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"The UK is facing an exodus of star scientists, with at least 16 recipients of prestigious European grants making plans to move their labs abroad as the UK remains frozen out of the EU’s flagship science programme. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/10/brexit-row-could-prompt-exodus-of-senior-scientists-from-uk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Britain’s participation in Horizon Europe has been caught in the crosshairs of the dispute over Brexit in Northern Ireland, meaning that 143 UK-based recipients of European Research Council fellowships this week faced a deadline of either relinquishing their grant or transferring it to an institute in an eligible country. The loss of these academics is a blow to the UK government’s proposed “bold, global alternative to Horizon”. This week the science minister, George Freeman, called on the EU not to “weaponise science for politics” before a meeting in Brussels, but said the UK was ready to press ahead with its plan B if the dispute is not resolved. Freeman appears to be oblivious to the fact that the UK seeks to weaponised at every opportunity the NIP. " So much winning | |||
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"Depends on who you want to listen to i guess the left wing remain guardian or a oxford professor. University of Oxford immunologist and geneticist Professor Sir John Bell told the BBC’s Today Programme: “I’m not sure we would be a lot worse off [out of Horizon Europe] and, in fact, we could be better off if we just set up our own programme.”Sir John added: “If we want to create a fellowship programme, we can create a fellowship programme. I mean, that’s not complicated. We can just get on and do it.This programme, he explained, would be funded using the £15billion presently ring-fenced for the UK’s contribution to Horizon Europe. " Good news - perhaps the scientists that left or plan to leave will come back! | |||
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"Depends on who you want to listen to i guess the left wing remain guardian or a oxford professor. University of Oxford immunologist and geneticist Professor Sir John Bell told the BBC’s Today Programme: “I’m not sure we would be a lot worse off [out of Horizon Europe] and, in fact, we could be better off if we just set up our own programme.”Sir John added: “If we want to create a fellowship programme, we can create a fellowship programme. I mean, that’s not complicated. We can just get on and do it.This programme, he explained, would be funded using the £15billion presently ring-fenced for the UK’s contribution to Horizon Europe. " “could be better off if we just set up our own programme” that “could”, as usual doing a lot of heavy lifting. What happens in the interim? Seems like no planning in place for this inevitability! I mean, it’s not as if we haven’t known this since 2016 right? Brexit is shit. End of. Period. | |||
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"Depends on who you want to listen to i guess the left wing remain guardian or a oxford professor. University of Oxford immunologist and geneticist Professor Sir John Bell told the BBC’s Today Programme: “I’m not sure we would be a lot worse off [out of Horizon Europe] and, in fact, we could be better off if we just set up our own programme.”Sir John added: “If we want to create a fellowship programme, we can create a fellowship programme. I mean, that’s not complicated. We can just get on and do it.This programme, he explained, would be funded using the £15billion presently ring-fenced for the UK’s contribution to Horizon Europe. " As with a lot of Brexit we are replacing something that works today. (bell says the two things here are a terrific fellowshio programme and an easy way to collaborate) We are hoping that the government really gives the area the money. And with Horizon we were net beneficiaries albeit that may have been lost when we left. That there is no loss from reduced scale And that we can deliver on our new found "freedoms". (to date, limited evidence of this) It's a gamble. Downside we spunk money up the wall and end up behind where we are. Upside is collaboration may be wider than Europe (although I'm not clear what stops this ATM. Bell is, after all, Canadian) | |||
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"Contributing to a part of a much lager research programme is much cheaper than fully funding your own . The economics will not pass the acid test unfortunately. " And the people who want to be involved will vote with their feet. | |||
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"Contributing to a part of a much lager research programme is much cheaper than fully funding your own . The economics will not pass the acid test unfortunately. And the people who want to be involved will vote with their feet." Any figures on how many are or are going to? Personally i just love a headline and see how people are suckered into them,they never seem to read the word COULD  | |||
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"Contributing to a part of a much lager research programme is much cheaper than fully funding your own . The economics will not pass the acid test unfortunately. And the people who want to be involved will vote with their feet.Any figures on how many are or are going to? Personally i just love a headline and see how people are suckered into them,they never seem to read the word COULD "“I’m not sure we would be a lot worse off [out of Horizon Europe] and, in fact, we COULD be better off if we just set up our own programme 
Brexit was built on could. | |||
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"Contributing to a part of a much lager research programme is much cheaper than fully funding your own . The economics will not pass the acid test unfortunately. And the people who want to be involved will vote with their feet.Any figures on how many are or are going to? Personally i just love a headline and see how people are suckered into them,they never seem to read the word COULD
“I’m not sure we would be a lot worse off [out of Horizon Europe] and, in fact, we COULD be better off if we just set up our own programme
Brexit was built on could. "Exactly its all speculation, i know sod all about it as im not involved just as i suspect neither is anyone posting on this thread.It was my original post that said its all down to who you believe the guardian or an oxford professor and so until it actually happens no one will know but people will believe what fits their narrative. | |||
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"The UK is facing an exodus of star scientists, with at least 16 recipients of prestigious European grants making plans to move their labs abroad as the UK remains frozen out of the EU’s flagship science programme. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/10/brexit-row-could-prompt-exodus-of-senior-scientists-from-uk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Britain’s participation in Horizon Europe has been caught in the crosshairs of the dispute over Brexit in Northern Ireland, meaning that 143 UK-based recipients of European Research Council fellowships this week faced a deadline of either relinquishing their grant or transferring it to an institute in an eligible country. The loss of these academics is a blow to the UK government’s proposed “bold, global alternative to Horizon”. This week the science minister, George Freeman, called on the EU not to “weaponise science for politics” before a meeting in Brussels, but said the UK was ready to press ahead with its plan B if the dispute is not resolved. Freeman appears to be oblivious to the fact that the UK seeks to weaponised at every opportunity the NIP. We are hardly going to lose any scientists as we can use our contribution to fund our own programme . In any event the NIP will be scrapped shortly and things will return to normal Research is worldwide , not just specific to the EU . Professor Bell said the £15 billion membership fee should be used to replicate what Horizon did well, such as its “terrific fellowship programme” and boosting collaboration with scientists in different countries. “If we want to create a fellowship programme, we can create a fellowship programme. I mean, that’s not complicated. We can just get on and do it,” he said. “Collaboration is fundamental to all science activity,” he said, But I would argue that actually, good science doesn’t just go on in Europe. It goes on in Canada, Australia, Japan, United States.” " | |||
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"Contributing to a part of a much lager research programme is much cheaper than fully funding your own . The economics will not pass the acid test unfortunately. And the people who want to be involved will vote with their feet.Any figures on how many are or are going to? Personally i just love a headline and see how people are suckered into them,they never seem to read the word COULD
“I’m not sure we would be a lot worse off [out of Horizon Europe] and, in fact, we COULD be better off if we just set up our own programme
Brexit was built on could. Exactly its all speculation, i know sod all about it as im not involved just as i suspect neither is anyone posting on this thread.It was my original post that said its all down to who you believe the guardian or an oxford professor and so until it actually happens no one will know but people will believe what fits their narrative."Absolutely speculation based on some fact and quoting names - obviously project fear. Better to bring out a token scientist to tell is how good it could actually be to be separate from a large project as this gives better opportunities and, as there will be more money available for investment it will all go swimmingly well. Sounds like we have been here before and the gammons will believe the fantasy rather than the reality. | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon." It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon. It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. " Essentially, the UK was part of a club and left (we know this bit). The UK wants to cherry pick areas from the club which it feels are worth being part of (we know this bit too). The EU says no. The cause - Brexit | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project." Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? " 14 non-eu countries | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries " Fair enough, no bias against them then  | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project." What a shame - the poor UK. Onwards and sunlit uplands though, chin up old chap! | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. What a shame - the poor UK. Onwards and sunlit uplands though, chin up old chap!" I thought they need us more than we needed them?? | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then "Apparently being vindictive against the UK then. | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
"I thought that was established... And it's linked to our desire to renegotiate/cancel/ over rule NIP. Fool me once, and all that ! | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon. It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. " Oh I am sure HMG does say that, as would the EU if this was the other way round, I think the more important aspect is that how the scientists and academics in many of the other countries in horizon project also feel the EU,s stance is wrong and the how the benefits of these projects that effect us all are far more important than the silly political squabbles and posturing by both sides, as they have clearly stated to the EU commission. At the end of the day this sort of thing holds us all back as the human race so I fail to see why so many find it so amusing as they clearly do from the posts in this thread and others that have been posted on this subject in the past. Sad state of the world I guess. | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon. It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. Oh I am sure HMG does say that, as would the EU if this was the other way round, I think the more important aspect is that how the scientists and academics in many of the other countries in horizon project also feel the EU,s stance is wrong and the how the benefits of these projects that effect us all are far more important than the silly political squabbles and posturing by both sides, as they have clearly stated to the EU commission. At the end of the day this sort of thing holds us all back as the human race so I fail to see why so many find it so amusing as they clearly do from the posts in this thread and others that have been posted on this subject in the past. Sad state of the world I guess." which letter is this? I've heard of one to Boris. Is it a recent letter? Unfortunately with political squabbles no one will back down. Will the UK move on NIP for the greater good ... I suspect not. My (biased) view is the current government is seen as a bad faith actor. This isn't a brexit issue but a Tory issue. The risk is it will be seen as a UK issue ... | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
"If only we were a member of the EU. | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon. It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. Oh I am sure HMG does say that, as would the EU if this was the other way round, I think the more important aspect is that how the scientists and academics in many of the other countries in horizon project also feel the EU,s stance is wrong and the how the benefits of these projects that effect us all are far more important than the silly political squabbles and posturing by both sides, as they have clearly stated to the EU commission. At the end of the day this sort of thing holds us all back as the human race so I fail to see why so many find it so amusing as they clearly do from the posts in this thread and others that have been posted on this subject in the past. Sad state of the world I guess.which letter is this? I've heard of one to Boris. Is it a recent letter? Unfortunately with political squabbles no one will back down. Will the UK move on NIP for the greater good ... I suspect not. My (biased) view is the current government is seen as a bad faith actor. This isn't a brexit issue but a Tory issue. The risk is it will be seen as a UK issue ..." It was a letter from various scientists and leading academics who are involved or have a vested interest in the horizon project and was delivered to the European commission. They can see the benefits to the projects involved and stated clearly that the political situation should not interfere with the UK's acceptance into horizon. I have no idea if boris has sent a letter or not. Interesting you mention the UK moving on for the greater good but make no mention of the EU doing the same even though its for the greater good of all its citizens as well as ours, clearly the scientists and academics can see the light just a shame that the EU and UK's governments cannot. | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon. It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. Oh I am sure HMG does say that, as would the EU if this was the other way round, I think the more important aspect is that how the scientists and academics in many of the other countries in horizon project also feel the EU,s stance is wrong and the how the benefits of these projects that effect us all are far more important than the silly political squabbles and posturing by both sides, as they have clearly stated to the EU commission. At the end of the day this sort of thing holds us all back as the human race so I fail to see why so many find it so amusing as they clearly do from the posts in this thread and others that have been posted on this subject in the past. Sad state of the world I guess.which letter is this? I've heard of one to Boris. Is it a recent letter? Unfortunately with political squabbles no one will back down. Will the UK move on NIP for the greater good ... I suspect not. My (biased) view is the current government is seen as a bad faith actor. This isn't a brexit issue but a Tory issue. The risk is it will be seen as a UK issue ... It was a letter from various scientists and leading academics who are involved or have a vested interest in the horizon project and was delivered to the European commission. They can see the benefits to the projects involved and stated clearly that the political situation should not interfere with the UK's acceptance into horizon. I have no idea if boris has sent a letter or not. Interesting you mention the UK moving on for the greater good but make no mention of the EU doing the same even though its for the greater good of all its citizens as well as ours, clearly the scientists and academics can see the light just a shame that the EU and UK's governments cannot." I wasn't clear. I meant a of a letter TO Boris, not FROM I'm not aware of the letter to the EU. If you have a link to tej story, amazing. My Google skills bought up the Boris one. And yes, both sides are bad. Your post was about EU being petty. I was simply showing the UK could solve if they wished as well. | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
If only we were a member of the EU."If only the EEC still existed instead of the EU. | |||
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"The bit I find amusing is the uk does not wish to leave the horizon science project it is currently the EU that is refusing to allow the uk to participate, hence the letters from leading European scientists amongst others that have been sent to the European commission to try to resolve the matter, so I am afraid its just not true that the uk does not want to be a part of horizon. It's true the UK wants to be apart. Has anyone doubted that ? It's true EU are the ones stopping it as it stands. Some could say the EU is holding scientists to ransom and using it as leverage. Probably true. Some could say the EU are right to be wary of entering another contract with the UK, given our willingness to do anything to scrap the NIP. Probably also true. HMG will say they are seperate things and shouldn't be entwinned. That's pure playing to the audience. We know how the eu works. It's a group of countries who chose to collaborate on a number of things. The parliament is just part of that. Oh I am sure HMG does say that, as would the EU if this was the other way round, I think the more important aspect is that how the scientists and academics in many of the other countries in horizon project also feel the EU,s stance is wrong and the how the benefits of these projects that effect us all are far more important than the silly political squabbles and posturing by both sides, as they have clearly stated to the EU commission. At the end of the day this sort of thing holds us all back as the human race so I fail to see why so many find it so amusing as they clearly do from the posts in this thread and others that have been posted on this subject in the past. Sad state of the world I guess.which letter is this? I've heard of one to Boris. Is it a recent letter? Unfortunately with political squabbles no one will back down. Will the UK move on NIP for the greater good ... I suspect not. My (biased) view is the current government is seen as a bad faith actor. This isn't a brexit issue but a Tory issue. The risk is it will be seen as a UK issue ... It was a letter from various scientists and leading academics who are involved or have a vested interest in the horizon project and was delivered to the European commission. They can see the benefits to the projects involved and stated clearly that the political situation should not interfere with the UK's acceptance into horizon. I have no idea if boris has sent a letter or not. Interesting you mention the UK moving on for the greater good but make no mention of the EU doing the same even though its for the greater good of all its citizens as well as ours, clearly the scientists and academics can see the light just a shame that the EU and UK's governments cannot.I wasn't clear. I meant a of a letter TO Boris, not FROM I'm not aware of the letter to the EU. If you have a link to tej story, amazing. My Google skills bought up the Boris one. And yes, both sides are bad. Your post was about EU being petty. I was simply showing the UK could solve if they wished as well. " It was a least a month ago, the story was in the guardian, on the bbc website and various others, if you search EU scientists concerns on horizon project I am sure you will find it mate. My post was not just about the EU being petty in this, both sides are being petty as these projects are more important for the greater good of us all in my opinion, which seems to be the same opinion as the scientists and academics involved in the project. | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
If only we were a member of the EU.
If only the EEC still existed instead of the EU."As mentioned earlier- it doesn't. The reality is that those who voted for Brexit caused this - unknowingly (although the Horizon program was discussed at the time and the UK initially decided that they would go it alone only to reconsider- hence it was written back into the agreement with a caveat). So no surprises then - all there in black and white in that wonderful oven ready deal. We had years of Brexiteers telling us how good it would be to now find that the reality is nothing like the truth. The reality is actually causing harm to the country and individuals. More like project fear. I don't like this any more than the next man but those who voted for this caused it. Well done. | |||
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"There was also a op on here about this at that time, but as I stated it was quite a little while ago so no idea of you can find it on here to be honest." found the letter thanks. Was from universities UK. They stress the importance of being part of horizon and highlight the UK are looking at a breakaway, at which point we pass the point of no return. I agree horizon is important for all. I'd prefer this was decoupled. I can understand why the EU are not decoupling. I agree with the Russel Groups letter to BJ that there is a lack of trust and the NIP situation is ahving a negative impact here. | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
If only we were a member of the EU.
If only the EEC still existed instead of the EU.
As mentioned earlier- it doesn't.
The reality is that those who voted for Brexit caused this - unknowingly (although the Horizon program was discussed at the time and the UK initially decided that they would go it alone only to reconsider- hence it was written back into the agreement with a caveat).
So no surprises then - all there in black and white in that wonderful oven ready deal.
We had years of Brexiteers telling us how good it would be to now find that the reality is nothing like the truth.
The reality is actually causing harm to the country and individuals.
More like project fear.
I don't like this any more than the next man but those who voted for this caused it.
Well done.
"Clearly you have a bee in your bonnet about a democracy vote. Don't be dramatic about it and try to be more of a hassel free type of person. | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
If only we were a member of the EU.
If only the EEC still existed instead of the EU.
As mentioned earlier- it doesn't.
The reality is that those who voted for Brexit caused this - unknowingly (although the Horizon program was discussed at the time and the UK initially decided that they would go it alone only to reconsider- hence it was written back into the agreement with a caveat).
So no surprises then - all there in black and white in that wonderful oven ready deal.
We had years of Brexiteers telling us how good it would be to now find that the reality is nothing like the truth.
The reality is actually causing harm to the country and individuals.
More like project fear.
I don't like this any more than the next man but those who voted for this caused it.
Well done.
Clearly you have a bee in your bonnet about a democracy vote.
Don't be dramatic about it and try to be more of a hassel free type of person."... and there goes the easy flippant response. Glad you are happy with the outcome - thank you for your contribution to causing so much unrest. | |||
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"There was also a op on here about this at that time, but as I stated it was quite a little while ago so no idea of you can find it on here to be honest.found the letter thanks. Was from universities UK. They stress the importance of being part of horizon and highlight the UK are looking at a breakaway, at which point we pass the point of no return. I agree horizon is important for all. I'd prefer this was decoupled. I can understand why the EU are not decoupling. I agree with the Russel Groups letter to BJ that there is a lack of trust and the NIP situation is ahving a negative impact here. " That must be another one then because the one I am referring too was from EU academics, i managed to find the guardian article dated November 2021, signatories in this instance were the European universities association, the Belgium science group and german group u15 which consists of the top 15 medical universities in Germany. | |||
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"The EU should change the name to Horizon EU from Europe. Clearly they are biased against countries in Europe who don't want to part of their federal club but are willing to be part of a science project. Are there any countries who are in Horizon but not in the EU? 14 non-eu countries Fair enough, no bias against them then
Apparently being vindictive against the UK then.
If only we were a member of the EU.
If only the EEC still existed instead of the EU.
As mentioned earlier- it doesn't.
The reality is that those who voted for Brexit caused this - unknowingly (although the Horizon program was discussed at the time and the UK initially decided that they would go it alone only to reconsider- hence it was written back into the agreement with a caveat).
So no surprises then - all there in black and white in that wonderful oven ready deal.
We had years of Brexiteers telling us how good it would be to now find that the reality is nothing like the truth.
The reality is actually causing harm to the country and individuals.
More like project fear.
I don't like this any more than the next man but those who voted for this caused it.
Well done.
"Can you shed some light on exactly what the "caveat" was? as I cannot find any information on this and am interested please. | |||
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