FabSwingers.com forum: BP profits. Should they pay more?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to."

Tell you what, they should pay more.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Was that domestic or international?

It will likely be international. The uk has reciprocal treaties with other countries. So that double taxation can't happen

If a subsidiary of BP makes $1bn in Mexico say and is taxed 20%. Then remits the remaining profit to its parent in the uk. The UK tax being 19% can not charge on that remaining $800m. Its already been taxed.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

Absolutely.

The government are on their payroll, so there is absolutely zero chance they will.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

They legally through international law can NOT charge against foreign profits because of the treaties mentioned

The domestic companies of shell and BP are already taxed 65% and capped on domestic profits in gas for home supply.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"They legally through international law can NOT charge against foreign profits because of the treaties mentioned

The domestic companies of shell and BP are already taxed 65% and capped on domestic profits in gas for home supply."

Is the OP talking about international profit?

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Yes they are.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Yes they are."

Maybe we should just have kept the energy price cap where it was.

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

They should snatch, use some to pay off government debt Liz's infamous Energy Package will cost and then some, to cover what sounds like is going to be a U Turn on Sizewell project.

We need more investment in Nuclear and Renewable, not less. Shell, BP and any other company involved in extraction be forced to pay for it.

They are obviously not capable of sensible investments themselves, so Windfall it.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Yes they are.

Maybe we should just have kept the energy price cap where it was."

Erm. Then you'd be asking the private companies to subsidise the uk government and they'd have simply topped supplying us and moved supply else where?

It would have also breached government agreements. So you want the government to break the law?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Yes they are.

Maybe we should just have kept the energy price cap where it was.

Erm. Then you'd be asking the private companies to subsidise the uk government and they'd have simply topped supplying us and moved supply else where?

It would have also breached government agreements. So you want the government to break the law?"

This wouldn't be private companies subsidising the government.

Honestly I don't know what law holds the government to increase the cap allowed oil companies to make even greater profits during a cost of living crisis. But it's a shit law, and I would vote for a party who pledged to change it.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

The cap reflect the market price that the gas costs to import. Most gas companies buy gas on a 6-12 month forward agreement on price.

So the gas they are supply now. Was bought 6 months ago or more at a more expensive price. So the cap reflects that and limits their profits per household to £20 per annum.

That's right.they make 0.5% profit on supplying your household with gas.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The cap reflect the market price that the gas costs to import. Most gas companies buy gas on a 6-12 month forward agreement on price.

So the gas they are supply now. Was bought 6 months ago or more at a more expensive price. So the cap reflects that and limits their profits per household to £20 per annum.

That's right.they make 0.5% profit on supplying your household with gas."

Interesting.

They seem to be doing pretty well out of that 0.5%.

The big picture solution is to move away from fossil fuels. But as the government has little to no interest in doing that, we're stuck with this current system.

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

Are you not confusing Wholesale with Retail?

Retail would have agreed the price 6 months ago, but strangely, mother Earth didn't change her pricing to Wholesalers.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"The cap reflect the market price that the gas costs to import. Most gas companies buy gas on a 6-12 month forward agreement on price.

So the gas they are supply now. Was bought 6 months ago or more at a more expensive price. So the cap reflects that and limits their profits per household to £20 per annum.

That's right.they make 0.5% profit on supplying your household with gas.

Interesting.

They seem to be doing pretty well out of that 0.5%.

The big picture solution is to move away from fossil fuels. But as the government has little to no interest in doing that, we're stuck with this current system. "

Well you are conflating many issues.

Gas, vs petrol income. Other investments. Eg invement into some car payment providers ryd battery testing centres.

The price cap only affects residential bot business.

The rest of their profits as already stated. May not be driven by domestic supply. So the price cap has little influence.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The cap reflect the market price that the gas costs to import. Most gas companies buy gas on a 6-12 month forward agreement on price.

So the gas they are supply now. Was bought 6 months ago or more at a more expensive price. So the cap reflects that and limits their profits per household to £20 per annum.

That's right.they make 0.5% profit on supplying your household with gas.

Interesting.

They seem to be doing pretty well out of that 0.5%.

The big picture solution is to move away from fossil fuels. But as the government has little to no interest in doing that, we're stuck with this current system.

Well you are conflating many issues.

Gas, vs petrol income. Other investments. Eg invement into some car payment providers ryd battery testing centres.

The price cap only affects residential bot business.

The rest of their profits as already stated. May not be driven by domestic supply. So the price cap has little influence."

I'm not arguing with you.

I don't know the legalities in this situation.

The fossil fuel multinationals are making billions in profit. We now have to pay much high electricity bills. Seems reasonable that people question this.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"The cap reflect the market price that the gas costs to import. Most gas companies buy gas on a 6-12 month forward agreement on price.

So the gas they are supply now. Was bought 6 months ago or more at a more expensive price. So the cap reflects that and limits their profits per household to £20 per annum.

That's right.they make 0.5% profit on supplying your household with gas.

Interesting.

They seem to be doing pretty well out of that 0.5%.

The big picture solution is to move away from fossil fuels. But as the government has little to no interest in doing that, we're stuck with this current system.

Well you are conflating many issues.

Gas, vs petrol income. Other investments. Eg invement into some car payment providers ryd battery testing centres.

The price cap only affects residential bot business.

The rest of their profits as already stated. May not be driven by domestic supply. So the price cap has little influence.

I'm not arguing with you.

I don't know the legalities in this situation.

The fossil fuel multinationals are making billions in profit. We now have to pay much high electricity bills. Seems reasonable that people question this."

Question it sure.

But when the answer is that thebuk has no right to tax these profits accept that answer. Sadly the uk doesn't have that right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yes they bloody well should, the absolute bastards.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to."

I think the keywords here are “unexpected profits” … as a business they will know how well extra they have done due to the price rises… so it should be that bit they are hit for in windfall taxes!

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to.

If you ran a business.

Let's say you make £10m proft in the usa

And £1m profit domestically. But you are based in the uk. But export a lot.

In the usa you pay 50% tax on profits. And the uk 20%

So you make £5m in the usa. And then £800k here.

Would you then want to pay another £1m in the uk for profits you transferred back?

Oooooor

Would you just move to the USA?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to.

If you ran a business.

Let's say you make £10m proft in the usa

And £1m profit domestically. But you are based in the uk. But export a lot.

In the usa you pay 50% tax on profits. And the uk 20%

So you make £5m in the usa. And then £800k here.

Would you then want to pay another £1m in the uk for profits you transferred back?

Oooooor

Would you just move to the USA?

Again… the keyword is “unexpected” …..

if you are selling something that is a necessity, and the price doubled overnight through no reason of your own, but the product didn’t cost you anything more to make or produce

Then why are you getting all the profits!

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to.

If you ran a business.

Let's say you make £10m proft in the usa

And £1m profit domestically. But you are based in the uk. But export a lot.

In the usa you pay 50% tax on profits. And the uk 20%

So you make £5m in the usa. And then £800k here.

Would you then want to pay another £1m in the uk for profits you transferred back?

Oooooor

Would you just move to the USA?

Again… the keyword is “unexpected” …..

if you are selling something that is a necessity, and the price doubled overnight through no reason of your own, but the product didn’t cost you anything more to make or produce

Then why are you getting all the profits!

But enexpected isn't the key word.

The key u derstanding is how bi lateral treaties and company listing work.

Why as a company would you stay in a country that's double taxing you?

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

But that price double abroad....and you paid that tax...abroad on that doubling of price.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to."

I guess the easiest way for the government to ease the burden on the public would be to reduce the amount of duty and VAT charged on each litre.

The oil companies aren't the only ones raking it in.

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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago

Near Wells

I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/11/22 22:22:52]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment."

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing."

This is true. Compared to say the billions spunked down the brexit toilet, this is peanuts. But still, anything to slow the financial burden shifting further onto ordinary people would be a positive step.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to.

If you ran a business.

Let's say you make £10m proft in the usa

And £1m profit domestically. But you are based in the uk. But export a lot.

In the usa you pay 50% tax on profits. And the uk 20%

So you make £5m in the usa. And then £800k here.

Would you then want to pay another £1m in the uk for profits you transferred back?

Oooooor

Would you just move to the USA?

The windfall tax is levied against extraction so this nonsense about dtr and profits booked in Mexico or the Us is irrelevant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Distraction from the real truth...

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to.

If you ran a business.

Let's say you make £10m proft in the usa

And £1m profit domestically. But you are based in the uk. But export a lot.

In the usa you pay 50% tax on profits. And the uk 20%

So you make £5m in the usa. And then £800k here.

Would you then want to pay another £1m in the uk for profits you transferred back?

Oooooor

Would you just move to the USA?

The windfall tax is levied against extraction so this nonsense about dtr and profits booked in Mexico or the Us is irrelevant "

The bit about Mexico relates to the claim of total profits as op discussed.

I shouldnt have to clarify this. But for some reason people can't read.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

The windfall tax is levied against extraction so this nonsense about dtr and profits booked in Mexico or the Us is irrelevant

The bit about Mexico relates to the claim of total profits as op discussed.

I shouldnt have to clarify this. But for some reason people can't read."

I think you're a bit confused over corporation tax being levied at 19% too

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

The windfall tax is levied against extraction so this nonsense about dtr and profits booked in Mexico or the Us is irrelevant

The bit about Mexico relates to the claim of total profits as op discussed.

I shouldnt have to clarify this. But for some reason people can't read.

I think you're a bit confused over corporation tax being levied at 19% too"

I am giving a scenario on basic corporation tax and intergovernmental agreements.

Sadly this has obviously gone over your head.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

As I said.

Things have gone over your head.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowances-corporation-tax/rates-and-allowances-corporation-tax#:~:text=At%20Budget%202020%2C%20the%20government,2021%20would%20remain%20at%2019%25.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

But that's not the scenario which determines any windfall tax liability

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"But that's not the scenario which determines any windfall tax liability "

OK...becauseclearly it does need examining....again..

I am saying.

BP made 7bn profit

Only SOME of that was on the uk

Only SOME of that is open tonthe 65% tax

Some isnalso 19%

The MAJORITY is from foreign operations being remitted back to the uk.

They REMITTED profit have ALREADY been TAXED and because kf INTERNSTIONAL TAX AGREEMENTS can't be taxed again.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"As I said.

Things have gone over your head.

Activities within the UK is levied at 30% (which may have gone over your head)

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"As I said.

Things have gone over your head.

Activities within the UK is levied at 30% (which may have gone over your head)"

Do literally not pay attention to what is in front of you?

Read whatbi have written about the 65% charge. And read what is written about other charges.

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By *orleymanMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Genuine question. You know what a subsidiary is right. You know different tax levies apply do different subsidiaries based on their income generation?

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"As I said.

Things have gone over your head.

Activities within the UK is levied at 30% (which may have gone over your head)

Do literally not pay attention to what is in front of you?

Read whatbi have written about the 65% charge. And read what is written about other charges."

Again so activities in Mexico or the US are erroneous as they fall outside the scope of the windfall tax. Whether BP claims a dtr for a litre of E10 sold on a forecourt in Mexico City is irrelevant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

Agreed, I'm sure you will also support cutting all the wasted expenditure on HS2, Net Zero, housing illegal immigrants in spa hotels, etc etc.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

Agreed, I'm sure you will also support cutting all the wasted expenditure on HS2, Net Zero, housing illegal immigrants in spa hotels, etc etc."

Tackling climate change needed to happen in the 80s. The longer we leave it, the more it will cost and the more damage we're doing to the planet. The sooner we can ease off fossil fuels the sooner we will be energy independent. The longer we leave it, the deeper the problem becomes.

The immigration issue is way way way way down the list of problems in this county. I'm not distracted with fear and race hate based misdirection.

HS2. Sure that was a waste of money, and to be honest, I don't know what's happening with it right now.

Hope that helps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

Agreed, I'm sure you will also support cutting all the wasted expenditure on HS2, Net Zero, housing illegal immigrants in spa hotels, etc etc.

The immigration issue is way way way way down the list of problems in this county. I'm not distracted with fear and race hate based misdirection.

HS2. Sure that was a waste of money, and to be honest, I don't know what's happening with it right now.

Hope that helps."

So now it's down to "easing off" fossil fuels ....sounds like it's all going well to plan.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

Agreed, I'm sure you will also support cutting all the wasted expenditure on HS2, Net Zero, housing illegal immigrants in spa hotels, etc etc.

The immigration issue is way way way way down the list of problems in this county. I'm not distracted with fear and race hate based misdirection.

HS2. Sure that was a waste of money, and to be honest, I don't know what's happening with it right now.

Hope that helps.

So now it's down to "easing off" fossil fuels ....sounds like it's all going well to plan."

What?

It's not, the government is in the pocket of the oil companies and is woefully behind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

Agreed, I'm sure you will also support cutting all the wasted expenditure on HS2, Net Zero, housing illegal immigrants in spa hotels, etc etc.

The immigration issue is way way way way down the list of problems in this county. I'm not distracted with fear and race hate based misdirection.

HS2. Sure that was a waste of money, and to be honest, I don't know what's happening with it right now.

Hope that helps.

So now it's down to "easing off" fossil fuels ....sounds like it's all going well to plan.

What?

It's not, the government is in the pocket of the oil companies and is woefully behind."

Woefully behind what?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"I don't think BP and Shell etc should pay anything less. It should be us, the customers paying less for our fuel and energy.

I'm all for capitalism and making money but we're being taken for fools at the moment.

I'm not sure Shell are actually going to pay anything.

The money that's going to be raised from the windfall tax will just be peanuts in the context of government debt. Just political posturing.

Agreed, I'm sure you will also support cutting all the wasted expenditure on HS2, Net Zero, housing illegal immigrants in spa hotels, etc etc.

The immigration issue is way way way way down the list of problems in this county. I'm not distracted with fear and race hate based misdirection.

HS2. Sure that was a waste of money, and to be honest, I don't know what's happening with it right now.

Hope that helps.

So now it's down to "easing off" fossil fuels ....sounds like it's all going well to plan.

What?

It's not, the government is in the pocket of the oil companies and is woefully behind.

Woefully behind what?"

Transitioning off fossil fuels.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"BP reportedly made £7.1 billion in profit between July & September. More than double what they made last year. BP apparently expects to pay $800m in UK windfall taxes this year.

While BP make such huge profits & the public is being hammered over bill rises, shouldn't they pay more? They can obviously afford to."

How much money did they make that is subject to UK tax (including windfall) and how much tax in total have they got to pay? I think it would be good if they pay a bit more, maybe via the windfall route but looks like international earnings and local earnings are being put together

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