FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to Politics

Is it transphobic for lesbians to refuse to date a Trans Woman who's had no surgery?

Jump to newest
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield

Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?"

Is this a pisstake?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Is this a pisstake?

"

No. I'm genuinely curious. If trans women are women regardless of whether they've had surgery or not according to some, then would it be transphobic for a CIS gender lesbian to turn them down based on their genitalia?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Is this a pisstake?

No. I'm genuinely curious. If trans women are women regardless of whether they've had surgery or not according to some, then would it be transphobic for a CIS gender lesbian to turn them down based on their genitalia? "

Some yes, some no, everyone is different and has their preferences. Not dating someone, doesn't mean you're prejudice against them, just means you don't want to date them.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Is this a pisstake?

No. I'm genuinely curious. If trans women are women regardless of whether they've had surgery or not according to some, then would it be transphobic for a CIS gender lesbian to turn them down based on their genitalia?

Some yes, some no, everyone is different and has their preferences. Not dating someone, doesn't mean you're prejudice against them, just means you don't want to date them."

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women ... Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas ..."

It seems to me that there's rather more to being a woman than just possession of a vagina.

Whether a lesbian is being transphobic or not will depend on her personal definition of what a woman is, and then on whether the trans woman in question meets the definition.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This question need not just apply to lesbian women. You can also ask if a heterosexual man won't date a transwoman, is he a transphobe? I would day no.

I personally respect trans women, call them by their preferred pronouns. But when it comes to dating and relationships, I prefer cis women. I don't think I fall into category of transphobe. I am pretty sure there are many heterosexual men prefer only cis women. Some of them may indeed by transphobes. But their relationship preferences do not imply that.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Isn’t the world getting bloody complicated!

I would argue that it is the inarguable right of any person to have a sexual relationship with any/only people of their choice.

Some white people are only attracted to white people when it comes to sex, that doesn’t make them racist!

There are some straight women on Fab who are only interested in black guys with big cocks. Are they being racist?

So if some people are only interested in having sex with cis females or cis males why is that transphobia?

Equally there are many who find it an active turn on to have sex with people who have only partially transitioned.

Many men are straight and while they are looking for MFM fun are insistent they won’t meet bi-males. Are they homophobic?

When it comes to sex, surely that remains personal choice?

Of course if any of those people were abusive towards trans people then that is a different matter.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isn’t the world getting bloody complicated!

I would argue that it is the inarguable right of any person to have a sexual relationship with any/only people of their choice.

Some white people are only attracted to white people when it comes to sex, that doesn’t make them racist!

There are some straight women on Fab who are only interested in black guys with big cocks. Are they being racist?

So if some people are only interested in having sex with cis females or cis males why is that transphobia?

Equally there are many who find it an active turn on to have sex with people who have only partially transitioned.

Many men are straight and while they are looking for MFM fun are insistent they won’t meet bi-males. Are they homophobic?

When it comes to sex, surely that remains personal choice?

Of course if any of those people were abusive towards trans people then that is a different matter. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Everybody is allowed to accept or refuse a date with anyone for whatever reason they see fit. Yes that is a full stop.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No it isn't transphobic.

It's actually quite sinister that some trans folk have said to lesbians "how do you know you won't like penis if you've not tried it".

Sickening.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

There is a well known commentator in this digital age who seems to think it’s transphobic for men to not date a Trans Woman so I’m guessing they have the same opinion on Lesbians.

Nobody should demonised for exercising sexual agency. (Unless they do it offensively)

The gate keeping of lesbianism is concerning for all I should imagine.

Complex old world we live in today.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Should remember it’s a tiny proportion who think this way.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"No it isn't transphobic.

It's actually quite sinister that some trans folk have said to lesbians "how do you know you won't like penis if you've not tried it".

Sickening."

I was listening to a podcast with a YouTuber called Arielle Scarela. She's a cis gender lesbian and said she got told once that if she wasn't willing to suck a trans woman's dick she was transphphobic. The thing is the person who told her that wasn't even trans, they were a straight cis gender male but described themselves as a trans ally. But in their attempt to be right on and apparently protect the rights of trans people said possibly the most homophobic thing it's possible to say

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself."

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?"

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself."

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?"

Trans Women ARE women

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women"

Ok but lesbians, in general, don't want to have sex with people with penises. So surely by saying no sorry I don't want to have sex with you because you have a penis, they're not being transphobic, they're just sticking to their sexual preference

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women

Ok but lesbians, in general, don't want to have sex with people with penises. So surely by saying no sorry I don't want to have sex with you because you have a penis, they're not being transphobic, they're just sticking to their sexual preference"

First, not in my experience. I know plenty of lesbians and none of them have had an issue with a trans woman having a penis. (Anti-trans people push this narrative strongly for their own purposes)

Secondly, it is still transphobic.

But guess what it is a person's right to believe what they believe. they have a legal right to be transphobic. They just have to deal with the consequences of those views... like being called transphobic for them.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women"
while you're right to correct, they were trying to ask a valid question.

Tbh, I'm not sure why we need lesbian here. It works the same with just saying a man.

When does a preference turn into an ism ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE womenwhile you're right to correct, they were trying to ask a valid question.

Tbh, I'm not sure why we need lesbian here. It works the same with just saying a man.

When does a preference turn into an ism ? "

The gender critical make it about lesbians so they can claim it is about protecting women and not being transphobic. very common tactic. (I answered the rest of the question in the previous post while you were typing)

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist."

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?"

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

"
is there a difference if it's based on anatomy rather than status ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

"

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isn’t the world getting bloody complicated!

I would argue that it is the inarguable right of any person to have a sexual relationship with any/only people of their choice.

Some white people are only attracted to white people when it comes to sex, that doesn’t make them racist!

There are some straight women on Fab who are only interested in black guys with big cocks. Are they being racist?

So if some people are only interested in having sex with cis females or cis males why is that transphobia?

Equally there are many who find it an active turn on to have sex with people who have only partially transitioned.

Many men are straight and while they are looking for MFM fun are insistent they won’t meet bi-males. Are they homophobic?

When it comes to sex, surely that remains personal choice?

Of course if any of those people were abusive towards trans people then that is a different matter. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No it isn't transphobic.

It's actually quite sinister that some trans folk have said to lesbians "how do you know you won't like penis if you've not tried it".

Sickening."

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

is there a difference if it's based on anatomy rather than status ?"

This is what I'm wondering. I can see how it could be argued that if you're a straight guy dating a woman who has had surgery and has a vagina then dump them when you find out they weren't born a woman it could be transphobic. And the same for the lesbian situation. But if someone is pre op trans then surely they can't be that shocked if someone doesn't want to have sex with them because they don't have the genitalia they prefer in a partner?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This discussion creates some very nuanced areas that maybe comparison to race doesnt work with.

If you dated a white looking gal, but dumped her coz yiubfound out her old man was black... You'd likely be called out.

If you dated a women and dumped her when you found out she used to have a penis that feels close to the above .... (But not exact)

If you dated a women and then dumped her because you found out she had a penis... Then that feels more like dumping someone because you didn't find them attractive naked... Its not great but it's not an ism.

But really, we have sexuality labels based on sex... And are trying to see how these stand up when looking at gender. It's never going to work.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"No it isn't transphobic.

It's actually quite sinister that some trans folk have said to lesbians "how do you know you won't like penis if you've not tried it".

Sickening.

"

the funny part is statistically it is Cis Straight Men saying this, not Trans Women...

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at."

No-one is saying you HAVE to sleep with trans women. I very clearly stated above that it is your right to think what you think.

Doesn't stop it being transphobia though.

Otherwise it is arguing for the right to be transphobic without being called transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at.

No-one is saying you HAVE to sleep with trans women. I very clearly stated above that it is your right to think what you think.

Doesn't stop it being transphobia though.

Otherwise it is arguing for the right to be transphobic without being called transphobic."

Your definition of bringing these characteristics into dating is illogical. Does that mean anyone who prefers dating tall men is bigoted against short men? Anyone who has age preference is bigoted against people outside their age range? Anyone who is not bisexual is bigoted against the other sex? People's sexual and relationship preferences should be out of this kind of judgement.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at."

!!!

I'm fine with being called transphobic or homophobic or racist in such cases. I won't be guilted into fucking someone who I'm not attracted to!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at.

No-one is saying you HAVE to sleep with trans women. I very clearly stated above that it is your right to think what you think.

Doesn't stop it being transphobia though.

Otherwise it is arguing for the right to be transphobic without being called transphobic.

Your definition of bringing these characteristics into dating is illogical. Does that mean anyone who prefers dating tall men is bigoted against short men? Anyone who has age preference is bigoted against people outside their age range? Anyone who is not bisexual is bigoted against the other sex? People's sexual and relationship preferences should be out of this kind of judgement."

You asked if it was transphobic, the answer is yes.

You never asked if people had the right to these views, I still answered yes they have that right.

In the real world the people that would actually bring someone to task over such a scenario is so damn rare it is a statistical non-significance.

But it gets trotted out by the gender critical to make Trans people look bad.

Like cis people 99.9% of trans people don't want to sleep with anyone who doesn't want to sleep with them.

Thinking they do is either arrogant or transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at.

!!!

I'm fine with being called transphobic or homophobic or racist in such cases. I won't be guilted into fucking someone who I'm not attracted to! "

The problem is that if someone leading trans rights movement or racial rights movement has such views, it will repel most other people out of it. There should be a balanced take on what issues they stand for. Definitely, who someone wants to have sex with is none of other people's businesses and should not be out of other people's judgements.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at.

No-one is saying you HAVE to sleep with trans women. I very clearly stated above that it is your right to think what you think.

Doesn't stop it being transphobia though.

Otherwise it is arguing for the right to be transphobic without being called transphobic."

If people just get to throw around labels then couldn't it be argued that by saying gay men who don't want to have sex with trans men who still have vaginas or lesbian women who don't want to have sex with trans women who still have penis are transphobes, you're actually being homophobic. You're denying gay and lesbisn people their right to chose to only have sex with people with the same genitalia as them. You say they have the right to that choice but it means they'll be labeled a transphobe, essentially shaming them for their choice. What if someone who was pro-life did the same thing to a woman who had an abortion? Yeh it's your right and choice to have an abortion but if you do I'm going to publicly call you nasty names and question your morals. It's all just unecessary public shaming

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"

The problem is that if someone leading trans rights movement or racial rights movement has such views, it will repel most other people out of it. There should be a balanced take on what issues they stand for. Definitely, who someone wants to have sex with is none of other people's businesses and should not be out of other people's judgements."

It is the gender critical movement that keeps bringing this topic up, not trans rights people (statistically it is like 90%+ GC 10% Trans)

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks


"

The problem is that if someone leading trans rights movement or racial rights movement has such views, it will repel most other people out of it. There should be a balanced take on what issues they stand for. Definitely, who someone wants to have sex with is none of other people's businesses and should not be out of other people's judgements.

It is the gender critical movement that keeps bringing this topic up, not trans rights people (statistically it is like 90%+ GC 10% Trans)"

Where do you get your statistics from?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

If I mention in my dating profile, that I am not interested in dating transwomen, that's transphobic too?

If your not interested in dating a Trans woman full stop, BECAUSE they are a trans woman. Yes.

Just like if you weren't interested in dating a non-white person because they were non-white is racist.

Trans women are women. I call them with their preferred pronouns.

It's just my personal preference to date people born with female parts. But I am a transphobe?

already answered but:

If you are refusing to do it based on their Trans Status, then it is Transphobic.

No, I don't think I am a transphobe in that case. The very few who bring transphobia and racism to judge an individual's choice in relationships and sexuality can keep crying. I hope it doesn't feel others guilty for excising their free will. This is the kind of shit why the modern liberal movement has been laughed at.

No-one is saying you HAVE to sleep with trans women. I very clearly stated above that it is your right to think what you think.

Doesn't stop it being transphobia though.

Otherwise it is arguing for the right to be transphobic without being called transphobic.

Your definition of bringing these characteristics into dating is illogical. Does that mean anyone who prefers dating tall men is bigoted against short men? Anyone who has age preference is bigoted against people outside their age range? Anyone who is not bisexual is bigoted against the other sex? People's sexual and relationship preferences should be out of this kind of judgement.

You asked if it was transphobic, the answer is yes.

You never asked if people had the right to these views, I still answered yes they have that right.

In the real world the people that would actually bring someone to task over such a scenario is so damn rare it is a statistical non-significance.

But it gets trotted out by the gender critical to make Trans people look bad.

Like cis people 99.9% of trans people don't want to sleep with anyone who doesn't want to sleep with them.

Thinking they do is either arrogant or transphobic."

No. My point is no one should be judged for their sexual preferences no matter what they are. By calling someone a transphobe for not having sex with transwomen, you are judging that person. This goes completely against the philosophy of sexual liberalism.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The problem is that if someone leading trans rights movement or racial rights movement has such views, it will repel most other people out of it. There should be a balanced take on what issues they stand for. Definitely, who someone wants to have sex with is none of other people's businesses and should not be out of other people's judgements.

It is the gender critical movement that keeps bringing this topic up, not trans rights people (statistically it is like 90%+ GC 10% Trans)"

It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means."

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong."

Wow. What a brilliant way to have a rational argument!!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

[Removed by poster at 16/07/22 12:43:15]

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

[Removed by poster at 16/07/22 12:43:06]

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am."

Except not all men have a Penistone

Reposted cos I forgot to quote

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong.

Wow. What a brilliant way to have a rational argument!! "

Just as rational and valid as what I replied to

Reposted cos I forgot to quote

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

[Removed by poster at 16/07/22 12:50:16]

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Except not all men have a Penistone

Reposted cos I forgot to quote"

unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date.

That is who I am.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong.

Wow. What a brilliant way to have a rational argument!!

Just as rational and valid as what I replied to

Reposted cos I forgot to quote"

No. I gave clear examples of people's sexual preferences about height and age. None of that is considered bigotry. Why should this be judged differently?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I know a trans-woman. She has gone the whole journey, with lots of pain along the way.

She identifies as a lesbian and makes her moves in that scene. Over the last few years, she has got close to a few but to date, has not had intimacy with any other lesbian.

Asked why, the answer is always the same. "They like me but never enough to want to have sex with me"

Human nature is very fickle at times. Using labels is of no help either.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong.

Wow. What a brilliant way to have a rational argument!! "

Did you not know that TheNerdyFemby is the self proclaimed Fab voice and authority on all Trans issues.

Her words are final and not to be argued with..

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong.

Wow. What a brilliant way to have a rational argument!!

Did you not know that TheNerdyFemby is the self proclaimed Fab voice and authority on all Trans issues.

Her words are final and not to be argued with.. "

I didn't know that

Thanks for reminding

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong.

Wow. What a brilliant way to have a rational argument!!

Did you not know that TheNerdyFemby is the self proclaimed Fab voice and authority on all Trans issues.

Her words are final and not to be argued with.. "

Funny

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *JB1954Man
over a year ago

Reading


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am."

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ? "

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
over a year ago

chichester


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?"

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible. "

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is ridiculous! Regardless of your sexuality you are not automatically attracted to everybody of that sex.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was."

How is it different from "education" making homosexuals to get into heterosexual relationship?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.

How is it different from "education" making homosexuals to get into heterosexual relationship?"

Are you seriously asking what the difference between "better education on the difference between sex and gender" and "conversion therapy" is?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.

How is it different from "education" making homosexuals to get into heterosexual relationship?

Are you seriously asking what the difference between "better education on the difference between sex and gender" and "conversion therapy" is?"

Not really. I am asking about "educatin" someone to learn to be sexually attracted to someone who they are not attracted to. As I said before, I treat trans women as women. I call them with preferred pronouns. But when it comes to sexual attraction, I am attracted to cis women and not trans women. Why the hell should I go be "educated" to learn to be attracted towards a group of people I am not attracted to? How is it different from conversion therapy?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.

How is it different from "education" making homosexuals to get into heterosexual relationship?

Are you seriously asking what the difference between "better education on the difference between sex and gender" and "conversion therapy" is?

Not really. I am asking about "educatin" someone to learn to be sexually attracted to someone who they are not attracted to. As I said before, I treat trans women as women. I call them with preferred pronouns. But when it comes to sexual attraction, I am attracted to cis women and not trans women. Why the hell should I go be "educated" to learn to be attracted towards a group of people I am not attracted to? How is it different from conversion therapy?"

But that is not what I said...

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was."
why education just leave it to nature who your attracted to lol

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.why education just leave it to nature who your attracted to lol"

A lot of nurture goes into that. We are raised to view things a certain way, and that colours how you view things. by better education I am talking about making sure that none of that nurture is rooted in bigotry.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question."

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *usic TrishTV/TS
over a year ago

Kelty

It's not transphobic, it's personal preference. It only would become transphobic if it was because they didn't like transwomen for transphobic reasons.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

"

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.why education just leave it to nature who your attracted to lol

A lot of nurture goes into that. We are raised to view things a certain way, and that colours how you view things. by better education I am talking about making sure that none of that nurture is rooted in bigotry."

I am not attracted to people born with penis. I am not bigoted against trans women too. There is nothing wrong in wanting to have sex only with a specific group of people. There is no need for education unless you have evidence for bigotry. One's sexual preferences doesn't affect anyone else. There is no point judging people based on that

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *antra MassageMan
over a year ago

city

Its not a phobia, its a preference.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway"

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.why education just leave it to nature who your attracted to lol

A lot of nurture goes into that. We are raised to view things a certain way, and that colours how you view things. by better education I am talking about making sure that none of that nurture is rooted in bigotry.

I am not attracted to people born with penis. I am not bigoted against trans women too. There is nothing wrong in wanting to have sex only with a specific group of people. There is no need for education unless you have evidence for bigotry. One's sexual preferences doesn't affect anyone else. There is no point judging people based on that "

Are you deliberately missing what I have been saying at this point?

I have said if the ONLY reason you choose not to be involved with or sleep with a Trans person is that they are Trans, that is transphobic.

Yet you keep bringing other things into it.

I have also said repeatedly, no-one should be forcing anyone to sleep with anyone, all the sex should be consensual.

"I am not attracted to people born with penis." betrays your argument a little, because there are many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis.

Just put "Don't want to date/sleep with trans people" in your bio and then they can avoid you.

Simples.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured. "

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

"

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

"

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong."

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *antra MassageMan
over a year ago

city

Nerdy,.. You seem to be a scientist. Not everything is a matter of science, attraction involves empathy, love, curiosity, desire, lust, attraction, and the heart and gut. Not all these can be measured in a scientific way. It's better described with poetry and art .

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?"

Dishonest, because there are trans people born with a penis that you will have absolutely no idea about. And fit the traditional ideas of beauty and hotness more so than Cis Women, to categorically state you could not be attracted to a person who was born with a penis is... dishonest, either with yourself or with the world at large.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Nerdy,.. You seem to be a scientist. Not everything is a matter of science, attraction involves empathy, love, curiosity, desire, lust, attraction, and the heart and gut. Not all these can be measured in a scientific way. It's better described with poetry and art . "

I never said otherwise... it is others that bring up science as though it was one or the other, I am just telling them that it isn't.

I have also been saying it is only transphobic if their trans status is the only reason for them to not be attracted.

Which fits in perfectly with what you just said.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?

Dishonest, because there are trans people born with a penis that you will have absolutely no idea about. And fit the traditional ideas of beauty and hotness more so than Cis Women, to categorically state you could not be attracted to a person who was born with a penis is... dishonest, either with yourself or with the world at large."

Dishonest?

Could I not say the same about you?

I wouldn't because I accept other people, and would never dare judge someone as dishonest by their sexual preference.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?

Dishonest, because there are trans people born with a penis that you will have absolutely no idea about. And fit the traditional ideas of beauty and hotness more so than Cis Women, to categorically state you could not be attracted to a person who was born with a penis is... dishonest, either with yourself or with the world at large.

Dishonest?

Could I not say the same about you?

I wouldn't because I accept other people, and would never dare judge someone as dishonest by their sexual preference."

I didn't say your sexual attraction was dishonest, I said the categorisation of it was.

Because simply you cannot know 100% whether someone you fancy is trans or not. You will either be attracted to them or not. Their being trans doesn't factor into it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?

Dishonest, because there are trans people born with a penis that you will have absolutely no idea about. And fit the traditional ideas of beauty and hotness more so than Cis Women, to categorically state you could not be attracted to a person who was born with a penis is... dishonest, either with yourself or with the world at large.

Dishonest?

Could I not say the same about you?

I wouldn't because I accept other people, and would never dare judge someone as dishonest by their sexual preference.

I didn't say your sexual attraction was dishonest, I said the categorisation of it was.

Because simply you cannot know 100% whether someone you fancy is trans or not. You will either be attracted to them or not. Their being trans doesn't factor into it."

I can tell you with 100% confidence, if a person has a penis, I am not going to be attracted to them, the penis is a deal breaking, not going to happen thing.

It is how I feel about it, it is me.

Others obviously don't feel the same as I do, but I don't really care and never let it bother me or judge them

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?

Dishonest, because there are trans people born with a penis that you will have absolutely no idea about. And fit the traditional ideas of beauty and hotness more so than Cis Women, to categorically state you could not be attracted to a person who was born with a penis is... dishonest, either with yourself or with the world at large.

Dishonest?

Could I not say the same about you?

I wouldn't because I accept other people, and would never dare judge someone as dishonest by their sexual preference.

I didn't say your sexual attraction was dishonest, I said the categorisation of it was.

Because simply you cannot know 100% whether someone you fancy is trans or not. You will either be attracted to them or not. Their being trans doesn't factor into it.

I can tell you with 100% confidence, if a person has a penis, I am not going to be attracted to them, the penis is a deal breaking, not going to happen thing.

It is how I feel about it, it is me.

Others obviously don't feel the same as I do, but I don't really care and never let it bother me or judge them

"

So many questions...

Why did you originally say anyone born with a penis first time round?

How do you know if someone has a penis when you are looking at them 100% of the time?

Can you only feel attraction for someone who you have seen naked?

What happens if someone you have declared your attraction for then tells you they were born with a penis?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would not have sex with a man, because he has a penis.

Which means I would not date a man.

Therefore I would not have sex or a date with anyone who has a penis.

This is who I am.

Is part of this which could happen . A male or female who is looking for a female . Sees a profile that states female . Yet that profile is not being truthful on their profile as to their physical sexuality. Fab yes gives various profile choices as to sexual requirements. Reason I say this. Number of threads where people get called out about being honest on their profiles . EG being married . So is not stating either on profile the same. ?

Biology doesn't even have a single way to define male and female. And none of the definitions that get used are universally true or binary. (Binary meaning there are two and only two options)

The FAB site is setup in a way which conflates with your assigned sex at birth which gender, which are not universally the same things.

I signed up as a woman, because I am a woman, despite being assigned male at birth.

The TS/TV/CD is also not the right group.

Do i wish that FAB had Trans Woman and Trans Man categories.

Overall yes, because then I wouldn't have to have as many conversations about it with people who do not read my profile.

Overall though this doesn't really have much to do with the OP question.

Why do you believe there is no male or female difference in biology?

I don't believe that there is ONLY male/female in biology like the gender critical like to state.

Because biologists tell me that there is no binary sex in biology.

Binary means there are two and only two options.

And there is no way in biology of defining sex where there are two and only two answers.

Biology uses several different things to determine sex, and again it isn't a binary.

We as a society need to move past the basic level of biology we are taught when we are 8.

My thoughts anyway

There will be outliers, that could be either or none, the complex nature of cell generation into a human form will always throw up anomalies.

However, there are male and female in biology. Sperm and egg is the easiest way of grouping this, especially in human form.

Not identifying with the body you were born into, does not change the biology, the body is physical, the mind creates thought and feelings these are not physical, and can't be measured.

Not the argument we are discussing though, also doesn't prove me wrong when I say it isn't binary.

To you no it isn't, but to science it is.

Going back to the OP:

I said I would not sleep with a man, because he has a penis and therefore I would not sleep with anyone who has a penis.

I also said, unless someone has a real, born at birth vagina, I'm not interested in any sexual relationship or date, because that is who I am.

What does that make me in your eyes?

That isn't the science, the rest of your question is flawed because of that.

There is no way that holds up to scientific rigour which classifies sex as a binary. saying otherwise is simply wrong.

My sexual preferences make me what in your eyes?

Dishonest, because there are trans people born with a penis that you will have absolutely no idea about. And fit the traditional ideas of beauty and hotness more so than Cis Women, to categorically state you could not be attracted to a person who was born with a penis is... dishonest, either with yourself or with the world at large.

Dishonest?

Could I not say the same about you?

I wouldn't because I accept other people, and would never dare judge someone as dishonest by their sexual preference.

I didn't say your sexual attraction was dishonest, I said the categorisation of it was.

Because simply you cannot know 100% whether someone you fancy is trans or not. You will either be attracted to them or not. Their being trans doesn't factor into it.

I can tell you with 100% confidence, if a person has a penis, I am not going to be attracted to them, the penis is a deal breaking, not going to happen thing.

It is how I feel about it, it is me.

Others obviously don't feel the same as I do, but I don't really care and never let it bother me or judge them

So many questions...

Why did you originally say anyone born with a penis first time round?

How do you know if someone has a penis when you are looking at them 100% of the time?

Can you only feel attraction for someone who you have seen naked?

What happens if someone you have declared your attraction for then tells you they were born with a penis?"

I can't be any clearer than what I have already stated.

you see things very differently to me, I understand that and respect that.

It does not make me a bigot, and it does not make me transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

Depends if the lesbian in question views a trans woman as a woman or not. (Some do , some don’t I find ) That’s a personal belief we all make in life if we agree / believe with things.

Not everyone believes humans can change gender and Thst is a persons right to think what they like. It’s if they start going out of way to suppress / abuse a group / minority etc then it is problematic.

Much like religion vs non religion .

I have been rejected from lesbian women sexually because of my Penis no biggie move along to another person that is compatible.

Everything you said is true and valid and mirrors very much what I have said throughout the thread.

People should sleep with who they want to sleep with, and no-one should be sleeping with anyone unless both parties have given active consent.

Doesn't change whether discrimination is involved or not. And it shouldn't change either. Consent comes before everything.

I would rather see education change people's minds so they are more open minded and not trapped in the mindset of cis-heteronormative views.

But all of this is not what the OP question was.why education just leave it to nature who your attracted to lol

A lot of nurture goes into that. We are raised to view things a certain way, and that colours how you view things. by better education I am talking about making sure that none of that nurture is rooted in bigotry.

I am not attracted to people born with penis. I am not bigoted against trans women too. There is nothing wrong in wanting to have sex only with a specific group of people. There is no need for education unless you have evidence for bigotry. One's sexual preferences doesn't affect anyone else. There is no point judging people based on that

Are you deliberately missing what I have been saying at this point?

I have said if the ONLY reason you choose not to be involved with or sleep with a Trans person is that they are Trans, that is transphobic.

Yet you keep bringing other things into it.

I have also said repeatedly, no-one should be forcing anyone to sleep with anyone, all the sex should be consensual.

"I am not attracted to people born with penis." betrays your argument a little, because there are many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis.

Just put "Don't want to date/sleep with trans people" in your bio and then they can avoid you.

Simples."

I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?"

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"So many questions...

Why did you originally say anyone born with a penis first time round?

How do you know if someone has a penis when you are looking at them 100% of the time?

Can you only feel attraction for someone who you have seen naked?

What happens if someone you have declared your attraction for then tells you they were born with a penis?

I can't be any clearer than what I have already stated.

you see things very differently to me, I understand that and respect that.

It does not make me a bigot, and it does not make me transphobic.

"

I am not trying to attack here, genuinely. Why did you choose not to answer any of my question, I answered yours even though it felt leading and a little uncomfortable.

the point I have been trying to make is that you will be attracted to someone or you won't be, their trans status is likely not going to be a factor in that.

Bearing in mind Attraction and sleeping with someone are two entirely different things.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"So many questions...

Why did you originally say anyone born with a penis first time round?

How do you know if someone has a penis when you are looking at them 100% of the time?

Can you only feel attraction for someone who you have seen naked?

What happens if someone you have declared your attraction for then tells you they were born with a penis?

I can't be any clearer than what I have already stated.

you see things very differently to me, I understand that and respect that.

It does not make me a bigot, and it does not make me transphobic.

I am not trying to attack here, genuinely. Why did you choose not to answer any of my question, I answered yours even though it felt leading and a little uncomfortable.

the point I have been trying to make is that you will be attracted to someone or you won't be, their trans status is likely not going to be a factor in that.

Bearing in mind Attraction and sleeping with someone are two entirely different things."

I agree with this post, now that’s a first

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question."

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist."

Again you are conflating biological sex with gender when they are entirely different things.

One is one of a variety of different interpretations of either biology or anatomy, the other is a Social construct on how we treat people based on the former. This is why what is termed as manly or Womanly changes with culture around the globe. It is also why In the history of the globe only a tiny fraction of it exists with only two genders. Look at the Two Spirited people of Indigenous America or the Hijras of India as just two examples.

As for how many XY can give birth, there is no way of knowing because like I said unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a person we don't actually check their chromosomes, we simply make assumptions.

Your view of Sex and Gender is not rooted in science, in any fashion.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women"

In your opinion

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women

In your opinion"

And the opinion of the majority of the UK, but thanks for playing!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women

In your opinion

And the opinion of the majority of the UK, but thanks for playing!"

I don't think the majority believe this.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?

Trans Women ARE women

In your opinion

And the opinion of the majority of the UK, but thanks for playing!

I don't think the majority believe this."

According to the data that we have on it at least a 2/3rds majority support Self ID and the statement that Trans Women are Women and Trans men are men

You can look up the numbers on YouGov.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

During my life I would have loved to identify as a man, sadly I would have still encountered sexual abuse, sexual intimidation and misogyny. Why because I am a female.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist.

Again you are conflating biological sex with gender when they are entirely different things.

One is one of a variety of different interpretations of either biology or anatomy, the other is a Social construct on how we treat people based on the former. This is why what is termed as manly or Womanly changes with culture around the globe. It is also why In the history of the globe only a tiny fraction of it exists with only two genders. Look at the Two Spirited people of Indigenous America or the Hijras of India as just two examples.

As for how many XY can give birth, there is no way of knowing because like I said unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a person we don't actually check their chromosomes, we simply make assumptions.

Your view of Sex and Gender is not rooted in science, in any fashion."

I understand that sex and gender are different. Sex is a biological construct. Gender is a social construct. Sex has to be rooted in reality. If none of this is rooted in reality, there is no meaning in transwomen too. There is no point in transwomen asking to use female toilets. We don't test for chromosomes because it is very rare that it happens. It is biologically known to be uncommon.

Biological sex exists. As you say, there could be multiple. And people can choose whichever sex they want to have a relationship with. None of this will make them a bigot.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist.

Again you are conflating biological sex with gender when they are entirely different things.

One is one of a variety of different interpretations of either biology or anatomy, the other is a Social construct on how we treat people based on the former. This is why what is termed as manly or Womanly changes with culture around the globe. It is also why In the history of the globe only a tiny fraction of it exists with only two genders. Look at the Two Spirited people of Indigenous America or the Hijras of India as just two examples.

As for how many XY can give birth, there is no way of knowing because like I said unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a person we don't actually check their chromosomes, we simply make assumptions.

Your view of Sex and Gender is not rooted in science, in any fashion.

I understand that sex and gender are different. Sex is a biological construct. Gender is a social construct. Sex has to be rooted in reality. If none of this is rooted in reality, there is no meaning in transwomen too. There is no point in transwomen asking to use female toilets. We don't test for chromosomes because it is very rare that it happens. It is biologically known to be uncommon.

Biological sex exists. As you say, there could be multiple. And people can choose whichever sex they want to have a relationship with. None of this will make them a bigot."

You claim to know that sex and gender are different and then go on to use sex in a gender argument.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist.

Again you are conflating biological sex with gender when they are entirely different things.

One is one of a variety of different interpretations of either biology or anatomy, the other is a Social construct on how we treat people based on the former. This is why what is termed as manly or Womanly changes with culture around the globe. It is also why In the history of the globe only a tiny fraction of it exists with only two genders. Look at the Two Spirited people of Indigenous America or the Hijras of India as just two examples.

As for how many XY can give birth, there is no way of knowing because like I said unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a person we don't actually check their chromosomes, we simply make assumptions.

Your view of Sex and Gender is not rooted in science, in any fashion.

I understand that sex and gender are different. Sex is a biological construct. Gender is a social construct. Sex has to be rooted in reality. If none of this is rooted in reality, there is no meaning in transwomen too. There is no point in transwomen asking to use female toilets. We don't test for chromosomes because it is very rare that it happens. It is biologically known to be uncommon.

Biological sex exists. As you say, there could be multiple. And people can choose whichever sex they want to have a relationship with. None of this will make them a bigot.

You claim to know that sex and gender are different and then go on to use sex in a gender argument. "

This is not specifically a gender argument. People can have sexual preferences based on sex or based on gender. There is nothing bigoted about that.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist.

Again you are conflating biological sex with gender when they are entirely different things.

One is one of a variety of different interpretations of either biology or anatomy, the other is a Social construct on how we treat people based on the former. This is why what is termed as manly or Womanly changes with culture around the globe. It is also why In the history of the globe only a tiny fraction of it exists with only two genders. Look at the Two Spirited people of Indigenous America or the Hijras of India as just two examples.

As for how many XY can give birth, there is no way of knowing because like I said unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a person we don't actually check their chromosomes, we simply make assumptions.

Your view of Sex and Gender is not rooted in science, in any fashion.

I understand that sex and gender are different. Sex is a biological construct. Gender is a social construct. Sex has to be rooted in reality. If none of this is rooted in reality, there is no meaning in transwomen too. There is no point in transwomen asking to use female toilets. We don't test for chromosomes because it is very rare that it happens. It is biologically known to be uncommon.

Biological sex exists. As you say, there could be multiple. And people can choose whichever sex they want to have a relationship with. None of this will make them a bigot.

You claim to know that sex and gender are different and then go on to use sex in a gender argument.

This is not specifically a gender argument. People can have sexual preferences based on sex or based on gender. There is nothing bigoted about that."

But you cannot possibly know someones sex before you feel attracted to them, not 100% of the time anyway.

Which is why it is a Gender argument, and not a sex one.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I very well understand your argument and I know it's utter bullshit. It's nothing different from religious evangelics trying to put homosexuals in conversion therapy because they have a moral opinion on right and wrong.

"many many post op trans people who you would never know were born with a penis" - Never seen such a silly argument. If a person committed a crime and just forgot about it, should they not be tried? I deserve to choose whoever I want to have relationship with. Anyone who willingly hides the fact about what they are born as even after knowing my preference is a horrible human.

And I am appalled by how you misuse science to put forth your arguments. Sexual reproduction exists because of two sexes. Someone with X and Y chromosome having female parts or vice versa or someone who is psychologically female but born with male parts are all oddities and not the norms. The society should do everything to accommodate them. But they need to understand that the common behaviour of a male wanting to have sex with female with female parts is just natural. There is nothing wrong with that. Using rare circumstances to deny biological sex and human aspects that come with it is plain wrong and downright selfish.

If biological sex, even the whole concept of transwomen becomes paradoxical. What exactly does that mean then? Why do transwomen want to be admitted into female toilets if sex doesn't matter anyway?

The fact you conflate your entitlement to know the medical history of someone and them not disclosing that to a crime... yeah don't really need to carry on with that. If you do not want to sleep someone who was born a certain way, it is down to you to tell your potential partners that, not them. Your right's stop where other people's rights start (and vice versa).

At least you have displayed just how much you don't know about actual science. XX and XY being tied to specific formations of anatomy are huge oversimplifications, someone with a uterus and all accompanying reproductive organs/characteristics can have XY chromosomes, they can even get pregnant and give birth. Chances are you do not even know what your chromosomes are, because as a society we do not check unless we have to and assumptions are made.

Binary means there are two and only two options. and given there are many more options to chromosomes than XX and XY just makes your assertation entirely unscientific.

And conflating sex with gender does nothing than show even more misunderstanding of the sciences.

But yet again you keep bringing things into the argument which have nothing to do with what I originally said when I answered the OP's question.

Again, you are taking rare cases and acting like that's a norm. Among billions of people, how many people with XY chromosomes had vagina and ended up getting pregnant? Existence of just two are more sexes doesn't matter here. More type of sexes doesn't imply that biological sex is a lie.

Again, if biological sex doesn't exist, what exactly does the term "transwoman" even mean? Why does post-op matter and why do transwomen want to use women's toilet? It shouldn't matter anyway right? The very term transwoman will lose its meaning if biological sex doesn't exist.

Again you are conflating biological sex with gender when they are entirely different things.

One is one of a variety of different interpretations of either biology or anatomy, the other is a Social construct on how we treat people based on the former. This is why what is termed as manly or Womanly changes with culture around the globe. It is also why In the history of the globe only a tiny fraction of it exists with only two genders. Look at the Two Spirited people of Indigenous America or the Hijras of India as just two examples.

As for how many XY can give birth, there is no way of knowing because like I said unless there is something fundamentally wrong with a person we don't actually check their chromosomes, we simply make assumptions.

Your view of Sex and Gender is not rooted in science, in any fashion.

I understand that sex and gender are different. Sex is a biological construct. Gender is a social construct. Sex has to be rooted in reality. If none of this is rooted in reality, there is no meaning in transwomen too. There is no point in transwomen asking to use female toilets. We don't test for chromosomes because it is very rare that it happens. It is biologically known to be uncommon.

Biological sex exists. As you say, there could be multiple. And people can choose whichever sex they want to have a relationship with. None of this will make them a bigot.

You claim to know that sex and gender are different and then go on to use sex in a gender argument.

This is not specifically a gender argument. People can have sexual preferences based on sex or based on gender. There is nothing bigoted about that.

But you cannot possibly know someones sex before you feel attracted to them, not 100% of the time anyway.

Which is why it is a Gender argument, and not a sex one."

I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too? "

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex."

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships."

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a very few trans rights people who call it transphobia and make an issue out of it. It's not transphobia by any means.

Mansplaining Trans Issues to a Trans Woman.

Everything you said there was wrong."

You regularly "transplain" things on here to women about issues that impact them.

I'm bisexual.

If I meet a woman I am attracted to, I would fully expect (and be sorely disappointed) if she did not have a vagina when and if we had sex.

Same applies to any man I was intimate with.

If that makes me a "-phobe" of any kind then so be it. I'm out of fucks to give on this subject.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

"

Look for the Adams apple bobbing up and down that tells you that person is male.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?"

No.

Because he's a straight guy, who was led to believe he was seeing a biological woman and was misled.

I'd actually feel genuinely sorry for both parties here to be honest as I can only imagine that it must be horrific carrying a secret that big around with you day to day. Especially if you present as very feminine and guys are genuinely attracted to you.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

"

Not really. I gave you various examples of how attraction can change based on different traits. If you think that's not something under my control, fair enough. But even if it's not under my control, biological sex could easily be a part of that. In fact, it is a part of it for me and lots of other men. In your case, it doesn't matter. But you shouldn't expect everyone to see the world like how you see it. I can be attracted to someone until I know their sex and lose all the attraction the moment I know it. Just like I find someone to be attractive and then lose interest the moment I start talking with them.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?"

I stand by what I said from the start, if the ONLY reason they are changing their mind is because of the persons trans status, then that is transphobic. If something else is playing into it then I cannot answer wholeheartedly.

In the example you give too, almost every trans person (i say almost as I don't know the mind of everyone, but the ones I have spoken on this subject agree) I have met may feel disappointed, but would not want to bring the person to task, or admonish them for it. It is a part of life, just like any other rejection.

I also said that no-one should sleep with someone they don't want to.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

Not really. I gave you various examples of how attraction can change based on different traits. If you think that's not something under my control, fair enough. But even if it's not under my control, biological sex could easily be a part of that. In fact, it is a part of it for me and lots of other men. In your case, it doesn't matter. But you shouldn't expect everyone to see the world like how you see it. I can be attracted to someone until I know their sex and lose all the attraction the moment I know it. Just like I find someone to be attractive and then lose interest the moment I start talking with them."

You are arguing against yourself at this point.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

Not really. I gave you various examples of how attraction can change based on different traits. If you think that's not something under my control, fair enough. But even if it's not under my control, biological sex could easily be a part of that. In fact, it is a part of it for me and lots of other men. In your case, it doesn't matter. But you shouldn't expect everyone to see the world like how you see it. I can be attracted to someone until I know their sex and lose all the attraction the moment I know it. Just like I find someone to be attractive and then lose interest the moment I start talking with them.

You are arguing against yourself at this point."

Nope. You are the one who lost the plot. Your argument that you may not know someone's sex so you can't have that preference doesn't make any sense. I can never know someone's character until I talk with the person. Doesn't mean that person's character doesn't play a role in my attraction towards them. I could find someone attractive and lose that attraction the moment I talk with them. Similarly, I can lose attraction to someone the moment I know their biological sex.

You are doing a serious disservice to the LGBT movement by bringing it to judge people's sexual preferences. Embracing one's sexuality without being judged is one of the important pillars of liberal moral philosophy. If you are going to judge and call someone names because they have specific sexual preferences, you aren't a liberal anymore. It goes against the very definition of liberalism. This is the kind of behaviour that repels people from the cause. Remember it's really hard to get people to support a cause but damn too easy to push them away by spouting judgemental shit like this.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

Not really. I gave you various examples of how attraction can change based on different traits. If you think that's not something under my control, fair enough. But even if it's not under my control, biological sex could easily be a part of that. In fact, it is a part of it for me and lots of other men. In your case, it doesn't matter. But you shouldn't expect everyone to see the world like how you see it. I can be attracted to someone until I know their sex and lose all the attraction the moment I know it. Just like I find someone to be attractive and then lose interest the moment I start talking with them.

You are arguing against yourself at this point.

Nope. You are the one who lost the plot. Your argument that you may not know someone's sex so you can't have that preference doesn't make any sense. I can never know someone's character until I talk with the person. Doesn't mean that person's character doesn't play a role in my attraction towards them. I could find someone attractive and lose that attraction the moment I talk with them. Similarly, I can lose attraction to someone the moment I know their biological sex.

You are doing a serious disservice to the LGBT movement by bringing it to judge people's sexual preferences. Embracing one's sexuality without being judged is one of the important pillars of liberal moral philosophy. If you are going to judge and call someone names because they have specific sexual preferences, you aren't a liberal anymore. It goes against the very definition of liberalism. This is the kind of behaviour that repels people from the cause. Remember it's really hard to get people to support a cause but damn too easy to push them away by spouting judgemental shit like this."

You are the one arguing attraction is a choice. It is not.

Keep on hating, it is your right!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

Not really. I gave you various examples of how attraction can change based on different traits. If you think that's not something under my control, fair enough. But even if it's not under my control, biological sex could easily be a part of that. In fact, it is a part of it for me and lots of other men. In your case, it doesn't matter. But you shouldn't expect everyone to see the world like how you see it. I can be attracted to someone until I know their sex and lose all the attraction the moment I know it. Just like I find someone to be attractive and then lose interest the moment I start talking with them.

You are arguing against yourself at this point.

Nope. You are the one who lost the plot. Your argument that you may not know someone's sex so you can't have that preference doesn't make any sense. I can never know someone's character until I talk with the person. Doesn't mean that person's character doesn't play a role in my attraction towards them. I could find someone attractive and lose that attraction the moment I talk with them. Similarly, I can lose attraction to someone the moment I know their biological sex.

You are doing a serious disservice to the LGBT movement by bringing it to judge people's sexual preferences. Embracing one's sexuality without being judged is one of the important pillars of liberal moral philosophy. If you are going to judge and call someone names because they have specific sexual preferences, you aren't a liberal anymore. It goes against the very definition of liberalism. This is the kind of behaviour that repels people from the cause. Remember it's really hard to get people to support a cause but damn too easy to push them away by spouting judgemental shit like this.

You are the one arguing attraction is a choice. It is not.

Keep on hating, it is your right!"

Wow!! If I don't want to have sex with someone, I hate that person

Brilliant logic

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I can know if I ask them. If they lie, I consider it a bad characteristic trait. There are so many people in dating apps who claim they won't get into a relationship with someone who voted for a specific political party. There is no way for anyone to know that with 100% confidence. Does it mean they shouldn't choose someone based on political alignment too?

No, you are either attracted to someone or you are not. You have little to know control over that, none of us do.

How you act on said attraction can involve other factors.

I have no interest in dating or sleeping with Tories, hence I put that in my profile. It clearly states "No TERFs, Tories or anyone who thinks Woke is an insult."

Now that is me setting boundaries, it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with whether I will find someone attractive.

I could find a Tory Anti-Woke TERF hot as hell, and I would have no control over that. U just wouldn't sleep with them.

And it also exemplifies why Attraction is gender based not sex based, because what you see is gender presentation, not sex.

People do have control over who they are attracted to. Ask anyone who has been through a divorce. I am divorced myself. Towards the end of it, I found some of her characteristic traits so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to even sit close to her, never mind having sex with her. I wouldn't even get an erection if she was naked. I have found people looking so hot and lost interest after I had a conversation with them. I have met women who I did not find attractive and then found them attractive after I started speaking with them. It's not all about looks.

Attraction can be gender based or sex based. If it is gender based for you, all power to you. It's sex based for me and many others. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't make sense to call it transphobia. If I see a dick on a transwoman or if I know that the person has been through transition, it will put me off immediately, just like it put people off their partners at end of relationships.

I never said attraction couldn't change. I said you have no control over who you are attracted to.

If you could control it then you could choose to be attracted to someone despite them being everything you dislike. You are proving my argument for me.

Attraction isn't sex based because you do not know a person's sex, you know their Gender Presentation.

Not really. I gave you various examples of how attraction can change based on different traits. If you think that's not something under my control, fair enough. But even if it's not under my control, biological sex could easily be a part of that. In fact, it is a part of it for me and lots of other men. In your case, it doesn't matter. But you shouldn't expect everyone to see the world like how you see it. I can be attracted to someone until I know their sex and lose all the attraction the moment I know it. Just like I find someone to be attractive and then lose interest the moment I start talking with them.

You are arguing against yourself at this point.

Nope. You are the one who lost the plot. Your argument that you may not know someone's sex so you can't have that preference doesn't make any sense. I can never know someone's character until I talk with the person. Doesn't mean that person's character doesn't play a role in my attraction towards them. I could find someone attractive and lose that attraction the moment I talk with them. Similarly, I can lose attraction to someone the moment I know their biological sex.

You are doing a serious disservice to the LGBT movement by bringing it to judge people's sexual preferences. Embracing one's sexuality without being judged is one of the important pillars of liberal moral philosophy. If you are going to judge and call someone names because they have specific sexual preferences, you aren't a liberal anymore. It goes against the very definition of liberalism. This is the kind of behaviour that repels people from the cause. Remember it's really hard to get people to support a cause but damn too easy to push them away by spouting judgemental shit like this.

You are the one arguing attraction is a choice. It is not.

Keep on hating, it is your right!

Wow!! If I don't want to have sex with someone, I hate that person

Brilliant logic "

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?

I stand by what I said from the start, if the ONLY reason they are changing their mind is because of the persons trans status, then that is transphobic. If something else is playing into it then I cannot answer wholeheartedly.

In the example you give too, almost every trans person (i say almost as I don't know the mind of everyone, but the ones I have spoken on this subject agree) I have met may feel disappointed, but would not want to bring the person to task, or admonish them for it. It is a part of life, just like any other rejection.

I also said that no-one should sleep with someone they don't want to."

I am going to disagree. Using the word “phobic” implies some very negative connotations that go way beyond not being comfortable having sex with someone.

While casual sex may be the initial driver, what if having children was a longer term goal hoped for as a result of the relationship becoming serious.

IMHO we are too quick to label someone as being “xxxxphobic” always assuming the worst intentions.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?"

No, it's not transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?

I stand by what I said from the start, if the ONLY reason they are changing their mind is because of the persons trans status, then that is transphobic. If something else is playing into it then I cannot answer wholeheartedly.

In the example you give too, almost every trans person (i say almost as I don't know the mind of everyone, but the ones I have spoken on this subject agree) I have met may feel disappointed, but would not want to bring the person to task, or admonish them for it. It is a part of life, just like any other rejection.

I also said that no-one should sleep with someone they don't want to.

I am going to disagree. Using the word “phobic” implies some very negative connotations that go way beyond not being comfortable having sex with someone.

While casual sex may be the initial driver, what if having children was a longer term goal hoped for as a result of the relationship becoming serious.

IMHO we are too quick to label someone as being “xxxxphobic” always assuming the worst intentions."

I'll address the example you put in your post. Not being able to have children is not exclusively about them being trans, it is about wanting something out of life and deciding what your priorities are. And deciding that having kids is a higher priority is just as valid if you are dating a trans person or a cis person who cannot have kids.

It is bringing another factor into the conversation. My statement was about transness being the only factor.

I never proposed calling people out for not wanting to sleep with Trans people either. I merely commented as to whether a very specific thing counted as transphobia, nothing more.

And you are right calling people phobic is serious and you should only do it if they have shown genuinely harmful behaviour. But again that is not the same as saying a specific scenario is transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone fancies someone, dates them but then changes their mind based on discovering the person is Trans then yes it is transphobic.

If the being trans is not the reason the person does not want to sleep with them or date them, then no it isn't transphobic.

The gender critical have published a lot of lies and stretched a lot of truths in this area, to suite their narrative.

Why someone makes the decision is what matters, not the decision itself.

But what if a lesbian woman dated someone she thought was also a woman only to discover when she went to sleep with them that they're a pre op trans woman and still have a penis. Surely that wouldn't be transphobic for the lesbian woman to say she doesn't want to date someone with a penis?"

Good question but I'm pretty sure a lesbian or a straight woman could spot a transwomen very easily and as such would know what they were getting themselves into.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately it appears a number of us will be accused of transphobia or racism due to who don’t wish to be intimate with. You can throw in homophobia in there as well as some people won’t be intimate with someone of the same sex. Having said that, I see it as a small price to pay as you can only be attracted to those you are attracted to. That attraction is in-built. I have no desire to be intimate with someone of the same sex. I have no desire to be intimate with someone who has the same genitalia as me. I have no desire to be intimate with those not from Anglo-Saxon stock. My body, my choice. If someone chose not to be intimate with me due to my ethnicity, gender, etc; I would completely support their choice and would go so far as avoiding labelling their choice. Their body, their choice.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also, worth pointing out that lesbians are same SEX attracted. Not same gender attracted.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?

I stand by what I said from the start, if the ONLY reason they are changing their mind is because of the persons trans status, then that is transphobic. If something else is playing into it then I cannot answer wholeheartedly.

In the example you give too, almost every trans person (i say almost as I don't know the mind of everyone, but the ones I have spoken on this subject agree) I have met may feel disappointed, but would not want to bring the person to task, or admonish them for it. It is a part of life, just like any other rejection.

I also said that no-one should sleep with someone they don't want to.

I am going to disagree. Using the word “phobic” implies some very negative connotations that go way beyond not being comfortable having sex with someone.

While casual sex may be the initial driver, what if having children was a longer term goal hoped for as a result of the relationship becoming serious.

IMHO we are too quick to label someone as being “xxxxphobic” always assuming the worst intentions.

I'll address the example you put in your post. Not being able to have children is not exclusively about them being trans, it is about wanting something out of life and deciding what your priorities are. And deciding that having kids is a higher priority is just as valid if you are dating a trans person or a cis person who cannot have kids.

It is bringing another factor into the conversation. My statement was about transness being the only factor.

I never proposed calling people out for not wanting to sleep with Trans people either. I merely commented as to whether a very specific thing counted as transphobia, nothing more.

And you are right calling people phobic is serious and you should only do it if they have shown genuinely harmful behaviour. But again that is not the same as saying a specific scenario is transphobic."

Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow this thread ran and ran!

A question...

If a cis straight male meets a woman and finds her attractive. Starts dating. After an appropriate amount of time it feels like sex is going to happen and then the woman decides she needs to let the male know something about her. She was born a man, is still transitioning and still has a penis. If the male then says sorry not for me (but is perfectly nice and respectful about it) does that make him transphobic? If so why?

I stand by what I said from the start, if the ONLY reason they are changing their mind is because of the persons trans status, then that is transphobic. If something else is playing into it then I cannot answer wholeheartedly.

In the example you give too, almost every trans person (i say almost as I don't know the mind of everyone, but the ones I have spoken on this subject agree) I have met may feel disappointed, but would not want to bring the person to task, or admonish them for it. It is a part of life, just like any other rejection.

I also said that no-one should sleep with someone they don't want to.

I am going to disagree. Using the word “phobic” implies some very negative connotations that go way beyond not being comfortable having sex with someone.

While casual sex may be the initial driver, what if having children was a longer term goal hoped for as a result of the relationship becoming serious.

IMHO we are too quick to label someone as being “xxxxphobic” always assuming the worst intentions.

I'll address the example you put in your post. Not being able to have children is not exclusively about them being trans, it is about wanting something out of life and deciding what your priorities are. And deciding that having kids is a higher priority is just as valid if you are dating a trans person or a cis person who cannot have kids.

It is bringing another factor into the conversation. My statement was about transness being the only factor.

I never proposed calling people out for not wanting to sleep with Trans people either. I merely commented as to whether a very specific thing counted as transphobia, nothing more.

And you are right calling people phobic is serious and you should only do it if they have shown genuinely harmful behaviour. But again that is not the same as saying a specific scenario is transphobic.

Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

"

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

"

You claimed to disagree then spent 3 paragraphs agreeing with what I said...

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

TERF bait thread

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"TERF bait thread"

All Trans related threads on this forum I have seen have been unfortunately...

Even when someone tried to have a Trans Positive thread.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner."

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory."

I don't think questioning you makes someone a TERF. I'm a feminist and proud of that.

I'm genuinely interested in learning more about trans people, I've nursed a few post-surgery.

When people say they've always felt female or feminine I'm never sure what that actually means, when people say they like makeup or dressing up, being a woman is much more than that. I welcome some information but, not from people who then show misogyny by trying to shut us up.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory."

Like you didn't misuse science and fall flat on your face

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory.

Like you didn't misuse science and fall flat on your face "

No, I didn't.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory."
I agree that this approach is used. However it's the small percentages that make the generic XX = female presenting at birth and xy = male presenting. We are trying to square off the exceptions with the general rule.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory.I agree that this approach is used. However it's the small percentages that make the generic XX = female presenting at birth and xy = male presenting. We are trying to square off the exceptions with the general rule.

"

The Gender Critical also tend to think the exceptions are far rarer than they actually are, by many powers.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory.

I don't think questioning you makes someone a TERF. I'm a feminist and proud of that.

I'm genuinely interested in learning more about trans people, I've nursed a few post-surgery.

When people say they've always felt female or feminine I'm never sure what that actually means, when people say they like makeup or dressing up, being a woman is much more than that. I welcome some information but, not from people who then show misogyny by trying to shut us up."

There are plenty of books by trans people about their experience, if you're genuinely interested. Their feelings tend to be a lot deeper than just clothes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner.

The vast vast vast vast majority of things they use in arguments are either entirely made up, based on incorrect science or taking the 0.001% example as the standard.

TERFs are a Logical Fallacy factory.

I don't think questioning you makes someone a TERF. I'm a feminist and proud of that.

I'm genuinely interested in learning more about trans people, I've nursed a few post-surgery.

When people say they've always felt female or feminine I'm never sure what that actually means, when people say they like makeup or dressing up, being a woman is much more than that. I welcome some information but, not from people who then show misogyny by trying to shut us up.

There are plenty of books by trans people about their experience, if you're genuinely interested. Their feelings tend to be a lot deeper than just clothes. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

You claimed to disagree then spent 3 paragraphs agreeing with what I said..."

I really do not think I did!

My key point (possibly lost) is that someone won’t simply base their decision on someone being trans but on the implications/consequences of the person being trans. I do not consider that transphobic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

You claimed to disagree then spent 3 paragraphs agreeing with what I said...

I really do not think I did!

My key point (possibly lost) is that someone won’t simply base their decision on someone being trans but on the implications/consequences of the person being trans. I do not consider that transphobic."

and my point was that it was only transphobic if the ONLY factor was their trans status. It is the same point from a different angle as far as I can tell.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"I find it quite funny when transphobes make up the scenario where a trans man or woman dates a cisgendered person and 'tricks' them.

I have trans friends and they are pretty up front on dating sites that they are trans. Given the hate trans people are getting recently, and how mainstream and accetable it is becoming (oh think of the children, the poor cis women!), they're pretty fucking aware that they need to be up front. They seek men and women who are fine with having a trans partner."

Not going to re-read whole profile but has anyone done that?

I used a scenario to illustrate a point. That scenario was nothing to do with tricking anyone but rather the moment any relationship might reach when something may need to be discussed in relation to their physicality.

The scenario could equally apply to a cis woman who has had a mastectomy or hysterectomy or perhaps any person who has had a limb replaced. In other words there is something about the person that is not quite what might be expected or considered the “norm” by their new sexual partner.

While one would hope anyone in that position feels sufficiently confident and empowered to own it, I am sure many will have some level of anxiety related to it. I think that is a natural human emotion to have.

I also think it is a sad state of affairs that instead of all trying to have an open and informed discussion about such a complex situation, some people insist on becoming tribalist and confrontational and appear to actively seek out conflict.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

You claimed to disagree then spent 3 paragraphs agreeing with what I said...

I really do not think I did!

My key point (possibly lost) is that someone won’t simply base their decision on someone being trans but on the implications/consequences of the person being trans. I do not consider that transphobic.

and my point was that it was only transphobic if the ONLY factor was their trans status. It is the same point from a different angle as far as I can tell."

Fair enough but my challenge on that was/is that it isn’t that simplistic. It is the things that being trans means that creates the tension influencing the decision, not simply being trans in and of itself. It isn’t just semantics.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"Before I start, and just to be clear, I am not taking issue with you as a person but I do not agree with your argument.

Further up this thread you (I think it was you but not re-reading whole thread) made a point about things not being binary. This same argument applies to a decision not to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person.

You say your point was that if the ONLY reason someone did not want to pursue a sexual relationship with a trans person is because they are trans and that would therefore be transphobic. I disagree because it isn’t that simple. No decision will be based on the single aspect that the person is trans, the decision will be based on multiple factors that are a consequence of being trans.

These “consequences” will be different depending on both the cis person making the decision AND where on the transition journey the trans person is. The trans person still having their birth genitalia will be a factor for many (and a turn on for some clearly as the hot photos section will evidence), the trans person not being able to procreate will also be a factor for those with longer term relationship aims.

I know you have acknowledges this, but calling anyone “phobic” for their relationship or sexual practice choices is very wrong in my opinion. It at very least implies a lack of tolerance or acceptance of difference or otherness to oneself. However, the word “phobic” has increasingly more serious connotations of an actual desire to restrict or even exclude those who are different from us from our society. It is therefore highly offensive to assign the word “phobic” to another individual for anything other than these more serious traits. It marginalises sensible discussion and creates increasing barriers to acceptance.

It is not transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans person because they are trans due to the multiple factors meant/affected by being trans.

It is transphobic to be abusive towards trans people or to deny them their right to identify and to transition.

You claimed to disagree then spent 3 paragraphs agreeing with what I said...

I really do not think I did!

My key point (possibly lost) is that someone won’t simply base their decision on someone being trans but on the implications/consequences of the person being trans. I do not consider that transphobic.

and my point was that it was only transphobic if the ONLY factor was their trans status. It is the same point from a different angle as far as I can tell.

Fair enough but my challenge on that was/is that it isn’t that simplistic. It is the things that being trans means that creates the tension influencing the decision, not simply being trans in and of itself. It isn’t just semantics."

And I don't disagree. I was trying to point out the very specific and constrained example where it was transphobic.

You are right, it isn't that simple. Why I haven't advocated calling anyone transphobic because they aren't doing it.

The OP question is designed to create friction, because it takes a scenario that is much more complicated than the question appears.

I tried to show the simplistic example where the answer would be yes. And some (not including you with this) took that as a broad sweeping statement when it was the opposite.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So in teh original example, a lesbian meets a girl, gets on, is attracted.

Then finds out she has a penis.

That's a dealbreaker

Is that transphobic?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ity_BoyMan
over a year ago

London


"So in teh original example, a lesbian meets a girl, gets on, is attracted.

Then finds out she has a penis.

That's a dealbreaker

Is that transphobic?

"

It's a bad hypothetical question which paints a false picture that Trans women are predatory and out there to trick cis women.

As someone mentioned previously it's very unlikely to happen as Trans people are usually up front about themselves to potential partners. The cis woman would know they are trans before they "get on".

It's not transphobic for anyone to prefer a cis partner.

Certain bits of the media and certain people want you to think that though, to make *you* feel like you're the victim and you should feel bad for not wanting to sleep with a trans person

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

[Removed by poster at 17/07/22 18:07:34]

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"So in teh original example, a lesbian meets a girl, gets on, is attracted.

Then finds out she has a penis.

That's a dealbreaker

Is that transphobic?

"

Short answer No

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *osephSamuel90 OP   Man
over a year ago

Warfield


"So in teh original example, a lesbian meets a girl, gets on, is attracted.

Then finds out she has a penis.

That's a dealbreaker

Is that transphobic?

It's a bad hypothetical question which paints a false picture that Trans women are predatory and out there to trick cis women.

As someone mentioned previously it's very unlikely to happen as Trans people are usually up front about themselves to potential partners. The cis woman would know they are trans before they "get on".

It's not transphobic for anyone to prefer a cis partner.

Certain bits of the media and certain people want you to think that though, to make *you* feel like you're the victim and you should feel bad for not wanting to sleep with a trans person "

How is that in any way what my hypothetical question was doing? Just asked a question out of curiosity. I didn't say they were going round falling lesbians

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A good typical example of transphobia is verbally abusing a trans person you don't know just because they're trans. Physically attacking someone, just because they are trans is another good example.

However, it is not transphobic to not want to get sexual with a trans person. It doesn't matter what the reason is, be it because they have a penis or some other characteristic you don't find attractive.

Accusing a person of any phobia if they don't engage in sexual activity is coercive, and should be abhorred.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

If nothing else this thread has made a good tool for who to block

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

I've been avoiding this thread. However I think it's about time to call time on the original premise as "shit that doesn't happen in real life". Only in the fever dreams of a bunch of pretty fucking horrible people who have dedicated their lives to drumming up hatred towards folk that they know nothing about and who have no impact upon their lives whatsoever.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)


"I've been avoiding this thread. However I think it's about time to call time on the original premise as "shit that doesn't happen in real life". Only in the fever dreams of a bunch of pretty fucking horrible people who have dedicated their lives to drumming up hatred towards folk that they know nothing about and who have no impact upon their lives whatsoever."

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've been avoiding this thread. However I think it's about time to call time on the original premise as "shit that doesn't happen in real life". Only in the fever dreams of a bunch of pretty fucking horrible people who have dedicated their lives to drumming up hatred towards folk that they know nothing about and who have no impact upon their lives whatsoever."

So any lesbian who states she has faced criticism for not wanting to be sexually intimate with transwoman is automatically to be considered a liar?

That is just as much of a generalisation as the suggestion that all transwomen pose a threat to women in single sex spaces.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've been avoiding this thread. However I think it's about time to call time on the original premise as "shit that doesn't happen in real life". Only in the fever dreams of a bunch of pretty fucking horrible people who have dedicated their lives to drumming up hatred towards folk that they know nothing about and who have no impact upon their lives whatsoever.

So any lesbian who states she has faced criticism for not wanting to be sexually intimate with transwoman is automatically to be considered a liar?

That is just as much of a generalisation as the suggestion that all transwomen pose a threat to women in single sex spaces."

That's not what polly said.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So in teh original example, a lesbian meets a girl, gets on, is attracted.

Then finds out she has a penis.

That's a dealbreaker

Is that transphobic?

It's a bad hypothetical question which paints a false picture that Trans women are predatory and out there to trick cis women.

As someone mentioned previously it's very unlikely to happen as Trans people are usually up front about themselves to potential partners. The cis woman would know they are trans before they "get on".

It's not transphobic for anyone to prefer a cis partner.

Certain bits of the media and certain people want you to think that though, to make *you* feel like you're the victim and you should feel bad for not wanting to sleep with a trans person

How is that in any way what my hypothetical question was doing? Just asked a question out of curiosity. I didn't say they were going round falling lesbians"
my observation is there are different groups trying to find niche corners to pkay as a gotcha card.

While your question may have been genuine (we can only take your word), that you decided to use lesbians rather than straight men, may have raised concerns, as gotchas tend to often seek to put LGB v T v feminists.

The trouble from my view is that it's the niche cases you really get an understanding of the challenges. The biology we learn at school is presented as abisoute fact, rather than a broad rule of thumb that works almost always. But not 100pc always.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inkywife1981Couple
over a year ago

A town near you

If a man explains something to a woman he is manslplaining to her.

If a transperson explains something to a woman are they transplaining?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heHornyWandererMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia."

Wait what?,Thier own safety?,what is going on?

same-sex attracted lesbians?,thought they were just lesbians otherwise they'd be Bi right?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?"

I find this all very confusing I find it easier to refer to these men as the mentally ill!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heHornyWandererMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

I find this all very confusing I find it easier to refer to these men as the mentally ill!"

Think it only became confusing to everyone when “trans” became an umbrella term to include transsexuals and transvestites as one and the same.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia."

Surely a lesbian is a gay woman so same sex would be another woman ?

Therefore same sex attracted lesbians would be just lesbians then

So why would they need removing from a gay parade ?

Talk about confused

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heHornyWandererMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

Surely a lesbian is a gay woman so same sex would be another woman ?

Therefore same sex attracted lesbians would be just lesbians then

So why would they need removing from a gay parade ?

Talk about confused "

The ladies were told by the cops that their group was causing confrontation with other parade-goers. Why pride parade participants would have a problem with a “Lesbians don’t like penises” banner is beyond me…

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ity_BoyMan
over a year ago

London


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia."

What actually happened:

They were a group of transphobes who tried to block the parade. They were removed by the police. They blocked the parade and were chanting hateful slogans.

Why are people purposefully trying to paint a different picture of what happened?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ity_BoyMan
over a year ago

London


"Lesbians are obviously attracted to women. But some trans woman will still have male genitalia and won't have gone through hormone therapy so would still be masculine. Is it then transphobic for lesbians to say they won't date a trans woman with a penis? Surely the main thing of being lesbian is attraction to people with vaginas and if that trans woman doesn't match that criteria it's a completely valid reason to reject them?

I find this all very confusing I find it easier to refer to these men as the mentally ill!"

Ah the double wammy:

Deadnaming trans women, and calling them "mentally ill"

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia."

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heHornyWandererMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo. "

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians "

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now."

I suspect the LGBT community may disagree with you strongly.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now."

I didn't even need to look at who posted this stupid comment.

I was scrolling from the bottom up.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now."

Or time for each of the groups to have their own specific events. That way, actual lesbians, you know.....the old fashioned kind, could march, protest and wave whatever banners they wanted without hassle.

But I doubt they would even be allowed to have that.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now.

I didn't even need to look at who posted this stupid comment.

I was scrolling from the bottom up."

Why ‘stupid’? What purpose do they serve now?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now.

I suspect the LGBT community may disagree with you strongly."

I’m sure they will but I suspect they have lost sight of the original purpose

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Or time for each of the groups to have their own specific events. That way, actual lesbians, you know.....the old fashioned kind, could march, protest and wave whatever banners they wanted without hassle."

I'm sure that lesbians would appreciate the get-together, and the nice walk through town, but what would they have to actually protest about?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Or time for each of the groups to have their own specific events. That way, actual lesbians, you know.....the old fashioned kind, could march, protest and wave whatever banners they wanted without hassle.

I'm sure that lesbians would appreciate the get-together, and the nice walk through town, but what would they have to actually protest about?"

Look at the footage of the lesbians being removed from the Pride March in Wales.

And also look at the subject title of this thread.

If it was being suggested that men who identify as women could then identify their way into your social groups, dating scene, clubs etc, I think you'd be pretty fucking angry too.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Time perhaps for pride marches / pride events to stop? They serve no point now.

Or time for each of the groups to have their own specific events. That way, actual lesbians, you know.....the old fashioned kind, could march, protest and wave whatever banners they wanted without hassle.

But I doubt they would even be allowed to have that."

Imagine the protests against them. I suspect those protests would be allowed to stay as well.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians "

Pride cymru is more than just L and G. T form part of the communities they campaign for.

If some people don't like that, then regardless of their sexual orientation, I don't see why they would attend the march.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *heHornyWandererMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Pride cymru is more than just L and G. T form part of the communities they campaign for.

If some people don't like that, then regardless of their sexual orientation, I don't see why they would attend the march.

"

You forgot to mention the B, just to point out.

Reappropriation easily comes to mind in regards to your second point.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just read a group of same-sex attracted lesbians have been removed from Cardiff pride “for their own safety”.

Can easily imagine what “phobia” they’re being accused of, when in actual fact we all know these ladies will be the actual victims of another phobia.

They weren't accused of any phobia in the clip they uploaded.

What phobia are they victims of ?

You can be against T being added to LGBT (I can see there being a position here one can take, without being a phobe)

If you take that protest to a LGBT rally, you will be the ones being confrontational.

The idea that you can't move people on just because they are lesbians is odd. The copper handled it well imo.

Pride is a literal protest march in favour of gay men and woman, the latter being lesbians

Pride cymru is more than just L and G. T form part of the communities they campaign for.

If some people don't like that, then regardless of their sexual orientation, I don't see why they would attend the march.

You forgot to mention the B, just to point out.

Reappropriation easily comes to mind in regards to your second point."
I didn't mention B or + as you mentioned g and lnand this is about t.

I don't follow your second point. Can you clarify ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 
 

By *ity_BoyMan
over a year ago

London


"Or time for each of the groups to have their own specific events. That way, actual lesbians, you know.....the old fashioned kind, could march, protest and wave whatever banners they wanted without hassle.

I'm sure that lesbians would appreciate the get-together, and the nice walk through town, but what would they have to actually protest about?

Look at the footage of the lesbians being removed from the Pride March in Wales.

And also look at the subject title of this thread.

If it was being suggested that men who identify as women could then identify their way into your social groups, dating scene, clubs etc, I think you'd be pretty fucking angry too.

"

Again, why are making out like the women who got removed are victims?

They were preventing the parade from moving and decided to shout and display transphobic slogans.

TERFs like to make out like they're victims.

You're just making up strawman arguments to prove a point.

How does a trans woman 'identify' their way into a social group? Are social groups segregated by gender now? What difference does it make if someone is trans on friendship?

Dating scene - I've never come across a trans woman who has tried to 'trick' me. On the very rare occasion I've come across a trans woman on Tinder Bumble etc they *always* include they're trans in their profile. I've lesbian friends who say the same.

Clubs - Given how trans people are treated, I very much doubt trans people would 'identify' their way into a club. They will more likely attend clubs and events that are LGBT friendly.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
back to top