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"Unbelievable that nobody has considered this before. https://news.sky.com/video/cut-consumption-or-get-a-new-higher-paid-job-says-conservative-party-chair-12710016 The rest of this article aged quite quickly, didn't it? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-conference-jobs-bills-economy-b2190968.html" Is Auntie Liz and Kami-Kwasi going to lead by example and start by increasing Nurses, Police, Fire Fighter and Council employees pay then? NHS Unions are currently voting on whether to strike or not. | |||
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"Unbelievable that nobody has considered this before. https://news.sky.com/video/cut-consumption-or-get-a-new-higher-paid-job-says-conservative-party-chair-12710016 The rest of this article aged quite quickly, didn't it? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-conference-jobs-bills-economy-b2190968.html Is Auntie Liz and Kami-Kwasi going to lead by example and start by increasing Nurses, Police, Fire Fighter and Council employees pay then? NHS Unions are currently voting on whether to strike or not." Mr Clarke, who is chief secretary to the Treasury, told the BBC that "unrealistic expectations around pay" could "intensify this endless inflation problem" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61846102.amp | |||
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"Nearly forgot, she's guaranteeing Pension increases in line with Inflation under the Triple Lock. But if you're on any kind of benefits - absolutely nothing." At least there's one positive then. | |||
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"Live within your means "and hope your means aren't made to be worth less by barmy policies | |||
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"Live within your means "Should people aspire to not have their means squeezed for the benefit of the top 0.1%? | |||
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"Live within your means "Is that what increasing borrowing by £45bn is? Is living in your means what was being proposed? Be cold or get a better job. As nobody would want a better job for any other reason. Is that the reason why benefits will not be raised on line with inflation? To make sure that people are in need and will be "motivated" to get better jobs? | |||
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"Live within your means "A lot of people have been living within their means. Then the cost of living outstripped their means. | |||
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"Live within your means
A lot of people have been living within their means. Then the cost of living outstripped their means. "By a factor of three.. | |||
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"Live within your means "I agree for people who have a choice to be able to cut back on nonessential items. However, there are a hell of a lot of people who simply have no choice and will be without food or heating. Going back to your point of living within your means. The government paying to discount everyones energy bills by £400, even to those who can afford to do without it. Could they not have come up with a better idea that would have meant that support could have been focused more effectively on those that really need it? If I don't need it, someone else who does can have extra support, it also would cost no more than they budgeted for. This governments weakness is their focus on tactical thinking with no thoughts on a strategy, it will be their undoing. | |||
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"Live within your means "Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on? | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?"Current government advice is to use less and get a better paid job. However we mustn't strike to make the job we have better paid we must all dash off to interviews for Hedge Fund managers | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?"Devils advocate ... Find alternative or additional means ... Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff! | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!"Then the rules of capitalism apply If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve. Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!"A lot of people will do that. In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
A lot of people will do that.
In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills. "I do agree but people can reskill and educate to move up the ladder. It's unfortunate that many have grown accustomed to a life on benefits and are not trying to get a better job or even a first job. Of course there are other very unfortunate people who can't work and they suffer because of the ones that abuse the system. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate."But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs? A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ? Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate.
But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs?
A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ?
Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look"This thread was started because Jake Berry the tory chair, is suggesting people either cut consumption when they get their fuel bill or go out and get a higher paid job. You have said getting paid more will fuel inflation... Can you see it doesn't make any sense? Does he expect everyone working to simply get a higher paid job, demand more pay? Well that leads to strikes, and the government are not to keen on those.. Finally if everyone took his advice and it played out it would fall straight back into your summary of fuelling inflation. The comments he made show a lack of empathy, with no grasp on the realities that people and business are facing right now. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate.
But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs?
A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ?
Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look
This thread was started because Jake Berry the tory chair, is suggesting people either cut consumption when they get their fuel bill or go out and get a higher paid job.
You have said getting paid more will fuel inflation...
Can you see it doesn't make any sense? Does he expect everyone working to simply get a higher paid job, demand more pay? Well that leads to strikes, and the government are not to keen on those..
Finally if everyone took his advice and it played out it would fall straight back into your summary of fuelling inflation.
The comments he made show a lack of empathy, with no grasp on the realities that people and business are facing right now. " with brass knobs on | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate.
But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs?
A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ?
Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look"Then the rules of competition will come into play. Sure companies can try passing increased labour costs on to the customer and price themselves out of the market, but the companies that reduce their profit margins and keep prices down will be the ones that survive. The days of cheap labour from the continent are over. We're supposed to be moving to a high wage/low tax economy right? Well... Tories have cut the taxes, so its time businesses started paying those high wages. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate.
But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs?
A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ?
Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look
This thread was started because Jake Berry the tory chair, is suggesting people either cut consumption when they get their fuel bill or go out and get a higher paid job.
You have said getting paid more will fuel inflation...
Can you see it doesn't make any sense? Does he expect everyone working to simply get a higher paid job, demand more pay? Well that leads to strikes, and the government are not to keen on those..
Finally if everyone took his advice and it played out it would fall straight back into your summary of fuelling inflation.
The comments he made show a lack of empathy, with no grasp on the realities that people and business are facing right now. "A lot of nurses, doctors and other professionals are doing what Jake Berry said. They are moving to Australia, New Zealand and other better paying countries. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate.
But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs?
A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ?
Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look
This thread was started because Jake Berry the tory chair, is suggesting people either cut consumption when they get their fuel bill or go out and get a higher paid job.
You have said getting paid more will fuel inflation...
Can you see it doesn't make any sense? Does he expect everyone working to simply get a higher paid job, demand more pay? Well that leads to strikes, and the government are not to keen on those..
Finally if everyone took his advice and it played out it would fall straight back into your summary of fuelling inflation.
The comments he made show a lack of empathy, with no grasp on the realities that people and business are facing right now.
A lot of nurses, doctors and other professionals are doing what Jake Berry said. They are moving to Australia, New Zealand and other better paying countries. "I hope they will realise before they up sticks and move that the wages are high because the cost of properties and the general cost of living is high in both New Zealand and Australia. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?"Not really that silly as it appears to have encouraged constructive comments and discussion. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
Then the rules of capitalism apply
If labour is scarce - then the cost rises. Ie. pay and conditions need to improve.
Starving the workforce into submission is not how capitalists operate. It is how Pharoahs operate.
But it's a catch 22 situation, increase wages increase costs?
A restaurant gives the staff a 10% pay rise and put the prices up 15% is that any advantage ?
Inflation is very high at the moment but increasing wages will only fuel the inflation and lead to higher borrowing costs (as is happening) it's all there in plain sight for those that look
This thread was started because Jake Berry the tory chair, is suggesting people either cut consumption when they get their fuel bill or go out and get a higher paid job.
You have said getting paid more will fuel inflation...
Can you see it doesn't make any sense? Does he expect everyone working to simply get a higher paid job, demand more pay? Well that leads to strikes, and the government are not to keen on those..
Finally if everyone took his advice and it played out it would fall straight back into your summary of fuelling inflation.
The comments he made show a lack of empathy, with no grasp on the realities that people and business are facing right now.
A lot of nurses, doctors and other professionals are doing what Jake Berry said. They are moving to Australia, New Zealand and other better paying countries.
I hope they will realise before they up sticks and move that the wages are high because the cost of properties and the general cost of living is high in both New Zealand and Australia.
"Thats true, but from what I have seen on the TV shows that show couples emigrating. In most cases, the wages are that much higher they more than offset any higher living costs. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
A lot of people will do that.
In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills.
I do agree but people can reskill and educate to move up the ladder.
It's unfortunate that many have grown accustomed to a life on benefits and are not trying to get a better job or even a first job.
Of course there are other very unfortunate people who can't work and they suffer because of the ones that abuse the system."They suffer because fuckwits believe this bollocks! And if I work a full time job, it should pay me enough to be able to live, regardless of what some consider, skill level  | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Not really that silly as it appears to have encouraged constructive comments and discussion.
"Why did you ignore the second part of my comment? | |||
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" Thats true, but from what I have seen on the TV shows that show couples emigrating. In most cases, the wages are that much higher they more than offset any higher living costs." Finally someone has switched the lights on so the rest of you can see in the dark | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
A lot of people will do that.
In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills.
I do agree but people can reskill and educate to move up the ladder.
It's unfortunate that many have grown accustomed to a life on benefits and are not trying to get a better job or even a first job.
Of course there are other very unfortunate people who can't work and they suffer because of the ones that abuse the system.
They suffer because fuckwits believe this bollocks! And if I work a full time job, it should pay me enough to be able to live, regardless of what some consider, skill level "It may not pay you to live how you'd like to but I'm sure it pays you to live. | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
A lot of people will do that.
In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills.
I do agree but people can reskill and educate to move up the ladder.
It's unfortunate that many have grown accustomed to a life on benefits and are not trying to get a better job or even a first job.
Of course there are other very unfortunate people who can't work and they suffer because of the ones that abuse the system.
They suffer because fuckwits believe this bollocks! And if I work a full time job, it should pay me enough to be able to live, regardless of what some consider, skill level
It may not pay you to live how you'd like to but I'm sure it pays you to live."This | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
A lot of people will do that.
In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills.
I do agree but people can reskill and educate to move up the ladder.
It's unfortunate that many have grown accustomed to a life on benefits and are not trying to get a better job or even a first job.
Of course there are other very unfortunate people who can't work and they suffer because of the ones that abuse the system.
They suffer because fuckwits believe this bollocks! And if I work a full time job, it should pay me enough to be able to live, regardless of what some consider, skill level
It may not pay you to live how you'd like to but I'm sure it pays you to live.
This "No, not "this". Why are so many jobs so badly paid that the government has to spend your tax money topping them up so that people can survive? | |||
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"Live within your means
Bit of a silly comment. What would you suggest if your means aren't enough to live on?
Devils advocate ...
Find alternative or additional means ...
Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels and many others are crying out for staff!
A lot of people will do that.
In a first world country (one of the richest in the world for now)in the 21st century, ordinary people need two jobs to survive. Not to live well, to pay basic bills.
I do agree but people can reskill and educate to move up the ladder.
It's unfortunate that many have grown accustomed to a life on benefits and are not trying to get a better job or even a first job.
Of course there are other very unfortunate people who can't work and they suffer because of the ones that abuse the system.
They suffer because fuckwits believe this bollocks! And if I work a full time job, it should pay me enough to be able to live, regardless of what some consider, skill level
It may not pay you to live how you'd like to but I'm sure it pays you to live.
This
No, not "this". Why are so many jobs so badly paid that the government has to spend your tax money topping them up so that people can survive? "This is the irony. Effectively, the state is subsidising company salaries and therefore profits. Yet the low paid are vilified for being lazy and not doing enough to get "proper" jobs and being a burden on society. Of course, workers should also not strike to demand higher wages either. Companies have to pay a wage that people can live on and we have to pay for goods and services that allow that to happen or companies make less profit. | |||
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"Companies have to pay a wage that people can live on and we have to pay for goods and services that allow that to happen or companies make less profit." Companies do pay a wage that people can live on. It's called The Minimum Wage, and they have to pay at least that by law. Of course, you could argue that the minimum wage is too low, but that's not the fault of the companies, that's down to government to decide. | |||
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"Companies have to pay a wage that people can live on and we have to pay for goods and services that allow that to happen or companies make less profit. Companies do pay a wage that people can live on. It's called The Minimum Wage, and they have to pay at least that by law. Of course, you could argue that the minimum wage is too low, but that's not the fault of the companies, that's down to government to decide." So why do wages have to be topped up by benefits? Working full time on minimum wage should be what the government think is necessary to live on therefore should not need to be topped up. Can't comment on whether this is the case as it has never applied to anyone we know. If it is not the case then the minimum wage needs raising. If a company can't pay wages that their staff can live on then they aren't a viable business. Benefits need to be a safety net of last resort to cover short term problems, which any of us may be unlucky enough to suffer, not a lifestyle choice. | |||
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"Companies have to pay a wage that people can live on and we have to pay for goods and services that allow that to happen or companies make less profit." "Companies do pay a wage that people can live on. It's called The Minimum Wage, and they have to pay at least that by law. Of course, you could argue that the minimum wage is too low, but that's not the fault of the companies, that's down to government to decide." "So why do wages have to be topped up by benefits?" Because we're not all the same. Some people are single and living in a house they inherited. They can live quite comfortably on the minimum wage. Others have 4 ex-partners and 12 children to support. There's no way they can provide for all their dependents on the minimum wage. So we have a benefits system to help top up those with higher outgoings. | |||
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"Others have 4 ex-partners and 12 children to support. There's no way they can provide for all their dependents on the minimum wage. So we have a benefits system to help top up those with higher outgoings." So why should the benefits system bail people out from poor life choices? Benefits should be the last resort for short periods of time, not a lifestyle choice. If you can afford 12 children then have them but if you can't, don't. | |||
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"Companies have to pay a wage that people can live on and we have to pay for goods and services that allow that to happen or companies make less profit. Companies do pay a wage that people can live on. It's called The Minimum Wage, and they have to pay at least that by law. Of course, you could argue that the minimum wage is too low, but that's not the fault of the companies, that's down to government to decide. So why do wages have to be topped up by benefits? Working full time on minimum wage should be what the government think is necessary to live on therefore should not need to be topped up. Can't comment on whether this is the case as it has never applied to anyone we know. If it is not the case then the minimum wage needs raising. If a company can't pay wages that their staff can live on then they aren't a viable business. Benefits need to be a safety net of last resort to cover short term problems, which any of us may be unlucky enough to suffer, not a lifestyle choice." Unfortunately, the tories like to use our benefits safety net to make sure they never have to ask their mates to pay anyone properly, so making sure they or their friends/relatives get decent payouts at the end of the year | |||
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"Others have 4 ex-partners and 12 children to support. There's no way they can provide for all their dependents on the minimum wage. So we have a benefits system to help top up those with higher outgoings." "So why should the benefits system bail people out from poor life choices?" They aren't all that easy to categorise. Some people have 2 very young children, and have just lost their partner to a road accident. It's not their fault that they can't get a full time job, but those children need to be supported. In the case of someone with 4 ex-partners and 12 children, I agree that's down to poor life choices, but it isn't the fault of the children. Do we deny the kids benefits because their parents made some foolish choices? | |||
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"Others have 4 ex-partners and 12 children to support. There's no way they can provide for all their dependents on the minimum wage. So we have a benefits system to help top up those with higher outgoings. So why should the benefits system bail people out from poor life choices? They aren't all that easy to categorise. Some people have 2 very young children, and have just lost their partner to a road accident. It's not their fault that they can't get a full time job, but those children need to be supported. In the case of someone with 4 ex-partners and 12 children, I agree that's down to poor life choices, but it isn't the fault of the children. Do we deny the kids benefits because their parents made some foolish choices?" Exactly. | |||
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"They aren't all that easy to categorise. Some people have 2 very young children, and have just lost their partner to a road accident. It's not their fault that they can't get a full time job, but those children need to be supported. In the case of someone with 4 ex-partners and 12 children, I agree that's down to poor life choices, but it isn't the fault of the children. Do we deny the kids benefits because their parents made some foolish choices?" First case is covered by the short term support for emergencies scenario. After a few years there is no reason not to go back to work. Second case, the ex partners should pay for their offspring, so no support. In all cases, benefits should only supply the bare minimum for existence. The best way is to give a ration book so that healthy food and other essentials can be obtained. Before people bleat it is demeaning, it is meant to be, to incentivise getting into paying work. | |||
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"They aren't all that easy to categorise. Some people have 2 very young children, and have just lost their partner to a road accident. It's not their fault that they can't get a full time job, but those children need to be supported. In the case of someone with 4 ex-partners and 12 children, I agree that's down to poor life choices, but it isn't the fault of the children. Do we deny the kids benefits because their parents made some foolish choices? First case is covered by the short term support for emergencies scenario. After a few years there is no reason not to go back to work. Second case, the ex partners should pay for their offspring, so no support. In all cases, benefits should only supply the bare minimum for existence. The best way is to give a ration book so that healthy food and other essentials can be obtained. Before people bleat it is demeaning, it is meant to be, to incentivise getting into paying work." It is meant to be demeaning? You do know demeaning means, causing someone to lose their dignity and the respect of others. I haven't read attitudes like this for a very long time. | |||
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