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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. " you cannot force people out of a country where they have lived most of their lives & were perhaps born because they do not hold your views on nationality | |||
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"Putin is getting more and more desperate as time goes by. Unfortunately there is line in every other country the small but noisy hardliners pushing for him to do more mostly cowards who would not have the balls to actually go and join the fight "Putin, is dangerously close to tipping European citizens into a place of discontent, high energy and food costs being the main catalyst. If he pushes to far, it could lead to many leaders in Europe facing a tough decision. Do they deal with the people or deal with the problem. Putin will know this and winter is quickly taking hold, he needs to act fast to deescalate with Ukraine, whilst taking the land as a win. His troops suffered in the cold at the start of the year and will do again, he doesn't need the West bearing down on him too. He needs an out. | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. " Well what could possibly be better than a vote??? You don't like democracy? Surely that's one of the only ways that you should transfer sovereignty. The issue isn't that it's a vote. The issue is whether it is a fair and open vote, which it appears clear that it won't be. In the abstract though, if not by vote, then how does sovereignty arise. Surely you can't agree that the current form of borders as a result of centuries of force, empire, coercion etc are the only way of defining borders? | |||
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"All flights out of Russia that don't require a visa, sold out within hours of the mobilisation being called. Maybe the Russian people are starting to see through this charade." Let’s hope so. I’m pretty sure they can see he’s a nasty cunt. | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. " Why not - it worked for him in Crimea? USSR occupied most of Eastern Europe for decades, protest leads to two options, be torchered or vanished. Whether the locals like it not, they don't get a choice. Putin makes his own rules. | |||
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"All flights out of Russia that don't require a visa, sold out within hours of the mobilisation being called. Maybe the Russian people are starting to see through this charade." Not sure they are, they are in the dark being fed shit, like the West wants to pillage, take Russia's soverienty as well as the West wants to nuke them. If they believe what they were told today, then they'll be on the streets demanding we are nuked first. | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia "I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA"Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be 
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA
Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there "Enlighten me, is it millions, thousands or a couple of hundred? | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA
Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there
Enlighten me, is it millions, thousands or a couple of hundred?"No find out yourself | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA
Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there
Enlighten me, is it millions, thousands or a couple of hundred?
No find out yourself "Why no flights in the opposite direction. Russians fleeing the nasty west to return home? Celebs flying out to meet Putin and put him straight - Becks & Victoria, Branson, Piers Morgan, Blair, Boris, the Pope, Trump, James Blunt - he can drive his tank mind you. Ringo, Yoko, King Charles, Holly & Phil. Tyson Fury? | |||
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"Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there" "Enlighten me, is it millions, thousands or a couple of hundred?" "No find out yourself" This sort of reply always astounds me. The only reason for posting in the politics forum is that you have an opinion, and you want others to hear it. Why would you then refuse to expand on your point when someone asks about it? | |||
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"Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there Enlighten me, is it millions, thousands or a couple of hundred? No find out yourself This sort of reply always astounds me. The only reason for posting in the politics forum is that you have an opinion, and you want others to hear it. Why would you then refuse to expand on your point when someone asks about it?" Because it’s an obvious bate from him | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA
Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there
Enlighten me, is it millions, thousands or a couple of hundred?
No find out yourself "You were the one stating there was a mass exodus, I don't see any evidence of this so asked you for more information is that against forum rules ? | |||
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"Increased traffic at the Russian road borders with Finland and Georgia. There's definitely a flight of young men but the numbers remain to be seen." Yes, that's what I read last night | |||
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"it appears a handful of deserters are attempting to bail. some borders have already been shut to them. the majority appear to be travelling to their training bases quite willingly and enthusiastically." Tell that to the IT worker who has been drafted even though he has no military experience at all but has been ordered to go he don’t want to go. Willingly is a stretch of the imagination. One bloke apparently answered his door as he was expecting a delivery only to be forced to sign up 
I wonder just how many mysterious accidents broken legs ect to get out of the draft will be happening.
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"Slightly off topic but Lavrov seems to have disappeared. Also Abramovich has said nothing since the early days and the suggestion he was poisoned. This special military operation that now needs a call up." Lavrov walked out of the big meeting so he did not have to listen to the rest of the council denounce his beloved Russia | |||
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"it appears a handful of deserters are attempting to bail. some borders have already been shut to them. the majority appear to be travelling to their training bases quite willingly and enthusiastically. Tell that to the IT worker who has been drafted even though he has no military experience at all but has been ordered to go he don’t want to go." he's in the minority of those crying about their draft. but if you insist i will, so long as you have thier contact details. | |||
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"it appears a handful of deserters are attempting to bail. some borders have already been shut to them. the majority appear to be travelling to their training bases quite willingly and enthusiastically. Tell that to the IT worker who has been drafted even though he has no military experience at all but has been ordered to go he don’t want to go. he's in the minority of those crying about their draft. but if you insist i will, so long as you have thier contact details. "Time will tell | |||
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"it appears a handful of deserters are attempting to bail. some borders have already been shut to them. the majority appear to be travelling to their training bases quite willingly and enthusiastically." I don't blame them this is not Russia's war this is Putin's war this is one man. | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA
Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there "Running like rats- Cowards | |||
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"Slightly off topic but Lavrov seems to have disappeared. Also has said nothing since the early days and the suggestion he was poisoned. This special military operation that now needs a call up." Abramovich Reportedly chartered a private plane to bring the British or back from Saudi Arabia after the prisoner exchange. I think a lot of influential Russians might be doing a lot behind the scenes so that we don't know about. They can't go public because otherwise they disappear or suddenly get sick but I do think something might be a foot at least I hope so. | |||
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"Lavrov was at the UN today spouting his BS lies as to NATO provocation and other lies to create a fog that Russia is merely defending itself from the brutal West. He walked out when the UK had its turn to speak." He walks out regularly. | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. you cannot force people out of a country where they have lived most of their lives & were perhaps born because they do not hold your views on nationality " No one is forcing them. They can make a free choice. If, for a silly example, a couple of square miles of a border property in Scotland was owned by English people they could not simply hold a vote and cede that area to England. Country borders do not work that way. | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. Why not - it worked for him in Crimea? USSR occupied most of Eastern Europe for decades, protest leads to two options, be torchered or vanished. Whether the locals like it not, they don't get a choice. Putin makes his own rules." Putin is using the very same reasoning Hitler had for invading Czechoslovakia - "I am protecting German speaking people". In modern times Sturgeon, in the absence of another legal vote, wants to use to a similar process to leave the UK. If she has her unofficial vote she is likely to declare UDI like Rhodesia did in 1965. Then the English part of the army will have to invade Scotland to take it back. It is not so nice when brought closer to home.  | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. Why not - it worked for him in Crimea? USSR occupied most of Eastern Europe for decades, protest leads to two options, be torchered or vanished. Whether the locals like it not, they don't get a choice. Putin makes his own rules. Putin is using the very same reasoning Hitler had for invading Czechoslovakia - "I am protecting German speaking people". In modern times Sturgeon, in the absence of another legal vote, wants to use to a similar process to leave the UK. If she has her unofficial vote she is likely to declare UDI like Rhodesia did in 1965. Then the English part of the army will have to invade Scotland to take it back. It is not so nice when brought closer to home. "There is some slight difference between asking people their opinion in a free poll with voluntary voting, allowing oversight by media and independent scrutineers, and turning up at peoples doors with machine guns instructing them exactly where to mark the paper. | |||
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"A lot of them were quite happy to go along with it as long as it was the low class conscripts being drafted but now it’s the middle classes they start to shit themselves and can’t wait to leave mother Russia
I wouldn't be so sure about that, normal Russians are just a patriotic towards Russia as yanks are to the USofA
Yea the ones who will not be sent in to fight will be
Check out the mass exodus of fighting age men who are booking flights to get the fuck out of there
Running like rats- Cowards
"Do you really believe that? | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. Why not - it worked for him in Crimea? USSR occupied most of Eastern Europe for decades, protest leads to two options, be torchered or vanished. Whether the locals like it not, they don't get a choice. Putin makes his own rules. Putin is using the very same reasoning Hitler had for invading Czechoslovakia - "I am protecting German speaking people". In modern times Sturgeon, in the absence of another legal vote, wants to use to a similar process to leave the UK. If she has her unofficial vote she is likely to declare UDI like Rhodesia did in 1965. Then the English part of the army will have to invade Scotland to take it back. It is not so nice when brought closer to home.
There is some slight difference between asking people their opinion in a free poll with voluntary voting, allowing oversight by media and independent scrutineers, and turning up at peoples doors with machine guns instructing them exactly where to mark the paper."I agree with you but, if the question is "Do you want a great NHS, lower Taxes, ethical government, fantastic education system, superb old age care, free prescriptions, climate friendly power, free water, and, by the way independence from that gang of posh boy charlatans who lurk in Westminister and laugh as the put us down?" Then it's not very specific or realistic. | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. Why not - it worked for him in Crimea? USSR occupied most of Eastern Europe for decades, protest leads to two options, be torchered or vanished. Whether the locals like it not, they don't get a choice. Putin makes his own rules. Putin is using the very same reasoning Hitler had for invading Czechoslovakia - "I am protecting German speaking people". In modern times Sturgeon, in the absence of another legal vote, wants to use to a similar process to leave the UK. If she has her unofficial vote she is likely to declare UDI like Rhodesia did in 1965. Then the English part of the army will have to invade Scotland to take it back. It is not so nice when brought closer to home.
There is some slight difference between asking people their opinion in a free poll with voluntary voting, allowing oversight by media and independent scrutineers, and turning up at peoples doors with machine guns instructing them exactly where to mark the paper.
I agree with you but, if the question is "Do you want a great NHS, lower Taxes, ethical government, fantastic education system, superb old age care, free prescriptions, climate friendly power, free water, and, by the way independence from that gang of posh boy charlatans who lurk in Westminister and laugh as the put us down?" Then it's not very specific or realistic. "Damn sight more specific and realistic than the brexit shitshow. | |||
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"Putin is being ridiculous here. You cannot transfer soverienty by simply having a vote; especially one that is not internationally recognised because it is faked. Putin is trying to justify holding those areas he currently holds for when he tries to agree a peace. Ukraine wants to kick Russia out and will never agree. If those living in the South East Ukraine want to be part of Russia they should simply go to Russia. It not that hard to find. Why not - it worked for him in Crimea? USSR occupied most of Eastern Europe for decades, protest leads to two options, be torchered or vanished. Whether the locals like it not, they don't get a choice. Putin makes his own rules. Putin is using the very same reasoning Hitler had for invading Czechoslovakia - "I am protecting German speaking people". In modern times Sturgeon, in the absence of another legal vote, wants to use to a similar process to leave the UK. If she has her unofficial vote she is likely to declare UDI like Rhodesia did in 1965. Then the English part of the army will have to invade Scotland to take it back. It is not so nice when brought closer to home.
There is some slight difference between asking people their opinion in a free poll with voluntary voting, allowing oversight by media and independent scrutineers, and turning up at peoples doors with machine guns instructing them exactly where to mark the paper.
I agree with you but, if the question is "Do you want a great NHS, lower Taxes, ethical government, fantastic education system, superb old age care, free prescriptions, climate friendly power, free water, and, by the way independence from that gang of posh boy charlatans who lurk in Westminister and laugh as the put us down?" Then it's not very specific or realistic.
Damn sight more specific and realistic than the brexit shitshow."Brexit! Wonderful idea. "Take back control!", "£350 million a week for the NHS!", AND "Lets go WTO!!!"
Not a word about the perceived benefits or disbenefits. Just Jingoistic slogans for the sound bite generation.
Do you ever wonder why the SNP bang on about Westminister treating the people of Scotland with contempt? Emotional claptrap. It isn't true but pulls at the emotional heart strings. | |||
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"Brexit! Wonderful idea. "Take back control!", "£350 million a week for the NHS!", AND "Lets go WTO!!!"
Not a word about the perceived benefits or disbenefits."Well, "take back control" and "£350 million a week" were both perceived benefits, and I remember lots of talk about the wonderful trade deals we were going to strike, and how we would free ourselves from the shackles of bureaucracy. I also remember lots of talk about how trade with Europe would stop, and that we were cutting ourselves off from the world, and that it would soon be impossible to travel. That seems like quite a lot of talk about benefits and disbenefits to me. | |||
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