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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339746 and https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339976 For the history behind the thread. For anyone who wants to read what was actually said instead of what people will claim was said." This is what most would refer to as stirring it up... If you were to answer the OP, do you think as a nation we are one of the most tolerant countries on earth? | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339746 and https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339976 For the history behind the thread. For anyone who wants to read what was actually said instead of what people will claim was said. This is what most would refer to as stirring it up... If you were to answer the OP, do you think as a nation we are one of the most tolerant countries on earth?" How is it "stirring it up" to provide the links the preceding conversation? I am not going to answer the OP. | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339746 and https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339976 For the history behind the thread. For anyone who wants to read what was actually said instead of what people will claim was said. This is what most would refer to as stirring it up... If you were to answer the OP, do you think as a nation we are one of the most tolerant countries on earth? How is it "stirring it up" to provide the links the preceding conversation? I am not going to answer the OP." Why not, I think his post is clear or do you feel like it is a trap? | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339746 and https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339976 For the history behind the thread. For anyone who wants to read what was actually said instead of what people will claim was said. This is what most would refer to as stirring it up... If you were to answer the OP, do you think as a nation we are one of the most tolerant countries on earth? How is it "stirring it up" to provide the links the preceding conversation? I am not going to answer the OP. Why not, I think his post is clear or do you feel like it is a trap?" I don't need a reason. | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339746 and https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1339976 For the history behind the thread. For anyone who wants to read what was actually said instead of what people will claim was said. This is what most would refer to as stirring it up... If you were to answer the OP, do you think as a nation we are one of the most tolerant countries on earth? How is it "stirring it up" to provide the links the preceding conversation? I am not going to answer the OP. Why not, I think his post is clear or do you feel like it is a trap? I don't need a reason." Sometimes helps an an online forum, but I get your point. | |||
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"OP where do you stand on the political spectrum? Just curious" Good question. Right now? ‘Confused’ I’ve never known such an amateurish bunch. Could just be me getting on a bit though. Confused so I’ll nick a quote from Mick Jagger- ‘My background is Labour, my heart and mind is Liberal, my money is Conservative’ I am warming to Angela Rayner though. Is that bad? Why do you ask BTW? | |||
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"OP where do you stand on the political spectrum? Just curious Good question. Right now? ‘Confused’ I’ve never known such an amateurish bunch. Could just be me getting on a bit though. Confused so I’ll nick a quote from Mick Jagger- ‘My background is Labour, my heart and mind is Liberal, my money is Conservative’ I am warming to Angela Rayner though. Is that bad? Why do you ask BTW? " Just curiosity The two groups you singled out suggests a whole list of options. Were you a Corbyn supporter then? | |||
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"I will ignore the frivolous comments. There were some great points made so thanks for that. We do like to be ‘self critical’ here in the UK. I appreciate I am not best placed as in a white guy in a predominantly white society but I think we have a great deal to be proud of as one of the most tolerant nations on earth. We are not inherently hostile to people based on colour so the idea that we are racist as we don’t like people from beyond France, Spain, Germany, Italy is nonsense. " In my opinion I think your about right to suggest the UK is generally a tolerant nation. Not sure which nation comes out best but I think the UK would be up there. Of course intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing. I often think that people should be able to openly discuss any topic without abuse of any kind. To me it is counter productive and actually makes things worse. Yes I think people's opinions can be challenged and other points of view put in a calm collective way but without abuse. If you don't agree with someone then simply say you don't agree and put your opinion forward | |||
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"OP where do you stand on the political spectrum? Just curious Good question. Right now? ‘Confused’ I’ve never known such an amateurish bunch. Could just be me getting on a bit though. Confused so I’ll nick a quote from Mick Jagger- ‘My background is Labour, my heart and mind is Liberal, my money is Conservative’ I am warming to Angela Rayner though. Is that bad? Why do you ask BTW? Just curiosity The two groups you singled out suggests a whole list of options. Were you a Corbyn supporter then?" No, something about him I just didn’t like. | |||
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"I will ignore the frivolous comments. There were some great points made so thanks for that. We do like to be ‘self critical’ here in the UK. I appreciate I am not best placed as in a white guy in a predominantly white society but I think we have a great deal to be proud of as one of the most tolerant nations on earth. We are not inherently hostile to people based on colour so the idea that we are racist as we don’t like people from beyond France, Spain, Germany, Italy is nonsense. In my opinion I think your about right to suggest the UK is generally a tolerant nation. Not sure which nation comes out best but I think the UK would be up there. Of course intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing. I often think that people should be able to openly discuss any topic without abuse of any kind. To me it is counter productive and actually makes things worse. Yes I think people's opinions can be challenged and other points of view put in a calm collective way but without abuse. If you don't agree with someone then simply say you don't agree and put your opinion forward"  | |||
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"I will ignore the frivolous comments. There were some great points made so thanks for that. We do like to be ‘self critical’ here in the UK. I appreciate I am not best placed as in a white guy in a predominantly white society but I think we have a great deal to be proud of as one of the most tolerant nations on earth. We are not inherently hostile to people based on colour so the idea that we are racist as we don’t like people from beyond France, Spain, Germany, Italy is nonsense. In my opinion I think your about right to suggest the UK is generally a tolerant nation. Not sure which nation comes out best but I think the UK would be up there. Of course intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing. I often think that people should be able to openly discuss any topic without abuse of any kind. To me it is counter productive and actually makes things worse. Yes I think people's opinions can be challenged and other points of view put in a calm collective way but without abuse. If you don't agree with someone then simply say you don't agree and put your opinion forward" This may shock a few of the regulars but I still think we have a long way to go and we can all do better. Despite my age and the current shit show that is our government, I am hopeful for the future. Better together. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. " Nobody can say why X voted the way they did, but it suits some to dump people into a bucket and label it. It does appear to be the same people who make it a life goal to battle for peoples rights, that do this, which is strange. I also voted remain, not that matters now. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. " why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. Nobody can say why X voted the way they did, but it suits some to dump people into a bucket and label it. It does appear to be the same people who make it a life goal to battle for peoples rights, that do this, which is strange. I also voted remain, not that matters now. " #notallbrexiters The idea you can lump everyone onto one bucket Or even a handful of buckets, is odd to me. Some may have voted leave because foreigners. Others may have voted leave for reasons that were based on not understanding. It's a complex issue. As I said previously when brecit threads move onto non EU foreigners so frequently it raises questions to some. However going back to "not one bucket", this is where "not the brefit I voted for" kicks in. There was (still is) a range of brexit. Yet some leavers have decided what all leavers voted for. That's the oddest part of all this to me. Democracy, until a point. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. " They probably don't if they are White. If they are not conversations about racism come very young. At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media." And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? " That was a lot of text to not actually say anything at all, let alone disprove anything I said. I count at least 3 separate logical fallacies in that wall of text, Fellow forumites if you are inclined please feel free to let me know which ones you spot! | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? " tl;Dr everyone gets along. Except black people are racist to Asians, the Asians are racist to the black people, and everyone hates the gypsies. And everyone voted to keep out people from backward countries. And this all started from me trying to find out why a kiddy (race unknown) may think her mum voted brexit because of the Polish. Love brexit threads. Love the forum. | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? That was a lot of text to not actually say anything at all, let alone disprove anything I said. I count at least 3 separate logical fallacies in that wall of text, Fellow forumites if you are inclined please feel free to let me know which ones you spot!" Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? I suspect you have experiences, or are you simply politicised? I will never know. | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? tl;Dr everyone gets along. Except black people are racist to Asians, the Asians are racist to the black people, and everyone hates the gypsies. And everyone voted to keep out people from backward countries. And this all started from me trying to find out why a kiddy (race unknown) may think her mum voted brexit because of the Polish. Love brexit threads. Love the forum. " Everything seems to have become far more tribal, belong or not belong. Rising to the top of the stack, is a lack of tolerance towards anyone who does not have 100% of the tribes beliefs. God help those on the fringes of a tribe, they are most at risk. | |||
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"Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? I suspect you have experiences, or are you simply politicised? I will never know. " You are right, you don't know, neither do they, they are making assumptions, A LOT of them. I also don't feel I have to expose elements of my life and friendships in order to argue against a faceless person who has made nothing but blatantly baseless claims about my experience. | |||
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"Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? I suspect you have experiences, or are you simply politicised? I will never know. You are right, you don't know, neither do they, they are making assumptions, A LOT of them. I also don't feel I have to expose elements of my life and friendships in order to argue against a faceless person who has made nothing but blatantly baseless claims about my experience." It is likely to not change anything if you did, so no point trying. | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? tl;Dr everyone gets along. Except black people are racist to Asians, the Asians are racist to the black people, and everyone hates the gypsies. And everyone voted to keep out people from backward countries. And this all started from me trying to find out why a kiddy (race unknown) may think her mum voted brexit because of the Polish. Love brexit threads. Love the forum. Everything seems to have become far more tribal, belong or not belong. Rising to the top of the stack, is a lack of tolerance towards anyone who does not have 100% of the tribes beliefs. God help those on the fringes of a tribe, they are most at risk. " plus it keeps us focussing on the wrong things. | |||
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"At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media. And there, in that one sentence, lies the whole problem with the "anti-racist" white Left. Your only experience of multicultural Britain is via Youtube, Facebook postings, and what you read in the Guardian. You have almost NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER of the real situation. Does it ever occur to you that the people posting Youtube videos and Facebook comments about rampant uncontrolled racism in Britain are perhaps a little biased? Does their choice of subject matter not suggest that to you? (and that goes for both sides, both the Blactivist/Far Left wedge and the slack-jawed Right) You live in Eastbourne, is that right? Not exactly the frontline of multiracial Britain, is it? I haven't been there for years, but a quick look at Eastbourne .gov website gives the general picture: "Eastbourne's population change since 2001/02 has mainly been driven by net migration. Internal migration (the exchange of people between Eastbourne and other parts of the UK) has had the most significant impact on population growth" AND "International migration has had a less significant impact upon Eastbourne's population growth" So, you've been lucky enough to avoid the cultural enrichment "enjoyed" in recent years by other less fortunate areas, and most of your in-migrants (as they put it) are other English people moving to Eastbourne, probably to retire. Yet you still feel qualified to lecture others on race, as do others twats on here from their equally snow-white boltholes. If you ventured out into the real world, you'd find that, far from your fantasies of neo-Nazi rallies and public lynchings, people in multicultural areas rub along pretty well, as _eroy1000 points out above. His view that intolerance in the UK is not a white only thing is correct too. In fact, the racist abuse that I most commonly witness tends to come from black people on Asian, or vice versa, and from pig ignorant Eastern European Roma gypsies ("oh, look that's racism", I'm sure you'll cry. If you've never had the pleasure of living among them, as we in East London do - thanks, EU - then you can't comment.) Indeed, the decision to allow mass open door East European immigration, esp from the poorer, more backward countries, was a factor in the decision to vote Brexit by a lot of people I know, white, black and Asian. Unless you've experienced it, the negative effect it has on neighbourhoods like ours, you really can't know. But hey, as long as the liberal middle-class can enjoy cheaper plumbers and builders and cleaners, what does that matter? tl;Dr everyone gets along. Except black people are racist to Asians, the Asians are racist to the black people, and everyone hates the gypsies. And everyone voted to keep out people from backward countries. And this all started from me trying to find out why a kiddy (race unknown) may think her mum voted brexit because of the Polish. Love brexit threads. Love the forum. Everything seems to have become far more tribal, belong or not belong. Rising to the top of the stack, is a lack of tolerance towards anyone who does not have 100% of the tribes beliefs. God help those on the fringes of a tribe, they are most at risk. plus it keeps us focussing on the wrong things. " I don't sit in a tribe, unless there is a tribe that allows me to cherry pick, what I believe in. It could be left, it could be right and it could be anything that I want it to be, and that tends to rub up those entrenched in a tribe, they can't work it out. I don't think that stops me focusing on the right things. But I do agree those that are fully paid up members of a tribe must find it hard to focus on anything other than the tribe, that must be plain dull and tiring. | |||
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"And this all started from me trying to find out why a kiddy (race unknown) may think her mum voted brexit because of the Polish. Love brexit threads. Love the forum. Everything seems to have become far more tribal, belong or not belong. Rising to the top of the stack, is a lack of tolerance towards anyone who does not have 100% of the tribes beliefs. God help those on the fringes of a tribe, they are most at risk. " The problem we have here is that in most threads we could easily start an entire fresh argument over who are the ones who are not being tolerant. I subscribe to the theory of the Paradox of Tolerance. I don't care if someone has a belief and that belief in no way harms or negatively affects someone. I do tend to have a problem with "beliefs" that are knowingly or unknowingly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and/or the victimisation of others (especially already marginalised communities) Like everyone though there is a varying level of subjectivity to all of it. | |||
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"And this all started from me trying to find out why a kiddy (race unknown) may think her mum voted brexit because of the Polish. Love brexit threads. Love the forum. Everything seems to have become far more tribal, belong or not belong. Rising to the top of the stack, is a lack of tolerance towards anyone who does not have 100% of the tribes beliefs. God help those on the fringes of a tribe, they are most at risk. The problem we have here is that in most threads we could easily start an entire fresh argument over who are the ones who are not being tolerant. I subscribe to the theory of the Paradox of Tolerance. I don't care if someone has a belief and that belief in no way harms or negatively affects someone. I do tend to have a problem with "beliefs" that are knowingly or unknowingly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and/or the victimisation of others (especially already marginalised communities) Like everyone though there is a varying level of subjectivity to all of it." I think that there are 2 different tolerances at play, the ones you mention and the ones I mention. Both can interlace and become one, if the tribe beliefs are greater than the individuals belief. I do see that a lot, people who identify as part of a group / tribe pushing the group message 100% of the time, is it possible to align 100% of the time? I think it isn't but to not be 100% aligned could mean losing a place in the group, which for some is far more important than being an individual. | |||
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"Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? " Of course they are. The responses prove it. Pratting on about logical fallacies and the Paradox of Tolerance is just a verbal smokescreen to distract from the fact that the poster has little or no experience whatsoever of the realities of modern multicultural Britain. Instead, the poster prefers to have their prejudices confirmed by equally prejudiced posts on YouTube and in the left-leaning media. This isn't uncommon. Most white liberals have the same separation from reality. They need to get out more, away from the online echo chamber. Perhaps the poster could take a day trip to the East End and see what life is really like in multiracial Britain? They could bring Hovis2022 with them. If SW stands for South West, then there's another Whitelander that could do with seeing the real world. "I do tend to have a problem with "beliefs" that are knowingly or unknowingly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and/or the victimisation of others (especially already marginalised communities) " Hmm. In that case, if you do visit, then you'd best not come in a frock. The old white EastEnders - the few of us that are left - might raise the odd eyebrow, or even make an un-PC joke. But the, erm, "marginalized communities", as you put it, tend not to be so tolerant. They'd tear you apart. But then, you probably know that already, don't you? | |||
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"Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? Of course they are. The responses prove it. Pratting on about logical fallacies and the Paradox of Tolerance is just a verbal smokescreen to distract from the fact that the poster has little or no experience whatsoever of the realities of modern multicultural Britain. Instead, the poster prefers to have their prejudices confirmed by equally prejudiced posts on YouTube and in the left-leaning media. This isn't uncommon. Most white liberals have the same separation from reality. They need to get out more, away from the online echo chamber. Perhaps the poster could take a day trip to the East End and see what life is really like in multiracial Britain? They could bring Hovis2022 with them. If SW stands for South West, then there's another Whitelander that could do with seeing the real world. I do tend to have a problem with "beliefs" that are knowingly or unknowingly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and/or the victimisation of others (especially already marginalised communities) Hmm. In that case, if you do visit, then you'd best not come in a frock. The old white EastEnders - the few of us that are left - might raise the odd eyebrow, or even make an un-PC joke. But the, erm, "marginalized communities", as you put it, tend not to be so tolerant. They'd tear you apart. But then, you probably know that already, don't you? " I will regret asking this but what is a whitelander ? Also, you have been on here at least 10 years ? | |||
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"Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? Of course they are. The responses prove it. Pratting on about logical fallacies and the Paradox of Tolerance is just a verbal smokescreen to distract from the fact that the poster has little or no experience whatsoever of the realities of modern multicultural Britain. Instead, the poster prefers to have their prejudices confirmed by equally prejudiced posts on YouTube and in the left-leaning media. This isn't uncommon. Most white liberals have the same separation from reality. They need to get out more, away from the online echo chamber. Perhaps the poster could take a day trip to the East End and see what life is really like in multiracial Britain? They could bring Hovis2022 with them. If SW stands for South West, then there's another Whitelander that could do with seeing the real world. I do tend to have a problem with "beliefs" that are knowingly or unknowingly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and/or the victimisation of others (especially already marginalised communities) Hmm. In that case, if you do visit, then you'd best not come in a frock. The old white EastEnders - the few of us that are left - might raise the odd eyebrow, or even make an un-PC joke. But the, erm, "marginalized communities", as you put it, tend not to be so tolerant. They'd tear you apart. But then, you probably know that already, don't you? " Does it matter what I say? You seem to have made up your mind. | |||
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"I will regret asking this but what is a whitelander ? Also, you have been on here at least 10 years ? " A Whitelander is someone who lives in a part of the country where the demographic is overwhelmingly white British, and has very little experience of modern multicultural Britain. How long have I been on here? About 2013, I think, though I long gave up meeting ppl and camming etc. I still come on here occasionally to swap messages with people I knew back in the day, and to read and sometimes reply to the occasional forum post, mostly on culture/books etc, and of course on politics. | |||
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"Inherently hostile is an odd phrase. I think people are angry with their lot and perceive that the government(s) are not acting in their interest. I think that people ascribe part of that to immigration. I think this may be what is meant by "macroeconomics". I have no idea tho. I suspect it means I believe I can't earn as much because of immigration. I believe some people voted leave because it was the only way they felt their voice would be heard. I believe (like many voters on both sides) they didn't have all the facts or knowledge to know if their vote was going to help their aim. But some used their anger and frustration to vote leave anyway, bwacaue it served their agenda. They didn't give a fuck about the man in the street and have since gone very quiet. I believe there while the UK population is generally tolerant, there are pockets of intolerance. And it's a bit of a scale. I suspect some will admit they are intolerant. Others won't, but will be judged as such by those who are more tolerant. Finally, I think how you go about discussing these topics and the language you use influences the views others have on you. Emotive language suggests you are leading with emotions on a subject. Even if you are trying to present facts. "Mohammed is the most popular child's name in the UK. What do you think that will mean to the UK going forward" reads differently in motive to "Mohammed is the most popular child's name in the UK. Is that a worry?"" I have never posted a topic or used language that I wouldn’t use in direct conversation with any race / colour. Some people on here clearly are uncomfortable with the topics, they think they are off limits , so hunt in a pack, shooting the messenger of you like. They seize on a word or two out of context and make wild assumptions. When that fails and they can’t put forward a counter point, they refer to type and shout “racist “, but they don’t really know why. Odd lot really. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. " The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. They probably don't if they are White. If they are not conversations about racism come very young. At least according to hundreds of BIPOC/BAME creators I have watched on various social media." Are you really saying white people don’t have discussions on race with their children? | |||
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"Are these valid points, if Eastbourne and your experience is as he says? Of course they are. The responses prove it. Pratting on about logical fallacies and the Paradox of Tolerance is just a verbal smokescreen to distract from the fact that the poster has little or no experience whatsoever of the realities of modern multicultural Britain. Instead, the poster prefers to have their prejudices confirmed by equally prejudiced posts on YouTube and in the left-leaning media. This isn't uncommon. Most white liberals have the same separation from reality. They need to get out more, away from the online echo chamber. Perhaps the poster could take a day trip to the East End and see what life is really like in multiracial Britain? They could bring Hovis2022 with them. If SW stands for South West, then there's another Whitelander that could do with seeing the real world. I do tend to have a problem with "beliefs" that are knowingly or unknowingly rooted in bigotry, intolerance and/or the victimisation of others (especially already marginalised communities) Hmm. In that case, if you do visit, then you'd best not come in a frock. The old white EastEnders - the few of us that are left - might raise the odd eyebrow, or even make an un-PC joke. But the, erm, "marginalized communities", as you put it, tend not to be so tolerant. They'd tear you apart. But then, you probably know that already, don't you? Does it matter what I say? You seem to have made up your mind." Annoying isn’t it. When people have ‘made up their minds’ and not open to debate. You prefer not to say as you have nothing to say. Your normal cry of ‘racist’ won’t wash. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. " I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism." I believe this is not his opinion, it is a situation he has witnessed and he his relaying that to the forum. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. " I agree , we’re the poles she had this bad experience with white? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism." I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I agree , we’re the poles she had this bad experience with white? " I’ve never met one that wasn’t. Odd question, why do you ask? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. " Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I agree , we’re the poles she had this bad experience with white? I’ve never met one that wasn’t. Odd question, why do you ask? " It is a simple question,anyway, did she vote for Brexit to get rid of these specific polish people or to stop all polish people from freely living here? You must know, you did ‘date’ her | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? " But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I agree , we’re the poles she had this bad experience with white? I’ve never met one that wasn’t. Odd question, why do you ask? It is a simple question,anyway, did she vote for Brexit to get rid of these specific polish people or to stop all polish people from freely living here? You must know, you did ‘date’ her " It’s a pointless question unless you had a point in asking. I suspect we will never know. She voted leave as she developed a hatred for her neighbours who happened to be Polish. As I’ve explained in detail, right or wrong, I would say wrong, she voted on how she felt at that time. From a position of comfort and dare I say ‘privilege’ who are you or I to judge? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. " I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. " It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I agree , we’re the poles she had this bad experience with white? I’ve never met one that wasn’t. Odd question, why do you ask? It is a simple question,anyway, did she vote for Brexit to get rid of these specific polish people or to stop all polish people from freely living here? You must know, you did ‘date’ her It’s a pointless question unless you had a point in asking. I suspect we will never know. She voted leave as she developed a hatred for her neighbours who happened to be Polish. As I’ve explained in detail, right or wrong, I would say wrong, she voted on how she felt at that time. From a position of comfort and dare I say ‘privilege’ who are you or I to judge? " If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it." If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support." Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I agree , we’re the poles she had this bad experience with white? I’ve never met one that wasn’t. Odd question, why do you ask? It is a simple question,anyway, did she vote for Brexit to get rid of these specific polish people or to stop all polish people from freely living here? You must know, you did ‘date’ her It’s a pointless question unless you had a point in asking. I suspect we will never know. She voted leave as she developed a hatred for her neighbours who happened to be Polish. As I’ve explained in detail, right or wrong, I would say wrong, she voted on how she felt at that time. From a position of comfort and dare I say ‘privilege’ who are you or I to judge? If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? " No, we have covered that. Have you considered she may have been terrified, frustrated, angry, let down? We were all misinformed by the way. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst?" Not still in touch, both moved on. Give up on the race angle. What if she was black, would you accuse her of being racist? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support." I don't. And I'm not surprised that those who voted as a "fuck you" are still so wedded to leaving. Does she still care about brexit now her fuck you has been heard ? (Does she feel heard?) | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? " What do you think? Perhaps she went straight to the KKK? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? " butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. I don't. And I'm not surprised that those who voted as a "fuck you" are still so wedded to leaving. Does she still care about brexit now her fuck you has been heard ? (Does she feel heard?)" Sadly no longer in touch. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst? Not still in touch, both moved on. Give up on the race angle. What if she was black, would you accuse her of being racist? " Sorry seb but you did just reveal a level of ignorance when it comes to racism in that last post. If she was black and voted to leave the EU on the basis that she didn’t like Polish people then of course that is racist! Do you think only white people can be racist? Re: Your earlier post about her being terrified etc. She has my total sympathy as already said. Anti-social neighbours are a blight on our communities and society. They should be dealt with forcefully to give confidence to the people being impacted that anti-social behaviour will not be tolerated. But again, was their anti-social behaviour because they were Polish? Or was it because they were just not nice people? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. I don't. And I'm not surprised that those who voted as a "fuck you" are still so wedded to leaving. Does she still care about brexit now her fuck you has been heard ? (Does she feel heard?)" We debate this general issue in the Tap room. Once I’ve had my fun with any Spurs supporters the topic turns to Brexit. Always gets heated so still huge division. Seems to me the ‘leavers’ are digging their heels in. Despite the horror that unfolds, masked (no pun) of course by Covid and now Ukraine. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? " Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst? Not still in touch, both moved on. Give up on the race angle. What if she was black, would you accuse her of being racist? Sorry seb but you did just reveal a level of ignorance when it comes to racism in that last post. If she was black and voted to leave the EU on the basis that she didn’t like Polish people then of course that is racist! Do you think only white people can be racist? Re: Your earlier post about her being terrified etc. She has my total sympathy as already said. Anti-social neighbours are a blight on our communities and society. They should be dealt with forcefully to give confidence to the people being impacted that anti-social behaviour will not be tolerated. But again, was their anti-social behaviour because they were Polish? Or was it because they were just not nice people?" But she didn’t vote leave due to a dislike of Polish people. We have established and she knows not all Polish people are bad. That would be daft not racist. She voted leave because the nasty people next door happen to be Polish. She is not stupid, she is not racist. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst? Not still in touch, both moved on. Give up on the race angle. What if she was black, would you accuse her of being racist? Sorry seb but you did just reveal a level of ignorance when it comes to racism in that last post. If she was black and voted to leave the EU on the basis that she didn’t like Polish people then of course that is racist! Do you think only white people can be racist? Re: Your earlier post about her being terrified etc. She has my total sympathy as already said. Anti-social neighbours are a blight on our communities and society. They should be dealt with forcefully to give confidence to the people being impacted that anti-social behaviour will not be tolerated. But again, was their anti-social behaviour because they were Polish? Or was it because they were just not nice people? But she didn’t vote leave due to a dislike of Polish people. We have established and she knows not all Polish people are bad. That would be daft not racist. She voted leave because the nasty people next door happen to be Polish. She is not stupid, she is not racist. " Sorry that makes zero sense. You are trying to use semantics but it doesn’t work. It is a nonsensical argument. She knows not all Polish people are bad = good! She voted to leave because nasty people next door “happen to be Polish” = errr what? So the Polish and immigrant point was part of her issue. Voting leave was to rid herself of these people and get them out of the country presumably? As I asked before, what if the nasty people had been Scottish? What then? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist?" I believe a person has the right to vote how they wish. The information given really did not get into she is racist and voted leave, so calling her stupid was over the top. A lot of the time the position here is far from debate, it is how can I force my rigid views into every situation. I'm not pointing any fingers, purely an observation. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst? Not still in touch, both moved on. Give up on the race angle. What if she was black, would you accuse her of being racist? Sorry seb but you did just reveal a level of ignorance when it comes to racism in that last post. If she was black and voted to leave the EU on the basis that she didn’t like Polish people then of course that is racist! Do you think only white people can be racist? Re: Your earlier post about her being terrified etc. She has my total sympathy as already said. Anti-social neighbours are a blight on our communities and society. They should be dealt with forcefully to give confidence to the people being impacted that anti-social behaviour will not be tolerated. But again, was their anti-social behaviour because they were Polish? Or was it because they were just not nice people? But she didn’t vote leave due to a dislike of Polish people. We have established and she knows not all Polish people are bad. That would be daft not racist. She voted leave because the nasty people next door happen to be Polish. She is not stupid, she is not racist. Sorry that makes zero sense. You are trying to use semantics but it doesn’t work. It is a nonsensical argument. She knows not all Polish people are bad = good! She voted to leave because nasty people next door “happen to be Polish” = errr what? So the Polish and immigrant point was part of her issue. Voting leave was to rid herself of these people and get them out of the country presumably? As I asked before, what if the nasty people had been Scottish? What then?" Let it go, blimey! Why so fixated on racism? Scottish? They weren’t! What if they were Martians? Walk a mile in her shoes. If there had been no referendum she wouldn’t have voted at all. If Blair hadn’t decided to ‘stick it up the tories in the shires’ , it wouldn’t have happened in the first place and we would still be in the EU. She may even ended up with some lovely Scottish neighbours! Or not? Can I say again for the billionth time - she is not stupid, she is not racist. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist?" We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? I believe a person has the right to vote how they wish. The information given really did not get into she is racist and voted leave, so calling her stupid was over the top. A lot of the time the position here is far from debate, it is how can I force my rigid views into every situation. I'm not pointing any fingers, purely an observation." I am not going to call this lady stupid but see my post to seb immediately above this one from you. Her reasoning was completely flawed. The issue she was concerned about (we are told) was not caused by the nationality or race of the neighbours but by their anti-social behaviour. So what did she want to achieve by voting Leave? | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. I can sympathise with that lady (bad neighbour experiences are very stressful) BUT did she think the violent aggressive nature of that family was BECAUSE they were Polish? Or the inaction of the Council was BECAUSE they were Polish? Plenty of scummy British people who are violent and anti-social and Councils/neighbours equally impotent at tackling it (especially without ramifications). Is that BECAUSE they are British? Or is it because they are scummy and anti-social? There are good and bad people in every nationality/race. Basing your opinion on a minority and then holding to a generalised view is ultimately taking you down the route of racism. I thought I had explained that. Of course she knows that not all Polish people are the same and of course she knows we have enough anti social Brits. She was not basing an opinion, she was probably shaking as she marked her card and made her point. I don’t mean to be rude but I suspect you are commenting from a very comfortable, dare I say ‘privileged’ position? I know it’s just one example and Fabtastic will wade in with ‘any more examples’ but try for a minute to imagine her anquish. There is a chance that when you have a large migrant workforce you are going to get a higher percentage of less savoury elements if I can say that? It’s generalising which we don’t like but so is saying ‘Polish are hard workers, much better ( cheaper) than lazy Brits’, which seems to be alright. Subject for another post perhaps? But why did she feel the need to protest vote because of her experience with one unsavoury family who happened to be Polish? What if they had been Scottish? Would she have supported Scottish independence from UK? The issue was these neighbours were not nice people. Were they not nice because they were Polish? Or were they just not nice? What if the Polish family next door had been lovely, kind, helpful people? You cannot judge a whole nationality or race on the behaviour of one family or a minority of people. Did she know any other Polish people? Were all of them violent and anti-social? I said this on the other thread, basing your opinion on someone because of their physical attributes is discriminatory at best and racist at worst. It is their behaviour and actions that you should judge them on. For example saying: “I don’t like John because he is black and a criminal” is overtly racist. “I don’t like John because he is a criminal” is fine. “I don’t like John the black guy who’s a criminal” has implied racism intended or otherwise. I think we all know and accept this. I also thought we had already covered it. If you have covered then apologies, I am not going to read two whole threads (of mostly mud slinging). So if you are still in touch with this lady, have you explained why her protest vote was floored at best and racist at worst? Not still in touch, both moved on. Give up on the race angle. What if she was black, would you accuse her of being racist? Sorry seb but you did just reveal a level of ignorance when it comes to racism in that last post. If she was black and voted to leave the EU on the basis that she didn’t like Polish people then of course that is racist! Do you think only white people can be racist? Re: Your earlier post about her being terrified etc. She has my total sympathy as already said. Anti-social neighbours are a blight on our communities and society. They should be dealt with forcefully to give confidence to the people being impacted that anti-social behaviour will not be tolerated. But again, was their anti-social behaviour because they were Polish? Or was it because they were just not nice people? But she didn’t vote leave due to a dislike of Polish people. We have established and she knows not all Polish people are bad. That would be daft not racist. She voted leave because the nasty people next door happen to be Polish. She is not stupid, she is not racist. Sorry that makes zero sense. You are trying to use semantics but it doesn’t work. It is a nonsensical argument. She knows not all Polish people are bad = good! She voted to leave because nasty people next door “happen to be Polish” = errr what? So the Polish and immigrant point was part of her issue. Voting leave was to rid herself of these people and get them out of the country presumably? As I asked before, what if the nasty people had been Scottish? What then? Let it go, blimey! Why so fixated on racism? Scottish? They weren’t! What if they were Martians? Walk a mile in her shoes. If there had been no referendum she wouldn’t have voted at all. If Blair hadn’t decided to ‘stick it up the tories in the shires’ , it wouldn’t have happened in the first place and we would still be in the EU. She may even ended up with some lovely Scottish neighbours! Or not? Can I say again for the billionth time - she is not stupid, she is not racist." Your story. Your friend. You raised it. If you can’t stand the heated debate get out of the kitchen. What did she want as a result of voting Leave? What was her desired outcome in relation to these neighbours “who happen to be Polish”. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want." So people have a right to be racist? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?" people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? I believe a person has the right to vote how they wish. The information given really did not get into she is racist and voted leave, so calling her stupid was over the top. A lot of the time the position here is far from debate, it is how can I force my rigid views into every situation. I'm not pointing any fingers, purely an observation. I am not going to call this lady stupid but see my post to seb immediately above this one from you. Her reasoning was completely flawed. The issue she was concerned about (we are told) was not caused by the nationality or race of the neighbours but by their anti-social behaviour. So what did she want to achieve by voting Leave?" She did what us Brits are quite good at every now and then - just sticking two fingers up. I didn’t agree with her but I understood and accept that in the same circumstances I may have done the same. I guess I am more open minded and sympathetic than most on here. Going off on a tandem - what I find harder to grasp is people I know that run successful businesses, importing & exporting that also voted leave. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? What do you think? Perhaps she went straight to the KKK? " Why would she go to the KKK? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? I believe a person has the right to vote how they wish. The information given really did not get into she is racist and voted leave, so calling her stupid was over the top. A lot of the time the position here is far from debate, it is how can I force my rigid views into every situation. I'm not pointing any fingers, purely an observation. I am not going to call this lady stupid but see my post to seb immediately above this one from you. Her reasoning was completely flawed. We all know it was flawed. Crikey! Move on The issue she was concerned about (we are told) was not caused by the nationality or race of the neighbours but by their anti-social behaviour. So what did she want to achieve by voting Leave?" | |||
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"To counterbalance this ‘story ‘ my friend has polish neighbours who are great people which persuaded him to vote remain "Excellent news. Just shows the impact of personal experience. And if we needed telling as we are smart people, these can be positive or negative. What colour are these Polish people? If they exist of course. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life" Not according to some white liberals. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? What do you think? Perhaps she went straight to the KKK? Why would she go to the KKK? " They have a history of helping thick racists. | |||
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"To counterbalance this ‘story ‘ my friend has polish neighbours who are great people which persuaded him to vote remain
Excellent news. Just shows the impact of personal experience. And if we needed telling as we are smart people, these can be positive or negative. What colour are these Polish people? If they exist of course."They are a white . I have spoken to them several times, they are such nice people but unfortunately had trouble with their previous neighbours who were English  | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? What do you think? Perhaps she went straight to the KKK? Why would she go to the KKK? They have a history of helping thick racists. " Ah, is your ‘ friend ‘ a thick racist then? | |||
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"To counterbalance this ‘story ‘ my friend has polish neighbours who are great people which persuaded him to vote remain
Excellent news. Just shows the impact of personal experience. And if we needed telling as we are smart people, these can be positive or negative. What colour are these Polish people? If they exist of course.
They are a white . I have spoken to them several times, they are such nice people but unfortunately had trouble with their previous neighbours who were English "That’s northerners for you. Wouldn’t happen down south. Next you will tell me the awful English neighbours were from down south. | |||
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"To counterbalance this ‘story ‘ my friend has polish neighbours who are great people which persuaded him to vote remain
Excellent news. Just shows the impact of personal experience. And if we needed telling as we are smart people, these can be positive or negative. What colour are these Polish people? If they exist of course.
They are a white . I have spoken to them several times, they are such nice people but unfortunately had trouble with their previous neighbours who were English
That’s northerners for you. Wouldn’t happen down south. Next you will tell me the awful English neighbours were from down south."My friend lives in London | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? What do you think? Perhaps she went straight to the KKK? Why would she go to the KKK? They have a history of helping thick racists. Ah, is your ‘ friend ‘ a thick racist then? " Of course not. We have established that. Keep up. | |||
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"I don’t mean to harp back to the previous post but the comment about the reason people voted due to immigration was based on ignorance or racism is just awful. Nice story that suits the narrative or remainers of which I’m one, but it’s not right. why did the little kid think mummy voted for racist reasons? And how old was the kid? I'm not a parent. But it's not a conversation I'd ever imagine a mummy and kid having. The kid doesn’t exist. It was a story to emphasise a point. The mum does exist, one of the sweetest, hard working , loving people that I’ve ever met. We dated for a while. She was very proud of her lovely home, a council house in Bedfordshire, she lived happily there with her daughter who is autistic for a number of years. A Polish family moved in next door and made their life hell. The noise and the level of violence between the family and the aggressive way they responded to others was off the scale. 24/7 they no longer felt secure in their own home. Nobody would help her. Not the council, not the police. So, when that fucking referendum came along , rightly or wrongly she had an opportunity to make a mark. She is not racist, she is not thick. Nothing of the sort actually, she voted purely based on her experience. Now, if asked why she voted leave she will say something like ‘ to protect our sovereignty’ whatever that means? As she is polite and never likes to cause offence. She doesn’t hate Poles and she knows they are not all like her neighbours. She probably didn’t realise the real implications but how many of us did? Especially as it was a bag of lies from a serial liar who assured us, all will be well, they need us more than we need them, I have an oven ready deal. Hope that explains it? I repeat, she is not racist and did not vote for racist reasons. She voted based on personal experience. Before we call people ‘thick racists’ try seeing their side. Many were abandoned by their political party for decades. Thank you for explaining. That's a lot more helpful than the made up story! I agree that many people voted based on their own personal experience of the world. We all did to some extent. And I accept that in this case she wasnt racist. But this kinda shows why an advisory referendum shouldn't be taken as an order rather than direction. By the way you describe it, she didn't really know the complexity of what shew was voting for, and her vote was not going to change her situation. Did she vote out of racism? No. Did she vote out of ignorance. Possibly. Did she vote out of frustration and a whole host of other emotion. It appears so. But the idea that the UK has made such a big decision because people didn't like their neighbours amazes me. It amazes me too. Never underestimate personal experience and a lack of support. Lack of support? Did she report these people to the council or police? What do you think? Perhaps she went straight to the KKK? Why would she go to the KKK? They have a history of helping thick racists. Ah, is your ‘ friend ‘ a thick racist then? Of course not. We have established that. Keep up." Then why did she go to the KKK? | |||
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"To counterbalance this ‘story ‘ my friend has polish neighbours who are great people which persuaded him to vote remain
Excellent news. Just shows the impact of personal experience. And if we needed telling as we are smart people, these can be positive or negative. What colour are these Polish people? If they exist of course.
They are a white . I have spoken to them several times, they are such nice people but unfortunately had trouble with their previous neighbours who were English
That’s northerners for you. Wouldn’t happen down south. Next you will tell me the awful English neighbours were from down south.
My friend lives in London "Of course. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals." Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! | |||
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"To counterbalance this ‘story ‘ my friend has polish neighbours who are great people which persuaded him to vote remain
Excellent news. Just shows the impact of personal experience. And if we needed telling as we are smart people, these can be positive or negative. What colour are these Polish people? If they exist of course.
They are a white . I have spoken to them several times, they are such nice people but unfortunately had trouble with their previous neighbours who were English
That’s northerners for you. Wouldn’t happen down south. Next you will tell me the awful English neighbours were from down south.
My friend lives in London
Of course."Yep, anyway, this Polish family are great people, it was such a shame that they were terrorised by their former neighbours, my friend was going to vote leave until he met them | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life" Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals." 1) what is your obsession with the term "white liberals" which you have also used to describe yourself. 2) A person has the right to be A racist, they do not have the right to be racist. There is a difference, and one of them breaks equality laws. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life" Peadophiles ? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? I believe a person has the right to vote how they wish. The information given really did not get into she is racist and voted leave, so calling her stupid was over the top. A lot of the time the position here is far from debate, it is how can I force my rigid views into every situation. I'm not pointing any fingers, purely an observation. I am not going to call this lady stupid but see my post to seb immediately above this one from you. Her reasoning was completely flawed. The issue she was concerned about (we are told) was not caused by the nationality or race of the neighbours but by their anti-social behaviour. So what did she want to achieve by voting Leave?" Taking the story at face value, she voted leave because of her neighbours. That is her right. Voting for anything is a double edged sword, it gives choice, but you have no control of the choice. Whatever her reasons she could and did put X wherever she wanted. I don't think the Brexit vote is a good example of how or why people voted, it was propelled by lies. The only thing I have taken out of the Brexit vote is, important decisions at a national level should not be decided by referendum. Mad, but after the way the political players openly lied and caused a split so damaging to this country, I can't see a use for referendums. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! " Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others." I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? " Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. " Then surely it is not a right? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Then surely it is not a right?" What do you think? | |||
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"If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Then surely it is not a right? What do you think? " I did say above but it must have gotten missed. You have a right to be A racist. (think what you like). You do not have a right to BE racist, the latter violates the EHRC and is against the law. (You can't act on those thoughts with impunity). A right is something you can do without the government impeding your ability to do it. So you cannot by logic have the right to break a law. Or am I missing something? | |||
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"If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Then surely it is not a right? What do you think? I did say above but it must have gotten missed. You have a right to be A racist. (think what you like). You do not have a right to BE racist, the latter violates the EHRC and is against the law. (You can't act on those thoughts with impunity). A right is something you can do without the government impeding your ability to do it. So you cannot by logic have the right to break a law. Or am I missing something?" Not a thing, I agree with all of that. | |||
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"If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Then surely it is not a right? What do you think? I did say above but it must have gotten missed. You have a right to be A racist. (think what you like). You do not have a right to BE racist, the latter violates the EHRC and is against the law. (You can't act on those thoughts with impunity). A right is something you can do without the government impeding your ability to do it. So you cannot by logic have the right to break a law. Or am I missing something?" correct | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? " I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? " She must be a bit stupid then  | |||
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"If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Then surely it is not a right? What do you think? I did say above but it must have gotten missed. You have a right to be A racist. (think what you like). You do not have a right to BE racist, the latter violates the EHRC and is against the law. (You can't act on those thoughts with impunity). A right is something you can do without the government impeding your ability to do it. So you cannot by logic have the right to break a law. Or am I missing something?" Again, stating the obvious. We all know racism is bad. As a good society we do our best to educate and modify, with the use of the law of course. Are you saying you want to be the thought police? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then "She’s nothing of the sort. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort. "Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. " Thanks but I’d rather the person I was replying to responded as it was their claim and it should be qualified  | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Thanks but I’d rather the person I was replying to responded as it was their claim and it should be qualified "Open forum you may rather have a person respond, but not guaranteed, I'm afraid. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation "So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?"A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others." Again - stating the bleeding obvious. Racism is bad and nobody should be racist. There is a difference between you wanting to burgle my home and actually doing it. There is a difference between someone disliking other races/ cultures and doing something about it. You want to control peoples thoughts? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid "how? | |||
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"If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Then surely it is not a right? What do you think? I did say above but it must have gotten missed. You have a right to be A racist. (think what you like). You do not have a right to BE racist, the latter violates the EHRC and is against the law. (You can't act on those thoughts with impunity). A right is something you can do without the government impeding your ability to do it. So you cannot by logic have the right to break a law. Or am I missing something? Again, stating the obvious. We all know racism is bad. As a good society we do our best to educate and modify, with the use of the law of course. Are you saying you want to be the thought police? " Someone didn't read what I said obviously. Where did I say anything even remotely in the vicinity of policing thought? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how? "Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. 1) what is your obsession with the term "white liberals" which you have also used to describe yourself. 2) A person has the right to be A racist, they do not have the right to be racist. There is a difference, and one of them breaks equality laws." I agree. | |||
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"The word "be" needs to be defined Am I "being" a racist if I have racist thoughts but don't act on them. Or so I need to do something ti be a racist? You are able to think whatever you want. You can't do whatever you want. " Spot on. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince "Perhaps you would like to discuss it with her face to face? Friendly advice - I wouldn’t if I were you. Why are you trying to deliberately wind me up? We still haven’t established why you asked the bizarre question as to the colour of the Polish neighbours. Got a bit sidetracked in trying to discredit an ex of mine for some reason did we? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince "Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you... | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Thanks but I’d rather the person I was replying to responded as it was their claim and it should be qualified
Open forum you may rather have a person respond, but not guaranteed, I'm afraid."Yep but I know YOU know (from the posts on these forums I have seen over the months) but the statement, as written, by the person I was replying to was not clear. Words matter. How you use them matters. It is why legal documents are so convoluted to avoid misinterpretation. So my question was for them so I could understand where THEY are coming from in making the statement in the manner that they did | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you..."She has the right to vote how she wants, I have the right to interpret her actions, I am sure the OP will agree? If the only reason she voted to leave was because it made her ‘feel good’ because of her polish neighbours then she is confused, ignorant or thick | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. I'm not sure it was said it was right to be racist. If someone is racist by choice and go onto be racist they will be dealt with by the laws of the UK, rightly so. Thanks but I’d rather the person I was replying to responded as it was their claim and it should be qualified
Open forum you may rather have a person respond, but not guaranteed, I'm afraid.
Yep but I know YOU know (from the posts on these forums I have seen over the months) but the statement, as written, by the person I was replying to was not clear.
Words matter. How you use them matters. It is why legal documents are so convoluted to avoid misinterpretation.
So my question was for them so I could understand where THEY are coming from in making the statement in the manner that they did " | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
He is in a nasty frame of mind today. On the sauce perhaps or depressed at Man U losing to Brighton? "Man City fan | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
He is in a nasty frame of mind today. On the sauce perhaps or depressed at Man U losing to Brighton?
Man City fan "Bugger! | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Great. Can you give me your address and leave the keys under the mat. I want to be a burglar! Racism is abhorrent. You do not have a right to act in a way that is harmful to others. Again - stating the bleeding obvious. Racism is bad and nobody should be racist. There is a difference between you wanting to burgle my home and actually doing it. There is a difference between someone disliking other races/ cultures and doing something about it. You want to control peoples thoughts? " Stop being daft. This is what was written... “people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life” There is no mention of just thinking about it and not acting on it in that sentence. As I said above, words and how you use them matter. So I challenged the sentence as written. | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
She has the right to vote how she wants, I have the right to interpret her actions, I am sure the OP will agree? If the only reason she voted to leave was because it made her ‘feel good’ because of her polish neighbours then she is confused, ignorant or thick "Wrong again. And if I may add that’s a very narrow minded, some would say ‘bigoted’ view. A view from an ivory tower perhaps? | |||
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"She has the right to vote how she wants, I have the right to interpret her actions, I am sure the OP will agree? If the only reason she voted to leave was because it made her ‘feel good’ because of her polish neighbours then she is confused, ignorant or thick Wrong again. And if I may add that’s a very narrow minded, some would say ‘bigoted’ view. A view from an ivory tower perhaps? " He asked you if he had the right to interpret actions for himself, not if you agreed with the interpretation... | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
She has the right to vote how she wants, I have the right to interpret her actions, I am sure the OP will agree? If the only reason she voted to leave was because it made her ‘feel good’ because of her polish neighbours then she is confused, ignorant or thick
Wrong again. And if I may add that’s a very narrow minded, some would say ‘bigoted’ view. A view from an ivory tower perhaps? "I thought we were all entitled to ‘do what we want’ ? | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
He is in a nasty frame of mind today. On the sauce perhaps or depressed at Man U losing to Brighton?
Man City fan
Bugger! "Yep, maybe your in a bad mood because spurs haven’t won the league for 61 years  | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
She has the right to vote how she wants, I have the right to interpret her actions, I am sure the OP will agree? If the only reason she voted to leave was because it made her ‘feel good’ because of her polish neighbours then she is confused, ignorant or thick
Wrong again. And if I may add that’s a very narrow minded, some would say ‘bigoted’ view. A view from an ivory tower perhaps?
I thought we were all entitled to ‘do what we want’ ? "Stop being so “woke” you know only some people can do what they want! | |||
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"If she voted for Brexit because of her badly behaved polish neighbours she is either confused, misinformed or just plain stupid . Does she think all polish people behave in the same way? butting in... How a person votes and why they vote a particular way is personal choice afforded to us through democracy. Tell me, why should she think and vote how you believe she should? What makes your views any more valid than her own? Also butting in... Democracy also affords us the right to debate and question the reasons people choose to vote in a certain way. Are you saying a vote based on either explicit or subliminal racist reasons is equally valid to one based on broader knowledge, understanding and tolerance that focuses on behaviour rather than attributes? Do you believe a person has a right to be racist? We all know that racism is wrong. People have a right to be what they want. So people have a right to be racist?people have a right to be anything they choose in all walks of life Not according to some white liberals. Actually not being racist is simply about being a decent person who is uninterested by someones race or nationality and more interested in how they behave and their actions. Nothing to do with being white liberals. Everything to do with being a good person. Not sure why that is a hard concept for some. Being a good person has no negative impact on anyone else. Being a racist has negative impacts on other people. I know how I would prefer to live my life and how I would prefer to be treated by others. So no, you don’t have a right to racist! Quite right and pushing at an open door. The world thankfully is full of good people of all races, colours, religions. Some white people (liberals) do have a skewed sense of what constitutes racism. They are not bad people, they mean well and their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to offend but get mixed up, probably never discussed it with anyone of another race? Why does your ‘friend’ think all Polish people behave in the same way? I’m starting to lose the will to live now! She doesn’t. I thought you were a smart cookie? She must be a bit stupid then
She’s nothing of the sort.
Thick as mince if she thought voting leave would solve her situation
So rude. What if she knew it wouldn’t change things but just gave her a good feeling?
A good feeling? Makes her even more stupid how?
Voting to cripple the economy because she wanted a bit of vengeance, thick as mince
Her right to vote however she feels and you are starting to show a lack of respect for other peoples rights if they don't align to how you think. I wasn't expecting that from you...
She has the right to vote how she wants, I have the right to interpret her actions, I am sure the OP will agree? If the only reason she voted to leave was because it made her ‘feel good’ because of her polish neighbours then she is confused, ignorant or thick
Wrong again. And if I may add that’s a very narrow minded, some would say ‘bigoted’ view. A view from an ivory tower perhaps?
I thought we were all entitled to ‘do what we want’ ?
Stop being so “woke” you know only some people can do what they want!"Ah yes, I forgot, | |||
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"I have a question: I find it really strange that SinCity Blues, made some rather outspoken comments earlier in this thread, that I would have thought rattled the cage a little. 2 replies, one asking what a particular word meant and another deciding not to get into a conversation. Why the lack of challenge? It feels strange... " You mean the wall of text that was a pub crawl of logical fallacies? I didn't engage cos it didn't apply to me even though it was aimed at me. | |||
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"I have a question: I find it really strange that SinCity Blues, made some rather outspoken comments earlier in this thread, that I would have thought rattled the cage a little. 2 replies, one asking what a particular word meant and another deciding not to get into a conversation. Why the lack of challenge? It feels strange... You mean the wall of text that was a pub crawl of logical fallacies? I didn't engage cos it didn't apply to me even though it was aimed at me." I can see why you swerved him, but everyone else too? | |||
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"We miss the good old days when people would shut up about who or what they voted for and stop aregueing. It's not like those who preach are pinnacles of human success are they?" It’s the politics forum | |||
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"We miss the good old days when people would shut up about who or what they voted for and stop aregueing. It's not like those who preach are pinnacles of human success are they?" We could go back to "brush the issues under the rug" Or counter-thought, let's work towards a future where the inequality doesn't exist and there is no need for the arguments? | |||
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"Empty rhetoric and hate that's all this section is good for in reality." Are you being forced to read and post on here? | |||
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"Empty rhetoric and hate that's all this section is good for in reality." If that is all it is good for, why do you find it worth participating in? | |||
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"I have a question: I find it really strange that SinCity Blues, made some rather outspoken comments earlier in this thread, that I would have thought rattled the cage a little. 2 replies, one asking what a particular word meant and another deciding not to get into a conversation. Why the lack of challenge? It feels strange... You mean the wall of text that was a pub crawl of logical fallacies? I didn't engage cos it didn't apply to me even though it was aimed at me. I can see why you swerved him, but everyone else too?" I didn't continue the convo because a) it was late and b) I didn't see what there was to engage with. He stated his reasons for him and his friends voting leave. He used terms I don't think does any favours to to the leave cause. I suspect he doesn't care. I suspect he wouldn't call himself a racist either. I suspect others on the thread will disagree. I'd be more interested in how Seb viewed him tbh. Tbh I only commented to point out his comment wasn't really consistent with itself. And to shine a light as to why some perceive some of the leave vote to have an unsavoury element. I'm not dismissing his reasons. I am suggesting his tone could allow others to jump to a conclusion. Tbh there seems to be more anger in these threads at the privalaged white liberal whitelander than any one else. I think part of the brexit vote may have been a way of attacking this group more than any other. The same way as voting Tory is a fuck you to labour for not doing more. The shame is that things like inflation tend to hurt the poorest first. And I would suggest neither Brexit nor the Tories have helped here (UK is about 1pc higher than EU average) | |||
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"I have a question: I find it really strange that SinCity Blues, made some rather outspoken comments earlier in this thread, that I would have thought rattled the cage a little. 2 replies, one asking what a particular word meant and another deciding not to get into a conversation. Why the lack of challenge? It feels strange... " Nothing to challenge. I thought he was spot on and expressed his views & experience very well indeed. It shut up a few of the ‘dreamers’. | |||
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"I have a question: I find it really strange that SinCity Blues, made some rather outspoken comments earlier in this thread, that I would have thought rattled the cage a little. 2 replies, one asking what a particular word meant and another deciding not to get into a conversation. Why the lack of challenge? It feels strange... Nothing to challenge. I thought he was spot on and expressed his views & experience very well indeed. It shut up a few of the ‘dreamers’. " Getting desperate for an argument again Seb? The topic has been dead for days... | |||
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"I have a question: I find it really strange that SinCity Blues, made some rather outspoken comments earlier in this thread, that I would have thought rattled the cage a little. 2 replies, one asking what a particular word meant and another deciding not to get into a conversation. Why the lack of challenge? It feels strange... Nothing to challenge. I thought he was spot on and expressed his views & experience very well indeed. It shut up a few of the ‘dreamers’. Getting desperate for an argument again Seb? The topic has been dead for days..." I’ve been in the naughty corner. No argument required, just an interesting exchange of views. | |||
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