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UK faces biggest rail strike in 30 years.

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

The biggest rail strikes in three decades are due to start on Monday night, with trains cancelled across geeat britain for much of the week.

The first of three 24 hour walkouts by 40,000 rmt members, including signallers, maintenance and train staff, will start just after midnight on tuesday morning, with only one in five trains running on strike days and halting services altogether in much of northern and south west england, wales and Scotland.

What is the strike about do you think, is it cos of wages and wasnt there already a strike about a week ago or so and what did they achieve on that one?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

It's about workers using the last resort of withdrawing their labour. This is the start as other workers including teachers, nhs workers and others seeing the injustice of those that have alot and those with a little. Disruptive but, what else can they do, the government have not engaged with the union.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

I'd honk my horn. Have at it train people.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

If inflation is to hit 11% later this year and they want an increase to reflect it, then over the next few years when inflation is said to come back into line they'll be well very well paid workers.

There's two sides - it's great to have so many in your corner unionised.

The strike will add to cost pressures of small businesses that are needing people to spend, adding to inflation.

The difference between Rail and teachers, police, fire, nhs (as I understand) is they strike out of time or leave skeleton staff on so the whole system doesn't fail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m totally fucked off with the strikes. I have a daughter that loves trains and she won’t see any.

The bastards!

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.


"It's about workers using the last resort of withdrawing their labour. This is the start as other workers including teachers, nhs workers and others seeing the injustice of those that have alot and those with a little. Disruptive but, what else can they do, the government have not engaged with the union."
Yes, lets hope that there wont be too much disruption for the commuters. I hear that there will be some trains that will operate, trains are limited to one an hour between 7.30am and 6.30pm on major intercity and urban routes

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

get used to it this will go on and on there is no money, commuters are in the same position they cant afford to pay more.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Further to the posts about whether people are within their due rights to strike, when largely we all agreed that we are, there is little more to say.

The government refusal to step in, assisting with negotiations, suggests that they are happy for the public to be cannon fodder, whilst attendion is shifted away from them and their catastrophic situations of recent months. Smoke and mirrors.

Inflation is tipped for 11% shortly, so it's clear that wages should be increased across the board, to reflect the huge cost of living crisis for all. That some people are using their final tool, to strike, is reflective of a situation where the majority of people are not having their needs acknowledged or addressed in this country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If inflation is to hit 11% later this year and they want an increase to reflect it, then over the next few years when inflation is said to come back into line they'll be well very well paid workers.

"

I think that only works if we expect deflation

Given the issues, maybe we do. But I've not seen much discussion that this spike will have a negative cousin to offset it

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Further to the posts about whether people are within their due rights to strike, when largely we all agreed that we are, there is little more to say.

The government refusal to step in, assisting with negotiations, suggests that they are happy for the public to be cannon fodder, whilst attendion is shifted away from them and their catastrophic situations of recent months. Smoke and mirrors.

Inflation is tipped for 11% shortly, so it's clear that wages should be increased across the board, to reflect the huge cost of living crisis for all. That some people are using their final tool, to strike, is reflective of a situation where the majority of people are not having their needs acknowledged or addressed in this country. "
so are you saying that rail fares should rise by 11% ?

Of course people have the right to strike but what about the people who travel by train shouldn't they all gat 11% too to make up for their extra costs?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Further to the posts about whether people are within their due rights to strike, when largely we all agreed that we are, there is little more to say.

The government refusal to step in, assisting with negotiations, suggests that they are happy for the public to be cannon fodder, whilst attendion is shifted away from them and their catastrophic situations of recent months. Smoke and mirrors.

Inflation is tipped for 11% shortly, so it's clear that wages should be increased across the board, to reflect the huge cost of living crisis for all. That some people are using their final tool, to strike, is reflective of a situation where the majority of people are not having their needs acknowledged or addressed in this country. "

What would the governments role be in negotiations?

Reading through the reasons for this strike, it seems to me the central point is the low or average pay for cleaners, caters and the prospect of job cuts.

I'm a little confused reading this, I thought there were many jobs in areas such as cleaning and catering in hospitality that ore being not filled, would it not be easier to try and find a job with a better wage than strike and lose more money?

Would the exodus of those workers force the employers to up the wage to attract workers back?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

Saturday i paid over £150 for 2 return tickets to Twickenham and only got the train because i enjoy a drink with the boys when i go but tbh it would have been much cheaper to drive.The railways are already pricing themselves out of the market without further costs.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years .

The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends?

The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid .

Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan.

Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed .

I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses .

Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more.

No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry.

MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t?

Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years .

The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends?

The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid .

Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan.

Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed .

I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses .

Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more.

No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry.

MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t?

Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer.

"
The cost of living is affecting all Europe Belgium have a national strike today a couple of weeks ago the French hospitals were its not just a UK problem.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

sorry my mistake the french hospital strike was about a shortage of staff and not over the cost of living before i get pulled up over it.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years .

The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends?

The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid .

Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan.

Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed .

I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses .

Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more.

No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry.

MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t?

Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer.

The cost of living is affecting all Europe Belgium have a national strike today a couple of weeks ago the French hospitals were its not just a UK problem. "

I didn’t say it was unique to the U.K. it’s just we are suffering more as we’re starting from a weaker place. Productivity in France is 16% higher per person than here.

We are not in a good place and our economy looks to be going on the wrong direction.

The bankers greed fucked us over and they never paid their share back .

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"sorry my mistake the french hospital strike was about a shortage of staff and not over the cost of living before i get pulled up over it. "

The French are all one union including the police so I’m sure they will be a lot better off individually. No idea if the country can afford it though.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"I would think they will settle for 6-7% with a kicker if inflation stays at 11% for more than two years .

The cost of wages isn’t the total cost of running trains so the fares don’t need to go up 11% . Maybe stop the dividends?

The low paid in the industry have been kept low paid and all the while despite repeated subsidy from government large dividends are continually paid .

Since the financial crisis which impacted this country more than most, this government have been devoid of ideas to re-invigorate our economy or even have a long term plan.

Their saving grace has been cheap imports and low interest rates . Those two savers are now disappearing so the true state of the mess we are in is being exposed .

I’m sure the NHS will be striking soon but if they give a blanket 6% there it will lift all the well paid Directors as well as the nurses .

Maybe it’s time to help the less well paid a bit more.

No dividends if wages don’t stay in line with inflation otherwise it’s wage cuts which are funding others not working in the industry.

MPs pay will have kept up with inflation why is it most of the U.K. workers haven’t?

Property and shares have done very well but workers have paid for the austerity . It has to stop and be shared out fairer.

"

I'm certainly not an economist but I do know that when inflation rises as it is doing now, interest rates begin to rise to encourage people to save more, borrow less and spend less. It cuts demand for products and services, lowering the price and bringing inflation back down.

Paying people more wouldn't promote that to happen, or not as quickly as it could, and it could even see inflation rise further as spending continues.

The world is suffering, even Japan, who hasn't seen a rise in inflation for 20 - 30 years is now facing higher fuel and food prices. I have no idea what the answer is other than the obvious, end the war in Ukraine, hope the next Russian leader is less trigger happy etc. Other than giving out pay rises that as above probably wont help, what would you recommend to be reasonable solutions to these world problems?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass. "

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago

currently travelling down W France

Why do they think they are better deserving than their customers ?

Let them go find better paid employment elsewhere...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?"

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption. "

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

"
Yes it happened in the 70,s a spiralling rise of wages and increased prices they fuel each other.

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

My hat goes more of to those drivers that is keeping the service and economy ticking, even tho it is reduce to a limited service, depending how legit the strike is, it must be a big friction between those who are striking and working there.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

The problems are ingrained and it’s not going to be fixed quickly.

Yes wage rises are normally a trigger for further inflation but ten years of austerity means people do need help.

Inflation may be 11% this year and plummet to 2% next year the problem is the prices are still up at 11% and 2% more but your wages have only gone up 6% .

The problem needs a long term plan for what kind of economy we are going to be.

Lots of claims to be high tech and high wage . Unfortunately to do that you must invest in the fundamentals like education and research. The benefits don’t show for years and probably not during a parliament so politicians don’t like that sort of plan.

The choice is whether we have more government involvement in our economy or not. The tories say no but the lack of government investment after 2008 has stalled any underlying recovery from the crash. Wages have fallen year on year so why does property keep going so much higher? It’s managed to be that way.

My opinion is as I say invest in education but also help the economy by building houses and infrastructure. Lowering the cost of housing would help the vast majority of workers but not the richer elements . It would also lead to further investment from those householders.

Extra train capacity would help freight. Extra motorways would reduce logistics costs. Traffic jams aren’t just annoying they cost industry billions every year. Look at one five mile tail back and calculate how much everyone is being paid to sit there and how much the standing costs are for all those trucks and vans it’s massive.

The present government want market forces and that’s proving to fail now. As our wealth is being given away on manufacturers and investors based abroad. Private investors want profits quicker than the U.K. can give.

Property in London is out of the reach of most workers and give up if your new to the work place.

The money filtering down theory does not work due to human greed.

Our unfair tax system needs updating to spread the burden fairer.

Our wealth is now in the Caribbean or invested in low wage economies around the world as they get better returns.

The dividends paid from our utilities are sent abroad. Our water profits should be re invested here and use our money in our country. The same with electricity.

BP and shell are examples of great U.K. companies constantly shouted out as great assets but they are owned by Americans who drain funds into their offshore accounts so we don’t benefit from the returns only a little remaining tax. Yes lots of jobs I agree but it’s still better if the money stays here. Why doesn’t the U.K. government have a stake in our oil interests? They can’t do it now but even higher tax like Norway would have benefitted us by billions.

The Singapore economy is often quoted as a target for the U.K. read up on that economy and the wealth gap is even bigger than here. jingoism is rife and unless you’re in with the richer quarter you’re earning twenty dollars a day and stuck .

We also need to join the customs union ASAP to cut costs and return to seamless trade.

But the underlying issues are structural not just the negative of Brexit. So that will help but not fix the mess.

It’s not all doom and gloom as we can definitely be better at productivity but we need a government with a long term strategy not one who wants to win today and not worry about tomorrow.

We also need a government not in the pocket of the rich for the tories or China for labour.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

"

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. "
Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid. "

Yes true

It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore,

We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything.

Our system isn’t working .

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid.

Yes true

It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore,

We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything.

Our system isn’t working . "
yeah back to your favourite topic im not in favour of it at all you only had to see the fiasco that happened after the Brexit result when you have a government that cant do anything, how do you think the tory/ lib dem coalition went a few years back was you happy with that?

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid.

Yes true

It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore,

We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything.

Our system isn’t working . yeah back to your favourite topic im not in favour of it at all you only had to see the fiasco that happened after the Brexit result when you have a government that cant do anything, how do you think the tory/ lib dem coalition went a few years back was you happy with that?"

I think the pact of a few years ago yet again didn’t have a long term plan. Cameron and Clegg both had sone good ideas but again vested interests such as the Tory right wing stifled any progress. It was about power not policy.

The old guard needs kicking out and start with the 830 lords .

No money for political parties from anyone. Only government funding based on membership numbers.

Money has too much influence over decisions .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

"
how high will rates have to be hiked, that was feasible in 70's 80's as house prices were much lower, wages were relatively higher 1 income could feed a family back then. There was hardly any credit cards debt back then. We had a trade surplus pre thatcher. National debt was nowhere near where it is now. I don't think the economy has the wiggle room for double digit interest rates to combat double digit inflation.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

how high will rates have to be hiked, that was feasible in 70's 80's as house prices were much lower, wages were relatively higher 1 income could feed a family back then. There was hardly any credit cards debt back then. We had a trade surplus pre thatcher. National debt was nowhere near where it is now. I don't think the economy has the wiggle room for double digit interest rates to combat double digit inflation. "

I agree with this . The situation is very different.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. Definitely putin could not have picked a worse time to start a war (not just for the ukraine but the whole world) as it was coming out of a 2 year shutdown due to covid.

Yes true

It also exposes how integrated we are and cannot survive alone anymore,

We need smart honest government. Maybe reform our electoral system first before we can grow or plan anything.

Our system isn’t working . yeah back to your favourite topic im not in favour of it at all you only had to see the fiasco that happened after the Brexit result when you have a government that cant do anything, how do you think the tory/ lib dem coalition went a few years back was you happy with that?

I think the pact of a few years ago yet again didn’t have a long term plan. Cameron and Clegg both had sone good ideas but again vested interests such as the Tory right wing stifled any progress. It was about power not policy.

The old guard needs kicking out and start with the 830 lords .

No money for political parties from anyone. Only government funding based on membership numbers.

Money has too much influence over decisions . "
I agree on the lords, far to many and its time they went.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there. "

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

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By *ayturners turn hayMan
over a year ago

Wellingborugh

It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere.

As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million .

Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill.

Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology."
well yeah i guess you know best then and what has happened in the past is irrelevant.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology."

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere.

As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million .

Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill.

Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. "

PMSL

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere.

As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million .

Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill.

Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. "

Btw, £120,000 for a head or CEO of huge number of people is peanuts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/06/22 14:15:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it."

I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology."

In balance CPI can be lower than inflation as it doesn’t include interest on loans or mortgages. So its lower than RPI which is more related to BBC what we pay. It is however a good idea to build in something rather than a freeze.

I’d be interested what state pensions are in Belgium though.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Anyone starting to wonder why THIS government are so keen to get laws passed that make protesting completely impotent and pointless?

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it."

The Bank of England only set interest rates or print money basically plus’s a few tinkering tools and in this case those tools are not sufficient. You see it’s not because we are buying too much in this case. Even Tesco have said we’re spending less. So internet rate increases are going to hurt far more than ever before,

It’s the cost of importing goods and production that’s fuelling inflation. Wages have been under inflation for years so there is very little the BoE can do.

The blame is squarely at the feet of government as they have done nothing to boost or direct the economy in Na positive way and just scramble to fill the gaps we have had since the crash, the terrible lack of a plan has been covering up the embedded problem. I also blame Gordon brown for not realing in the banks when he could.

Our economy is not structured to develop in todays fast moving world and too much of our growth had been invested by large property groups and foreign investments. Reece mogg is a good example of where our money goes. Look up his investment portfolios.

We’ve let the rich corner this country’s wealth.

We have a lot of catching up to do but this government are not coming up with a plan.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere.

As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million .

Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill.

Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. "

Always keen to share your sense of humour . Good for you.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day.

"

The bank of England set interest rates and therefore will drive the strategy to bring down inflation.

Let's be realistic, the money spent to keep the country afloat during the pandemic would / has spent most of our savings....

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day.

"

“Pay awards for about 45% of the public sector – including the armed forces, the police, teachers, the Senior Civil Service and the NHS –are decided by Government Ministers and based on the recommendation of eight Pay Review Bodies (PRBs).”

It is funded by HM Treasury.

BoE have nothing to do with it at all.


"Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic."

We are in an unusual situation. Inflation is not being caused by overheated consumer spending so the normal tools of interest rate rises won’t work. THIS inflation is, as later stated, caused by supply chain issues impacted by the pandemic and the war in Ukraine and (for the UK) exacerbated by Brexit.

People aren’t buying more food or using more gas. The price increases are not being caused by consumption.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day.

The bank of England set interest rates and therefore will drive the strategy to bring down inflation.

Let's be realistic, the money spent to keep the country afloat during the pandemic would / has spent most of our savings....

"

I agree with you but they acted on government policy. Furlough was a good idea although billions have been lost or stolen in principal I agreed with it.

The Bank of England do not plan or dictate what direction is taken with the Economy. They handle the cash and tinker with interest . They know they can’t do a lot in this case which is why the increases are so little. The damage done could be worse than the symptoms. Wages can't get lower.

The loss of money is down to selling off our silverware such as utilities and giving too many tax breaks. Free for all market forces are hurting us long term,

The bankers caused the crash the workers paid the price with no wage increases and austerity. The high earning investors and bankers got extra tax breaks on top during austerity. The extra money retained was sent offshore not paid into the U.K. economy.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

The Bank of England only set interest rates or print money basically plus’s a few tinkering tools and in this case those tools are not sufficient. You see it’s not because we are buying too much in this case. Even Tesco have said we’re spending less. So internet rate increases are going to hurt far more than ever before,

It’s the cost of importing goods and production that’s fuelling inflation. Wages have been under inflation for years so there is very little the BoE can do.

The blame is squarely at the feet of government as they have done nothing to boost or direct the economy in Na positive way and just scramble to fill the gaps we have had since the crash, the terrible lack of a plan has been covering up the embedded problem. I also blame Gordon brown for not realing in the banks when he could.

Our economy is not structured to develop in todays fast moving world and too much of our growth had been invested by large property groups and foreign investments. Reece mogg is a good example of where our money goes. Look up his investment portfolios.

We’ve let the rich corner this country’s wealth.

We have a lot of catching up to do but this government are not coming up with a plan.

"

Tesco may see less buying but is it less spending? Are BP and Esso seeing less demand? Are energy suppliers seeing less being spent?

The market on spending is global on items we are spending money on and we are buying against high demands across Europe and Asia, add to that food shortages such as grain and we are hitting all the prime products that kick our inflation northwards.

If you think back to the start of lockdown, the price of fuel dropped as did inflation. One thing I would like to point out, I'm not supporting or discrediting the government here, I'm trying to put the facts in plain sight, without the emotional tie to a political party mudding the waters.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Some interesting stats...

In April 2022, average pay in the private sector was 4.3% higher than in January 2010, after adjusting for inflation.

In the public sector it was 4.3% LOWER.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

The Bank of England only set interest rates or print money basically plus’s a few tinkering tools and in this case those tools are not sufficient. You see it’s not because we are buying too much in this case. Even Tesco have said we’re spending less. So internet rate increases are going to hurt far more than ever before,

It’s the cost of importing goods and production that’s fuelling inflation. Wages have been under inflation for years so there is very little the BoE can do.

The blame is squarely at the feet of government as they have done nothing to boost or direct the economy in Na positive way and just scramble to fill the gaps we have had since the crash, the terrible lack of a plan has been covering up the embedded problem. I also blame Gordon brown for not realing in the banks when he could.

Our economy is not structured to develop in todays fast moving world and too much of our growth had been invested by large property groups and foreign investments. Reece mogg is a good example of where our money goes. Look up his investment portfolios.

We’ve let the rich corner this country’s wealth.

We have a lot of catching up to do but this government are not coming up with a plan.

Tesco may see less buying but is it less spending? Are BP and Esso seeing less demand? Are energy suppliers seeing less being spent?

The market on spending is global on items we are spending money on and we are buying against high demands across Europe and Asia, add to that food shortages such as grain and we are hitting all the prime products that kick our inflation northwards.

If you think back to the start of lockdown, the price of fuel dropped as did inflation. One thing I would like to point out, I'm not supporting or discrediting the government here, I'm trying to put the facts in plain sight, without the emotional tie to a political party mudding the waters. "

In answer to your questions yes. Definitely less spending and I agree that this is more important than Boris / Starmer. We have a critical fundamental issue here and need better leadership in regards to a direction,

I think we are in serious trouble.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry."

It’s running at maximum capacity due to the lack of track time. HS2 will free up freight capacity. Trains will never carry as much as trucks and even if you double capacity it’s still only around 10% of tonnage but a container going from say Liverpool to hull has a tortuous route due to the Victorian low bridges.

If we had invested the dividends into infrastructure then maybe we wouldn’t do many lease trains and invest in the building and maintenance of trains more in the U.K.

It’s ridiculous that we are forty years behind France in high speed trains, Our fare system is also way too expensive,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)"

Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them "

It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh I forgot Remainers. We need to still be furious at them. It's their fault Brexit is shit, innit.

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry.

It’s running at maximum capacity due to the lack of track time. HS2 will free up freight capacity. Trains will never carry as much as trucks and even if you double capacity it’s still only around 10% of tonnage but a container going from say Liverpool to hull has a tortuous route due to the Victorian low bridges.

If we had invested the dividends into infrastructure then maybe we wouldn’t do many lease trains and invest in the building and maintenance of trains more in the U.K.

It’s ridiculous that we are forty years behind France in high speed trains, Our fare system is also way too expensive,

"

Have you every tried to build a major infrastructure project in the UK?

It's not all about investment from the government as there are so many hurdles to jump before the fist brick or railway slab can be layed.

Public hearings can take years, protesters blocking everything.

Anyone remember Swampy when the A12 was extended? He came back to delay works on HS2 as well.

Then there are the people who just don't want money spent on infrastructure. How many people have complained about HS2 just because it does not personally benefit them.

Big infrastructure projects are a no win situation whatever they are for.

The Elizabeth line has been criticised by people up North even though its funded by money in London.

Then even when money is spend on big projects around the country there are the people who deny its even happening because it doesn't suit their narrative.

The country as a whole needs to grow up and stop making everything political.

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)"

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies. "

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)"

It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company.

Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down.

They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all.

What a farce

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue..."

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway."

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

someone,s been listening to labours deflection from the fact that wes streeting had to apologise to his shadow cabinet for being to pro strike and it wasn't a good look for the labour party.

just say the tories want it to go ahead the press will buy that

As usual the labour party sit on the fence wanting one thing but not being honest about it and thinking we are all mugs and not going to see it.

In streeting,s defence i can see why he wants to appeal to the left, he has his eye on the prize if starmer has to fall on his sword and theirs rumours the cabinet are having a whip round to bribe durham police to give him a penalty notice.

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc..."

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

# typo theres.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"We average less than one return train trip a year. It does make us wonder how much essential goods travels by rail as opposed to lorry.

It’s running at maximum capacity due to the lack of track time. HS2 will free up freight capacity. Trains will never carry as much as trucks and even if you double capacity it’s still only around 10% of tonnage but a container going from say Liverpool to hull has a tortuous route due to the Victorian low bridges.

If we had invested the dividends into infrastructure then maybe we wouldn’t do many lease trains and invest in the building and maintenance of trains more in the U.K.

It’s ridiculous that we are forty years behind France in high speed trains, Our fare system is also way too expensive,

Have you every tried to build a major infrastructure project in the UK?

It's not all about investment from the government as there are so many hurdles to jump before the fist brick or railway slab can be layed.

Public hearings can take years, protesters blocking everything.

Anyone remember Swampy when the A12 was extended? He came back to delay works on HS2 as well.

Then there are the people who just don't want money spent on infrastructure. How many people have complained about HS2 just because it does not personally benefit them.

Big infrastructure projects are a no win situation whatever they are for.

The Elizabeth line has been criticised by people up North even though its funded by money in London.

Then even when money is spend on big projects around the country there are the people who deny its even happening because it doesn't suit their narrative.

The country as a whole needs to grow up and stop making everything political."

If the country took the nimby attitude there would be no ports no motorways and definitely no airports. We may as well be in Tudor times.

It’s the governments job to build infrastructure despite opposition.

The economy needs infrastructure and to say it’s not political isn’t right. It is, but it should be bi-partizan. It’s all party’s responsibility to aide growth through building roads etc to help businesses trade. .

London has far more spent per head of tax payers money than any other regions for decades so they have justified complaints . I agree Londoners contributed more to the Elizabeth line though.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company.

Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down.

They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all.

What a farce "

Network rail is state owned so it is partly his responsibility. Also the government subsidise the service operators so he should be front and centre .

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company.

Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down.

They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all.

What a farce

Network rail is state owned so it is partly his responsibility. Also the government subsidise the service operators so he should be front and centre . "
That's what the union would like, to make it about the government and it would be if the railways were nationalized but they are not.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days."

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It’s not the governments place to sort this it’s the company and the unions as it’s a privately owned company.

Lynch is a Marxist who just wants to bring the government down.

They will be bribing the drivers to strike and the tax payer is paying for it all.

What a farce

Network rail is state owned so it is partly his responsibility. Also the government subsidise the service operators so he should be front and centre . That's what the union would like, to make it about the government and it would be if the railways were nationalized but they are not."

It is about pay from the rail companies the government own or subsidise so it’s definitely in their realm.

The rail companies receive huge subsidies and yet dividends are still paid. That’s signed off by your government so it’s ok to give shareholders tax payers money but not the workers.

I think the government are there by design and it’s not the unions choice but the Tory party wanted this messy structure that’s now failing.

How many companies have thrown their franchises back so far? Will they be giving the subsidies back too?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them

It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc..."

Immigrants

The EU

Wokes

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh. "

If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.

Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.

The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.

It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.

Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh.

If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.

Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.

The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.

It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.

Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned."

You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.

The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.

I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.

You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.

How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.

The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them

It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc...

Immigrants

The EU

Wokes

"
on fire with your contributions again today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think bank of England has anything to do with setting public sector pay etc... Also no one voted for the bank of England to run the country. Should that system of independance be revised now the BOE have failed to maintain inflation at 2% since at least 2008. I don't think the situation would be the same who ever we had in power. This government makes a lot of bad decisions. It was only a week ago the chancellor lost 11billion on an interest payment mistake! Our susceptibility to the global impacts are also a product of Government ideology of never investing for a rainy day.

The bank of England set interest rates and therefore will drive the strategy to bring down inflation.

Let's be realistic, the money spent to keep the country afloat during the pandemic would / has spent most of our savings....

"

We can be realistic about the covid measures it is what it is. But not the doubling of the national debt under Osborne. What did we get for that, all the public sector was being cut and I did not see any major infrastructure built. So I can only assume that debt was racked up to give tax cuts! The BOE will follow the Federal reserve on interest rates and it will be a disaster. Especially if the government are adamant on not keeping wages pegged to inflation. Most US mortgages are fixed for 20-30 years. So at least most US homeowners will be shielded from rate rises. Most UK mortgages are tracking base rate or 2 year fixes. People will be wiped out if rates go to just half what inflation is. In the 80's interest rates went above the inflation rate. We are fucked, so we should all be fighting not to have a pay cut. How anyone can not understand why the RMT are striking is beyond me.

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

Well, the government plan to revoke old laws and allow temporary staff to work over the strike….

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-will-change-law-to-let-agency-staff-do-jobs-of-strikers-p0c9r5t6k

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

Yep, people like Mr Hay are furious , bless them

It's getting hard to keep track of all the people we're meant to be furious at by now. Lawyers. doctors. Lefties. Strikers. Railworkers etc...

Immigrants

The EU

Wokes

on fire with your contributions again today. "

Thanks

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh.

If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.

Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.

The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.

It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.

Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.

You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.

The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.

I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.

You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.

How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.

The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.

"

I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.

But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.

This is directly the desire of the RMT.

Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

Watched the Andrew Neil show yesterday who pointed out that rail strikes these days will not be the weapon they used to be because so many people can work from home these days and have had plenty of practice lately. They will still cause massive problems to those that are trying to get to work in order to pay the higher bills.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh.

If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.

Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.

The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.

It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.

Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.

You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.

The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.

I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.

You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.

How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.

The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.

I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.

But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.

This is directly the desire of the RMT.

Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas. "

Barristers striking will result in innocent people staying in jail , nurses will work to rule so slow down diagnosis of cancers and people will die. It’s not the desires of the unions to hurt anyone only the pocket of the rail operators.

Firemen when they last went in strike cost lives . Not many I believe as they regularly came out if something was serious as they knew the army’s green goddesses weren’t up to it good for them but I believe no pay rise since 2006.

I liked the idea of no ticket money being collected by the rail workers whilst keeping the service going but as sales are mostly online that won’t work.

So withdrawing labour is the main tool sadly.

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By *hybloke67Man
over a year ago

ROMFORD


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh.

If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.

Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.

The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.

It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.

Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.

You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.

The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.

I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.

You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.

How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.

The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.

I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.

But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.

This is directly the desire of the RMT.

Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas.

Barristers striking will result in innocent people staying in jail , nurses will work to rule so slow down diagnosis of cancers and people will die. It’s not the desires of the unions to hurt anyone only the pocket of the rail operators.

Firemen when they last went in strike cost lives . Not many I believe as they regularly came out if something was serious as they knew the army’s green goddesses weren’t up to it good for them but I believe no pay rise since 2006.

I liked the idea of no ticket money being collected by the rail workers whilst keeping the service going but as sales are mostly online that won’t work.

So withdrawing labour is the main tool sadly.

"

No argument with withdrawing labour if that is the last option. But as I said before the members would not have been given any of the other options as a first step in industrial action.

Also as already stated if going on strike was the last option there is no reason why members of different rail operators could has withdrawn labour on different day to less impact the general public.

The major rail strike is purely down to the design of the RMT no one else.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

more economic disaster caused by conservative and unionist government .... it's synonymous

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An obstinate government, an under appreciated industry, a terrible mix. This is another avoidable situation.

The tories play like they are being tough and their supporters lap it up like good little doggies, not realising they are being played.

Don’t be fooled because if the tories get away with it now, see more pay cuts to doctors and nurses, law enforcement, and other public services which will probably move into the private sector, racing to the bottom, reducing the quality of living in the UK.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"The biggest rail strikes in three decades are due to start on Monday night, with trains cancelled across geeat britain for much of the week.

The first of three 24 hour walkouts by 40,000 rmt members, including signallers, maintenance and train staff, will start just after midnight on tuesday morning, with only one in five trains running on strike days and halting services altogether in much of northern and south west england, wales and Scotland.

What is the strike about do you think, is it cos of wages and wasnt there already a strike about a week ago or so and what did they achieve on that one?"

I personally think that this strike will be the first of many and a trigger for a summer (and following winter) of discontent.

Many public sector employees had their pay under the cosh from 2010 until 2020 and now they be are going to be asked to accept below inflation pay awards again because of the current crisis.

All the while the number of billionaires in the U.K. has increased and the wealth gap has also increased.

It stinks.

The people are waking up.

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

They should increase nurses starting salaries then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s

They should increase nurses starting salaries then "

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 21/06/22 06:49:10]

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

So would you support Nurse’s striking?

Sounds like they need a significant pay rise.

This Government and it’s client News outlets are force feeding us the narrative of division - and in fact have been doing the same thing for years.

Rail workers salaries have kept up with inflation because the RMT is a strong union. They are not prepared to accept a below inflation salary increase and a reduction in standards.

Most other people have seen their wages fall well below inflation.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far .

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 21/06/22 07:29:58]

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.


"It looks like we are dealing with some of the most selfish people that exist in society. If they think that they are underpaid they should seek a job elsewhere.

As things stand train drivers are vastly overpaid. We should be looking to cut their pay , not increase it. There is no valid reason to pay a train driver £60, 000. The union boss lives in a world far removed from reality. He earns £120000 per annum and owns a house worth circ £1 million .

Let hope the government win this one and repeat what happened to Arthur Scargill.

Their demands are an insult to every working class person. Let's hope the government wins and automation kicks in ASAP. "
Yes, they earn alot dont they and I think that a tube driver earns the most, everyone should work as a train driver

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

Look at their pay ten years ago

Your Tory mates have not allowed the nurses a proper pay increases in that time so they have had nothing but cuts. Why aren’t you calling out the Tory government for cutting nurses pay if it bothers you so much?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"so are you saying that rail fares should rise by 11% ?

Of course people have the right to strike but what about the people who travel by train shouldn't they all gat 11% too to make up for their extra costs? "

Season tickets and walk on fares go up in January by the October inflation rate + 1% … it’s a set formula!

The issue at the moment is that the government have offered a 2% pay rise.. + 1% in efficiency savings to people who have not had a pay rise in 3 years…. At a time inflation is 9% and rising

I don’t like the inconvenience.. but I do understand the sentiment

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

The lowest salary for a nurse is actually £25665.

That may increase by 3% this year if the proposed pay increase is implemented.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

Once again your wrong..

Plus attempting to compare a starting salary of one role and another which is highly skilled is facile..

Whatever happened to Boris and the aim of not going back to a low wage economy..?

To have a high skilled workforce?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

That’s typical lazy hot take

It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF

The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s

That’s typical lazy hot take

It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF

The RMT represents the people at the poorer end… "

i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.

[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.

[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.

What were you saying ?

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By *9 kisses.Man
over a year ago

clacton on sea


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

If the train drivers are on that money then fair play to them, the amount of training they have to go through to become one is immense,

I couldn't cope with some jumping in front of me to kill themselves,

And this goes on everyday,

No thanks,

Also I agree the nurse's should get paid a lot more than they are,

Definitely more than teachers at least,

The amount of holiday they get,

I'm sure the nurse's would love that

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s

That’s typical lazy hot take

It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF

The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…

i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.

[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.

[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.

What were you saying ?

"

So you talked about 2 of the companies out of the 14 striking today… and the majority of drivers at those companies are members of ASLEF as opposed to RMT… but you keep writing what you think will points score!!!

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s

That’s typical lazy hot take

It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF

The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…

i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.

[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.

[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.

What were you saying ?

So you talked about 2 of the companies out of the 14 striking today… and the majority of drivers at those companies are members of ASLEF as opposed to RMT… but you keep writing what you think will points score!!! "

No just pointing out that this is just the start also once the signalmen stop so does everything else

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s

That’s typical lazy hot take

It’s not the train drivers who are on strike.. they have their own union.. ASLEF

The RMT represents the people at the poorer end…

i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.

[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.

[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.

What were you saying ?

So you talked about 2 of the companies out of the 14 striking today… and the majority of drivers at those companies are members of ASLEF as opposed to RMT… but you keep writing what you think will points score!!!

No just pointing out that this is just the start also once the signalmen stop so does everything else "

Well then if they offered more that 2% when even the Bank of England concedes in there latest bank meetings minutes suggest that inflation is unlikely to get close to the 2% mark for the next 24 months you might see why it may be considered to be a slap in the face

I am no unionists… but 7% in the time of 11% inflation seems more reasonable than 2% does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought what we were embarking now on a change of direction that has been long overdue in the UK economy - and not going back to the same old broken model with low wages, low growth, low skills and low productivity – all of it enabled and assisted by uncontrolled immigration.

Given we now also have inflation, meaning wages are falling in real terms anything but what thaye are asking is a huge step away from what we voted for ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just knew the lazy ****s comment had to be Mitzi comment when I saw it quoted. Scrolled up a bit... yup.

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By *runostarsMan
over a year ago

longbridge

The train companies are all making profit and paying dividends to the shareholders yet are saying there's no money for the workers to have a pay rise. There should be no extra cost to the commuters but a reduction in profits to shareholders. Workers should come before shareholders. Not to mention changes to terms and conditions and pensions and a reduction in workforce which will result in a much less safer and inclusive railway for all users. Cost-cutting at the expense of safety!!!

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By *runostarsMan
over a year ago

longbridge


"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far . "

RMT members were balloted for both action short of strike (working to rule) and strike action and voted resoundingly for both!

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

There seems to be a few companies taking a different approach to the high inflation and pay rises. Instead of giving workers a large pay rise around the inflation level, they give them a half decent rise but also a cash lump sum. This way people get money now when they need it but there wages do not go up massively which of course carries over to subsequent years

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far .

RMT members were balloted for both action short of strike (working to rule) and strike action and voted resoundingly for both!"

Then the whole membership is complicit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far .

RMT members were balloted for both action short of strike (working to rule) and strike action and voted resoundingly for both!

Then the whole membership is complicit "

Democracy

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Odd isnt it when inflation was low workers were told they must take low payrises whilst bosses awarded themselves large payrises bonuses and dividends to shareholders .now inflation is high the same workers are told they still have to take low payrises whilst the bosses still award themselves large payrises bonuses and pay out large devidends but we are all in this together arent we ?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"The biggest rail strikes in three decades are due to start on Monday night, with trains cancelled across geeat britain for much of the week.

The first of three 24 hour walkouts by 40,000 rmt members, including signallers, maintenance and train staff, will start just after midnight on tuesday morning, with only one in five trains running on strike days and halting services altogether in much of northern and south west england, wales and Scotland.

What is the strike about do you think, is it cos of wages and wasnt there already a strike about a week ago or so and what did they achieve on that one?"

Significantly below inflation pay rises in return for unspecified "modern working practices" and "increased efficiencies".

Apparently staff need to "make up for" the COVID subsidies that were provided by the Government in some way yet the Government says that it's none of their business.

Not completely unreasonable as far as I can see.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"If inflation is to hit 11% later this year and they want an increase to reflect it, then over the next few years when inflation is said to come back into line they'll be well very well paid workers.

There's two sides - it's great to have so many in your corner unionised.

The strike will add to cost pressures of small businesses that are needing people to spend, adding to inflation.

The difference between Rail and teachers, police, fire, nhs (as I understand) is they strike out of time or leave skeleton staff on so the whole system doesn't fail. "

I'm not sure that you understand how inflation works.

If inflation rises by 10% then it costs roughly 10% more to live. If inflation "falls" to 3% next year it adds to this year's increase.

Only deflation of -11% would reduced the cost of things.

The Police and fire service are not allowed to strike. They can only work to rule, which means that the system grinds to a standstill. That tells you about staffing levels.

The NHS tends to only work to rule in protest because the consequences are so serious. As a result they are exploited.

Teachers can strike and have done.

There have been real terms pay cuts for the public sector and a lot of private sector low wage jobs for over a decade and people wonder why they are demotivated.

Not so long ago, rising pay was being hailed as a UK success by this same government who are now demanding restraint.

In the meantime they, apparently want unrestricted director and non executive directors pay.

Hmmm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Looks like pensioners may be getting their 10pc ...

Wonder how the hooks are going to balance if we are all spendimg less in real terms ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well didn't Boris promise us a high wage economy..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well didn't Boris promise us a high wage economy..?"

Yep, good point,

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Labour is supporting the strike. What a surprise

A train driver’s starting salary is £48k, whereas a nurse is only £22k.

Sympathy for train drivers? No!

Lazy ****s "

Starting salary of a train driver is £30k. Average £48k.

Average nurse's salary is £33k. Far too low. That doesn't mean that a train driver's salary is too high, does it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Median salary of a driver is 59k a guard/ticket collector is 33k fact. They should be ashamed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What I don't get isnwe are forever telling companies to pay more for the shitty jobs.... Yet don't like other jobs getting paid a decent amount.

I also wonder why there aren't more people trying to be train drivers if it's so cushty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

former rail worker and RMT member we would not need to be balloted to work to rule as it is carrying our your contract hours and conditions .we would just be requested to work to rule by the local union rep . i have had to do this once in my entire time 28 years on the railways and that was a local dispute over signalmans meal break relief being withdrawn by management to cut cost . we worked to rule no overtime no restday working no extra sundayworking no acting up to cover supervisory roles. we worked to rule for three weeks before they relented as they were struggling to cover shifts after three weeks its cost me and my collegues a substantial hit to our wages but was the correct fight to take up as it was a step to far . "

Public server Management love to take a piss at a great height on other employers.

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By *heekyflickWoman
over a year ago

LINCOLN


"Has Shapps done anything at all to try and avert this strike? Will he?

(More likely, he + Johnson will use this situation as another way to try and get the public angry at anybody but the government.)

It's not any government job to negotiate disputes.

If the RMT and railway company cannot come to some sort of agreement, both sides should then agree to go to Acas.

The fact that the RMT has so many disputes with different rail companies at the same time would suggest that the RMT has not agreed to go to Acas with any of these various rail companies.

Seems like a big part of Shapps' job is avoiding this sort of issue...

Of course you could always just ignore what the correct procedure is and try to blame the government anyway.

Workers strike over working conditions + pay. Government could get involved to help sort it out if they wanted. But they want people angry at striking workers. Just like they wanted people angry at doctors. And lawyers. And judges etc etc...

Ignoring the correct procedures again to suit your narrative.

Acas is the correct procedure which settles disputes and both side agree to follow what Acas deside on.

The RMT is ultimately to blame for having various rail companies having their strike days around the country on the same day.

They have also picked the dates which will affect the maximum people they can affect with these dates.

If the industry action continues through the summer every major event will be affected because the RMT will be looking at these events and planning to strike on those days.

Will you be so accusing of the barristers and the nurses when they strike?

To withdraw their labour is a basic right allowed to every worker. They don’t pick on anyone when they withdraw their labour.

If they just wanted publicity they could have just walked out for the whole of the jubilee weekend .

The spiteful belief is fed by the Mail and express .

This is a union legally fighting for its workers to stop being poorer and people keep forgetting that.

If you don’t get a pay rise matching inflation you’re taking a pay cut. It’s that simple.

It’s not about morals because if it was then why were dividends paid if the companies couldn’t afford the rises?

Strange no government minister complains about that. Or the leasing of trains from foreign manufacturers at the expense of British jobs.

Free markets eh.

If you choose to ignor how the RMT works that up to you.

Someone said before that striking is the RMT's last option.

The reality is the members involved in the dispute will not have been balloted to work to rule. One option they could of used.

The members will not have been balloted to a ban on overtime. Another option they could of used.

The only ballot they would of got was strike action at a date that has been chosen for them at RMT head office.

It's not about blaming the RMT workers it's about how the RMT has created a major rail strike around the country at on the same days.

Plus of course not sitting down with Acas as previously mentioned.

You do know a number of the rail companies hadn’t offered anything until this week don’t you.

The union elect their leaders to make choices just as we elect the government. Look how the ballot box worked out when uniformed people were given the vote on Brexit.

I’m not ignoring the RMT operations but given they’ve kept their workers closer to inflation than most unions I think they have achieved success with their methods over ten years. I didn’t see any complaints from the union members about that.

You’re confusing democracy with a method of operation. I’m sure if they need ACAS they can revert.

How the union plans their argument is for the union leaders not a ballot for every choice. You may not like it and I’m no fan as like you I would have preferred all parties to talk but you can’t deny they have the mandate.

The government say Boris has a mandate to stay in power despite 75% of parliament having no faith in him. He was voted as leader despite how much he’s loathed.

I'm not against unions as they have a purpose for workers and I fully agree with that.

But I do not agree with creating a major rail strike around the country which will damage the income and prospects of a lot of people.

This is directly the desire of the RMT.

Strikes could have been arranged on different dates so the public had alternative routes of travel in some areas.

Barristers striking will result in innocent people staying in jail , nurses will work to rule so slow down diagnosis of cancers and people will die. It’s not the desires of the unions to hurt anyone only the pocket of the rail operators.

Firemen when they last went in strike cost lives . Not many I believe as they regularly came out if something was serious as they knew the army’s green goddesses weren’t up to it good for them but I believe no pay rise since 2006.

I liked the idea of no ticket money being collected by the rail workers whilst keeping the service going but as sales are mostly online that won’t work.

So withdrawing labour is the main tool sadly.

No argument with withdrawing labour if that is the last option. But as I said before the members would not have been given any of the other options as a first step in industrial action.

Also as already stated if going on strike was the last option there is no reason why members of different rail operators could has withdrawn labour on different day to less impact the general public.

The major rail strike is purely down to the design of the RMT no one else."

As a member of RMT I can confirm we were given all of the above options...we chose by majority to strike as previous talks were ignored and sometimes never even attended by the Toc's...

This strike has nothing to do with drivers except for the 5% who are with RMT...the drivers union is ASLEF who are not striking...

This is re lower paid grades of the railways...and more to do with job security than the payrise...yes that's included but not the only factor...the government want to take over the railways again and cut 70% of the workforce and run driver only or driverless trains...Great in theory but if there is ever an incident on board, who will sort the paying passengers out? Start emergency evacuations safely?? It's not just about selling tickets as most people think...that person/ persons career starts through 20+ weeks of safety training and ensuring the passengers are kept safe...constant recapping to ensure they stay aware and safe...unsocial hours etc..

If you don't stand up to say your piece why have unions in first place?

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By *heekyflickWoman
over a year ago

LINCOLN

And yes I'm up this early as I'm going into work at 4am to keep people on the railway safe....

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By *eandmrsjones69Couple
over a year ago

Middle England

Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

"
and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

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By *urreyfun38Couple
over a year ago

croydon


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

"

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/06/22 10:15:12]

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. "
Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example."

I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable.

I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver.

The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait.

The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example.

I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable.

I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver.

The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait.

The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers.

"
People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example.

I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable.

I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver.

The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait.

The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers.

People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it."

I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement .

The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law.

I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour.

Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them.

Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug .

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example.

I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable.

I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver.

The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait.

The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers.

People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it.

I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement .

The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law.

I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour.

Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them.

Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug .

"
No Lynch he sees himself as the next scargill and wants to bring the government down where he couldn't.

He isnt bothered if he ends up like him , scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended up with a big house and small union.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example.

I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable.

I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver.

The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait.

The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers.

People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it.

I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement .

The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law.

I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour.

Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them.

Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug .

"
No Lynch he sees himself as the next scargill and wants to bring the government down where he couldn't.

He isnt bothered if he ends up like him , scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended up with a big house and small union.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Think it would be better to go through mandatory arbitration before a strike. Think there was a body called ACAS or something like that.

If there's a serious incident the likelihood is the staff members/ drivers will be just as injured as the general public.

How many of those going on strike buy their tickets for events, travel etc online. How many use online banking or shopping. It's called progress! Why should they be immune?

Sure withdraw your labour, but to be honest I have no sympathy for them. No one likes being held to ransom.

and what a waste of time going to ACAS would be on the radio last night both the lead negotiator for the rail delivery group (tocs) and the deputy leader of the rmt stated that during talks the rmt had made concessions to try and broker a deal when pressed by the interviewer the delivery group negotiator could not and would not make that extra effort to get the deal over the line as thier hands were tied .one wonders who is tying thier hands wouldnt be grant i cant intervein snapps would it .have said it before this whole confrontation is a set up to bring the rmt to heal as the last treuly strong trades union break them and the other unions will be to cowed to follow the torys have long memories of unions that stand up to them and win and will see this as a chance to get revenge

And a union that seems intent on staying in the 70s with work practices do out of date that if it were any other business it would of failed years ago.

They seems a bit like the miners in that they want to take on a government with a large majority and public opinion firmly against them

Ther may be a bit of pain but ultimately for the railways to survive the entire working practices of the employees and management need to be dragged into the 21st century. Exactly for what reason are they rejecting the use of drones to inspect railway lines? (its common practice in europe) and will save lives.Thats just one example.

I agree in principal. I think it was the way they planned to implement and didn’t discuss. Natural redundancy for the older generations and with 50k staff that’s got to be doable.

I don’t agree with no guards at all on every train from personal experience. Too dangerous. I’d rather a guard than a driver.

The miners were set up by Thatcher and Tebbitt and Scargill stupidly went for the bait.

The miners were proved correct in their fears though . The mines were closed and cheaper imports did replace U.K. coal. Great for shareholders but not so good for U.K. workers.

People are entitled to think what they like but personally i find it laughable that people think the tories are picking a fight for the sake of it.

I don’t think they saw it coming but Shapps is lying about no involvement .

The contracts were shown for the rail companies yesterday and they include no agreements without written consent of the Transport secretary. So it’s bullshit to say he isn’t pulling strings . The rail companies defer to Shapps by law.

I think Starmer is right to stay out of it as this is all on the government not labour.

Labour MPs walking on the picket lines are playing into the Tory hands of trying to make it a political fight rather than what it is which is about pay and conditions . More fool them.

Even Lynch said he doesn’t care whether Starmer supports him or not as it’s about his workers not the Labour Party. Lynch is no mug .

No Lynch he sees himself as the next scargill and wants to bring the government down where he couldn't.

He isnt bothered if he ends up like him , scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended up with a big house and small union. "

Scargill was stupid and his power nested his mind.

Lynch isn’t that character at all and he’s not interested in who’s in charge they will red or blue both get a hard time from him.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Infested

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Median salary of a driver is 59k a guard/ticket collector is 33k fact. They should be ashamed"

You probably want to check what median means...

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it."

I don't think that you are correct here.

Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much.

The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work.

These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation.

We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation.

The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid.

I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades.

Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector.

In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think that you are correct here.

Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much.

The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work.

These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation.

We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation.

The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid.

I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades.

Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector.

In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay..."

I'm interested in "the increased productivity" what is this and how will it work?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think that you are correct here.

Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much.

The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work.

These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation.

We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation.

The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid.

I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades.

Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector.

In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay...

I'm interested in "the increased productivity" what is this and how will it work?"
productivity wise network rail is just about there and cannot do much more hundreds of signalboxes and crossing boxes closed and replaced with computerised systems using less staff .the big savings they can make is to cut middle management something they tried to do last year with voluntary redundancys which was over subscribed and they did not have the funding .the union are prepared to go with this but the dft are refusing to fund it unless there are compulsory redundancies meaning the wrong posts and wrong people will be desposed of to the detriment of the company and travelers alike .who's pulling the string none other than not me guv shapps

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses

If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Expect more strikes from other sectors. If the government refuse to honour raising pay with inflation. What do they expect??

They clearly have no ideas to deal with this crisis. Interest rates will go up considerably soon to counter inflation. Most workers will be facing ruin, if this persists. What happens to the economy when workers are facing large pay cuts in a time of high inflation. Lump into that credit card debt and mortgage payments going up. This government will default to austerity, whilst we are in a recession. Its like watching a slow motion car crash. Sure they will continue wasting money by trying to continually patch things up. Rather than addressing what should have been addressed when the banks crashed the economy in 2008. People will only tolerate a certain level of inequality until they lose their rag on mass.

How do you suggest this crisis is dealt with?

At least try to pay with inflation as at least that will eat people's debt and same will apply to the national debt. Whilst doing this fix peoples mortgages for at least 5 years, so rates can be raised without causing mass homelessness. This would also leverage the inflation to eat the mortgage debt. Take big steps to address supply chains, start on shoring as much as possible. Restructure the banks, so their main purpose is business lending and venture capital. Not lending for buy to let. Build affordable housing owned by the government, rather than spending tens of billions on housing benefit. That would be a start, but I'm sure there would be economists with far greater understanding and ideas. Basically we need to move away from being short termist/no planning and riddled with productivity sapping renteirism. To an economy that is about increasing productivity and leveraging technology. This requires vision and strategy from government. Also clean up all the lobbying and corruption.

Raising wages in line with inflation will push inflation higher and you end up in a loop with no end. A hike in interest rates, deters spending and should bring inflation down, it isn't pretty and it will hurt many.

We’re buying less anyway and due to austerity there is nowhere to go. The underlying costs associated with goods are now the problem and not wages as much.

It’s going to get very painful though I do agree with you there.

I agree we are clearly already in recession, the inflation has killed demand anyway. Also Belgium and luxemberg still have manditory wages rises linked to CPI. We have higher inflation than both those countries. I think this disproves the wage rises will fuel runaway inflation. Its just the government playing disaster politics to drive down wages, as that is their flawed idiology.

It really isn't the government, the bank of England provides the strategy. Inflation is going up because people are still spending, that is how it works, spending and borrowing money to spend, drives inflation. But don't forget this is on a global stage, oil, gas, grain etc.

There is no positive outcome other than venting some anger, in associating every past government blunder on cost of living crisis we have now.

It is very clear that a global market place is what we are part of and that market is under extreme pressure due to the war in Ukraine and coming out of a pandemic.

The situation we have now would be exactly the same whoever was in power, the direction we go in would probably be similar for who ever is in power too. It can be really easy to mudsling and say under this government it is worse, but that is an unrealistic argument, as there is nothing to compare what this government is doing now to anything else for the last 12 years.

The reality of this is going to be tough for those that can least afford it.

I don't think that you are correct here.

Inflation is not demand driven. It is supply limited. It's the price of staple necessities such as fuel and electricity and basic foodstuffs that are rising the most. People cannot stop buying these things or even realistically reduce their purchases by much.

The lowest paid need more money to pay for basic needs. That's the majority of the population based on how averages actually work.

These same input costs are increasing the costs of all goods which is additional inflation.

We have additionally created a labour shortage through Brexit which means that anybody with any skills can command higher wages regardless of inflation.

The solution really is for government to probably strongarm companies into increasing pay for the poorest before dividends are paid.

I would agree that above a certain threshold we will have to swallow below inflation pay rises, bit the public sector have been doing this for decades.

Increased productivity can work, but requires investment which is not forthcoming very soon. Again, particularly in the public sector.

In the meantime the Government want to raise restrictions on director's pay...

I'm interested in "the increased productivity" what is this and how will it work?"

That would require significant increases in automation.

Everything from signalling to maintenance to driving.

Huge investment and a lot of teething problems to resolve.

You can replace people, bit it's really, really difficult in most cases.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Just for clarity from Full Fact:

“The average train driver earns £59,000, the average rail worker earns £44,000, the average nurse, £31,000.”

GRANT SHAPPS MP, 20 JUNE 2022

"This figure is the median salary for rail sector roles. It includes train drivers, who are not involved in the RMT strike, and excludes other workers such as cleaners, who are. The RMT says the median salary of its rail members is £31,000."

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses

If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.

"

Same with the road network then.

No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?

Capitalism does not always work.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses

If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.

Same with the road network then.

No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?

Capitalism does not always work."

That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

no surprise that the usual conservative and unionisy government intransigence has lead to pay cuts for workers in both private and public sectors, it's hilarious to see the usual far righties stamping their feet and having a hissy fit whilst trying to blame everyone for the problems apart from the government who have caused these problems.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses

If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.

Same with the road network then.

No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?

Capitalism does not always work.

That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel "

So trains stop running, bus fairs rise and road transport costs rise because every road becomes a toll road.

More remote roads will charge more as they have less use and cost more to maintain.

I guess you see no problem in this.

Write a letter to Rees-Mogg. Could be a Brexit opportunity to completely rethink transportation...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses

If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.

Same with the road network then.

No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?

Capitalism does not always work.

That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel

So trains stop running, bus fairs rise and road transport costs rise because every road becomes a toll road.

More remote roads will charge more as they have less use and cost more to maintain.

I guess you see no problem in this.

Write a letter to Rees-Mogg. Could be a Brexit opportunity to completely rethink transportation..."

The price rises will happen anyway so no letters needed

the rail strike is a farce.

Now the baggage handlers and airstaff I agree with as ther had a 10% realtime cut which should have been reinstated

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Maybe the subsidies should be stopped and the railways should be stand alone businesses

If they are not profitable that way then they are not a valid business model.

Same with the road network then.

No more subsidies and charge for every mile of use, right?

Capitalism does not always work.

That’s ok you by the mile would be fairer for a lot of people ingest of a blanket road tax regardless of how much you travel

So trains stop running, bus fairs rise and road transport costs rise because every road becomes a toll road.

More remote roads will charge more as they have less use and cost more to maintain.

I guess you see no problem in this.

Write a letter to Rees-Mogg. Could be a Brexit opportunity to completely rethink transportation...

The price rises will happen anyway so no letters needed

the rail strike is a farce.

Now the baggage handlers and airstaff I agree with as ther had a 10% realtime cut which should have been reinstated "

What makes the rail strike "a farce" and why not charge people in remote areas more for using roads?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Let's have a wider look at who is paid what and who is actually on strike:

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/23/railworkers-and-what-they-earn-who-are-the-real-fat-cats#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16560890185792&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ?

If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here...

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

And they say they totally understand how difficult it is for everyone and wage increases need to be restrained.

Look at this amazing restraint in the below link. For reference a list of the jobs available at Manchester airport was published recently and most were at minimum wage or two pounds per hour above. The pay gap is getting bigger and they are not worth it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-61917259

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ?

If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here..."

It’s law that the prices increase and nothing to do with wage settlement. I think it is set this way to attract the private investors but I’m not sure. The main beneficiaries of the increase are shareholders. Not the workers and definitely not the customers.

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By *isandhers691127Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

200,000 pound wage rise for the ceo of Birmingham Airport. Dont forget, we are all in this together

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ?

If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here...

It’s law that the prices increase and nothing to do with wage settlement. I think it is set this way to attract the private investors but I’m not sure. The main beneficiaries of the increase are shareholders. Not the workers and definitely not the customers. "
that's what I thought. So raile prices are rising regardless.

Other industries I can understand the argument to some degree.

But I can't see it applies here.

(What may apply here is that revenue won't be increasing by inflation as passenger numbers are down).

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Dumb question alert. Are rail ticket prices not linked to inflation ?

If so, how does the wage inflation = price inflation work here...

It’s law that the prices increase and nothing to do with wage settlement. I think it is set this way to attract the private investors but I’m not sure. The main beneficiaries of the increase are shareholders. Not the workers and definitely not the customers. that's what I thought. So raile prices are rising regardless.

Other industries I can understand the argument to some degree.

But I can't see it applies here.

(What may apply here is that revenue won't be increasing by inflation as passenger numbers are down). "

Yes that’s true.

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By *irlonatrainWoman
over a year ago

London

I think there is a general misconception about how the railways are run. It is completely different now as to what was ‘franchising’. Train operators are now awarded a national rail contract which will give them a certain amount £m to run the train services for a set period of time, if they meet performance targets then they will receive additional money. All surplus revenue returns to central government ie the treasury.

Most have also been on a pay freeze for a number of years and this strike is nothing to do with drivers who do earn more than the average RMT employee. Other unions are balloting and it may well be that there is a strike as a result of the drivers in due course. This isn’t just about wages, it’s also about safety concerns and compulsory redundancies.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester


"I think there is a general misconception about how the railways are run. It is completely different now as to what was ‘franchising’. Train operators are now awarded a national rail contract which will give them a certain amount £m to run the train services for a set period of time, if they meet performance targets then they will receive additional money. All surplus revenue returns to central government ie the treasury.

Most have also been on a pay freeze for a number of years and this strike is nothing to do with drivers who do earn more than the average RMT employee. Other unions are balloting and it may well be that there is a strike as a result of the drivers in due course. This isn’t just about wages, it’s also about safety concerns and compulsory redundancies. "

So where does the dividends come from?

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By *irlonatrainWoman
over a year ago

London

Dividends will I assume now be paid out of whatever ‘bonus’ the TOC receives from central government. This is capped in the contracts. All expiring franchise contracts are moving on to a national rail contract. It won’t be feasible for them to pay those kind of dividends going forward. Franchising now doesn’t exist, only for a few that are still within contract but I think all TOCS are due to be on the new NRCs by the end of this year.

Essentially the railway is run and owned by the government. They own the contracts, they own the infrastructure, they set the ticket rises. And none of the tocs or network rail can negotiate anything without the transport Secretary of state’s say so. This is a government problem no matter what people may think.

Google national rail contracts. I think the last one to be awarded was to GWR.

If you really want to bore yourself then read the Williams shapps review. It’s riveting.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Now that’s interesting,

So the previous hundreds of millions of dividends have been paid out but now the franchises are not making money the private sector is walking away not putting their hands in their pockets to support or re-invest.

Also I read all the contracts have a final clause in writing that the transport secretary has the final say. Is that correct?

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By *irlonatrainWoman
over a year ago

London


"Now that’s interesting,

So the previous hundreds of millions of dividends have been paid out but now the franchises are not making money the private sector is walking away not putting their hands in their pockets to support or re-invest.

Also I read all the contracts have a final clause in writing that the transport secretary has the final say. Is that correct? "

I wouldn’t say that the private sector are walking away but government decided to change how train services are run. They had to spend billions during the pandemic to keep services running as a public service. The government had to absorb all risk and that will remain the same but they will also take any profits beyond what is agreed in the contracts as opposed to the operators. I’d hazard a guess that the part about the sos is likely true but I don’t know that for a fact. The contracts maybe available online but with commercially sensitive info redacted. The gov own all of the railways and how it is operated. Operators have no power whatsoever.

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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago

Reading

I am posting late . My thought is. Having read on news feeds on my mobile about working practises changes . The one that I have seen is using drones to check tracks?

So far I have not seen documented all changes that the railway companies want to change.

Now perhaps it is different industry .

My job was commissioning / installation engineer in the car industry .

I will refer going to British Layland. The problem I encountered there to replace a motor . It took me less than half an hour. On my own . Yet a strike was nearly called as . The unions there wanted my company to send a minimum of four people of different trades to do job. Most will know what happened to British Layland .

I as said not sure of all changes to practices which the strikes are over. Yet if changes are needed then practices do need to be updated to new technology and yes ensure safety is still paramount .

As an add. Before I retired from my last company . I was a safety representative and did a lot of safe systems of work to prevent accidents.

I was also a union shop steward for many years. So see both sides of the fence.

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By *rafter85Man
over a year ago

Rugeley

To those that are against the strikes…

If your employer tells you they are going to rip up your old contract and get you to sign you a new, much worse one, do you bend over and take it or kneel down and suck it before thanking them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To those that are against the strikes…

If your employer tells you they are going to rip up your old contract and get you to sign you a new, much worse one, do you bend over and take it or kneel down and suck it before thanking them?"

I think they do both.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

"

Is it called work to rule. But can the employer refuse to pay them..?

Also with season tickets and many tickets bought online, would it hurt the employers if the could refuse to pay them or deduct a certain amount..?

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

Is it called work to rule. But can the employer refuse to pay them..?

Also with season tickets and many tickets bought online, would it hurt the employers if the could refuse to pay them or deduct a certain amount..?"

I wouldn't know if they would receive pay but the principle would be they would let whoever they could take fares for free. As a result using the companies resources whilst not gaining revenue. I understand season ticket holders, though those with weekly or day tickets would simply walk though open gates.

The economy would keep moving just their business would suffer until a negotiated end.

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By *ardiffCoupleNJCouple
over a year ago

Pontypridd/Rhyfelin


"Why do they think they are better deserving than their customers ?

Let them go find better paid employment elsewhere..."

Presumably spoken from a position of someone not suffering too badly with rising prices (yet).

Some have said rising interest rates will follow rising prices in due course. Maybe, but so far rates have been slow to rise compared to inflation. Inflation isn't yet being driven by wage inflation (but supply constraints). But it could if things don't improve soon (Putin understands this only too well & rubbing his hands with glee seeing the UK economy suffering more than the Russian).

On the face of it we seem to be facing a workforce shortage. Yet if you look at the vast majority of jobs going, they are low paid / close to minimum wage. Why is the care sector so short staffed....pay is low and it's a thankless and difficult job.

BA management is 'disappointed staff may strike'. Ummm.... but didn't they force workers to take a pay cut not so long ago?

The fact is if this isn't going to rapidly lead to a depression, the government should be leading by example and offering significant rises to the poorest paid, with maybe a tiered rise. And while the rest of us won't like it, better paid workers will have to share the pain.

Otherwise we'll be back to the 70s with the economy spiralling out of control.

Of course theres no chance Tory policy has room for such a 'socialist' approach....and in any case Tory voters would nt stand for it.

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By *rafter85Man
over a year ago

Rugeley

[Removed by poster at 25/06/22 22:42:18]

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By *rafter85Man
over a year ago

Rugeley


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

"
I think this might be illegal in UK

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

I think this might be illegal in UK"
it was in Japan one of the few times rail staff there needed to go on strike as it is seen respected well paid career there in an essential public service .not like here where it is seen as the exact opposite

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

I think this might be illegal in UKit was in Japan one of the few times rail staff there needed to go on strike as it is seen respected well paid career there in an essential public service .not like here where it is seen as the exact opposite "

I thought Japan already had some driverless trains and the plan there is to have almost all trains there driverless by 2028? Yes a very repected career in Japan.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment ..."

That's how they do it in Germany.


"I think this might be illegal in UK"

No one seems to know why that would be illegal. I wonder where that thought started.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment ...

That's how they do it in Germany.

I think this might be illegal in UK

No one seems to know why that would be illegal. I wonder where that thought started."
isn't it okay to break the law in specific and limited ways too?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Are the Government manufacturing a crisis to create some division and a distraction?

Probably:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/grant-shapps-tuc-government-department-for-transport-mick-lynch-b1008437.html

"Government ‘misleading’ over role in rail strikes, legal advice suggests

The TUC said an independent legal opinion undermined the Government’s claims that the rail dispute is just between the train operators and unions."

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"Cant remember which country it was (may have been imaginary) but continuing to work but refusing to check tickets or take payment, instead letting people ride for free would likely get the result unions are looking for.

"

That sounds a reasonable compromise but could it leave the worker at risk of being sacked? If your employed to take payments and check tickets but decide not to do it then the employers might decide you are not doing your job properly. Just a thought

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By *hagTonight OP   Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

I have done a new thread that we can continue on

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