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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway " I agree, and tbh, the Tories keep pinching labours ideas so it babes sense to keep quiet until election time | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway " I don’t see how a group of parties that (apparently) refuse to have an opinion on any of the above issues gives them any credibility at an election. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway " An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum." Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum." Labour are just a less shit Tory party. | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something." 1000% | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum." I agree it's an asset, but I can see the logic considering the environment with the media etc. All ideas can get torn to shred, or as mentioned, stolen. Labour seem to be screwed by the split between centre and left Lib Dems are taking the approach of just quietly picking up votes in core Tory areas. Noone listens to them anyway really | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. I agree it's an asset, but I can see the logic considering the environment with the media etc. All ideas can get torn to shred, or as mentioned, stolen. Labour seem to be screwed by the split between centre and left Lib Dems are taking the approach of just quietly picking up votes in core Tory areas. Noone listens to them anyway really " Labour don't offer any meaningful alternative in the centre. And will get destroyed by the media of they're on the left and offer new ideas and changes. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. I agree it's an asset, but I can see the logic considering the environment with the media etc. All ideas can get torn to shred, or as mentioned, stolen. Labour seem to be screwed by the split between centre and left Lib Dems are taking the approach of just quietly picking up votes in core Tory areas. Noone listens to them anyway really " An idea being stolen is not a bad thing, the opposite I would have thought. Imagine the government running with a stolen opposition idea. It would show most definitely who should be in charge. Governments / MP's should work for the good of the people not wrapping ideas up to protect intellectual properties. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. I agree it's an asset, but I can see the logic considering the environment with the media etc. All ideas can get torn to shred, or as mentioned, stolen. Labour seem to be screwed by the split between centre and left Lib Dems are taking the approach of just quietly picking up votes in core Tory areas. Noone listens to them anyway really An idea being stolen is not a bad thing, the opposite I would have thought. Imagine the government running with a stolen opposition idea. It would show most definitely who should be in charge. Governments / MP's should work for the good of the people not wrapping ideas up to protect intellectual properties. " It is a lot harder to steal ideas if people know that the ideas fit into a coherent policy approach - ie people know where you stand on things. If you don’t tell them then your ideas can be nicked very easily. | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something." I actually have respect for Corbyn for putting out a position and wish more would do that. At least you would know what you were going to get - the fact that I (and many others) didn’t want to get what he was giving was unfortunate. | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something. I actually have respect for Corbyn for putting out a position and wish more would do that. At least you would know what you were going to get - the fact that I (and many others) didn’t want to get what he was giving was unfortunate." There was a huge upsurge in people joining labour when Corbyn was appointed leader (probably also some people left). And not that I personally would celebrate more people joining labour. But he generated a lot of interest and did really well in his first election. It was only then that the media and the establishment got worried and smeared him into oblivion. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. I agree it's an asset, but I can see the logic considering the environment with the media etc. All ideas can get torn to shred, or as mentioned, stolen. Labour seem to be screwed by the split between centre and left Lib Dems are taking the approach of just quietly picking up votes in core Tory areas. Noone listens to them anyway really An idea being stolen is not a bad thing, the opposite I would have thought. Imagine the government running with a stolen opposition idea. It would show most definitely who should be in charge. Governments / MP's should work for the good of the people not wrapping ideas up to protect intellectual properties. It is a lot harder to steal ideas if people know that the ideas fit into a coherent policy approach - ie people know where you stand on things. If you don’t tell them then your ideas can be nicked very easily." Oh yes, that is so true, it really emphasises the point we have no opposition parties with a clear direction. | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it!" The opposition don't have to "be" anywhere. They just have to wait quietly whilst we listen to the new Prime Minister tell us that cutting tax to the wealthy is fair and applauding the former Prime Minister who was held in utter contempt by everyone except the people who voted in the Conservative party leadership election. When debates on policy actually took place in Parliament and in the news and on TV there was a purpose in opposition. However, with the current click bait nature of our media there is little purpose. The Labour party actually managed to produce a coated plan for reducing energy costs which was more than the party in Government with all of its resources managed. All that parties in opposition have ever done is wait for the one in power to screw up. What did Cameron do to distinguish himself in opposition? What did Blair do? What did Margret Thatcher do? Does anyone remember anything they said it did or proposed? | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it! The opposition don't have to "be" anywhere. They just have to wait quietly whilst we listen to the new Prime Minister tell us that cutting tax to the wealthy is fair and applauding the former Prime Minister who was held in utter contempt by everyone except the people who voted in the Conservative party leadership election. When debates on policy actually took place in Parliament and in the news and on TV there was a purpose in opposition. However, with the current click bait nature of our media there is little purpose. The Labour party actually managed to produce a coated plan for reducing energy costs which was more than the party in Government with all of its resources managed. All that parties in opposition have ever done is wait for the one in power to screw up. What did Cameron do to distinguish himself in opposition? What did Blair do? What did Margret Thatcher do? Does anyone remember anything they said it did or proposed?" Cameron was very explicit in "modernising" the Tories. Remember all the carbon inducing trips to the Arctic to "save" the polar bears? Blair finished off the job of moving Labour to the right started by Kinnock and Smith and killed off the unions for a generation. People knew what he was against. Thatcher came out of the winter of discontent. It was very clear what she was standing against. I think all three of them were at least visible and were actively setting themselves up in contrast to something else - Blair and Thatcher in particular. You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it! The opposition don't have to "be" anywhere. They just have to wait quietly whilst we listen to the new Prime Minister tell us that cutting tax to the wealthy is fair and applauding the former Prime Minister who was held in utter contempt by everyone except the people who voted in the Conservative party leadership election. When debates on policy actually took place in Parliament and in the news and on TV there was a purpose in opposition. However, with the current click bait nature of our media there is little purpose. The Labour party actually managed to produce a coated plan for reducing energy costs which was more than the party in Government with all of its resources managed. All that parties in opposition have ever done is wait for the one in power to screw up. What did Cameron do to distinguish himself in opposition? What did Blair do? What did Margret Thatcher do? Does anyone remember anything they said it did or proposed? Cameron was very explicit in "modernising" the Tories. Remember all the carbon inducing trips to the Arctic to "save" the polar bears? Blair finished off the job of moving Labour to the right started by Kinnock and Smith and killed off the unions for a generation. People knew what he was against. Thatcher came out of the winter of discontent. It was very clear what she was standing against. I think all three of them were at least visible and were actively setting themselves up in contrast to something else - Blair and Thatcher in particular. You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist." Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it!" With all that is and has been going on, no matter what party the decisions are pretty well made for them. The opposition is limited in ways it can promote alternative ideas. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing." Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it! With all that is and has been going on, no matter what party the decisions are pretty well made for them. The opposition is limited in ways it can promote alternative ideas. " If all the decisions have been made for them then that implies that they agree with them. If they don't agree then they have an alternative they can push. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power?" I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini?" If it gets people talking about him then yes. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. " You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini?" SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition." He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. " Why? He is a politician, not a celebrity, look at what happened the last time we had a populist ‘celebrity’ PM, he was a disaster . | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt." If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition." I am not a massive fan of Starmer but he challenges the government all the time | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen." His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him." Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative." Oh I agree he seems dull. But give me dull and competent any day over the toxic clown we have had in Johnson. And, again, it's not his fault if you don't listen to him. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative." Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,  | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side?" I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies , "All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do." You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do." Maybe you're suggesting Starmer should wear a bright orange suit? Or possibly wink a lot? Or jump up and down? You know what would happen if he changed his body language or presentation in a radical way? He'd get rubbished for being fake. And yes I'm consistent in attacking the tories on here. Because they have proved time and time again they hold this country and us all in contempt. I don't think much of Starmer, but he's a hell of a lot better than this bunch of Tories. Oh and you're wrong if you think I have a party. I don't. It's all about voting for the least worst alternative for me. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,
All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years"So... Starmer needs to say we'll all be millionaires next year. And every man will have a twelve inch cock. And every woman will have perfect tits. That's what you're saying? | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions." Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,
All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years
So... Starmer needs to say we'll all be millionaires next year. And every man will have a twelve inch cock. And every woman will have perfect tits. That's what you're saying?"How to miss the point by a country mile. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,
All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years
So... Starmer needs to say we'll all be millionaires next year. And every man will have a twelve inch cock. And every woman will have perfect tits. That's what you're saying?
How to miss the point by a country mile.
"Just literally responding to your last comment. | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it! The opposition don't have to "be" anywhere. They just have to wait quietly whilst we listen to the new Prime Minister tell us that cutting tax to the wealthy is fair and applauding the former Prime Minister who was held in utter contempt by everyone except the people who voted in the Conservative party leadership election. When debates on policy actually took place in Parliament and in the news and on TV there was a purpose in opposition. However, with the current click bait nature of our media there is little purpose. The Labour party actually managed to produce a coated plan for reducing energy costs which was more than the party in Government with all of its resources managed. All that parties in opposition have ever done is wait for the one in power to screw up. What did Cameron do to distinguish himself in opposition? What did Blair do? What did Margret Thatcher do? Does anyone remember anything they said it did or proposed? Cameron was very explicit in "modernising" the Tories. Remember all the carbon inducing trips to the Arctic to "save" the polar bears? Blair finished off the job of moving Labour to the right started by Kinnock and Smith and killed off the unions for a generation. People knew what he was against. Thatcher came out of the winter of discontent. It was very clear what she was standing against. I think all three of them were at least visible and were actively setting themselves up in contrast to something else - Blair and Thatcher in particular. You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist." Really? Was the general public excited by any of what you have written? Was this "cutting through"? No. They were all internal party politics. That's exactly what Starmer and Ed Davey have been doing after their predecessors. You said it exactly right about Thatcher: "It was very clear what she was standing against." That's exactly the point I was making. There was a fair bit of publicity about Labour's energy plan, but not from the very large part of the media that supports the Tory party. That is the biggest change. Even the language of the Telegraph is sensationalist and hysterical when addressing any non-Conservative policy of they mention them at all. There's no longer any pretence of consideration. You are demonstrating the lack of positive, or any, exposure that the opposition parties get. Independent, Guardian, Mirror, BBC Huffington Post hardly mainstream That's your lot. They are silenced everywhere else. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. " I forgot to add, charisma is not shallow or is it lies. It is a charm that can inspire. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. I forgot to add, charisma is not shallow or is it lies. It is a charm that can inspire. " Time to bring up Hitler, I fear. He was v charasmitic in a fucked up way. He got many people listening to his ranting + raving. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster? | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,
All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years
So... Starmer needs to say we'll all be millionaires next year. And every man will have a twelve inch cock. And every woman will have perfect tits. That's what you're saying?
How to miss the point by a country mile.
Just literally responding to your last comment. "In the most bizarre way possible. Promote Labour, go on, the floor is yours | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. " Exactly. Look who we got as our last Prime Minister. Why did we get him? Because of a strategic plan for the country and a sober appraisal of our strengths and weaknesses and clear communication of the compromises needed to move things forward? Presentation without content  | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,
All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years
So... Starmer needs to say we'll all be millionaires next year. And every man will have a twelve inch cock. And every woman will have perfect tits. That's what you're saying?
How to miss the point by a country mile.
Just literally responding to your last comment.
In the most bizarre way possible. Promote Labour, go on, the floor is yours"You're still operating under the false assumption I'm a Labour guy. I'm not. I have no party. I already told you that. I also already said it's about voting for the least worst alternative for me. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. I forgot to add, charisma is not shallow or is it lies. It is a charm that can inspire. Time to bring up Hitler, I fear. He was v charasmitic in a fucked up way. He got many people listening to his ranting + raving. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster?" Stop being silly, you only let yourself down. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? SKS is missing, it is his job to be challenging, to be the opposition. He challenges them all the time. Not his fault if you don't listen. His messages fall flat, he talks to the media in a monotone way, he has no charisma. It is his job to make himself heard and believed in.... He is falling short of a credible alternative. Maybe he should talk shite and tell lies ,
All politicians are hypocrites, some more than others, he needs to be saying what people want to hear or is party will be no further forward in 2 years
So... Starmer needs to say we'll all be millionaires next year. And every man will have a twelve inch cock. And every woman will have perfect tits. That's what you're saying?
How to miss the point by a country mile.
Just literally responding to your last comment.
In the most bizarre way possible. Promote Labour, go on, the floor is yours
You're still operating under the false assumption I'm a Labour guy. I'm not. I have no party. I already told you that. I also already said it's about voting for the least worst alternative for me."Promote the least worst | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. I forgot to add, charisma is not shallow or is it lies. It is a charm that can inspire. Time to bring up Hitler, I fear. He was v charasmitic in a fucked up way. He got many people listening to his ranting + raving. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster? Stop being silly, you only let yourself down. " I'm afraid you're the one who is being silly with your stance. I'm simply highlighting that. You didn't answer before, so here's the question again. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster? | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. I forgot to add, charisma is not shallow or is it lies. It is a charm that can inspire. Time to bring up Hitler, I fear. He was v charasmitic in a fucked up way. He got many people listening to his ranting + raving. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster? Stop being silly, you only let yourself down. I'm afraid you're the one who is being silly with your stance. I'm simply highlighting that. You didn't answer before, so here's the question again. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster?" I'm not talking to you again. You are throwing hitler into this for nothing more than shock. Childish tactics, the end. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. I forgot to add, charisma is not shallow or is it lies. It is a charm that can inspire. Time to bring up Hitler, I fear. He was v charasmitic in a fucked up way. He got many people listening to his ranting + raving. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster? Stop being silly, you only let yourself down. I'm afraid you're the one who is being silly with your stance. I'm simply highlighting that. You didn't answer before, so here's the question again. So are you saying you'd prefer somebody like Hitler to a less flamboyant leader who actually isn't a monster? I'm not talking to you again. You are throwing hitler into this for nothing more than shock. Childish tactics, the end." It was actually a v simple question. It says a lot for how ridiculous your stance is that you can't answer. | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. Exactly. Look who we got as our last Prime Minister. Why did we get him? Because of a strategic plan for the country and a sober appraisal of our strengths and weaknesses and clear communication of the compromises needed to move things forward? Presentation without content "Oh I agree, I am not saying it should be all one way or the other, SKS needs to find that balance. I feel he is not dynamic enough to claw away at the polls. Sharpen him up and who knows? | |||
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" You say the opposition have a costed plan but I bet no one knows about it. If people don't know about it then it doesn't exist. Um ... yes it still exists. Hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then claim they heard nothing. Politics is about visibility - certainly for an opposition party. It is 100% their fault if they are not cutting through the noise. If they can't cut through with the world going to sh*t then what chance do they have if they ever get to power? I repeat, hardly Starmer's fault if some people don't listen then pretend to be deaf. What would you have him do to get attention? Skydive wearing a mankini? If it gets people talking about him then yes. You know what would happen if he did that? The very same people who have been slamming Starmer for having no policies would then say he as engaging in a ridiculous stunt. If I was running a business that was struggling because of lack of sales and the marketing director told me that he had tried but it wasn't his fault because other people were better at marketing than him then I would probably sack him. Johnson's success was down to lying + being supported by certain right wing media. How do you suggest Starmer does better against that? Do you want him to lie more? Do you want him to become more right wing than Johnson to get the right wing rags on side? I would suggest he changes his media trainers and comms team as a starter for 10. His body language is dire, I tend to switch off quickly. That is how I see him and I will not be alone. You are consistent in your attacks on the tories, but can't promote SKS other than saying, it is not his fault people don't listen. I have said many times here, i will vote for my MP, the one I feel will serve my interests, I can flip and flop, you can't which puts you in a place of hurt when your party is below par. Sometimes it is better to challenge what you believe in to make it better, not simply make do. You are literally telling us that shallow "charismatic" lies is better than "boring" reality. It is clear why we are where we are as a country under those conditions. Do you believe that people are not swayed by a persons ability to present themselves, to appear credible? Appearance, confidence telling people what they want to hear, are not new things in any form of interaction. Exactly. Look who we got as our last Prime Minister. Why did we get him? Because of a strategic plan for the country and a sober appraisal of our strengths and weaknesses and clear communication of the compromises needed to move things forward? Presentation without content
Oh I agree, I am not saying it should be all one way or the other, SKS needs to find that balance. I feel he is not dynamic enough to claw away at the polls.
Sharpen him up and who knows?"Hmm what new Starmer presentation would make you happy? A cheeky catchphrase? For example, after a shitty zinger he could wink and shout: they don't like it up em. Or possibly Starmer could dress all in leather, complete with cap? Or maybe he could just make wanker gestures at PMQs whenever the PM is speaking? | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it!" That's Basque what I have been waiting for. I decided a while ago I will not vote conservative at the next GE. I don't particularly want to not vote so seeking an alternative. I think Labour have improved slightly in the last few months but is it enough. I understand the theory of not putting out their plans until near a GE but it's concerning that they don't feel confident in those plans to put them out now. To me the main opposition parties at least should be on it all the time not just in the run up to an election | |||
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"In the last two or three years we have been through a global pandemic, seen an assertive Russia, watched the unedifying spectacle of a Conservative party tearing itself to pieces and are now facing a huge energy crisis. Having seen all this, and as someone who would describe themselves in the middle ground politically, I still have no idea what any of the opposition parties would do differently. Where are they? At some point is someone going to stand up and offer an alternative that will resonate with the country rather than just timidly push pariochal side issues aimed at niches? We sure as hell need it! That's Basque what I have been waiting for. I decided a while ago I will not vote conservative at the next GE. I don't particularly want to not vote so seeking an alternative. I think Labour have improved slightly in the last few months but is it enough. I understand the theory of not putting out their plans until near a GE but it's concerning that they don't feel confident in those plans to put them out now. To me the main opposition parties at least should be on it all the time not just in the run up to an election" Exactly, that is what an opposition is there for. From my perspective, they are not showing any sign of confidence in themselves, the odd murmur from SKS about what Truss should do, or how Boris should step down is like elevator music, you can hear it but not really work it out, until it becomes just a faint noise in the background. Opposition parties must try harder, there are voters to win over... | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them." Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. | |||
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"Opposition? Both parties get approached by the same billiomaires and multi-national conglomerate lobbiests. It doesnt matter which party holds power, its the folks with lots of monwy who decide what happens." The only way labour can get elected is if they do a Blair and represent the interests of these people. Sure, they might be slightly less self serving and corrupt. But it's not good enough. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives." They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person." You're like a kid who has stuck their fingers in their ears and is loudly singing: la la la, not listening. And yet you complain you can't hear anything... | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person." Never voted labour, but in fairness. How are they supposed to get their policies under your nose without you looking? The vast majority of the media supports the Tories, and TV news isn't going to report on Labours manifesto. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. Never voted labour, but in fairness. How are they supposed to get their policies under your nose without you looking? The vast majority of the media supports the Tories, and TV news isn't going to report on Labours manifesto." I'm not a comms strategist, but I can say for certain Blair managed it, and others..What makes this party less able? | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something." Exactly! | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person." The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. | |||
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"after checking i can confirm that if the lazy and feckless posters could be bothered to drag themselves off their sofas away from their chips'n'dips to look for themselves, then they would clearly see that the various political parties other than the conservative and unionist party have detailed policies on their websites. unsurprisingly the con-uni's have vague nonsense written on theirs." You wanna be careful highlighting how ridiculous their stance is. I tried that above and 1 of them had a hissy fit before saying they wouldn't talk to me anymore. | |||
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"You wanna be careful highlighting how ridiculous their stance is. I tried that above and 1 of them had a hissy fit before saying they wouldn't talk to me anymore." i could live with that kind of promise ... the problem is that tory's are habitual liars  | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something. Exactly!" Destroyed by the media. Christ, you lefties really are deluded. He wasn't destroyed by the media, he was exposed by the media for exactly what he is - an IRA groupie, an Islamic terrorism groupie and a borderline outright anti-Semite. Let's not forget his latest stroke of genius - blaming the Ukraine war on NATO aggression and calling for the West to stop sending the country arms. Oh, and he made those remarks on a Lebanese pro-Hezbollah TV channel. That's in between his appearances on Iran's state broadcaster. He is a fucking disgrace as a politician and a human being. | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something. Exactly! Destroyed by the media. Christ, you lefties really are deluded. He wasn't destroyed by the media, he was exposed by the media for exactly what he is - an IRA groupie, an Islamic terrorism groupie and a borderline outright anti-Semite. Let's not forget his latest stroke of genius - blaming the Ukraine war on NATO aggression and calling for the West to stop sending the country arms. Oh, and he made those remarks on a Lebanese pro-Hezbollah TV channel. That's in between his appearances on Iran's state broadcaster. He is a fucking disgrace as a politician and a human being. " What's that meme? Sure, Jan. | |||
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"On the OP: that was basically Corbyn you were describing. And he was smeared + destroyed by the media. It's as if they were terrified he might actually change something. Exactly! Destroyed by the media. Christ, you lefties really are deluded. He wasn't destroyed by the media, he was exposed by the media for exactly what he is - an IRA groupie, an Islamic terrorism groupie and a borderline outright anti-Semite. Let's not forget his latest stroke of genius - blaming the Ukraine war on NATO aggression and calling for the West to stop sending the country arms. Oh, and he made those remarks on a Lebanese pro-Hezbollah TV channel. That's in between his appearances on Iran's state broadcaster. He is a fucking disgrace as a politician and a human being. " meanwhile the tory's continue to allow the russian free for all in the british economy.  | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think." They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control." Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??  | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ?? "Belief, I need to believe and so do you  | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??
Belief, I need to believe and so do you "Are you gullible? Either you think they all lie or they don’t?  | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??
Belief, I need to believe and so do you
Are you gullible? Either you think they all lie or they don’t? "If you are naive enough to think that politicians are not hypocrites, then it is you sir that is gullible | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??
Belief, I need to believe and so do you
Are you gullible? Either you think they all lie or they don’t?
If you are naive enough to think that politicians are not hypocrites, then it is you sir that is gullible "I don’t think they are all the same, I don’t think they all lie. I will ask you again, why do you care what the opposition has to say if they all lie? | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??
Belief, I need to believe and so do you
Are you gullible? Either you think they all lie or they don’t?
If you are naive enough to think that politicians are not hypocrites, then it is you sir that is gullible
I don’t think they are all the same, I don’t think they all lie. I will ask you again, why do you care what the opposition has to say if they all lie? "Hypocrites | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??
Belief, I need to believe and so do you
Are you gullible? Either you think they all lie or they don’t?
If you are naive enough to think that politicians are not hypocrites, then it is you sir that is gullible
I don’t think they are all the same, I don’t think they all lie. I will ask you again, why do you care what the opposition has to say if they all lie?
Hypocrites"You stated that they all lie? Anyway, why do you care what the opposition has to say if they are all hypocrites? | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. Why do you care what SKS says, ‘all politicians lie’ ??
Belief, I need to believe and so do you
Are you gullible? Either you think they all lie or they don’t?
If you are naive enough to think that politicians are not hypocrites, then it is you sir that is gullible
I don’t think they are all the same, I don’t think they all lie. I will ask you again, why do you care what the opposition has to say if they all lie?
Hypocrites
You stated that they all lie? Anyway, why do you care what the opposition has to say if they are all hypocrites? "If I said all lie, I may have over stepped the mark a tad, but definitely all hypocrites. 
The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that's also a hypocrite. (not my quote) Think about this..
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control." That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press." Notme doesn't seem to care how silly their stance is. They don't seem to care about reality. I pointed out how silly they were being above. Their terribly mature response was to say they would no longer talk to me. Notme seems to want Starmer to magically convince them even though they have their fingers stuck in their ears and are screaming that they're not listening. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press." You are repeating yourself, that irony would not be lost on the opposition either. you are providing lame excuses for lack of action, which is the wrong approach in my books. Push for a change or expect the same. Blame the Tories because they are in power on why an opposition party can't take power. How would a sport coach fair with this approach? The other team have the better players and all the money and we don't stand a chance and nobody is coming to watch us because we are not performing.. You are trying to justify a lacklustre performance by the opposition, a conservative government that was on its knees and still nothing.... | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press. You are repeating yourself, that irony would not be lost on the opposition either. you are providing lame excuses for lack of action, which is the wrong approach in my books. Push for a change or expect the same. Blame the Tories because they are in power on why an opposition party can't take power. How would a sport coach fair with this approach? The other team have the better players and all the money and we don't stand a chance and nobody is coming to watch us because we are not performing.. You are trying to justify a lacklustre performance by the opposition, a conservative government that was on its knees and still nothing.... " How "lame"? Again, what did any previous opposition party do to make themselves more electable than the current ones? What information did you actually receive that was any different to what you receive now? How would a coach approach it? Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top. The "money ball" concept happened once only in baseball. I understand what you are saying. In an even vaguely "open market" you can be clever. That is not the market of politics. You are shifting your position now though. I think that you are accepting that the situation now is not the same as before and it is becoming apparent that power has always resided in the incumbent. That is not surprising. They have the entire government machine and full attention on policy decisions which will be enacted. All an opposition has ever been able to do is to be ready to take the opportunity in an election campaign when they get some attention. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press. You are repeating yourself, that irony would not be lost on the opposition either. you are providing lame excuses for lack of action, which is the wrong approach in my books. Push for a change or expect the same. Blame the Tories because they are in power on why an opposition party can't take power. How would a sport coach fair with this approach? The other team have the better players and all the money and we don't stand a chance and nobody is coming to watch us because we are not performing.. You are trying to justify a lacklustre performance by the opposition, a conservative government that was on its knees and still nothing.... How "lame"? Again, what did any previous opposition party do to make themselves more electable than the current ones? What information did you actually receive that was any different to what you receive now? How would a coach approach it? Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top. The "money ball" concept happened once only in baseball. I understand what you are saying. In an even vaguely "open market" you can be clever. That is not the market of politics. You are shifting your position now though. I think that you are accepting that the situation now is not the same as before and it is becoming apparent that power has always resided in the incumbent. That is not surprising. They have the entire government machine and full attention on policy decisions which will be enacted. All an opposition has ever been able to do is to be ready to take the opportunity in an election campaign when they get some attention." This is my point, you said: How would a coach approach it? " Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top" The tories screwed up royally, god knows how many times, they are the dominant team. Why can't the opposition capitalise (I know) How have they not managed to shift the opinion more, not playing to the media or big business, is that wise? | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press. You are repeating yourself, that irony would not be lost on the opposition either. you are providing lame excuses for lack of action, which is the wrong approach in my books. Push for a change or expect the same. Blame the Tories because they are in power on why an opposition party can't take power. How would a sport coach fair with this approach? The other team have the better players and all the money and we don't stand a chance and nobody is coming to watch us because we are not performing.. You are trying to justify a lacklustre performance by the opposition, a conservative government that was on its knees and still nothing.... How "lame"? Again, what did any previous opposition party do to make themselves more electable than the current ones? What information did you actually receive that was any different to what you receive now? How would a coach approach it? Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top. The "money ball" concept happened once only in baseball. I understand what you are saying. In an even vaguely "open market" you can be clever. That is not the market of politics. You are shifting your position now though. I think that you are accepting that the situation now is not the same as before and it is becoming apparent that power has always resided in the incumbent. That is not surprising. They have the entire government machine and full attention on policy decisions which will be enacted. All an opposition has ever been able to do is to be ready to take the opportunity in an election campaign when they get some attention. This is my point, you said: How would a coach approach it? " Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top" The tories screwed up royally, god knows how many times, they are the dominant team. Why can't the opposition capitalise (I know) How have they not managed to shift the opinion more, not playing to the media or big business, is that wise? " The last election was only about Brexit. The vote was much closer than the seats. That's just how the FTP system works. What is there to "capitalise" on after that? At every single point since then the public have given the Conservative party an electoral pasting. Locally and nationally. We have two more years to wait until there is a general election. What's the Olympics Games training cycle? They train to peak for the Olympics. They cannot "play to the media" if a large part of it just will not report them in even a neutral light. The Tory hysteria about BBC "leftwing" bias has only grown. It doesn't really appear to exist, bit the Government drives the governance and holds the purse strings. What "play" do they make? Do they constantly say dumb and controversial and provocative things like BoJo and Trump to get constant attention? Who says that opposition parties are not playing to business? However, let's be clear. If we want to pay for public services, tax has to come from the public or from companies. We have had nothing but cuts for public services for over a decade. Who should pay for it? This Government has been "cakeist" for years. Otherwise known as lies. Simple answers to complicated questions. We can have everything. If you try to make a more complex argument you don't get a tick in the box. There was a time when both sides debated the compromises that need to be made and the voter picked. If one side says there is no compromise needed then the voter can only change their mind five years later when (amazingly) it turns out to be a lie. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person." That is a somewhat self-denigrating comment tbh. It’s like you are admitting that you would rather be brainwashed by propaganda than think for yourself? Are you sure about that? | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. That is a somewhat self-denigrating comment tbh. It’s like you are admitting that you would rather be brainwashed by propaganda than think for yourself? Are you sure about that?" I don't know how you came to that conclusion, totally confused me... don't know what else to say. | |||
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"Genuine question, is having a good opposition actually worth anything until an election? I get the impression labour are just waiting and not saying much so they can't ruin their own chances before they get started. I'd expect a lot more when an election is announced I hope so anyway An opposition party that can challenge the government on policies, that can promote new ways of thinking is an asset to the country. Labour are devoid of the challenge, they are a weak party and are not offering the country an alternative, something people can believe in that would gather momentum. Totally agree but it is not just Labour - it is all of them. Sorry but you and the poster you are replying to are wrong. Labour have policies that support ordinary people and which do not involve lying, fantasising and corrupting the country. It’s too easy to forget how the NHS massively improved under Tony Blair and how homelessness was virtually eradicated. I was watching one of his performances at the despatch boxes remind the Conservatives and the nation that people had not forgotten about cuts to the Police and NHS prior to his Government winning the election. Recently, Boris Johnson has been forced to adopt policies that Labour adopted in minutes, but only after weeks or arguing and recriminations between Conservative MP’s The Lib Dems are on a different boat too not least because of their unashamed support of a United Kingdom as a full EU Member. Then the SNP, they cannot be more opposite to the Conservatives. They might have policies but if they want me and millions of others to consider them as a potential government, they need to get their policies singing in my ears and shoved under my nose. This is my opinion as a voter who is undecided. I think people will look at this differently if they are a one party person. The point is that the media has changed. It is nigh on impossible for opposition parties to receive any airtime except on the BBC unless they deliberately say something hugely controversial and infantile which immediately lowers the discourse. You are comparing an environment today completely different to one ten years ago and even then the opposition rarely figured. You have somewhat of a false memory, I think. They either adapt and turn things around to the here and now, or they stay in the wilderness. They are the masters of their own destiny, which has been proven to be short of what the country want, proven by their failure to take control. That is completely the point which you do not want to see. They are not the masters of their own destiny. The Tory party have retained power through: Massive media bias Massive, non transparent funding Lying Stealing everyone else's ideas as their own Lying some more I guess the other parties could do at least some of that too. Should they? Beyond an incomplete Brexit deal, what has the Conservative party delivered during its time in power? Beyond pointing that out; again and again, what does an opposition party do? I note that you cannot really explain how any opposition party plan was communicated to you previously other than through the press. You are repeating yourself, that irony would not be lost on the opposition either. you are providing lame excuses for lack of action, which is the wrong approach in my books. Push for a change or expect the same. Blame the Tories because they are in power on why an opposition party can't take power. How would a sport coach fair with this approach? The other team have the better players and all the money and we don't stand a chance and nobody is coming to watch us because we are not performing.. You are trying to justify a lacklustre performance by the opposition, a conservative government that was on its knees and still nothing.... How "lame"? Again, what did any previous opposition party do to make themselves more electable than the current ones? What information did you actually receive that was any different to what you receive now? How would a coach approach it? Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top. The "money ball" concept happened once only in baseball. I understand what you are saying. In an even vaguely "open market" you can be clever. That is not the market of politics. You are shifting your position now though. I think that you are accepting that the situation now is not the same as before and it is becoming apparent that power has always resided in the incumbent. That is not surprising. They have the entire government machine and full attention on policy decisions which will be enacted. All an opposition has ever been able to do is to be ready to take the opportunity in an election campaign when they get some attention. This is my point, you said: How would a coach approach it? " Look at the Premier League. How much does it change at the top? Only when a dominant team screws up because otherwise all of the money sits at the top" The tories screwed up royally, god knows how many times, they are the dominant team. Why can't the opposition capitalise (I know) How have they not managed to shift the opinion more, not playing to the media or big business, is that wise? The last election was only about Brexit. The vote was much closer than the seats. That's just how the FTP system works. What is there to "capitalise" on after that? At every single point since then the public have given the Conservative party an electoral pasting. Locally and nationally. We have two more years to wait until there is a general election. What's the Olympics Games training cycle? They train to peak for the Olympics. They cannot "play to the media" if a large part of it just will not report them in even a neutral light. The Tory hysteria about BBC "leftwing" bias has only grown. It doesn't really appear to exist, bit the Government drives the governance and holds the purse strings. What "play" do they make? Do they constantly say dumb and controversial and provocative things like BoJo and Trump to get constant attention? Who says that opposition parties are not playing to business? However, let's be clear. If we want to pay for public services, tax has to come from the public or from companies. We have had nothing but cuts for public services for over a decade. Who should pay for it? This Government has been "cakeist" for years. Otherwise known as lies. Simple answers to complicated questions. We can have everything. If you try to make a more complex argument you don't get a tick in the box. There was a time when both sides debated the compromises that need to be made and the voter picked. If one side says there is no compromise needed then the voter can only change their mind five years later when (amazingly) it turns out to be a lie." you have your view and I have mine, neither of us will change our minds and nor should we. Which brings me to, nothing left to say | |||
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"Some polls have Labour upto 15 points in front of the Conservatives. Let's see where that is in 2 years time!" Back down to where the establishment want them. There is no chance Labour will be allowed to win, unless they become just another Tory party with no meaningful changes. | |||
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"Tories balls be coming out of their guts, thinking it’s some new dawn for change, but as most serotonin induced euphoric experiences they are short lived, then the harsh reality sets in an they face the cold hard truth, that everything is still broken and it will never be fixed." Nice story, do they live happily ever after? | |||
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