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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We don't have penal colonies in this country which I believe is a good thing. Also prisoners do work and lots of what they do benefits communities and charities.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??"

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

"

This nonsense just weakens a nation

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"We don't have penal colonies in this country which I believe is a good thing. Also prisoners do work and lots of what they do benefits communities and charities.

"

Punishment before rehab

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We don't have penal colonies in this country which I believe is a good thing. Also prisoners do work and lots of what they do benefits communities and charities.

Punishment before rehab"

No that doesn't work.

A civilised society treats their prisoners well. We can't on one hand say you have committed a crime But we are not going to treat you in a dignified way, that makes the state as bad as the person committing the crime. The punishment is taking away someone's liberty it is not about degrading them or exploiting them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

This nonsense just weakens a nation "

How does it ‘weaken a nation’ ?

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester


"

This nonsense just weakens a nation "

I suggest you explore the Prison Service in Sweden.

Since 2004, their total prisoners have fallen from 5722 to 4500 out of a population of 9.5 million.

England and Wales has a prison population of 85000 out of a population of 57 Million (In 2014)

Reoffending rates at about 40%. In the UK and other European countries they were approx 80% (in 2014)

The big difference is how they catergorise.

In England and Wales, we categorise them as "offenders".

The Swedish model categorises them as people with needs, to be assisted and helped.

Rehabilitation is at the heart of the Swedish model.

In the UK, politicians ramp up a political emphasis on punishment. Making prisoners wear uniforms. Banning books sent to prisoners. Turning off cell lights at 10.30 in young offender institutions.

A Swedish politician who suggested something like that would be thrown out of office. It's a breach of their constitution.

The whole point is sentenced people are still regarded as people with needs. They are still regarded as people.

Not dehumanised. Not treated as subhuman.

Because the moment you demonise them, two things happen.

1. You allow your fear to rule you. You empower them.

2. Your fear drives you to even more barbaric desires for punishment. Making you little better than those you despire.

Apart from a very select few. pretty much every prisoner is going to be released back in to society.

I would rather they had the means and skills to support themselves, free of any addictions, with whatever psychiatric help they need, and a sense of self-worth and civic mindedness, than released with little to no support, a pleathora of mental health issues and/or addictions, and fall back in to their old ways.

I know which one is more a threat to society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

This nonsense just weakens a nation

I suggest you explore the Prison Service in Sweden.

Since 2004, their total prisoners have fallen from 5722 to 4500 out of a population of 9.5 million.

England and Wales has a prison population of 85000 out of a population of 57 Million (In 2014)

Reoffending rates at about 40%. In the UK and other European countries they were approx 80% (in 2014)

The big difference is how they catergorise.

In England and Wales, we categorise them as "offenders".

The Swedish model categorises them as people with needs, to be assisted and helped.

Rehabilitation is at the heart of the Swedish model.

In the UK, politicians ramp up a political emphasis on punishment. Making prisoners wear uniforms. Banning books sent to prisoners. Turning off cell lights at 10.30 in young offender institutions.

A Swedish politician who suggested something like that would be thrown out of office. It's a breach of their constitution.

The whole point is sentenced people are still regarded as people with needs. They are still regarded as people.

Not dehumanised. Not treated as subhuman.

Because the moment you demonise them, two things happen.

1. You allow your fear to rule you. You empower them.

2. Your fear drives you to even more barbaric desires for punishment. Making you little better than those you despire.

Apart from a very select few. pretty much every prisoner is going to be released back in to society.

I would rather they had the means and skills to support themselves, free of any addictions, with whatever psychiatric help they need, and a sense of self-worth and civic mindedness, than released with little to no support, a pleathora of mental health issues and/or addictions, and fall back in to their old ways.

I know which one is more a threat to society."

Brilliant!

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester


".

A civilised society treats their prisoners well. We can't on one hand say you have committed a crime But we are not going to treat you in a dignified way, that makes the state as bad as the person committing the crime. The punishment is taking away someone's liberty it is not about degrading them or exploiting them. "

Extrapolating things further.

It could be argued that our less than stellar approach at rehab, and subsequent releasing of prisoners who go on to reoffend, is in part our responsibility.

Whilst said offender may have fallen in to recidivism, we had (for a while) our hands on said individual and could have/should have spent more effort on their rehab.

Which in a perverse way, makes the Prison Service accountable in some part of the reoffending.

I'm sure Sven might say "Jurgen was released 2 years ago. Got a job in a garage. Pays his taxes. Turned his life around. Your "Fred" was barely out 1 month and is nicking cars again. What the AF are you doing to your prisoners?", to which all I can say is "Very little, clearly".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The way prisons are treated here seems all wrong. I think they're the way they are because of many years of certain papers pushing the tough on crime mantra, along with certain politicians. And certain sections of the public eat that crap up. They think it's all about punishment. Lock em up forever & all that.

But this does nothing to bring down crime figures. Any1 who wants less crime can't subscribe to that sort of view.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester


"The way prisons are treated here seems all wrong. I think they're the way they are because of many years of certain papers pushing the tough on crime mantra, along with certain politicians. And certain sections of the public eat that crap up. They think it's all about punishment. Lock em up forever & all that.

But this does nothing to bring down crime figures. Any1 who wants less crime can't subscribe to that sort of view."

Agreed. It's political posturing for the authoritarian right-wing classes, who get a boner knowing that "Something Must Be Done (tm)" and whatever it is, it must be excoriating and excruciating to the "naughty people" involved. This makes them sleep better at night. They don't want their hard-earned taxes spent rehabilitating dangerous people. That's namby-pamby left-wing snowflake nonsense. They want dangerous people released back on the streets with little to no rehab, a grudge for society, and with mental and drug addiction issues.

The cycle continues anew.

And over their cornflakes the next morning they can read about how a recently-released prisoner went on to reoffend, and turn to their spouse and say knowingly, "See, I told you so", and moan and whinge about how prisons are too soft, whilst that little vein in their forehead bulges just a little bit more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someways I think the OP has a point. We have community payback services which I believe could be a lot better, They could be much more fruitful for the people doing it and making them feel useful and part of society. Could also be more useful things in the community rather than just in charity shops or cleaning graffiti and litter. I am aware in some areas there are some brilliant schemes but this should be everywhere.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??"

That would cost a lot of £££

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Someways I think the OP has a point. We have community payback services which I believe could be a lot better, They could be much more fruitful for the people doing it and making them feel useful and part of society. Could also be more useful things in the community rather than just in charity shops or cleaning graffiti and litter. I am aware in some areas there are some brilliant schemes but this should be everywhere. "

Some excellent and thought provoking posts in this thread. I confess to knowing nothing about how our prisons work or rehabilitation etc.

I wonder whether the treatment of offenders should better fit the seriousness of the crime? And how victims of the crimes would feel about the treatment of the offender/criminal?

(Not sure what words get auto deleted but one beginning with R certainly does) if a child is repeatedly sexually assaulted and left with both physical damage and mental health issues, does the perpetrator deserve rehabilitation and a comfy time in prison?

What about serial killers? Terrorists? Repeat offenders.

My gut instinct is towards severe punishment but that conflicts with the more liberal side of my personality. I do think a debt needs to be repaid to society but while chain gangs would be exploitation, learning skills (apprenticeships) that can provide a productive route out of prison seems sensible. Couldn’t the inmates earn a small wage that is banked for them so that when they leave prison they have both a skill and a small nest egg to get them started (and decent back into work schemes).

Maybe all that exists? As I say I know little on this topic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Someways I think the OP has a point. We have community payback services which I believe could be a lot better, They could be much more fruitful for the people doing it and making them feel useful and part of society. Could also be more useful things in the community rather than just in charity shops or cleaning graffiti and litter. I am aware in some areas there are some brilliant schemes but this should be everywhere.

Some excellent and thought provoking posts in this thread. I confess to knowing nothing about how our prisons work or rehabilitation etc.

I wonder whether the treatment of offenders should better fit the seriousness of the crime? And how victims of the crimes would feel about the treatment of the offender/criminal?

(Not sure what words get auto deleted but one beginning with R certainly does) if a child is repeatedly sexually assaulted and left with both physical damage and mental health issues, does the perpetrator deserve rehabilitation and a comfy time in prison?

What about serial killers? Terrorists? Repeat offenders.

My gut instinct is towards severe punishment but that conflicts with the more liberal side of my personality. I do think a debt needs to be repaid to society but while chain gangs would be exploitation, learning skills (apprenticeships) that can provide a productive route out of prison seems sensible. Couldn’t the inmates earn a small wage that is banked for them so that when they leave prison they have both a skill and a small nest egg to get them started (and decent back into work schemes).

Maybe all that exists? As I say I know little on this topic."

I don't know much about it but prisoners do get a very small wage to buy "extras" Like chocolate and can earn privileges. Those engaging in education programs and therapy are more likely to get early release.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Someways I think the OP has a point. We have community payback services which I believe could be a lot better, They could be much more fruitful for the people doing it and making them feel useful and part of society. Could also be more useful things in the community rather than just in charity shops or cleaning graffiti and litter. I am aware in some areas there are some brilliant schemes but this should be everywhere.

Some excellent and thought provoking posts in this thread. I confess to knowing nothing about how our prisons work or rehabilitation etc.

I wonder whether the treatment of offenders should better fit the seriousness of the crime? And how victims of the crimes would feel about the treatment of the offender/criminal?

(Not sure what words get auto deleted but one beginning with R certainly does) if a child is repeatedly sexually assaulted and left with both physical damage and mental health issues, does the perpetrator deserve rehabilitation and a comfy time in prison?

What about serial killers? Terrorists? Repeat offenders.

My gut instinct is towards severe punishment but that conflicts with the more liberal side of my personality. I do think a debt needs to be repaid to society but while chain gangs would be exploitation, learning skills (apprenticeships) that can provide a productive route out of prison seems sensible. Couldn’t the inmates earn a small wage that is banked for them so that when they leave prison they have both a skill and a small nest egg to get them started (and decent back into work schemes).

Maybe all that exists? As I say I know little on this topic."

The "chain gangs" are illegal under the Modern Sl4very act 2015.

Countries that have sl4ve labour and that execute their citizens, such as the US, have problems with extradition and handing over prisoners.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Get them all on treadmills again.

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow


"Get them all on treadmills again. "

Exercise bikes linked to generators feed the national grid .

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By *ustintime69Man
over a year ago

Bristol

So here’s an interesting one….political prisoners in Belarus are forced to work in logging and timber production and this timber is sold all over Europe as FSC timber but no mention of it being related to political oppression

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby


"We don't have penal colonies in this country which I believe is a good thing. Also prisoners do work and lots of what they do benefits communities and charities.

Punishment before rehab

No that doesn't work.

A civilised society treats their prisoners well. We can't on one hand say you have committed a crime But we are not going to treat you in a dignified way, that makes the state as bad as the person committing the crime. The punishment is taking away someone's liberty it is not about degrading them or exploiting them. "
shouldn’t a civilised society spend more on kids school meals and old people in care homes per head than prisoners?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"We don't have penal colonies in this country which I believe is a good thing. Also prisoners do work and lots of what they do benefits communities and charities.

Punishment before rehab

No that doesn't work.

A civilised society treats their prisoners well. We can't on one hand say you have committed a crime But we are not going to treat you in a dignified way, that makes the state as bad as the person committing the crime. The punishment is taking away someone's liberty it is not about degrading them or exploiting them. shouldn’t a civilised society spend more on kids school meals and old people in care homes per head than prisoners? "

Is it a choice between two options?

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By *ustintime69Man
over a year ago

Bristol

In case it was a bit unclear in my last post, the use of prisoners to provide free (sl*ve) labour goes on in many places around the world and although prisoners here only get paid a pittance for the work they do, this allows them to trade internally within the prison system which would be a great idea except it just reinforces learned behaviour by becoming a means of trading illicit goods such as drink, drugs etc. Another poster suggested that prisoners earnings should go into a kitty which they could then be given access to upon release which sounds really positive but would most likely end up being blown in one binge when they get out. Rehabilitation, if you believe in it, (and I do) has to be funded and needs medical and psychological help for it to work but the acceptance that some people are career criminals and come from a family background of criminality has to be acknowledged and catered for

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

I think they should all have the chance to be rehabilitated. What they do with that chance is up to them. I also think that having the prisoners working would actually help them mentally in the long run. Any profits from this work should go to a charity looking after the victims of crime

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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

"Also prisoners do work and lots of what they do benefits communities and charities"

Their "work" also benefits private companies - putting screws and small bits and pieces in little plastic bags that you buy in B&Q, for example.

As has been said, the punishment is incarceration, with an additional benefit that the general public is protected from the wrong-doer while they're locked away.

The prison term for a murderer is rightly longer than that for a traffic offender or tax evader, but to treat them differently whilst in prison is barbaric.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


".

A civilised society treats their prisoners well. We can't on one hand say you have committed a crime But we are not going to treat you in a dignified way, that makes the state as bad as the person committing the crime. The punishment is taking away someone's liberty it is not about degrading them or exploiting them.

Extrapolating things further.

It could be argued that our less than stellar approach at rehab, and subsequent releasing of prisoners who go on to reoffend, is in part our responsibility.

Whilst said offender may have fallen in to recidivism, we had (for a while) our hands on said individual and could have/should have spent more effort on their rehab.

Which in a perverse way, makes the Prison Service accountable in some part of the reoffending.

I'm sure Sven might say "Jurgen was released 2 years ago. Got a job in a garage. Pays his taxes. Turned his life around. Your "Fred" was barely out 1 month and is nicking cars again. What the AF are you doing to your prisoners?", to which all I can say is "Very little, clearly". also some won't change no matter what you throw at them career criminal and for some prison isn't a deterrent

"

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

If prisoners volunteered for work, such as fruit picking then that should be taken up

Obviously that wouldn't apply to any prisoner that's been convicted of any crime that's involved violence, but your low grade sentenced prisoners could be given a chance to be useful, and to offer something back as part of their rehabilitation.

It should be remembered that many German and Italian Pows were involved in such schemes during WW2 without incident.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If prisoners volunteered for work, such as fruit picking then that should be taken up

Obviously that wouldn't apply to any prisoner that's been convicted of any crime that's involved violence, but your low grade sentenced prisoners could be given a chance to be useful, and to offer something back as part of their rehabilitation.

It should be remembered that many German and Italian Pows were involved in such schemes during WW2 without incident."
and what would you do if they said no I'll sit in my cell thanks do my time

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"If prisoners volunteered for work, such as fruit picking then that should be taken up

Obviously that wouldn't apply to any prisoner that's been convicted of any crime that's involved violence, but your low grade sentenced prisoners could be given a chance to be useful, and to offer something back as part of their rehabilitation.

It should be remembered that many German and Italian Pows were involved in such schemes during WW2 without incident. and what would you do if they said no I'll sit in my cell thanks do my time "

I think it's an idea to give them the chance to work. I hope it helps towards early release though this needs to be balanced with other things. For those that opt to sit in their cell and not work then they should serve the full term

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

This nonsense just weakens a nation

How does it ‘weaken a nation’ ? "

It undermines the whole point of the judicial system which used to be punishment first Why do you have an issue with that

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"If prisoners volunteered for work, such as fruit picking then that should be taken up

Obviously that wouldn't apply to any prisoner that's been convicted of any crime that's involved violence, but your low grade sentenced prisoners could be given a chance to be useful, and to offer something back as part of their rehabilitation.

It should be remembered that many German and Italian Pows were involved in such schemes during WW2 without incident. and what would you do if they said no I'll sit in my cell thanks do my time "

Let them

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By *coptoCouple
over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

“… many German and Italian Pows were involved in such schemes during WW2 without incident”

Thread drift, but the other side of the coin as it were, and some might find it interesting:

My German father-in-law was conscripted leaving his wife alone to run their farm. So that neighbour wouldn’t be fighting neighbour (or even family), those from the West were sent off to Russia, those from the East were brought to the Western front. But the old girl was “given” French POWs to work the farm, everything went well although she used to tell how whenever there was a knock at the door at lunch- or dinner-time, the French guys knew to jump up, one grabbing a broom, another washing up or whatever. It was in principle forbidden for the POWs to eat at their table, and one never knew who was likely to “tell tales” to the Gestapo.

Later, French POWs were allowed to return to their homes and were replaced by POWs captured on the Eastern front (Poles etc., what we’d now call “Eastern Europeans”, no Russians were ever taken prisoner, surprise, surprise). Whole different kettle of fish, they didn’t have the sense to “play the game”, most had never seen an inside toilet and certainly didn’t know how to use one. They had to be locked in a barn at night, proved more trouble than they were worth, and by the time the old boy got back home the farm had fallen into ruin. As for the local village, some clown had taken a wild pot-shot in the direction of American troops; they calmly evacuated everybody, dynamited exactly one half of the houses, and told the locals: “Now go back sort yourselves out”. Slightly less drastic than the Nazis would have done in the same circumstances, I suppose…

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??"

Give them each a peloton bike or treadmill bolted to a generator and get them creating crim watts 23 hrs a day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

This nonsense just weakens a nation

How does it ‘weaken a nation’ ?

It undermines the whole point of the judicial system which used to be punishment first Why do you have an issue with that"

And it didn't work.

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

This nonsense just weakens a nation

How does it ‘weaken a nation’ ?

It undermines the whole point of the judicial system which used to be punishment first Why do you have an issue with that

And it didn't work.

"

Because the powers that be took a liberal view

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

This nonsense just weakens a nation

How does it ‘weaken a nation’ ?

It undermines the whole point of the judicial system which used to be punishment first Why do you have an issue with that"

Because your talking rubbish

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"So whilst the rest of the country is going to freeze and many struggling to pay bills and feed themselves.

I'm sure that the criminal fraternity will be enjoying 3 square meals and uninterrupted heating.

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that we let them starve and freeze.

But their must be a way of harnessing all that labour for good for the benefit of society??

That's enforced labour.

So as well as legal deprivation of their liberty, you wish to inflict even more arbitrary punitive punishment on prisoners as well and believe this to be a "good" action ?

That's not rehabilitation.

It's exploitation.

Sorry, but we have a duty of care to those we incarcerate at our pleasure. True, their actions may have led them there, but once there we have a responsibility of care.

Some of them may be animals. We are not.

This nonsense just weakens a nation

How does it ‘weaken a nation’ ?

It undermines the whole point of the judicial system which used to be punishment first Why do you have an issue with that

And it didn't work.

Because the powers that be took a liberal view"

Does treating prisoners poorly make a nation strong?

Some of the most brutal prison regimes are in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. Not necessarily known as being strong.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester


"

Because the powers that be took a liberal view"

You are conflating "liberal" with weakness.

It is neither weak nor soft to give a prisoner an opportunity to rehabilitate themselves. To manage and try to remove any addictions. To deal with anger management and other mental health issues.

All of which require one-to-one face-time and physical presence with said prisoner. Weak-minded people would not survive such an environment.

The word you should have used is "compassionate".

Do you know what is weak ? Those who are too terrified to face the prisoner and their issues head on, and instead would rather lock them up and brutalise them more and more.

That, by definition is "weak".

It's also complicit in failing to address the prisoner's specific problems, and should be held accountable when the prisoner is released and re-offends.

Thankfully, the liberal Swedish Prison Service are releasing prisoners back in to society with the lowest rates of reoffending in the world. They are making communities safer.

Curse those pesky liberals, eh ?

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By *aldyman500Man
over a year ago

Enfield

I hope you never buy a poppy for remembrance day because where they come from as told by the British legion is a lie they are made by prisoners in hmp bellmarsh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The way prisons are treated here seems all wrong. I think they're the way they are because of many years of certain papers pushing the tough on crime mantra, along with certain politicians. And certain sections of the public eat that crap up. They think it's all about punishment. Lock em up forever & all that.

But this does nothing to bring down crime figures. Any1 who wants less crime can't subscribe to that sort of view."
crime figures won't come down until society excepts that some people are that way won't work for pennies I'll steal better money took me yrs to break that thought was it worth it not sure but I'm happy

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.


"

Because the powers that be took a liberal view

You are conflating "liberal" with weakness.

It is neither weak nor soft to give a prisoner an opportunity to rehabilitate themselves. To manage and try to remove any addictions. To deal with anger management and other mental health issues.

All of which require one-to-one face-time and physical presence with said prisoner. Weak-minded people would not survive such an environment.

The word you should have used is "compassionate".

Do you know what is weak ? Those who are too terrified to face the prisoner and their issues head on, and instead would rather lock them up and brutalise them more and more.

That, by definition is "weak".

It's also complicit in failing to address the prisoner's specific problems, and should be held accountable when the prisoner is released and re-offends.

Thankfully, the liberal Swedish Prison Service are releasing prisoners back in to society with the lowest rates of reoffending in the world. They are making communities safer.

Curse those pesky liberals, eh ?

"

Yeah great example Sweden has a population a shade over 10 million so far easier to monitor offender's with a smaller prison population.

There's nearly as many people who live in London as the whole of Sweden.

Sorry that example doesn't work.

Find a country that has roughly the same population and crime rate as the UK who has a better rehabilitation track record, come back with an example then perhaps a reasonable discussion can be had.

Until then

As long as criminals get access to free medical, dental, mental health services,free food and heating.

Benefits and housing assistant upon release it's hardly a deterrent to prevent further criminal activity.

Given the current cost of living crisis it wouldn't surprise me if people are intentionally getting locked up to avoid freezing and starving?

Ok my original post perhaps I should have been more detailed in regards making use of the prison population.

I certainly didn't mean chain gang's.

However what's wrong with giving people a choice to work even if it's hard manual labour?

But I'm talking perhaps helping people learn a new skill and fill Gap's in the employment market such as hospitality, catering, trade's, driving, and so on.

Ok so it's not going to work for a large number of prisoners particularly violent one's.

But there must be a large number who just needs someone to trust and believe in them and the chance to walk straight into a job upon release is going to help.

But locking them up 6 to a cell for 23hrs a day is a wasted opportunity for all concerned.

By making it to easy to do nothing and get everything for nothing isn't morally any worse than using them for labour shortage.

Is it?

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