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"The UK has stopped trying to look tough over Northern Ireland and starting to engage with European countries and the EU at the European Political Community meeting. Truss has even managed to stop insulting the French. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63111685 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63167530" That was an interesting ploy by Truss, speak down on France to please the tory faithful and securing her place as PM, then putting her arms around Macron at the very first opportunity. Not sure what Macron's plans are for the EPC... | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh?" Yup  | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh?" "Yup "It's almost like the UK government weren't just trying to look tough, and they were in fact right all along. | |||
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"I think the actions of Putin, have made European leaders realise that the enemy is not within Europe but on its borders." The European leaders have never treated the UK as an enemy. It's the UK government that has been a bunch of useless deliberately antagonistic pillocks throughout the entire brexit process. The EU has been incredibly patient acting as the adult in the conversation while successive tory governments have acted like screaming toddlers... "I wanna brexit!!!" "No don't like that brexit!!!" "Wanna brexit, gonna scream an scream an scream if I don't getta brexit!!!" "Wah, wrong brexit, wah wahhhh"... | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh? Yup
It's almost like the UK government weren't just trying to look tough, and they were in fact right all along."Then why did Steve Baker apologise? Didn't read the original articles again? Now that the UK Government has stopped threatening unilateral changes and started talking more calmly it allows everyone to do the same. Do you not get diplomacy and negotiation? | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh? Yup
It's almost like the UK government weren't just trying to look tough, and they were in fact right all along.
Then why did Steve Baker apologise?
Didn't read the original articles again?
Now that the UK Government has stopped threatening unilateral changes and started talking more calmly it allows everyone to do the same.
Do you not get diplomacy and negotiation?"Perhaps it’s got something to do with not having Lord Frost firing off his fat mouth relentlessly? | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh?" "Yup ""It's almost like the UK government weren't just trying to look tough, and they were in fact right all along." "Then why did Steve Baker apologise? ... Do you not get diplomacy and negotiation?" I do understand negotiation and diplomacy. Negotiation is all about taking a tough stance and then allowing the other party to barter you down. Diplomacy often involves apologising for something to make the other party feel better, even though you don't mean it. I apologise for not explaining myself better in my previous post. | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh? Yup
It's almost like the UK government weren't just trying to look tough, and they were in fact right all along.
Then why did Steve Baker apologise?
Didn't read the original articles again?
Now that the UK Government has stopped threatening unilateral changes and started talking more calmly it allows everyone to do the same.
Do you not get diplomacy and negotiation?
Perhaps it’s got something to do with not having Lord Frost firing off his fat mouth relentlessly?"Bit sizeist ……. but hell he doesn’t shy away from insults so he can’t complain and the sentiment is so right | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh? Yup
It's almost like the UK government weren't just trying to look tough, and they were in fact right all along.
Then why did Steve Baker apologise?
...
Do you not get diplomacy and negotiation?
I do understand negotiation and diplomacy. Negotiation is all about taking a tough stance and then allowing the other party to barter you down. Diplomacy often involves apologising for something to make the other party feel better, even though you don't mean it.
I apologise for not explaining myself better in my previous post."The poster above you made the point. If you stop making threats and blaming the other side 100% you are likely to make some progress. That is what has happened, yet you seem to disagree. You have taken in zero information. | |||
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"I think the actions of Putin, have made European leaders realise that the enemy is not within Europe but on its borders. The European leaders have never treated the UK as an enemy. It's the UK government that has been a bunch of useless deliberately antagonistic pillocks throughout the entire brexit process. The EU has been incredibly patient acting as the adult in the conversation while successive tory governments have acted like screaming toddlers... "I wanna brexit!!!" "No don't like that brexit!!!" "Wanna brexit, gonna scream an scream an scream if I don't getta brexit!!!" "Wah, wrong brexit, wah wahhhh"..." Only you mentioned the UK and Brexit. The UK made a democratic choice, and the EU respected that. Other tensions exist within Europe. Hungary, Poland, Italy, Turkey....not many countries have no or little historical problems. Collectively, the whole of Europe is experiencing larger concerns on many issues, mainly due to Putin's actions. Collectively, Europe can negate these problems but it needs a sense of realism and cooperation to succeed. | |||
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"I think the actions of Putin, have made European leaders realise that the enemy is not within Europe but on its borders. The European leaders have never treated the UK as an enemy. It's the UK government that has been a bunch of useless deliberately antagonistic pillocks throughout the entire brexit process. The EU has been incredibly patient acting as the adult in the conversation while successive tory governments have acted like screaming toddlers... "I wanna brexit!!!" "No don't like that brexit!!!" "Wanna brexit, gonna scream an scream an scream if I don't getta brexit!!!" "Wah, wrong brexit, wah wahhhh"... Only you mentioned the UK and Brexit. The UK made a democratic choice, and the EU respected that. Other tensions exist within Europe. Hungary, Poland, Italy, Turkey....not many countries have no or little historical problems. Collectively, the whole of Europe is experiencing larger concerns on many issues, mainly due to Putin's actions. Collectively, Europe can negate these problems but it needs a sense of realism and cooperation to succeed." How do internal EU tensions relate to the UK coming to an agreement and then wishing to unilaterally change it whilst blaming the EU for everything? Do you not think that it is the UKs complete change of tone and approach that has changed the dynamic? | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh?" Yes, I believe he has. The recent change is in how they approach the talks not their position which seems unchanged. I believe the legislation for unilateral change has not been scrapped though could take a long time to get through. Nothing wrong with being polite while disagreeing | |||
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"Nothing wrong with being polite while disagreeing" We should adopt that as the forum motto. | |||
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"Probably will not work, the EU will say free movement of people and the UK will say NO! The End " The disagreement over the NI Protocol is not about the free movement of people so not likely to cause a problem... | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh? Yes, I believe he has. The recent change is in how they approach the talks not their position which seems unchanged. I believe the legislation for unilateral change has not been scrapped though could take a long time to get through. Nothing wrong with being polite while disagreeing" Here's the sentiment behind the change of tone, from an Irish perspective: "The dramatic shift in tone from London in the past week or so has been very cautiously welcomed by the EU and the Irish Government, but sources at all levels have stressed that they would wait to see what the British were saying in negotiations before they got too excited about a possible resolution." https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/10/06/prague-summit-brexit-window-of-opportunity-opens-again/ | |||
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"Hasn't Leo Varadkar come out and said that the NI protocol is too harsh? Yes, I believe he has. The recent change is in how they approach the talks not their position which seems unchanged. I believe the legislation for unilateral change has not been scrapped though could take a long time to get through. Nothing wrong with being polite while disagreeing Here's the sentiment behind the change of tone, from an Irish perspective: "The dramatic shift in tone from London in the past week or so has been very cautiously welcomed by the EU and the Irish Government, but sources at all levels have stressed that they would wait to see what the British were saying in negotiations before they got too excited about a possible resolution." https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/10/06/prague-summit-brexit-window-of-opportunity-opens-again/" That seems to agree with what I was saying | |||
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"'The UK, he [Steve Baker] said, did not always "behave in a way which encouraged Ireland and the European Union to trust us to accept that they have legitimate interests. "I am sorry about that," he said.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63159762" I see that too and think he was amongst the first to say such things. Some good will or slightly better will seems to have broken out on both sides though as mentioned, the positions have not changed but at least there is some hope | |||
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"'The UK, he [Steve Baker] said, did not always "behave in a way which encouraged Ireland and the European Union to trust us to accept that they have legitimate interests. "I am sorry about that," he said.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63159762 I see that too and think he was amongst the first to say such things. Some good will or slightly better will seems to have broken out on both sides though as mentioned, the positions have not changed but at least there is some hope" Talking is a big step forward from insults. | |||
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"'The UK, he [Steve Baker] said, did not always "behave in a way which encouraged Ireland and the European Union to trust us to accept that they have legitimate interests. "I am sorry about that," he said.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63159762 I see that too and think he was amongst the first to say such things. Some good will or slightly better will seems to have broken out on both sides though as mentioned, the positions have not changed but at least there is some hope Talking is a big step forward from insults." Indeed it is and with both sides focused on the issues rather than having a go at each other, maybe just maybe progress can be made | |||
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