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The west's response to Russian aggressi

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By *mateur100 OP   Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

Can anyone explain why the accepted view is to apply sanctions bit by bit?

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By *mateur100 OP   Man
over a year ago

nr faversham


"Can anyone explain why the accepted view is to apply sanctions bit by bit? "

None of the usual suspects willing to respond???

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By *6travellerMan
over a year ago

Tayside, Midlands and Chester

I have not got a clue why. The only thing I know is 1 sanctions do not work, 2 the super rich will eventually get access to their money and properties. The only thing any of this achieves is the people (general population) suffer. Look at North Korea, Sanctioned for the last 70 years and it is still there. The elite suffer not a jot and don’t care.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

I've explained on another thread.

And I believe these sanctions are going to go deeper and harder than any sanctions we have ever seen in history. I would not be surprised if the freezing of assets and accounts goes one stage further and includes the seizure and complete stripping of said accounts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

West is afraid to escalate.

West has been caught with pants down at the speed which Russia has progressed in last 24h

Sanctions are more about ‘being seen’ to do something. Won’t goo far enough as “we” need their gas.

Poor Ukraine will be left to it. USSR Mk II is on the up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In this case, they likely wanna avoid a situation where US troops and Russian troops are shooting at each other. That could lead to WW3.

When it comes to sanctions in general, I'm guessing it's cheaper and easier than an actual war. + there's the major benefit that none of your own troops get chucked into a warzone to die.

In this case, our tentative sanctions do feel rather like a stable door and horse situation. It's made even worse since our government seems to be awash with Russian money and connections. So there may be a teeny tiny conflict of interest when it comes to our response...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess it depends how you look at it.

If you're less cynical:

If you impose maximum sanctions before the aggressor has fully invaded etc then where is there to escalate to? They may as well go all in and fully invade if maximum sanctions are imposed. Its a way of holding some back.

If you're more cynical:

The Tories have been bankrolled by lots of Russian oligarchs for well over a decade. Some of their dodgy chums stand to lose a lot of money if sanctions are imposed across the board. Better to impose on a limited scope of people, allow their dodgy chums to move their moneys around, make their assets more liquid etc. They are up to their necks in dodgy oligarch cash and the last thing they want is lots of questions about that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I guess it depends how you look at it.

If you're less cynical:

If you impose maximum sanctions before the aggressor has fully invaded etc then where is there to escalate to? They may as well go all in and fully invade if maximum sanctions are imposed. Its a way of holding some back.

If you're more cynical:

The Tories have been bankrolled by lots of Russian oligarchs for well over a decade. Some of their dodgy chums stand to lose a lot of money if sanctions are imposed across the board. Better to impose on a limited scope of people, allow their dodgy chums to move their moneys around, make their assets more liquid etc. They are up to their necks in dodgy oligarch cash and the last thing they want is lots of questions about that."

There's a huge irony here. I bet Johnson's over the moon that Russia is dominating the news as that knocks Partygate off the news. But Russia's actions also remind people that Johnson and the Tories seem v compromised when it comes to Russia.

There's the Russian money the Tories took. Johnson's links to the son of a former KGB officer. The fact Johnson stuck that guy in the House of Lords. Also the Russians who bought access to our government. The Russia report that was sat on for ages, then it turned out there hadn't really even been an investigation into Russian intereference because nobody wanted to know how deep the rot goes...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Sanctions have to be legally watertight, and that takes a little while to implement.

With what is proposed worldwide, it will take 6 weeks before the Russian economy starts to hurt. Putin won't feel it but his citizens will, and thats what could make the difference.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr


"Sanctions have to be legally watertight, and that takes a little while to implement.

With what is proposed worldwide, it will take 6 weeks before the Russian economy starts to hurt. Putin won't feel it but his citizens will, and thats what could make the difference. "

It's highly unlikely to. I know you said could - but it hasn't toppled dictators in Cuba, North Korea or Iran.

I'd be happy for it to work on Putin but it seems like holding your breath on it would be futile.

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

Sanctioning the wealthy is a truly pointless sanction. Restricting their movement is more effective. You can have millions of roubles, but if you have nothing to spend them on in the country in which they are confined it doesn't matter how rich they are. Putins and Lavrovs response clearly indicated this today, not as if they had a nice little holiday planned in the tropics, so what wealth do they need.

Sanctions from the ground up on those on the periphery that support Putin like China will have a good effect. Russia manufactures little, China manufactures huge amounts and sells to the world, a hit on Chinese output will soon have them seeing they are backing the wrong horse. A China / Russia trade agreement is flawed. China can access huge energy resources, could manufacture lots but selling it to a confined market for set prices has failure written all over it.

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By *emma HoldenTV/TS
over a year ago

Ramsey

This is where cancel culture can come to be positive. Cancel Russia. What company or sports team or organisation wants to be associated with Russia now? The uproar from customers & investors should be huge going forward. There should be no more F1 ever in Russia, let the tracks rot. No internatonal football tournaments for 20 years. No Olympics or athletics. The Russian population will see Putin for the embarrassment he is & turn against him en masse. He's finished.

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge


"Sanctions have to be legally watertight, and that takes a little while to implement.

With what is proposed worldwide, it will take 6 weeks before the Russian economy starts to hurt. Putin won't feel it but his citizens will, and thats what could make the difference.

It's highly unlikely to. I know you said could - but it hasn't toppled dictators in Cuba, North Korea or Iran.

I'd be happy for it to work on Putin but it seems like holding your breath on it would be futile."

Agree, they've never worked and as the corrupted and wealthy find a work around, it's the country's people that suffer the most, causing resentment which makes it easier to stir hatred.

Burning the American flag videos in Iran always tickles me..

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr


"Sanctioning the wealthy is a truly pointless sanction. Restricting their movement is more effective. You can have millions of roubles, but if you have nothing to spend them on in the country in which they are confined it doesn't matter how rich they are. Putins and Lavrovs response clearly indicated this today, not as if they had a nice little holiday planned in the tropics, so what wealth do they need.

Sanctions from the ground up on those on the periphery that support Putin like China will have a good effect. Russia manufactures little, China manufactures huge amounts and sells to the world, a hit on Chinese output will soon have them seeing they are backing the wrong horse. A China / Russia trade agreement is flawed. China can access huge energy resources, could manufacture lots but selling it to a confined market for set prices has failure written all over it. "

Do you remember, not so long ago, when Trump tried sanctions on China?

A brief and inconclusive "trade war" that didn't alter China's perspective one iota; nor help a single Uyghur.

In any case, for what you suggest to be effective, you'd have to live in a world where people care more about human life than they do about money and property; particularly the wealthy.

In case you haven't noticed - like the rest of us, you don't.

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