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UK Defence Spending

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By *V-Alice OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

In the last 77 years, the Russians have become progressively more inept at warfare. They're so bad, now, that even NATO - with its poor track record this century - could beat them in a conflict restricted to conventional weapons.

So, does the UK actually need to increase defence spending beyond 2% of GDP?

I'd say no. A wiser move would be to cut down on wasting large chunks of the 2%.

Clearly, we don't know what threats we'll face in the future - but if China happens to be one of them - that's a war that can't be won, militarily; anymore than one against the USA could be won.

If we are going to spend more than 2%, where should the money come from?

Doing away with legal tax avoidance only gets you about £1.7bn - that's only about 21% of the cost of a new Trident submarine.

Maybe not writing off £15bn (according to the FT) in fraud might have helped?

Cutting back even further on HS2?

Not building eight unnecessary large nuclear power stations (modular makes more sense)?

Anyway - loads of ways to find the extra cash; even though we've had it demonstrated to us that, on the battlefield, at least, we don't really need it.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. INSATIABLE Wed 05 8pm HOT WIVES Sat 01

'In the last 77 years, the Russians have become progressively more inept at warfare. They're so bad, now, that even NATO - with its poor track record this century - could beat them in a conflict restricted to conventional weapons.'

Wild opinion? Or proven fact? Please point to the proven facts if so.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

[Removed by poster at 09/04/22 19:14:18]

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

I would not be surprised if Russia's nukes were fucked as well considering just shite their other shite they have been using.

60% failure rate of munitions and the poor state of vehicles tanks ext missing parts because of corruption.

Their forces have probably been ripped off for years with fake invoices for parts and stuff that does not exist.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

A strong defence ensures peace why do think other countries haven't sent troops to the Ukraine ? because they are frightened of inciting a nuclear attack.Thats what defence spending does.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. INSATIABLE Wed 05 8pm HOT WIVES Sat 01


"Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

"

'Over 18 months to the 1st March 2018, a total of 13 DSEI firms – including Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo, which all have factories in Scotland – collectively gave £128,500 to the All Party Parliamentary Group for the Armed Forces at Westminster, which treats MPs to dinner and breakfasts.

Of those MPs accepting hospitality from DSEI firms, 19 politicians were Tories, 5 were Labour and one was Lib-Dem.

Politicians who enjoyed free meals courtesy of the APPG for Armed Forces included Tory MP Bob Stewart who enjoyed 12 dinners and two breakfasts totalling £508.

Regarding foreign trips, Tory MP Alan Mak twice visited both Munich, Germany, and San Francisco in the USA, courtesy of donations from US arms multinational Lockheed Martin UK, who part-funded his four visits, costing £8551.

Tory MP Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for Transport, declared £4375 for trips to the US, Austria and Germany. The trips were part-funded by US firm Boeing Defence which makes Apache combat helicopters, B-52 Bombers and systems for long range missiles, among other weaponry.

At least 27 members of the House of Lords accepted free dinners from the APPG including Lord McAvoy, deputy speaker in the Lords and shadow spokesperson for Labour on both Scotland and Northern Ireland issues'

Not just the conservatives.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. INSATIABLE Wed 05 8pm HOT WIVES Sat 01

Defence lobbying is also connected to real jobs in MP's wards. It would be an MP in remiss to forget that - well, unless you are Comrade Jeremy Corbyn.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

'Over 18 months to the 1st March 2018, a total of 13 DSEI firms – including Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo, which all have factories in Scotland – collectively gave £128,500 to the All Party Parliamentary Group for the Armed Forces at Westminster, which treats MPs to dinner and breakfasts.

Of those MPs accepting hospitality from DSEI firms, 19 politicians were Tories, 5 were Labour and one was Lib-Dem.

Politicians who enjoyed free meals courtesy of the APPG for Armed Forces included Tory MP Bob Stewart who enjoyed 12 dinners and two breakfasts totalling £508.

Regarding foreign trips, Tory MP Alan Mak twice visited both Munich, Germany, and San Francisco in the USA, courtesy of donations from US arms multinational Lockheed Martin UK, who part-funded his four visits, costing £8551.

Tory MP Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for Transport, declared £4375 for trips to the US, Austria and Germany. The trips were part-funded by US firm Boeing Defence which makes Apache combat helicopters, B-52 Bombers and systems for long range missiles, among other weaponry.

At least 27 members of the House of Lords accepted free dinners from the APPG including Lord McAvoy, deputy speaker in the Lords and shadow spokesperson for Labour on both Scotland and Northern Ireland issues'

Not just the conservatives."

Indeed.

But the conservatives are in power, receive a lot more, and are the ones who decide on the defence budget.

To be honest, I don't care which party it is. They all blatantly serve those who donate.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

Lieutenant General Sir John Kiszely .... thankfully forced to resign when he got rumbled for scummy hypocrisy

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. INSATIABLE Wed 05 8pm HOT WIVES Sat 01


"Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

'Over 18 months to the 1st March 2018, a total of 13 DSEI firms – including Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo, which all have factories in Scotland – collectively gave £128,500 to the All Party Parliamentary Group for the Armed Forces at Westminster, which treats MPs to dinner and breakfasts.

Of those MPs accepting hospitality from DSEI firms, 19 politicians were Tories, 5 were Labour and one was Lib-Dem.

Politicians who enjoyed free meals courtesy of the APPG for Armed Forces included Tory MP Bob Stewart who enjoyed 12 dinners and two breakfasts totalling £508.

Regarding foreign trips, Tory MP Alan Mak twice visited both Munich, Germany, and San Francisco in the USA, courtesy of donations from US arms multinational Lockheed Martin UK, who part-funded his four visits, costing £8551.

Tory MP Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for Transport, declared £4375 for trips to the US, Austria and Germany. The trips were part-funded by US firm Boeing Defence which makes Apache combat helicopters, B-52 Bombers and systems for long range missiles, among other weaponry.

At least 27 members of the House of Lords accepted free dinners from the APPG including Lord McAvoy, deputy speaker in the Lords and shadow spokesperson for Labour on both Scotland and Northern Ireland issues'

Not just the conservatives.

Indeed.

But the conservatives are in power, receive a lot more, and are the ones who decide on the defence budget.

To be honest, I don't care which party it is. They all blatantly serve those who donate. "

But would you go for a loss of jobs to stop it?

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

'Over 18 months to the 1st March 2018, a total of 13 DSEI firms – including Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo, which all have factories in Scotland – collectively gave £128,500 to the All Party Parliamentary Group for the Armed Forces at Westminster, which treats MPs to dinner and breakfasts.

Of those MPs accepting hospitality from DSEI firms, 19 politicians were Tories, 5 were Labour and one was Lib-Dem.

Politicians who enjoyed free meals courtesy of the APPG for Armed Forces included Tory MP Bob Stewart who enjoyed 12 dinners and two breakfasts totalling £508.

Regarding foreign trips, Tory MP Alan Mak twice visited both Munich, Germany, and San Francisco in the USA, courtesy of donations from US arms multinational Lockheed Martin UK, who part-funded his four visits, costing £8551.

Tory MP Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for Transport, declared £4375 for trips to the US, Austria and Germany. The trips were part-funded by US firm Boeing Defence which makes Apache combat helicopters, B-52 Bombers and systems for long range missiles, among other weaponry.

At least 27 members of the House of Lords accepted free dinners from the APPG including Lord McAvoy, deputy speaker in the Lords and shadow spokesperson for Labour on both Scotland and Northern Ireland issues'

Not just the conservatives.

Indeed.

But the conservatives are in power, receive a lot more, and are the ones who decide on the defence budget.

To be honest, I don't care which party it is. They all blatantly serve those who donate.

But would you go for a loss of jobs to stop it?"

I would spend public money on something more useful, that also created jobs.

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By *illi3736Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Only a fool in the present climate would consider cutting the defence budget. I think 2% sounds on the low side if anything. The first job of any Government is to defend its people.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. INSATIABLE Wed 05 8pm HOT WIVES Sat 01


"Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

'Over 18 months to the 1st March 2018, a total of 13 DSEI firms – including Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo, which all have factories in Scotland – collectively gave £128,500 to the All Party Parliamentary Group for the Armed Forces at Westminster, which treats MPs to dinner and breakfasts.

Of those MPs accepting hospitality from DSEI firms, 19 politicians were Tories, 5 were Labour and one was Lib-Dem.

Politicians who enjoyed free meals courtesy of the APPG for Armed Forces included Tory MP Bob Stewart who enjoyed 12 dinners and two breakfasts totalling £508.

Regarding foreign trips, Tory MP Alan Mak twice visited both Munich, Germany, and San Francisco in the USA, courtesy of donations from US arms multinational Lockheed Martin UK, who part-funded his four visits, costing £8551.

Tory MP Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for Transport, declared £4375 for trips to the US, Austria and Germany. The trips were part-funded by US firm Boeing Defence which makes Apache combat helicopters, B-52 Bombers and systems for long range missiles, among other weaponry.

At least 27 members of the House of Lords accepted free dinners from the APPG including Lord McAvoy, deputy speaker in the Lords and shadow spokesperson for Labour on both Scotland and Northern Ireland issues'

Not just the conservatives.

Indeed.

But the conservatives are in power, receive a lot more, and are the ones who decide on the defence budget.

To be honest, I don't care which party it is. They all blatantly serve those who donate.

But would you go for a loss of jobs to stop it?

I would spend public money on something more useful, that also created jobs. "

Doesn't Ukraine in 2022 actually prove the point. That we still live in a World that needs policing by Weapons and Soldiers?

I feel that if there were no such thing as Nuclear weapons, we may well be at war against Russia right now.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Arms companies give a lot of money to the conservatives and to MPs.

I wonder if that's out of kindness, or if it's to make sure the government keeps the defence budget high.

'Over 18 months to the 1st March 2018, a total of 13 DSEI firms – including Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo, which all have factories in Scotland – collectively gave £128,500 to the All Party Parliamentary Group for the Armed Forces at Westminster, which treats MPs to dinner and breakfasts.

Of those MPs accepting hospitality from DSEI firms, 19 politicians were Tories, 5 were Labour and one was Lib-Dem.

Politicians who enjoyed free meals courtesy of the APPG for Armed Forces included Tory MP Bob Stewart who enjoyed 12 dinners and two breakfasts totalling £508.

Regarding foreign trips, Tory MP Alan Mak twice visited both Munich, Germany, and San Francisco in the USA, courtesy of donations from US arms multinational Lockheed Martin UK, who part-funded his four visits, costing £8551.

Tory MP Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for Transport, declared £4375 for trips to the US, Austria and Germany. The trips were part-funded by US firm Boeing Defence which makes Apache combat helicopters, B-52 Bombers and systems for long range missiles, among other weaponry.

At least 27 members of the House of Lords accepted free dinners from the APPG including Lord McAvoy, deputy speaker in the Lords and shadow spokesperson for Labour on both Scotland and Northern Ireland issues'

Not just the conservatives.

Indeed.

But the conservatives are in power, receive a lot more, and are the ones who decide on the defence budget.

To be honest, I don't care which party it is. They all blatantly serve those who donate.

But would you go for a loss of jobs to stop it?

I would spend public money on something more useful, that also created jobs.

Doesn't Ukraine in 2022 actually prove the point. That we still live in a World that needs policing by Weapons and Soldiers?

I feel that if there were no such thing as Nuclear weapons, we may well be at war against Russia right now.

"

I'm not saying that we should have no spending.

I just feel like there's a lot of wasted money when it comes to defence, and it appears that a lot of money goes to BAE etc for not that much of a return. I'm not saying their political donations are solely to blame. But I don't like the way the system works.

Right now, when people are seeing war again in Europe, it's easier to be sold the line that we need to give more money into the defence budget. So let's see what the government does.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

In case we need to defend against a worthy foe, then yes the budget needs to be bulked up a bit.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby


"'In the last 77 years, the Russians have become progressively more inept at warfare. They're so bad, now, that even NATO - with its poor track record this century - could beat them in a conflict restricted to conventional weapons.'

Wild opinion? Or proven fact? Please point to the proven facts if so. "
there soldiers don’t want to fight there equipment is dated broken and old there basically useless wach the news ffs

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham


"'In the last 77 years, the Russians have become progressively more inept at warfare. They're so bad, now, that even NATO - with its poor track record this century - could beat them in a conflict restricted to conventional weapons.'

Wild opinion? Or proven fact? Please point to the proven facts if so. there soldiers don’t want to fight there equipment is dated broken and old there basically useless wach the news ffs "

The stuff maybe useless, but it is doing a good job at wrecking the place.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. INSATIABLE Wed 05 8pm HOT WIVES Sat 01


"'In the last 77 years, the Russians have become progressively more inept at warfare. They're so bad, now, that even NATO - with its poor track record this century - could beat them in a conflict restricted to conventional weapons.'

Wild opinion? Or proven fact? Please point to the proven facts if so. there soldiers don’t want to fight there equipment is dated broken and old there basically useless wach the news ffs "

Yea they are doing so badly at killing Ukrainians they should just go home and pretend it never happened. Couple of road sweepers and all will be good

Back to work on Monday.

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By *ustintime69Man
over a year ago

london

Defence spending gone wrong;

The Warrior light armoured vehicle that is too loud and vibrates so much that it makes the occupants deaf and makes them want to vomit!

The type 43 destroyer that cannot run at full speed because it’s engines overheat!

The Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier that was commissioned and brought into service before the American designed aircraft it was supposed to have been designed for were even remotely capable of being operational!

Waste waste and more waste!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Defence spending gone wrong;

The Warrior light armoured vehicle that is too loud and vibrates so much that it makes the occupants deaf and makes them want to vomit!

The type 43 destroyer that cannot run at full speed because it’s engines overheat!

The Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier that was commissioned and brought into service before the American designed aircraft it was supposed to have been designed for were even remotely capable of being operational!

Waste waste and more waste!"

BAE made a lot of money though. That's the main aim.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Defence spending gone wrong;

The Warrior light armoured vehicle that is too loud and vibrates so much that it makes the occupants deaf and makes them want to vomit!

The type 43 destroyer that cannot run at full speed because it’s engines overheat!

The Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier that was commissioned and brought into service before the American designed aircraft it was supposed to have been designed for were even remotely capable of being operational!

Waste waste and more waste!"

The Warrior is, and was, a very capable vehicle. Its the new Ajax thats causing the problems.

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By *ustintime69Man
over a year ago

london


"Defence spending gone wrong;

The Warrior light armoured vehicle that is too loud and vibrates so much that it makes the occupants deaf and makes them want to vomit!

The type 43 destroyer that cannot run at full speed because it’s engines overheat!

The Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier that was commissioned and brought into service before the American designed aircraft it was supposed to have been designed for were even remotely capable of being operational!

Waste waste and more waste!

The Warrior is, and was, a very capable vehicle. Its the new Ajax thats causing the problems. "

Yes you are right Ajax it is

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

[Removed by poster at 12/04/22 22:18:22]

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

We decommissioned AWAX in 2019, no replacement for long rang airborne radar, radar stations such as Filingdales are static, we closed airfields concentrating all our fighter aircraft into few locations, nearly all our Navy operate from Portsmouth, Trident operates from the Clyde.

About 100 cruise missles would completely screw our defences allowing for 50% not getting through.

Have you seen anti-aircraft missles located on the East Coast and around nuclear power stations.

No public early warning systems, communication systems reliance on private companies. Remember the Manchester bunker fire that knocked out phones and Internet for 3 weeks?

Did they not learn anything from the Cold War?

Even after 9/11, books were sent out as to how to respond to an attack. On the cusp of WW3, what information is the public being given? Nothing.

It's a shit-show - worth a watch

https://youtu.be/WNRUP-T01Ig

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

Correction:

AWAX retirement late 2021.

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By *V-Alice OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr


"'In the last 77 years, the Russians have become progressively more inept at warfare. They're so bad, now, that even NATO - with its poor track record this century - could beat them in a conflict restricted to conventional weapons.'

Wild opinion? Or proven fact? Please point to the proven facts if so. "

Proven fact. They were victorious over Nazi Germany. They didn't defeat the Mujahedin. They had to have two bites at the cherry against Chechnya - and, so far, they're failing in Ukraine. Although, I'll grant you, they got away with Crimea because there was no real warfare.

As for not actually addressing how much defence spending we need, in your reply; doesn't surprise me. Has Costa got his hand up your back working you? LOL

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