nothing culture. He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Read reports, he has apparently been getting donations of support from ex Tory donors who have investments in private health care. I have been thinking Keith Starmers Labour party is the other side of the same coin we have in charge at the moment. Controlled by the money men for their interests." pmsl have you only just realised this, this is one of the main reasons i dont vote eet the new boss same as the old boss | |||
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"Shadow health Secretary Wes Streeting has ben attacking the BMA and vowing NHS reforms. He's accused them for having a something for nothing culture. He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Read reports, he has apparently been getting donations of support from ex Tory donors who have investments in private health care. I have been thinking Keith Starmers Labour party is the other side of the same coin we have in charge at the moment. Controlled by the money men for their interests." The conspiracy theorists thread is that way.  | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say." Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them" Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself " Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself." Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. | |||
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"Shadow health Secretary Wes Streeting has ben attacking the BMA and vowing NHS reforms. He's accused them for having a something for nothing culture. He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Read reports, he has apparently been getting donations of support from ex Tory donors who have investments in private health care. I have been thinking Keith Starmers Labour party is the other side of the same coin we have in charge at the moment. Controlled by the money men for their interests. The conspiracy theorists thread is that way. "Yes, I guess his ex-tory donors, with their Interests, are giving him money now is all because he's such a nice guy. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. " The tories have been in government for the last 12 years  | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. " lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. " Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over that | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over that" this is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ?" She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tube | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tube" oh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. " Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM" we are agreed. Sorry, I thought you were the OP in this side thread. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM" 100%. He could not recover from that. Salt of the earth, Gillian Duffy had voted Labour all her life and worked 30 years for Rochdale Council, working with disabled children. She simply aired the concerns of millions, asking about “all these Eastern Europeans coming in”. Further discussions followed and, two-facedly, Brown left her saying she had a 'good family' and it had been 'very nice' to meet her. He then got into his luxury car and demanded to know who put him with 'that woman'. Shocked aides asked what the issue was and he referred to a Labour stalwart pensioner as a 'bigoted woman'. Brown didn't realise he was being recorded at the time, and only apologised when Jeremy Vine played the clip to him on his show, clutching his head in his hands. He moaned that 'they have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen'. On hearing his nonsensical reply, Gillian commented 'He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions that most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments' Gillian hit the nail on head. Even without covid and Ukraine, we were always going to pay for the Labour mess til 2030 odd. Astonishingly, we look like we're going to vote New Improved Labour in by Jan 2025 for much much more of the same and then be sneeringly dismissed as bigots, racists and all the rest of it if we ever dare question anyone on the Left about it. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM 100%. He could not recover from that. Salt of the earth, Gillian Duffy had voted Labour all her life and worked 30 years for Rochdale Council, working with disabled children. She simply aired the concerns of millions, asking about “all these Eastern Europeans coming in”. Further discussions followed and, two-facedly, Brown left her saying she had a 'good family' and it had been 'very nice' to meet her. He then got into his luxury car and demanded to know who put him with 'that woman'. Shocked aides asked what the issue was and he referred to a Labour stalwart pensioner as a 'bigoted woman'. Brown didn't realise he was being recorded at the time, and only apologised when Jeremy Vine played the clip to him on his show, clutching his head in his hands. He moaned that 'they have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen'. On hearing his nonsensical reply, Gillian commented 'He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions that most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments' Gillian hit the nail on head. Even without covid and Ukraine, we were always going to pay for the Labour mess til 2030 odd. Astonishingly, we look like we're going to vote New Improved Labour in by Jan 2025 for much much more of the same and then be sneeringly dismissed as bigots, racists and all the rest of it if we ever dare question anyone on the Left about it. " Welcome back Hay
You like where the current Government has taken us over the last 12 years.
I understand that if your perspective is of someone who looks after himself and is fairly affluent.
Ultimately increasing wealth gaps cause societal stress, which is what we are seeing now. That even affects you.
However, based on 12 years of decline (you can highlight some bright spots if you can) you will continue to vote for the same party even though they are taking opposition ideas. You also seem to making up a few elements of Labour immigration policy.
I'm not a Labour supporter, for the record. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PMwe are agreed. Sorry, I thought you were the OP in this side thread. " Indeed we are. No I was only reminded of the incident by one of the other posts here and decided to remind myself of what was said | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM 100%. He could not recover from that. Salt of the earth, Gillian Duffy had voted Labour all her life and worked 30 years for Rochdale Council, working with disabled children. She simply aired the concerns of millions, asking about “all these Eastern Europeans coming in”. Further discussions followed and, two-facedly, Brown left her saying she had a 'good family' and it had been 'very nice' to meet her. He then got into his luxury car and demanded to know who put him with 'that woman'. Shocked aides asked what the issue was and he referred to a Labour stalwart pensioner as a 'bigoted woman'. Brown didn't realise he was being recorded at the time, and only apologised when Jeremy Vine played the clip to him on his show, clutching his head in his hands. He moaned that 'they have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen'. On hearing his nonsensical reply, Gillian commented 'He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions that most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments' Gillian hit the nail on head. Even without covid and Ukraine, we were always going to pay for the Labour mess til 2030 odd. Astonishingly, we look like we're going to vote New Improved Labour in by Jan 2025 for much much more of the same and then be sneeringly dismissed as bigots, racists and all the rest of it if we ever dare question anyone on the Left about it. Welcome back Hay
You like where the current Government has taken us over the last 12 years.
I understand that if your perspective is of someone who looks after himself and is fairly affluent.
Ultimately increasing wealth gaps cause societal stress, which is what we are seeing now. That even affects you.
However, based on 12 years of decline (you can highlight some bright spots if you can) you will continue to vote for the same party even though they are taking opposition ideas. You also seem to making up a few elements of Labour immigration policy.
I'm not a Labour supporter, for the record."You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up. It's seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM 100%. He could not recover from that. Salt of the earth, Gillian Duffy had voted Labour all her life and worked 30 years for Rochdale Council, working with disabled children. She simply aired the concerns of millions, asking about “all these Eastern Europeans coming in”. Further discussions followed and, two-facedly, Brown left her saying she had a 'good family' and it had been 'very nice' to meet her. He then got into his luxury car and demanded to know who put him with 'that woman'. Shocked aides asked what the issue was and he referred to a Labour stalwart pensioner as a 'bigoted woman'. Brown didn't realise he was being recorded at the time, and only apologised when Jeremy Vine played the clip to him on his show, clutching his head in his hands. He moaned that 'they have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen'. On hearing his nonsensical reply, Gillian commented 'He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions that most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments' Gillian hit the nail on head. Even without covid and Ukraine, we were always going to pay for the Labour mess til 2030 odd. Astonishingly, we look like we're going to vote New Improved Labour in by Jan 2025 for much much more of the same and then be sneeringly dismissed as bigots, racists and all the rest of it if we ever dare question anyone on the Left about it. Welcome back Hay
You like where the current Government has taken us over the last 12 years.
I understand that if your perspective is of someone who looks after himself and is fairly affluent.
Ultimately increasing wealth gaps cause societal stress, which is what we are seeing now. That even affects you.
However, based on 12 years of decline (you can highlight some bright spots if you can) you will continue to vote for the same party even though they are taking opposition ideas. You also seem to making up a few elements of Labour immigration policy.
I'm not a Labour supporter, for the record.
You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up.
It's seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. "If you say so pat. 12 years in power and blaming everyone else except themselves. What a bunch of stupid shits. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM 100%. He could not recover from that. Salt of the earth, Gillian Duffy had voted Labour all her life and worked 30 years for Rochdale Council, working with disabled children. She simply aired the concerns of millions, asking about “all these Eastern Europeans coming in”. Further discussions followed and, two-facedly, Brown left her saying she had a 'good family' and it had been 'very nice' to meet her. He then got into his luxury car and demanded to know who put him with 'that woman'. Shocked aides asked what the issue was and he referred to a Labour stalwart pensioner as a 'bigoted woman'. Brown didn't realise he was being recorded at the time, and only apologised when Jeremy Vine played the clip to him on his show, clutching his head in his hands. He moaned that 'they have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen'. On hearing his nonsensical reply, Gillian commented 'He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions that most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments' Gillian hit the nail on head. Even without covid and Ukraine, we were always going to pay for the Labour mess til 2030 odd. Astonishingly, we look like we're going to vote New Improved Labour in by Jan 2025 for much much more of the same and then be sneeringly dismissed as bigots, racists and all the rest of it if we ever dare question anyone on the Left about it. Welcome back Hay
You like where the current Government has taken us over the last 12 years.
I understand that if your perspective is of someone who looks after himself and is fairly affluent.
Ultimately increasing wealth gaps cause societal stress, which is what we are seeing now. That even affects you.
However, based on 12 years of decline (you can highlight some bright spots if you can) you will continue to vote for the same party even though they are taking opposition ideas. You also seem to making up a few elements of Labour immigration policy.
I'm not a Labour supporter, for the record.
You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up.
It's seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. "Oh, look, nothing but a personal attack. No reference to the OP or any other points made. As usual, when you can't answer a question on the topic you go after the person. However, it may just be that you didn't understand the question so I will reframe it for you. How have the lives of the people in the UK improved under twelve years of Conservative Government? It should be a long list after all of this time, bit you tend to generate lists of excuses for failure rather than successes. You also do not seem to know what the Labour ideas on reducing irregular economic migration is, but you oppose it anyway. Whatever it might be. If you listen to this episode of Newsnight from 25mins you can hear what it is and explain what you don't like about it with some actual information. Incidentally full of other great Government success stories. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001g5b2/newsnight-nurses-prepare-to-strike-what-next I won't hold my breath though, because you would have to address the topic and you tend to try to bully people to distract from that fact. | |||
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"Says he who won't address the points I have made about mixing me up with a completely different poster! So I'll make the points again: You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up. It seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. Perhaps you can also explain how asking you to clarify the above is 'a personal attack'? If someone addresses you incorrectly in life, do you just let it pass for fear of being accused of launching 'personal attacks'?! I also genuinely believe some on the Left are bewildered anyone can vote Tory. Over 14 million did in Dec 2019! You must understand difference of political opinion and the right to hold it? Or should we all think the same in some sort of march to a Marxist state? After you've clarified the above, rather than try to bully people by banding about words like 'personal attacks' designed to stifle others, I'll deal with your 'what have 12 years of Tory rule brought us' enquiry "I have little interest in addressing your questions on your name as that isn't the topic of the thread. I wasn't making any "points" about who you are. I don't need them to be addressed. They are merely observations about your behaviour. The whole of this block of text is, it appears, whining, so cannot really be bothered. I'm not "left wing" or "Marxist". By most measures I should be a "natural" Conservative voter, but on the basis of competence and delivery (how I prefer to make my decisions) there is zero chance of that happening. I am certainly far further left than you are. Rather like Ken Clarke, a former Tory Chancellor but that says far more about your position than mine. I shall look forward to your assessment on how the UK has improved under the last twelve years. | |||
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"Shadow health Secretary Wes Streeting has ben attacking the BMA and vowing NHS reforms. He's accused them for having a something for nothing culture. He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Read reports, he has apparently been getting donations of support from ex Tory donors who have investments in private health care. I have been thinking Keith Starmers Labour party is the other side of the same coin we have in charge at the moment. Controlled by the money men for their interests." Use of existing private health provision is not inherently a problem, particularly if it helps bring down the significant backlogs that are in place. That is , as long as it does not divert staff from the NHS. The attack on the BMA is somewhat baffling. GPs are every bit as stretched and demotivated as the rest of the NHS. I haven't heard anything about donations from private healthcare, but not necessarily indicative of high corruption. Source? Perhaps not the right man for the job? Any Labour Government will have to be pragmatic. The wild pendulum swings from left to right, state to private are not helpful for anyone. Government has to make change but at a pace that a country and the large organisations that populate it can move at. As voters we tend to be more impatient for change than the reality. | |||
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"Says he who won't address the points I have made about mixing me up with a completely different poster! So I'll make the points again: You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up. It seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. Perhaps you can also explain how asking you to clarify the above is 'a personal attack'? If someone addresses you incorrectly in life, do you just let it pass for fear of being accused of launching 'personal attacks'?! I also genuinely believe some on the Left are bewildered anyone can vote Tory. Over 14 million did in Dec 2019! You must understand difference of political opinion and the right to hold it? Or should we all think the same in some sort of march to a Marxist state? After you've clarified the above, rather than try to bully people by banding about words like 'personal attacks' designed to stifle others, I'll deal with your 'what have 12 years of Tory rule brought us' enquiry
I have little interest in addressing your questions on your name as that isn't the topic of the thread.
I wasn't making any "points" about who you are. I don't need them to be addressed. They are merely observations about your behaviour.
The whole of this block of text is, it appears, whining, so cannot really be bothered.
I'm not "left wing" or "Marxist". By most measures I should be a "natural" Conservative voter, but on the basis of competence and delivery (how I prefer to make my decisions) there is zero chance of that happening. I am certainly far further left than you are. Rather like Ken Clarke, a former Tory Chancellor but that says far more about your position than mine.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how the UK has improved under the last twelve years."I shall look forward to your assessment on how I am 'Pat' but until then I won't deal with correspondence incorrectly addressed. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. lots to unpack You've jumped betwen immigration and asylum seekers. Not sure why gjven the relative numbers. The majority of immigration is probably those who won't add as much strain to the NHS. But pay taxes to help. That's the thing with immigration- it's a easy fix for all our poor planning issues. I suspect the strain v tax would be higher if we binned immigration. Especially as the first xbn of taxes goes to state pension. Interestingly the bigoted women barely mentioned immigration in her conversation with GB. That's why I can't even fathom why he said that. He was rightfully condemned imo. Just watched the sky clip on you tube. She raised several concerns with immigration just one of them. GB had a hard time answering her and the recording catches him complaining about being put in that position afterwards and jumps onto the bigoted line. What I have only just seen is the sky reporters playing her the recording from their van and her reaction of horror at being called bigoted. I don't think GB really got over thatthis is from the independent transcript You can’t say anything about the "immigrants because you’re saying that you’re... but all these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" There was something next about students that felt confused as whether she was angry at foreign student or tuition fees. What else did she mention ? She also mentioned pensions and taxing pensions. I think she has part of her husband's pension as he passed away. Labour's values and the reasons she was up until then a Labour supporter. Students were in it too though did not hear about any reference to foreign students. She was concerned about the tuition fees and how much debt students get into. There may be other topics too but I was listening out for the reference to immigrants mainly. The video from sky is on you tubeoh yeah. She had a lot to say. That's my point, she barely mentioned immigration. And I'm not even sure if it was a specific concern... just a bit of a not to.it as part of general misgivings. Yes that's what I was saying too that she barely mentioned it and the response was she is a bigot. An example of how to shoot yourself in the foot by our former PM 100%. He could not recover from that. Salt of the earth, Gillian Duffy had voted Labour all her life and worked 30 years for Rochdale Council, working with disabled children. She simply aired the concerns of millions, asking about “all these Eastern Europeans coming in”. Further discussions followed and, two-facedly, Brown left her saying she had a 'good family' and it had been 'very nice' to meet her. He then got into his luxury car and demanded to know who put him with 'that woman'. Shocked aides asked what the issue was and he referred to a Labour stalwart pensioner as a 'bigoted woman'. Brown didn't realise he was being recorded at the time, and only apologised when Jeremy Vine played the clip to him on his show, clutching his head in his hands. He moaned that 'they have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen'. On hearing his nonsensical reply, Gillian commented 'He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions that most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments' Gillian hit the nail on head. Even without covid and Ukraine, we were always going to pay for the Labour mess til 2030 odd. Astonishingly, we look like we're going to vote New Improved Labour in by Jan 2025 for much much more of the same and then be sneeringly dismissed as bigots, racists and all the rest of it if we ever dare question anyone on the Left about it. Welcome back Hay
You like where the current Government has taken us over the last 12 years.
I understand that if your perspective is of someone who looks after himself and is fairly affluent.
Ultimately increasing wealth gaps cause societal stress, which is what we are seeing now. That even affects you.
However, based on 12 years of decline (you can highlight some bright spots if you can) you will continue to vote for the same party even though they are taking opposition ideas. You also seem to making up a few elements of Labour immigration policy.
I'm not a Labour supporter, for the record.
You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up.
It's seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them.
If you say so pat.
12 years in power and blaming everyone else except themselves. What a bunch of stupid shits."Refers to the Conservatives having been in power for 12 years and then connects this with anyone who 'dares' to voice Conservative-leaning views, labelling them as 'stupid shits' Very professional and Angrier Rayner-like. | |||
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"He is also advocating more private health care involvement in the NHS. Not what you would expect a Labour minister to say. Why on earth not? You do know that the biggest amount of Privatisation of the NHS was done by Tony Blairs Labour government with the PFI contracts. We got the worst of both worlds. Basically sold off NHS assets only for the NHS having to pay rent on them Correct And Keir Starmer is doing his best Tony Blair impression to fool everyone again! Blair banished Scargill and Hatton in the 90s and Captain Hindsight has seen off Corbyn and McDonnell. The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself Yet waiting times were the lowest ever, our hospitals were renovated and upgraded, the NHS workforce was in place. As a user of the NHS for many years, I’ve seen at its worst under the tories, and it’s best under Labour. Also you’ve got to realise the only reason why PFI had to be done was to undo the years of massive underfunding by the previous major/thatcher government. It was the deal with the devil, but who could blame them? What will happen again, is that Labour will get back in power they will have to undo the damage the tories have done again. That’s history repeating itself. Waiting lists were much lower under New Labour. Then in 2004 the doors were flung open on a 'no questions asked' basis. There are nearly 150,000 unprocessed asylum claims and if Labour get in, immigration will soar ever higher and our population will soon push 75 million by 2030 - with all the pressure that puts on infrastructure, like the NHS. That’s history repeating itself. At least the decent Jack Straw of Labour regrets the decision. Labour thought 13,000 a year would arrive but it was 250,000 per year! Most Labour politicians couldn't care less and a couple of them are thought to have laughed as an admin clerk at an English Language school in London struggled in 2005 with over 1000 migrants trying to sign up for an evening class holding 30 people. 5 years later, Gordon Brown was caught on microphone during the general election referring to a Rochdale pensioner – and lifelong Labour supporter – named Gillian Duffy as a “bigoted woman” after she raised concerns about immigration. Brown’s outrageous comments dismayed many in the Labour party who understood that concerns over immigration could only be dealt with by addressing people’s fears at an intuitive level about proper planning for the infrastructure and cultural integration. The tories have been in government for the last 12 years "Well, yes. Good of you to remind us all how much much worse things could have been if Labour had continued in power after 2010, further damaging the economy and then the exogenous events of covid and Ukraine had hit! | |||
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"Says he who won't address the points I have made about mixing me up with a completely different poster! So I'll make the points again: You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up. It seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. Perhaps you can also explain how asking you to clarify the above is 'a personal attack'? If someone addresses you incorrectly in life, do you just let it pass for fear of being accused of launching 'personal attacks'?! I also genuinely believe some on the Left are bewildered anyone can vote Tory. Over 14 million did in Dec 2019! You must understand difference of political opinion and the right to hold it? Or should we all think the same in some sort of march to a Marxist state? After you've clarified the above, rather than try to bully people by banding about words like 'personal attacks' designed to stifle others, I'll deal with your 'what have 12 years of Tory rule brought us' enquiry
I have little interest in addressing your questions on your name as that isn't the topic of the thread.
I wasn't making any "points" about who you are. I don't need them to be addressed. They are merely observations about your behaviour.
The whole of this block of text is, it appears, whining, so cannot really be bothered.
I'm not "left wing" or "Marxist". By most measures I should be a "natural" Conservative voter, but on the basis of competence and delivery (how I prefer to make my decisions) there is zero chance of that happening. I am certainly far further left than you are. Rather like Ken Clarke, a former Tory Chancellor but that says far more about your position than mine.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how the UK has improved under the last twelve years.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how I am 'Pat' but until then I won't deal with correspondence incorrectly addressed.
"So, still only unable to address the topic of the thread. Just continuing to whine like a twelve year old. QED | |||
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"Says he who won't address the points I have made about mixing me up with a completely different poster! So I'll make the points again: You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up. It seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. Perhaps you can also explain how asking you to clarify the above is 'a personal attack'? If someone addresses you incorrectly in life, do you just let it pass for fear of being accused of launching 'personal attacks'?! I also genuinely believe some on the Left are bewildered anyone can vote Tory. Over 14 million did in Dec 2019! You must understand difference of political opinion and the right to hold it? Or should we all think the same in some sort of march to a Marxist state? After you've clarified the above, rather than try to bully people by banding about words like 'personal attacks' designed to stifle others, I'll deal with your 'what have 12 years of Tory rule brought us' enquiry
I have little interest in addressing your questions on your name as that isn't the topic of the thread.
I wasn't making any "points" about who you are. I don't need them to be addressed. They are merely observations about your behaviour.
The whole of this block of text is, it appears, whining, so cannot really be bothered.
I'm not "left wing" or "Marxist". By most measures I should be a "natural" Conservative voter, but on the basis of competence and delivery (how I prefer to make my decisions) there is zero chance of that happening. I am certainly far further left than you are. Rather like Ken Clarke, a former Tory Chancellor but that says far more about your position than mine.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how the UK has improved under the last twelve years.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how I am 'Pat' but until then I won't deal with correspondence incorrectly addressed.
So, still only unable to address the topic of the thread.
Just continuing to whine like a twelve year old.
QED"Oh dear, there you go again with your personal attacks. You have simply been asked to explain the process by which you came to your opinion that I am called Pat. Any possibility of a reasoned argument swiftly disappears once people start writing personal abuse about people they have never met and can't address properly. Please be civil. | |||
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"Says he who won't address the points I have made about mixing me up with a completely different poster! So I'll make the points again: You know very little about me but assume much. And constantly get it wrong I might add. Why even your opening sentence is addressed incorrectly to 'Hay' which I assume is some connection with 'Pat', a totally different forumite with whom other forumites like to mix me up. It seems to bewilder some people on the left that more than one forumite might consider voting differently to them. Perhaps you can also explain how asking you to clarify the above is 'a personal attack'? If someone addresses you incorrectly in life, do you just let it pass for fear of being accused of launching 'personal attacks'?! I also genuinely believe some on the Left are bewildered anyone can vote Tory. Over 14 million did in Dec 2019! You must understand difference of political opinion and the right to hold it? Or should we all think the same in some sort of march to a Marxist state? After you've clarified the above, rather than try to bully people by banding about words like 'personal attacks' designed to stifle others, I'll deal with your 'what have 12 years of Tory rule brought us' enquiry
I have little interest in addressing your questions on your name as that isn't the topic of the thread.
I wasn't making any "points" about who you are. I don't need them to be addressed. They are merely observations about your behaviour.
The whole of this block of text is, it appears, whining, so cannot really be bothered.
I'm not "left wing" or "Marxist". By most measures I should be a "natural" Conservative voter, but on the basis of competence and delivery (how I prefer to make my decisions) there is zero chance of that happening. I am certainly far further left than you are. Rather like Ken Clarke, a former Tory Chancellor but that says far more about your position than mine.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how the UK has improved under the last twelve years.
I shall look forward to your assessment on how I am 'Pat' but until then I won't deal with correspondence incorrectly addressed.
So, still only unable to address the topic of the thread.
Just continuing to whine like a twelve year old.
QED
Oh dear, there you go again with your personal attacks.
You have simply been asked to explain the process by which you came to your opinion that I am called Pat.
Any possibility of a reasoned argument swiftly disappears once people start writing personal abuse about people they have never met and can't address properly. Please be civil."Because I have no interest in discussing that on a thread about Labour policy on the NHS. What's your opinion of that? You've talked, about their policy on immigration unknowledgeably. If you really have to behave like a child them at least sulk in silence so you don't take up space on the thread, Pat  | |||
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