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No wonder I can never see a GP

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS."

Why would any political party do that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that? "

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.)

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.)"

Right.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.)"
fuck me you are on fire with your theories today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.) fuck me you are on fire with your theories today. "

Yes I know you think human suffering + death is funny. I still remember when you laughed about my friend dying alone + the fact I couldn't be there at his funeral.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.) fuck me you are on fire with your theories today.

Yes I know you think human suffering + death is funny. I still remember when you laughed about my friend dying alone + the fact I couldn't be there at his funeral."
Oh dear resorting to the sympathy card now running out of theories.As for laughing about human suffering and death that bit you made up in your head mate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.) fuck me you are on fire with your theories today.

Yes I know you think human suffering + death is funny. I still remember when you laughed about my friend dying alone + the fact I couldn't be there at his funeral.Oh dear resorting to the sympathy card now running out of theories.As for laughing about human suffering and death that bit you made up in your head mate. "

Nope. You literally did it before on another thread + you know it.

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By *ired_upMan
over a year ago

ashton


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years "

Any reason you can think of as to anything that happened in the last 2 years that meant the biggest employer in Europe needed to pivot to doing something different that maybe needed people to organise this?

Also do you have a source for those stats?

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

Any reason you can think of as to anything that happened in the last 2 years that meant the biggest employer in Europe needed to pivot to doing something different that maybe needed people to organise this?

Also do you have a source for those stats? "

It does not take much of a search to find these things out.

Diversity managers on over 75,000 a year ect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In 2000, New Labour’s NHS Plan introduced private provision of medical services into the NHS for the first time in its history to ‘modernise’ and ‘reform’ its practices. Routine planned surgery, diagnostic tests and procedures are contracted out to private sector treatment centres at greater cost than the same care on the NHS.

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By *ired_upMan
over a year ago

ashton


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

Any reason you can think of as to anything that happened in the last 2 years that meant the biggest employer in Europe needed to pivot to doing something different that maybe needed people to organise this?

Also do you have a source for those stats?

It does not take much of a search to find these things out.

Diversity managers on over 75,000 a year ect "

Just say 'no,I'm making it up' as a cursory search for diversity manager jobs NHS gives me three jobs, one in b'ham, one in Kent and another in Batley. They range from 32-50k a year. The top one in Kent. The lowest in Batley.

So check yourself before you wreck yourself and don't ask people to Google stuff if you haven't bothered to do so yourself as you will only be embarrassed/surprised when someone does the most basic of things to check the facts like you should have done.

Now, your stat about twice as many managers? Do you want to back that up?

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

The NHS is over funded and poorly run. It's that simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.)"

Money is above everything, including peoples lives, its the basis of Tories

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"The are I live in there are 2000 patients for every GP.

Another shinning example of how the Tories have intentionally sabotaged the NHS.

Why would any political party do that?

Here's a scenario. Oh no, say the Tories, the NHS isn't working well (because we made sure it's v underfunded, but we won't say that bit.)

So we'll have to privatise this bit + that bit to give it more money to provide the services the public want. (But really we're selling the NHS bit by bit, raking in money for ourselves + mates. In time, if we're lucky, we can hollow out the NHS and make it all private apart from the name. Who cares if the plebs end up having to pay way more or dying if they can't afford care? teehee.)

Money is above everything, including peoples lives, its the basis of Tories"

That's not only offensive to floating voters it also utter rubbish

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

The Tories have had 12 years of uninterrurpted power. In that time, has the standards of delivery of healthcare to the masses remained, improved or worsened?

In my local area, we have one of the highest performing NHS trusts and services are utterly abysmal. The elderly just aren't visited at home unless they're at death's door, routine medical procedures are done at a place suitable to the NHS and not the patient, if you need your ears suctioned, there's a good chance you'll be sent to a place 40 minutes from where you live, even if you live in one of the larger towns. People are being discharged from hospital despite very clearly not being well enough to support themselves at home, with minimal support. Again, this is in one of the highest performing trusts in the country.

The tories have been in power 12 years, more than likely 14 come the next GE. If what is happening here is occuring in more deprived areas, or worse, what does that say about the governing party? 12 years, 3 different PMs, most say it should be 4 but would it make that much difference to the NHS?

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

Employ more doctors and nurses and get rid of the bulk of admin staff. Simples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Employ more doctors and nurses and get rid of the bulk of admin staff. Simples. "

Can someone please draw a diagram on how organisation and administration work for Mitzi?, preferably with crayons in different shades of blue?

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

"

I think you find simple drawings are more your level .

You remove administration you leave the bulk of paperwork on Doctors and nurses, who then cannot do the job they are paid to do, just like what they did with the police when the Tories removed their support staff.

People gotta realise, you knock the support structure away the whole building collapses. Unless that is the intention in the first place, tories seem to have such idiotic ways of thinking.

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By *iman2100Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"In 2000, New Labour’s NHS Plan introduced private provision of medical services into the NHS for the first time in its history to ‘modernise’ and ‘reform’ its practices. Routine planned surgery, diagnostic tests and procedures are contracted out to private sector treatment centres at greater cost than the same care on the NHS."

All GPs are private partnerships and/or companies paid by the Govt. Many private hospitals provide day surgery where the NHS cannot. So long as it is still free at the point of use why shouldn't we blend the NHS with private?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In 2000, New Labour’s NHS Plan introduced private provision of medical services into the NHS for the first time in its history to ‘modernise’ and ‘reform’ its practices. Routine planned surgery, diagnostic tests and procedures are contracted out to private sector treatment centres at greater cost than the same care on the NHS.

All GPs are private partnerships and/or companies paid by the Govt. Many private hospitals provide day surgery where the NHS cannot. So long as it is still free at the point of use why shouldn't we blend the NHS with private? "

I actually agree with your last sentence. I made the post in response to the usual "the Tories are selling off the NHS" trope, which is, in reality, a sensible move with some aspects of the service, but one that Labour supporters always seem so frightened of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

"

Here's a little thought expriment for you. Imagine there are no admin staff in the NHS (or just not enough of them, as ou seem to want). So lots of admin has to be done by doctors + nurses.

If doctors and nurses spend all their time doing admin, when do you expect them to actually attend to any patients?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS from its inception has been a private / Public partnership service . All GPs are private businesses .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The NHS from its inception has been a private / Public partnership service . All GPs are private businesses . "

Same thing for dentists.

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough


"If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

I think you find simple drawings are more your level .

You remove administration you leave the bulk of paperwork on Doctors and nurses, who then cannot do the job they are paid to do, just like what they did with the police when the Tories removed their support staff.

People gotta realise, you knock the support structure away the whole building collapses. Unless that is the intention in the first place, tories seem to have such idiotic ways of thinking.

"

Everything is fine on computers, and all medical staff are computer literate. It takes seconds to write basic stuff. There is no point in wasting money on admin/managers etc. The days of secretarial support staff are well and truly over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

I think you find simple drawings are more your level .

You remove administration you leave the bulk of paperwork on Doctors and nurses, who then cannot do the job they are paid to do, just like what they did with the police when the Tories removed their support staff.

People gotta realise, you knock the support structure away the whole building collapses. Unless that is the intention in the first place, tories seem to have such idiotic ways of thinking.

Everything is fine on computers, and all medical staff are computer literate. It takes seconds to write basic stuff. There is no point in wasting money on admin/managers etc. The days of secretarial support staff are well and truly over. "

The vast organisation of the NHS needs no admin staff? Good to know

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

Have a look at how many Tory MPs, including Ministers, have links to private health companies.

Also how much has been donated to the Tory party by people with interests in private health companies.

That may help explain the behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

I think you find simple drawings are more your level .

You remove administration you leave the bulk of paperwork on Doctors and nurses, who then cannot do the job they are paid to do, just like what they did with the police when the Tories removed their support staff.

People gotta realise, you knock the support structure away the whole building collapses. Unless that is the intention in the first place, tories seem to have such idiotic ways of thinking.

Everything is fine on computers, and all medical staff are computer literate. It takes seconds to write basic stuff. There is no point in wasting money on admin/managers etc. The days of secretarial support staff are well and truly over. "

What about facilities management? Buildings need maintenance and repair, or IT system administration, or orderlies? What about kitchen staff, cleaners and who will manage those workers? And accounting and budget allocation? Its not as simple as you’d want it to be. You need management.

The NHS isn’t just doctors and nurses it’s everything to support the work they do also.

Going around and saying sack this and pay more here shows less awareness about the whole NHS in general.

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth


"If crayons are your level…

Do admin staff actually treat patients? No.

Doctors and nurses do.

I think you find simple drawings are more your level .

You remove administration you leave the bulk of paperwork on Doctors and nurses, who then cannot do the job they are paid to do, just like what they did with the police when the Tories removed their support staff.

People gotta realise, you knock the support structure away the whole building collapses. Unless that is the intention in the first place, tories seem to have such idiotic ways of thinking.

Everything is fine on computers, and all medical staff are computer literate. It takes seconds to write basic stuff. There is no point in wasting money on admin/managers etc. The days of secretarial support staff are well and truly over. "

Doctors already do admin work. Admin staff ensure this is minimal. The checks and balances are there for a reason and doing away with it because 'admin don't see patients' is a grotesque oversimplification. There is an argument for less of them, admin staff account for over 40% of the NHS, while in Germany that figure is, off the top of my head, somewhere around a third of healthcare staff. Sacking that percentage of staff and hiring as many doctors as possible won't solve the chronic shortages that exist within the system. Hospital beds, doctors, nurses, carers, you name it, we need it. In addition to that, sacking off that many admin staff will have consequences. You'll increase the workload on people who already have too much, admin staff work incredibly hard, many long into the night when they get home, just sacking a few of them for the sake of efficiency is just counter-productive nonsense.

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By *TMA that man againMan
over a year ago

worester


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years "

This...and if you bother to look at facts, rather than politicising everything actual spending has increased more than in decades under government's of any colour.

My daughter is a GP and massively frustrated by the "more sherriff's than cowboys" structure of the NHS. Her partner is a hospital surgeon....there are 3 managers for every doctor in his trust....ridiculous!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

This...and if you bother to look at facts, rather than politicising everything actual spending has increased more than in decades under government's of any colour.

My daughter is a GP and massively frustrated by the "more sherriff's than cowboys" structure of the NHS. Her partner is a hospital surgeon....there are 3 managers for every doctor in his trust....ridiculous!!"

Of course! Doctors do not manage hundreds of support staff, medical staff look after patients not the structures of the NHS. That’s called organisation. The problem is that there is a chronic shortage of medical practitioners in the UK, it difficult to recruit from abroad due to the hostile immigration policies of the Home office and shitty Patel , and it will take years to train up people to cover the shortfall now.

The tories are to blame for all this, because of the ideological beliefs and simplistic views.

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By *inkywife1981Couple
over a year ago

A town near you

Is there more competition for doctors appointments due to lack of doctors or growing population or perhaps both

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

This...and if you bother to look at facts, rather than politicising everything actual spending has increased more than in decades under government's of any colour.

My daughter is a GP and massively frustrated by the "more sherriff's than cowboys" structure of the NHS. Her partner is a hospital surgeon....there are 3 managers for every doctor in his trust....ridiculous!!

Of course! Doctors do not manage hundreds of support staff, medical staff look after patients not the structures of the NHS. That’s called organisation. The problem is that there is a chronic shortage of medical practitioners in the UK, it difficult to recruit from abroad due to the hostile immigration policies of the Home office and shitty Patel , and it will take years to train up people to cover the shortfall now.

The tories are to blame for all this, because of the ideological beliefs and simplistic views.

"

No, it’s because admin staff/managers etc are of no use at all. Doctors and nurses are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

This...and if you bother to look at facts, rather than politicising everything actual spending has increased more than in decades under government's of any colour.

My daughter is a GP and massively frustrated by the "more sherriff's than cowboys" structure of the NHS. Her partner is a hospital surgeon....there are 3 managers for every doctor in his trust....ridiculous!!

Of course! Doctors do not manage hundreds of support staff, medical staff look after patients not the structures of the NHS. That’s called organisation. The problem is that there is a chronic shortage of medical practitioners in the UK, it difficult to recruit from abroad due to the hostile immigration policies of the Home office and shitty Patel , and it will take years to train up people to cover the shortfall now.

The tories are to blame for all this, because of the ideological beliefs and simplistic views.

No, it’s because admin staff/managers etc are of no use at all. Doctors and nurses are. "

I really think you don't understand that huge organisations necessitate lots of admin jobs...

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

Before all the nonsense bought by Labour for having managers, umpteen admin staff, the Matron would be in charge of the hospital. Was there as much wastage of NHS funding? No. Computers were not as common then nor as sophisticated. It takes seconds for nurses/doctors etc to take notes (voice technology available too).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mitzi maybe stop deepthroating tabloids at every opportunity + actually think for yourself on occasion. You may see that substantial admin is an inevitable consequence of large organisations...

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

Do you know how many secretaries and admin staff are NOT employed by large organisations anymore? Everything is digital, and everyone os computer literate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you know how many secretaries and admin staff are NOT employed by large organisations anymore? Everything is digital, and everyone os computer literate. "

Mitzi you're simply wrong. Yes there are computers now, but that still doesn't change the fact large organisations need large admin.

But whatever. Just rant about reality.

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

I would argue it only appears there are too many admin staff, because of the chronic labour shortages on the frontline. If we had as many frontline staff as Germany did, in terms of hospital beds and doctors per capita, the percentage of admin staff would level out, more than likely similar to levels similar on the continent. So the argument doesn't really stack up. Unless you do away with admin staff altogether, which is like telling the army it doesn't need a logistics corps. Using the same logic, lorry drivers don't fight battles, people with guns do. Do away with the logistics corps and recruit more into the infantry. It's an absolute nonsense.

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By *aidForSharingWoman
over a year ago

Lancashire

It's so badly run and wasteful in every area. For a 2 min x-ray I was told because I'd come in clothes with a zip (not informed beforehand) I had to change into a gown. All were laundered and pressed after one use. When I tried to point out that patients should be told not to wear metal, there was no one interested or available- including the so-called Suggestions site.

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By *ired_upMan
over a year ago

ashton


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

This...and if you bother to look at facts, rather than politicising everything actual spending has increased more than in decades under government's of any colour.

My daughter is a GP and massively frustrated by the "more sherriff's than cowboys" structure of the NHS. Her partner is a hospital surgeon....there are 3 managers for every doctor in his trust....ridiculous!!"

That's not true about spending at all increasing. Google BBC news ten charts that show why NHS is in trouble. You will see the increase in spending has dropped in recent years .

I don't know why people ask us to look at the facts when if we don't will disprove their own point.

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By *achelfunCouple
over a year ago

Leeds


"The NHS is not underfunded it’s badly run

They have hired 2x more office and managerial staff than nurses and frontline staff in the last 2 years

This...and if you bother to look at facts, rather than politicising everything actual spending has increased more than in decades under government's of any colour.

My daughter is a GP and massively frustrated by the "more sherriff's than cowboys" structure of the NHS. Her partner is a hospital surgeon....there are 3 managers for every doctor in his trust....ridiculous!!

That's not true about spending at all increasing. Google BBC news ten charts that show why NHS is in trouble. You will see the increase in spending has dropped in recent years .

I don't know why people ask us to look at the facts when if we don't will disprove their own point. "

I am confused, did you read the report you shared?

It clearly states in the first 2 points that spending and percentage of budget spend have increased consistently.

In the conclusion it qualifies this by saying the amount of increase is less than under the previous Labour government 4% compared to 7% (approx).

So no side can claim victory on whether spending has increased or decreased. Thats politics, you take your perspective and pretty much stick with it! This is why the real issues go untackled.

The meat of the article actually talks about some of the real issues, beyond spending, that place an increased strain on the NHS. Such as obesity, ageing population, increase in medication prices, lack of doctors and nurse etc.

It is these we need to address, rather than getting bogged down in tit for tat, my dad's bigger than your dad nonsense

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The meat of the article actually talks about some of the real issues, beyond spending, that place an increased strain on the NHS. Such as obesity, ageing population, increase in medication prices, lack of doctors and nurse etc.

It is these we need to address, rather than getting bogged down in tit for tat, my dad's bigger than your dad nonsense

"

Sounds like your dada is causing more issues with the NHS than my dad ..

It's a great article to show the issues.... The cost per person is flying up .... Yet the amount invested isn't close to increasing at the same rate...

We are running out of street to kick this can down ...

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