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Perception of Russia

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?

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By *eneralPMan
over a year ago

other

Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

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By *utcock61Man
over a year ago

glasgow

Agree,well spoken.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Russian people have been mostly brain washed by state controlled media, I think it’s a bit harsh to hold them all accountable for what’s happening in Ukraine. That would be like us Brits being held accountable for the illegal invasion of Iraq by Blair and Bush.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

I think asking the citizens of Ukraine would be more prudent right now

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating "

Is the minority right.. ?

Step away and look again...

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity


"The Russian people have been mostly brain washed by state controlled media, I think it’s a bit harsh to hold them all accountable for what’s happening in Ukraine. That would be like us Brits being held accountable for the illegal invasion of Iraq by Blair and Bush. "

Absolutely this

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By *oeBeansMan
over a year ago

Derby


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating "

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The Russian people have been mostly brain washed by state controlled media, I think it’s a bit harsh to hold them all accountable for what’s happening in Ukraine. That would be like us Brits being held accountable for the illegal invasion of Iraq by Blair and Bush. "

And we are not brainwashed by our media?

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Are threads like these warranting a respobse really? I think not, I am out.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Here is the point.. even our media say that within Ukraine there were pro Russian areas..

If this is true then have they been conquered or liberated...

I don't know.. but do you.. ?

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By *eneralPMan
over a year ago

other


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?"

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

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By *oeBeansMan
over a year ago

Derby


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t. "

You have? All of them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think putin needs to watch rocky 4 and behave

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

Putin was elected by 77% of Russians in the full knowledge of his nationalist agenda and belligerent policies. They are not innocent bystanders.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Russian people have been mostly brain washed by state controlled media, I think it’s a bit harsh to hold them all accountable for what’s happening in Ukraine. That would be like us Brits being held accountable for the illegal invasion of Iraq by Blair and Bush.

And we are not brainwashed by our media?"

Yeah, that’s my point, we were brainwashed into thinking they were doing the right thing by invading Iraq at the time. At least we do have access to different views from our media and we’re not just fed one government backed line, but we’re still very susceptible to being led by the media and that’s always going to be the case unfortunately. The Murdoch documentary on BBC highlights this perfectly.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

All the Russians I know are incredibly embarrassed about the actions of Putin and ditto the Belarusians and the actions of Lukashenko. They want nothing to do with it and completely support Ukraine. One Russian guy I know has been passing himself off as German for years because he's not wanted to be associated with the various actions of Russia over recent years. The state control of media and education there is so total, and has been to a greater or lesser extent for decades, that it's unsurprising that a large majority have no idea what's really going on.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Putin was elected by 77% of Russians in the full knowledge of his nationalist agenda and belligerent policies. They are not innocent bystanders."

I’m not sure how fair their elections are…..

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By *eneralPMan
over a year ago

other


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

You have? All of them?"

The question wasn’t aimed at the Russian people but Russia in general. Hence my response.

To be honest, if your intellect can’t stretch to understanding basic difference between good and bad then the conversation is pointless.

During WW2 Lithuania was occupied periodically by Germany and then Russia. Lithuanians much preferred the occupation by the Germans because they were human and treated people with dignity, something not repeated by the Russians.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer "

Women, children and elderly people have been r@ped by Russian troops, Tom. Is this something to jest about and make light of? No, it is not.

It's one thing to take the proverbial out of animal stories or whatever, but you're poking fun at an incredibly serious situation. Just don't.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"One Russian guy I know has been passing himself off as German for years because he's not wanted to be associated with the various actions of Russia "

This sounds like an episode of Allo Allo or Fawlty Towers...

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

Women, children and elderly people have been r@ped by Russian troops, Tom. Is this something to jest about and make light of? No, it is not.

It's one thing to take the proverbial out of animal stories or whatever, but you're poking fun at an incredibly serious situation. Just don't. "

Agreed

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?"

Yes

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

Women, children and elderly people have been r@ped by Russian troops, Tom. Is this something to jest about and make light of? No, it is not.

It's one thing to take the proverbial out of animal stories or whatever, but you're poking fun at an incredibly serious situation. Just don't. "

Don't put words in my mouth please...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer "

These are all consequences of war unfortunately, and tend to achieve absolutely nothing.

I’m always confused by the term ‘war crimes’, it implies there’s a legal and fair way to invade a country and kill innocent people. Who sat down and decided what you can and can’t do during war? Surely if you’re killing innocent people it’s a crime no matter how you do it.

Like the Iraq invasion became illegal when we found out they didn’t actually have weapons of mass destruction but why was it legal when we thought they did? Surely that’s their right as an independent country to have them and not for leaders of other countries to decide they can’t.

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By *oeBeansMan
over a year ago

Derby


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

You have? All of them?

The question wasn’t aimed at the Russian people but Russia in general. Hence my response.

To be honest, if your intellect can’t stretch to understanding basic difference between good and bad then the conversation is pointless.

During WW2 Lithuania was occupied periodically by Germany and then Russia. Lithuanians much preferred the occupation by the Germans because they were human and treated people with dignity, something not repeated by the Russians. "

And clearly you can't understand the basic concept of differentiating the actions of a group of people compared to the majority. As you can make this quite clear distinction, I'm not going to bite anymore and waste my time arguing with a stranger on the internet. Have a good evening, but not really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

Women, children and elderly people have been r@ped by Russian troops, Tom. Is this something to jest about and make light of? No, it is not.

It's one thing to take the proverbial out of animal stories or whatever, but you're poking fun at an incredibly serious situation. Just don't. "

What part of what he said makes you think he was making light of the situation? I got completely the opposite impression from what he said, he seems quite concerned and saddened by what’s going on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

Women, children and elderly people have been r@ped by Russian troops, Tom. Is this something to jest about and make light of? No, it is not.

It's one thing to take the proverbial out of animal stories or whatever, but you're poking fun at an incredibly serious situation. Just don't.

Agreed "

Absolutely this

The video of the young parents bringing in their baby in to a and e (not much younger than our son) after the family were caught in a blast is fucking heat breaking. The mothers cries when she's told the her baby didn't make it will haunt me.

KJ

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

[Removed by poster at 30/05/22 21:04:31]

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough


"

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer "

A newspaper that had zero trust from the people

(Fancy that? People distrusting the media)

“There is no truth in news and no news in truth” (Russian Izvestia and Pravda adage)

The Soviet Union had two important propaganda newspapers. Pravda ("truth") was the communist party newspaper and was published between 1912 and 1991. Izvestia ("news") was the government newspaper and was published between 1917 and 1991.

“There is in pravda in Izvestia, and no izvestia in Pravda.”

(’There is no truth in news, and no news in truth.")

The joke was cited in English at least as early as September 1934, in a letter to the Pittsburgh (PA) Post-Gazette:

Wikipedia: Pravda

Pravda (Russian: ??????; IPA: ['pravd?], “Truth") is a Russian broadsheet newspaper, formerly the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, when it was one of the most influential papers in the country with a circulation of 11 million.

The newspaper began publication on 5 May 1912 in the Russian Empire and emerged as a leading newspaper of the Soviet Union after the October Revolution. The newspaper was an organ of the Central Committee of the CPSU between 1912 and 1991.

(...)

As the names of the main Communist newspaper and the main Soviet newspaper, Pravda and Izvestia, meant “the truth” and “the news” respectively, a popular saying was “there’s no truth in Pravda and no news in Izvestia”.

Wikipedia: Izvestia

Izvestia (Russian: ????????; IPA: [?z'v?es?t??j?]) is a long-running high-circulation daily broadsheet newspaper in Russia. It was a newspaper of record in the Soviet Union from 1917 until the dissolution of the USSR in 1991.

The word izvestiya in Russian means “delivered messages”, derived from the verb izveshchat ("to inform”, “to notify"). In the context of newspapers it is usually translated as “news” or “reports”.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

So called war crimes on both sides are coming to light. Same as any war.. whatever the nationality, whatever the cause, it's a dirty business..

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

Women, children and elderly people have been r@ped by Russian troops, Tom. Is this something to jest about and make light of? No, it is not.

It's one thing to take the proverbial out of animal stories or whatever, but you're poking fun at an incredibly serious situation. Just don't.

What part of what he said makes you think he was making light of the situation? I got completely the opposite impression from what he said, he seems quite concerned and saddened by what’s going on. "

I just ignore the subjective opinionated.. they can just jog on...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

You have? All of them?

The question wasn’t aimed at the Russian people but Russia in general. Hence my response.

To be honest, if your intellect can’t stretch to understanding basic difference between good and bad then the conversation is pointless.

During WW2 Lithuania was occupied periodically by Germany and then Russia. Lithuanians much preferred the occupation by the Germans because they were human and treated people with dignity, something not repeated by the Russians. "

My Grandfather’s mom and 18 year old brother were killed by the Germans during WW2 and he had to flee his home country on foot, travelling only at night because he’d have been killed if anyone had seen him, just because they were Jewish. I don’t think that’s being human and treating people with dignity. They might not have been as bad as the Russians but I resent anyone complimenting the German’s behaviour during WW2.

Ask the Dutch whether they were treated with dignity by the Germans?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

You have? All of them?

The question wasn’t aimed at the Russian people but Russia in general. Hence my response.

To be honest, if your intellect can’t stretch to understanding basic difference between good and bad then the conversation is pointless.

During WW2 Lithuania was occupied periodically by Germany and then Russia. Lithuanians much preferred the occupation by the Germans because they were human and treated people with dignity, something not repeated by the Russians.

My Grandfather’s mom and 18 year old brother were killed by the Germans during WW2 and he had to flee his home country on foot, travelling only at night because he’d have been killed if anyone had seen him, just because they were Jewish. I don’t think that’s being human and treating people with dignity. They might not have been as bad as the Russians but I resent anyone complimenting the German’s behaviour during WW2.

Ask the Dutch whether they were treated with dignity by the Germans?"

My Dutch Jewish ancestors were all murdered by the German occupiers and Dutch collaborators, so I'm going with NO.

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By *eneralPMan
over a year ago

other


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

You have? All of them?

The question wasn’t aimed at the Russian people but Russia in general. Hence my response.

To be honest, if your intellect can’t stretch to understanding basic difference between good and bad then the conversation is pointless.

During WW2 Lithuania was occupied periodically by Germany and then Russia. Lithuanians much preferred the occupation by the Germans because they were human and treated people with dignity, something not repeated by the Russians.

And clearly you can't understand the basic concept of differentiating the actions of a group of people compared to the majority. As you can make this quite clear distinction, I'm not going to bite anymore and waste my time arguing with a stranger on the internet. Have a good evening, but not really "

Why would I want to differentiate the silent and passive majority from the idiots committing unspeakable war crimes?

What experience of Russia and Russians do you have?

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don’t even dare suggest Russia is full of nice, kind and caring people.

What they have done it Ukraine is beyond comprehension. The countries you have mentioned are largely anti-democratic and west hating

But ideally you want to to separate the government from its people, right?

Is it the people or the government doing unspeakable things to children? Oh yeah it’s the Russian soldiers.

To understand Russian people you have to have lived with them or been occupied by them and I hazard a guess that you haven’t.

You have? All of them?

The question wasn’t aimed at the Russian people but Russia in general. Hence my response.

To be honest, if your intellect can’t stretch to understanding basic difference between good and bad then the conversation is pointless.

During WW2 Lithuania was occupied periodically by Germany and then Russia. Lithuanians much preferred the occupation by the Germans because they were human and treated people with dignity, something not repeated by the Russians.

My Grandfather’s mom and 18 year old brother were killed by the Germans during WW2 and he had to flee his home country on foot, travelling only at night because he’d have been killed if anyone had seen him, just because they were Jewish. I don’t think that’s being human and treating people with dignity. They might not have been as bad as the Russians but I resent anyone complimenting the German’s behaviour during WW2.

Ask the Dutch whether they were treated with dignity by the Germans?

My Dutch Jewish ancestors were all murdered by the German occupiers and Dutch collaborators, so I'm going with NO. "

I’m sorry to hear that, I think you’re right to go with NO.

I lived in Holland for a while and they’re still really thankful of the British for liberating them, it’s one of the few places in Europe we’re liked haha. The project I was working on was being installed in a factory in Cologne so every now and then someone from the office would have to go to Germany and there was a running joke that they would say to the person going to ask the Germans for their bikes back. Im not making light of the situation…I’m just highlighting that they clearly haven’t forgotten what the Germans did to them.

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By *eneralPMan
over a year ago

other


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere.. "

With respect, are you able to understand that different countries have different political allegiances depending on geography, political leaning, who will sell them weapons, historic agreements and it’s generally has nothing to do with how they treat people.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


" My Grandfather’s mom and 18 year old brother were killed by the Germans during WW2 and he had to flee his home country on foot, travelling only at night because he’d have been killed if anyone had seen him, just because they were Jewish. I don’t think that’s being human and treating people with dignity. They might not have been as bad as the Russians but I resent anyone complimenting the German’s behaviour during WW2.

Ask the Dutch whether they were treated with dignity by the Germans?

My Dutch Jewish ancestors were all murdered by the German occupiers and Dutch collaborators, so I'm going with NO.

I’m sorry to hear that, I think you’re right to go with NO.

I lived in Holland for a while and they’re still really thankful of the British for liberating them, it’s one of the few places in Europe we’re liked haha. The project I was working on was being installed in a factory in Cologne so every now and then someone from the office would have to go to Germany and there was a running joke that they would say to the person going to ask the Germans for their bikes back. Im not making light of the situation…I’m just highlighting that they clearly haven’t forgotten what the Germans did to them. "

We're going to a commemoration thingy in the Netherlands soon. One of my relatives is being specifically remembered and we've been invited to represent the family.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere.. "

Sorry for taking it off topic OP, just going with the flow of the conversation.

It’s actually hard to answer your question without any knowledge of what information people in other countries have available to them and what their historic relationship is with Russia. I think it’s pretty normal for different countries to have different opinions on things though, just because we live in different environments and cultures. Maybe we’re the ones being given false information and have the wrong opinion…we don’t know.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere..

With respect, are you able to understand that different countries have different political allegiances depending on geography, political leaning, who will sell them weapons, historic agreements and it’s generally has nothing to do with how they treat people. "

An objective post at last thank you. I agree with you. Some of these science types cannot be objective which seems to fly in the face of what they claim to represent..

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere..

Sorry for taking it off topic OP, just going with the flow of the conversation.

It’s actually hard to answer your question without any knowledge of what information people in other countries have available to them and what their historic relationship is with Russia. I think it’s pretty normal for different countries to have different opinions on things though, just because we live in different environments and cultures. Maybe we’re the ones being given false information and have the wrong opinion…we don’t know. "

Exactly my point in your last sentence..

Those overcome with sentiment and emotion should read it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" My Grandfather’s mom and 18 year old brother were killed by the Germans during WW2 and he had to flee his home country on foot, travelling only at night because he’d have been killed if anyone had seen him, just because they were Jewish. I don’t think that’s being human and treating people with dignity. They might not have been as bad as the Russians but I resent anyone complimenting the German’s behaviour during WW2.

Ask the Dutch whether they were treated with dignity by the Germans?

My Dutch Jewish ancestors were all murdered by the German occupiers and Dutch collaborators, so I'm going with NO.

I’m sorry to hear that, I think you’re right to go with NO.

I lived in Holland for a while and they’re still really thankful of the British for liberating them, it’s one of the few places in Europe we’re liked haha. The project I was working on was being installed in a factory in Cologne so every now and then someone from the office would have to go to Germany and there was a running joke that they would say to the person going to ask the Germans for their bikes back. Im not making light of the situation…I’m just highlighting that they clearly haven’t forgotten what the Germans did to them.

We're going to a commemoration thingy in the Netherlands soon. One of my relatives is being specifically remembered and we've been invited to represent the family. "

That’ll be an amazing experience I’m sure, it’s great that they still commemorate people who died. There are stoplesteinas laid outside the house where my grandfather grew up, where his mom and brother were taken from, to commemorate them. They have their names, date of birth, date they were taken and where they died stamped on them. I went to Berlin to see them years ago, it was very moving but I’m so grateful that someone did that in their memory.

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

[Removed by poster at 30/05/22 21:33:28]

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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

I’ve met both Russians and Ukrainians through business and they are the same as us, just wanting the best for themselves and their families.

Unfortunately the difference is the freedom of the press and therefore the absence of the truth.

The Russians I met definitely didn’t believe Putin won the last vote legally but were resigned to the fact there us no opposition allowed.

The Ukrainians agreed their senior officials are often bribed just the same as the Russians but the truth of what’s happening is easier to find,

As for aggression this rests solely with Putin and his mindless desire for the USSR to be rebuilt.

The U.K. is complicit in his rise by aiding his rich supporters for decades. Both Tory and labour guilty equally.

We are reaping the whirlwind partly due to the greed of the city, politicians here and all their entourage.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"The Russian people have been mostly brain washed by state controlled media, I think it’s a bit harsh to hold them all accountable for what’s happening in Ukraine. That would be like us Brits being held accountable for the illegal invasion of Iraq by Blair and Bush.

And we are not brainwashed by our media?"

There is a crucial difference.

Here people can curate their own news and only read the news that suits their agenda. They groom and brainwash themselves.

In Russia, it is hard to even find an alternative to the State news outlets. Hence there is only one story out there and nothing to challenge that narrative.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?"

I stopped reading when you said the guardian is far left. Lol .

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?

I stopped reading when you said the guardian is far left. Lol . "

Well give the article a read and feedback plz

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Putin was elected by 77% of Russians in the full knowledge of his nationalist agenda and belligerent policies. They are not innocent bystanders."

Oh dear. You are assuming the elections weren’t rigged in any way right?

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere.. "

I think you may be missing the irony in who supports Putin’s Government in Russia (note I separated the citizens and focused on the Govt). Many South American and African countries are governed by totalitarian regimes (maybe with a veneer of democracy), and China...well there you go.

Birds of a feather and all that.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere..

I think you may be missing the irony in who supports Putin’s Government in Russia (note I separated the citizens and focused on the Govt). Many South American and African countries are governed by totalitarian regimes (maybe with a veneer of democracy), and China...well there you go.

Birds of a feather and all that."

At last a voice of reason..

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
over a year ago

Gilfach


"I’m always confused by the term ‘war crimes’, it implies there’s a legal and fair way to invade a country and kill innocent people. Who sat down and decided what you can and can’t do during war?"

The Geneva Conventions lay down what can and can't be done in a war. That's where the definitions of war crimes can be found.

Russia is a signatory to most, but not all, of the conventions.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"I’m always confused by the term ‘war crimes’, it implies there’s a legal and fair way to invade a country and kill innocent people. Who sat down and decided what you can and can’t do during war?

The Geneva Conventions lay down what can and can't be done in a war. That's where the definitions of war crimes can be found.

Russia is a signatory to most, but not all, of the conventions."

They did not sign up to ban cluster bombs apparently..

And then reports of indiscriminate carpet bombing. The same tactic used in Dresden and in Iraq ...by who?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

I don't know the answer

These are all consequences of war unfortunately, and tend to achieve absolutely nothing.

I’m always confused by the term ‘war crimes’, it implies there’s a legal and fair way to invade a country and kill innocent people. Who sat down and decided what you can and can’t do during war? Surely if you’re killing innocent people it’s a crime no matter how you do it.

Like the Iraq invasion became illegal when we found out they didn’t actually have weapons of mass destruction but why was it legal when we thought they did? Surely that’s their right as an independent country to have them and not for leaders of other countries to decide they can’t. "

So using your analogy those who prosecuted the war against the Nazi regime in 1939 are in fact war criminals? If so I would remind you that your right to comment freely on this forum is entirely down to those prosecutors.

However I do agree that the Bush / Blair Initiated war was illegal. I took the time to write to the prime minister stating that he acted illegally and at the same time resigning my Labour Party membership. Blair should have been brought before the UK judiciary and face justice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m always confused by the term ‘war crimes’, it implies there’s a legal and fair way to invade a country and kill innocent people. Who sat down and decided what you can and can’t do during war?

The Geneva Conventions lay down what can and can't be done in a war. That's where the definitions of war crimes can be found.

Russia is a signatory to most, but not all, of the conventions.

They did not sign up to ban cluster bombs apparently..

And then reports of indiscriminate carpet bombing. The same tactic used in Dresden and in Iraq ...by who?

"

By whom.

War! What is good for, absolutely nothing, I’ll say it again!

ET to offer the allied bombing in the last war to what Russia is doing now is utterly ridiculous. If Adolf Hitler had succeeded in his 1000 year Reich plan you would be eating bratwurst sausage for dinner wearing Lederhosen On your Saturday night out to the local book burning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere..

I think you may be missing the irony in who supports Putin’s Government in Russia (note I separated the citizens and focused on the Govt). Many South American and African countries are governed by totalitarian regimes (maybe with a veneer of democracy), and China...well there you go.

Birds of a feather and all that.

At last a voice of reason.. "

ET don’t forget the daily Mail!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?"

The Guardian is a quality newspaper that usually try’s to report the facts and it prides itself on investigative journalism. The Guardian is owned by The Scott Trust, whose core purpose is to ensure the financial and editorial independence Unlike those papers owned by an Australian megalomaniac who has his own agenda.

I read a few papers to try and get a balanced view of the topics of the day. Try ET it may surprise you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Might be something to do with distance

Didn't hear too many countries here in Europe crying about Yemen and Afghanistan for example

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Reports of hospitals and schools bombed by Russia and cries of ear crimes.. similar reports with the so called war on ter ror and reported differently ..

What is the Truth?

Do they never carpet bombed Iraq?

I don't know the answer

These are all consequences of war unfortunately, and tend to achieve absolutely nothing.

I’m always confused by the term ‘war crimes’, it implies there’s a legal and fair way to invade a country and kill innocent people. Who sat down and decided what you can and can’t do during war? Surely if you’re killing innocent people it’s a crime no matter how you do it.

Like the Iraq invasion became illegal when we found out they didn’t actually have weapons of mass destruction but why was it legal when we thought they did? Surely that’s their right as an independent country to have them and not for leaders of other countries to decide they can’t.

So using your analogy those who prosecuted the war against the Nazi regime in 1939 are in fact war criminals? If so I would remind you that your right to comment freely on this forum is entirely down to those prosecutors.

However I do agree that the Bush / Blair Initiated war was illegal. I took the time to write to the prime minister stating that he acted illegally and at the same time resigning my Labour Party membership. Blair should have been brought before the UK judiciary and face justice."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To the people of Venezuela for example the USA is every bit as bad as Russia. Worse in fact.

The US staged a coup to overthrow Chavez which failed. There's actually a great documentary about this by some Irish filmmakers who were inside the palace when it was stormed called The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (aka Chavez: Inside the Coup) that's well worth tracking down.

Then they tired to remove Maduro and replace with their own non democratically elected man,Juan Guaidó.

The US then hit them with sanctions that crippled the country and it was Russia who helped them out.

It's more complex than that but that's the general jist.

So taking all that into account is it any wonder that some South American countries wouldn't have the same distrust of Russia that the US and the West have.

The world is divided into political and military alliances unfortunately and double standards is the norm.

Just recently the US said it would take military action against the Solomon Islands if they allowed China to build bases there.

Sounds like Ukraine's right to join NATO doesn't it?

Like I said double standards....

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?

The Guardian is a quality newspaper that usually try’s to report the facts and it prides itself on investigative journalism. The Guardian is owned by The Scott Trust, whose core purpose is to ensure the financial and editorial independence Unlike those papers owned by an Australian megalomaniac who has his own agenda.

I read a few papers to try and get a balanced view of the topics of the day. Try ET it may surprise you!"

lolz!!! The Guardian, a quality paper??? It’s the commercial arm of the socialist worker. Utter garbage.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?

The Guardian is a quality newspaper that usually try’s to report the facts and it prides itself on investigative journalism. The Guardian is owned by The Scott Trust, whose core purpose is to ensure the financial and editorial independence Unlike those papers owned by an Australian megalomaniac who has his own agenda.

I read a few papers to try and get a balanced view of the topics of the day. Try ET it may surprise you!

lolz!!! The Guardian, a quality paper??? It’s the commercial arm of the socialist worker. Utter garbage. "

And yet you constantly believe articles in and link to the Daily Heil. You, a Jewish person who likes accusing people of being anti-semitic if they criticise Israel. You cite the Daily Heil which is owned by Lord Rothermere whose family publicly supported Oswald Mosely and the Black Shirts and the former Lord Rothermere wrote articles published in the Daily Heil singing their praises...weird!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere.. "

I think tom is pouring petrol onto a fire for his own amusement… and then trying to claim innocence

Tom… list the countries who voted against or abstained from the un resolution against Russia for the attack in Ukraine… because I think you are confusing the issue over which countries are condemning and which countries are sanctioning

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The thread is about the Guardian article that suggests that so called western liberal democracies seem to be anti Russia while China, South American and many Asian countries do not share that view. Now we can find cases on all sides of barbarism in war in all nations and countries..

Why is our view of Russia different to those of many other countries.. to anyone who suggests that Tom is poking fun then post elsewhere..

I think tom is pouring petrol onto a fire for his own amusement… and then trying to claim innocence

Tom… list the countries who voted against or abstained from the un resolution against Russia for the attack in Ukraine… because I think you are confusing the issue over which countries are condemning and which countries are sanctioning "

Fabio. You are confusing your question with the article published in the Guardian. It's worth a read but Tom never spoonfeeds the news

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?

The Guardian is a quality newspaper that usually try’s to report the facts and it prides itself on investigative journalism. The Guardian is owned by The Scott Trust, whose core purpose is to ensure the financial and editorial independence Unlike those papers owned by an Australian megalomaniac who has his own agenda.

I read a few papers to try and get a balanced view of the topics of the day. Try ET it may surprise you!

lolz!!! The Guardian, a quality paper??? It’s the commercial arm of the socialist worker. Utter garbage.

And yet you constantly believe articles in and link to the Daily Heil. You, a Jewish person who likes accusing people of being anti-semitic if they criticise Israel. You cite the Daily Heil which is owned by Lord Rothermere whose family publicly supported Oswald Mosely and the Black Shirts and the former Lord Rothermere wrote articles published in the Daily Heil singing their praises...weird!"

And you’re an Antisemite who is so far left and loves Corbyn.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"The far left leaning Guardian published a survey that shows that's it's mainly the so-called liberal democracies in Europe that portray Russia in a bad light while China, African and South American Countries do not have such an issue with Putin. What's going on here guys.. ?

The Guardian is a quality newspaper that usually try’s to report the facts and it prides itself on investigative journalism. The Guardian is owned by The Scott Trust, whose core purpose is to ensure the financial and editorial independence Unlike those papers owned by an Australian megalomaniac who has his own agenda.

I read a few papers to try and get a balanced view of the topics of the day. Try ET it may surprise you!

lolz!!! The Guardian, a quality paper??? It’s the commercial arm of the socialist worker. Utter garbage.

And yet you constantly believe articles in and link to the Daily Heil. You, a Jewish person who likes accusing people of being anti-semitic if they criticise Israel. You cite the Daily Heil which is owned by Lord Rothermere whose family publicly supported Oswald Mosely and the Black Shirts and the former Lord Rothermere wrote articles published in the Daily Heil singing their praises...weird!

And you’re an Antisemite who is so far left and loves Corbyn. "

On what basis are you:

A) Accusing me of being an antisemite?

B) Claiming I am far left?

C) Believing I love Corbyn?

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