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"You mean in your lifetime or the UK has never had one? Cos Winston Churchill did pretty well during World War 2 and Clement Atlee was pretty good at helping rebuild post-war Britain. Also Tony Blair was actually pretty decent, if you put aside the Iraq war. But then I guess that is a massive blot on his record" You can't just 'put aside the Iraq war' | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things " So good at negotiating that he is willing to break international law that he signed upto because he doesnt like the deal he negotiated. Yeah, excellent negotiating skills  | |||
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"You mean in your lifetime or the UK has never had one? Cos Winston Churchill did pretty well during World War 2 and Clement Atlee was pretty good at helping rebuild post-war Britain. Also Tony Blair was actually pretty decent, if you put aside the Iraq war. But then I guess that is a massive blot on his record You can't just 'put aside the Iraq war' " Na obviously overrides the good he did in terms of his legacy. But on a domestic level he was actually really successful. Although he did do an absolute hospital pass to Gordon Brown when he stepped down as PM probably knowing full well shit was about to hit the fan | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things " I'm pretty sure that he wasn't great at negotiating brexit given the lack of any tangible benefits, the damage it has caused to the economy and the mess that is Northern Ireland... And the deal was worse than May's | |||
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"What about the guy that brought in the NHS" That was Clement Atlee | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things I'm pretty sure that he wasn't great at negotiating brexit given the lack of any tangible benefits, the damage it has caused to the economy and the mess that is Northern Ireland... And the deal was worse than May's" Brexit was going to be shite regardless. I voted to stay. I just personally think others would have more than likely done far worse… on the other hand some may have been better. I guess we will never really know though as we are stuck with what we got | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things " This. The problem with electing a person is that people are flawed. They will fuck things up, knowingly or otherwise. The same goes for parties….. all the praying for an opposition party to fly in and save us from the terrible incumbent is a mantra replayed a few years later when it turns they can’t tell their ass from their elbow either and have just cocked up a different set of things. Such is the spectrum of politics…..lean towards either end and you’ll be 50% great, 50% awful. Sit in the middle and you’ll be 100% average. Go either extreme and you’ll be an unmitigated clusterfuck. | |||
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"David Cameron is the only Conservative PM in over 40 years who hasn't had a vote of no confidence leading to his/her resignation. " True, but he was the PM that saw an explosion of food banks due to done austerity agenda. He told the public that he would pay off the deficit by 2018, only for it to triple by that time. Oh, and then he caved into the far right tories and other politicians to by allowing the brexit referendum, only to quit when he lost. Man was an insidious cunt. | |||
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"David Cameron is the only Conservative PM in over 40 years who hasn't had a vote of no confidence leading to his/her resignation. True, but he was the PM that saw an explosion of food banks due to ruinous austerity agenda. He told the public that he would pay off the deficit by 2018, only for it to triple by that time. Oh, and then he caved into the far right tories and other politicians to by allowing the brexit referendum, only to quit when he lost. Man was an insidious cunt." | |||
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" Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. " How on earth did you come to that conclusion ? | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things I'm pretty sure that he wasn't great at negotiating brexit given the lack of any tangible benefits, the damage it has caused to the economy and the mess that is Northern Ireland... And the deal was worse than May's Brexit was going to be shite regardless. I voted to stay. I just personally think others would have more than likely done far worse… on the other hand some may have been better. I guess we will never really know though as we are stuck with what we got" How could anyone have done worse than a deal that is arguably as bad as leaving with no deal and that those that negotiated it want to ignore or renegotiate in places as it is so bad. Literally not one sector has benefited from it. Brexit was built on Johnsons lies and failed due to his incompetence | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things I'm pretty sure that he wasn't great at negotiating brexit given the lack of any tangible benefits, the damage it has caused to the economy and the mess that is Northern Ireland... And the deal was worse than May's Brexit was going to be shite regardless. I voted to stay. I just personally think others would have more than likely done far worse… on the other hand some may have been better. I guess we will never really know though as we are stuck with what we got How could anyone have done worse than a deal that is arguably as bad as leaving with no deal and that those that negotiated it want to ignore or renegotiate in places as it is so bad. Literally not one sector has benefited from it. Brexit was built on Johnsons lies and failed due to his incompetence " You see that but where I said others could have done better? Fucking hell, I’m not sticking up for him. I also said I voted to stay in the EU. We were never going to win regardless were we. | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things So good at negotiating that he is willing to break international law that he signed upto because he doesnt like the deal he negotiated. Yeah, excellent negotiating skills "This.. Plus the OBR are saying the cost per annum in the damage to the economy is 100 billion, ten times what it cost to be in the EU.. Crops left to rot in fields, the impact on the fishing industry are staggering and we have about 1.3 million jobs unfilled which is a further loss to the Exchequer.. Boris deal was a bag of bollocks.. | |||
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"I think that’s over generalising. We’ve never had a prime minister that’s good at everything. They will all have their strengths and weaknesses. Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. Unfortunately his weakness was lying and getting caught out. Blair.. great at many things but Iraq scuppered him. I don’t think they have all been turd at everything.. just some things " I don't see him as being good at negotiating Brexit. He was good at getting ppl to rally behind him and in winning votes. (see Brexit and 2019). He was good at the political Whitehall games. However I don't see his brexit as one he negotiated better than May. But it's a deal May couldn't have got thri parliament with the weak position she painted herself into. Boris to his credit had an amazingly strong position. It just goes to show how bad he fucked up that he couldn't last three years with such a huge majority. That is a fall from grace and a half. | |||
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"Some people will say early Thatcher was great. " As someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum I loathed her policies. But as a politician, as a Prime Minister, when you look at the last 12 years, its difficult not to respect her. | |||
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"Some people will say early Thatcher was great. As someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum I loathed her policies. But as a politician, as a Prime Minister, when you look at the last 12 years, its difficult not to respect her. " Ditto and agree, equally when people rightly criticise Blair on the specific issue of the Iraq war but he won three general elections and only by the middle ground abandoning the Tories to put new labour in power.. As a red I would say the same about Ferguson, might not have liked some of what he did but have to respect his record.. | |||
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"Is Johnson the worst we have ever had?" Honestly theres some serious opposition for that claim. But I cannot think of any off the top of my head that are worse. | |||
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"Is Johnson the worst we have ever had?" In the last 100years? , definitely | |||
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"David Cameron is the only Conservative PM in over 40 years who hasn't had a vote of no confidence leading to his/her resignation. " And yet he was the first Conservative candidate that made me stop voting conservative since I first voted in the early 1980’s. He came across as a Spiv. | |||
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" Boris for example, he was good at negotiating brexit. May couldn’t do it but he did. " Don't fall for the spin. All Johnson did was take May's deal and replace the "backstop" on Northern Ireland with a customs border down the Irish sea. Which has its own problems. It wasn't some masterful bit of negotiation. | |||
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"Is Johnson the worst we have ever had?" By a stretch yes.. | |||
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"This country felt a much better place under Blair than under Johnson. But then there's Iraq. That tainted him - and rightly so - forever." The country was a much better place under Tony Blair. He all but eradicated homelessness and was the last PM to operate a fiscal credit. He made a (big) mistake with Iraq, but there is not a single person n this forum or in the country at large that hasn’t fucked up at work over a decade or so. I personally thought that the John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown era’s were our best times. Unfortunately the banking crisis ended all that and populists looked for scapegoats. I mean, it’s not like there isn’t historical precedent to see what happened after 2008. | |||
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"This country felt a much better place under Blair than under Johnson. But then there's Iraq. That tainted him - and rightly so - forever. The country was a much better place under Tony Blair. He all but eradicated homelessness and was the last PM to operate a fiscal credit. He made a (big) mistake with Iraq, but there is not a single person n this forum or in the country at large that hasn’t fucked up at work over a decade or so. I personally thought that the John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown era’s were our best times. Unfortunately the banking crisis ended all that and populists looked for scapegoats. I mean, it’s not like there isn’t historical precedent to see what happened after 2008." The homeless bit is always overlooked. Homelessness is awful. Blair did a v good job with that. Now, after over a decade of Tories in action, homelessness has ballooned. Another thing that is often overlooked on Iraq: Blair should never have dragged us into it. But the Tories backed him to the hilt on that. If they were in power then, they would have dived in, guns blazing, the 1st chance they got. | |||
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"This country felt a much better place under Blair than under Johnson. But then there's Iraq. That tainted him - and rightly so - forever. The country was a much better place under Tony Blair. He all but eradicated homelessness and was the last PM to operate a fiscal credit. He made a (big) mistake with Iraq, but there is not a single person n this forum or in the country at large that hasn’t fucked up at work over a decade or so. I personally thought that the John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown era’s were our best times. Unfortunately the banking crisis ended all that and populists looked for scapegoats. I mean, it’s not like there isn’t historical precedent to see what happened after 2008. The homeless bit is always overlooked. Homelessness is awful. Blair did a v good job with that. Now, after over a decade of Tories in action, homelessness has ballooned. Another thing that is often overlooked on Iraq: Blair should never have dragged us into it. But the Tories backed him to the hilt on that. If they were in power then, they would have dived in, guns blazing, the 1st chance they got." This is so true, and I always thought Iraq was a result of the USA feeding Blair a load of false information….after all Saddam used to be our man back in the day and loved buying British weapons systems. Saddam was a monster but it does make you question, given that Iran was number 1 enemy of the west at the time, why did the USA want to topple him? | |||
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"This country felt a much better place under Blair than under Johnson. But then there's Iraq. That tainted him - and rightly so - forever. The country was a much better place under Tony Blair. He all but eradicated homelessness and was the last PM to operate a fiscal credit. He made a (big) mistake with Iraq, but there is not a single person n this forum or in the country at large that hasn’t fucked up at work over a decade or so. I personally thought that the John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown era’s were our best times. Unfortunately the banking crisis ended all that and populists looked for scapegoats. I mean, it’s not like there isn’t historical precedent to see what happened after 2008. The homeless bit is always overlooked. Homelessness is awful. Blair did a v good job with that. Now, after over a decade of Tories in action, homelessness has ballooned. Another thing that is often overlooked on Iraq: Blair should never have dragged us into it. But the Tories backed him to the hilt on that. If they were in power then, they would have dived in, guns blazing, the 1st chance they got. This is so true, and I always thought Iraq was a result of the USA feeding Blair a load of false information….after all Saddam used to be our man back in the day and loved buying British weapons systems. Saddam was a monster but it does make you question, given that Iran was number 1 enemy of the west at the time, why did the USA want to topple him? " Assume that was rhetorical? All about gaining control over the oil. Nothing more. Nothing less. The interest in Afghanistan? A gas pipeline from Russia through Afghanistan and Pakistan. Which companies were in the running for the contracts? Which politicians and their families were involved in those companies? Always follow the money. | |||
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"This country felt a much better place under Blair than under Johnson. But then there's Iraq. That tainted him - and rightly so - forever. The country was a much better place under Tony Blair. He all but eradicated homelessness and was the last PM to operate a fiscal credit. He made a (big) mistake with Iraq, but there is not a single person n this forum or in the country at large that hasn’t fucked up at work over a decade or so. I personally thought that the John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown era’s were our best times. Unfortunately the banking crisis ended all that and populists looked for scapegoats. I mean, it’s not like there isn’t historical precedent to see what happened after 2008. The homeless bit is always overlooked. Homelessness is awful. Blair did a v good job with that. Now, after over a decade of Tories in action, homelessness has ballooned. Another thing that is often overlooked on Iraq: Blair should never have dragged us into it. But the Tories backed him to the hilt on that. If they were in power then, they would have dived in, guns blazing, the 1st chance they got. This is so true, and I always thought Iraq was a result of the USA feeding Blair a load of false information….after all Saddam used to be our man back in the day and loved buying British weapons systems. Saddam was a monster but it does make you question, given that Iran was number 1 enemy of the west at the time, why did the USA want to topple him? " Project for the new American century? | |||
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"You mean in your lifetime or the UK has never had one? Cos Winston Churchill did pretty well during World War 2 and Clement Atlee was pretty good at helping rebuild post-war Britain. Also Tony Blair was actually pretty decent, if you put aside the Iraq war. But then I guess that is a massive blot on his record You can't just 'put aside the Iraq war' " I mean, bar the war crime's he was alright lol | |||
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"You mean in your lifetime or the UK has never had one? Cos Winston Churchill did pretty well during World War 2 and Clement Atlee was pretty good at helping rebuild post-war Britain. Also Tony Blair was actually pretty decent, if you put aside the Iraq war. But then I guess that is a massive blot on his record You can't just 'put aside the Iraq war' I mean, bar the war crime's he was alright lol " what's his war crimes?if he had committed war crimes, wouldn't the security council be sanctioning him? | |||
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"Churchill, Attlee, Thatcher and Blair. None were perfect but they all achieved a great deal whilst doing what is probably the most difficult (and thankless) job in the country." I can say at least two of those also destroyed countless lives. | |||
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"Churchill, Attlee, Thatcher and Blair. None were perfect but they all achieved a great deal whilst doing what is probably the most difficult (and thankless) job in the country. I can say at least two of those also destroyed countless lives." I would suggest 3 May fall into that category. | |||
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"I'm old enough to remember how harold Wilson,was watched by a conservative influenced 'security system ' determined to find fault. Tony Blair was misinformed by security 'gods ' and was basically 'stitched up ',by misinformation from the security system. Every thing he did was with integrity, and because he thought it was the truth. " I have to disagree. He continues to make a living as a middle east expert. Even though he failed. So I doubt his integrity. | |||
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